NationStates Jolt Archive

wait a minute...are there any?

Pagans are awesome. And sure, there are plenty. Do you think they like the discrimination against them by the Christian Chruch? And they have the same concerns as the rest of humanity, so that is terrible stereotyping on your part.

Pagans are awesome. And sure, there are plenty. Do you think they like the discrimination against them by the Christian Chruch? And they have the same concerns as the rest of humanity, so that is terrible stereotyping on your part.

Dude, in case you haven't realized it, I'm pagan myself. I made this thread in an attempt to be a smartass (looks like I kinda failed) and to figure out whether I'm alone here or not.

Oh, I'm aware that you're just joking around. But I wanted to nip this in the bud, since I hold a special place in my heart for pagans, and hate hearing what some Christians say about them.

Oh, I'm aware that you're just joking around. But I wanted to nip this in the bud, since I hold a special place in my heart for pagans, and hate hearing what some Christians say about them.

At least someone appreciates us. Thank you ^_^

We (Wiccans) really are peaceful people. All these people like to say we're practicing the dark arts, when in reality, our one MAJOR rule is completely against that...and it resembles the Hippocratic oath...lovely way of saying "bite me, bitch" to any obnoxious Christian doctors, eh?

Hey hey hey... I'm a Christian, and I still like Pagans.

wait a minute...are there any?

Plenty! Go check out the Pagan Aid Network. :)

Wiccans and Pagans are worshippers of devils!

Wiccans and Pagans are worshippers of devils!
How can I worship something I don't believe in? We don't believe in a devil of any sort. We believe that there is positive and negative in everything, and that balances out. Now you, little mister Christian, can be a devil worshipper. You believe in one.

How can I worship something I don't believe in? We don't believe in a devil of any sort. We believe that there is positive and negative in everything, and that balances out. Now you, little mister Christian, can be a devil worshipper. You believe in one.
No, all the gods of the pagans are devils.

Wiccans and Pagans are worshippers of devils!

1] Wiccans are Pagans, hence, there is no reason to separate the two. Not all Pagans are Wiccan, but all Wiccans are Pagans.

2] Even if they did worship devils, they have every right to.

No, all the gods of the pagans are devils.

How so? :rolleyes:

1] Wiccans are Pagans, hence, there is no reason to separate the two. Not all Pagans are Wiccan, but all Wiccans are Pagans.

2] Even if they did worship devils, they have every right to.

multiple thumbs up, dude.

How so? :rolleyes:
Psalm xcvV

Inform me about pagan beliefs, I find myself horribly uninformed.

multiple thumbs up, dude.

Thanks. Well ... I have spent the better part of 12 years defending Pagans - being that I'm a Caddo Indian and all (Yeah, that's right, a Jewish Muslim American Indian ... wanna fight about it?) ... have even written several articles for Witchvox (oooooh).

I decided a while ago that arguing the semantics of dieties vs. demons is a lost cause because it is often impossible for someone weak in their faith to show their own faith's truth without denegrating others.

Hence, I simply strive to let people know that it doesn't matter what people worship or how they do it cuz, frankly, it's none of your damn business.

Dude, pagans are just trying to figure out the same answers that Christians and other mainstream religions are trying to find out. They have a different perspective on how to find that truth. It does no good to call them evil and devil worshippers because they aren't.

No, all the gods of the pagans are devils.

How many devils are there?

Psalm xcvV

I'm assuming that's a typo, because I've never seen Roman numerals corrupted like that. (Wow, you're using a numerical system invented by PAGANS!!)

Inform me about pagan beliefs, I find myself horribly uninformed.

Wow ... ermmm ... there are hundreds of different Pagan paths ... to cover them all would take a lifetime. Can you be more specific?

Psalm xcvV

Ok who taught you the Roman numeral system? xcvV doesn't mean anything.

XC = 90

V = 5

XCV ~= 95 in a childish way

XCVV != anything

The only thing I can deduce is you're trying to write Psalm 95:5 ... "quoniam omnes dii gentium daemonia at vero Dominus caelos fecit" (Vulgate) or "The sea is his, and he made it: and his hands formed the dry land." (KJV) or in Hebrew "‏אֲשֶׁר־לֹ֣ו הַ֭יָּם וְה֣וּא עָשָׂ֑הוּ וְ֝יַבֶּ֗שֶׁת יָדָ֥יו יָצָֽרו"

Nothing there about devils and Pagans. Since Wiccans don't believe in a Creator entity, but rather a pervasive natural force, what difference does it make if they represent that force by their idols of the Pentacle/Triple Crescent or if you represent it by your idols of some skinny dude nailed to wood?

Ok who taught you the Roman numeral system? xcvV doesn't mean anything.

XC = 90

V = 5

XCV ~= 95 in a childish way

XCVV != anything


Are some people this ignorant they cannot even figure out basic Bible concordance with Roman numerals? :rolleyes:

Psalm 95:5
For all the gods of the Gentiles are devils...

Are some people this ignorant they cannot even figure out basic Bible concordance with Roman numerals? :rolleyes:

Psalm 95:5
For all the gods of the Gentiles are devils...

What fascinates me even more is that you ignored the Hebrew.

1] The Psalms are Jewish poems, written by the Jewish King David. In Tanakh, the Tehillim (psalm) 95 contains 11 verses. In the Vulgate (Catholic Bible), it contains 13 for some reason, but then in the KJV, back to 11 lines. Methinks a Pope added some lines.

2] YOU are a Gentile and if you believe Psalm 95:5 as written in the Vulgate to be true, then YOUR god is a devil. However, as you've written it above, that line does not exist in Psalm 95.

3] I did figure it out, you cut off the bottom part of my post. I agree with AFS, though. Your use of a Pagan numbering system is amusing.

Are some people this ignorant they cannot even figure out basic Bible concordance with Roman numerals? :rolleyes:

Psalm 95:5
For all the gods of the Gentiles are devils...

Psalms 95:5 The sea is his, and he made it: and his hands formed the dry land.

This was taken from this website: http://cubits.org/walk/Psalms/95/av/
Please re-read Psalms again and tell me where you got that. :confused:

But then you are reading from the Douay-Rheims Bible, so I give you credit for saying it for a Catholic. However, read verse 4: 4 For the Lord is great, and exceedingly to be praised: he is to be feared above all gods

Tell me.. does that not seem contradictory as it recognizes the existence of other gods?

Psalms 95:5 The sea is his, and he made it: and his hands formed the dry land.

This was taken from this website: http://cubits.org/walk/Psalms/95/av/
Please re-read Psalms again and tell me where you got that. :confused:

It says that in the Vulgate ... 95:5 "quoniam omnes dii gentium daemonia at vero Dominus caelos fecit" ... but it doesn't exist in any other version of the Tehillim (psalms), which leads me to believe a Pope threw it in for some odd reason.

Psalms 95:5 The sea is his, and he made it: and his hands formed the dry land.

This was taken from this website: http://cubits.org/walk/Psalms/95/av/
Please re-read Psalms again and tell me where you got that. :confused:
:rolleyes:
Psalm xcvV (http://www.scriptours.com/bible/bible.cgi?oldbook=21&book=21&chapter=95&x=0&y=0&reference=Psalm+95%3A5#95_5)
1 A canticle for David himself, when the house was built after the captivity. Sing ye to the Lord a new canticle: sing to the Lord, all the earth.

2 Sing ye to the Lord and bless his name: shew forth his salvation from day to day.

3 Declare his glory among the Gentiles: his wonders among all people.

4 For the Lord is great, and exceedingly to be praised: he is to be feared above all gods.

5 For all the gods of the Gentiles are devils: but the Lord made the heavens.

6 Praise and beauty are before him: holiness and majesty in his sanctuary.

7 Bring ye to the Lord, O ye kindreds of the Gentiles, bring ye to the Lord glory and honour:

8 Bring to the Lord glory unto his name. Bring up sacrifices, and come into his courts:

9 Adore ye the Lord in his holy court. Let all the earth be moved at his presence.

10 Say ye among the Gentiles, the Lord hath reigned. For he hath corrected the world, which shall not be moved: he will judge the people with justice.

11 Let the heavens rejoice, and let the earth be glad, let the sea be moved, and the fulness thereof:

12 The fields and all things that are in them shall be joyful. Then shall all the trees of the woods rejoice

13 before the face of the Lord, because he cometh: because he cometh to judge the earth. He shall judge the world with justice, and the people with his truth.

:rolleyes:
Psalm xcvV (http://www.scriptours.com/bible/bible.cgi?oldbook=21&book=21&chapter=95&x=0&y=0&reference=Psalm+95%3A5#95_5)
1 A canticle for David himself, when the house was built after the captivity. Sing ye to the Lord a new canticle: sing to the Lord, all the earth.

2 Sing ye to the Lord and bless his name: shew forth his salvation from day to day.

3 Declare his glory among the Gentiles: his wonders among all people.

4 For the Lord is great, and exceedingly to be praised: he is to be feared above all gods.

5 For all the gods of the Gentiles are devils: but the Lord made the heavens.

6 Praise and beauty are before him: holiness and majesty in his sanctuary.

7 Bring ye to the Lord, O ye kindreds of the Gentiles, bring ye to the Lord glory and honour:

8 Bring to the Lord glory unto his name. Bring up sacrifices, and come into his courts:

9 Adore ye the Lord in his holy court. Let all the earth be moved at his presence.

10 Say ye among the Gentiles, the Lord hath reigned. For he hath corrected the world, which shall not be moved: he will judge the people with justice.

11 Let the heavens rejoice, and let the earth be glad, let the sea be moved, and the fulness thereof:

12 The fields and all things that are in them shall be joyful. Then shall all the trees of the woods rejoice

13 before the face of the Lord, because he cometh: because he cometh to judge the earth. He shall judge the world with justice, and the people with his truth.


I got that.. please go back to my previous post, as I did correct myself

Define disgruntled and I'll let you call me that.
Although I prefer the title Polytheist to Pagan, unless Pagan will get me into more fights with ignorant people.. then I'll use that.
All mean the same thing anyway. (I'm aware Pagan is more general.)

:rolleyes:


Original Hebrew translation by the JPS of Tehillim 95:

95:1 O come, let us sing unto the Lord; let us shout for joy to the Rock of our salvation.
95:2 Let us come before His presence with thanksgiving, let us shout for joy unto Him with psalms.
95:3 For the Lord is a great God, and a great King above all gods;
95:4 In whose hand are the depths of the earth; the heights of the mountains are His also.
95:5 The sea is His, and He made it; and His hands formed the dry land.
95:6 O come, let us bow down and bend the knee; let us kneel before the Lord our Maker;
95:7 For He is our God, and we are the people of His pasture, and the flock of His hand. To-day, if ye would but hearken to His voice!
95:8 'Harden not your heart, as at Meribah, as in the day of Massah in the wilderness;
95:9 When your fathers tried Me, proved Me, even though they saw My work.
95:10 For forty years was I wearied with that generation, and said: It is a people that do err in their heart, and they have not known My ways;
95:11 Wherefore I swore in My wrath, that they should not enter into My rest.'

Care to explain why you've got additional lines, Gentile? Or will you just keep ignoring the truth ... just like the troll you are?

Define disgruntled and I'll let you call me that.
Although I prefer the title Polytheist to Pagan, unless Pagan will get me into more fights with ignorant people.. then I'll use that.
All mean the same thing anyway. (I'm aware Pagan is more general.)

Actually, Polytheist is more general nowadays

Original Hebrew translation by the JPS of Tehillim 95:

95:1 O come, let us sing unto the Lord; let us shout for joy to the Rock of our salvation.
95:2 Let us come before His presence with thanksgiving, let us shout for joy unto Him with psalms.
95:3 For the Lord is a great God, and a great King above all gods;
95:4 In whose hand are the depths of the earth; the heights of the mountains are His also.
95:5 The sea is His, and He made it; and His hands formed the dry land.
95:6 O come, let us bow down and bend the knee; let us kneel before the Lord our Maker;
95:7 For He is our God, and we are the people of His pasture, and the flock of His hand. To-day, if ye would but hearken to His voice!
95:8 'Harden not your heart, as at Meribah, as in the day of Massah in the wilderness;
95:9 When your fathers tried Me, proved Me, even though they saw My work.
95:10 For forty years was I wearied with that generation, and said: It is a people that do err in their heart, and they have not known My ways;
95:11 Wherefore I swore in My wrath, that they should not enter into My rest.'

