NationStates Jolt Archive

What no BS you are attacking me!
i know i am attacking u, i just said so

it was him insulting veterans and i was attacking him!
I am him fool!
What are you 12

I Hate bastards that deface things of National Pride!

I attack those who dare to attack the pride of our veterans.

I am him fool!
What are you 12

I Hate bastards that deface things of Nationl Pride!
but u posted the whole HOORAH for defacin veterans thing, didnt u

i know i am attacking u, i just said so

I think a dingo's eating your baby mate...

I think a dingo's eating your baby mate...

nah, there all dead

nah, there all dead

Well Pauline Hanson's at your door...

nah she's in prison

nah, there all dead

So you ate, em!

nah, they dumped them in darwin

but u posted the whole HOORAH for defacin veterans thing, didnt u
So you dont know what Sarcasam is!
We have a Winner here guys what's his prize?

has anyone made a sheep joke yet?

has anyone made a sheep joke yet?
Why because Australia has got more of them?

Why not makes jokes about the kangaroos? That's where Australian testtube babies come from.

Why not makes jokes about the kangaroos? That's where Australian testtube babies come from.
Well isnt it interesting to note kangaroo's can box.
Now why would they need to do that?.......
Also Tazzy Devils rape the Females for 3 days!-nice way to procreate!

Lo and behold, Aussies!

http://www.nearingzero.net/definitions/screenres/australia2.jpg

So who's actually got the balls to wake up early and attend an Anzac Day dawn parade? Nobody thinks anything about their country these days. I'm definitely goign to honor the veterans. Without them, you and I would be sushi makers today!

Lo and behold, Aussies!

http://www.nearingzero.net/definitions/screenres/australia2.jpg

The image will not work for me.

I have an Australian joke for you: A boy walks up to his father and asks what an IQ test is. The father thinks for a moment and says, "it's a test to see how smart you are. 120 is really smart, 90 is avarage and 60 you are so dumb you can't even tie your shoe laces."

"Is that why Australians wear thongs?"

I'm an Australian BTW.

As for dawn services, not for me. I go to the parade though.

http://www.nearingzero.net/definitions/definitions.html

The cartoon's from that page. It'll be in one of the first links you see.

I hope all of you have done something to honor the veteran, today. If it wasn't for the Anzacs you'd be working as a sushi maker!

I hope all of you have done something to honor the veteran, today. If it wasn't for the Anzacs you'd be working as a sushi maker!

Actualy, in WWI Japan was on our side and lost about 400 men. They were involved in attacking the German held port of Tienstein in 1916 and that they sent some naval support to Gallopli and the Middle East.

Actualy, in WWI Japan was on our side and lost about 400 men. They were involved in attacking the German held port of Tienstein in 1916 and that they sent some naval support to Gallopli and the Middle East.

Both Japan and Italy was disappointed that they did not gain any land after 1918.

I make sushi...well, not for a job but still...

first off, it's spel Australia, not Austrlia, i guess that proves the whole New Zealand people are smart worng. And secondly New Zealand are hated by many countries, one of them being France. Also the New Zealand government has no goo history, with a series of wars against the Kiwis in the 1800's, u see this is opressing. Also callling them abos is nothing good, u say we opress aboriginals, u opress them more

Best to check your post for typos, before criticising another person for their typo.

We oppress maori more than you oppress aboriginals? You're being humourous aren't you? That's quite an amusing and ignorant comment. But then you don't appear to have the ability to read a full post and understand what an emoticon rolling its eyes means, so I'm not surprised.

At least in NZ, we don't drag Maori children out off the arms of their parents, in order to turn them 'White'. Maori in NZ aren't second class citizens, but Abos are definitely second class in Australia.

Anyone here watches Facelift (http://www.gibson.co.nz/Television/Comedy/Facelift/Facelift.html)? It's some of the best political satire I know.

Yeah Facelift is great.

I watched it last week missed it this week maybe-Not sure when its on if i watch it i watch it if i dont idont.

I watched it last week missed it this week maybe-Not sure when its on if i watch it i watch it if i dont idont.

It's on TV One, Monday nights at 10:00. That plus South Park makes the best hour of television I get in a week!

It's on TV One, Monday nights at 10:00. That plus South Park makes the best hour of television I get in a week!
Damn SP as well i really should see whats on TV! :(

I missed SP last week, so that pissed me off!

When is SP on???? I'm watching crap right now. That dancing-show thingy with that guy, who used to host childrens programming with that puppet...

"Get John Tamihere to give you a ride home."

I believe that's 9pm on wednesday

I believe that's 9pm on wednesday

Wednesdays at 9:30pm on C4. Capeesh?

not only do i not have sky, and have to walk 1.5km to watch it, but i need to walk 2km the other way to download southpark on a broadband connection.
and to top it all off, the range of the 3 cell towers in my town stops 50m any direction of my house. :headbang:

cant wait to get back to canada

not only do i not have sky, and have to walk 1.5km to watch it, but i need to walk 2km the other way to download southpark on a broadband connection.
and to top it all off, the range of the 3 cell towers in my town stops 50m any direction of my house. :headbang:

cant wait to get back to canada

Are you in NZ? If so you dont need sky, its on C4 (free to air)

Are you in NZ? If so you dont need sky, its on C4 (free to air)

I think Sky airs the newer episodes. This country's so damn slow! C4 airs season 8 but America's already watching season 10.

Don' t forget, SP's on tonight!!!

So what do we all do (or plan to do) here? There's a corrolation between people of certain occupations having certain political beliefs. E.g. the dole bludgers voting Labour.

http://www.kiwinews.co.nz/uploads/helengrad.jpg

So what do we all do (or plan to do) here? There's a corrolation between people of certain occupations having certain political beliefs. E.g. the dole bludgers voting Labour.

http://www.kiwinews.co.nz/uploads/helengrad.jpg

Ultimately I want Helen's job.

Ultimately I want Helen's job.

I want the police commissioner's job, somebody need to tell them boys in the blue to stop waxing their batons when they're on the police computers.

Yes, a thread on the internal politics of New Zealand. I don't know whether this is a waste of time or not, but any other Kiwis about these forums?
not quite a Kiwi myself...but I have been to New Zealand and love it...I would like to learn more about thier political system.

*100th post*

I want the police commissioner's job, somebody need to tell them boys in the blue to stop waxing their batons when they're on the police computers.

It looks like it might be up for grabs soon if you want it, altho it might be hard to do worse than robinson so you might want to be careful :p

http://www.kiwinews.co.nz/uploads/helengrad.jpg
So True!

I want to be Immigration Minister.

yea, we need a new immigration minister, this guy seems to deport everyone, and for fucks sake, 300 refugees a year is pathetic, we have the ecomony to take in many thousand easily.

if people overstay then they obviously love the country better than their home, so why make them go back.

and lets not forget ahmed zaoui, the guy was illegally detained for 2 years!!! we sholud have granted him refugee status immediately instead of partaking in barbaric american detention. its that sort of attitude that makes america targets for bombing, and even if he is what the yanks call a 'terrorist', then that jsut increases good relations with the middle east.

yea, we need a new immigration minister, this guy seems to deport everyone, and for fucks sake, 300 refugees a year is pathetic, we have the ecomony to take in many thousand easily.

if people overstay then they obviously love the country better than their home, so why make them go back.

and lets not forget ahmed zaoui, the guy was illegally detained for 2 years!!! we sholud have granted him refugee status immediately instead of partaking in barbaric american detention. its that sort of attitude that makes america targets for bombing, and even if he is what the yanks call a 'terrorist', then that jsut increases good relations with the middle east.

Some of your opinions resemble the typical dope-smoking hippie wanker! Overstayers are criminals (since they have broken the immigration law), they deserve deportation.

Immigrants (especially of business category) have aided that economic boom, but overstayers live off the grid and cannot work (they're overstayer, remember). Sure, we need more immigrants, but let's pick the ones that are actually beneficial to our economy, not thieving overstayers.

Is Ahmed Zaoui a f*ckin' hero? He entered the country on a false passport (Why don't you try doing that?), that's an automatic qualification of deportation without question. Only criminals, spies and terrorists enter countries on false papers, is he not making himself seem like one?

What do you mean that it increases good relations with the Middle East? We've caused a row with Algeria, you fool! He was a terrorist sympathiser in his country, that's one reason why he fled. Ever heard of crocodile tears, son? All that time in prison, he's been perfecting that innocent, tearful look for public appearances (remember, people like him are smarter than you).

Now that we've let one Middle Eastern man with a suspicious background into this country, former Iraqi ministers (whether innocent or not), can accelerate their entry, with next to no security checks! Barbaric American detention? The tax payers here fund more than $100,000 to keep one prisoner alive for a year! They live in f*ckin' five-star hotels. If we need to make them pay, at least have hard labor or corporal punishment. Better yet, lets castrate the sex reoffenders like they do on NS!

Vigilance is the price of nationhood!

*Sealing the post with a Nazi salute, just to piss the f*ckin' liberals off!*

<snip>

Im not sure if this is a serious post or not :confused: but I sincerly hope that you are being sarcastic or devils advocate.

NZers have traditionally shown quite a bit of compassion towards people less fortunate than us.

Just because someone happened to be born into a country that is war torn and full of starving and persecuted people surely does not mean that they should be condemned to die??

What has someone done to live that kind of life? Personally I give quite a bit of moeny (and im only a student on very limited finances) towards trying to help people in other nations.

If all we can do to help is take someone in who will face death for no reason if they go back to their original country I think we should do that.

I would like to point out though that I am not saying we should harbour criminals. We need to investigate their history as best we can and if there is evidence that they have been involved in crime then I am very against helping them.

"Do unto other as you would for them to do to you" or something like that
:D

Edit: You talk about lefties etc, on every political test I have done I have come out centrist or slightly right.

No offence intended Communist Atlantis, but people like you in the coalition government are the reason why Winston Peters is so popular.

In every country, there's a fine line between immigration and people with suspicious backgrounds entering the country. Since Ahmed Zaoui, I have lost faith in our border security.

Traditional compassion? Compassion for any outsider is a simple ruse to make themselves look good. Every race does that. Inside the mind of every White man, whether overtly or covertly, they want the Asians and other immigrants out. If this country follows the Aussie way and drive the Maoris to the path of extinction, I wouldn't be here as well.

Why help those in other nations? The current population of the world ensures that we need the resources of four Earths to all live comfortably. Let the unfortunate ones die off, it's social Darwinism, just like in nature. Where's your fighting spirit? How do you know that charities aren't defrauding you? Every year, the richer nations of the world give so much, yet places like Africa never seems to be able to wean themselves off our teats. The only aid organization I trust is the Red Cross.

Student on limited finances? Does your typical White parents not care about your education? Student loans are a scam.

Im not sure if this is a serious post or not :confused: but I sincerly hope that you are being sarcastic or devils advocate.

No sarcasm there, son. Just good ole wise words from Sino. Nazi salutes sure piss the leftists off.

No offence intended Communist Atlantis, but people like you in the coalition government are the reason why Winston Peters is so popular.

There goes that typical acid versus base of politics. It always happens when one extreme fights another. The reason why we have goons like Destiny Church on the march is simply because they seem to be the only voice of the right currently present.

The conservatives (such as myself) are a dying breed. The further left the government goes out off tune with people like me, the further right I go.

Student on limited finances? Does your typical White parents not care about your education? Student loans are a scam.

student loans are another thing i oppose, what happened to government funded education, surely the $4.6b that the army wants can be diverted to education subsidies.

i really dont know why we need 100 LAVs, if we did what switzerland does and make 1 year of compulsary military training, then we wolud onyl need to maintian a very small defense force for UN peacekeeping, and at the same time, we wolud have a 1.5million strong fully trained army to defend ourselves from teh yanks after they give up on oil and come after our blacksand for hydrogen

and onto more military: why do we spend millions on skyhawks which we cannot afford to even train in with a peacetime economy. the only way someone otehr than australia is going to reach us is with slo international supply jets, or equally slow battleships.
we should bring back WW2 spitfires and luftwaffe, we could have hundreds at the same price as a few modern planes. and the only aircarft we would have to shoot down would be similarly slow. what have we to lose by doing this?

on a diffirent subject: how is it that corporate drones can call the unemployed leeches, no-one leeches our economy more than the huge empires of the tertiary sector. we need to increase tax on the service sector and increase subsidies on the costs of primary and secondary sector industry. if we produce more, and leech less, then our ecomony will improve, not by creating huge conglomerate businesses with all their overseas trade and etc

student loans are another thing i oppose, what happened to government funded education, surely the $4.6b that the army wants can be diverted to education subsidies.

i really dont know why we need 100 LAVs, if we did what switzerland does and make 1 year of compulsary military training, then we wolud onyl need to maintian a very small defense force for UN peacekeeping, and at the same time, we wolud have a 1.5million strong fully trained army to defend ourselves from teh yanks after they give up on oil and come after our blacksand for hydrogen

and onto more military: why do we spend millions on skyhawks which we cannot afford to even train in with a peacetime economy. the only way someone otehr than australia is going to reach us is with slo international supply jets, or equally slow battleships.
we should bring back WW2 spitfires and luftwaffe, we could have hundreds at the same price as a few modern planes. and the only aircarft we would have to shoot down would be similarly slow. what have we to lose by doing this?

on a diffirent subject: how is it that corporate drones can call the unemployed leeches, no-one leeches our economy more than the huge empires of the tertiary sector. we need to increase tax on the service sector and increase subsidies on the costs of primary and secondary sector industry. if we produce more, and leech less, then our ecomony will improve, not by creating huge conglomerate businesses with all their overseas trade and etc

I do support compulsory military training (that does not disrupt university education), as it'll whip some young buggers into shape and discipline. If it disrupts universiy however, then we're no better than the ROC military. Remember, those who aren't at uni are a majority.

LAVs were a cheap circumcision (a bloody rip off)! For a smaller price, we could have upgraded the M113s to be as capable as LAVs. I oppose the already excessive defense spending we have as policing and education are more important. I mean, who the hell's going to invade us? If we allow U.S. nuclear vessels in, we're fully protected. Why can our government be so foolish? Why any fighters when for a smaller price, we can set up a SAM network (even 70s medium range SAMs are affordable to NZ), right now, we have Mistral MANPADS, that can only attack transport aircraft and helicopters. But first thing's first, so target crime and concentrate on the enemies from within!

About your 1.5m army, that would end up like some NK (North Korean) military, with more men than rifles. If you want a military with decent equipment, 100,000 should be NZ's absolute maximum. By then, we would have to spend in competition with North Korea (in terms of GDP investe in the military). I don't know if you know about this, the U.S. military only has about 2 million men, and the 3 million Chinese military is downsizing to that figure for new technologies. The NKs may have 6 million in active service, but look at their antiquated WWII-'50s Soviet or Chinese crap.

We've also been too mesmerized by the pathetic duties with the UN. The first priority of our defense force is our defense, not to join in some Third World conflict that serves no purpose and always end up with a few of our boys killed.

There is a great budget surplus, but infrastructural needs have not been met. I'm an Aucklander, so don't get me started on this one. It costs $1B to build us another bridge into the city, while every year, the inefficiencies and delays to businesses and delieveries cost our economy $1B. Where's the long term solution? If the residents are patriotic, they can always make sacrifices for the nation's greater good and stop bitching about how it f*cks up their million dollar view.

