NationStates Jolt Archive


Who was the most glorious Vicar of Christ?

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Defensor Fidei
19-12-2004, 03:30
Who was the most glorious of the Holy Roman Pontiffs of the Roman Catholic Church?

Pope Saint Peter the Rock(32-67): The Rock upon which the Church of Christ is built upon

Pope Saint Gregory the Great(590-604): Codified the Gregorian Chant, Doctor of the Church

Pope Blessed Urban II(1088-99): Initiated the First Holy Crusade

Pope Innocent III(1198-1216): First infallibly codified dogma Extra Ecclesiam Nulla Salus; continued the Crusades; expelled the Jews

Pope Gregory IX(1227-41): Instituted the Papal Inquisition; declared the perfidious Jews to be subject to Christendom

Pope Saint Pius V(1566-72): Codified the Latin Mass and other doctrines at Council of Trent, expelled the Jews

Pope Clement VIII(1592-1605): Codified the Sacred Latin Vulgate; warned against the merciless usury of the Jews

Pope Urban VIII(1623-44): Combated the Copernican heresy among others

Pope Leo XIII(1878-1903): Created basis for Church social doctrine, condemned religious liberty, fought Freemasonry

Pope Saint Pius X(1903-14): Latter-day Crusader against the errors of Modernism

Pope Pius XI(1922-1939): Condemned ecumenism and other such heresies developing, including religious liberty

Venerable Pope Pius XII(1939-58): Exiled and condemned the growing pressure of liberal heretics within the Church (who would strangely be welcomed back in a decade's time...)
Perisa
19-12-2004, 03:32
Whichever one that got the richest off tithes and got the most number of brownies killed
Streen
19-12-2004, 03:38
St. Peter, definitely.

PJP 2, is pretty cool tho', yo.
Vittos Ordination
19-12-2004, 03:39
Whichever one that got the richest off tithes and got the most number of brownies killed

And put the most babies on pikes.
Nihilistic Beginners
19-12-2004, 03:41
I like Urban VIII, any Pope who goes about combatting scientific heresy is alright by me
Roachsylvania
19-12-2004, 03:42
Mmmm... Baby kabobs...
Defensor Fidei
19-12-2004, 03:45
Who was the most glorious of the Holy Roman Pontiffs of the Roman Catholic Church?

Pope Saint Peter the Rock(32-67): The Rock upon which the Church of Christ is built upon

Pope Saint Gregory the Great(590-604): Codified the Gregorian Chant, Doctor of the Church

Pope Blessed Urban II(1088-99): Initiated the First Holy Crusade

Pope Innocent III(1198-1216): First infallibly codified dogma Extra Ecclesiam Nulla Salus; continued the Crusades; expelled the Jews

Pope Gregory IX(1227-41): Instituted the Papal Inquisition; declared the perfidious Jews to be subject to Christendom

Pope Saint Pius V(1566-72): Codified the Latin Mass and other doctrines at Council of Trent, expelled the Jews

Pope Clement VIII(1592-1605): Codified the Sacred Latin Vulgate; warned against the merciless usury
of the Jews

Pope Urban VIII(1623-44): Combated the Copernican heresy among others

Pope Leo XIII(1878-1903): Created basis for Church social doctrine, fought Freemasonry

Pope Saint Pius X(1903-14): Latter-day Crusader against the errors of Modernism, including ecumenism

Just for reference:

Pope Pius XI(1922-1939): Condemned ecumenism and other such heresies developing

Venerable Pope Pius XII(1939-58 ): Exiled and condemned the growing pressure of liberal heretics within the Church (who would strangely be welcomed back in a decade's time...)
Gnostikos
19-12-2004, 03:46
We already established that it's the one who put the most babies on pikes. God, keep up with the times, man.
Andaluciae
19-12-2004, 03:50
Innocent III, wasn't he the guy behind the first crusade? He certainly doesn't get my vote.
Streen
19-12-2004, 03:50
So, Defensor Fidei, I'm assuming you're one of the breakaway Catholic types? Or maybe you're just trying to give all Catholics a bad name? Because you're doing a heck of a job at it.
Reconditum
19-12-2004, 03:52
Hahahaha!

Um, this is a joke, right? :confused:

Edit:
Pope Gregory IX(1227-41): Instituted the Papal Inquisition; declared the perfidious Jews to be subject to Christendom

Oooh. I like this guy. Inquisition = teh r0xx0r. :rolleyes:
Vittos Ordination
19-12-2004, 03:53
We already established that it's the one who put the most babies on pikes. God, keep up with the times, man.

Pope Clement VIII invented the puppy guillotine, so he gets a lot of points, as well.
Reconditum
19-12-2004, 03:54
Pope Pius XII(1939-58)

Gotta be this guy. Anyone who stood by and did nothing during the Holocaust gets my vote for sure. :headbang:
Defensor Fidei
19-12-2004, 03:55
Innocent III, wasn't he the guy behind the first crusade? He certainly doesn't get my vote.
No, if you had even read my first post...
Pope Innocent III called later Crusades, as well as the Fourth Lateran Council
Nihilistic Beginners
19-12-2004, 03:57
Go Urban VIII....The earth is flat...the sun revolves around the earth
Defensor Fidei
19-12-2004, 03:57
Gotta be this guy. Anyone who stood by and did nothing during the Holocaust gets my vote for sure. :headbang:
I originally included him as well as Pius XI, but this forum only allows 10 poll choices....
Vittos Ordination
19-12-2004, 03:58
How about Pope UpwardThrust I the Fluffler, where is he?
Nupax
19-12-2004, 03:58
Whoever did the voice of the Pope in family guy.
Bodies Without Organs
19-12-2004, 03:58
Go Urban VIII....The earth is flat...the sun revolves around the earth

Here we go again: the belief in a flat earth was never widely nor officially held within the Church...
Defensor Fidei
19-12-2004, 03:58
Go Urban VIII....The earth is flat...the sun revolves around the earth
No, the earth is not flat. Urban VIII defended the correct geocentric system.
New Kiev
19-12-2004, 04:00
Isn't there only supposed to be one more pope after John Paul bites the dust?
Smeagol-Gollum
19-12-2004, 04:00
Damn, I was hoping to vote for one of the Medicis...
or the possibly only legendary Pope Joan...
...can't you expand your list of candidates?
Defensor Fidei
19-12-2004, 04:01
I originally included Pius XI and Pius XII, but this forum does not allow any more than 10 poll choices...
Andaluciae
19-12-2004, 04:04
Isn't there only supposed to be one more pope after John Paul bites the dust?
hm?
Streen
19-12-2004, 04:06
No, the earth is not flat. Urban VIII defended the correct geocentric system.
So, for how long have you hated Catholics?

Isn't there only supposed to be one more pope after John Paul bites the dust?
lol, where did you hear that? If there's supposed to be only one more pope, then that would mean that that pope, according to Catholic theology, would reign over what is popularly known as the 'End Times' aka the end of humanity.
New Kiev
19-12-2004, 04:07
I heard that according to some old prophecy, there is only supposed to be one more pope after John Paul.
Reconditum
19-12-2004, 04:09
No, the earth is not flat. Urban VIII defended the correct geocentric system.

Oh, silly me. And here I was thinking that the Earth orbited the sun. Tell me, my good man, how far away from us does the sun orbit?

So, for how long have you hated Catholics?

Long time, it would seem. I'm assuming this is all one big joke. Play along. You'll enjoy yourself more. :)
Streen
19-12-2004, 04:11
I heard that according to some old prophecy, there is only supposed to be one more pope after John Paul.
Whoever told you that is either terribly mistaken or lying through their teeth. That is definitely not Catholic teaching.
Vittos Ordination
19-12-2004, 04:11
No, the earth is not flat. Urban VIII defended the correct geocentric system.

:confused: :confused: :confused: :confused: :confused: :confused: :confused:
Defensor Fidei
19-12-2004, 04:17
Oh, silly me. And here I was thinking that the Earth orbited the sun. Tell me, my good man, how far away from us does the sun orbit?