Care to explain why you've got additional lines, Gentile? Or will you just keep ignoring the truth ... just like the troll you are?

I like you so I'm not complaining but he is going from a different version of the Bible. So I guess that explains his point of view....

:rolleyes:
Psalm xcvV (http://www.scriptours.com/bible/bible.cgi?oldbook=21&book=21&chapter=95&x=0&y=0&reference=Psalm+95%3A5#95_5)
<snippety snip>
5 For all the gods of the Gentiles are devils: but the Lord made the heavens.

In any other source than the Vulgate, that verse is Psalm 96:5: kiykol-'elohêy hâ`ammiym 'eliyliym vayhvh shâmayim `âsâh--For all the gods of the peoples are things of nought; but the Lord made the heavens.

And it certainly appears to have been mutilated for bias in the Latin.

Original Hebrew translation by the JPS of Tehillim 95:

I'm not even going to entertain a JEWISH translation! :rolleyes:

The giant floating tampon of doom forsees all of you heathens being burnt into Campbell's Chunky Noodle soup upon your death for ot paying homage to the all smelling ear of Rubic's Cube.

For as it says in Duran Duran 4:20

"Man on toilet seat is high on pot."

I'm not even going to entertain a JEWISH translation! :rolleyes:Mighty white of you.

Oh NOW I get it ... you're not reading Psalm 95 .... you're reading Psalm 96!

You're off by an entire Psalm! The whole Vulgate is!

What kind of numbskull put together that thing? Yeesh ... even the Greek Septaguanti got it right. Oy gevalt ...

Oh NOW I get it ... you're not reading Psalm 95 .... you're reading Psalm 96!

You're off by an entire Psalm! The whole Vulgate is!

What kind of numbskull put together that thing? Yeesh ... even the Greek Septaguanti got it right. Oy gevalt ...
The Vulgate and Douay-Rheims are correct. Yours is heretical and incorrect.

I'm not even going to entertain a JEWISH translation! :rolleyes:


Obviously, you've got some sort of complex, thinking that your belief system is superior to all others just because it teaches you so. Doesn't your belief system also teach you to love others? Apparently not, as you've shown little tolerance and compassion for those who disagree with your beliefs.

For as it says in Duran Duran 4:20

"Man on toilet seat is high on pot."

Oops! That was Fascist Thoughts #42!

Duran Duran 4:20 says

"And the Christian and the Jew,
the pagan, the Hindu, your momma,
and your little yippy dog too,
they's all going to hell...
foo'"

I'm not even going to entertain a JEWISH translation! :rolleyes:

It's a Jewish text, moron. A Jew wrote it. Not only a Jew, but David, a *legitamite* King of the Jews.

Here ...

95:1 ‏לְ֭כוּ נְרַנְּנָ֣ה לַיהוָ֑ה נָ֝רִ֗יעָה לְצ֣וּר יִשְׁעֵֽנוּ׃

‎95:2 ‏נְקַדְּמָ֣ה פָנָ֣יו בְּתֹודָ֑ה בִּ֝זְמִרֹ֗ות נָרִ֥יעַֽ לֹֽו׃

‎95:3 ‏כִּ֤י אֵ֣ל גָּדֹ֣ול יְהוָ֑ה וּמֶ֥לֶךְ גָּ֝דֹ֗ול עַל־כָּל־אֱלֹהִֽים׃

‎95:4 ‏אֲשֶׁ֣ר בְּ֭יָדֹו מֶחְקְרֵי־אָ֑רֶץ וְתֹועֲפֹ֖ות הָרִ֣ים לֹֽו׃

‎95:5 ‏אֲשֶׁר־לֹ֣ו הַ֭יָּם וְה֣וּא עָשָׂ֑הוּ וְ֝יַבֶּ֗שֶׁת יָדָ֥יו יָצָֽרוּ׃

‎95:6 ‏בֹּ֭אוּ נִשְׁתַּחֲוֶ֣ה וְנִכְרָ֑עָה נִ֝בְרְכָ֗ה לִֽפְנֵי־יְהוָ֥ה עֹשֵֽׂנוּ׃

‎95:7 ‏כִּ֘י ה֤וּא אֱלֹהֵ֗ינוּ וַאֲנַ֤חְנוּ עַ֣ם מַ֭רְעִיתֹו וְצֹ֣אן יָדֹ֑ו הַ֝יֹּ֗ום אִֽם־בְּקֹלֹ֥ו תִשְׁמָֽעוּ׃

‎95:8 ‏אַל־תַּקְשׁ֣וּ לְ֭בַבְכֶם כִּמְרִיבָ֑ה כְּיֹ֥ום מַ֝סָּ֗ה בַּמִּדְבָּֽר׃

‎95:9 ‏אֲשֶׁ֣ר נִ֭סּוּנִי אֲבֹותֵיכֶ֑ם בְּ֝חָנ֗וּנִי גַּם־רָא֥וּ פָעֳלִֽי׃

‎95:10 ‏אַרְבָּ֘עִ֤ים שָׁנָ֨ה׀ אָ֘ק֤וּט בְּדֹ֗ור וָאֹמַ֗ר עַ֤ם תֹּעֵ֣י לֵבָ֣ב הֵ֑ם וְ֝הֵ֗ם לֹא־יָדְע֥וּ דְרָכָֽי׃

‎95:11 ‏אֲשֶׁר־נִשְׁבַּ֥עְתִּי בְאַפִּ֑י אִם־יְ֝בֹא֗וּן אֶל־מְנוּחָתִֽי׃

Happy? Learn Hebrew. Jesus didn't speak Latin. Neither did David. Neither did God.

The Vulgate and Douay-Rheims are correct. Yours is heretical and incorrect.

You are a troll.

Obviously, you've got some sort of complex, thinking that your belief system is superior to all others just because it teaches you so. Doesn't your belief system also teach you to love others? Apparently not, as you've shown little tolerance and compassion for those who disagree with your beliefs.
How would it be loving to lie to Jews that they are saved?

The Vulgate and Douay-Rheims are correct. Yours is heretical and incorrect.Ahahahahahaha! That's the best laugh I've had all night.

Actually, Polytheist is more general nowadays

I've found Paganto be more general as it can refer to people with no diety, many, or a single one.
Polytheist simply means multiple gods.

Happy? Learn Hebrew. Jesus didn't speak Latin. Neither did David. Neither did God.

Hey. Just cause he's a dumbass troll, doesn't mean you have to blow a fuse and go all "chosen people" with that egotistical crap.

"God" doesn't speak Hebrew, or Latin.

We all know he speaks Japanese, with a Latino lisp.

Ahahahahahaha! That's the best laugh I've had all night.
Why is it so funny?

Are some people this ignorant they cannot even figure out basic Bible concordance with Roman numerals? :rolleyes:

Psalm 95:5
For all the gods of the Gentiles are devils...

Bible-thumping, Christian Fundamentialist whackjob!

You're the type that takes the Bible way too seriously. You take it word for word. You can't do that-it wasn't ment to be taken word for word in the first place. On top of that, you also have the arrogence to believe that your particular sect of Christianity is somehow more right or better than the others.

I am disgusted by your ignorance. As an Episcopalian, I believe I speak for the majority of the Christian faith in general in saying that we do not profess followers of other faiths, however different they may be from ours, to be in any way less worthy before God or to be worshippers of Satan (except for those psychotic nutcases who are throwing their souls away in the Church of Satan, which does exist, by the way-I checked out their website and almost vomited).

As long as you live a long and virtuous life (and I say virtuous in a secular sense, and this is coming from me-I'm not speaking for the Church), you will find God in your own way, and in the end, isn't that really all that matters?

Bible-thumping, Christian Fundamentialist whackjob!

You're the type that takes the Bible way too seriously. You take it word for word. You can't do that-it wasn't ment to be taken word for word in the first place. On top of that, you also have the arrogence to believe that your particular sect of Christianity is somehow more right or better than the others.

I am disgusted by your ignorance. As an Episcopalian, I believe I speak for the majority of the Christian faith in general in saying that we do not profess followers of other faiths, however different they may be from ours, to be in any way less worthy before God or to be worshippers of Satan (except for those psychotic nutcases who are throwing their souls away in the Church of Satan, which does exist, by the way-I checked out their website and almost vomited).

As long as you live a long and virtuous life (and I say virtuous in a secular sense, and this is coming from me-I'm not speaking for the Church), you will find God in your own way, and in the end, isn't that really all that matters?

You mean you speak for the Episcoplian faith.

We all know he speaks Japanese, with a Latino lisp.

That was a lisp? I thought it was because of the toothpick in the corner of his mouth!

Hey. Just cause he's a dumbass troll, doesn't mean you have to blow a fuse and go all "chosen people" with that egotistical crap.

"God" doesn't speak Hebrew, or Latin.

We all know he speaks Japanese, with a Latino lisp.

a Latino lisp.. Damn.. i though god was homosexual this whole time.. after all.. he created man AND woman in his likeness......

You mean you speak for the Episcoplian faith.

You don't speak for any faith. Well ... wait a minute ... is "useless troll nutjob" a faith?

You don't speak for any faith. Well ... wait a minute ... is "useless troll nutjob" a faith?
No, the Christian Faith.

It's a Jewish text, moron. A Jew wrote it. Not only a Jew, but David, a *legitamite* King of the Jews.

Here ...

95:1 ‏לְ֭כוּ נְרַנְּנָ֣ה לַיהוָ֑ה נָ֝רִ֗יעָה לְצ֣וּר יִשְׁעֵֽנוּ׃

‎95:2 ‏נְקַדְּמָ֣ה פָנָ֣יו בְּתֹודָ֑ה בִּ֝זְמִרֹ֗ות נָרִ֥יעַֽ לֹֽו׃

‎95:3 ‏כִּ֤י אֵ֣ל גָּדֹ֣ול יְהוָ֑ה וּמֶ֥לֶךְ גָּ֝דֹ֗ול עַל־כָּל־אֱלֹהִֽים׃

‎95:4 ‏אֲשֶׁ֣ר בְּ֭יָדֹו מֶחְקְרֵי־אָ֑רֶץ וְתֹועֲפֹ֖ות הָרִ֣ים לֹֽו׃

‎95:5 ‏אֲשֶׁר־לֹ֣ו הַ֭יָּם וְה֣וּא עָשָׂ֑הוּ וְ֝יַבֶּ֗שֶׁת יָדָ֥יו יָצָֽרוּ׃

‎95:6 ‏בֹּ֭אוּ נִשְׁתַּחֲוֶ֣ה וְנִכְרָ֑עָה נִ֝בְרְכָ֗ה לִֽפְנֵי־יְהוָ֥ה עֹשֵֽׂנוּ׃

‎95:7 ‏כִּ֘י ה֤וּא אֱלֹהֵ֗ינוּ וַאֲנַ֤חְנוּ עַ֣ם מַ֭רְעִיתֹו וְצֹ֣אן יָדֹ֑ו הַ֝יֹּ֗ום אִֽם־בְּקֹלֹ֥ו תִשְׁמָֽעוּ׃

‎95:8 ‏אַל־תַּקְשׁ֣וּ לְ֭בַבְכֶם כִּמְרִיבָ֑ה כְּיֹ֥ום מַ֝סָּ֗ה בַּמִּדְבָּֽר׃

‎95:9 ‏אֲשֶׁ֣ר נִ֭סּוּנִי אֲבֹותֵיכֶ֑ם בְּ֝חָנ֗וּנִי גַּם־רָא֥וּ פָעֳלִֽי׃

‎95:10 ‏אַרְבָּ֘עִ֤ים שָׁנָ֨ה׀ אָ֘ק֤וּט בְּדֹ֗ור וָאֹמַ֗ר עַ֤ם תֹּעֵ֣י לֵבָ֣ב הֵ֑ם וְ֝הֵ֗ם לֹא־יָדְע֥וּ דְרָכָֽי׃

‎95:11 ‏אֲשֶׁר־נִשְׁבַּ֥עְתִּי בְאַפִּ֑י אִם־יְ֝בֹא֗וּן אֶל־מְנוּחָתִֽי׃

Happy? Learn Hebrew. Jesus didn't speak Latin. Neither did David. Neither did God.