For the last decade, my parents have paid somewhere around $100,000 in tax, that's enough to afford a house in some small town. Now we expect excellent public services, but we ain't gonna get none! Either the government start spending that money wisely (i.e. make the doel bludgers work and quit funding defunct facilities like Te Wananga) on public services, or give us the tax cuts/rebates that we so rightfully deserve.

I've had it up to here with Uncle Helen's commie shannanigans! If we're so damn equal as claimed by law, why are there separate tax rates? The corrupt 'Robin Hood' have gone into stealing from both the rich and poor. If there were tax cuts, the Stagecoach drivers wouldn't have struck.

Dude, I can see why your pissed, youve had heaps of right wing b/s forced down your throat. Lets do a little clearing of facts
In every country, there's a fine line between immigration and people with suspicious backgrounds entering the country. Since Ahmed Zaoui, I have lost faith in our border security.
I assume you mean he should be kicked out??
He was locked up because he was considered a terrorist. We heard that from the brits, who heard it from the french, who heard it from the algerians.

All the actual evidence found so far against him towards being a terrorist is that he led a political party that opposed the ruling government. He was then practically sentenced to death and escaped to aviod being executed.

according to the colins dictionary
Refugee
Someone who flees for refuge (shelter and/or protection) to another country, esp. from religious or political persecution

With the info we have at the moment kinda sounds like him
Traditional compassion? Compassion for any outsider is a simple ruse to make themselves look good. Every race does that. Inside the mind of every White man, whether overtly or covertly, they want the Asians and other immigrants out. If this country follows the Aussie way and drive the Maoris to the path of extinction, I wouldn't be here as well.

It is possible to do it from goodwill, I enjoy helping people and knowing that my money is helping people and isnt just being wasted on luxuries I dont need. I feel like this and Im sure others do too. I also have many asian, arab and polynesian friends. I would be very pissed if they all got kicked out. I genuinely believe that its not what you look like but how you act that distinguishes us from each other.
Why help those in other nations? The current population of the world ensures that we need the resources of four Earths to all live comfortably.
It is actually well known that the earth is not being fully utilised in terms of food production but currently we produce more than enough food to feed everyone on earth, and then some, just google it.

The problem is not supply, its distribution, the poor people just cant afford it.
Where's your fighting spirit? How do you know that charities aren't defrauding you? Every year, the richer nations of the world give so much, yet places like Africa never seems to be able to wean themselves off our teats. The only aid organization I trust is the Red Cross.
I aways check charities before I use them. I prefer to use friends the I know will do it properly and I get updates to make sure wat they say is actually happening, and talk to the people involved (the people im sponsoring) to make sure they are getting what they need.

The other thing I beleive is that governments and aid organisations are focussing too much on giving people food and not educating them how to grow it and giving them the tools they need. Give a man a fish, feed him for a say, teach a man how to fish and feed him for a life time
Student on limited finances? Does your typical White parents not care about your education? Student loans are a scam.
I dont believe in bludging off my parents. I want to earn my own way (this is where my rightist policies come in a little) I believe that if you arent willing to work and pay your way (im full time study and have a job. I dont believe in student loans either, thats what holidays are for) through education you dont deserve it. Why should other people have to subsidise people being lazy. I am also against not having to work for the DPB. If you want money from the government you can bloody well work for it.

In every country, there's a fine line between immigration and people with suspicious backgrounds entering the country. Since Ahmed Zaoui, I have lost faith in our border security.

Traditional compassion? Compassion for any outsider is a simple ruse to make themselves look good. Every race does that. Inside the mind of every White man, whether overtly or covertly, they want the Asians and other immigrants out. If this country follows the Aussie way and drive the Maoris to the path of extinction, I wouldn't be here as well.

Why help those in other nations? The current population of the world ensures that we need the resources of four Earths to all live comfortably. Let the unfortunate ones die off, it's social Darwinism, just like in nature. Where's your fighting spirit? How do you know that charities aren't defrauding you? Every year, the richer nations of the world give so much, yet places like Africa never seems to be able to wean themselves off our teats. The only aid organization I trust is the Red Cross.

Student on limited finances? Does your typical White parents not care about your education? Student loans are a scam.

We do not 'drive the aborginies to the path of extinction', they do that themselves. We try and stop them. On the resources staement we can only have 5 million more max, but only if we get the water problem right.

Dude, I can see why your pissed, youve had heaps of right wing b/s forced down your throat. Lets do a little clearing of facts

I assume you mean he should be kicked out??
He was locked up because he was considered a terrorist. We heard that from the brits, who heard it from the french, who heard it from the algerians.

All the actual evidence found so far against him towards being a terrorist is that he led a political party that opposed the ruling government. He was then practically sentenced to death and escaped to aviod being executed.

according to the colins dictionary
Refugee
Someone who flees for refuge (shelter and/or protection) to another country, esp. from religious or political persecution

With the info we have at the moment kinda sounds like him


It is possible to do it from goodwill, I enjoy helping people and knowing that my money is helping people and isnt just being wasted on luxuries I dont need. I feel like this and Im sure others do too. I also have many asian, arab and polynesian friends. I would be very pissed if they all got kicked out. I genuinely believe that its not what you look like but how you act that distinguishes us from each other.

It is actually well known that the earth is not being fully utilised in terms of food production but currently we produce more than enough food to feed everyone on earth, and then some, just google it.

The problem is not supply, its distribution, the poor people just cant afford it.

I aways check charities before I use them. I prefer to use friends the I know will do it properly and I get updates to make sure wat they say is actually happening, and talk to the people involved (the people im sponsoring) to make sure they are getting what they need.

The other thing I beleive is that governments and aid organisations are focussing too much on giving people food and not educating them how to grow it and giving them the tools they need. Give a man a fish, feed him for a say, teach a man how to fish and feed him for a life time

I dont believe in bludging off my parents. I want to earn my own way (this is where my rightist policies come in a little) I believe that if you arent willing to work and pay your way (im full time study and have a job. I dont believe in student loans either, thats what holidays are for) through education you dont deserve it. Why should other people have to subsidise people being lazy. I am also against not having to work for the DPB. If you want money from the government you can bloody well work for it.

In that case go for Oxfam. Only international worth it besides maybe Red Cross

Ahmed Zaoui entered the country on a false passport. That is clearly illegal, and usually results in deportation.

We do not 'drive the aborginies to the path of extinction', they do that themselves. We try and stop them. On the resources staement we can only have 5 million more max, but only if we get the water problem right.

Then explain the 'White Australia' policies and the cases of the stolen generation. The White Australian racial oppression of Aboriginal Australians is comparable to eugenics.

Ahmed Zaoui entered the country on a false passport. That is clearly illegal, and usually results in deportation.

A-f*ckin'-men to that! If he was truly a refugee, why go through the troubles of using a false passport? NZ is usually unreluctant to cases of political asylum. I fail to see Labour's logic in allowing him in.

It is actually well known that the earth is not being fully utilised in terms of food production but currently we produce more than enough food to feed everyone on earth, and then some, just google it.

The problem is not supply, its distribution, the poor people just cant afford it.

The other thing I beleive is that governments and aid organisations are focussing too much on giving people food and not educating them how to grow it and giving them the tools they need. Give a man a fish, feed him for a say, teach a man how to fish and feed him for a life time

I dont believe in bludging off my parents. I want to earn my own way (this is where my rightist policies come in a little) I believe that if you arent willing to work and pay your way (im full time study and have a job. I dont believe in student loans either, thats what holidays are for) through education you dont deserve it. Why should other people have to subsidise people being lazy. I am also against not having to work for the DPB. If you want money from the government you can bloody well work for it.

Do you know what's the world's actual problem? Too many f*ckin' c*nts! Like I said before, we currently need 4 Earths so that all people can live comfortably. I'm not referring to food alone, I meant all natural resources. If every Third World country follow the visionary Chinese one-child policy, there wouldn't be so many extra bastards born into suffering every year.

At least the Chinese are turning the tide in their population explosion, no other program have worked. When a population hits the West within the next half-century, they'll start fining parents for having too many kids too! If that's not working, the UN should even have to consider legalizing the war crime of mass sterilization. The hippie scum talk about saving the planet, they fail to see any obvious and decisive solutions.

Some nations like today's Ethiopia or North Korea, simply do not deserve aid. Ethiopia's agricultural production have risen greatly since the last severe drought, but the corrupt government line their pockets with the people's money, instead of building suitable irrigation canals. Do they deserve food aid? Why not give them guns and bombs and let them decide what's democractic?

Ah, North Korea, the armpit of Asia. That country's communist system sees the survival of the government as the first priority, they don't give a damn over people or land. Officially they blame 'natural disasters', unofficially that agricultural failures are financial mismanagements common in the former USSR and the former Maoist China. As I believe in only one Korea, not two. The unification lies with the noble South.

Over the past 50 years, it seems that few African countries managed to free themselves from the bondage of aid. I don't know for sure how some of these countries did it. Around a time when a lot of Europe's empire in Africa was crumbling, many African states have by comparison, jumped from the grying pan and into the fire. There is nothing wrong with nationalism and a struggle for a homeland, but at the same time the consequences have included the abandonment on economic security with a parent nation. When the economy sours, everything else follows. The now-anarchic DRC (Democratic Republic of Congo) is an example where the civlization brought in by the White man have left, leaving people that look human but are beasts. Amidst the warlordism (prominently tribal conflict revolving around resources and tribal hatred), cannibalism is commonly practiced by the victors. Brutal atrocities occur there daily, unabated by the trade of minerals and gemstones for weaponry. To some degree, Western imperialism/colonialism have actually brought in technology and civilization. Now imagine if White people never came to this land to colonize it, the cannibalistic Maori would continue their Stone Age existence. Despite their over-representative imperialism, Europeans are not the only civlized race in the world at the time. Do not forget that many Asian, North African and Middle Eastern civilizations flourished.

Those that live in endless toil fighting a failed cause of aiding the Third World, just don't understand that sometimes the methods should change.


I do admire you spirit of personal independence. To my conservative, Chinese parents, I should be as much of a studying machine as possible. Thus, they pay for my way in the education system (to ensure that financial problems do not cloud my already academic mind). It is also our tradition to advance the education of ones children as much as possible. That will be the case, even if I choose to enter post-graduate study.

May I enquire about where and what are you studying?

student loans are another thing i oppose, what happened to government funded education, surely the $4.6b that the army wants can be diverted to education subsidies.

i really dont know why we need 100 LAVs, if we did what switzerland does and make 1 year of compulsary military training, then we wolud onyl need to maintian a very small defense force for UN peacekeeping, and at the same time, we wolud have a 1.5million strong fully trained army to defend ourselves from teh yanks after they give up on oil and come after our blacksand for hydrogen

and onto more military: why do we spend millions on skyhawks which we cannot afford to even train in with a peacetime economy. the only way someone otehr than australia is going to reach us is with slo international supply jets, or equally slow battleships.
we should bring back WW2 spitfires and luftwaffe, we could have hundreds at the same price as a few modern planes. and the only aircarft we would have to shoot down would be similarly slow. what have we to lose by doing this?
-snip-
We need an Airforce it just came to my attention today that Australia would never have gotten involved in Timor if it wasnt for our Air Capabilities- they figured we were 25% of the necasary Air power required in the event of Trouble.
We also had 2 of the finest Squadrons in WWII 75 and another who partook DDay etc give mo info if anyone cares.
To Disband our Air strike capabilities is immoral and illogical and a stain on our fine History.

To Disband our Air strike capabilities is immoral and illogical and a stain on our fine History.

I dispute that, since those things are flying coffins. Prior to their abandonment, it was not the first time we've lost a Skyhawk on exercise. They were ageing, yes, but we have no replacement for them. The scrapping of Skyhawks have only given the Army the upperhand in buying lemons (LAVs).

I don't know who suggested in an earlier post about WWII aircraft, that's like forcing an old man to get into his olive drabs again! WWII aircraft have no way of escaping modern radar and SAMs. They carry only puny machineguns and bombs and fly at substandard speeds. Just one SRAAM from a '60s jet fighter is enough to turn them into aluminium scrap.

If you want to know anything about war planes, I said anything, go ask _Taiwan. I'm mostly into ground systems.

The Cold War is over, if we are to fight terror, then it should begin in the home, by giving more police funding and increasing police numbers. Our crime problems need to be dealt with drastically before we're succumbe to destruction by the enemies from within! We have the second highest inmate number per capita in the developed world (the highest being the USA), this is a great shame to the image of our fine (perceived as safe) national image. We're poor already, and you expect us to spend excessively on defense like North Korea? At least North Korea have fears of America, China, Japan and the South.

So which is of greater priority, defense force or police force? I'm sure we all know the correct answer.

Who watched Facelift last night? I think that shows becoming increasing biased towards making fun of Labour.


"Hmm... Subsidized lunches."

- Parakura Horomia, Facelight

He was locked up because he was considered a terrorist. We heard that from the brits, who heard it from the french, who heard it from the algerians.

What intel. service do we have compared to them? Without the sharing of intel., we won't be able to tell arse from elbow when it comes to foreign arrivals.

Ah but Sino just because we Ditch Skyhawks dosent mean we cant/couldnt upgrade to f-16s.

Something is better than nothing and the Skyhawk could tackle certain misssions obviously against another Fighter would be down but a close support unit for our LAV's(and any other vehicle) is logical.

Dont listen to the bleating in America about the Striker and how it sucks its different for one and you cant expect any vehicle to go into narrow streets any MBT or Heavy Tank would get chewed out just the same.

Mind you the M113's should have been upgraded and/or more purchased they are neat.

Anyone that thinks our APC are meant to be used against Tanks is a fool.
(not aimed at you)

Ah but Sino just because we Ditch Skyhawks dosent mean we cant/couldnt upgrade to f-16s.

Something is better than nothing and the Skyhawk could tackle certain misssions obviously against another Fighter would be down but a close support unit for our LAV's(and any other vehicle) is logical.

Dont listen to the bleating in America about the Striker and how it sucks its different for one and you cant expect any vehicle to go into narrow streets any MBT or Heavy Tank would get chewed out just the same.

Mind you the M113's should have been upgraded and/or more purchased they are neat.

Anyone that thinks our APC are meant to be used against Tanks is a fool.
(not aimed at you)

(Wow! Didn't know that some Kiwis are into weapons as much as _Taiwan and I.)

If the A-4Ks already cost too much then the F-16s won't come any cheaper. F-16s are outdated aircraft in the 21st Century. They can barely survive a dogfight against Russian fighters like Su-27/30. We can't afford fighters and that's a conclusion. I've always supported retrofitting the M113s for the new century, since they are a proven system. It also costs less and doesn't require so much retraining.

The case of the APC vs. MBT is not as simple as you think, let's not forget that the chassis have many uses. If an ATGM is armed (like many Russian and Chinese designs), then they can indeed challenge tanks. Although, that would rely on enough open terrain for a round to reach its target safely. However, in an open battlefield, the APC's thin armor will suffer the effects of tank rounds very quickly, the ATGM will still have a chance if it's a first fire instance. You can always dedicate an APC chassis to missile combat (ATGMs or SAMs), they're suppose to be very versatile vehicles, just excuse the reduced crew space. That would not be the case if a Russian, Chinese or Pakistani MBT is present, as they commonly fire ATGMs from their smoothbore. Keep in mind that despite more potent combat fittings, APCs are always battlefield taxis.