And the sun and the moon stood still, till the people revenged themselves of their enemies. Is not this written in the book of the just? So the sun stood still in the midst of heaven, and hasted not to go down the space of one day.
--Josue xXIII
Reconditum
19-12-2004, 04:19
Er, you didn't answer my question. Hell, that quote didn't even mention cubits anywhere. You're just not trying very hard, are you?
Vittos Ordination
19-12-2004, 04:19
I think the sun is pretty neat, myself.

Always keeping us warm and giving pretty ladies suntans.

I Heart The Sun
Streen
19-12-2004, 04:19
Long time, it would seem. I'm assuming this is all one big joke. Play along. You'll enjoy yourself more. :)
He is deceiving people, however, and increasing hatred of Catholicism with what he is doing. Not everyone knows it is a 'joke' (it in fact isn't a joke as that is not his intention) and that's where the problem is. To resort to deceptions to bolster your cause is one of the lowest forms of persuasion.

Let me just make it clear: Defensor Fidei is a fraud! or a hell of an ignoramus.
Nihilistic Beginners
19-12-2004, 04:20
And the sun and the moon stood still, till the people revenged themselves of their enemies. Is not this written in the book of the just? So the sun stood still in the midst of heaven, and hasted not to go down the space of one day.
--Josue xXIII

Reconditum...he has you there.... can't refute that....
New Anthrus
19-12-2004, 04:21
Saint Peter gets my vote. He did a lot to make sure Christianity didn't die, or even simply became the "slave religion" Roman officials were warning about.
Defensor Fidei
19-12-2004, 04:21
Er, you didn't answer my question. Hell, that quote didn't even mention cubits anywhere. You're just not trying very hard, are you?
"Cubits" need not be mentioned when referring to the nature of the universe.
Reconditum
19-12-2004, 04:24
Good lord, man. I'm not denying what you say. I just want to know how far away the sun is. Is that such a hard question to answer.

Reconditum...he has you there.... can't refute that....

I know. The simplicity and beauty of his logic has reduced any arguments I could make to shambles.

Defensor Fidei is a fraud! <-- You have to imagine it in really big letters though

Shhhhh! You aren't supposed to tell anyone.
Defensor Fidei
19-12-2004, 04:37
He is deceiving people, however, and increasing hatred of Catholicism with what he is doing. Not everyone knows it is a 'joke' (it in fact isn't a joke as that is not his intention) and that's where the problem is. To resort to deceptions to bolster your cause is one of the lowest forms of persuasion.

Let me just make it clear: Defensor Fidei is a fraud! or a hell of an ignoramus.
Are you denying the facts?
Streen
19-12-2004, 04:42
Are you denying the facts?
I deny no facts. It's a nasty little habit I tried really hard to get myself into.

So, if you have a proof of something, I will listen. However, I am not swayed by hate, so maybe you ought to try something else. (Btw, I'm sure you're a fan of landoverbaptist.org -- they're right up your alley, that is if you are indeed a fraud. If you are not, then my apologies.)
New Kanteletar
19-12-2004, 04:45
Reconditum...he has you there.... can't refute that....
I believe the point is that Defensor Fidei said that Urban VIII supported the idea of a geocentric system, when it is in fact heliocentric.

My favourite pope is John Paul II. Whoops sorry Galileo, turns out you were right the earth isn't at the center of the solar system. Sorry about the whole house arrest and threatening with excommunication thing. No hard feelings, right?
Defensor Fidei
19-12-2004, 04:48
I believe the point is that Defensor Fidei said that Urban VIII supported the idea of a geocentric system, when it is in fact heliocentric. Whoops sorry Galileo, turns out you were right the earth isn't at the center of the solar system. Sorry about the whole house arrest and threatening with excommunication thing. No hard feelings, right?
The earth is the center of the universe, and Galileo was a heretic.
Vittos Ordination
19-12-2004, 04:50
The earth is the center of the universe, and Galileo was a heretic.

hehehehe :)
The Black Forrest
19-12-2004, 04:50
And the sun and the moon stood still, till the people revenged themselves of their enemies. Is not this written in the book of the just? So the sun stood still in the midst of heaven, and hasted not to go down the space of one day.
--Josue xXIII

That doesn't prove anything. Just says the sun and moon didn't move. It's a rather gigantic stretch to say this says the earth is the center of our universe.

Well men think it is. Heck most probably think they are the center of the universe.

Sorry but you have to try better.
New Kanteletar
19-12-2004, 04:52
The earth is the center of the universe, and Galileo was a heretic.

So gravitation only works properly on everything except our solar system, gotcha.
Nihilistic Beginners
19-12-2004, 04:53
Defensor Fidei could you please tell us who you think is the most fabulous vicar of christ?
The Black Forrest
19-12-2004, 04:53
My favourite pope is John Paul II.

Saw him at the Vatican. Decent fellow.
New Kanteletar
19-12-2004, 04:54
That doesn't prove anything. Just says the sun and moon didn't move. It's a rather gigantic stretch to say this says the earth is the center of our universe.

Well men think it is. Heck most probably think they are the center of the universe.

Sorry but you have to try better.
It actually implies that the sun is at the center of at lest our solar system. "The sun stood still in the midst of heavn...". Midst, ie middle, ie center.
New Granada
19-12-2004, 04:56
Whichever one reigned the shortest ammount of time owing to death.
Reconditum
19-12-2004, 04:56
It actually implies that the sun is at the center of at lest our solar system. "The sun stood still in the midst of heavn...". Midst, ie middle, ie center.
Yeah, but that's hardly worth mention in the Bible. If it was going to do that anyway why would there have been any mention of it in the first place?

GEOCENTRISM FOREVER!!!!

:D
Defensor Fidei
19-12-2004, 04:56
It actually implies that the sun is at the center of at lest our solar system. "The sun stood still in the midst of heavn...". Midst, ie middle, ie center.
That's where it stopped temporarily with God's order as it revolved around the earth.
Reconditum
19-12-2004, 04:58
Oooh. Good point that one.

DF: 1
Heretics: 0

Go DF!!
New Kanteletar
19-12-2004, 05:01
That's where it stopped temporarily with God's order as it revolved around the earth.
...Or you could say that God's order stopped the entire cosmos from moving (a better display of omnipotence in my opinion).
Nihilistic Beginners
19-12-2004, 05:02
You guys should just quit before you make fools out of yourselves....don't you realize that DF has the Most Holy Official Latrine Dogma of the Holy Apostolic Faith to back him up?

NB
President of the Geocentric Society
Reconditum
19-12-2004, 05:15
Hey! No fair! I wanted to be president. Can I be the "Official Purveyor of Dogma" or something like that at least?
The Black Forrest
19-12-2004, 05:18
That's where it stopped temporarily with God's order as it revolved around the earth.

No all the passage states is that the sun remained in the sky.

Such action is also performed by stoping the earth rotation around the sun.

Sorry passage does not state the lay out of the galaxy.
The Black Forrest
19-12-2004, 05:24
It actually implies that the sun is at the center of at lest our solar system. "The sun stood still in the midst of heavn...". Midst, ie middle, ie center.

Again that proves nothing. The center of the sky is also optimal lighting.
Nihilistic Beginners
19-12-2004, 05:25
No alls the passage states is that the sun was held in the sky.

Such action is also performed by stoping the earth rotation around the sun.

Sorry passage does not state the lay out of the galaxy.

I can't believe you are actually debating this....
Streen
19-12-2004, 05:30
It could also prove that God changed the speed of light for a day in a certain sector of the galaxy to increase the time of the sun in a particular position, and then increased it rapidly so that night came suddenly.
The Black Forrest
19-12-2004, 05:32
I can't believe you are actually debating this....

Debating the absurdity of it or the the truth of it?

I am sick and bored.