I bet God can speak latin if he wants.

You mean you speak for the Episcoplian faith.

No, I mean the Episcopalian faith. Look it up.

Anyways, if you have to resort to citing spelling errors, it shows incompetence on your part.

Im a wiccan

some one said something about Pagan worshiping devils. Well Consider the Following
1. Pagans and Wiccans dont believe in Devil; You do
2. If you believe in the Devil doesnt that go against the frist commandment that says there is only one God; even if the Devil is an Anti-Deity
3. If Christians believe there is ONE god why worship Jesus and the Holy Spirit. If you aren't a Unitarian or Jew your probably a Pagan by definition

I bet God can speak latin if he wants.

We all know god(s) speak Sumerian.
Afterall, if god(s) created humans, then wouldn't it/he/she speak the language of the earliest civilization? Predating even the Jews by oh say... 2000 years?

No, I mean the Episcopalian faith. Look it up.

Anyways, if you have to resort to citing spelling errors, it shows incompetence on your part.
The best you can do is point out my first one-letter misspelling? :rolleyes:

‏אבּבוג

Thanks for using vowels. Like any of us can read it anyways. :p

Im a wiccan

some one said something about Pagan worshiping devils. Well Consider the Following
1. Pagans and Wiccans dont believe in Devil; You do
2. If you believe in the Devil doesnt that go against the frist commandment that says there is only one God; even if the Devil is an Anti-Deity
3. If Christians believe there is ONE god why worship Jesus and the Holy Spirit. If you aren't a Unitarian or Jew your probably a Pagan by definition

Im wiccan and can answer this... uh.. wait.. hang on.. had it.. wait.. no.. um.. damn.. i forgot.. oh well.. i guess they are to stuck up on the POLYTHEISM!!!... thats right.. multiple gods.. = 1

No, the Christian Faith.

You're not a Christian. I even highly doubt you're Catholic. I have yet to see you show any of the love, compassion, and kindness Jesus showed. I have only seen you denegrate others, which is something Jesus never did nor would tolerate. All you do is look down your nose at people.

You even claim that all Gentile gods are devils when you, in fact, are a Gentile.

I am done with you.

Why is it so funny?a) The hyperbole! b)The idiocy! c)The lack of sense or reason! d(The self-delusion evident in your proclamations!

For this portion of the test pick a), a & b), a, b or c), a, b & c) or all of the above)

Though I suspect you want us to infer that you are trained as a Jesuit, you just aren't displaying enough intelligence for that to be true. Better luck next time.

a Latino lisp.. Damn.. i though god was homosexual this whole time.. after all.. he created man AND woman in his likeness......

He created women for Steve's hairstylings.

But seriously, in Judeo-Christian mythology, God can be considered a hemaphrodite.

He created women for Steve's hairstylings.

But seriously, in Judeo-Christian mythology, God can be considered a hemaphrodite.

LMFAO!!!! either way.. homosexual or hermaphrodite.... arent they both wrong in.."GOD'S" eyes?

Enough squabble. I'm hijacking this 'ere thread.

On a certain game (and chat) website, namely TAO, I've noticed that people type Hebrew from left to right. What's up with that?
I mean, in alphebatizing your text, I saw that I had to switch backspace with delete, which was a bit awkward at first, but besides that, there wasn't that much work to be done.
Why not just type like you normally write?

Or did j00 just jew that text from the website like the Christians jewed the Torah from the Jews and j00 really don't know much about Hebrew?

Hey Defensor Fidel-Castro, I love j00... in the homosexual sort of way.

The best you can do is point out my first one-letter misspelling? :rolleyes:

If that's the case, then why did you have to point out my correct spelling?

Stop beating around the bush. No sect of Christianity is any more right than any other-we believe what we believe, that's all there is to it.

Didn't Christ die for all humanity, not only for you and whatever fundamentalist Church you belong to? Why are good Buddhists, Hindus, Jews, Muslims, Catholics, Anglicans (Episcopalian fits in with this one), Lutherans, Methodists, hell, even Zoroastrians, etc. not good enough?

Refute THAT! Christ himself in the Bible you take oh-so-literally says that all people are eligible to enter Heaven, be they Jew or Gentile. All are equal in the eyes of God.

No, all the gods of the pagans are devils.So you believe in them, since you believe in the devil....

You're not a Christian. I even highly doubt you're Catholic. I have yet to see you show any of the love, compassion, and kindness Jesus showed. I have only seen you denegrate others, which is something Jesus never did nor would tolerate. All you do is look down your nose at people.

You even claim that all Gentile gods are devils when you, in fact, are a Gentile.

I am done with you.

WOO HOO! Good one!

*Applauds Keruvalia's excellent argument*

So you believe in them, since you believe in the devil....

No, my religion is a monotheism.

What about the trinity?

No, same entity, three times the flavor.

Schizophrenia?

No.
No.
Yes... I mean no.

And the devil?

He's not really a diety, he's just there to keep people in line.

So he's not a god?

Well, um... no. More like a demigod.

Ok. What about the plural in Elohim, the myths of Nephilim, and the multiple intities at the start of Genisis?

Those were written by two different authors and put together as one creation story.

You mean two different gods, as the bible "is the true word of God"?

Yes, two different gods... no wait! Wait! One god!

...

Shutup.

Didn't Christ die for all humanity, not only for you and whatever fundamentalist Church you belong to? Why are good Buddhists, Hindus, Jews, Muslims, Catholics, Anglicans (Episcopalian fits in with this one), Lutherans, Methodists, hell, even Zoroastrians, etc. not good enough?

Refute THAT! Christ himself in the Bible you take oh-so-literally says that all people are eligible to enter Heaven, be they Jew or Gentile. All are equal in the eyes of God.
Well, technically the good Pagans still go to Hell (At least, if you beleive Dante :P), its just not as bad. And you can listen to Aristotle jabber for the rest of eternity ^_^
But yeah, Im Christian, and I figure that whatever happens, happens. If Pagans want to be Pagan, let 'em. God is merciful and while they might be wrong, Im sure he wont punish them for all eternity just because of a few mistakes.
I am moderatly certain there is a special circle of Hell reserved for uberfundies and the sort of people who ran such wonderful enterprises such as the inqusition.

Enough squabble. I'm hijacking this 'ere thread.

On a certain game (and chat) website, namely TAO, I've noticed that people type Hebrew from left to right. What's up with that?

Well ... Hebrew is written from right to left. All semitic languages are. Not everyone has Hebrew fonts imbedded in their browsers, so it was essential to find a way to put the text into a form that everyone could see.

As for Hebrew, well, it's a language I am intimately familiar with. If you'd like to see Tehillim as they were originally written, check here:

http://www.midrash.org/tefilloth/tehillim/index1.html

Haha, My state religion embraces my national animal: the white pointer shark. When one has human for dinner, (as happens from time to time) the shark assumes the soul and personality of the swimmer/surfer. If they eat more than one, they assume multiple personalities. Thats why our sharks are sacred. They kill and they are psycho just like me.

How can I worship something I don't believe in? We don't believe in a devil of any sort. We believe that there is positive and negative in everything, and that balances out. Now you, little mister Christian, can be a devil worshipper. You believe in one.

I think it's because there's a new wave of Paganism(i might have made up that work) that Christians don't know about. We are still relying on our knowledge of past Pagans who did worship a devil of some kind.

Maybe you can enlighten us with your beliefs to furthur educate us.

No, my religion is a monotheism.

Wait! The trinity!

No, same entity, three times the flavor.

Schizophrenia?

No.
No.
Yes... I mean no.

And the devil?

He's not really a diety, he's just there to keep people in line.

So he's not a god?

Well, um... no.

Ok. What about the plural in Elohim, the myths of Nephilim, and the multiple intities in Genisis?

Those were written by two different authors and put together as one creation story.

You mean two different gods, as the bible is the true word of God?

Yes, two different gods... no wait! Wait! One god!

...

Shutup.

Allow me to clarify, if I may.

God is three diving beings in one-Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. They are beyond our meager human capabilities to imagine-God is too perfect to be viewed by human eyes, He is omnipotent-He simply "is".

The Devil does exist. Tradition in the Catholic Church states that Satan was once an Archangel created by God, on par with Michael or Gabriel, to give you an idea. Well, one day Lucifer (as he was known) got it into his head that he was better than God, and wanted to conquer the kingdom of Heaven for himself. So, he persuaded 1/3 of all the angels in Heaven to revolt against God and his Angels. A huge battle ensued, but naturally, God won, and stripped Lucifer of his divine grace, and cast him down into Hell along with all his followers. They've been there ever since, greedily taking in the souls of unrepentant sinners and preparing for the great tribulation at the end of time.

This is evidenced somewhat by Isiah 14:12-20. It's open to interpritation, but it basically gives the message I gave above.

There. Hope I helped.

We could start a whole other thread on the nature of the Holy Trinity and that of Satan, but I'd much rather get back to out-debating over-zealous fundamentalist here.

I think it's because there's a new wave of Paganism(i might have made up that work) that Christians don't know about. We are still relying on our knowledge of past Pagans who did worship a devil of some kind.

Maybe you can enlighten us with your beliefs to furthur educate us.


Actually, depending on your definition of a devil, then no one worshipped one. It's just how certian dieties are percieved by Christians/Jews/Muslims.

Take for example, Ereshkigal from my religion. She's the ruler of the underworld (where everyone goes when they die, regardless), and can generally be a bitch to "bad" people, as so decreed by Utu and Nanna (Sun god and Moon god). And nice to others.
That and she's in a constant state of depression.

Now, I can easily see her being defined as the devil, yet, I don't believe her to be such. Espically since I know the story of why she's the way she is and ruler of the underworld (Breif summary: she marrys a god, said god gives her the underworld as a present, said god dies).

I think it's because there's a new wave of Paganism(i might have made up that work) that Christians don't know about. We are still relying on our knowledge of past Pagans who did worship a devil of some kind.

Maybe you can enlighten us with your beliefs to furthur educate us.

Okay, this is Angry Fruit Salad hijacking Raven_Moonfire's computer (hehe, the beauty of nearly living with someone!)

Anyway, I'm technically a monotheistic Wiccan, meaning I believe in one Deity, but I worship the individual faces of the Deity. I believe that Pan, Aphrodite, Loki(no, not the guy from Dogma), etc are all the same being, but in different forms. (Yes, it's just as schizophrenic as the Trinity.) I believe in spells as an advanced form of prayer, in that they are usually far more specific. However, my Deities are the same as the Deities of the past (Roman, Greek, Egyptian, etc.) , although I believe they are all one.

Anyway, that's enough for now. Raven's sick and wants me to go warm him up in his bed, hehe. By the way, we're not married, so have fun with that! ;P

I think it's because there's a new wave of Paganism(i might have made up that work) that Christians don't know about. We are still relying on our knowledge of past Pagans who did worship a devil of some kind.

Maybe you can enlighten us with your beliefs to furthur educate us.

Pagans NEVER worshipped the devil.

Christians transformed dieties such as the mesopatamian gods Baal or Mammon into demons and devils in an effort to demonify and desecrate their religions.

Slaughtering and destroying their cultures wasn't enough, nor was rape and pillage, the only effective way to destroy a culture is to destroy its belief system and humiliate all things sacred to that society.

By the way, the image you conjure when you think of the devil is from the propaganda vilifying the image of Baal... that's right, it's so effective it last unto this day.

Well, technically the good Pagans still go to Hell (At least, if you beleive Dante :P), its just not as bad. And you can listen to Aristotle jabber for the rest of eternity ^_^
But yeah, Im Christian, and I figure that whatever happens, happens. If Pagans want to be Pagan, let 'em. God is merciful and while they might be wrong, Im sure he wont punish them for all eternity just because of a few mistakes.
I am moderatly certain there is a special circle of Hell reserved for uberfundies and the sort of people who ran such wonderful enterprises such as the inqusition.

