NationStates Jolt Archive

that's partly true. however jerusalem is a holy city for muslims too so they want a share of it as well, something israel isn't ready to accept..
They already have Mecca, they don't need a second one.

They already have Mecca, they don't need a second one.

"they" have just as legimate claims to jerusalem as jews..

No, Arabs blame Jews for everything because of the military humiliations they have suffered. At this point, there's no way to beat them back into the sea, so they have to just rant.

Ranting is something that losers do. And life sucks losers dry.

Read Naipaul if you want to know the real reason that any nation fool enough to embrace Islam has slid into the trashheap of history.

No, Arabs blame Jews for everything because of the military humiliations they have suffered. At this point, there's no way to beat them back into the sea, so they have to just rant.

Ranting is something that losers do. And life sucks losers dry.

Read Naipaul if you want to know the real reason that any nation fool enough to embrace Islam has slid into the trashheap of history.

Well they didn't really loose the war to Israel. They lost it to USA..

Jews, as it were, are a problem.

Two main reasons for this.

1) They are the cause of the problems in the Middle East. This is an undeniable fact. They just butt in saying "we want a land of our own" (nothing wrong with that) but the UN give them a bit of someone else's land. They cold just politely refuse and move to a desert Island, but NO! They have to wage a terrible war (both sides are equally to blame I say). They ought to have learned from History that that was not an option.
2) They can get politicians fired for saying Anti-Semitic things?????? Well, damn it! They have as much right to be mocked and criticised as any other minority group. But others don't kick up as much of a fuss as they do, disabled people for instance or homosexuals. I say illegalise any form or discrimination to the same extent to which Anti-Semitism is frowned upon or they just have to grin and bear it!!!!!!

My two cents!

:mp5: :sniper: :gundge:

Well they didn't really loose the war to Israel. They lost it to USA..

That does not change the truth of Naipaul's writings...

A possiblity, yes, but I've noticed that most of the Anti-Jew actions in history have been more for the extermination/control of the Jews, with little effort to have them turn away from their ways.

Not all mind you, Hanukkah is about a Jewish rebellion against the Greeks who tried to force us to abandon Judaism, but most.

Let me start off by saying I'm Jewish.

But the Hanukkah story - most of it is bullshit, unfortunately.

Even more unfortunate is the commercialization of the holiday.

Chag sameach! (Happy Holiday(s), for you non-Hebrew speakers)

1) They are the cause of the problems in the Middle East. This is an undeniable fact. They just butt in saying "we want a land of our own" (nothing wrong with that) but the UN give them a bit of someone else's land. They cold just politely refuse and move to a desert Island, but NO! They have to wage a terrible war (both sides are equally to blame I say). They ought to have learned from History that that was not an option.


I do agree with that. Handing out land to Israel from the Middle-East is the biggest mistake the UN ever made. Well I do understand why "they" want to live there and all, but surely everyone saw this coming even back then. Much more reasonable option would have been handing out some land from mid-west-usa or something, after all there's no such thing as "god's chosen people", i mean there obviously isn't even such thing as god and no such thing as "holy land" either..

That does not change the truth of Naipaul's writings...

I don't even know who Naipaul is.. can't be that importand since I don't recall being told about anyone name Naipaul @ school ever..

Well they didn't really loose the war to Israel. They lost it to USA..
Not really, their army may have been subsidized by us but we now do the same thing to the Saudi military and if it came to war, the Saudi's would still get their asses kicked even if we sat it out. I'm pretty sure if they really had too that Israel could take on Saudi, Egypt, Syria, Iran, and Jordan at the same time if it really really had too. This assumes that the Syrians don't use chemical weaps and the Iranians don't go nuclear, in which case the entire middle east would be turned into a giant glass bowl.

Because they're DOING EVIL. Evil acts need to STOP. NOW. I don't care if all the other races have slaughtered people, doesn't mean the Jews should become the next NAZIs 'cause "Everyone else is doing it."you already said that whole the world is evil without tell better system than states and goverments. still you blame only Israel, and said we are the only one who had no right for state.
the part on the nazis is dumb. neither Israel nor every other state on the world get close to the nazis. I didn't say anything on acts of countries. I talked on the right to state.
now, maybe tell me what wrong in that?