Besides, it's fun to hear what people add into passages.
Kinda Sensible people
19-12-2004, 05:32
My vote for the most wonderful murderor in the name of christ definantly goes to whomever it was who decided to start the inquisition. Doesn't get much holier than to add holy days expecially for torturing heretics. After all, nothing is holier than do to others as you would have them do unto you. Methinks these Popes had a death wish or something...
Defensor Fidei
19-12-2004, 05:34
No all the passage states is that the sun remained in the sky.

Such action is also performed by stoping the earth rotation around the sun.

Sorry passage does not state the lay out of the galaxy.
No, Josue specifically states that the sun and the moon were ordered not to move:

Then Josue spoke to the Lord, in the day that he delivered the Amorrhite in the sight of the children of Israel, and he said before them: Move not, O sun, toward Gabaon, nor thou, O moon, toward the valley of Ajalon.
And the sun and the moon stood still, till the people revenged themselves of their enemies. Is not this written in the book of the just? So the sun stood still in the midst of heaven, and hasted not to go down the space of one day.
--Josue xXII-XIII
The Black Forrest
19-12-2004, 05:41
No, Josue specifically states that the sun and the moon were ordered not to move:

Then Josue spoke to the Lord, in the day that he delivered the Amorrhite in the sight of the children of Israel, and he said before them: Move not, O sun, toward Gabaon, nor thou, O moon, toward the valley of Ajalon.
And the sun and the moon stood still, till the people revenged themselves of their enemies. Is not this written in the book of the just? So the sun stood still in the midst of heaven, and hasted not to go down the space of one day.
--Josue xXII-XIII

And again stopping the earths rotation acomplishes the same thing.

You are still stretching as to how this places the earth and the sun.
Defensor Fidei
19-12-2004, 05:45
And again stopping the earths rotation acomplishes the same thing.

You are still stretching as to how this places the earth and the sun.
He specifically orders the sun and the moon not to move. He did not tell the earth not to move- because it never did move in such a way!
Streen
19-12-2004, 05:46
He specifically orders the sun and the moon not to move. He did not tell the earth not to move- because it never did move in such a way!
Ah, but God, my friend, understands relativity, while you don't know which way the apple falls.
Reconditum
19-12-2004, 05:47
And I still don't know where the sun is. :(

Here I am trying to support you and you ignore my questions. That's not very nice.

And to all of you heretics who persist in using the incorrect heliocentric paradigm, I must implore you to try and think "ouside the box". Throw off the shackles of "scientific" tyrrany and accept the glory that is god's word.
Defensor Fidei
19-12-2004, 05:47
Ah, but God, my friend, understands relativity, while you don't know which way the apple falls.
:confused: ?? :rolleyes:
The Black Forrest
19-12-2004, 05:47
Ewww Defensor Fidei I am watching something that would annoy you.

The two Mary's. It talks about the correction of the chruches misrepresentation of Mary M.

Also, mentioned the Hamadi texts....
Smeagol-Gollum
19-12-2004, 05:49
He specifically orders the sun and the moon not to move. He did not tell the earth not to move- because it never did move in such a way!

And the logic (I use the term very loosely on this occassion), or proof for such an assertion can be found where?

Please make clear reference to the fact that the present day Catholic church has no defined point of view in the realm of astrophysics in your answer.
The Black Forrest
19-12-2004, 05:50
He specifically orders the sun and the moon not to move. He did not tell the earth not to move- because it never did move in such a way!

A lack of understanding of the solar system also allows him to make the call. The probably didn't even understand the fact the eath rotates.

Saying stop the sun and moon is what they understood.
Streen
19-12-2004, 05:51
:confused: ?? :rolleyes:
If God were to set the Earth and the Sun into a parallel vector with the same magnitude, due to relativity, the Sun would be stopped in relation to Earth, although it might actually have a velocity.
Defensor Fidei
19-12-2004, 05:51
Ewww Defensor Fidei I am watching something that would annoy you.

The two Mary's. It talks about the correction of the chruches misrepresentation of Mary M.

Also, mentioned the Hamadi texts....
Does it involve the "Priory of Sion?" :rolleyes:
The Black Forrest
19-12-2004, 05:55
Does it involve the "Priory of Sion?" :rolleyes:

Yup and several people bashed the book....
Nihilistic Beginners
19-12-2004, 06:03
And I still don't know where the sun is. :(

Here I am trying to support you and you ignore my questions. That's not very nice.

And to all of you heretics who persist in using the incorrect heliocentric paradigm, I must implore you to try and think "ouside the box". Throw off the shackles of "scientific" tyrrany and accept the glory that is god's word.

Oh Reconditum...How dost thou not know...that the Sun is in the Midst of The Heavens as the Book of Josue sayeth? Surely you understand that the Most Holy Catholic Number one Son Apostilic Faith teaches verily that there is Seven heavens, The second heaven containth the stars, the moon and the Sun
The Iron Horde
19-12-2004, 06:06
Really Should have included Leo I (Turned back the Huns) and Julius II (Rstored the Papl States, commissioned Michelangelo's frescos in the Sistene Chapel)
Kinda Sensible people
19-12-2004, 06:10
Really Should have included Leo I (Turned back the Huns) and Julius II (Rstored the Papl States, commissioned Michelangelo's frescos in the Sistene Chapel)

You see they weren't into the murdering innocents thing... To be a truly great pope you must support the killlings of non-beleivers and glory in their spilled blood.
Defensor Fidei
19-12-2004, 06:13
Really Should have included Leo I (Turned back the Huns) and Julius II (Rstored the Papl States, commissioned Michelangelo's frescos in the Sistene Chapel)
For whatever reason, this forum only allows a mere ten forum options, rather limiting in effect.
Defensor Fidei
19-12-2004, 06:46
Yup and several people bashed the book....
That is?
Defensor Fidei
19-12-2004, 07:43
A lack of understanding of the solar system also allows him to make the call. The probably didn't even understand the fact the eath rotates.

Saying stop the sun and moon is what they understood.
Josue understood much more than you, having the revelation of God!
BLARGistania
19-12-2004, 07:56
DF, are you a vatican I catholic?
The Black Forrest
19-12-2004, 09:42
That is?

The DaVinci Code
Armored Ear
19-12-2004, 09:45
yeesh why did the catholics hate the jews so much? lol

Jesus was a jew, ya know.
The Black Forrest
19-12-2004, 09:45
Josue understood much more than you, having the revelation of God!

Joshua was told only what he needed to know.

If he was shown the mysteries of the universe, then he would have talked about things. Yet, he mentions nothing else of astronomy.

We can speculate all we want about what was mentioned/said/shown. It still does not prove a geocentric argument.
Defensor Fidei
19-12-2004, 16:44
DF, are you a vatican I catholic?
The Vatican Council was a Roman Catholic Council...
Defensor Fidei
19-12-2004, 17:11
The DaVinci Code
And the left-wing charismatic Judeo-Communist anti-Catholic cult, "Opus Dei"?
Conceptualists
19-12-2004, 17:14
And the left-wing charismatic Judeo-Communist anti-Catholic cult, "Opus Dei"?
Calling them left wing seems a bit strange.

But moving on. I vote for Adrian VI (even though he isn't on the poll)
Conceptualists
19-12-2004, 17:15
yeesh why did the catholics hate the jews so much? lol

Jesus was a jew, ya know.
Do not judge us all by DF.
Celtlund
19-12-2004, 17:25
Catholic bashingh post. :(
Defensor Fidei
19-12-2004, 17:42
Calling them left wing seems a bit strange.

But moving on. I vote for Adrian VI (even though he isn't on the poll)
Again I would have included much more but due to the unusually minute amount of options available, I had to narrow it down to those whose most glorious impact was most felt upon the Church...

Why Adrian VI, by the way?
Perisa
19-12-2004, 17:48
When will you Christians learn that you are all equally inferior?
Defensor Fidei
19-12-2004, 17:50
When will you Christians learn that you are all equally inferior?
To whom?
Taldaan
19-12-2004, 17:52
Personally, I'm going to vote for "other". You see, there is a Vicar far more holy than any of these Popes, a man of God unsurpassed in his faith.

http://www.premier.org.uk/engine.cfm?i=13&pwn=1&pnid=332

I apologise in advance.
The Black Forrest
19-12-2004, 17:53
And the left-wing charismatic Judeo-Communist anti-Catholic cult, "Opus Dei"?