Yeah-I felt so sorry for Virgil and Socrates when I read that. But, while I think The Inferno is a damn good read, I don't believe a word of it, though I'm tempted. I'm sure the horrors of Hell are beyond our imagination, and I really don't want to try.

As a Protestant, I don't believe in any sort of Purgatory where people wait for admission to Heaven. I believe you're given a choice (read:you make this choice by how you live your life), and depending on which you choose, you either go straight to Heaven or Hell. No getting better at it or Angel classes for me-I'm either on a one-way trip to the top floor suite or the sub-basement. I'll just have to try my best, then wait and see.

There. Hope I helped.

I'm well aware of the mythology. I'm well aware it sounds just as stupid as the pagan religions some Christians rebuke. And that was the point in my long winded post which was as a whole, sadly, unappreciated for its comedic value and attempts to alleviate tension or at least direct anger in my general direction.

Yes, I'm pagan, well, to be exact I have Wiccan/Taoist/Jaino-Hindu-Buddhist/Shintoist beliefs and I am sick and tired of prosletizing and attacks by ignorant fools with no respect for others beliefs.

Yes, I'm pagan, well, to be exact I have Wiccan/Taoist/Jaino-Hindu-Buddhist/Shintoist beliefs and I am sick and tired of prosletizing and attacks by ignorant fools with no respect for others beliefs.

Ooh. You a player. Tappin' all the religions eh?

No, all the gods of the pagans are devils.

I can't begin to tell you just how happy I am that apparently ignorance is not a dsqualification to discourse here....perhaps because I am not at all happy. Still, I suppose some logical discussion might be in order here.

Let us see...According to Christianity, which gifted us with the Devil, the Devil is a singular entity, to wit, the fallen angel Lucifer. Of course, this seems to be a Christian invention circa the early Medieval period rather than an inheritance from the earlier forms of Judaism from which Christianity springs...In any case, given that the Devil is a singular entity, I find myself incredulous at the contention that ALL the gods of the pagans are devils...I suppose it is possible Defensor Fidei, in his self-appointed role as Defender of the Faith and despited the concomitant delusions of grandeur such a usurpation of the title indicates, meant to say that all the gods of the pagans are demons rather than devils...Of course, one will never really know and I suspect I would be engaged in an exercise in futility if I were to ask Defensor Fidei to elucidate. I cannot say for certain but somehow I speculate he would be unable to do so....a question of capacity rather than intent perhaps?

Man, we so need to get a Druid to post on this thread.

Are some people this ignorant they cannot even figure out basic Bible concordance with Roman numerals? :rolleyes:

Psalm 95:5
For all the gods of the Gentiles are devils...

I have spent all of my life as a wiccan and have learned to see through the veil of bigotry that tends to linger in front of us when someone confronts our religion. But even I get angy when some one quotes the bible literaly, with the intent to bring down anothers religion. While I dont personaly belive in the christian beliefs I know that the bible does have a few things in it that tie in with my own beliefs. It teaches Perfect love and perfect love, however history has shown us that this isn't taken to heart by many chirstians.

Now as to your reference. If All us wiccans worshiped devils then we could never live in the confines of some of our primal beliefs. We could not try to live our lives with perfect love and perfect trust, and we would never belive in the threefold law.

So for future reference please dont use your religion to tell us ours is wrong, we dont do it to you. :)

Pagans NEVER worshipped the devil.

Christians transformed dieties such as the mesopatamian god Baal or Mammon into demons and devils in an effort to demonify and desecrate their religions.

Slaughtering and destroying their cultures wasn't enough, nor was rape and pillage, the only effective way to destroy a culture is to destroy its belief system and humiliate all things sacred to that society.

By the way, the image you conjure when you think of the devil is from the propaganda vilifying the image of Baal... that's right, it's so effective it last unto this day.

I took the liberty of editing all comments pertaining to Catholic Hispanics.

I would appreciate you being more specific with the religions these gods come from. I myself follow a mesopotamian religion, but not the one that considers those as gods.
Although, for fun.
Baal = Canaanite god of fertility, 'rider of the clouds', and god of lightning and thunder.
And I can't find Mammon anywhere.

I think it's because there's a new wave of Paganism(i might have made up that work) that Christians don't know about. We are still relying on our knowledge of past Pagans who did worship a devil of some kind.
Nope, you're wrong. Pagan most commonly refers to the Celtic and Scandinavian mythoi, but can also sometimes be used for any polytheistic religion. And Christians use it to mean Satanism (which, curiously enough, in reality, is actually very similar to Wicca). True Pagans never worshipped any devil. Hell, the word comes from the Latin word paganus, civilian or country dweller, dervied from pagus, country district. No devil worship in there as far as I can tell.

I believe that Pan, Aphrodite, Loki(no, not the guy from Dogma), etc are all the same being, but in different forms. (Yes, it's just as schizophrenic as the Trinity.)
Holy crap, that's messed up. You mixed a minor Greek god with a major Greek goddess with a Norse semi-major god. That's...interesting. You sound like more of a pseudo-pantheist to me (not meant derogatorily). Perhaps a panentheist. Paganism pretty much requires polytheistic beliefs, though it seem that you have those anyways. I just don't understand what you're saying...but it seems interesting if I were to get a little better grasp of it.

Yes, I'm pagan, well, to be exact I have Wiccan/Taoist/Jaino-Hindu-Buddhist/Shintoist beliefs and I am sick and tired of prosletizing and attacks by ignorant fools with no respect for others beliefs.
:p Finally! A believer of Shinto! I can finally laugh at you! I made an oath that if I ever encounter a Shintoist that I would laugh at him or her, and now I can. HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH!!!

Seriously, I have nothing wrong with Shinto, though. I think that the Japanese 0wnz0rz everyone. They rock, and I've read much literature and documentary on Japan, especially during the feudal era, with a focus on Sengoku Jidai and the Bakumatsu. It's just that I feel that Shinto is even more passé than Christianity is, and that's saying something for me. Though I must admit that Shinto mythos is much more intriguing than those of many other religions.

Man, we so need to get a Druid to post on this thread.
Technically, no druids may really exist anymore. The requirements for the status of druid was lost with most of the Celtic culture that housed them. I ahte the Romans so much for what they did to the Celts. But anyone who claims to be a druid now-a-days is either BSing you or doesn't know what a real druid is. IF they were to refer to themselves as a neo-druid or something, that could be perfectly acceptable, however. One may still practise what knowledge is left to us of druidry, which admittedly isn't nearly as much as we'd like. Too much is conjecture. Though we do still ahve many myths left over. Cúchulain 4 evah!

Psalm xcvV
Christians worship death and weakness, but who's counting?

Not only a Jew, but David, a *legitamite* King of the Jews.
Bravo!

Though of course you're damned to hell for eternity for...umm...being the same religion as Jesus himself...oh wait...

Technically, no druids may really exist anymore. The requirements for the status of druid was lost with most of the Celtic culture that housed them. I ahte the Romans so much for what they did to the Celts. But anyone who claims to be a druid now-a-days is either BSing you or doesn't know what a real druid is. IF they were to refer to themselves as a neo-druid or something, that could be perfectly acceptable, however. One may still practise what knowledge is left to us of druidry, which admittedly isn't nearly as much as we'd like. Too much is conjecture. Though we do still ahve many myths left over. Cúchulain 4 evah!

Man, I used to know this stuff pretty well. What was Cuchulain?

I always found Aeval quite humourous; nothing like a faery queen holding court to see if husbands were satisfying their wives :p. Goibniu was also pretty kick ass.

oi! I'm a pagan following the ancient Greek mythology and believe that most of its stories and principals are either entirely true, or representative of things that science has now proven to be true. One example of this is that of creationism. According to my religion, Prometheus created humanity in several stages. This would account for evolution as it shows the change from australopithicus (did i spell that correctly?) to Homo Sapien

Wiccans and Pagans are worshippers of devils!
I realize this is long gone, but I must say, you cannot say that, without any knowledge of them, I myself do not fallow pegan belief but I certainly have nothing against them, as long as you carry peaceful ways you A O.K.

Bs or not, I consider myself more druidistic in nature than anything else. I have read all I can find on them, and am finding more speculation than fact, but in my heart of hearts I am still druid, even if it isn't followed to the purest sence of the religeon. If I am bsing you, then I am happily doing it, I have made my choice to live this way because it makes me happy.. I was raised in a southern baptist home(no dancing, no drinking, no extramarital affairs) the hypocrast of the religeon made me flee it. I am what I am now because of where I came from.. I harbor no ill will ro anyone, I welcome intellegent non-combative conversations, and am thought to be rather intellegent. but then, maybe I'm bsing myself too.

Disgruntled Pagans, 90% less deadly than Disgruntled Postmen.

Bs or not, I consider myself more druidistic in nature than anything else...I was raised in a southern baptist home.

This is what I was looking for.

Although pagan and Christian mythologies sound equally silly from a [well concentrated] objective standpoint, being raised in a monotheistic society with a view that polytheistic/animist/pantheist/etc. religions are archaic makes me wonder as to how people with pagan beliefs came into being.

The cynic in me has always assumed that they were manifestations of intellectual rebellion against the moronic religions of said individuals' families in the form of a misplaced teenage rebellion that entered the non-monotheistic world of beliefs with the mindset that such an abstract and archaic way of thinking would be the only way to assert an intellectual independence.

This post seems to substantiate my opinion, though the skeptic and gentleman in me prefers not to leap before I look (a dozen or so times).

In any even, I do hold doubts as to the authenticity of pagans' beliefs; not that I don't see Christians deluding themselves, I simply find that their delusion is reinforced by others around them.

My choice to be pagan over christian was not stemmed by rebellion. My parents turned away from the christian god long before I did. (my mother made a deal with god that if he brought elvira(a cat) home, she would be more devout again. My brother brought elvira home in a box, my mother did not see the humor). My reasons, however bizarre they may appear to you have a validity, I am what I am because I feel like I belong now. I never did before.
My turning point, however sad it may seem was when I was 22 and found out that my neice had been molested for the past 3 years by her father. I looked into those beautiful clear blue eyes and wondered what on earth would posess someone to take that innocence away. Then I questioned god, why would he let that happen. That is when I realized you don't have a personal relationship with god, you have an internal motivation known as your conscience, and you name it jesus, or god, or the holy spirit, or mother mary, or whatever is guiding you in your mind. After that, I decided I was done with religeon, until I met a few people hwo were pagans, and we talked. I told them of what I believed was true, and they told me that I sounded very druidistic. So I started studying them, and found that they did hold a lot of what I believed as truths.
I could never really return to the christian faith because I have read the apocrapha(SP) and the book of thomas. there are too many inconsistencies, and blatant lies in the translations that the true meaning cannot be devised any more.
SO, I hope this explains to you that I did not turn away from the christian religeon because of my parents, or through some rebellion, it was due to a realization that everything that I was told, and believed to be true was all myth.

disgruntled Pagans
wait a minute...are there any?
Far from being disgruntled, I'd wager that they're the most gruntled religos around (except possibly Buddhists, cause they also look very gruntled).

I also was raised conservative baptist... But as my parents raised me to think independently none the less, I grew increasingly dismayed at the constant hypocrasy I was seeing in the supposed church. So in my early teens I decided to go researching religions that might fit more to how I thought and felt about the world around me. Christianity is alright and there is some great ideas there that seem to get inevitably twisted by the Churches agenda... but it wasn't enough and I felt that the keeping down of females particularly disturbing. So I came across Wicca and Paganism. It had the balance I was looking for and also the freedom of practice both solitary and group. It also seemed to confirm my belief that everything not only has its own divine spirit but all is connected in some great tapestry that we can not ever truly comphrehend. So I practice what I feel comfortable, mostly Native American influenced Earth worship... I also believe that the Creator gave us all these options so each of us would find It in our own way...

