NationStates Jolt Archive

you have claimed the vatican is not the catholic church.the church of peter,now i ask you.how am i supposed to find a church of peter(i think this term works for now) when they are quite nearly extinct.

and since one can only be saved by a orthodox church yes.isnt this quite the counondrum.
An "orthodox" church?

Are not bishops ordained through Papal authority.
Through God...

So who's ready for New Year's Day--the anniversary of Jesus's circumcision! That's right, Defensor. Billions of people all over the world are marking the celebration of a Jewish tradition. You might want to call of your KKK meeting on January 1st...

Through God...It seems, then, that you disagree with the Code of Canon Law:No bishop is permitted to consecrate anyone a bishop unless it is first evident that there is a pontifical mandate.
http://www.vatican.va/archive/ENG1104/__P3O.HTM
Also, you apparently disagree with the Catechism of the Catholic Church:[...]In our day, the lawful ordination of a bishop requires a special intervention of the Bishop of Rome, because he is the supreme visible bond of the communion of the particular Churches in the one Church and the guarantor of their freedom.
http://www.vatican.va/archive/ENG0015/__P4U.HTM[...] As successors of the apostles and members of the college, the bishops share in the apostolic responsibility and mission of the whole Church under the authority of the Pope, successor of St. Peter.
http://www.vatican.va/archive/ENG0015/__P4Z.HTM
And most importantly:"The college or body of bishops has no authority unless united with the Roman Pontiff, Peter's successor, as its head." As such, this college has "supreme and full authority over the universal Church; but this power cannot be exercised without the agreement of the Roman Pontiff."
http://www.vatican.va/archive/ENG0015/__P2A.HTM

If you go by the Canon Law and the Catechism of the Catholic Church, bishops have no authority unless there is a true Pope and the particular bishops are "united" with him.

It seems, then, that you disagree with the Code of Canon Law:
Also, you apparently disagree with the Catechism of the Catholic Church:
And most importantly:

If you go by the Canon Law and the Catechism of the Catholic Church, bishops have no authority unless there is a true Pope and the particular bishops are "united" with him.

We are already pretty sure that DF is just a troll, masquerading as a Catholic - since he seems to have little clue about how Catholicism 'works', and even less clue about scripture.

He has yet to post a single response that has any evidence.... come to think of it, all of his posts have pretty much been "yes, it is", "no, it isn't", or "I know you are, but what am I?"

I wouldn't hold my breath waiting for a sensible response from him, if I were you.

Darn, I missed the central one from the Code of Canon Law:The college of bishops, whose head is the Supreme Pontiff and whose members are bishops by virtue of sacramental consecration and hierarchical communion with the head and members of the college and in which the apostolic body continues, together with its head and never without this head, is also the subject of supreme and full power offer the universal Church.
http://www.vatican.va/archive/ENG1104/__P17.HTM
Unless, of course, you disagree with the Constitución dogmática Lumen Gentium (http://www.vatican.va/archive/hist_councils/ii_vatican_council/documents/vat-ii_const_19641121_lumen-gentium_sp.html) and thus with Pope Paul VI.

I wouldn't hold my breath waiting for a sensible response from him, if I were you.Well, it took me a whole 13 minutes to Google these up, so I'm not too bothered if he keeps ignoring me. I just like poking huge fucking holes into arguments as ridiculous as those.

If he really is just a troll masquerading as a Catholic, and I think I agree with that assertion, he really needs to try harder. I've never met or discussed with a Catholic person in my life, and I would be much better at perverting that particular religion.

It seems, then, that you disagree with the Code of Canon Law:
Also, you apparently disagree with the Catechism of the Catholic Church:
And most importantly:

If you go by the Canon Law and the Catechism of the Catholic Church, bishops have no authority unless there is a true Pope and the particular bishops are "united" with him.
While there are some essential truths there, both of those sources are Modernist.

So who's ready for New Year's Day--the anniversary of Jesus's circumcision! That's right, Defensor. Billions of people all over the world are marking the celebration of a Jewish tradition. You might want to call of your KKK meeting on January 1st...
Ignoring the rest of your idiotic post:
Why would I have a meeting with the wicked liberalist "KKK?"

We are already pretty sure that DF is just a troll, masquerading as a Catholic - since he seems to have little clue about how Catholicism 'works', and even less clue about scripture.

He has yet to post a single response that has any evidence.... come to think of it, all of his posts have pretty much been "yes, it is", "no, it isn't", or "I know you are, but what am I?"

I wouldn't hold my breath waiting for a sensible response from him, if I were you.
All I have stated is Truth.