No mention of them. Just the book.

It's funny to hear people offended by the book. Especially when the author freely admits to stretching facts and making things up to make the story flow better. Never mind the fact the cover has "A NOVEL" on it.....

Ahh well....
Perisa
19-12-2004, 17:53
To anyone who has enough wits about them to dictate their own virtues and morals instead of being ruled like sheep.
Defensor Fidei
19-12-2004, 17:54
Personally, I'm going to vote for "other". You see, there is a Vicar far more holy than any of these Popes, a man of God unsurpassed in his faith.

http://www.premier.org.uk/engine.cfm?i=13&pwn=1&pnid=332

I apologise in advance.
That is not a Vicar of Christ, but a "vicar" of the Anglican sect. :rolleyes:
Keruvalia
19-12-2004, 17:54
The earth is the center of the universe, and Galileo was a heretic.

No .... *I* am the center of the Universe. Deal with it.
Defensor Fidei
19-12-2004, 17:54
To anyone who has enough wits about them to dictate their own virtues and morals instead of being flocked like sheep.
Like protestants? :rolleyes:
Perisa
19-12-2004, 17:58
No, actually. Protestants aren't any less sheepish than Catholics. If you think you're so much better, please, tell me why?
Defensor Fidei
19-12-2004, 18:02
No, actually. Protestants aren't any less sheepish than Catholics. If you think you're so much better, please, tell me why?
Why not? Protestants "dictate their own virtues and morals" and they even found new "denominations" so other people can join them.
And then when those people have a problem, they dictate their own "denominations," too.
Legburnjuice
19-12-2004, 18:05
Again that proves nothing. The center of the sky is also optimal lighting.

Can I just say that this entry made my day? Also, this begs the question...

God = creator of universe...

God = interior decorator...? ...

God = gay as Elton John in a sweaty pit of cross-dressed geishas?!?
Perisa
19-12-2004, 18:07
Lol, right

And Catholics who don't like the Catholic church can do the same. That's what the first protestants did, but all the same, Both are bred to believe what their church and parents believe. Sure, you may have some strays and even some nonbelievers, but they're a very minute percentage. And even then the stragglers just make their own church that is slightly different from the Church they were just in.

In the end all you have is just a bunch of sheep. It's just not one Shepherd (Pope) anymore.
Defensor Fidei
19-12-2004, 18:09
Lol, right

And Catholics who don't like the Catholic church can do the same. That's what the first protestants did, but all the same, Both are bred to believe what their church and parents believe. Sure, you may have some strays and even some nonbelievers, but they're a very minute percentage. And even then the stragglers just make their own church that is slightly different from the Church they were just in.

In the end all you have is just a bunch of sheep. It's just not one Shepherd (Pope) anymore.
Yes, it is. All Christians are bound to the Roman Pontiff.
Defensor Fidei
19-12-2004, 18:23
No mention of them. Just the book.

It's funny to hear people offended by the book. Especially when the author freely admits to stretching facts and making things up to make the story flow better. Never mind the fact the cover has "A NOVEL" on it.....

Ahh well....
It claims to be "fact" within the first few pages, and has plenty of deceptions interwoven into the subpar storyline that Brown expects the everyday fool to fall for as reality.
Kinda Sensible people
19-12-2004, 18:48
Yes, it is. All Christians are bound to the Roman Pontiff.

If you're an Idealist... You could, however, accept the reality that only those who choose to be bound to the head of the catholic church are.
Conceptualists
19-12-2004, 18:48
Why Adrian VI, by the way?
He was, in my opinion, the first of the Catholic Reformation Popes. Moving towards the spiritual rahter then trying to get the Church involved in petty politics.

Also he from Utrecht, which is close to where my family originally hails from :D
Defensor Fidei
19-12-2004, 18:48
Calling them left wing seems a bit strange.

They are wicked anti-Catholic leftist servants of evil.
Defensor Fidei
19-12-2004, 18:51
He was, in my opinion, the first of the Catholic Reformation Popes. Moving towards the spiritual rahter then trying to get the Church involved in petty politics.

Also he from Utrecht, which is close to where my family originally hails from :D
Perhaps, but Saint Pius V was indeed the pope of the Reformation...
Conceptualists
19-12-2004, 18:55
Perhaps, but Saint Pius V was indeed the pope of the Reformation...
Certainly.

But remeber Adrian was only pope for around for a few months. But in that considerably short amount of time, he did a lot to start the ball rolling which allowed the later changes to made easier. However this only my opinion, and it has been a while since I did my Church history, so I really should dig out my old books.
Conceptualists
19-12-2004, 18:56
They are wicked anti-Catholic leftist servants of evil.
Pretty much my opinion of them (minus the leftist bit though). Worrying really. That we both practically believe the same thing ;)
Defensor Fidei
19-12-2004, 18:57
Certainly.

But remeber Adrian was only pope for around for a few months. But in that considerably short amount of time, he did a lot to start the ball rolling which allowed the later changes to made easier. However this only my opinion, and it has been a while since I did my Church history, so I really should dig out my old books.
He did maintain strong standing against the vile Turks in defence of Christendom.
Conceptualists
19-12-2004, 19:08
He did maintain strong standing against the vile Turks in defence of Christendom.
Sorry you just reminded me of something. Was it Pope Pius V on the papal throne at the time of Lepanto?
Defensor Fidei
19-12-2004, 19:13
Sorry you just reminded me of something. Was it Pope Pius V on the papal throne at the time of Lepanto?
I don't believe he was.
Conceptualists
19-12-2004, 19:20
I don't believe he was.
I think he was. IIRC Lepanto was in 1571 and Pope Pius V died in 1572.

Maybe I should check this stuff before I post. But what the hey.....
Defensor Fidei
19-12-2004, 19:22
I think he was. IIRC Lepanto was in 1571 and Pope Pius V died in 1572.

Maybe I should check this stuff before I post. But what the hey.....
Perhaps so, then.
Kisarazu
19-12-2004, 19:23
Perhaps so, then.
where do you live?
Defensor Fidei
19-12-2004, 19:25
where do you live?
Why?
Kisarazu
19-12-2004, 19:26
Why?
besides the fact that i wanna stalk you... i just wanna know where you live cuz i wanna know where your beliefs about jews come from. Im guessing the US south.. am i right?
Crocold
19-12-2004, 19:31
how come these guys are all Catholics they're not the only christian you know. Still far be it from me to comment on papal tyranny........
Defensor Fidei
19-12-2004, 19:33
how come these guys are all Catholics they're not the only christian you know. Still far be it from me to comment on papal tyranny........
What do you mean "not the only Christians?"
Conceptualists
19-12-2004, 19:34
how come these guys are all Catholics they're not the only christian you know. Still far be it from me to comment on papal tyranny........
Well, this may shock you. But only Catholics can be pope.

Therefore, isn't it logical that "these guys are all catholics." You may as well ask why they are all men.
Crocold
19-12-2004, 19:43
yeah but why does the greatest vicar of all time have to be Catholic. Why is the Roman Catholic Church God's church?
Conceptualists
19-12-2004, 19:45
yeah but why does the greatest vicar of all time have to be Catholic. Why is the Roman Catholic Church God's church?
"Vicar Of Christ" is a term for the Pope. In the same way that Commander in Chief of the US military forces is effectively another name for the POTUS

>>"Why is the Roman Catholic Church God's church?"

Because the Church says so ;)

Now stop your whining and convert heathen!