I also was raised conservative baptist... But as my parents raised me to think independently none the less, I grew increasingly dismayed at the constant hypocrasy I was seeing in the supposed church. So in my early teens I decided to go researching religions that might fit more to how I thought and felt about the world around me. Christianity is alright and there is some great ideas there that seem to get inevitably twisted by the Churches agenda... but it wasn't enough and I felt that the keeping down of females particularly disturbing. So I came across Wicca and Paganism. It had the balance I was looking for and also the freedom of practice both solitary and group. It also seemed to confirm my belief that everything not only has its own divine spirit but all is connected in some great tapestry that we can not ever truly comphrehend. So I practice what I feel comfortable, mostly Native American influenced Earth worship... I also believe that the Creator gave us all these options so each of us would find It in our own way...


Maybe you'd be of some assistance in the "...under god.." thread.

Silver cities, just ewanted to say I thought your last post very eloquent and it struck a cord with me.

Holy crap, that's messed up. You mixed a minor Greek god with a major Greek goddess with a Norse semi-major god. That's...interesting. You sound like more of a pseudo-pantheist to me (not meant derogatorily). Perhaps a panentheist. Paganism pretty much requires polytheistic beliefs, though it seem that you have those anyways. I just don't understand what you're saying...but it seems interesting if I were to get a little better grasp of it.


I was doing that to make a point, actually. I believe that every God, Goddess, or Genderless Deity in all of history is the same natural, governing, divine force.

I have spent all of my life as a wiccan and have learned to see through the veil of bigotry that tends to linger in front of us when someone confronts our religion. But even I get angy when some one quotes the bible literaly, with the intent to bring down anothers religion. While I dont personaly belive in the christian beliefs I know that the bible does have a few things in it that tie in with my own beliefs. It teaches Perfect love and perfect love, however history has shown us that this isn't taken to heart by many chirstians.

Now as to your reference. If All us wiccans worshiped devils then we could never live in the confines of some of our primal beliefs. We could not try to live our lives with perfect love and perfect trust, and we would never belive in the threefold law.

So for future reference please dont use your religion to tell us ours is wrong, we dont do it to you. :)
That's because your religion is wrong and does involve devil-worship.

That's because your religion is wrong and does involve devil-worship.

*Grabs you, tars & feathers you, then slaps a hugeass sticker on your forehead that says 'TROLL' in really big letters*

For the last FUCKING time, Wicca does not involve devil-worship of any sort. You're really getting old and annoying, and the only reason I'm still here is because I started this thread!

For the last FUCKING time, Wicca does not involve devil-worship of any sort. You're really getting old and annoying, and the only reason I'm still here is because I started this thread![/QUOTE]
By this time in the thread anyone who doesn't understand that is someone that is too brainwashed and self absorbed to see it, someone that is just playing with you to get the dander up, or someone who's mind simply can't fathom thinking beyond the box of what is forcefed in the religeon classes of their church
Whatever it may be, it's a waste of energy to type it, and it is obvious wasted on those who refuse to see. SO, let it go, and contribute on a level that is more intended for higher thinkers such as yourself.

Pagans NEVER worshipped the devil.

Christians transformed dieties such as the mesopatamian gods Baal or Mammon into demons and devils in an effort to demonify and desecrate their religions.

Slaughtering and destroying their cultures wasn't enough, nor was rape and pillage, the only effective way to destroy a culture is to destroy its belief system and humiliate all things sacred to that society.

By the way, the image you conjure when you think of the devil is from the propaganda vilifying the image of Baal... that's right, it's so effective it last unto this day.


Not true. There were many societies that did worship "the devil" in the form of the devil mentioned in the biblical text.

I think the word "pagan" has been used rather loosely. Many people probably mean a different word. However, you can't judge people because they're definition of a word is different.

I'm only stating what most Christians believe. So far only one person has actually answered me question rather than bash my statements.

Care to answer my question now?

Explain to me what Pagan means to you?

Man, I used to know this stuff pretty well. What was Cuchulain?.

Cúchulainn was an Irish hero, mostly made famous by the Irish Epic the "Táin Bó Cuailnge" (The Cattle Raid of Cooley) in which he kills ALOT of people. (decapitaiton usually being involved at some point) Cúchulainn himself was a demi-god if i remember rightly, his father being a sun god called Lugh.

Im a christian and I dont hold anything against "pagans"

were all sinners!!

christians are sinners as well!!!

Bs or not, I consider myself more druidistic in nature than anything else. I have read all I can find on them, and am finding more speculation than fact, but in my heart of hearts I am still druid, even if it isn't followed to the purest sence of the religeon. If I am bsing you, then I am happily doing it, I have made my choice to live this way because it makes me happy.. I was raised in a southern baptist home(no dancing, no drinking, no extramarital affairs) the hypocrast of the religeon made me flee it. I am what I am now because of where I came from.. I harbor no ill will ro anyone, I welcome intellegent non-combative conversations, and am thought to be rather intellegent. but then, maybe I'm bsing myself too.


Dont listen to extremesits who say "no alcohol" "no dancing" "no card games"....


They are just stupid rules that people have made up and arnet realy in the bible.

(except maby premaritale sex - but its your choice and know one is alowed to punish you for it)

Im a christian and I dont hold anything against "pagans"

were all sinners!!

christians are sinners as well!!!
Christians are saved. Pagans are damned.

I'm happy to observe that most Pagans in this forum look articulate. That's why I have a question: where could I find a good book on Wicca (title, publisher, etc.)?

Explain to me what Pagan means to you?

Pagan to me in definition is classified under the "Other" category in the religeon field. If you want to define pagan that is basically it. It does generally refer to polydism, but not athiests.
If you want to know what it means to me I believe I did a fairly decent job explaining myself a few posts back. I never felt like I belonged anywhere until I became pagan. I never felt like I could say what was on my mind without massive reprocussions(happened a lot) in the christian sect. I was an outsider and the christians I went to church with made sure I felt that way. That didn't stop me from trying to be devout though. Then the hypocracy, and scandal got too much for me. with my 6 year old neice being molested for 4 years and the church advising my sister to sweep it under the rug and make herself more available to the husbands desires. I just flat out turned my back on it until I met some friends that were pagan. they told me to check out druidism, so I did, and I liked it, I met some like minded people, and I now feel joy in my religeon, I feel like I belong. maybe some people out there can't relate to that feeling, but it is great when you finally find it. there is a genuine warmth I never felt before from people in my circle.
That may not be what you are looking for, but that is what being pagan means to me, it's a spiritual home where there is no judging from the inside, and yu are welcomed and loved with enthusiasm from your circle. I am a better man for being pagan

Christians are saved. Pagans are damned.

See its your choice though, I like this definition of sin:

Sin is basically you telling God to go away, when you go to hell that is when God gives you what you want, you are separated from him forever.

From what I have gathered, some of your former christian churches seemed to have been performing bad practices on you, also known as "mind control" (or they may have used some parts of it)


Go to http://www.cultwatch.com

and www.cults.co.nz



I am not pointing the finger at your "pagan beleifs" but am asking you to go and read these websites, (especially the things about mind control) and see if your former christian churches were using bad practices on you.

Thankyou

See its your choice though, I like this definition of sin:

Sin is basically you telling God to go away, when you go to hell that is when God gives you what you want, you are separated from him forever.
So non-Christians may be saved?

So non-Christians may be saved?

I know of an Aetheist, he was stung by a jelly fish and he died. He met God shall we say to put a long story short. God said he would come back to life. Just as the surgeon was going to cut him open (i assume for an autopsy) he came back to life and freaked the surgoen out!!

he is a christian now.

I'm happy to observe that most Pagans in this forum look articulate. That's why I have a question: where could I find a good book on Wicca (title, publisher, etc.)?

in all honesty.. you can go to a local bookstore and get Wicca and Witchcraft for Idiots... lol.. otherwise.. look in the mediphisical section of any bookstore and there you are.. just find what looks liek it has info in it.. also.. look for any books written by The Grey Council...

I'm happy to observe that most Pagans in this forum look articulate. That's why I have a question: where could I find a good book on Wicca (title, publisher, etc.)?

I highly recommend any texts by Raymond Buckland. The Complete Book of Witchcraft and Wicca is most definitely a wonderful text for learning about any aspect of the craft or the beliefs behind it.

I know of an Aetheist, he was stung by a jelly fish and he died. He met God shall we say to put a long story short. God said he would come back to life. Just as the surgeon was going to cut him open (i assume for an autopsy) he came back to life and freaked the surgoen out!!

he is a christian now.
Are you going to answer the question?

So non-Christians may be saved?

does not your God state that all may be saved... it does not say anythign about being Christain to be saved.. hell.. Jesus wasnt Christain.. he was Jewish.. so truely if you look at it that wy.. Christains wouldnt be saved.. only the Jewish will be saved.

does not your God state that all may be saved... it does not say anythign about being Christain to be saved.. hell.. Jesus wasnt Christain.. he was Jewish.. so truely if you look at it that wy.. Christains wouldnt be saved.. only the Jewish will be saved.
Jews are damned.

Jesus saith to him: I am the way, and the truth, and the life. No man cometh to the Father, but by me.
--St. John xivVI

Jews are damned.

Jesus saith to him: I am the way, and the truth, and the life. No man cometh to the Father, but by me.
--St. John xivVI


So Jesus was damned. Jesus was a fucking Jew.


Just get your ass out of my thread, Troll.

Jews are damned.

Jesus saith to him: I am the way, and the truth, and the life. No man cometh to the Father, but by me.
--St. John xivVI

tell me how much of an idiot you are? do you really enjoy starting shit up you damn Nazi. i mean comeon.. who are you to say that one is damed and another isnt? are you the all mighty one himself.. are you the savior of this life.. if so.. then hell im glad im Wiccan i wouldnt want to believe in your god.. much less for that matter what St John would say!

does not your God state that all may be saved... it does not say anythign about being Christain to be saved.. hell.. Jesus wasnt Christain.. he was Jewish.. so truely if you look at it that wy.. Christains wouldnt be saved.. only the Jewish will be saved.

Being Christian simply means you believe Jesus was the son of God and that he came and died for your sins.

Christianity and Judiasm are linked in the sense that the Jews were God's chosen people before Jesus came. This meant at that time only Jews were saved from sin. However, after Jesus died, anyone who believes in him and repents will be saved.

Jews are damned.

Jesus saith to him: I am the way, and the truth, and the life. No man cometh to the Father, but by me.
--St. John xivVI

Jews are not damned. If a Jew believe in Jesus he would too be able to enter the kingdom of God.

Being Christian simply means you believe Jesus was the son of God and that he came and died for your sins.

Christianity and Judiasm are linked in the sense that the Jews were God's chosen people before Jesus came. This meant at that time only Jews were saved from sin. However, after Jesus died, anyone who believes in him and repents will be saved.

yes i do not disagree however.. what dufus stated was all are damned unless they are christains.. i myself used to be christain until i got upset with the church to much to believe in it ever again

Jews are not damned. If a Jew believe in Jesus he would too be able to enter the kingdom of God.


Now do you see why we hate this guy?

Being Christian simply means you believe Jesus was the son of God and that he came and died for your sins.

Christianity and Judiasm are linked in the sense that the Jews were God's chosen people before Jesus came. This meant at that time only Jews were saved from sin. However, after Jesus died, anyone who believes in him and repents will be saved.
The Jews killed Christ and are now accursed.

yes i do not disagree however.. what dufus stated was all are damned unless they are christains.. i myself used to be christain until i got upset with the church to much to believe in it ever again
Yes, all are damned lest they become Christians.

The Jews killed Christ and are now accursed.


Dude, you have no right to come on here and start trolling us to hell and back!! Next time, we'll just duct tape you to your devil's ass and leave you there!!

yes i do not disagree however.. what dufus stated was all are damned unless they are christains.. i myself used to be christain until i got upset with the church to much to believe in it ever again

I have a question. Did you get upset with your church? Or churches in general?

Because there are many corrupt churches. Even in the early churches.

If you read Revelations there are letters sent to at least 3 of such corrupt churches.

I have a question. Did you get upset with your church? Or churches in general?

Because there are many corrupt churches. Even in the early churches.