While there are some essential truths there, both of those sources are Modernist.To say that the Code of Canon Law is Modernist is to say that every single Pope since the late 4th century was a Modernist, since the original CoCL codified in 1917 is nothing but a collection of the decretals of those Popes. Perhaps you should close this poll and start a new one, with only pre-366 CE Popes as options (Pope Liberius and earlier).

Ignoring the rest of your idiotic post:
Why would I have a meeting with the wicked liberalist "KKK?"

What's wrong. Can't admit that Jesus was Jewish?

To say that the Code of Canon Law is Modernist is to say that every single Pope since the late 4th century was a Modernist, since the original CoCL codified in 1917 is nothing but a collection of the decretals of those Popes. Perhaps you should close this poll and start a new one, with only pre-366 CE Popes as options (Pope Liberius and earlier).
You did not source the Pio-Benedictine Code of Canon Law, but the Novus Ordo 1983 "code of canon law."

All I have stated is Truth.

Which would count as a 'yes, it is" post.

Seriously Df, how about you explain how Jesus was in Cana, and wandering in the wilderness for forty days AT THE SAME TIME.

Once you've explained that, I've got hundreds more lined up...

You did not source the Pio-Benedictine Code of Canon Law, but the Novus Ordo 1983 "code of canon law."I did, however, quote parts from the 1983 Code of Canon Law which have not changed at all from the 1917 version. You called those parts Modernist, thus you're calling all Popes since 366 CE Modernist.

I have already stated one thus far... Not that such is required.

As this is hard to figure out without more of the context, we were discussing the issue of intercession and whether Mary interceded for anyone in any way that is different than you and I interceding for each other.

I'm assuming you last comment is referring to the issue of "Catholic tradition" being considered sufficient authority on its own to justify anything. Have you considered what Jesus said to the priests and Levites regarding their use of tradition to make void the law of God? See Matt. 15:1-9.

My problem with the idea of traditions is that whenever they contradict scripture, which tells us to pray to Christ and or the Father directly, to call no man(like say the pope) father or rabbi and names Christ as the only intercessor necessary for man's salvation, it is the tradition that is wrong, not scripture.

If you said that we are to intercede/pray on behalf of each other, I'd agree that it was scriptural, but to pray to someone who is dead as one would pray to a deity is to have other God's. As for me, "I will pray to the Lord my God from whence cometh my help."

All I have stated is Truth.

Oh, so you're the "True Pope". I get it now, it is you that are infallible...

What's wrong. Can't admit that Jesus was Jewish?

And even if you want to argue that Jesus being half God and all makes things different, Mary, Peter, James, John, Paul were all Jews and in Paul's case even proud Jews...

That's pretty much what I thought, but this argument depends on us accepting the literal truth of the shepherds being present at the birth (were they some kind of substitute midwives?) - anyhow, I'm personally fimrly of the belief that the date of the Birth of Jesus was set so as o capitalise on already pre-existent mid-winter festivals and pagan celebrations.
I was thinking that the "while shepards watched their flocks by night", was an indicator of season. They wouldn't be in a stable watching someone give birth if they were out watching their flocks...

Hello Defensor Fidei,
Are you a Vatican 1 Catholic? I'm Catholic as well but I don't consider myself to be a Vatican 1 Catholic, though I really don't know that many differences between 1 and 2 except allowing the mass to be in the common language. I do support the death penalty though I don't know why Vatican 2 condemned it. Could you explain why you dislike Vatican 2? Hopefully I can learn why there is this sad split among Catholics.

Hello Defensor Fidei,
Are you a Vatican 1 Catholic? I'm Catholic as well but I don't consider myself to be a Vatican 1 Catholic, though I really don't know that many differences between 1 and 2 except allowing the mass to be in the common language. I do support the death penalty though I don't know why Vatican 2 condemned it. Could you explain why you dislike Vatican 2? Hopefully I can learn why there is this sad split among Catholics.
I think DF's been banned, he hasn't been around.
(err, anybody have info on this?)

Also, all he'll do is tell you you're damned unless you agree with him.

Hello Defensor Fidei,
Are you a Vatican 1 Catholic? I'm Catholic as well but I don't consider myself to be a Vatican 1 Catholic, though I really don't know that many differences between 1 and 2 except allowing the mass to be in the common language. I do support the death penalty though I don't know why Vatican 2 condemned it. Could you explain why you dislike Vatican 2? Hopefully I can learn why there is this sad split among Catholics.

Hey Commando@,
Cool to see you out and about here.