:)
Defensor Fidei
19-12-2004, 19:47
yeah but why does the greatest vicar of all time have to be Catholic. Why is the Roman Catholic Church God's church?
Because It is the only Church established by God Himself in Anno Domini XXXIII....
Crocold
19-12-2004, 19:48
Fair enough I didn't know that. It'll teach me for being an interfering protestant.
Defensor Fidei
19-12-2004, 19:49
Fair enough I didn't know that. It'll teach me for being an interfering protestant.
Will you convert and be saved?
Crocold
19-12-2004, 19:57
Its okay, hell looks kind of fun anyway and I can't see the problem with contraseption. Even if I can't spell it.
Defensor Fidei
19-12-2004, 20:03
Its okay, hell looks kind of fun anyway
And you've seen Hell? :rolleyes:
Crocold
19-12-2004, 20:12
Well its fairly simple. Haven is for people who enjoy the sort of things that go on in heavan. Talking to God, sleeping, watering pot plants. Hell is for people who enjoy Torture, pillaging those areas. Once you die you'll have the time of your life!
Conceptualists
19-12-2004, 20:14
Well its fairly simple. Haven is for people who enjoy the sort of things that go on in heavan. Talking to God, sleeping, watering pot plants. Hell is for people who enjoy Torture, pillaging those areas. Once you die you'll have the time of your life!
Thank you Blackadder
Crocold
19-12-2004, 20:18
I thought it answered the question
Defensor Fidei
19-12-2004, 20:20
I thought it answered the question
This is a very serious matter, not about idiotic television programs!
Crocold
19-12-2004, 20:26
I can a sure you it really isn't that important. To quote the bible, "Does it matter who follows paul" or is peter, oh bugger it lighten up a bit.
Defensor Fidei
19-12-2004, 20:27
I can a sure you it really isn't that important. To quote the bible, "Does it matter who follows paul" or is peter, oh bugger it lighten up a bit.Lighten up to what?
Kisarazu
19-12-2004, 20:28
what if the pope killed somebody.. what would happen?
Defensor Fidei
19-12-2004, 20:32
what if the pope killed somebody.. what would happen?
Who?
Defensor Fidei
19-12-2004, 20:54
I can a sure you it really isn't that important. To quote the bible, "Does it matter who follows paul" or is peter, oh bugger it lighten up a bit.
Also, what is the relevance of thy alleged quote?
Kisarazu
19-12-2004, 20:55
Who?
a normal everyday person.
Defensor Fidei
19-12-2004, 21:28
a normal everyday person.
Why would a pope commit such an act?
Haverton
19-12-2004, 21:38
besides the fact that i wanna stalk you... i just wanna know where you live cuz i wanna know where your beliefs about jews come from. Im guessing the US south.. am i right?

Hey, don't judge us all because of the Southern Baptists and the Ku Klux Klan.
Rasados
19-12-2004, 21:48
im gonna have to say peter,since the others majorly disobeyed the man's teachings.
Superpower07
19-12-2004, 22:01
Peter, 'coz he actually knew Jesus AND WAS HIS APOSTOLE

*cough*SCUMBAG (referring to DF, here)*cough*
Defensor Fidei
19-12-2004, 22:02
Peter, 'coz he actually knew Jesus AND WAS HIS APOSTOLE, you scumbag
They are all His apostles, foolish heretic!
Superpower07
19-12-2004, 22:04
They are all His apostles, foolish heretic!
You fool, not of the ORIGINAL TWELVE
Texan Hotrodders
19-12-2004, 22:05
They are all His apostles, foolish heretic!

It's not nice to flame.
Why do you not stop trolling?
Here's a helpful pic.

http://www.picdump.org/albums/dragmire/Troll_XING.jpg
Haverton
19-12-2004, 22:05
He's obviously referring to the original 12...
Superpower07
19-12-2004, 22:06
He's obviously referring to the original 12...
If those are his twelve, how come I only count 10? :D
Defensor Fidei
19-12-2004, 22:06
You fool, not of the ORIGINAL TWELVE
Judas "Iscariot," the face of the Jewish people, was one of the original Twelve too! The popes are all part of the Apostolic succession of St. Peter.
Defensor Fidei
19-12-2004, 22:07
If those are his twelve, how come I only count 10? :D
Yet again: There are only ten poll options in this forum!
Superpower07
19-12-2004, 22:09
Judas "Iscariot," the face of the Jewish people, was one of the original Twelve too! .
I've actually heard evidence that Jese actually asked Judas to turn him in.
Defensor Fidei
19-12-2004, 22:15
I've actually heard evidence that Jese actually asked Judas to turn him in.
Chapter: verse?
Defensor Fidei
19-12-2004, 22:32
He's obviously referring to the original 12...
Who?
The Empire of Jason
19-12-2004, 22:42
Hey, don't judge us all because of the Southern Baptists and the Ku Klux Klan.

The Southern Baptists are not racist. Extremely far from it, actually. As a Southern Baptist, I am offended by this statement.
Defensor Fidei
19-12-2004, 23:20
The Southern Baptists are not racist. Extremely far from it, actually. As a Southern Baptist, I am offended by this statement.
You are a Southern Heretic...
Defensor Fidei
20-12-2004, 00:26
im gonna have to say peter,since the others majorly disobeyed the man's teachings.
They have done not!
Defensor Fidei
20-12-2004, 01:37
Why are so many voting for St. Peter with no explanation?
Superpower07
20-12-2004, 01:39
Why are so many voting for St. Peter with no explanation?
'Cause we don't like you
Defensor Fidei
20-12-2004, 01:58
'Cause we don't like you
Don't make a mockery...
Superpower07
20-12-2004, 01:59
Don't make a mockery...
A mockery of you?

Of course I shan't; flaming and trolling isn't allowed, now is it? ;)
Defensor Fidei
20-12-2004, 02:04
A mockery of you?

Of course I shan't; flaming and trolling isn't allowed, now is it? ;)
From someone who quotes a Jew in his signature.... :rolleyes:
Klonmel
20-12-2004, 02:25
I voted for Peter because I like rocks.
Defensor Fidei
20-12-2004, 03:36
I voted for Peter because I like rocks.
Yet more mockery...
The Black Forrest
20-12-2004, 05:57
It claims to be "fact" within the first few pages, and has plenty of deceptions interwoven into the subpar storyline that Brown expects the everyday fool to fall for as reality.

The fact the cover and the author says fiction works against the claim.

Those that belive it true and those offended by it are somewhat simple minded.
Nihilistic Beginners
20-12-2004, 06:03
Don't make a mockery...

I like you Defensor, I don't care what other people say about you.
The Black Forrest
20-12-2004, 06:07
The Southern Baptists are not racist. Extremely far from it, actually. As a Southern Baptist, I am offended by this statement.

Well I guess it depends on where you define Souther Baptists.

I have relatives that a southern baptists and they are very racist.
Anbar
20-12-2004, 06:09
Why are so many voting for St. Peter with no explanation?

Well, I read your desciptions, and the others, quiet frankly, sounded like despicable bastards who would have made Jesus cry. Actually, Gregory sounded ok, but not quite Great enough to put him over Peter.
Bodies Without Organs
20-12-2004, 06:23
Pope Innocent III Defensor Fidei

...

Pope Saint Pius V Jemell

Voting twice in your own poll with a puppet nation? Uh-huh.
Tumonia
20-12-2004, 06:27
Pope John XII 955 A.D.,
In the bishops words:
"No honest lady dared to show herself in public, for Pope John had no respect either for single girls, married women, or widows-they were sure to be defiled by him, even on the tombs of the holy apostles, Peter and Paul."
Ellbownia
20-12-2004, 07:04
Yet more mockery...
THIS IS AN INTERNET FORUM!!! There will be mockery. And the people rejoiced. And it was good.
Goed Twee
20-12-2004, 08:22
THIS IS AN INTERNET FORUM!!! There will be mockery. And the people rejoiced. And it was good.

LOL, INTERNET!
Tumonia
20-12-2004, 08:38
And then we've got Pope Alexander VI (1492-1503) who lived in public incest with his two sister and his own daughter, Lucretia, from whom, it is said, he had a child. In 1501 he conducted a sex orgy in the Vatican.