If you read Revelations there are letters sent to at least 3 of such corrupt churches.

churches in general... lets just say... one thing led to another... and.. yea... anyhow.. in general yes all churches

Yes, all are damned lest they become Christians.

tell me... where do you come off saying this.. what proof do you have to say something like this?

tell me... where do you come off saying this.. what proof do you have to say something like this?
God

Yes, all are damned lest they become Christians.

Don't you mean Catholics?
Since you seem to think only Catholics are Christians said elsewhere here).


Bit of evidence.. my grandmother, who was raised strictly catholic, and argued with nuns in high school when they tried to tell her about scientific things that the church had said were wrong. Particularly the theory of atoms.
Now, I'm pretty confident that unless you were born in the 1920's, my Grandmother has been a Catholic longer then you, and is probably more devout then you.
Yet, she knows that the Catholic faith isn't the only sect of Christianity. She also sais, as I was just talking to her, that in God's eyes, all people are equil, regardless of gender, skin color, faith, age, or ability. This comming from a woman who can't even remotely get along with the Protstant side of my Fathers family, or the English side of my family period (She's Acadian).
I think either you're trying to be an idiot to piss us off, or you're very young and spewing stuff you don't know. Or perhaps you really don;t know anything of your faith, as others have mentioned?

God

Oh God you say... So god came to you and said.. this? give me a break.. so come now.. tell me where you really got this information.. where did God tell you this>?

Paganism. Right. I don't have any problems. I do find the belief of spellcasting powers to be somewhat amusing, however. But if you can, by all means go ahead. In fact, if you can get empirical evidence I'll convert.

Oh God you say... So god came to you and said.. this? give me a break.. so come now.. tell me where you really got this information.. where did God tell you this>?

You know, that's cause to commit someone to a mental hospital here in Canada.
If someone claims God told them stuff, you can have them committed, grand isn't it?

Oh God you say... So god came to you and said.. this? give me a break.. so come now.. tell me where you really got this information.. where did God tell you this>?
Forgot already in your stupidity? :rolleyes:

Jesus saith to him: I am the way, and the truth, and the life. No man cometh to the Father, but by me.
--St. John xivVI

Paganism. Right. I don't have any problems. I do find the belief of spellcasting powers to be somewhat amusing, however. But if you can, by all means go ahead. In fact, if you can get empirical evidence I'll convert.

That's Wicca and a few sects of what is generally considered "Paganism".
Spell casting isn't in all religions considered "Pagan".
Also, "Pagan" is a term used to loosely define a group of religious beliefs, like "Christian" is used to define Cathololic, Protestant, Moromon.. and so on.

You know, that's cause to commit someone to a mental hospital here in Canada.
If someone claims God told them stuff, you can have them committed, grand isn't it?
Nobody expects much from Canada.

Forgot already in your stupidity? :rolleyes:

Jesus saith to him: I am the way, and the truth, and the life. No man cometh to the Father, but by me.
--St. John xivVI


Ok lest i remind you in YOUR Stupidity now... Jesus was a Jew. Even though Jews killed Jesus he still said God forgive them for they know not what they do.. so.. doesnt that mean.. yes. yes.. i think it does.. JEWS WERE FORGIVEN!!!! so.. uh.. OH MY GOD!!!! CHRISTIANITY ISNT THE ONLY WAY TO GET TO HEAVEN!!!!!

Ok lest i remind you in YOUR Stupidity now... Jesus was a Jew. Even though Jews killed Jesus he still said God forgive them for they know not what they do.. so.. doesnt that mean.. yes. yes.. i think it does.. JEWS WERE FORGIVEN!!!! so.. uh.. OH MY GOD!!!! CHRISTIANITY ISNT THE ONLY WAY TO GET TO HEAVEN!!!!!
I) Iesus Christus was not a Jew.
II) Christianity is the only way to Heaven. These are His own words!

I) Iesus Christus was not a Jew.
II) Christianity is the only way to Heaven. These are His own words!


How the hell can you be "king of the Jews" and not be a jew?! Besides, EVERYONE WAS A FUCKING JEW BACK THEN!!!

I) Iesus Christus was not a Jew.
II) Christianity is the only way to Heaven. These are His own words!


WHOAH!!!!!! TALK ABOUT A HISTORY LESON NEEDED TO BE LEARNED>>> .. .tell me.. where does it say Christ is not a Jewish Carpenter? i want the bible you read this from and for that matter exactly the verse and scripture.. i have to read this with my own eyes

How the hell can you be "king of the Jews" and not be a jew?! Besides, EVERYONE WAS A FUCKING JEW BACK THEN!!!
Everyone was a Jew? :confused:

http://www.witchvox.com/basics/wfaq.html

This site will give you basics of the Wiccan faith.

Consider the Following:
If God is All-loving and all-forgiving how can hell exist?

That's Wicca and a few sects of what is generally considered "Paganism".
Spell casting isn't in all religions considered "Pagan".
Also, "Pagan" is a term used to loosely define a group of religious beliefs, like "Christian" is used to define Cathololic, Protestant, Moromon.. and so on.


Ah, forgive me for my incorrect use of a blanket term. After Wikipeding it's clear to me that "Pagan" is pretty much every religion that doesn't happen to be Christianity, Judaism, Islam, Buddhist, Hindu, or Confucian. Almost as broad as the term religion itself. How is it even discussed, considering how diverse it is?

Ah, forgive me for my incorrect use of a blanket term. After Wikipeding it's clear to me that "Pagan" is pretty much every religion that doesn't happen to be Christianity, Judaism, Islam, Buddhist, Hindu, or Confucian. Almost as broad as the term religion itself. How is it even discussed, considering how diverse it is?
Mahometans, Hindoos, Buddhists, and "Confucians" are all pagans.
Jews, are of course in their own class...

I) Iesus Christus was not a Jew.
II) Christianity is the only way to Heaven. These are His own words!

Uh, yes he was, he was born to Jewish parents, Mary and Joseph, incase you don't remember. Thus he was a Jew.
And let's not forget he is not Iesus Christus, he is Iesus of Nazareth, "Christos" being added later as it is the Greek word for Messia, which to Chrstianity, Iesus is.
Thus, Jesus Christ, is merely a modernized version of "Iesus the messia."

Everyone was a Jew? :confused:

Judaism was the Christianity of the era! When your so-called Savior was born, Christianity didn't just suddenly pop up out of nowhere and start damning Jews!

Mahometans, Hindoos, Buddhists, and "Confucians" are all pagans.
Jews, are of course in their own class...

First of all, you can't spell.

Second, Confucianism isn't a religion. It's more of a philosophy/thought process.

Ah, forgive me for my incorrect use of a blanket term. After Wikipeding it's clear to me that "Pagan" is pretty much every religion that doesn't happen to be Christianity, Judaism, Islam, Buddhist, Hindu, or Confucian. Almost as broad as the term religion itself. How is it even discussed, considering how diverse it is?

It's discussed by people who are generally ignorant of what it really is, by people who are just into it as a fad (As I find the majority of Wiccan followers nowadays happen to be nothing more then teenage girls trying to rebel and experiment with stuff, although there are true Wiccans, and they are respectable), or by Christians who know nothing past the tip of their own noses.

God

Uhuh, Yeah. Well, Ahura Mazda told me that Jesus is a copy of an Aryan sun god called Mithra (Worshipped in Ancient Persia as Mithra and still worshipped by Hindus as Mitra). Mithra predates Christ by 1500 years and has too many similarities to your version of Mithra to make it a coincidence. Dont believe me?

Mithra, Sungod of Persia
The story of Mithra precedes the Christian fable by at least 600 years. According to Wheless, the cult of Mithra was, shortly before the Christian era, "the most popular and widely spread 'Pagan' religion of the times." Mithra has the following in common with the Christ character:

Mithra was born of a virgin on December 25th.
He was considered a great traveling teacher and master.
He had 12 companions or disciples.
He performed miracles.
He was buried in a tomb.
After three days he rose again.
His resurrection was celebrated every year.
Mithra was called "the Good Shepherd."
He was considered "the Way, the Truth and the Light, the Redeemer, the Savior, the Messiah."
He was identified with both the Lion and the Lamb.
His sacred day was Sunday, "the Lord's Day," hundreds of years before the appearance of Christ.
Mithra had his principal festival on what was later to become Easter, at which time he was resurrected.
His religion had a Eucharist or "Lord's Supper."52

http://www.truthbeknown.com/mithra.htm

Not only that, but most of the tenets of your religion have been taken from my faith. The belief in angels and deamons, of an afterlife based on judgement of the soul dependent on the works of one's life, the belief in a savior (Messiah to Christians and Jews, Sashoyant to Zoroastrians), and the belief in apocalypse were all taken from the Zoroastrians. Your entire faith is a plagarism of three older faiths. You have stolen from the Zarathushtri (Zoroastrian) faith, from the ancient Aryan faith, and from the Jewish Torah to make a religion. Great work!

Mahometans, Hindoos, Buddhists, and "Confucians" are all pagans.
Jews, are of course in their own class...

how are all of these people pagans when... uh.. Christianity is the only thing that has used Camaflage Coverting and still does by using Pagan holidays as there own... for example... CHRISTMAS!!!!!

First of all, you can't spell.

Second, Confucianism isn't a religion. It's more of a philosophy/thought process.
I) I spelt everything correctly there.
II) Yes, hence the quotation marks. I was responding to a particular post, but you did not attempt to reprimand him, did you? Even so, it is a pagan-based system.

It's discussed by people who are generally ignorant of what it really is, by people who are just into it as a fad (As I find the majority of Wiccan followers nowadays happen to be nothing more then teenage girls trying to rebel and experiment with stuff, although there are true Wiccans, and they are respectable), or by Christians who know nothing past the tip of their own noses.

The people who have seen The Craft too many times are annoying indeed. I was just raised Wiccan, so it's no big deal to me.

Second, Confucianism isn't a religion. It's more of a philosophy/thought process.


Confucius is sometimes regarded as a deity.

I) I spelt everything correctly there.
II) Yes, hence the quotation marks. I was responding to a particular post, but you did not attempt to reprimand him, did you? Even so, it is a pagan-based system.


"Hindoo" isn't a word. It's more of a weird noise.

Your numerical system is pagan-based as well, for that matter. Why don't you stop using it? Also, this language uses Latin letters, which were pagan-based. Why don't you stop using it as well?

You're far more immersed in old Pagan ideas and practices than you know.

Confucius is sometimes regarded as a deity.


I have most definitely never heard of that before. Odd.

The people who have seen The Craft too many times are annoying indeed. I was just raised Wiccan, so it's no big deal to me.

Yes, I shudder at the thought, and smack said people when they annoy me with their spellcasting when they learn my "Pagan" beliefs.
Some people don't seem to understand that Pagan=/= Wicca, and also, Pagan =/= Magic.

Chris·tian adj. -Professing belief in Jesus as Christ or following the religion based on the life and teachings of Jesus

Jew n -A member of the widely dispersed people originally descended from the ancient Hebrews and sharing an ethnic heritage based on Judaism.

thus Jesus was Christian and a Jew

pa·gan n. - 1. One who is not a Christian, Muslim, or Jew, especially a worshiper of a polytheistic religion.
2. One who has no religion.
3. A non-Christian.
4. A hedonist.
5. A Neo-Pagan.

"Hindoo" isn't a word. It's more of a weird noise.

Your numerical system is pagan-based as well, for that matter. Why don't you stop using it? Also, this language uses Latin letters, which were pagan-based. Why don't you stop using it as well?

You're far more immersed in old Pagan ideas and practices than you know.

Other pagan practices used by most Christains today.....
I)Christmas
II)Halloween
III)Easter

hmm... so.. tell me.. Do you celebrate these days

this isnnt to angry frut salad...

"Hindoo" isn't a word. It's more of a weird noise.

Your numerical system is pagan-based as well, for that matter. Why don't you stop using it? Also, this language uses Latin letters, which were pagan-based. Why don't you stop using it as well?

You're far more immersed in old Pagan ideas and practices than you know.

Writing, the Wheel, irrigation, bricks, boats, an too many other "great inventions of man" were invented by Pagans. Many considered gifts from the Pagan gods.

Also, the first 4 on that list were invented by the Sumerians, who predate the jews by some 2000 years.

"Hindoo" isn't a word. It's more of a weird noise.