In assaults like Sadr City and other insurgency hotspots, a well hidden shooter (sniper or MG) can keep an entire squad from exitting their Bradley, despite IR imaging, urban environments provide too much cover for such sneak attacks. However, when the Abrams moved in, the insurgents simply fled in fear. One single 120mm DU round is enough to flush out any suspected enemies hiding. If anyone here thinks the JSF will replace MBTs in the next 20 years or so, think again. JSF may bust tanks well, but what's going to bust occupied buildings effectively?

If you want to build up a formidable military, then start with an adequate economy. If you're building a house, you don't half complete the foundations and suddenly start adding a roof. Nor should we disallow geniuses like Simpson (who built a cruise missile in his shed) to discontinue. If we have a knowledge economy (we need to start endorsing scientific education) and powerful industries, then we can have the expertise to develop our own systems. However, the tree hugging attitude of this country never changes, so we might as well go back to bread and butter issues.

If you can immobilize a modern MBT by sneaking up to it and jam scrap metal to the track(s), like what happened to T-54s in the Hungarian Uprising then that would really suck balls! I always have a preference for tracked vehicles.

(Wow! Didn't know that some Kiwis are into weapons as much as _Taiwan and I.)

If the A-4Ks already cost too much then the F-16s won't come any cheaper. F-16s are outdated aircraft in the 21st Century. They can barely survive a dogfight against Russian fighters like Su-27/30. We can't afford fighters and that's a conclusion. I've always supported retrofitting the M113s for the new century, since they are a proven system. It also costs less and doesn't require so much retraining.

The case of the APC vs. MBT is not as simple as you think, let's not forget that the chassis have many uses. If an ATGM is armed (like many Russian and Chinese designs), then they can indeed challenge tanks. Although, that would rely on enough open terrain for a round to reach its target safely. However, in an open battlefield, the APC's thin armor will suffer the effects of tank rounds very quickly, the ATGM will still have a chance if it's a first fire instance. You can always dedicate an APC chassis to missile combat (ATGMs or SAMs), they're suppose to be very versatile vehicles, just excuse the reduced crew space. That would not be the case if a Russian, Chinese or Pakistani MBT is present, as they commonly fire ATGMs from their smoothbore. Keep in mind that despite more potent combat fittings, APCs are always battlefield taxis.

In assaults like Sadr City and other insurgency hotspots, a well hidden shooter (sniper or MG) can keep an entire squad from exitting their Bradley, despite IR imaging, urban environments provide too much cover for such sneak attacks. However, when the Abrams moved in, the insurgents simply fled in fear. One single 120mm DU round is enough to flush out any suspected enemies hiding. If anyone here thinks the JSF will replace MBTs in the next 20 years or so, think again. JSF may bust tanks well, but what's going to bust occupied buildings effectively?

If you want to build up a formidable military, then start with an adequate economy. If you're building a house, you don't half complete the foundations and suddenly start adding a roof. Nor should we disallow geniuses like Simpson (who built a cruise missile in his shed) to discontinue. If we have a knowledge economy (we need to start endorsing scientific education) and powerful industries, then we can have the expertise to develop our own systems. However, the tree hugging attitude of this country never changes, so we might as well go back to bread and butter issues.
Yeah i most certainly realise you couldnt/shouldnt/wouldnt put a Skyhawk up against anything really but as a close support role it could do the job.

Im not sure what a JSF is....
APC are Taxis and they dont have large guns like Abrams,Challenger,Leopard etc

Re-equiping the Scorpions wouldnt be such a bad idea as well for fast deployment but something a bit bigger is necassary.

Ah Simpson.

Yeah i most certainly realise you couldnt/shouldnt/wouldnt put a Skyhawk up against anything really but as a close support role it could do the job.

Im not sure what a JSF is....
APC are Taxis and they dont have large guns like Abrams,Challenger,Leopard etc

Re-equiping the Scorpions wouldnt be such a bad idea as well for fast deployment but something a bit bigger is necassary.

Ah Simpson.

In a more developed future NZ, we shall revere Simpson like Rutherford. That man was a visionary, but the hippies had to crush his work, thus crushing our reputation.

http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/systems/aircraft/f-35.htm The JSF is likely to be designated F-35. Currently Lockheed Martin's proposal is defeating that of Boeing's.

Skyhawk was originally a ground strike or maritime attacker, but let's not forget that these old birds need to swoop low to bomb, making them vulnerable to AAA fire, not to mention, MANPADS. I doubt that NZ or Australia could afford the best ECM pods for them to evade some SAMs.

A few good ATGM-based APC can me a tank regiments nightmare, if there's good gunner to driver co-operation as their chassis are lighter and more agile, capable of firing on the move and dodging tanks. If IFVs (similar to APCs) are of Russian or Chinese origin, they can have up to 100mm rifled main guns (also ATGM capable).

What Scorpion tank (there's several tanks of that name, so it's rather ambiguous)? You got links? I heard about our ones getting their main guns concreted.

Ah but Sino just because we Ditch Skyhawks dosent mean we cant/couldnt upgrade to f-16s.

You guys do realise that we ordered 28 (i think) f-16C's from the US just before Clark go in for the first time. They were leased from the states for 10 years (for about $250million NZ i think), including training for our pilots to get the hang of them, and then we had first option to buy them at the end of the lease period.

When helen clark got in cancelling that order was one of the first things she did (costing us about $50million penalty fee)

You guys do realise that we ordered 28 (i think) f-16C's from the US just before Clark go in for the first time. They were leased from the states for 10 years (for about $250million NZ i think), including training for our pilots to get the hang of them, and then we had first option to buy them at the end of the lease period.

When helen clark got in cancelling that order was one of the first things she did (costing us about $50million penalty fee)

The Americans are real winners here. The F-16s were already costing us too much, we scrapped that but bought the LAVs, which costed us even more. We Kiwis are a silly bunch. Uncle Sam made money off our backs like we make money from our sheep's backs.

Now dammit, LAVs weren't bought from the Warehouse, so there won't be any 'refunds'.

<snip>

I am doing Electrical Engineering in Canterbury.

Do you have any sources for any of the information about needing 4 earths worth of resources (No, things like the KKK website arent good resources :p)?
Everything I have read says that we currently have tons of capacity (i can provide numerous resources including the UN if you want) and the problem is purely distribution, we have too much and waste it all, not that we are short of resources.

My I enquire as to your heritage?? It sounds like your Chinese or something, If so its amazing how white surpremiced you are. Remember that histrically some of the noteworth civilisations are non european (Chinese, Egyptians, Mayans, Aztecs .....)

-snip-
What Scorpion tank (there's several tanks of that name, so it's rather ambiguous)? You got links? I heard about our ones getting their main guns concreted.
British of 1969 origin not the WWII ones with the flail designed off the Matilda.

http://irish.typepad.com/photos/events/scorpiontank.jpg

http://www.geocities.com/opus224/armor.htm *

*4th Down!
30 76 and 90mm guns have been fixed to it at times maybe more.

I am doing Electrical Engineering in Canterbury.

Do you have any sources for any of the information about needing 4 earths worth of resources (No, things like the KKK website arent good resources :p)?
Everything I have read says that we currently have tons of capacity (i can provide numerous resources including the UN if you want) and the problem is purely distribution, we have too much and waste it all, not that we are short of resources.

My I enquire as to your heritage?? It sounds like your Chinese or something, If so its amazing how white surpremiced you are. Remember that histrically some of the noteworth civilisations are non european (Chinese, Egyptians, Mayans, Aztecs .....)

Engineering student, huh? I never expected that someone of my field of study would actually be here. _Taiwan and I are first year engineering students at the University of Auckland. Canterbury was a my second choice, when I was applying for engineering.

About needing 4 Earths, I saw that in a Powerpoint presented by Tony Gibson, Chairman of IPENZ. I am aware that great civilizations have included many non-White ones, but by the 1500s, the Europeans were already exerting their clear cut technological superiority.

By all means, I'm not a racist, in fact, I'm very pro-Israel. I admire the Nazis for their uniforms, Hitlerist nationalism (not racism) and image of discipline. I have an interest in defense information and weapon systems. Hell, someday I might even consider becoming a Territorial officer. Don't worry, kid. I may be Chinese by race, but I'm as Kiwi as you and more willing to give my life for NZ.

*4th Down!
30 76 and 90mm guns have been fixed to it at times maybe more.

What B.S. calibres! Modern tanks need at least 100mm or 105mm rifled. They must also be capable of firing APFSDS, HE, HEAT and (yes, ripping off the Chinese again) ATGMs.

The Americans are real winners here. The F-16s were already costing us too much, we scrapped that but bought the LAVs, which costed us even more. We Kiwis are a silly bunch. Uncle Sam made money off our backs like we make money from our sheep's backs.

Now dammit, LAVs weren't bought from the Warehouse, so there won't be any 'refunds'.

The F-16's may have been costing us too much but I am a firm beleiver that if someone attacks us, they either are or have beaten australia.

If someone beats Australia and gets to us we are royally f**ked.

We may as well either just pay america to protect us, or suck american dick enough so that if anyone poses a threat, and they dont protect aussie (can see that happening but aussic could piss them off) then they will atleast save us.

The only point of us having a military is so that we can keep up international relations

Engineering student, huh? I never expected that someone of my field of study would actually be here. _Taiwan and I are first year engineering students at the University of Auckland. Canterbury was a my second choice, when I was applying for engineering.
yeah, I didnt think they would be many other one either, canterbury was my first choice as I live here
About needing 4 Earths, I saw that in a Powerpoint presented by Tony Gibson, Chairman of IPENZ. I am aware that great civilizations have included many non-White ones, but by the 1500s, the Europeans were already exerting their clear cut technological superiority.
In terms of resources, I dont know how much expertise IPENZ has in this field, but as its not really related to engineering (Heaps of engineering materials steal, iron etc) I would trust things like FAO and other UN departments more.

By all means, I'm not a racist, in fact, I'm very pro-Israel. I admire the Nazis for their uniforms, Hitlerist nationalism (not racism) and image of discipline. I have an interest in defense information and weapon systems. Hell, someday I might even consider becoming a Territorial officer. Don't worry, kid. I may be Chinese by race, but I'm as Kiwi as you and more willing to give my life for NZ.

I was never attacking your Kiwiness (dont know if thats a word :confused: ) and I am very sorry if I came off like that. I am pro-discipline as well, I am just against people suffering from poverty when we live in relative wealth.

And I actually started applying to join the territorials when I broke my leg (on a motorbike and a truck ran an intersection, apparently its uncommon for the motorcyclist to come off better than the truck driver :eek: :p)

We'll be royally f*cked even if we have the systems on hand. But who's going to attack us? This ain't the Cold War and we certainly don't piss Muslims off.

We must suck America's cock for defense since ANZUS, but we can either let their nucelar ships in or make America richer by blowing our economy on stuff that'll make us poor. Let's go with the cheaper and less energetic option of allowing America become our protector officially and let in the nuclear ships.

Our military does piss all internationally these days. In WWII, we were effectively Britain's child, but we've grown up now, and we make our own decisions.

And I actually started applying to join the territorials when I broke my leg (on a motorbike and a truck ran an intersection, apparently its uncommon for the motorcyclist to come off better than the truck driver :eek: :p)

Just before you're going to, please don't use the usual blame of some Asian driver being involved. LOL!

There's a fellow student in my year who's a Terry. He's a Pvt. and a Mog driver.

British of 1969 origin not the WWII ones with the flail designed off the Matilda.

http://irish.typepad.com/photos/events/scorpiontank.jpg

http://www.geocities.com/opus224/armor.htm *

*4th Down!
30 76 and 90mm guns have been fixed to it at times maybe more.

Scorpians are s**t, I dont even know you are discussing them, youd probably be more dangerous armed with a rock than 4 soldiers in a scorpian :p
(ok, thats a massive over exaggeration but you get my point)

I have many friends in the army (read "Shooting from the lip" i think its called, by a guy in NZ army, its halarious but focusses on the shinanagans they got up to) and they talk about things like for training with tanks they would strap the long cardbaord rolls to the front of an APC and pretend it was a tank. Hardly the sign of a good army.

BTW, the Navy got Warbird over Wanaka to fly some Vampires (Yes, The twin engined prop planes) because they were the closed in the country to modern fighters. Again not really the sign of a good defence force

In terms of resources, I dont know how much expertise IPENZ has in this field, but as its not really related to engineering (Heaps of engineering materials steal, iron etc) I would trust things like FAO and other UN departments more.

It was a presentation related to resource management and infrastructural overhauls, there's already not enough resources in many nations.

Scorpians are s**t, I dont even know you are discussing them, youd probably be more dangerous armed with a rock than 4 soldiers in a scorpian :p
(ok, thats a massive over exaggeration but you get my point)

I have many friends in the army (read "Shooting from the lip" i think its called, by a guy in NZ army, its halarious but focusses on the shinanagans they got up to) and they talk about things like for training with tanks they would strap the long cardbaord rolls to the front of an APC and pretend it was a tank. Hardly the sign of a good army.

BTW, the Navy got Warbird over Wanaka to fly some Vampires (Yes, The twin engined prop planes) because they were the closed in the country to modern fighters. Again not really the sign of a good defence force

We never had much of a defense force. In WWII, the Germans and Jap subs penetrated our waters many times. For a better investment, let's fund the police force more. So that we don't have to worry about burglaries, rapes and murders so much.

It used to be paradise here, then crime went up and we're no so free anymore.

BTW, this is completely off topic, but I have a puppet nation Beaten Souls that I want to start war rping with, would any of you guys be able to help me get started?

some stats r population 1,315,000,000
Government type Corporate Police State
Tax Rate 19%
Defence spending $3,667,786,080,840 or 48% of government budget
GDP Per Capita $24,252.03 (not sure what happened there, usually its about 30,000)

You guys do realise that we ordered 28 (i think) f-16C's from the US just before Clark go in for the first time. They were leased from the states for 10 years (for about $250million NZ i think), including training for our pilots to get the hang of them, and then we had first option to buy them at the end of the lease period.

When helen clark got in cancelling that order was one of the first things she did (costing us about $50million penalty fee)

thats a typical national attitude.

national gets in on lies, then they cut taxes, cut welfare, take out loans and appoint shithead ministers.

then labour gets back in, and are forced to raise taxes even highre to cover the cost of loans, and it is at this time that national makes another "this only happens under labour" speech, gets back in and does it all over again.

basically, the capitalist bastards in national areu screwing us socialists over, then blaming us for their own actions.
**********************************************
back to warfare: more affective than any weapons we can buy, is an alliance with russia. we give them a few million, then they keep their nukes operational and we get behind their deterrents. if the yanks attack us, through our alliance, russia wolud nuke their capital. the americans would be about as likely to attack us as a country without any resources

We never had much of a defense force. In WWII, the Germans and Jap subs penetrated our waters many times. For a better investment, let's fund the police force more. So that we don't have to worry about burglaries, rapes and murders so much.

It used to be paradise here, then crime went up and we're no so free anymore.

I dont think I said or implied we have ever had a decent defence force but meh.

I agree with you completly, what I was trying to say was that we should contract the US or someone else to do our defending as there isnt any point us trying. And our police are incredibly underfunded.