Don't care? Explain the bombings.
the national thing in the Islam start many years later. at the beginning they accept the jewish, and get benefits from the modern systems and the technology.
until some religious start to increase the hate, whole the area enjoy from the good economy and social rights.
the bombing not begin because of us, be sure at that.
I never said 'better'. I said 'racist'. The US and Europe have different styles of government.
oh, so now we racist. why? because we want state for ourselves? last time I check Israel USA and europe both as democracies. despite that the arabs had national religious dictatorships. all the bad in their state, why don't blame them?
They haven't wanted to nuke the world YET. But they're in the group of religions that thinks that this isn't the only life. Anyone who thinks they can come back to life after being vaporized by a nuclear war should NOT be able to -start- said nuclear war.so now you blame Israel for party of religious wacko (that had no connection to the judaism moral or bible) and I don't know why you imagine them, and last time I checked exist in every state on earth?
come on, so all the arabs should blame for the terrorist you call minority?
There's no such thing as a right to state.[/QUOTE]
sure, and that why you want to destory the jewish state that already exict (and not any other state), and establish palastinian state despite?
get out from that dream, man.

Not really, their army may have been subsidized by us but we now do the same thing to the Saudi military and if it came to war, the Saudi's would still get their asses kicked even if we sat it out. I'm pretty sure if they really had too that Israel could take on Saudi, Egypt, Syria, Iran, and Jordan at the same time if it really really had too. This assumes that the Syrians don't use chemical weaps and the Iranians don't go nuclear, in which case the entire middle east would be turned into a giant glass bowl.

RIIIGHT Syrian's have chemical weapons and Iran has nukes.. LOL.. Somebody believes blindly what his gov tells him

I wonder if the Iranian nukes are anything like the Iraq's ones.. LOL

now i haven't read every message on this seventeen page thread, so excuse me if this has already been mentioned:

Some of this rampant anti-sematism throughout history is really a case of squeeky wheel get the oil. They have been oppressed, but so have many other groups that are not recognized for this oppression.

For example: the Holocaust. Jews were singled out for destruction, but they were not by far the only group to be singled out. Hitler killed six million jews in the holocuast, but he killed forteen million people this way. Who were the other eight million? Other groups that did not fit into his idea of the perfect protestant super race: Communists, Homosexuals, other non-arian ethnicities, and even Catholics were targetted.
that's eight million people that history has all but forgotten, and instead concentrates on the six million.

My theory as to why this is? Judaism teaches that its members will be blessed for their efforts. So, they are pro-active. Some of the other groups were not, or could not be for other reasons. (such as having been eradicated)

Jews write good histories

i'm doing this from memory, so if you do correct my numbers, do so kindly.

I believe th lack of trust in them developed during the Dark Age of Europe. At the time, the Catholic Church did not allow its members to loan money and put a interest on it. So, Jews were the ones to create "banks."

Puttting the lack of trust to people that loan money and want more in return, with the fear of other cultures created the trend.

What is really terrible for Jews is that the Chrisian and Islamic prohibitions against lending at interest are prohibitions which came from Jewish law! !!

Jews could not own land, or farm, they could not enter most forms of business other than being pawn brokers, or money lenders. Jews could not have military careers, they could not hold government positions in most European countries, The fact is that the Jews were FORCED into the business of lending money at interest despite their religious objections to it, because internationally it was the only trade allowed them. Jews had to eat, and survival comes above most provisions of religious law in any religion including the Jewish religion, which by the way has a very logical, and sensible legal system.

Christians ought to remember that Jesus said 'I came not to destroy the Law but to fullfill it'

Incidentally for all you credit card carrying Christians out there, BORROwING at interest is EQUALLY forbidden as LENDING at interest!!!

An observant Christian ought not do either.

It is one of the shames of Christian history how often Christian societies have forced other peoples into violating either their own or Christian custom and law to meet some percieved need and then turned on people forced to violate these principles and laws with genocidem, discrimination and hatred.
This tendency seems to get worse in eras during which Christians express more miltancy as Christians.

A lot of resentment some Christians harbor toward Jews and for that matter Muslims comes from the fact that many Christians are ignorant of their own religious law and social doctrines to the point they cannot properly observe their own religion.
One thing that is very noticeable about Jews and Muslims is that Jews and Muslims know their laws and customs, Jews and Muslims tend to be visible in their observance, and it's noticeable because both groups differ from the at least nominally Christian majority in Western Europe, and North America.