Your numerical system is pagan-based as well, for that matter. Why don't you stop using it? Also, this language uses Latin letters, which were pagan-based. Why don't you stop using it as well?

You're far more immersed in old Pagan ideas and practices than you know.
I) Hindoo is a word. It refers to a follower of a certain Indian pagan religion.
II) What numerical system is pagan?
III) How are Latin letters pagan?

Yes, I shudder at the thought, and smack said people when they annoy me with their spellcasting when they learn my "Pagan" beliefs.
Some people don't seem to understand that Pagan=/= Wicca, and also, Pagan =/= Magic.


There's not exactly anything wrong with spellcasting; I view it as an efficient form of prayer. Of course, when people start bugging the shit out of you about love spells and curses, it gets really damn old.

I have most definitely never heard of that before. Odd.

I'll give you a hint: you won't read anything like this in the Analects. Many of his followers more or less deified him after his death, and there are a great many Confucian temples in China.

I) Hindoo is a word. It refers to a follower of a certain Indian pagan religion.
II) What numerical system is pagan?
III) How are Latin letters pagan?

Roman Numerals -- They were created by Pagan Rome (WAY before Christianity surfaced)

Latin letters were also created by Pagans.

http://www.witchvox.com/xholidays.html

Other pagan practices used by most Christains today.....
Yes I celebrate them but with different names

There's not exactly anything wrong with spellcasting; I view it as an efficient form of prayer. Of course, when people start bugging the shit out of you about love spells and curses, it gets really damn old.

My point is that they seem to do nothing but think all pagans believe in magic. And they constantly bug me about that, then when they find out I don;t believe in magic, they try to bash my beliefs, claiming I'm not legitimate.

Dumbass pagan-wannabe's are just as bad as dumbass Christians.

I'll give you a hint: you won't read anything like this in the Analects. Many of his followers more or less deified him after his death, and there are a great many Confucian temples in China.


Ah -- I can see why they held such high opinions of him; the man was obviously a genius.

Roman Numerals -- They were created by Pagan Rome (WAY before Christianity surfaced)

Latin letters were also created by Pagans.
They are adopted and sanctified by the Church of Rome... :rolleyes:

http://www.witchvox.com/xholidays.html


Yes I celebrate them but with different names


The new names originated from the "Christianization" of Rome. The names of old Pagan holidays were changed in an attempt to transition into Christianity. Needless to say, it did not go over well at first.

http://www.witchvox.com/xholidays.html


Yes I celebrate them but with different names


Remember, these listed are Neo-Pagan hollidays, which doesn't mean they were ogironally practised by Pagans on the same day, or same time, or for the same reasons.

They are adopted and sanctified by the Church of Rome... :rolleyes:

And yet are still Pagan systems. So thus the argument about them presented to you is correct.

They are adopted and sanctified by the Church of Rome... :rolleyes:


So if the Church of Rome adopted and sanctified Wiccan practices, they'd be okay to you? So what the Church says matters, not what HISTORY says?

They are adopted and sanctified by the Church of Rome... :rolleyes:

The sanctified Church of Rome, which butchered 90,000 Jews and Muslims of Jerusalem for the glory of God, Which stood aside as Hitler killed 6 million Jews, Which killed hundreds of thousands in inquisitions. PRAISE THE HOLY CHURCH OF ROME!

They are adopted and sanctified by the Church of Rome... :rolleyes:

Just because they are adopted and sanctified means nothign that goes back into a previous statement of mine .. its called... shall we say it again since your stupidity made you forget?

CAMOFLOGED CONVERTING!!!

So if the Church of Rome adopted and sanctified Wiccan practices, they'd be okay to you? So what the Church says matters, not what HISTORY says?
They were not Wiccan practices.

Uhuh, Yeah. Well, Ahura Mazda told me that Jesus is a copy of an Aryan sun god called Mithra (Worshipped in Ancient Persia as Mithra and still worshipped by Hindus as Mitra). Mithra predates Christ by 1500 years and has too many similarities to your version of Mithra to make it a coincidence. Dont believe me?

Mithra, Sungod of Persia
The story of Mithra precedes the Christian fable by at least 600 years. According to Wheless, the cult of Mithra was, shortly before the Christian era, "the most popular and widely spread 'Pagan' religion of the times." Mithra has the following in common with the Christ character:

Mithra was born of a virgin on December 25th.
He was considered a great traveling teacher and master.
He had 12 companions or disciples.
He performed miracles.
He was buried in a tomb.
After three days he rose again.
His resurrection was celebrated every year.
Mithra was called "the Good Shepherd."
He was considered "the Way, the Truth and the Light, the Redeemer, the Savior, the Messiah."
He was identified with both the Lion and the Lamb.
His sacred day was Sunday, "the Lord's Day," hundreds of years before the appearance of Christ.
Mithra had his principal festival on what was later to become Easter, at which time he was resurrected.
His religion had a Eucharist or "Lord's Supper."52

http://www.truthbeknown.com/mithra.htm

Not only that, but most of the tenets of your religion have been taken from my faith. The belief in angels and deamons, of an afterlife based on judgement of the soul dependent on the works of one's life, the belief in a savior (Messiah to Christians and Jews, Sashoyant to Zoroastrians), and the belief in apocalypse were all taken from the Zoroastrians. Your entire faith is a plagarism of three older faiths. You have stolen from the Zarathushtri (Zoroastrian) faith, from the ancient Aryan faith, and from the Jewish Torah to make a religion. Great work!

Please respond

They were not Wiccan practices.


Apparently the word IF is not in your vocabulary.

The sanctified Church of Rome, which butchered 90,000 Jews and Muslims of Jerusalem for the glory of God, Which stood aside as Hitler killed 6 million Jews, Which killed hundreds of thousands in inquisitions. PRAISE THE HOLY CHURCH OF ROME!
For the glory of the Inquisition, ora pro nobis.

For the glory of the Holy Crusades, ora pro nobis.

Don't waste my time with holyhoax revisionism.

Remember, these listed are Neo-Pagan hollidays, which doesn't mean they were ogironally practised by Pagans on the same day, or same time, or for the same reasons.
Neopagan holidays wont be exactley the same overtime just like Christmas. But I can celebrate Pagan holidays and they would be irrecognizable from Christian ones.

For the glory of the Inquisition, ora pro nobis.

For the glory of the Holy Crusades, ora pro nobis.

Don't waste my time with holyhoax revisionism.

You deny all of my beliefs, except for my belief that YOU ARE A troll

You deny all of my beliefs, except for my belief that YOU ARE A troll
Unlike delusional folk and their holohoax, no matter how many times you repeat your lie, it shan't be true.

Unlike delusional folk and their holohoax, no matter how many times you repeat your lie, it shan't be true.


If it looks like a troll, walks like a troll, and talks like a troll,........

it's a fucking troll.

Unlike delusional folk and their holohoax, no matter how many times you repeat your lie, it shan't be true.

how is it a lie.. have you ready your history on Christianity?

how is it a lie.. have you ready your history on Christianity?
Yes, real history.

Defensor Fidei please comment on the Mirtha thread. Maybe you believe that the "devil" created him to fool the masses before christianity came along? Lets get real here, you cant deny the fact that the whole story of Jesus predates jesus himself.

Yes, real history.

real history.. then tell me.. what was the real reason for the Crusades

Unlike delusional folk and their holohoax, no matter how many times you repeat your lie, it shan't be true.
Maybe if I say it brat, demon, devil, deviling, devilkin, elf, fiend, gamin, gnome, gremlin, hellcat, hellion, minx, pixie, puck, rascal, rogue, scamp, sprite, troll, tyke, urchin, villain

Defensor Fidei please comment on the Mirtha thread. Maybe you believe that the "devil" created him to fool the masses before christianity came along? Lets get real here, you cant deny the fact that the whole story of Jesus predates jesus himself.


He won't, he ignores all intelligent and factual arguments.

He won't, he ignores all intelligent and factual arguments.

Exactly.

He won't, he ignores all intelligent and factual arguments.


Yep. Which is why he stalks me and never really responds to my posts with anything that makes sense... I really feel like he's following me through the threads now..

real history.. then tell me.. what was the real reason for the Crusades
To defend brutally oppressed Christians from the savagely violent Mahometans. As well as to liberate the Holy Land from being totally desecrated by the murderous Mahometans. The cry for compassion was answered by the Holy Church, Who came to the aid of its people being persecuted by the savages in Christ's own land.

To defend brutally oppressed Christians from the savagely violent Mahometans. As well as to liberate the Holy Land from being totally desecrated by the murderous Mahometans. The cry for compassion was answered by the Holy Church, Who came to the aid of its people being persecuted by the savages in Christ's own land.


ok now.. tell me.. what exactly is the "Holy Land?" or rather Christ's own land

ok now.. tell me.. what exactly is the "Holy Land?" or rather Christ's own land
The Land walked by Christ Himself.

To defend brutally oppressed Christians from the savagely violent Mahometans. As well as to liberate the Holy Land from being totally desecrated by the murderous Mahometans. The cry for compassion was answered by the Holy Church, Who came to the aid of its people being persecuted by the savages in Christ's own land.


You're partially right for once. It WAS over land. But still, so-called Christians killed people. How is that right? What about, oh I don't know..THOU SHALT NOT KILL?!

There's no way to justify killing someone!! If there is,then you can break every Commandment by saying you did it in the name of God.

To defend brutally oppressed Christians from the savagely violent Mahometans. As well as to liberate the Holy Land from being totally desecrated by the murderous Mahometans. The cry for compassion was answered by the Holy Church, Who came to the aid of its people being persecuted by the savages in Christ's own land.
You could have stopped at desecrated and been totally right http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crusades

The Land walked by Christ Himself.

ok that could be anywhere... lets see.. umm.. Kansas could be it.. hmm.. no wait.,. Arkansas... no.. wait.. lol.. get the point.. tell me.. the exact place Christ walked

You're partially right for once. It WAS over land. But still, so-called Christians killed people. How is that right? What about, oh I don't know..THOU SHALT NOT KILL?!

There's no way to justify killing someone!! If there is,then you can break every Commandment by saying you did it in the name of God.
Yes, there is. Killing alone is not a sin, if done for a just cause.
The commandment refers to murder, not killing justly.

You could have stopped at desecrated and been totally right http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crusades


According to that same article, they were also waged against other Christians. I wonder what our troll has to say about that.

Yes, there is. Killing alone is not a sin, if done for a just cause.
The commandment refers to murder, not killing justly.

how the hell is that killing justly if you just want Land???????? :sniper: :mp5: :gundge:

Angry Fruit Salad, he's not a troll. He is something far worse and far more insidious. He is some one who closes his eyes to fact, labeling them lies, so that his beliefs may not be swayed.

There is no reasoning with his type, no hope of honest discussion, of open debate.

Yes, there is. Killing alone is not a sin, if done for a just cause.
The commandment refers to murder, not killing justly.


It says KILL, not murder. And don't pull any of this translation bullshit. If there's something wrong with the translation, the damn thing could say "you guys are fucktards" and we wouldn't know, so it really doesn't matter.

how the hell is that killing justly if you just want Land???????? :sniper: :mp5: :gundge:
According to the Bible killing foreigners isnt a sin. So the hijackers on 911 completely innocent.

how the hell is that killing justly if you just want Land???????? :sniper: :mp5: :gundge:
It was not just for land, as I have already went over, yet you seem to have short-term memory problems.

Angry Fruit Salad, he's not a troll. He is something far worse and far more insidious. He is some one who closes his eyes to fact, labeling them lies, so that his beliefs may not be swayed.

There is no reasoning with his type, no hope of honest discussion, of open debate.


Even a can of raid won't get rid of them...will it? *sigh* Well, if he's not a troll, we need a new name for him..

It was not just for land, as I have already went over, yet you seem to have short-term memory problems.

so do you... what about where Christ walked.. i want to know the exact place.. or are you to stupid to know??

Even a can of raid won't get rid of them...will it? *sigh* Well, if he's not a troll, we need a new name for him..