Parliment keep passing more laws even though the current ones arent being enforced. Laws have no effect if you dont have the police there to enforce them.

thats a typical national attitude.

national gets in on lies, then they cut taxes, cut welfare, take out loans and appoint shithead ministers.

then labour gets back in, and are forced to raise taxes even highre to cover the cost of loans, and it is at this time that national makes another "this only happens under labour" speech, gets back in and does it all over again.

basically, the capitalist bastards in national areu screwing us socialists over, then blaming us for their own actions.
Doing that (apart from the loans) is the right wing attitude, and not nessarily bad.
The taking out loans, apart from Muldoon (who screwed our country) the national party hasnt been too bad, thats why we have been able to pay off a huge amount of debt in the last 30 years under a majority of National Party rule

back to warfare: more affective than any weapons we can buy, is an alliance with russia. we give them a few million, then they keep their nukes operational and we get behind their deterrents. if the yanks attack us, through our alliance, russia wolud nuke their capital. the americans would be about as likely to attack us as a country without any resources
maybe 30 years ago, I dont know if you relised, but Russia is no longer the military super power they were, their gear is old and poorly maintained, there is massive problems within thier ranks and apart from nuclear missiles, they dont really have any good gear. We would be best to use USA, EU or China

Parliment keep passing more laws even though the current ones arent being enforced. Laws have no effect if you dont have the police there to enforce them.

It doesn't cost a cent to allow U.S. nuclear vessels in (and defend us), so why bother spending all those millions on things that will be of limited help to us. There's more radiation released into our waters by cancer patients per years, than any U.S. naval visit will ever commit.

Like I said before, sombody needs to tell 'em boys in blue to go after the drug dealers and not wax their batons when they're on government computers. Some members of the public have even suggested a police reserve (like the Territorials). That'll keep those teenage booze parties from spilling into the streets on weekend nights.

We would be best to use USA, EU or China

Most Chinese stuff suck (but are cheap) and that country's got an arseload of endless political troubles. When they start selling bullets, America screams like a little girl and give the usual invalid criticism. The arms market is an effective American monopoly.

back to warfare: more affective than any weapons we can buy, is an alliance with russia. we give them a few million, then they keep their nukes operational and we get behind their deterrents. if the yanks attack us, through our alliance, russia wolud nuke their capital. the americans would be about as likely to attack us as a country without any resources

This is not like playing NS! Russian doesn't care about us. The U.S. won't attack NZ, since we support their war against terror. Bush is a warmongering wanker, but even a wanker needs friends.

We would be in less debt if the idiots stop using credit cards. What is it with White people spending on things they can't afford? The Asian attitude is obsessed with saving.

It doesn't cost a cent to allow U.S. nuclear vessels in (and defend us), so why bother spending all those millions on things that will be of limited help to us. There's more radiation released into our waters by cancer patients per years, than any U.S. naval visit will ever commit.

I have no problems with that, I personally dont see anything wrong with nuclear ships being here, even nuclear power plants arent that evil, if they are well maintained and the operators are well trained then they are probably more safe than a dam, or natural gas plant

Most Chinese stuff suck (but are cheap) and that country's got an arseload of endless political troubles. When they start selling bullets, America screams like a little girl and give the usual invalid criticism. The arms market is an effective American monopoly.

The Chinese military is relatively well organised. Im not saying they could take down the Americans but one on one they could beat any other country, including modern Russia.

And any issues in terms of being attacked would be from south asia, someone like indonesia takin out aussie and then taking us for agricultural rsources and because we would be a logical launching pad for the US or someone trying to get aussie back

The Chinese military is relatively well organised. Im not saying they could take down the Americans but one on one they could beat any other country, including modern Russia.

And any issues in terms of being attacked would be from south asia, someone like indonesia takin out aussie and then taking us for agricultural rsources and because we would be a logical launching pad for the US or someone trying to get aussie back

http://www.sinodefence.com/news/2005/news29-03-05a.jpg
Above: USS Blue Ridge (USN 7th Fleet's flagship) in a recent visit to a Chinese naval port.

The Chinese military only has endless numbers of men with poor grades at school but a serious attitude about dying for their country. The Chinese are not looking at things internationally when things like Taiwan still piss them off.

The Chinese forces are very outdated (1960s) but modernizing slowly. Their defense budget only barely matches up to that of U.K. or Japan. The Chinese air force and navy are purely defensive of their homeland, unlike Russian and America fleets of carriers operating across the world. The Chinese WMD arsenal may be more advanced than Britain or France, but the numbers don't matter compared to U.S. or Russia (talkin' about ICBMs).

The summary with China's defense is that no one can fight their way in, but the Chinese can't fight their way out. This is likely to continue for the next two decades before any significant modernizations in the Chinese military is complete.

Indonesia's the armpit of South East Asia. They may have large numbers, but rest assured, Australia won't capitulate so quickly. Besides, Indonesia's scared sh*tless of America (their Muslims are also under suspicion). Indonesia may be densely populated, but they have plenty of jungle to expand into. Indonesia also has problems with separatists and religious extremists, so that's gonna keep them busy for a long time!

If you don't have a leader like Saddam, then governments think about the political repercussions of their actions. Indonesia certainly doesn't want a China, ANZUS and EU (possibly) alliance formed to liberate Australia and NZ and then carve their own country up with occupying forces. Indonesians may be rabid barbarians of South East Asia, but they would be a lot smarter than that. Remember, we live in an age of unprecedented U.S. superiority. The World Police also abuses power (keeps everyone at bay).

I have no problems with that, I personally dont see anything wrong with nuclear ships being here, even nuclear power plants arent that evil, if they are well maintained and the operators are well trained then they are probably more safe than a dam, or natural gas plant

Funny how I was doing my project on Chernobyl when you mentioned that. France is has the safest nuclear record in years, they have over 50 reactors and that supplies close to 70% of their power. China's first reactor was bought from France. The moral of Chernobyl is only use a Western reactor.

Western reactors (unlike the RMBK reactors at Chernobyl) have secondary shielding. So if it blows, there's near perfect containment.

If we have a reactor, they should hire Asians. They don't get on the booze when working. LOL!

On a serious note, there will be one day in human history when nuclear power serve all our energy needs. As Kiwis, where's the pioneering scientific spirit of our forefathers like Rutherford and Brjtten?

Problem:
If New Zealand was to get Nuclear, we would probably go for the cheapest equipement, and then find that we get a melt down a few years down the track.
New Zealands main problem is we do not look to the future.

Thats why we needed to put the eastern coridor in for Auckland.

P.S.
Nice to see there are some fellow Kiwis here!

if NZ gose nuclear, then although we wolud have slightly more power, the cost of uranium from australia wolud, im sure, outweigh the money lost in ecotourism

New Zealands main problem is we do not look to the future.

Thats why we needed to put the eastern coridor in for Auckland.

P.S.
Nice to see there are some fellow Kiwis here!

We need more than the Eastern corridor, we need a second harbor bridge. Auckland is one of the most poorly planned major cities in the world. Intersections don't match up, crooked streets, no place for public transport, not enough parking spaces and congested motorways. In this country, good ideas are often hampered by too much democracy, the RMA and an over active beaurucracy. If you take a snapshot of Auckland City from across the bridge, compare that with a photograph from the same location, taken 20 years ago. The only difference is the Sky Tower. 20 years from now, I doubt there would be any significant changes. Our people are afraid of developments and improvements. Hang your heads in shame, Kiwis! The rest of the world is constantly beating us!

And yes, I'm a (very patriotic) Kiwi, a Yellow Kiwi in fact.

if NZ gose nuclear, then although we wolud have slightly more power, the cost of uranium from australia wolud, im sure, outweigh the money lost in ecotourism

By the time we have a reactor, most of the world would be nuclearized. The radioactive gold would be the petroleum of power generation. Besides, many African countries can supply us cheap uranium, that's one continent we do not have enough relations with.

What B.S. calibres! Modern tanks need at least 100mm or 105mm rifled. They must also be capable of firing APFSDS, HE, HEAT and (yes, ripping off the Chinese again) ATGMs.
Dude its a baby tank do you even tread what people say?
Its Light man,light like i said!
1969 isnt very modern well call it a Tankette. ;)

Dude its a baby tank do you even tread what people say?
Its Light man,light like i said!
1969 isnt very modern well call it a Tankette. ;)

Damn Scorpions! An M60A1 or T-55 can easily eat one of those for breakfast.

Damn Scorpions! An M60A1 or T-55 can easily eat one of those for breakfast.
Sure but it aint an MBT nor was it intended to be.

Sure but it aint an MBT nor was it intended to be.

Light tanks are old WWII-Vietnam concepts and tankettes have virtually disappeared after WWII. The only use of light tanks is either airborne or amphibious assaults. Here's some Chinese and American examples that are still potent (tiny but mighty):

http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/systems/ground/m8-ags.htm
http://www.sinodefence.com/army/tank/type63a.asp

Light tanks are old WWII-Vietnam concepts and tankettes have virtually disappeared after WWII. The only use of light tanks is either airborne or amphibious assaults. Here's some Chinese and American examples that are still potent (tiny but mighty):

http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/systems/ground/m8-ags.htm
http://www.sinodefence.com/army/tank/type63a.asp
dude im sure i said that.....

dude im sure i said that.....

Those were light tanks, I posted. Not MBTs.

Anybody interested in a values discussion?

http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=423215

Being a policeman is a great job in this country. You get a starting salary of $40,000, get to don a uniform that women admire, won't get in any trouble for beating up Maoris and when you're not doing that, you can sit in the office and wax your batton, since you've got high speed internet connection (for porn).

With Labour now behind National in the polls, looks like they're trying to steal NZ First's support!

http://tvnz.co.nz/view/page/411319/591921/
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/index.cfm?c_id=1&ObjectID=10330647

With Labour now behind National in the polls, looks like they're trying to steal NZ First's support!

http://tvnz.co.nz/view/page/411319/591921/
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/index.cfm?c_id=1&ObjectID=10330647
Im going to vote National Front!
I got this wierd arsed flyer in the mail about 6 weeks ago about how we should be all cosy with America because they can save us.
Im none to sure.

So who would you pick as winner for the General Election?

I would like to see Don Brash lead the Nats to victory, but I am unconvinced he has got what it takes and probably won't hold out until then - he's starting to drop in the polls already ["Stick to Kiwi fruit Don!"]. I think Helen 'ill be back, again. I wouldn't be too bothered if Labour did win, but all their 'think pink' and PC crap sometimes goes a little too far for my liking.

Well, I'm gay, and I'm voting for either National or Act. I'm sick and tired of helping the stupid and lazy; why should I get ass raped to the tune of $90 each week to fun Nicole Chav and her 4 illigitimate children, or Peter Pot Heads "artistic skills" whilst on the dole.

Im going to vote National Front!
I got this wierd arsed flyer in the mail about 6 weeks ago about how we should be all cosy with America because they can save us.
Im none to sure.

Hey! I'm a Kiwi too, ya know.

About that flyer, it was bloody ridiculous.

Well, I'm gay, and I'm voting for either National or Act. I'm sick and tired of helping the stupid and lazy; why should I get ass raped to the tune of $90 each week to fun Nicole Chav and her 4 illigitimate children, or Peter Pot Heads "artistic skills" whilst on the dole.

I agree that we shouldn't fund these bastards that want an easy life, while the rest of us have to work. Better yet, let's make them work. Instead of contracting some public works (even planting trees), it should be their turn to get their hands dirty. That'll teach 'em. (It's also more cost effective for the government, instead of paying contractors.)

I'm sorry to hear that you've got that condition, young man. I suggest you seek psychological help ASAP.

Well, I'm gay, and I'm voting for either National or Act. I'm sick and tired of helping the stupid and lazy; why should I get ass raped to the tune of $90 each week to fun Nicole Chav and her 4 illigitimate children, or Peter Pot Heads "artistic skills" whilst on the dole.
Thats funny!

After weeks of watching Facelift, I think I can impersonate Don Brash's voice quite well. LOL!

Thats funny!

Which part? The fact that he was gay or the comment he made about the welfare system?

Hey! I'm a Kiwi too, ya know.

About that flyer, it was bloody ridiculous.
They arent HAters they are just White Lovers!
And besides one of the Guys views is affecting his young sons ability to make friends thats sad the kid has nothing to do with it but i wouldnt want my kids near a house like that!

No one really apeals to me i dont know who to vote for!

Have you seen that advertisement of a black silhouette of man in a position of haka? I saw posters of it on the streets and I thought, "Hmm, looks like there's a constipation epidemic in the country!"

(Go the All Blacks!!!)

Which part? The fact that he was gay or the comment he made about the welfare system?
Really all of it not as a collective comment but by dissecting all the little statements inside of it!
Mostly Arseraape though.

No one really apeals to me i dont know who to vote for!

Then don't bloody vote.


"It is enough that the people know there was an election. The people who cast the votes decide nothing. The people who count the votes decide everything.”

- J. V. Stalin

I saw pamphlets for signing up to count votes on election day. It seems tempting. LOL!

On another note, I feel like talking in Don Brash's voice for the rest of the week!

Have you seen that advertisement of a black silhouette of man in a position of haka? I saw posters of it on the streets and I thought, "Hmm, looks like there's a constipation epidemic in the country!"

(Go the All Blacks!!!)
Meh!

Worst kept secret ever!
That farm debacle ruined the surprise!

Go the Lions!(Wellington)

Really all of it not as a collective comment but by dissecting all the little statements inside of it!
Mostly Arseraape though.

He's probably sarcastic about being gay, seeing that he used that word. Instead of going with Georgy Boy's suggestion of funding for every bloody transgender operation, we should have two choices:

1. There's countless people on surgical waiting lists. One less tranny in our midst meant another life given a life saving operation!

2. Use that money to fund rehab programs for the gays and transgender wannabes. That's the productive way to go!

Then don't bloody vote.


"It is enough that the people know there was an election. The people who cast the votes decide nothing. The people who count the votes decide everything.”

- J. V. Stalin

I saw pamphlets for signing up to count votes on election day. It seems tempting. LOL!

On another note, I feel like talking in Don Brash's voice for the rest of the week!
Yes i shall vote to legalise Cannabis Go Aoetearoa Legalise!

I dont really like it but this country needs some drastic changes!

Go the Lions!(Wellington)

Their great grandfathers bet the Maoris with muskets but it was sweet revenge in the weekend on the rugby field.

Yes i shall vote to legalise Cannabis Go Aoetearoa Legalise!

That's a vote for anarchy and debauchery. We need a bigger police force to tackle the drugs problem and more forest rangers to clear out that weed infestation.

John Tamihere does it again!

(If he was in National I'd vote for him)

That's a vote for anarchy and debauchery. We need a bigger police force to tackle the drugs problem and more forest rangers to clear out that weed infestation.
Damn right someone needs to crack some heads open!

You know what is really a Cop out?

Abortion: when the act was passed it was intended to be for those As depressed or something like that not for these Tramps who are like doing everyone left right and centre!

Unless its Nazi Germany's policy of No Abortions for Germans but the Undesirables can go nuts.-Weeds out the lesser beings...

I agree that we shouldn't fund these bastards that want an easy life, while the rest of us have to work. Better yet, let's make them work. Instead of contracting some public works (even planting trees), it should be their turn to get their hands dirty. That'll teach 'em. (It's also more cost effective for the government, instead of paying contractors.)

Planting trees and pulling out goarse bushes; hell, just look around Upper Hutt; the damn stuff is an eye sore. How about getting them to go out and shoot possums, thats another fine one the could do. Heaps of jobs out there to be done.

For me, I was on the dole for a grand total of 3 weeks before I found my job (after arriving back from Australia). If one gets off ones ass, one can find a job - its not that hard.

I'm sorry to hear that you've got that condition, young man. I suggest you seek psychological help ASAP.