Most Christians in Western Europe and North America, even the noisy fundamentalists aren't really observing the law, customs, or spriit of the faith, and in fact are nominal.
'
This is the real source of their predjudices toward Jews and Muslims.

RIIIGHT Syrian's have chemical weapons and Iran has nukes.. LOL.. Somebody believes blindly what his gov tells him.
Since this would occur at some point in the future, it is possible the Iranians may have achived nuclear capability by then. Syria, on the other hand, has publicly stated that they have stockpiles of chemical weaps. Oddly enough, they did this soon after the Iraq invasion. Interesting coincidence there. When a government like Syria says they have said stockpiles then one pays attention and plans for various eventualities.

now i haven't read every message on this seventeen page thread, so excuse me if this has already been mentioned:

Some of this rampant anti-sematism throughout history is really a case of squeeky wheel get the oil. They have been oppressed, but so have many other groups that are not recognized for this oppression.

For example: the Holocaust. Jews were singled out for destruction, but they were not by far the only group to be singled out. Hitler killed six million jews in the holocuast, but he killed forteen million people this way. Who were the other eight million? Other groups that did not fit into his idea of the perfect protestant super race: Communists, Homosexuals, other non-arian ethnicities, and even Catholics were targetted.
that's eight million people that history has all but forgotten, and instead concentrates on the six million.

My theory as to why this is? Judaism teaches that its members will be blessed for their efforts. So, they are pro-active. Some of the other groups were not, or could not be for other reasons. (such as having been eradicated)

Jews write good histories

i'm doing this from memory, so if you do correct my numbers, do so kindly.
The Jews were the biggest group killed, and at the very least christians associate much better with Jews than they do homosexuals or the romgerry.

You people obviously don't know your history.

1. At first the Jews were persecuted because they were nomads and had a monothestic religion opposed to the polythestic religion.

2. They refused to worship the Ceasar at Rome as a God

3. Hitler wanted to go to an art school but wasn't accepted. He thought that he wasn't accepted because the owners were Jews.

That's the only reason why they were persecuted

Barney (the eek) shouldn't have eaten the mercenaries candies.



:eek: :sniper: :sniper: :sniper: :sniper: :gundge: :gundge: :gundge: :mp5: :mp5:

Also the holocaust wasn't just Jews but all subhumans (Russians, French, Polish,
Jews...)










:headbang: :headbang: :headbang: :headbang: :headbang: :sniper: :sniper: :sniper:

Sorry to say this but Macedonians weren't Greek..

Maybe not ethnically, but they were culturally. They were part of the Hellenistic world and Alexander spread Hellenistic culture throughout the Middle East, Western Asia, and Northern Africa.

you had some facts wrong.
first, Israel indipendence was by the UN. the arabs didn't accept that and refused to establish the state the UN gave them. despite that, they attack Israel in response to destroy the jewish state. they loose, they get nothing, and they stay refugees. the arabs state neither let them join to them as citizens, nor give them land for state on the area they had. they prefer to try and destroy Israel in another wars. they keep loose, they take back some areas in peace agreements, and the palastinians are still refugees.
second, the state justifaction is not just the bible. the anti-semitism and the holocust prove that jewish need a state for themselves, so they can defend themselves.
also the UN in 1947, and balfur (britain minister) in 1917, gave agreement for the state. in adittion, the jewish develope the area for almost 60 years before they get countrey. we had all the base for state and independence.
third, the israeli-arab conflict didn't begin in 1948. he began in 1920, when the arabs attacked the jewish in jerusalem for national reasons.
forth, Israel accept the palastinian right for state, despite most of the arabs, who keep ignore the jewish right for state. the arabs, didn't accepted the palastinian right to state and they refused to help them or gave them areas for countrey. the fact palastinians don't had a country is mostly arrafat fault, because he ignore the peace agreements, that gave them state.
fifth, I don't know from where you get the Idea of the UN negotitors assassanations, but that never happened. also the palstinians never move in force from their homes. they ran away for the arab states, thet take the area and gave them home back. that actions was despite join to Israel as citizens, and stay in their homes. Israel ask them to, but they refused.
six, from where you get the turks Idea? that is the most stupid thing I heard, than someone suggest to nuke whole the middle east.