This is from tormented_death... cant confirm his email yet::::::

"We already have a name for him as you have stated earlier...."fucktard"

This is from tormented_death... cant confirm his email yet::::::

"We already have a name for him as you have stated earlier...."fucktard"


oh, but that's bad English...let's give him a nice acronym or something..

I believe the term most appropriate is ...fanatic.

and he is semi correct on one thing the proper translation of the term in the 10 Commandments is murder, not kill.
The RC church, and pretty much agreed to by the various other Christian denominations , has the theory of 'just war'.


Oh, Angry Fruit Salad and all others- Happy Solstice!

I believe the term most appropriate is ...fanatic.

and he is semi correct on one thing the proper translation of the term in the 10 Commandments is murder, not kill.
The RC church, and pretty much agreed to by the various other Christian denominations , has the theory of 'just war'.


Oh, Angry Fruit Salad and all others- Happy Solstice!

Once again from who we will now call Piggy...... Warped minded Fanatic

You're partially right for once. It WAS over land. But still, so-called Christians killed people. How is that right? What about, oh I don't know..THOU SHALT NOT KILL?!

There's no way to justify killing someone!! If there is,then you can break every Commandment by saying you did it in the name of God.
Well, in his defense, it was partly a defensive war. How? It made sure that the Byzantine Empire wasn't decimated after their disasterous defeat at Manzikert, where they lost nearly all of Asia Minor. A major reason Pope Urban II called for that Crusade was to aid the Byzantines.

Even a can of raid won't get rid of them...will it? *sigh* Well, if he's not a troll, we need a new name for him..
Monomaniac- a person with a Pathological obsession with one idea or subject.
# Intent concentration on or exaggerated enthusiasm for a single subject or idea

This is from tormented_death... cant confirm his email yet::::::

"We already have a name for him as you have stated earlier...."fucktard"
Wow, how are we surviving here without intelligent folks like that? :rolleyes:

I believe the term most appropriate is ...fanatic.

and he is semi correct on one thing the proper translation of the term in the 10 Commandments is murder, not kill.
The RC church, and pretty much agreed to by the various other Christian denominations , has the theory of 'just war'.


Oh, Angry Fruit Salad and all others- Happy Solstice!


Thank you very much! (I should be in ritual right now...but I'm wasting time with you guys...damn you should feel special)

Personally, there is no such thing as 'just war'. Human payback may be a bitch, but divine payback is a cosmic bitch. The Goddess doesn't have to stoop to making humans bend to her will -- nature does it for her ^_^

Raven_Moonfire - I certainly hope I'm not the one you are calling Piggy :D

Well, in his defense, it was partly a defensive war. How? It made sure that the Byzantine Empire wasn't decimated after their disasterous defeat at Manzikert, where they lost nearly all of Asia Minor. A major reason Pope Urban II called for that Crusade was to aid the Byzantines.

Nonetheless, it's still a war, and they decided to plaster their God's name all over it. It's their own fault ^_^

Wow, how are we surviving here without intelligent folks like that? :rolleyes:

From tormented_death once again::::
intelligent folks... im not the one sitting here dodging questions and the ones i do answer, i answer in complete stupidity. :headbang:


from me: why are you not answering my question as to where did Christ walk??? :confused:

The important thing is they one because god was on their side. Wait did they win?

From tormented_death once again::::
intelligent folks... im not the one sitting here dodging questions and the ones i do answer, i answer in complete stupidity. :headbang:
Wow more revelations from the tormented "prophet." :rolleyes:


from me: why are you not answering my question as to where did Christ walk??? :confused:
Don't play a fool, pagan.

Nonetheless, it's still a war, and they decided to plaster their God's name all over it. It's their own fault ^_^
But it was a war justified by Christianity, as it was mostly defensive. The Muslims were huge expansionists, and sought to change the political and religious landscape whereever they went. Does it not surprise you that someone would act in self defense? Besides, as I stated, defensive wars are wholly justified by Christianity.

The important thing is they one because god was on their side. Wait did they win?

It's not that "God" was on their side. They didn't exactly win,though.

Wow more revelations from the tormented "prophet." :rolleyes:



Don't play a fool, pagan.

From Tormented_death::::::
I love being a prophet.....just like...ummmm...what was that dudes name...umm....oh yeah...I think they called him....jebus or something like that



from me:::::::
how am I a fool when you can't even tell me where christ came from...or what land he walked on

But it was a war justified by Christianity, as it was mostly defensive. The Muslims were huge expansionists, and sought to change the political and religious landscape whereever they went. Does it not surprise you that someone would act in self defense? Besides, as I stated, defensive wars are wholly justified by Christianity.


I don't care that it was justified by Christianity. That's not what I'm trying to say. I understand that it was a defensive war. I just don't see the point in trying to claim that it was a "holy war." I mean, it's not exactly nice to kill people...the least you can do is not advertise that you're killing someone in your God's name..kinda turns people away, you know.

from me: why are you not answering my question as to where did Christ walk??? :confused:
He was born in Bethleham because they had to be born in the place of their ancestors. He was raised in Galile by the sea. He was kicked out of Galile and traveled back down to Jeruselum where he died. see image


http://www.bible.ca/maps/maps-ministry-of-jesus.gif

Most welcome Angry Fruit Salad, and LOL of course I feel special.

Here are the basics of Just War:

Principles of the Just War
*A just war can only be waged as a last resort.
All non-violent options must be exhausted
before the use of force can be justified.
*A war is just only if it is waged by a legitimate authority.
Even just causes cannot be served by actions taken by individuals or groups
who do not constitute an authority
sanctioned by whatever the society and outsiders to the
society deem legitimate.
*A just war can only be fought to redress a wrong suffered.
For example, self-defense against an armed attack is
always considered to be a just cause (although the justice
of the cause is not sufficient--see point #4).
Further, a just war can only be fought with "right"
intentions: the only permissible objective of a just war is to
redress the injury.
*A war can only be just if it is fought with a reasonable
chance of success. Deaths and injury incurred in a hopeless
cause are not morally justifiable.
*The ultimate goal of a just war is to re-establish peace.
More specifically, the peace established after the war must
be preferable to the peace that would have prevailed if the
war had not been fought.
*The violence used in the war must be proportional to the
injury suffered. States are prohibited from using force not
necessary to attain the limited objective of addressing the
injury suffered.
*The weapons used in war must discriminate between
combatants and non-combatants. Civilians are never
permissible targets of war, and every effort must be taken
to avoid killing civilians. The deaths of civilians are justified
only if they are unavoidable victims of a deliberate attack
on a military target.

Raven_Moonfire - I certainly hope I'm not the one you are calling Piggy :D


no I'm calling tormented_death piggy cause he is sitting right next to me and can't confirm his e-mail yet


from tormented death:::::::;
my nickname is officialy being spread across the web through meaningless conversation that I originaly had nothing to do with.....how fun

It's not that "God" was on their side. They didn't exactly win,though.
That was a rheatoical question but, Okay

That was a rheatoical question but, Okay


he, sorry about that! I'm getting a little post-happy now, since Defensor MORON can't seem to find his way out.

He was born in Bethleham because they had to be born in the place of their ancestors. He was raised in Galile by the sea. He was kicked out of Galile and traveled back down to Jeruselum where he died. see image


http://www.bible.ca/maps/maps-ministry-of-jesus.gif


weren't those all places of the jews???????? so wouldn't that make jesus jewish??????? so would not jesus be damned if every one but "chrisitans" are damned

I don't care that it was justified by Christianity. That's not what I'm trying to say. I understand that it was a defensive war. I just don't see the point in trying to claim that it was a "holy war." I mean, it's not exactly nice to kill people...the least you can do is not advertise that you're killing someone in your God's name..kinda turns people away, you know.
Hey, it worked. The Muslims actually occupied Rome for a little while, with the Pope in it. They could have called it "a dream vacation on the front", and many people would sign up. Why? Because they aimed at the heart of Christianity, and obviously, Christians would be quite resentful of that. After all, Christianity played a bigger role in Europe than even Islam did in Arabia. It was life to Europeans.

*The ultimate goal of a just war is to re-establish peace.
More specifically, the peace established after the war must
be preferable to the peace that would have prevailed if the
war had not been fought.

Peace? Looks like that never happened.

But it was a war justified by Christianity, as it was mostly defensive. The Muslims were huge expansionists, and sought to change the political and religious landscape whereever they went. Does it not surprise you that someone would act in self defense? Besides, as I stated, defensive wars are wholly justified by Christianity.

And wasn't the Christian expansion into Europe the same? As well into the Americas, Asia, and Africa?

*Blink, Blink* I think DF's blasted map broke the thread!

*Blink, Blink* I think DF's blasted map broke the thread!

LOL

And wasn't the Christian expansion into Europe the same? As well into the Americas, Asia, and Africa?
Sure it was. But the resistance against Christianity was unorganized, as was most of the resistence against Islam. But the two religions were organized and widely followed, so when they clashed, they toed and froed a lot. It's a dog-eat-dog world out there, and only the strongest survive.

Okay, so here are our troll's characteristics:

Does not respond to reason.

Changes the subject whenever he gets backed into a corner.

Appears to be a religious fanatic.

Travels alone.




did I miss anything?

Okay, so here are our troll's characteristics:

Does not respond to reason.

Changes the subject whenever he gets backed into a corner.

Appears to be a religious fanatic.

Travels alone.




did I miss anything?
Monomaniac http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=monomaniac

Monomaniac http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=monomaniac


oops! Okay, so he's a monomaniac too.

Okay, so here are our troll's characteristics:

Does not respond to reason.

Changes the subject whenever he gets backed into a corner.

Appears to be a religious fanatic.

Travels alone.




did I miss anything?


From Tormented_death:::::::::::;
ummmm....hold on going over things real quick.........oh yeah....he leaves when he doesn't know the answer to a question....or have you covered that already.....I can't remember.....I never could get thing straight :headbang:


from me:::::: he is funny.. not funny haha.. funny queer *taken form Slingblade*

From Tormented_death:::::::::::;
ummmm....hold on going over things real quick.........oh yeah....he leaves when he doesn't know the answer to a question....or have you covered that already.....I can't remember.....I never could get thing straight :headbang:


from me:::::: ummm he is queer


That would be an insult to homosexuals, Raven. We don't want your friend at work getting upset, do we? *wink* *cough*Larry*cough*

From Tormented_death:::::::::::;
ummmm....hold on going over things real quick.........oh yeah....he leaves when he doesn't know the answer to a question....or have you covered that already.....I can't remember.....I never could get thing straight :headbang:

More revelations from the moronic prophet of idiocy... :rolleyes:

oops! Okay, so he's a monomaniac too.
Having fun yet? :rolleyes:

Most welcome Angry Fruit Salad, and LOL of course I feel special.

Here are the basics of Just War:


so Defensor's 'attacks' against us don't even follow the principles of a just war...should we tell his "God"?

More revelations from the moronic prophet of idiocy... :rolleyes:


Go any farther with that and it could be worth reporting..

so Defensor's 'attacks' against us don't even follow the principles of a just war...should we tell his "God"?
My "attacks?"

My "attacks?"


Yes. your insistence that we are devil-worshippers, but mostly your continued presence in my thread. I'd REALLY appreciate it if you'd back the fuck off. ^_^

Go any farther with that and it could be worth reporting..
Worth reporting? The baseless insults that you, Raven, and his mysterious prophet have been spewing out have far crossed the line of decency.

Having fun yet? :rolleyes:

Tell me Defensor.. do you have anythign better to do.... you know now that i think of it.. you probably dont.. you are probably enjoying tis attnetion thinking it is cool to piuss so many off.. yet you yourself know nothing.. everyone else is right.. you cant get out of a corner.. everyone else can.. so.. tell me.. is your God so great he cant even save you by giving you the brains to think yourself out of your own predicaments that you yourself get yourself stuck into?

More revelations from the moronic prophet of idiocy... :rolleyes:




from tormented_death:::::::::::::::;;;;;;



yeah...I'm a moronic prophit of idiocy :headbang: wait....arn't you more of an idiot for not knowing all of your facts.....hmm...lets see....won't answer ravens question.....changes subject when gets backed into a corner he is to stupid to get out of....yeah that sounds to me like your more of the idiot...