Defensor has some really strong opinions and came under pretty heavy criticism. He may have even been banned, but I'm not sure about that. I haven't seen him out and about in quite a while. You may not get much of a response.

I think DF's been banned, he hasn't been around.
(err, anybody have info on this?)

Also, all he'll do is tell you you're damned unless you agree with him.

Yup: the nation Defensor Fidei was deleted, as was his previous nation Tenete Traditiones. However, he still has at least two surviving nations: Tenete Traditiones II and Jemell.

Yup: the nation Defensor Fidei was deleted, as was his previous nation Tenete Traditiones. However, he still has at least two surviving nations: Tenete Traditiones II and Jemell.
Is he still posting?

Hey Commando@,
Cool to see you out and about here.

Defensor has some really strong opinions and came under pretty heavy criticism. He may have even been banned, but I'm not sure about that. I haven't seen him out and about in quite a while. You may not get much of a response.

Hey Personal responsibilit whats up? Good to see you here as well. I just got your message, I'll reply shortly :) .

Anyway I just saw this topic and about how he kept mentioning heresy so I figured he must be a Vatican 1 type. Then I saw how he thinks killing the Jews is the greatest thing ever so now I think he is just plain sick.

Is he still posting?

I haven't seen him doing so recently.

Well if he's reading this here's what I have to say to him(I just read the whole topic)-

Defensor,
Stop giving the church such a bad name around here. We are already going through a time of trouble, and the last thing we need are racist ignorant hypocrites like you making us look like we are still in the Dark Ages. How dare you call the inquisition holy? That was a disgrace to humanity. It was a bloodbath of fellow Christians, and you call it holy? Sicko. And do you honestly think the sun revolves around the world? Go back to 1st grade and read your science book. Also, stop saying everything the church did in the Middle Ages was justified. It wasn't. We screwed up. Big time. And why don't you actually learn about your Catholic faith? Not everything the Pope does is infallible. Only when he makes a decision on church dogma while sitting on the throne of St. Peter is it infallible. And there have only been 2 of those throughout history. So most of that crap the midieval Popes said was WRONG. Killing in the name of Christ is wrong and I bet Jesus is ashamed of you right now. And why do you hate the Jews? Jesus was a Jew buddy. And why do you want the mass to be in Latin? So people can't understand it? Sounds like a plan :rolleyes: ! Stop disgracing us. I'm a Catholic too and I go to mass every week and I'm a conservative as well. But of course to you I'm just a heretic who should be burned at the stake. Oh well.

Who was the most glorious of the Holy Roman Pontiffs of the Roman Catholic Church?

Pope Saint Peter the Rock(32-67): The Rock upon which the Church of Christ is built upon

Peter was not considered "pope", nor was there specifically a "Roman Catholic Church.

Pope Saint Gregory the Great(590-604): Codified the Gregorian Chant, Doctor of the Church

Also made it clear that he was not "pope," nor was there specifically a "Roman Catholic Church."

Pope Blessed Urban II(1088-99): Initiated the First Holy Crusade

In other words, a warmonger.

Pope Innocent III(1198-1216): First infallibly codified dogma Extra Ecclesiam Nulla Salus; continued the Crusades; expelled the Jews

In other words, an arrogant warmonger.

Pope Gregory IX(1227-41): Instituted the Papal Inquisition; declared the perfidious Jews to be subject to Christendom

Ah, completely unChrist-like.

Pope Saint Pius V(1566-72): Codified the Latin Mass and other doctrines at Council of Trent, expelled the Jews

ditto

Pope Clement VIII(1592-1605): Codified the Sacred Latin Vulgate; warned against the merciless usury of the Jews

WHy is just about every pope you listed a bigot?

Pope Urban VIII(1623-44): Combated the Copernican heresy among others

In other words, he was wrong.

Pope Leo XIII(1878-1903): Created basis for Church social doctrine, condemned religious liberty, fought Freemasonry

Condemned religious libert, eh? I think I get it now, this is a joke thread.

Never mind then.

During the Black Plauge, the European people often looked for a scapegoat to blame for the horrible plight all around them. It was always the Jews they picked. So they burned them alive and such. However the Pope, Clemet VI, publicly spoke out against these burnings and sheltered Jews in his own home. What do you have to say to that defensor? Was he a real Pope? To me he seems a lot better then half of your candidates.

My favorite was Alexander VI. Gotta love an infallible person who commits murder to get rid of opponents, sells church offices to bribe his election to pope, marries his daughter for political advantage then dicorces them to commit incest.