What one? the conflict between being gay and libertarian? wanting to shrink that damn government so that it can be drowned in a bath tub?

Really all of it not as a collective comment but by dissecting all the little statements inside of it!
Mostly Arseraape though.

I'm all for the occasionally bit of buggery on the side, but when I earn $454 per week, I get $90 taken off me, thus reducing my take home pay to $364, I don't know about you, but it sure as hell feels like an ass raping.

I have no qualms paying taxes, but $90 per week is far too much.

He's probably sarcastic about being gay, seeing that he used that word.

No, I am actually gay :P <waits for the scream of shock> :P

Instead of going with Georgy Boy's suggestion of funding for every bloody transgender operation, we should have two choices:

1. There's countless people on surgical waiting lists. One less tranny in our midst meant another life given a life saving operation!

2. Use that money to fund rehab programs for the gays and transgender wannabes. That's the productive way to go!

If people want to chop off their dick, and re-arrange it to another location, shape or size, it is up to the individual to cover the costs, just as it should be the individual covering the costs of having a child or wanting to have time off to have a child; these are choices by the individual, there fore, they should pay for themselves.

What one? the conflict between being gay and libertarian?

The conflict of being gay and human. 'Tis not natural nor moral. Libertarianism is a prelude to anarchy.

If zis vas Nazi Germany, you vouldn't be here, ja.

Q: Why did Hitler send the gays into the camps before the Jews?
A: At least Jews dress as their own gender and don't go f*cking each other up the arse!

No, I am actually gay :P <waits for the scream of shock> :P

Don't forget to wait for the gunfire too! LOL.

http://www.sinodefence.com/army/individual/type63_rifle762_6.jpg

You're the one who's gay here. The rest of the men here don't need to be screwed in the arse or some sh*t on their dicks to achieve an orgasm.

Wow. This thread has degenerated into pure ignorance.

Don't forget to wait for the gunfire too! LOL.

http://www.sinodefence.com/army/individual/type63_rifle762_6.jpg

You're the one who's gay here. The rest of the men here don't need to be screwed in the arse or some sh*t on their dicks to achieve an orgasm.

Jealous of the fact that you couldn't get a fuck, even with a $50 note attached to your dick?

Libertarianism is individuals looking after their own shit, instead of having people like you expecing big brother to go around, whiping your ass, and looking after your stuff ups you make in your life.

About that flyer, it was bloody ridiculous.

damn straight, it was the most ignorant bullshit propogand ive read sinec the start of the year. looks like national is trying to brainwash us again.

it should have read:
america has:
refused to regocnise the aussie labour govt until 1975
toppled a democracy in chile to allow their dictator to give them better trade deals
dragged us into the vietnamese revolution to protect a tiny christian capitalist minority, and in donig so, killed thousands of civilians who didnt even care who ran the country
toppled a corrupt dictatorship in iraq, to kill 150,000 civilians and then enstate their own puppet dictators who give them cheap oil
frequently uses fyear tactics to keep their citizens tooo scared of 'terrorists' to realise what a shithole the country has become.


and after their whole bitch about the greatness of americas army, they say that we should spend endless amounts of money to build up a defense froce to defend ourselves when the only ones with the means and motive to do so is AMERICA!

damn straight, it was the most ignorant bullshit propogand ive read sinec the start of the year. looks like national is trying to brainwash us again.

That had religious overtones, so it can't be the Blues. I think that piece of sh*t was set up by the Reds in order to trick people into thinking that it came from the Blues.

If it was National discussing a trade deal with China, they won't bring up sh*t like 'human rights'.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/2/27/Chinese_insurgency_1989.gif

And if I remembered correctly, during 'Nam, it was the Labour government's decision to get our arses involved.

Jealous of the fact that you couldn't get a fuck, even with a $50 note attached to your dick?

I'm not married, so I don't need to f*ck. Liberterianism promotes degeneracy and social corruption. I may not be White but I can see that Western culture is decaying with liberalism.

and after their whole bitch about the greatness of americas army, they say that we should spend endless amounts of money to build up a defense froce to defend ourselves when the only ones with the means and motive to do so is AMERICA!

You must agree, the U.S. military is one of the mightiest in world history. I'm not an advocate of unprecedented defense spending as that'll turn us into another North Korea, but we should get on America's good side, as we do need to rely on them for defense.

Because tactless commies like you talk this usual kind of sh*t, Labour has offended the U.S. before. You should be glad that the Chinese leadership is more tolerant. Ever heard of trade, Mr. Commie?

John Tamihere does it again!

(If he was in National I'd vote for him)

I don't know what you're thinkin', I see that so far, Mr. Goff's image and record is clean. He looks more statesmanlike and respectable than Tamihere any day of the week.

Since the current week of politics is rather bland, we all play NS, right? Good! Let's see who's country would be the best choice for a future NZ:

JRV:

"Money. We're in it for the money."

UN Category: Left-Leaning College State
Civil Rights: Superb
Economy: Strong
Political Freedoms: Very Good

The Proud Atlanta Republic of JRV is a massive, socially progressive nation, notable for its devotion to social welfare. Its compassionate, hard-working, intelligent population of 2.193 billion enjoy extensive civil freedoms, particularly in social issues, while business tends to be more regulated.

It is difficult to tell where the omnipresent government stops and the rest of society begins, but it juggles the competing demands of Social Welfare, Defence, and Public Transport. The average income tax rate is 98%. A powerhouse of a private sector is dominated by the Book Publishing industry.

Government officials frequently cut taxes as a distraction from antics with their secretaries, suburban families are finding themselves increasingly short on food as they waste precious water on their lawns, a survey of the nation’s rivers and children has shown that pesticide levels are at an all-time regional high, and college students make ends meet by selling their kidneys. Crime is totally unknown, thanks to the all-pervasive police force and progressive social policies in education and welfare. JRV's national animal is the JRV , which frolics freely in the nation's many lush forests, and its currency is the JRV Dollar.

Communist Atlantis:

"Freedom and equality for all"

UN Category: Left-Leaning College State
Civil Rights: Superb
Economy: Reasonable
Political Freedoms: Excellent

The United Socialist States of Communist atlantis is a huge, socially progressive nation, remarkable for its punitive income tax rates. Its compassionate, hard-working, intelligent population of 437 million enjoy extensive civil freedoms, particularly in social issues, while business tends to be more regulated.

It is difficult to tell where the omnipresent government stops and the rest of society begins, but it juggles the competing demands of the Environment, Social Welfare, and Education. The average income tax rate is 100%. The private sector is almost wholly made up of enterprising fourteen-year-old boys selling lemonade on the sidewalk, although the government is looking at stamping this out.

The people elect the Supreme Court justices directly, trespassers often find themselves impaled by crossbow bolts, all tariffs have been abolished, and parents are held criminally responsible for their children's crimes. Crime -- especially youth-related -- is moderate, and the police force struggles against a lack of funding and a high mortality rate. Communist atlantis's national animal is the beluga, which frolics freely in the nation's many lush forests, and its currency is the MLP credit.

Harlesburg:

"Vanquish the evil Stand by the brave Protect the weak!"

UN Category: Democratic Socialists
Civil Rights: Average
Economy: Frightening
Political Freedoms: Some

The Confederacy of Harlesburg is a massive, devout nation, renowned for its compulsory military service. Its compassionate population of 1.76 billion are fiercely patriotic and enjoy great social equality; they tend to view other, more capitalist countries as somewhat immoral and corrupt.

It is difficult to tell where the omnipresent government stops and the rest of society begins, but it juggles the competing demands of Education, Law & Order, and the Environment. The average income tax rate is 100%. The private sector is almost wholly made up of enterprising fourteen-year-old boys selling lemonade on the sidewalk, although the government is looking at stamping this out.

The police have reaffirmed their tough stance on drugs, gambling is outlawed, major cities shut down as their local sports team takes to the field every day, and retirement homes are often fitted with luxurious suites. Crime -- especially youth-related -- is totally unknown, thanks to the all-pervasive police force and progressive social policies in education and welfare. Harlesburg's national animal is the Eagle, which frolics freely in the nation's many lush forests, and its currency is the Dollar.

Lovely Boys:

"Not my problem"

UN Category: Democratic Socialists
Civil Rights: Excellent
Economy: Weak
Political Freedoms: Average

The Commonwealth of Lovely Boys is a very large, safe nation, renowned for its punitive income tax rates. Its compassionate population of 50 million are fiercely patriotic and enjoy great social equality; they tend to view other, more capitalist countries as somewhat immoral and corrupt.

It is difficult to tell where the omnipresent government stops and the rest of society begins, but it juggles the competing demands of Social Welfare, Education, and the Environment. The average income tax rate is 51%, and even higher for the wealthy. A small private sector is dominated by the Book Publishing industry.

Dog breeding has been banned in accordance with recent animal experimentation laws, scientists regularly clone human beings for research purposes, a niche industry catering to S&M enthusiasts has sprung up, and businessmen have been raging over recent 'gender equality' policies in the workplace. Crime is well under control. Lovely Boys's national animal is the sheep, which is also the nation's favorite main course, and its currency is the euro.

_Taiwan:

"To die for freedom is a beautiful thing"

UN Category: Corporate Police State
Civil Rights: Rare
Economy: Frightening
Political Freedoms: Rare

The Rogue Province of _Taiwan is a massive, devout nation, remarkable for its punitive income tax rates. Its hard-nosed, hard-working, cynical population of 4.149 billion are ruled with an iron fist by the corrupt, dictatorship government, which oppresses anyone who isn't on the board of a Fortune 500 company. Large corporations tend to be above the law, and use their financial clout to gain ever-increasing government benefits at the expense of the poor and unemployed.

It is difficult to tell where the omnipresent, corrupt, moralistic, pro-business government stops and the rest of society begins, but it juggles the competing demands of Defence, Law & Order, and Commerce. Citizens pay a flat income tax of 62%. A powerhouse of a private sector is led by the Uranium Mining industry, followed by Arms Manufacturing and Automobile Manufacturing.

The government is reigning in public spending, the country's famous rainforests are being bulldozed by the mining industry, corporations are either above the law or corrupting it, and the controversial show 'Who Wants to be an Immigrant?' has become wildly popular. Crime -- especially youth-related -- is totally unknown, thanks to the all-pervasive police force. _Taiwan's national animal is the rose, which teeters on the brink of extinction due to widespread deforestation, and its currency is the United China Dollar.

Interesting Slums:

"If You Cant Afford it, Steal It"

UN Category: Inoffensive Centrist Democracy
Civil Rights: Average
Economy: Strong
Political Freedoms: Average

The Free Intellectual Peoples of Interesting Slums is a massive, devout nation, renowned for its devotion to social welfare. Its compassionate population of 1.569 billion have some civil rights, but not too many, enjoy the freedom to spend their money however they like, to a point, and take part in free and open elections, although not too often.

It is difficult to tell where the omnipresent government stops and the rest of society begins, but it juggles the competing demands of Social Welfare, Education, and Healthcare. The average income tax rate is 100%. A healthy private sector is led by the Uranium Mining industry, followed by Pizza Delivery and Book Publishing.

Citizens are allowed to rise or fall based on their own merits, cars are banned from built-up areas, retirement homes are often fitted with luxurious suites, and graffiti artists spend lengthy periods of time in jail. Crime is totally unknown, thanks to the all-pervasive police force and progressive social policies in education and welfare. Interesting Slums's national animal is the hobo, which frolics freely in the nation's many lush forests, and its currency is the food stamp.

Sino:

(Mine isn't exactly suitable for this sort of thing as it's nothing more than Nazi China meets Uncle Sam. Sorry, kiddy nations!)

"My country, right or wrong."

UN Category: Iron Fist Consumerists
Civil Rights: Rare
Economy: Frightening
Political Freedoms: Rare

The Armed Republic of Sino is a massive, economically powerful nation, notable for its compulsory military service. Its hard-nosed, cynical population of 4.843 billion are kept under strict control by the oppressive government, which measures its success by the nation's GDP and refers to individual citizens as "human resources."

It is difficult to tell where the omnipresent, corrupt, moralistic government stops and the rest of society begins, but it juggles the competing demands of Defence, Law & Order, and Commerce. Citizens pay a flat income tax of 31%. A powerhouse of a private sector is led by the Uranium Mining industry, followed by Automobile Manufacturing and Information Technology.

Convicted felons are forced into slavery for their crimes, skateboarding is punishable by heavy fines, the latest Harry Potter book is a bestseller, and many parents are becoming frustrated with their children's choices in spouses. Crime -- especially youth-related -- is totally unknown, thanks to the all-pervasive police force and progressive social policies in education and welfare. Sino's national animal is the Chinese Dragon, which teeters on the brink of extinction due to widespread deforestation, and its currency is the United China Yuan.

Please explain this (Communist Atlantis' flag):

http://www.nationstates.net/images/flags/uploads/communist_atlantis.jpg

Did the Ivans invade us instead of Afghanistan and made us into commies?

I used to be a real hard arse but then i allowed this silly thing called Democracy im so ashamed....

I used to be a real hard arse but then i allowed this silly thing called Democracy im so ashamed....

Then have it my way- benevolent dictatorship. You get rallies like Nuremberg and a low level of complaints. LOL.

I'm not married, so I don't need to f*ck. Liberterianism promotes degeneracy and social corruption. I may not be White but I can see that Western culture is decaying with liberalism.
Retard, western culture IS Liberalism.

No, dickface! Western culture is being replaced by the pseudo-culture of the Liberals.

Culture is not something static that we can take a picture of in time. Culture evolves. It clearly wasnt the chinese that came and forced westerners to institute liberal reforms. It was us, we chose it for ourselves. If you dont like it, move to North Korea.

Culture is not something static that we can take a picture of in time. Culture evolves. It clearly wasnt the chinese that came and forced westerners to institute liberal reforms. It was us, we chose it for ourselves. If you dont like it, move to North Korea.

They have no culture under communism, so I would move to a place where it's nothing more than sunlit hell.

Western culture, traditional values and morals are constantly being destroyed by this liberal virus. Almost every girl in the street's a slut and there are few people left alive that haven't tried an illegal substance of some sort. Is this civilization?

If the traditionally conservative Asian countries mimic the increasing liberalism of the West. Don't blame me for keeping some canned goods and a firearm at the ready when anarchy from social collapse comes.

This generation has legalized buggery and weed's on the agenda. What's install for our grand kids? More drugs and murder legalized? We're slipping into chaos and anarchy. Fifty years ago, it was "My country, right or wrong", these days it's "F*ck me! I'm loose." When will people stand up for society again and say "NO!"?

Wow, surprising to see a thread on New Zealand politics, and even more surprising to see it's this large. Nice sight!

I'm from Wellington, New Zealand, and am eagerly awaiting the elections. Hopefully an election in which Labour loses. Unlikely, but here's hoping. *crosses fingers*

Sorry didn't read the whole thread, no time at the moment. From the first few posts I saw though I will say that Hubbard is a goof, though I'm glad Banks is gone. Prendergast IMO is just as bad. And while having a female prime minister may be seen as progressive, I would prefer it if she'd never won the '99 elections. Shipley would have been better, English even moreso. We'll see how Brash does; I'm thinking he will lose this year's election and probably will be ousted before 2008, so he may not get much chance.

I'll be voting for United Future. Represent my interests almost perfectly, and will hopefully join a governmental coalition again and have some input into legislation once more.

I think that our next government will be a National-NZ First coalition... again. Judging from the latest polls, I'd say there's a good chance. Hopefully it won't collapse like last time.