Uhm, did you read the link : http://www.un.org/Depts/dpa/ngo/history.html ? You keep citing the UN and it's decisions, the link provided goes to the UN's synopsis of events, which clearly shows that Israel declared independence outside of the UN mandates and forcibly evicted the Palestinians. Please read the facts before you misquote, again. The 'facts' that I apparently have wrong, are all backed up and verified by the UN , so if you want to keep stating the UN"s position, it might be a good idea if you knew what it was first.

The Ottoman Empire and Turkish Republic ruled Palestine (and the middle east) until the British and the French dismembered the Turkish Empire in retaliation for the Turks entering WWI on the Germans side. During Turkish rule, Jews, Muslims and Christians were free to worship as they wished so long as they did not interfere with the state and state laws. The idiotic violence that continues between the Israelis and the Palestinians shows that a firm hand , like the Turkish Empire, would be the best solution. So, before you speak again about 'from where you get the turks Idea? that is the most stupid thing I heard' read some history books, look in the newspaper. Turkey is the largest secular democracy in the Middle or Near East.

There wouldn't be fighting in Israel/Palestine today if it wasn't for British and French forces protecting sorry Israeli and Palestinian asses from Ataturk and his new republic.

Well they didn't really loose the war to Israel. They lost it to USA..

Don't even try that one. The USA never helped Israel from 1948 to 1967 with military. Only after 1967 did it start giving weapons to Israel, mostly because the Soviets were already selling mass amounts of weapons to the Arab countries, especially Nasser's Egypt. The Soviets were backing the Arab countries with weapons and by doing this they were able to make tons of money, which is why the Soviets did much to prevent peace in the middle east, so they could sell weapons. Israel was actually told by America that they wouldn't help Israel in defense (though they still morally backed Israel) against the larger, surrounding, Soviet weapon backed Arab countries. America only started sending military aid to Israel (and scarcely) after 1967 when it became clear that Israel needed weapons to be on a more equal level with the Arabs so that the Arab countries would tend to attack less and so Soviets wouldn't control the Middle East, so the crisis wouldn't get worse.

The Jews invented modern terrorism, they invented parcel bombs, letter bombs, get the picture.

The Jewish terrorist group in Palestine in 1945 started a completely unprovoked terrorist campaign against British forces in the area.

They boasted about killing 7 sleeping paratroopers, and hanging then boobytrapping 2 captured soldiers.

I have a distinct dislike for Isreal for that reason, even if it is my 11th birthday Tcherbeb. And Tcherbeb, go grow some pubic hair.

Actually the Macedonians invented modern terrorism. The Macedonian organization known as IMRO was the first non state entity to use what we would call terrorist tactics.

During the Balkan conflicts in the late eighteen hundreds and early nineteen hundreds, Macedonia was in the process of being overrun by Turks, Bulgarians, Russians and others. IMRO was founded to fight for Macedonian independence or autonomy and targetted military and civilian targets indiscriminantly.

Now during that time State powers often targetted civilians as well as military targets during war but, IMRO was the first time that a power that did not serve any defined state attacked 'occupying' powers and other groups with ideological differences, hence a terrorist organization.

IMRO was founded in 1893 and set the pattern for bombings, kidnappings , murder and mayhem in the name of nationalism by a non-state entity.

addenum- It's been conjectured that the founder and leader of IMRO , Gotse Deltchev, may actually have been Bulgarian, in which case I suppose the Bulgarians invented it.

Maybe not ethnically, but they were culturally. They were part of the Hellenistic world and Alexander spread Hellenistic culture throughout the Middle East, Western Asia, and Northern Africa.

Well the Historians from that age's biggest polis such as Athens and Sparta pretty much referred to Macedonians as fucking barbars from the north.. check out what "barbar" actually ment. Macedonian's weren't Greek that's for sure. They did however conquer also the land area that people today refer as The Hellenic Republic, or Greece. And true they did take many things from the "Greeks", but it's just wrong to say that they were Greek..