Why aren't any of the interesting ones in the poll?
Nihilistic Beginners
20-12-2004, 08:40
And then we've got Pope Alexander VI (1492-1503) who lived in public incest with his two sister and his own daughter, Lucretia, from whom, it is said, he had a child. In 1501 he conducted a sex orgy in the Vatican.

Why aren't any of the interesting ones in the poll?

And where is Pope Joan?
Tumonia
20-12-2004, 08:46
And where is Pope Joan?

A woman pope??? Now that's a scandal!!!

At least there was no doubt that Pope John XXIII was a man...He violated 300 nuns, kept a harem of 200 girls, committed perversity with the wife of his brother, adultery with the married, incest...etc etc etc
Nihilistic Beginners
20-12-2004, 08:53
A woman pope??? Now that's a scandal!!!

At least there was no doubt that Pope John XXIII was a man...He violated 300 nuns, kept a harem of 200 girls, committed perversity with the wife of his brother, adultery with the married, incest...etc etc etc
verily dost thou not know the Legend of Pope Joan...here my goodfellow...be educated


http://www.dreamscape.com/morgana/popejoan.htm
Tumonia
20-12-2004, 09:04
verily dost thou not know the Legend of Pope Joan...here my goodfellow...be educated


http://www.dreamscape.com/morgana/popejoan.htm

I knew about the legend... I was doing the sarcasm thing (you know...all about her being hush hush while records of others going around raping nuns and having orgies survive).
But thanks for the link.
Defensor Fidei
20-12-2004, 22:14
The fact the cover and the author says fiction works against the claim.

Those that belive it true and those offended by it are somewhat simple minded.
Yes, they are. And they will instead delude themselves into thinking they are "enlightened" in true liberal fashion... :rolleyes:
Defensor Fidei
20-12-2004, 23:18
THIS IS AN INTERNET FORUM!!! There will be mockery. And the people rejoiced. And it was good.
His people do not rejoice at mockery!
Lacadaemon
20-12-2004, 23:26
DF, how comes every time I see the Pope, he is wearing that little jew hat. (You know the little white beanie). Is the Pope part Jewish or something?
Personal responsibilit
20-12-2004, 23:29
None of the above fit that title. The only Vicar of Christ is that of Christ. All others are pretenders. Peter was a disciple and a very dedicated Christian man, but even he never was nor ever cliamed to be the vicar of Christ or glorious for that matter. Humility, not pomp and pomposity should be reflected in the character of a Christian.
Defensor Fidei
20-12-2004, 23:30
DF, how comes every time I see the Pope, he is wearing that little jew hat. (You know the little white beanie). Is the Pope part Jewish or something?
When did a pope of the Catholic Church wear a "jew hat?" I assure you this does not occur....
Conceptualists
20-12-2004, 23:31
None of the above fit that title. The only Vicor of Christ is that of Christ. All others are pretenders. Peter was a disciple and a very dedicated Christian man, but even he never was nor ever cliamed to be the vicor of Christ or glorious for that matter. Humility, not pomp and pomposity should be reflected in the character of a Christian.
Just like Adrian VI ;)

Seems strange that Christ is his own vicar though.
The Black Forrest
20-12-2004, 23:31
Yes, they are. And they will instead delude themselves into thinking they are "enlightened" in true liberal fashion... :rolleyes:

Ahh but at least such people tend to look into things vs the ignorant stances taken by many Christians......
Personal responsibilit
20-12-2004, 23:32
When did a pope of the Catholic Church wear a "jew hat?" I assure you this does not occur....

He has on multiple occasions worn a skull cap rather than his pontifical crown. Not that it was of Jewish origin however...
Conceptualists
20-12-2004, 23:33
DF, how comes every time I see the Pope, he is wearing that little jew hat. (You know the little white beanie). Is the Pope part Jewish or something?
It's a skull cap, not a kippuh [sp?]

Even though Jews do where them, it isn't uniquely jewish (however I have no idea why he wears a skull cap, maybe he's vain and likes to cover his bald patch)
Defensor Fidei
20-12-2004, 23:35
He has on multiple occasions worn a skull cap rather than his pontifical crown. Not that it was of Jewish origin however...
Which "pope" are you referring to?
Personal responsibilit
20-12-2004, 23:36
Just like Adrian VI ;)

Seems strange that Christ is his own vicar though.

Not knowing anything about Adrian, it is hard for me to speak educatedly. However, at best he was just a sinner like the rest of us, equally dependent on Christ and Christ alone for justification and sanctification.
Personal responsibilit
20-12-2004, 23:36
Which "pope" are you referring to?

The current one.
Lacadaemon
20-12-2004, 23:37
When did a pope of the Catholic Church wear a "jew hat?" I assure you this does not occur....

Last time I saw the Pope on TV he had a little white jew hat on. Why is that.

Edit: And if it isn't jewish, what is it. Jesus was a jew, did they get it from him?
Reconditum
20-12-2004, 23:37
When did a pope of the Catholic Church wear a "jew hat?" I assure you this does not occur....

The "jew hat" is more correctly referred to as a kippah or yarmulke. It looks like this:
http://www.jewishglobe.com/Products/Keter/Kippot/scv-104-a-th.jpg
Here is a picture of Pope Pius XII wearing what looks very much like a kippah:
http://www.antipas.org/news/europe/images/pope_pius_xii.jpg
Conceptualists
20-12-2004, 23:37
Which "pope" are you referring to?
http://nandotimes.nandomedia.com/ips_rich_content/234-pope.jpg
Conceptualists
20-12-2004, 23:38
Not knowing anything about Adrian, it is hard for me to speak educatedly. However, at best he was just a sinner like the rest of us, equally dependent on Christ and Christ alone for justification and sanctification.
He never tried to cover up the fact.
Lacadaemon
20-12-2004, 23:41
The "jew hat" is more correctly referred to as a kippah or yarmulke. It looks like this:
http://www.jewishglobe.com/Products/Keter/Kippot/scv-104-a-th.jpg
Here is a picture of Pope Pius XII wearing what looks very much like a kippah:
http://www.antipas.org/news/europe/images/pope_pius_xii.jpg


You have to admit, the similarity is striking. There must be a reason for it.
Defensor Fidei
20-12-2004, 23:42
The "jew hat" is more correctly referred to as a kippah or yarmulke. It looks like this:
http://www.jewishglobe.com/Products/Keter/Kippot/scv-104-a-th.jpg

Yes, and on a somewhat related note, it was Pope Paul IV, who declared in 1555 that all Jews must wear upon their heads a yellow cap (in addition to the badge they already had to wear) to distinguish themselves from Christians.
Sineal
20-12-2004, 23:48
Pope Leo X rocked - a pedophillic old lech who used to have special banquets for his high ranking clergy which involved a large cake full of naked little boys.

No other Pope embodies the spirit of Catholicism more than Leo X. 'As long as I forgive myself before I die, i'm going to heaven. Now send in the cake!'
Defensor Fidei
20-12-2004, 23:50
Pope Leo X rocked - a pedophillic old lech who used to have special banquets for his high ranking clergy which involved a large cake full of naked little boys.

No other Pope embodies the spirit of Catholicism more than Leo X. 'As long as I forgive myself before I die, i'm going to heaven. Now send in the cake!'Do not cloud this thread with yet more of your foolishness!
Personal responsibilit
20-12-2004, 23:51
He never tried to cover up the fact.

As long as he didn't try to obsolve anyone of their sins as this is a divine prerrogative, I'd say he was a step above many popes then.
Reconditum
20-12-2004, 23:54
Yes, and on a somewhat related note, it was Pope Paul IV, who declared in 1555 that all Jews must wear upon their heads a yellow cap (in addition to the badge they already had to wear) to distinguish themselves from Christians.

You don't know very much about Judaism, do you?
Lacadaemon
20-12-2004, 23:55
Yes, and on a somewhat related note, it was Pope Paul IV, who declared in 1555 that all Jews must wear upon their heads a yellow cap (in addition to the badge they already had to wear) to distinguish themselves from Christians.