Yes, a thread on the internal politics of New Zealand. I don't know whether this is a waste of time or not, but any other Kiwis about these forums?

All you need to know is that Aragorn is King!
Man, you must be really getting tired of that. I've always wanted to go to New Zealand, it happens to be my fave country name!
I was supposed to go when I was younger, but Dad had an accident..can't actually remember what happened to him, and we never went :(

I think that our next government will be a National-NZ First coalition... again. Judging from the latest polls, I'd say there's a good chance. Hopefully it won't collapse like last time.

Did you see Brash on the news tonight with his new agriculture policy? I think they still need the farmers' support, so he's got to tread carefully. National-First coalition's in the air, but will Peters last longer than in the last of such coalition? I doubt that highly as he's non-compatible with any party and will simply get booted due to some disagreements with Brash. MMP is very unefficient for any government. Major parties have to work with fringe groups.

I hope next week they'll hassle the NZ Navy's visit to Russia on Facelift. I can't wait! Next stop's Shanghai. I bet it won't be a hole like Vladivostok.

All you need to know is that Aragorn is King!
Man, you must be really getting tired of that. I've always wanted to go to New Zealand, it happens to be my fave country name!
I was supposed to go when I was younger, but Dad had an accident..can't actually remember what happened to him, and we never went :(

Remember, kid. This is Australia's Canada. If you want a job, don't come here (a small population means that there are few opportunities). Although this is a good country to live in after retirement and we can guarantee that (if you just avoid those punks in the streets).

Wow, surprising to see a thread on New Zealand politics, and even more surprising to see it's this large. Nice sight!

G'day, mate! I'm a Yellow Kiwi from Auckland. I don't mind women in politics, but our current female politicians are fairly incompetent. Looks like the PC-ness have taken over practicality. I'm fairly conservative but National's the closest to representing my views (ya see, I'm a 'Chinazi'*). Anyway, feel free to enjoy discussing!





*Chinese man with an interest in WWII and the Nazis. Not that I'm anti-Semitic or anything. In fact, I'm also very pro-Israel.

Man, dont really like Dr Don and the nats, but anythings gotta b better than the Labour party. i mean if they tried making white or asian only seats the maori have been up in arms, even though without us they wouldnt even have a country. wheres the "equality" that LAbs are workin for. Don Brash was good in the early times, controversial and just a little racist.

I think that our next government will be a National-NZ First coalition... again. Judging from the latest polls, I'd say there's a good chance. Hopefully it won't collapse like last time.
That would be better than having Labour in power. NZ First is doing really well and I think Peters has great stances, especially on immigration. Certainly possible.

Did you see Brash on the news tonight with his new agriculture policy? I think they still need the farmers' support, so he's got to tread carefully. National-First coalition's in the air, but will Peters last longer than in the last of such coalition? I doubt that highly as he's non-compatible with any party and will simply get booted due to some disagreements with Brash. MMP is very unefficient for any government. Major parties have to work with fringe groups.Hehe yeah, another Labour screw-up IMO. We don't have a lot of farmers comparable to their importance in our economy, but still a pretty big group. Stupid law too.

I think Peters will do well. He's a lot more stable, and wise, than in '97 and '98.

G'day, mate! I'm a Yellow Kiwi from Auckland. I don't mind women in politics, but our current female politicians are fairly incompetent. Looks like the PC-ness have taken over practicality. I'm fairly conservative but National's the closest to representing my views (ya see, I'm a 'Chinazi'*). Anyway, feel free to enjoy discussing!
Hey man! :D

Yeah, I think they're incompetent also. A lot of the men are too, but relatively more women hehe. Or more media-visible women anyhow.

National represents my views on most things, but much of their party voted for the legalisation of prostitution, something I disagreed with. Since then, I've supported them in a lot of stances.

Man, dont really like Dr Don and the nats, but anythings gotta b better than the Labour party. i mean if they tried making white or asian only seats the maori have been up in arms, even though without us they wouldnt even have a country. wheres the "equality" that LAbs are workin for. Don Brash was good in the early times, controversial and just a little racist.Hehe, Labour wants equality over ability. Poo to them.

Then have it my way- benevolent dictatorship. You get rallies like Nuremberg and a low level of complaints. LOL.
Yep they were good days being a Psychotic Dictatorship!


Palenque IV
Unlike Sino im anti Israel because they like to steal our passports(Who dosent) Poison our Milk and David Swartz tries to blame Comrade Helen for Jewish sights getting tarnished/Vandalised sure shes a Fool but its not her fault these things happen.

Kyoto
Apparently now we wont get any money because the Yes men in LAbour overestimated our Forest reserves and now we cant sell Carbon Credits!

Though a clean green NZ is important The Credits was what really sold it.

if all goes well this election, the greens will gain majority. if all goes moderately, labour will win in a coalition with the greens.

unlike national, who wantsn to punish children for learning disabilities, take out loans, cut taxes, increase interest rates, and perpetuate the cycle where the opposition spends 3 years bitching before donig the same things.

what do you think would happen if i was to kill brash and anderton sholud the election fail? meh, as long as they die i will take whatever punishment they give me

If all goes well the greens will get blown up on rainbow Warrior II
We declare war on France beat them and take al their pacific possesions except the Nuked ones + Bordeux

http://www.progsoc.uts.edu.au/~whophd/fd/Best_adverty_ever.jpg

They have no culture under communism, so I would move to a place where it's nothing more than sunlit hell.

Western culture, traditional values and morals are constantly being destroyed by this liberal virus. Almost every girl in the street's a slut and there are few people left alive that haven't tried an illegal substance of some sort. Is this civilization?

If the traditionally conservative Asian countries mimic the increasing liberalism of the West. Don't blame me for keeping some canned goods and a firearm at the ready when anarchy from social collapse comes.

This generation has legalized buggery and weed's on the agenda. What's install for our grand kids? More drugs and murder legalized? We're slipping into chaos and anarchy. Fifty years ago, it was "My country, right or wrong", these days it's "F*ck me! I'm loose." When will people stand up for society again and say "NO!"?
So, don't pick up girls from the street.
Don't look at me, I'm on legal substances only.


Legalized buggery is just a pain in the ass. don't agree with the weed though, it is a sure recipe for brain tumors.

Hey, I'm an anarcho-capitalist. I don't believe in society. I want anarchy, I also want to be rich.

Think of all those Drunk Lions Girls roaming the streets right now
pwharrr.........

Think of all those Drunk Lions Girls roaming the streets right now
pwharrr.........

Umm, yeah. Great. I really don't want some drunk british chick.
Unless she's a Red head. There was a really sexy red head chick who I served at work today.

Wow, surprising to see a thread on New Zealand politics, and even more surprising to see it's this large. Nice sight!

I'm from Wellington, New Zealand, and am eagerly awaiting the elections. Hopefully an election in which Labour loses. Unlikely, but here's hoping. *crosses fingers*

Sorry didn't read the whole thread, no time at the moment. From the first few posts I saw though I will say that Hubbard is a goof, though I'm glad Banks is gone. Prendergast IMO is just as bad. And while having a female prime minister may be seen as progressive, I would prefer it if she'd never won the '99 elections. Shipley would have been better, English even moreso. We'll see how Brash does; I'm thinking he will lose this year's election and probably will be ousted before 2008, so he may not get much chance.

I'll be voting for United Future. Represent my interests almost perfectly, and will hopefully join a governmental coalition again and have some input into legislation once more.
If Labour loses, we all get tax cuts, less government and other good things.
Hopefully National will do a deal with ACT, I want the RMA gone by lunchtime.
I wouldn't mind United Future if it wasn't for the fact they are too silly about moral issues. I'm old enough to look after myself, I don't want some moral guardian interferring with my life.

Umm, yeah. Great. I really don't want some drunk british chick.
Unless she's a Red head. There was a really sexy red head chick who I served at work today.
Served????
I thought you worked with animals. :confused:

I'm not married, so I don't need to f*ck. Liberterianism promotes degeneracy and social corruption. I may not be White but I can see that Western culture is decaying with liberalism.

I wasn't married when I was 8, I still am not married 20 years later. You don't have to be married to have sex. It's probably a better idea to know what to do with your wedding tackle than to not have a clue on your honeymoon.

Served????
I thought you worked with animals. :confused:

Dude, I work at SubWay. We have toy animals for kids.
Anyway, at least I know this chick's last name and initials. Gotta love eftpos.

Dude, I work at SubWay. We have toy animals for kids.
Anyway, at least I know this chick's last name and initials. Gotta love eftpos.
Sorry im thinking of Kiwicrog!

Shoots himself
.............. .. . .
Sorry
theirs just way too many of us on here. :mp5:

Then don't bloody vote.


"It is enough that the people know there was an election. The people who cast the votes decide nothing. The people who count the votes decide everything.”

- J. V. Stalin

I saw pamphlets for signing up to count votes on election day. It seems tempting. LOL!

On another note, I feel like talking in Don Brash's voice for the rest of the week!

I actually counted votes in the 96 election. they use two counters to double check for fraud.

That's a vote for anarchy and debauchery. We need a bigger police force to tackle the drugs problem and more forest rangers to clear out that weed infestation.

Spoiling your vote is a vote for anarchy. Debauchery is optional.
I say legalize it and make money like Holland.

BTW, I claim post #666 as being an excellent number.

Think of all those Drunk Lions Girls roaming the streets right now
pwharrr.........

There's a big billboard in Auckland City saying:

"Here kittty, kitty...!"

"You're just a big bunch of pussies."

Man, dont really like Dr Don and the nats, but anythings gotta b better than the Labour party. i mean if they tried making white or asian only seats the maori have been up in arms, even though without us they wouldnt even have a country. wheres the "equality" that LAbs are workin for. Don Brash was good in the early times, controversial and just a little racist.

Ya callin' Donny a racist? The whole race-based policies are outdated and unnecessary. If you're going to have specific Maori seats, then why ot bring in Asian and Pacific Islands seats? One law for all!

I think Peters will do well. He's a lot more stable, and wise, than in '97 and '98.

His flying squads won't be considered under any government. Besides, would National sacrfice ethnic votes?

Hehe, Labour wants equality over ability. Poo to them.

The pursuit of equality is the destruction of excellence!

Dude, I work at SubWay. We have toy animals for kids.
Anyway, at least I know this chick's last name and initials. Gotta love eftpos.

What's next? Stalk her and pull off another Iraena Asher because our 111 system's too crap?

I love NZ. Been there twice. Got around to most of the North Island,and went around Christchurch and the fijords in the south island.Here in America, we hear nothing about NZ politics-much less the country itself. Ask 99 of a hundred people here- none will have any idea what NZ is.

Palenque IV
Unlike Sino im anti Israel because they like to steal our passports(Who dosent) Poison our Milk and David Swartz tries to blame Comrade Helen for Jewish sights getting tarnished/Vandalised sure shes a Fool but its not her fault these things happen.

It's our fault that we've managed allow such exploitation. You think the Israelis are the only ones doing that? Don't forget the Kadyrov case in 1990. Every spy wants an NZ passport so it's easier and less suspicious. Those men were the tip of the iceberg.

As for the vandalism of Jewish graves in this country, I truly feel angry for the Jews. Since when did good ol' NZ get a dose of Nazi infestation?

if all goes well this election, the greens will gain majority. if all goes moderately, labour will win in a coalition with the greens.

unlike national, who wantsn to punish children for learning disabilities, take out loans, cut taxes, increase interest rates, and perpetuate the cycle where the opposition spends 3 years bitching before donig the same things.

what do you think would happen if i was to kill brash and anderton sholud the election fail? meh, as long as they die i will take whatever punishment they give me

It won't be a punishment for you sodomite commies since 20 years with a dick up your arse daily is paradise. If something like that happens, I'd be honored to be on the firing squad farewelling you to hell.

You've lived in a democracy longer than me and you still don't understand the rules of engagement? Assassinating any candidate is not democratic behaviour. Seeing that you're from the left, you should know that fairly well. Or are the communist scum so violent and politically dirty where Uncle Helen's vote-buying from beneficiaries, gays and Maoris is still not enough?

Greens are the new color of communism in the 21st Century. The Cold War may be over, but we need to reinstate anti-communist laws to keep the subhumans at bay! What the f*ck's wrong with c*nts like you? Look at Russia and China, communism's a failed system. Marx and Lenin have died long before you're born. Stop trying CPR to revive their anti-human ideology. In fact, why don't you go to Ivanland and hump Lenin's preserve corpse, ya communist maggot? Not everyone here wants to share their wives like you.

Hey, I'm an anarcho-capitalist. I don't believe in society. I want anarchy, I also want to be rich.

Do you prefer to live by the rules of society or the laws of the gun? Under anarchy, a living hell breaks through. Goddamn anarchist! Why don't ya take a look at the warlordism and cannibalist warfare in the DRC (Democratic Republic of Congo)? You think anarchy will work. Not even your basic training (if you have any) will last you a week. Humans are fundamentally evil, order is the good stopgap.

If all goes well the greens will get blown up on rainbow Warrior II
We declare war on France beat them and take al their pacific possesions except the Nuked ones + Bordeux

http://www.progsoc.uts.edu.au/~whophd/fd/Best_adverty_ever.jpg

France will kick our arse if they want to. Just how old are you? Stop your childish fantasies!

And please, don't f*ckin' post such objectionable images! I'm on a goddamn public computer. That image's dirty connotations are offensive.

Spoiling your vote is a vote for anarchy. Debauchery is optional.
I say legalize it and make money like Holland.

BTW, I claim post #666 as being an excellent number.

Not everything is money. Ever heard of business ethics? If I have no business ethics, I'd probably work as a merc or an assassin. Legalize it? And turn our kids into nothing but stoners? You've got to be out off your mind. You want to make money, how about legalize child prostitution too?

666? If you're an anarchist, would you still believe in the Bible? I am not exactly sure what that number means since I'm not Christian, but I know what you demonic anarchists are thinking.

At times like these, there's nothing more than ridiculing the left. I'm attired in black today, in fact, even suit trousers and shiny leather shoes. Where's my red armband with the black 'hooked cross'? LOL. (I'm such a Nazi wannabe when I hassle the liberals.)

Remember this!

http://0cents.com/Merchant2/graphics/00000001/Mousepad_Liberalism_A_Mental_Disorder.jpg

In politics, only the Right is right.

My boyfriend is a Kiwi, but I don't think he likes these forums :D


And, isn't the OP from like.....last year?

My boyfriend is a Kiwi, but I don't think he likes these forums :D


And, isn't the OP from like.....last year?

Which country is he living in? What OP?

Wow! Did you see that? Pakistani President Gen. Pervez Musharraf's in the country. That man's a benevolent dictator and a strong leader. His leadership's the sort I admire. Goddamn human rights activists just have to try and ruin the occassion, shame!

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/index.cfm?ObjectID=10331173

Wow! Did you see that? Pakistani President Gen. Pervez Musharraf's in the country. That man's a benevolent dictator and a strong leader. His leadership's the sort I admire. Goddamn human rights activists just have to try and ruin the occassion, shame!

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/index.cfm?ObjectID=10331173

Well, the funny part is, he has a better humans rights record than say Saudi Arabia or Egypt. As much as some people hate him, what is the alternative? an ultra conservative clerical regime running Pakistan, thats what.

So if it weren't Pervez they'er complaining it, it would be a cleric who presided over some beheadings, stonings and floggings.