Don't even try that one. The USA never helped Israel from 1948 to 1967 with military. Only after 1967 did it start giving weapons to Israel, mostly because the Soviets were already selling mass amounts of weapons to the Arab countries, especially Nasser's Egypt. The Soviets were backing the Arab countries with weapons and by doing this they were able to make tons of money, which is why the Soviets did much to prevent peace in the middle east, so they could sell weapons. Israel was actually told by America that they wouldn't help Israel in defense (though they still morally backed Israel) against the larger, surrounding, Soviet weapon backed Arab countries. America only started sending military aid to Israel (and scarcely) after 1967 when it became clear that Israel needed weapons to be on a more equal level with the Arabs so that the Arab countries would tend to attack less and so Soviets wouldn't control the Middle East, so the crisis wouldn't get worse.

nah, http://wais.stanford.edu/USA/us_aidtoisrael41503.html

Well the Historians from that age's biggest polis such as Athens and Sparta pretty much referred to Macedonians as fucking barbars from the north.. check out what "barbar" actually ment. Macedonian's weren't Greek that's for sure. They did however conquer also the land area that people today refer as The Hellenic Republic, or Greece. And true they did take many things from the "Greeks", but it's just wrong to say that they were Greek..

You a representative of the Macedonian Anti-Defamation League or something? My thread was about Hellenistic rulers and their attitudes toward Jews, not a thesis on tribal differences in the Balkan peninsula.

Alexander, the MACEDONIAN (who spoke Greek, was tutored by Greeks, and whose mother was Greek), spread Greek language, traditions, and art throughout the Near East. You are quite correct that Macedonians are ethnically distinct from the Greeks.

However, I believe I made that point in my last post.

^ (from the link)"US Aid to Israel FY 1949 -FY2003"

That did nothing to rebut anything.

Also, on my last, post, I wrote that Israel was "never supported by America" for their military, but it should really be written "very scarcely supported and not supported at all for military until around the 60s."

(directed at post 275)

The Jews invented modern terrorism, they invented parcel bombs, letter bombs, get the picture.

The Jewish terrorist group in Palestine in 1945 started a completely unprovoked terrorist campaign against British forces in the area.

They boasted about killing 7 sleeping paratroopers, and hanging then boobytrapping 2 captured soldiers.

I have a distinct dislike for Isreal for that reason, even if it is my 11th birthday Tcherbeb. And Tcherbeb, go grow some pubic hair.

Eheheh...the Jews invented modern terrorism? I don't think so.

Starts with Bolshvik Russia, firstly, and you are saying bad stuff Israelis did in 1945, but what about all the merciless suicide bombings Palestinian terrorists do now? Does that excuse them? Two wrongs don't make a right.

Also, I think you should study the Balfour declaration and the Husayn McMahon correspondence...no one is a terrorist for no reason. Terrorism is defined as violence to gain a religious or political end.

I believe the most common reason is that they were there. Throughout history minorities have always been picked on, and Jews, especially after the dispora, were in many different cultures, so they became an easy target.
That's my thoughts, at least.

The Jews invented modern terrorism....

Well I'm not sure what makes "modern" terrorism any different than just plain terrorism, but certainly Robespierre (the Reign of Terror) could make a claim to be an early practicianer. As could the southerners at the end of the American Civil War who formed the Ku Klux Klan. Perhaps you would consider the late 19th and early 20th century anarchists to be modern enough. Anarchist terrorists killed Tsar Alexander II of Russia and President McKinley of the U.S.A.

However, if you go back far enough I suppose you could make a claim for early Jewish terrorists in the Zealots, who committed random murders and eventually ended up committing suicide atop the mountain Masada.

I'm not a conspiracy theorist who thinks that there is a world-wide anti-Jewish plot stretching back for millenia, nor do I think that we are the only religion/culture to be mistreated throughout history. Others have had it just as bad, sometimes worse. But it seems that Jews always do seem to have a special seat reserved for them in the 'Scapegoat' section.

We have had our time in the spotlight, I'm not denying that. At one time in history our Empire was the largest in the world and currently Israel is the focus of many international eyes (Please, don't turn this into a thread about Israels actions since its creation in '48), but the brief rises are always overshadowed by the larger falls.

Why is it always the Jews?

EDIT: Since people don't read all the posts and keep missing mine, I guess I'll just edit it in right here.



Perhaps because the jews have always kept to themselves (until now that is) and were conspicously different. Its human nature to distrust people who are different. Unfortunate, but history is full of such examples, not just the jews, all sorts of minorities.