So is the Pope wearing the hat because he is Jewish, or not?
Defensor Fidei
20-12-2004, 23:57
So is the Pope wearing the hat because he is Jewish, or not?
He is not wearing the Church's Jewish mark, as stolen in the 1930's and 40's by a certain other group...

And the yarmulke is not the same thing as seen in the photo of Pius XII....
Haverton
21-12-2004, 00:00
The Southern Baptists are not racist. Extremely far from it, actually. As a Southern Baptist, I am offended by this statement.

I did not imply that the Southern Baptists are racist, just that they are very restricive and are often looked on with disdain from others.
Reconditum
21-12-2004, 00:01
And the yarmulke is not the same thing as seen in the photo of Pius XII....

Do I need to find a picture of a white yarmulke then?
Personal responsibilit
21-12-2004, 00:05
Do I need to find a picture of a white yarmulke then?

Are you having fun yet? I think this kid is in over his head. Sooner or later, toying with him is going to get boring nu?
Lacadaemon
21-12-2004, 00:05
Do I need to find a picture of a white yarmulke then?


See I knew they were the same thing!
The Ashes
21-12-2004, 00:07
Sounds like a bunch of paedophiles to me. Not much of a choice.
Reconditum
21-12-2004, 00:09
Are you having fun yet? I think this kid is in over his head. Sooner or later, toying with him is going to get boring nu?

Yes, but I'm hoping for later rather than sooner. Whichever is the case that moment hasn't yet arrived. What can I say? I'm easily amused. :rolleyes:
Defensor Fidei
21-12-2004, 00:09
Do I need to find a picture of a white yarmulke then?
I) The pileolus is not a yarmulke. While they are both skullcaps, they are not identical by any means.
II) The colors of the pileolus are set standard, I am not familiar with Jewish rules on color, nor do I care.
Defensor Fidei
21-12-2004, 00:10
Sounds like a bunch of paedophiles to me. Not much of a choice.
To the Jew or Judaizer it would, since they dwell in idiocy...
Personal responsibilit
21-12-2004, 00:15
To the Jew or Judaizer it would, since they dwell in idiocy...

If they are all idiots, why did God bless them with having the world's wisest man? Another question, If they are all idiots why are so many of them wealthy? Or a better question, If they are all idiots why are you so afraid of them? Surely they will come to extinction without any help on your part if they are lacking in intellegence. Why would you even spend time worrying about them. Oh, wait, one more question, according to the Bible how many Jews are already in heaven?
Personal responsibilit
21-12-2004, 00:16
Yes, but I'm hoping for later rather than sooner. Whichever is the case that moment hasn't yet arrived. What can I say? I'm easily amused. :rolleyes:

I know I'm coming from a little different perspective, but I have to admit, I'm a little amused by this as well. :)
Lacadaemon
21-12-2004, 00:18
I) The pileolus is not a yarmulke. While they are both skullcaps, they are not identical by any means.
II) The colors of the pileolus are set standard, I am not familiar with Jewish rules on color, nor do I care.

How are they different? They look the same.
Defensor Fidei
21-12-2004, 00:21
You don't know very much about Judaism, do you?
Why do you say that?
Reconditum
21-12-2004, 00:21
How are they different? They look the same.

Well, duh. The Pope is Christian, not Jewish. Everybody knows that Christianity is the path of the right and just while Judaism is evil. The two are completely different. Christianity has nothing to do with Judaism.


...wa-ait a second...
Haverton
21-12-2004, 00:23
To the Jew or Judaizer it would, since they dwell in idiocy...

I think you've bashed Jesus enough to get you a ticket to hell.
Cherry Ridge
21-12-2004, 00:23
So, Defensor Fidei, I'm assuming you're one of the breakaway Catholic types? Or maybe you're just trying to give all Catholics a bad name? Because you're doing a heck of a job at it.
Defensor Fidei IS one of the break-away "catholics". He is not a real one.
Personal responsibilit
21-12-2004, 00:25
Well, duh. The Pope is Christian, not Jewish. Everybody knows that Christianity is the path of the right and just while Judaism is evil. The two are completely different. Christianity has nothing to do with Judaism.


...wa-ait a second...

I like where you're going with this. Which reminds me, I forgot to ask one more question... If Jews are so evil, what are you going to do with Chirst? He's both God and Jewish at the same time. Kind of hard to kill Him so I'm guessing Jewish folks will be with us for eternity. Are you sure you want to live in a heaven like that?
Defensor Fidei
21-12-2004, 00:26
Defensor Fidei IS one of the break-away "catholics". He is not a real one.
:rolleyes: Aren't you the one who launced an "ecumenical" alliance with heretics and schismatics?
Personal responsibilit
21-12-2004, 00:27
Defensor Fidei IS one of the break-away "catholics". He is not a real one.

Don't worry, I don't think anyone seriously considers him a representive of Catholasism. Catholasism has its theological errors, but they are not this extreem or at least they haven't been since the Dark Ages and the Inquisition.
Defensor Fidei
21-12-2004, 00:28
Don't worry, I don't think anyone seriously considers him a representive of Catholasism. Catholasism has it theological errors, but they are not this extreem or at least they haven't been since the Dark Ages and the Inquisition.
I am defending true orthodox Catholicism!
Haverton
21-12-2004, 00:28
:rolleyes: Aren't you the one who launced an "ecumenical" alliance with heretics and schismatics?

Protestants are not heretics. By the way, what is your opinion of the Coptic and Ethiopian churches? Are they heretics?
Personal responsibilit
21-12-2004, 00:29
I am defending true orthodox Catholicism!

As defined by whom?
Defensor Fidei
21-12-2004, 00:30
Protestants are not heretics. By the way, what is your opinion of the Coptic and Ethiopian churches? Are they heretics?
I) Protestants are heretics and damned, lest they convert to Christianity through the Holy Church.
II) Which ones?
Defensor Fidei
21-12-2004, 00:31
As defined by whom?
God, His Son, the Ghost, Popes, Saints, Theologians, etc.
Personal responsibilit
21-12-2004, 00:32
I) Protestants are heretics and damned, lest they convert to Christianity through the Holy Church.
II) Which ones?

According what version of the Bible?
Defensor Fidei
21-12-2004, 00:33
According what version of the Bible?
What?
Lacadaemon
21-12-2004, 00:34
How comes Catholics are always praying to statues of Mary and giving them gifts and offerings. Does that make them idolators and polytheists?

Who's the heretic then, eh?
Defensor Fidei
21-12-2004, 00:35
How comes Catholics are always praying to statues of Mary and giving them gifts and offerings. Does that make them idolators and polytheists?
Catholics do not pray to the statue, they pray to Whom it represents!

Who's the heretic then, eh?
They call themselves by many names. (Lutheran, Baptist, Episcopalian, etc.)
Haverton
21-12-2004, 00:35
I) Protestants are heretics and damned, lest they convert to Christianity through the Holy Church.
II) Which ones?

How so? Jesus said you had to believe in Christ, not belong to a certain church.

I am not familiar with the Ethiopian churches, just that they have operated independent of the Catholic Church.
Defensor Fidei
21-12-2004, 00:37
How so? Jesus said you had to believe in Christ, not belong to a certain church.
He built His Church upon Peter, and it is the only way to believe in Him. Through His Own Church!
...This same Church codified the Bible as we know it today.
Personal responsibilit
21-12-2004, 00:38
God, His Son, the Ghost, Popes, Saints, Theologians, etc.

Well, the last time I checked, God, His Son and the Holy Spirit all have the authority to speak on this subject, popes, saints and theologians do not. The writers of scripture have no authority of their own. Now, as far as I can tell, God's Son, Jesus recommended turning the other cheek, walking a mile and loving your enemies and doing good to those who hate you or you will be no better than the publicans and sinners. He also said something along the lines of not judging lest you be judged yourself... oh yes... I also recall a line that reads something like "vengence is mine, I will repay saith the Lord" i.e. not yours or mine.
Lacadaemon
21-12-2004, 00:40
Catholics do not pray to the statue, they pray to Whom it represents!