He's in the same league as Colonel Rambuka of Fiji, having been there when he was in charge, it was business as usual. No crack downs, political prisons or repressieve regime.

Palenque IV
Unlike Sino im anti Israel because they like to steal our passports(Who dosent) Poison our Milk and David Swartz tries to blame Comrade Helen for Jewish sights getting tarnished/Vandalised sure shes a Fool but its not her fault these things happen.
I was annoyed by that also, but I also know that spies exist in most nations. What was worse, however, was Helen Clark's idiotic reaction to it and her attitude to their apology.

It seemed to be a reminder, albeit a small one, of why we need better laws concerning passports. I remember several years back many NZ-copied passports were found in Thailand I think, south-east Asia at any rate. Same thing.


I wouldn't mind United Future if it wasn't for the fact they are too silly about moral issues. I'm old enough to look after myself, I don't want some moral guardian interferring with my life.Heh, that's why I like 'em. Moral issues at the moment are the most important issue for me.

The pursuit of equality is the destruction of excellence!
Yep. Stupid socialists. Destroys any incentive to work and hence an economically viable society. :)

Wow! Did you see that? Pakistani President Gen. Pervez Musharraf's in the country. That man's a benevolent dictator and a strong leader. His leadership's the sort I admire. Goddamn human rights activists just have to try and ruin the occassion, shame!

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/index.cfm?ObjectID=10331173
yeah i hadnt even heard until yesterday why didnt Rob Donaldson have a bitch about him?

I admire this Guy hes a Gentleman but im sure he can crackdown on dissadents if need be.

France will kick our arse if they want to. Just how old are you? Stop your childish fantasies!

And please, don't f*ckin' post such objectionable images! I'm on a goddamn public computer. That image's dirty connotations are offensive.
Er ill apologise for the pic* but not for my beliefs in the patheticness of France.

No Doubt we are useless but if we got our shit together we could take them.

*I posted it here as storage until i could send it to where it needed to go.
Which would have to be the trash your right it is crude.

Do you prefer to live by the rules of society or the laws of the gun? Under anarchy, a living hell breaks through. Goddamn anarchist! Why don't ya take a look at the warlordism and cannibalist warfare in the DRC (Democratic Republic of Congo)? You think anarchy will work. Not even your basic training (if you have any) will last you a week. Humans are fundamentally evil, order is the good stopgap.

That's anarcho-socialism. I don't believe in mainstream anarchism. I would rather have companies running new zealand than government.
There is nothing wrong with being evil. There is nothing wrong with being an anarchist. I have been an anarchist for 21 years, since I read 1984.
There are good companies, there are bad companies and there are no good governments.

And you obviously haven't heard that Anarchy is Order.

Not everything is money. Ever heard of business ethics? If I have no business ethics, I'd probably work as a merc or an assassin. Legalize it? And turn our kids into nothing but stoners? You've got to be out off your mind. You want to make money, how about legalize child prostitution too?

It's a free country, you're free to get out of your tree. My business ethics are pretty much all in my favor, then for my customers.

666? If you're an anarchist, would you still believe in the Bible? I am not exactly sure what that number means since I'm not Christian, but I know what you demonic anarchists are thinking.

I don't beleive in the christian bible. I believe in something else, but I accept christian morals. The bible is full of the evils of government.

What's next? Stalk her and pull off another Iraena Asher because our 111 system's too crap?

No, next thing is ask her next time I see her if she would like to go to a movie or for a coffee or something.
She gave me the sweetest smile, I think I would like to know her better.

Greens are the new color of communism in the 21st Century. The Cold War may be over, but we need to reinstate anti-communist laws to keep the subhumans at bay! What the f*ck's wrong with c*nts like you? Look at Russia and China, communism's a failed system. Marx and Lenin have died long before you're born. Stop trying CPR to revive their anti-human ideology. In fact, why don't you go to Ivanland and hump Lenin's preserve corpse, ya communist maggot? Not everyone here wants to share their wives like you.

I used to be a green, but I couldn't stand their socialist economics.
Fact is, sharing wives sounds fun but feels dirty. when the doctor tells you your knob is going to fall off, it's just not worth it.

Greens are the new color of communism in the 21st Century. The Cold War may be over, but we need to reinstate anti-communist laws to keep the subhumans at bay! What the f*ck's wrong with c*nts like you? Look at Russia and China, communism's a failed system. Marx and Lenin have died long before you're born. Stop trying CPR to revive their anti-human ideology. In fact, why don't you go to Ivanland and hump Lenin's preserve corpse, ya communist maggot? Not everyone here wants to share their wives like you.
And why don't you go off to hump Ayn Rand's leg bone, you silly wee man? How is supporting Labour communist? Labour is about as centrist as you can get, if you paid any attention to their economic policies.

I used to be a green, but I couldn't stand their socialist economics.
I'm the same as you. I thought the Greens would be in fighting for things like Public transport, cycle lanes, better preservation of Native forest etc etc, and then they have to go all loopy and start yelling for all sorts of dumb things that aren't remotely 'green'.

Well, the funny part is, he has a better humans rights record than say Saudi Arabia or Egypt. As much as some people hate him, what is the alternative? an ultra conservative clerical regime running Pakistan, thats what.

So if it weren't Pervez they'er complaining it, it would be a cleric who presided over some beheadings, stonings and floggings.

He's in the same league as Colonel Rambuka of Fiji, having been there when he was in charge, it was business as usual. No crack downs, political prisons or repressieve regime.

At least Musharraf's loved by his people, since he promises to resolve issues with India, fight terror (there's also clashes amongst the Shi'ites and Suunies in that country too), crackdown on the corruption left over by the democratic p*ssies before him. He also makes reforms against evil traditions like honor killings and gang rapes. Those changes won't occur overnight because of various customs, but at least he's addressing the issue.

If a dictator is a good dictator then why should they call for his removal?

"Democracy is the worst form of government."

- Winston Churchill

It seemed to be a reminder, albeit a small one, of why we need better laws concerning passports. I remember several years back many NZ-copied passports were found in Thailand I think, south-east Asia at any rate. Same thing.

Yeah, same sh*t different arsehole. Whenever there's items of values or power, such as money or passports, there'll always be the bastards who produce false copies. It's as simple as that. What the authorities have to do is stay one step ahead of these thieves and imposters.

Heh, that's why I like 'em. Moral issues at the moment are the most important issue for me.

Yep. Stupid socialists. Destroys any incentive to work and hence an economically viable society. :)

I may not be religious, but I strongly agree that Western society is collapsing along with its morals. Don't get me wrong on this one, United Future's leadership doesn't have a very good grasp of Asian politics.

And why don't you go off to hump Ayn Rand's leg bone, you silly wee man? How is supporting Labour communist? Labour is about as centrist as you can get, if you paid any attention to their economic policies.

I wasn't blaming him for supporting Labour, I was denouncing his terroristic fantasies. Remember, this is a democracy, we can't afford the lip service of fair elections when he's the one who's calling for an assassination of a major candidate. If we're to live in a democracy, then let's act democratically. Being a second world nation, our democracy should be above the lip service that some third world countries portray.

Communist Atlantis here is a daydreamer. I'd be surprised that if he lived under Mao or Stalin and managed to survive all the purges. LOL

I'm the same as you. I thought the Greens would be in fighting for things like Public transport, cycle lanes, better preservation of Native forest etc etc, and then they have to go all loopy and start yelling for all sorts of dumb things that aren't remotely 'green'.

Greens in this country can be summed up as drug-pushing, anti-capitalist, eco-terrorist maniacs.

yeah i hadnt even heard until yesterday why didnt Rob Donaldson have a bitch about him?

I admire this Guy hes a Gentleman but im sure he can crackdown on dissadents if need be.

Gen. Musharraf was a gentleman, nonetheless. That's just my opinion after watching his interview with Mark Sainsbury. He's got this air that former U.S. president Clinton possessed.

Oh and about the Greens, if those c*nts are in power, they'll support Tibetan terrorism, since that bastard Rod Donald have been bitching recently about the free trade agreement. Some idiots never have the survival instincts to compromise. Even Venezuela's hardcore commie president Chavez, managed to be one of the first to recognize the Chinese market economy.

Look at the goodness of MMP, we have idiots who aren't good enough to be politicians and they can still get in.

Er ill apologise for the pic* but not for my beliefs in the patheticness of France.

No Doubt we are useless but if we got our shit together we could take them.

*I posted it here as storage until i could send it to where it needed to go.
Which would have to be the trash your right it is crude.

France ain't pathetic. How many nukes have we got? How many men have we got? What sort of fighters do we fly? France is a world power, we're a corner of the Pacific. Get our sh*t together? What sh*t?

Gen. Musharraf is probably a better leader than Helen ;)

... and the French could kick us to kingdom come.

In other news: http://www.nzherald.co.nz/index.cfm?c_id=1&ObjectID=10331393

that guy is a fruit cake.

Gen. Musharraf is probably a better leader than Helen ;)

... and the French could kick us to kingdom come.

Musharraf is an example of a man of action. I don't know how Harlesburg conducts his thinking. Maybe he wants to cry to Mother Britain since she's got an armed force the size of present day French and German ones combined. Hey! We sure don't want the ABs to lose to the Lions over some incorrectly perceived 'threat'.

That's anarcho-socialism. I don't believe in mainstream anarchism. I would rather have companies running new zealand than government.
There is nothing wrong with being evil. There is nothing wrong with being an anarchist. I have been an anarchist for 21 years, since I read 1984.
There are good companies, there are bad companies and there are no good governments.

And you obviously haven't heard that Anarchy is Order.

Then wouldn't the companies be taking over and presiding as government? Anarchism is anti-human. Humans need leadership and authority. Society doesn't have to be a macrocosm of the military, but there are subordinates and superiors. Anarchy is not order; those words are opposites. Ten men cleverly led, can defeated a hundred men without a head.

1984's the most B.S. book I've read. If that's communism they're talking then why are the proles being free as animals. Everything revolves around the Party but that's 10% of the population, they need the proles for the armed forces and the factories but since they're not politicize, are they somehow allowed to escape the mind control of the Party and their telescreens? It makes no bloody sense how they only monitor the Party members.

Speaking of books, I've always wanted to read Hitler's Mein Kampf. Has anyone here read that? I heard that it's full of sh*t like anything by Marx, but I'm so fascinated by the man.

In other news: http://www.nzherald.co.nz/index.cfm?c_id=1&ObjectID=10331393

that guy is a fruit cake.

We ain't stopping him.

Then wouldn't the companies be taking over and presiding as government? Anarchism is anti-human. Humans need leadership and authority. Society doesn't have to be a macrocosm of the military, but there are subordinates and superiors. Anarchy is not order; those words are opposites. Ten men cleverly led, can defeated a hundred men without a head.

1984's the most B.S. book I've read. If that's communism they're talking then why are the proles being free as animals. Everything revolves around the Party but that's 10% of the population, they need the proles for the armed forces and the factories but since they're not politicize, are they somehow allowed to escape the mind control of the Party and their telescreens? It makes no bloody sense how they only monitor the Party members.

Speaking of books, I've always wanted to read Hitler's Mein Kampf. Has anyone here read that? I heard that it's full of sh*t like anything by Marx, but I'm so fascinated by the man.

Its bullshit; its Hitler and whining an whining over again looking for someone to blame to explain why he is such a pathetic loser. The communist manefesto is just an example of one mans idea completely devoid of human nature.

Humans are selfish, self centred, 'survival of the fittest' creatures; no matter how much religion would like to bullshit, we're just a slightly refine animal - in the end, we do what we do to survive; cheat, lie, work, trade, bargin, barter etc.

As for Tamaki, its a democracy, let him put as many candidates as he wants, and let him be laughed off the political stage just like the McKiddy Cuddy Serious Party and the Monster Raving Loony Party.

Humans are selfish, self centred, 'survival of the fittest' creatures; no matter how much religion would like to bullshit, we're just a slightly refine animal - in the end, we do what we do to survive; cheat, lie, work, trade, bargin, barter etc.
You obviously live in a hell of a place then. Every day I see altruism and kindness, largely from members of my church but also from without. And no religion doesn't do what you said it does. I am religious, and speaking as one against you who is obviously not, I think I can say I know better than you do. I live it; yours is an opinion based on crap-all.[/QUOTE]

You obviously live in a hell of a place then. Every day I see altruism and kindness, largely from members of my church but also from without. And no religion doesn't do what you said it does. I am religious, and speaking as one against you who is obviously not, I think I can say I know better than you do. I live it; yours is an opinion based on crap-all.

Just look around you. The vast majority couldn't give a shit about anyone else. If they did care, you wouldn't have half the problems in society. You wouldn't have parents sending their gay children off to 'straight camps', you wouldn't have little old ladies getting beaten up on homes etc. etc.

I am religious, I believe that there is a higher being, a 'creator' if you will, but I have a pretty low regard for humans, and the pathetic bunch that we are.

France ain't pathetic. How many nukes have we got? How many men have we got? What sort of fighters do we fly? France is a world power, we're a corner of the Pacific. Get our sh*t together? What sh*t?
First of all a nation that uses Nukes is Pathetic
It dosent make you the man it makes you a girl.
France didnt kick our arse over Rainbow Warrior no they threatened an Embargo excluding trade with Europe.
The fighting qualities of the New Zealand Soldier,Airman and Sailor exceed Frances if we had the gear we could take them remember they would have to get down here to prove their point giving us a Tactical and possibly Strategical control of the situation.

Fact British capabilities in Falklands were severly restricted by the sinking of their Helicopter Transport ship localised handicapping of their Logistics would screw them.

Now on to the question of Shit.

By 'Shit' of course when we have our 'shit' then wed be able to use our 'shit' but of course we dont have any 'shit' so when we get 'shit' we will be able to use our 'shit'

Which makes my point against us getting our shit together

and if your going to try and argue about something can you at least find something we disagree about? ;)

Musharraf is an example of a man of action. I don't know how Harlesburg conducts his thinking. Maybe he wants to cry to Mother Britain since she's got an armed force the size of present day French and German ones combined. Hey! We sure don't want the ABs to lose to the Lions over some incorrectly perceived 'threat'.
Are you dyslexic?
I dont know why your trying to bag me over Musharraf i said i like him if i agree with you and you dont like it that's to bad i wont argue with you over that though youd probably enjoy it.

How did you get some whacked out impression that i dislike Musharraf cracking down on dissidents is good!

Are you dyslexic?
I dont know why your trying to bag me over Musharraf i said i like him if i agree with you and you dont like it that's to bad i wont argue with you over that though youd probably enjoy it.

How did you get some whacked out impression that i dislike Musharraf cracking down on dissidents is good!

Sorry about the ambiguities, I was bagging you for the calls over invading France. That would require more than a miracle for us to pull off.

As for Tamaki, its a democracy, let him put as many candidates as he wants, and let him be laughed off the political stage just like the McKiddy Cuddy Serious Party and the Monster Raving Loony Party.

Yes, 'tis the beauty of democracy where lunatics never get a chance (with the exception being Adolf Hitler, but that's because of the political circumstances and economic suffering).

I also believe that humans are fundamentally evil.

First of all a nation that uses Nukes is Pathetic
It dosent make you the man it makes you a girl.
France didnt kick our arse over Rainbow Warrior no they threatened an Embargo excluding trade with Europe.
The fighting qualities of the New Zealand Soldier,Airman and Sailor exceed Frances if we had the gear we could take them remember they would have to get down here to prove their point giving us a Tactical and possibly Strategical control of the situation.