Perhaps because the jews have always kept to themselves (until now that is) and were conspicously different. Its human nature to distrust people who are different. Unfortunate, but history is full of such examples, not just the jews, all sorts of minorities.


but people who are different either 1. make peace with the larger body(Lutherans) or 2. Get exterminated (Anabaptists.)

so why do the jews get the crap for 2000 years and cant make peace?

and why arent we dead?

but people who are different either 1. make peace with the larger body(Lutherans) or 2. Get exterminated (Anabaptists.)

so why do the jews get the crap for 2000 years and cant make peace?

and why arent we dead?
first, because peace destroy the judaism. all the times great nation want "peace" with us, they mean "change your religion, and be like us, and then we let you be alive".

about your second question, from one hand I think we had lot of motivation in all the war we had. also we use good tactics most of the times.
from the other hand, I think we just had huge amount of luck.

you already said that whole the world is evil without tell better system than states and goverments.


Empires are built on blood. I, personally, would like to stop this from happening BEFORE it gets bad.


still you blame only Israel, and said we are the only one who had no right for state.


1) Stop acting like a whiny little kid. The "Everyone else is doing it!" thing is for two year olds and teenagers.

2) There's no such thing as a right to state.

3) I have never and will never support a nation being built for anything religious or genetic. Not for an African nation, an Anglo nation, or a Japanese nation. I wouldn't even support an atheist mutt nation (a nation of mes), because I'm not willing to make someone's life hell just because they happen to decide theyr'e Wiccans or something, or because they dared to not have mixed blood. Form it on sound real world values, like socalism or capitalism, democracy or republic. Not "You must not eat pork" and so forth.


the part on the nazis is dumb. neither Israel nor every other state on the world get close to the nazis.


Every evil starts somewhere, and the most dangerous are the ones that look innocent.


I didn't say anything on acts of countries. I talked on the right to state.
now, maybe tell me what wrong in that?


There's no such thing as a right to state. We don't have it, you don't have it, they don't have it. The closest thing I've ever run across with any sanity is squatter's rights. If land is unclaimed, and you tend it, fine. If the UN says "Here you go, take this land that someone else already claimed", No.


the national thing in the Islam start many years later. at the beginning they accept the jewish, and get benefits from the modern systems and the technology.
until some religious start to increase the hate, whole the area enjoy from the good economy and social rights.
the bombing not begin because of us, be sure at that.


It only takes a small percentage to make a nation dangerous.


oh, so now we racist. why? because we want state for ourselves?


If you want Isreal to be a Jewish-as-defined-by-genetics nation, yes. If you want it to be based on people being Jewish as a faith, then you're religionist, which is almost as bad, and possibly more dangerous, if its neither, then why not join Palestine instead of starting Isreal?


last time I check Israel USA and europe both as democracies.


The US is not a democracy, we're a democratic socialist republic.


despite that the arabs had national religious dictatorships. all the bad in their state, why don't blame them?
so now you blame Israel for party of religious wacko (that had no connection to the judaism moral or bible) and I don't know why you imagine them, and last time I checked exist in every state on earth?
come on, so all the arabs should blame for the terrorist you call minority?


Are you honestly suggesting that Izzy is a paradise of morality? What was that number, 4,000 Palestinians?


sure, and that why you want to destory the jewish state that already exict (and not any other state), and establish palastinian state despite?
get out from that dream, man.

I think both groups are psychotic nutjobs who need to grow up and act like adults, and form countries on land nobody else is using, and start nations based on values that can be proven to exist in the real world, and aren't based on genetic chance.

Heaven forbid someone finally forge a nation based on unity instead of seperatism.

3) I have never and will never support a nation being built for anything religious or genetic. Not for an African nation, an Anglo nation, or a Japanese nation. I wouldn't even support an atheist mutt nation (a nation of mes), because I'm not willing to make someone's life hell just because they happen to decide theyr'e Wiccans or something, or because they dared to not have mixed blood. Form it on sound real world values, like socalism or capitalism, democracy or republic. Not "You must not eat pork" and so forth.


You do realize that Israel exists because in every other fucking country, jews are oppressed, killed, or sealed off in ghettoes?
You do realize that America was founded by oppressed protestants who fled a brutal monarchy bent on either converting or killing them?

Last of all, you do realize that you prefer to bash on a secular, democratic state instead of one of the 23 monarchies/dictatorships whose population danced on 9/11?

I think both groups are psychotic nutjobs who need to grow up and act like adults, and form countries on land nobody else is using, and start nations based on values that can be proven to exist in the real world, and aren't based on genetic chance.

Heaven forbid someone finally forge a nation based on unity instead of seperatism.


That makes way too much sense. Grow up? Act like adults? What politician in the history of the planet earth has ever done that?

;)