They call themselves by many names. (Lutheran, Baptist, Episcopalian, etc.)

So they are praying to Mary?

That doesn't sound right.
Haverton
21-12-2004, 00:41
He built His Church upon Peter, and it is the only way to believe in Him. Through His Own Church!
...This same Church codified the Bible as we know it today.

Yet Jesus did not say you had to belong to the Church to be saved, only to belive Jesus is your Lord and Savior.
Defensor Fidei
21-12-2004, 00:42
So they are praying to Mary?

That doesn't sound right.

Mary is the Blessed Mater Dei! Prayers for Her intercession are of course "right."
Personal responsibilit
21-12-2004, 00:43
He built His Church upon Peter, and it is the only way to believe in Him. Through His Own Church!
...This same Church codified the Bible as we know it today.

I see someone needs a lesson in greek. It is most likely, that in the passage Catholics most often quote as the grounds for the "pope hood" of Peter, Christ was referring to Him self as the Rock, and Peter as one of the stones that would be built upon him. Given also that Paul rebuked Peter for Semetism and Peter changed, not the other way around and given that Peter clearly defered to the judgment of James when making church decisions, I believe you'd be hard pressed to sell Peter as the first in a lineage of Popes.
Haverton
21-12-2004, 00:43
Mary is the Blessed Mater Dei! Prayers for Her intercession are of course "right."

So? She could be Gabriel for all I care and she's still not God.
Defensor Fidei
21-12-2004, 00:45
I see someone needs a lesson in greek. It is most likely, that in the passage Catholics most often quote as the grounds for the "pope hood" of Peter, Christ was referring to Him self as the Rock, and Peter as one of the stones that would be built upon him. Given also that Paul rebuked Peter for Semetism and Peter changed, not the other way around and given that Peter clearly defered to the judgment of James when making church decisions, I believe you'd be hard pressed to sell Peter as the first in a lineage of Popes.
et ego dico tibi quia tu es Petrus et super hanc petram aedificabo ecclesiam meam et portae inferi non praevalebunt adversum eam
--St. Matthew xviXVIII
Personal responsibilit
21-12-2004, 00:46
So they are praying to Mary?

That doesn't sound right.

Especially given that the Bible says, "there is none other name given under heaven among men by which we must be saved. " referring to Christ along with no evidence of anyone in scripture praying to anyone but God or Christ directly without any need of a ghost to interpret for them.
The Black Forrest
21-12-2004, 00:46
To the Jew or Judaizer it would, since they dwell in idiocy...

And so the ignorant continue to judge....
Haverton
21-12-2004, 00:46
et ego dico tibi quia tu es Petrus et super hanc petram aedificabo ecclesiam meam et portae inferi non praevalebunt adversum eam
--St. Matthew xviXVIII

So? That's Latin, not Greek.
Defensor Fidei
21-12-2004, 00:48
So? That's Latin, not Greek.
It is the inerrant text of Sacred Scripture!
Haverton
21-12-2004, 00:51
It is the inerrant text of Sacred Scripture!

Yet we do not know that during the transition from Greek to Latin caused a messup.
Lacadaemon
21-12-2004, 00:52
Mary is the Blessed Mater Dei! Prayers for Her intercession are of course "right."

Don't Catholics have the ten commandments then?
Defensor Fidei
21-12-2004, 00:52
Yet we do not know that during the transition from Greek to Latin caused a messup.
The Latin Vulgate is the only completely inerrant version of the Bible there is and will ever be! The Greek texts have thus been distorted over the centuries... the Vulgate preserved by Holy Mother Church.
Personal responsibilit
21-12-2004, 00:53
et ego dico tibi quia tu es Petrus et super hanc petram aedificabo ecclesiam meam et portae inferi non praevalebunt adversum eam
--St. Matthew xviXVIII

problem is it is the second use of rock upon which the church was built, not the first. As greek does not have punctuation and as all of the church leaders in the new testiment defer all power and authority to God, not counting themselves worthy to take His prerogatives, like hearing confession of sins etc for themselves, it is far more likely that Christ was referring to Himself as the Rock on which the church was built, ie the "Cheif Corner Stone, which the builders rejected" both the Jewish ones and the Catholic pontifs rejected as having soul authority in the church and took on the divine prerogatives for themselves.
Personal responsibilit
21-12-2004, 00:55
The Latin Vulgate is the only completely inerrant version of the Bible there is and will ever be! The Greek texts have thus been distorted over the centuries... the Vulgate preserved by Holy Mother Church.

And what part of the Bible says this?
Defensor Fidei
21-12-2004, 00:55
Don't Catholics have the ten commandments then?
1. I am the Lord thy God. Thou shall not have strange gods before me.
2. Thou shall not take the name of the Lord thy God in vain.
3. Remember thou keep the Sabbath Day.
4. Honor thy Father and thy Mother.
5. Thou shall not kill.
6. Thou shall not commit adultery.
7. Thou shall not steal.
8. Thou shall not bear false witness against thy neighbor.
9. Thou shall not covet thy neighbor's wife.
10. Thou shall not covet thy neighbor's goods.
Haverton
21-12-2004, 00:55
The Latin Vulgate is the only completely inerrant version of the Bible there is and will ever be! The Greek texts have thus been distorted over the centuries... the Vulgate preserved by Holy Mother Church.

Yet the texts of the Bible were written in Greek, not Latin. Are you saying the translators knew that the original writers were wrong and were able to read the minds of the writers and knew what they ment, and THEN translated it into Latin with the "corrections". And of course, they use this power only for good...
Haverton
21-12-2004, 00:56
1. I am the Lord thy God. Thou shall not have strange gods before me.
2. Thou shall not take the name of the Lord thy God in vain.
3. Remember thou keep the Sabbath Day.
4. Honor thy Father and thy Mother.
5. Thou shall not kill.
6. Thou shall not commit adultery.
7. Thou shall not steal.
8. Thou shall not bear false witness against thy neighbor.
9. Thou shall not covet thy neighbor's wife.
10. Thou shall not covet thy neighbor's goods.

This kinda flys in the face of praying to Mary...
Lacadaemon
21-12-2004, 00:57
1. I am the Lord thy God. Thou shall not have strange gods before me.
2. Thou shall not take the name of the Lord thy God in vain.
3. Remember thou keep the Sabbath Day.
4. Honor thy Father and thy Mother.
5. Thou shall not kill.
6. Thou shall not commit adultery.
7. Thou shall not steal.
8. Thou shall not bear false witness against thy neighbor.
9. Thou shall not covet thy neighbor's wife.
10. Thou shall not covet thy neighbor's goods.


Yet you continue to deify Mary, polytheist.
Personal responsibilit
21-12-2004, 01:00
Don't Catholics have the ten commandments then?


Just a modified verson. They combine the first 2, change the fourth from the 7th day of the week to the first and divide the 10th into 2 seperate commandments. in Exodus 20 that is. Of course, they forgot to make that same change in Deutronomy and have since claimed that the churches authority to change scripture is a sign of its divine appointment, see "The Keys of This Blood" by Malachi Martin.
Haverton
21-12-2004, 01:03
1. I am the Lord thy God. Thou shall not have strange gods before me.
2. Thou shall not take the name of the Lord thy God in vain.
3. Remember thou keep the Sabbath Day.
4. Honor thy Father and thy Mother.
5. Thou shall not kill.
6. Thou shall not commit adultery.
7. Thou shall not steal.
8. Thou shall not bear false witness against thy neighbor.
9. Thou shall not covet thy neighbor's wife.
10. Thou shall not covet thy neighbor's goods.

You forgot not to make any false idols, and should combine 9 and 10, and 2 should be 3.
Personal responsibilit
21-12-2004, 01:04
This kinda flys in the face of praying to Mary...

and or bowing down before an image of her...
Personal responsibilit
21-12-2004, 01:12
Hey, where'd he go. Oh well, I've had enough fun for one evening. I think I'll head home. Hopefully, my lovely wife will be there soon as well. I bid you all adue.