France by conventional means is not far behind Britain or Germany, and that would be decades ahead of us. I'm not sure where does the spirit of the NZ fighting man come into this, but in the face of overwhelming numbers and superior technology, how's his fist going to work? If you're talking about guerilla warfare, that's a whole 'nother ball game but would we have the motivation and capability to conduct that?

First of all, nukes are primarily deterrents against large scale direct conflict. It's also a demonstration of a nation's technological might. The first five nations that manage to have nukes now dominate the UN Security Council. In terms of pursuing peace and threatening war, nukes make the country more of a man. Non-nuclear countries are pathetic schoolgirls by comparison.

If you're so against the nuke, then I suggest you take the mentality to the grave that if it wasn't for America's A-boms on the Japs, you'd be a sushi maker today! (I just had to take one that from a 'Nam vet's mouth two Anzac Days ago.)

http://www.globalsecurity.org/wmd/world/china/images/df-3ssm.jpg

France by conventional means is not far behind Britain or Germany, and that would be decades ahead of us. I'm not sure where does the spirit of the NZ fighting man come into this, but in the face of overwhelming numbers and superior technology, how's his fist going to work? If you're talking about guerilla warfare, that's a whole 'nother ball game but would we have the motivation and capability to conduct that?
I said qualities not spirit however thats being pedantic.

On the Brits vs France thread its claimed france has a bigger military but smaller Navy.

The point of that is not to say we would have Britains help.

If we got Localised Control of the situation then we could control it.
We obviously would need our equipment including some more portable SAM units i heard we had 5.

I said qualities not spirit however thats being pedantic.

On the Brits vs France thread its claimed france has a bigger military but smaller Navy.

The point of that is not to say we would have Britains help.

If we got Localised Control of the situation then we could control it.
We obviously would need our equipment including some more portable SAM units i heard we had 5.

The only radars we have are mostly civilian ones. You'd expect us to know that the a French airstrike is coming? The French military has been largely land-based since the start. Britain is still the prime naval nation in the world (America may have the largest navy, but Britain has better technology and experience).

I can't wait for tonight's episode of Facelift! I hope they make fun of either the RNZN visit to Russia, Gen. Musharraf's visit here, or both!

I can't wait for tonight's episode of Facelift! I hope they make fun of either the RNZN visit to Russia, Gen. Musharraf's visit here, or both!

Yeah that programme is great. I think it's the last one tonight though. They said something about it being 'the best of Facelift'. :(

Yeah that programme is great. I think it's the last one tonight though. They said something about it being 'the best of Facelift'. :(

Well if that's the case then that's just f*ckin' sad! C'mon, this is election year, can't they keep the series running just a tad longer, or maybe have an elections special? I'd love it if they hassle Gen. Musharraf's visit.

Well if that's the case then that's just f*ckin' sad! C'mon, this is election year, can't they keep the series running just a tad longer, or maybe have an elections special? I'd love it if they hassle Gen. Musharraf's visit.
Thats exactly why they wont keep it longer the Government is lie that.
*Shifty eyes*

You're right, it is a round up of this season's best acts. Well that's just too bad. I hope they show that one with Steven Ching in it, it was a pretty good way to hassle Asian stereotypes.

Yes, 'tis the beauty of democracy where lunatics never get a chance (with the exception being Adolf Hitler, but that's because of the political circumstances and economic suffering).

I also believe that humans are fundamentally evil.

Well, technically speaking, one party thought he could be controlled, then coupled with the "reds under the bed" and the fire at the reichstag, he was able to use the events of the time to his own advantage. I'm not saying what he did was good or bad, just a fine example of political manuvering that occurs even to this day; scare the crap out of the politician, paint the opposition or alternative as the root of all evil, and voila, instant power - works everytime.

As for humans being fundamentally evil - they're not; humans simply look after number one - themselves, everyone else is secondary priority. When it boils down to it, people will worry about law and order, education, taxation and jobs.

Morality and ethics and nothing more than bullshit and motivation tools to get the religious nutty fringe to vote for them.

What people want is more money in the pocket, better education for their kids, and criminals to be brutually punished; deliver that, and you'll get voted in each time.

Then wouldn't the companies be taking over and presiding as government? Anarchism is anti-human. Humans need leadership and authority. Society doesn't have to be a macrocosm of the military, but there are subordinates and superiors. Anarchy is not order; those words are opposites. Ten men cleverly led, can defeat a hundred men without a head.

No, The companies can do whatever we want them to. I don't need leadership or authority, never have, never will.
Anarchy is Order. A well known and respected russian anarchist said that. He was a brilliant scientist too.
Your ten men would still be taking orders by the time my band of anarchists had killed them.

1984's the most B.S. book I've read. If that's communism they're talking then why are the proles being free as animals. Everything revolves around the Party but that's 10% of the population, they need the proles for the armed forces and the factories but since they're not politicize, are they somehow allowed to escape the mind control of the Party and their telescreens? It makes no bloody sense how they only monitor the Party members.

Only intellectuals care about politics, the rest just struggle to survive. Only those who have power are worth monitoring for ideological purity. That is the premise of communism.

Speaking of books, I've always wanted to read Hitler's Mein Kampf. Has anyone here read that? I heard that it's full of sh*t like anything by Marx, but I'm so fascinated by the man.
My german isn't that good, but it's just a load of crap about ethnic minorities being the problem with society. Maybe you should try to avoid that idea being thought about you?
Why don't you go to a university library? (read it there and don't check it out unless you want to be on a sis special interests watchlist)

Sino,

how is it wrong to protect my people from the evils of a farudulent election.

after all the bitching in the 50s about communist subversion benig a threat, and denying that maybe it was better, thats why people were willing to rebel. now you are trying to say that it is perfectly legitiamate for national to do it now using their capitalst subversive techniques.

the more you repel socialism the more inevitable it is. if you really like capitilism you will vote for greens. eventually, under a nationalist government, the workers will grow tired fo their oppression. we will take back the money that is rightfully ours.

-SNIP-
My german isn't that good, but it's just a load of crap about ethnic minorities being the problem with society. Maybe you should try to avoid that idea being thought about you?
Why don't you go to a university library? (read it there and don't check it out unless you want to be on a sis special interests watchlist)
See thats problem with todays society you read a piece of Classic Literature like My Struggle and you get put on a list with all the pinkos and Commies.

I enrolled on the electoral roll today - I think I might vote Destiny if Labour continues harping on about "hate speech".

Your ten men would still be taking orders by the time my band of anarchists had killed them.

A lack of organization leads to every combat failure. Organization and order is of great importance to any military.

My german isn't that good, but it's just a load of crap about ethnic minorities being the problem with society. Maybe you should try to avoid that idea being thought about you?
Why don't you go to a university library? (read it there and don't check it out unless you want to be on a sis special interests watchlist)

I'm not a Nazi (although I admire the image), I'm still very drawn to that book, despite the whole world telling me that it's crap. What special watchlist? The SIS couldn't even tell if Ahmed Zaoui had any links with bin Laden!

Sino,

how is it wrong to protect my people from the evils of a farudulent election.

after all the bitching in the 50s about communist subversion benig a threat, and denying that maybe it was better, thats why people were willing to rebel. now you are trying to say that it is perfectly legitiamate for national to do it now using their capitalst subversive techniques.

the more you repel socialism the more inevitable it is. if you really like capitilism you will vote for greens. eventually, under a nationalist government, the workers will grow tired fo their oppression. we will take back the money that is rightfully ours.

Fraudulent elections? Let's count Uncle Helen's vote-buying. Your people? Are communists people? Equality doesn't exist. If that is to happen, then you might as well have every man walk around in the raw with their penises trimmed to a standard length. To achieve the sort of Marxist utopia, communism is nothing more than unabated kleptocracy.

Communist propaganda claims that there is great oppressions and sufferring, they magnify on existing problems then sensationalize it to disenfranchise a nation before taking it over and the real oppression sets in. Have you ever lived in a communist country? The real subversion is conducted by the communists and terrorists.

If communism is truly our savior why is not your arse that's saved?

I enrolled on the electoral roll today - I think I might vote Destiny if Labour continues harping on about "hate speech".

Hey, I didn't know you're a Kiwi! Whereabouts are you? Can't believe that someone I RP with on AMW also turns out to be from here.

Free speech, hate speech, f*ck all speech! Bring on censorship and only productive things will be said. Under the hate speech laws, idiots like Commie Atlantis gets away scotch free while I won't be able to read Mein Kampf.

See thats problem with todays society you read a piece of Classic Literature like My Struggle and you get put on a list with all the pinkos and Commies.

I think there are more than just pinkos and commies on that list, don't forget terrorist suspects and actual fascist. I don't know if violent racists like the National Front will be monitored by the authorities.

As for humans being fundamentally evil - they're not; humans simply look after number one - themselves, everyone else is secondary priority. When it boils down to it, people will worry about law and order, education, taxation and jobs.

Morality and ethics and nothing more than bullshit and motivation tools to get the religious nutty fringe to vote for them.

What people want is more money in the pocket, better education for their kids, and criminals to be brutually punished; deliver that, and you'll get voted in each time.

Without morality and social order, the true face of humanity is unmasked. Look at the anarchy in the Democratic Republic of Congo. Cannibalism, brutal warcrimes, warlordism, mutilations, decapitations, gang rapes are all too often daily occurrences due to sweet f*ck all government and order. All these brutalities occur under the fundamental human struggle to be better than anyone else (through means of foul and unleashing desires of inflicting cruelties normally dormant under a system of order). Humans are fundamentally evil.

Goodness can only appear when there is order and punishment for such crimes. Religion and the rules of society generally teaches the citizens of society to be good, that's just there to mask their true colors.

Just look around you. The vast majority couldn't give a shit about anyone else. If they did care, you wouldn't have half the problems in society. You wouldn't have parents sending their gay children off to 'straight camps', you wouldn't have little old ladies getting beaten up on homes etc. etc.

Straight camps? Why not? That'll improve our national image. Best to appoint me as a guard or officer there. I wish to work in the crematorium, I mean corrections facility!

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/9/92/Himmler_visits_Dachau_1936.jpg

(Damn! I still can't get over that BBC documentary on TV One late on Saturday nights about Auschwitz: http://www.bbc.co.uk/history/war/genocide/index.shtml )

A lack of organization leads to every combat failure. Organization and order is of great importance to any military.

Pure crap. You are merely engaging in ideology.

I'm not a Nazi (although I admire the image), I'm still very drawn to that book, despite the whole world telling me that it's crap. What special watchlist? The SIS couldn't even tell if Ahmed Zaoui had any links with bin Laden!
Ahmed Zaoui has no links with Osama Bin Laden. How can an elected islamic MP from Algeria be related to a Saudi Terrorist?
You are just an idiot if you think there is a link.

Without morality and social order, the true face of humanity is unmasked. Look at the anarchy in the Democratic Republic of Congo. Cannibalism, brutal warcrimes, warlordism, mutilations, decapitations, gang rapes are all too often daily occurrences due to sweet f*ck all government and order. All these brutalities occur under the fundamental human struggle to be better than anyone else (through means of foul and unleashing desires of inflicting cruelties normally dormant under a system of order). Humans are fundamentally evil.

Why yes, just look at the good work china does with it's morality and social order. I'm sure you'd rather go back there to live than live in a western state which doesn't care about morality and social order.

Goodness can only appear when there is order and punishment for such crimes. Religion and the rules of society generally teaches the citizens of society to be good, that's just there to mask their true colors.
Crap, crap and more crap.
Religion teaches you that it's alright to take slaves from other nations, rape your wife if she doesn't want to have sex, to even kill people for wearing cloths made of 2 (or more) fabrics and so forth.

Crap, crap and more crap.
Religion teaches you that it's alright to take slaves from other nations, rape your wife if she doesn't want to have sex, to even kill people for wearing cloths made of 2 (or more) fabrics and so forth.

So having sex with your wife when she isn't in the mood is now called rape? Are you a feminist by any chance?

So having sex with your wife when she isn't in the mood is now called rape? Are you a feminist by any chance?
I'm not a feminist, but I'm so good a lover, none of the girls I've dated seriously wasn't in the mood.

Why yes, just look at the good work china does with it's morality and social order. I'm sure you'd rather go back there to live than live in a western state which doesn't care about morality and social order.

That nation is overpopulated and the government has never been more corrupt. Over here, there's a different form of corruption that takes hold of morality and social values. The furthering of this corruption shall be the downfall of Western (and world) society.

At least in that country, life means life and murderers don't go unpunished.

Crap, crap and more crap.
Religion teaches you that it's alright to take slaves from other nations, rape your wife if she doesn't want to have sex, to even kill people for wearing cloths made of 2 (or more) fabrics and so forth

No, anarchy teaches you that.

I'm not a feminist, but I'm so good a lover, none of the girls I've dated seriously wasn't in the mood.

None of us asked about the second part, we don't give a crap about whore mongering.

Crap, crap and more crap.
Religion teaches you that it's alright to take slaves from other nations, rape your wife if she doesn't want to have sex, to even kill people for wearing cloths made of 2 (or more) fabrics and so forth


No, anarchy teaches you that.
Read the Bible, some of these are just plain stupid.
Such as: no sex during a woman's period. (leviticus 18:19)
no male homosexuality. (leviticus 18:22)
no cloths from 2 materials (leviticus 19:19)
don't cut sideburns or trim beards (leviticus 19:27)
don't cut the dead or get tattoos (leviticus 19:28)

Read the Bible, some of these are just plain stupid.
Such as: no sex during a woman's period. (leviticus 18:19)
no male homosexuality. (leviticus 18:22)
no cloths from 2 materials (leviticus 19:19)
don't cut sideburns or trim beards (leviticus 19:27)
don't cut the dead or get tattoos (leviticus 19:28)

(Ah, I enjoy a good debate)

All of the above quotes are from the Old Testament - the only religion which seriously takes those into consideration is Judaism which was never really that influence in Western Society, and which was never a dominant religion in New Zealand society or that of our British ancestors. Christianity has made the old testament largelt irrelevant.

For the record, conservative christian thought on everyday living is based on two items in the bible - the New Testament, and the idea of first principles (the first time something is mentioned in the Bible is God's view).

Read the Bible, some of these are just plain stupid.
Such as: no sex during a woman's period. (leviticus 18:19)
no male homosexuality. (leviticus 18:22)
no cloths from 2 materials (leviticus 19:19)
don't cut sideburns or trim beards (leviticus 19:27)
don't cut the dead or get tattoos (leviticus 19:28)

There's a difference between common sense and a lack of scientific understanding. And yes, the devil can cite Scripture for his own purpose.

Trimming beards and facial hair makes good hygene. I don't know about that religion, but no other would claim that certain materials cannont be worn together.

As for sex during period and homosexualism, that's the F*CKIN' DISGUSTING in any culture! And what civilized race would consider the 'pleasures' of tattooing or cutting up the dead?

There is a fine line between the two poles of sanity, anarchist arguments and the invalid points of guidance given by Leviticus are both occupants of insanity.

does someone want to tell me why, soldiers training for afghanistan, were dressed in their desert uniforms arresting men dressed as muslim clerics?
this absolutely disgusted me, and if it wasnt for them having live ammo on them i wolud have gone and given them a piece of my mind.

i mean, a few months ago, they were dressed in civilian clothes and carrying rifles, and actually staging am ATTACK on the camp. but no, they jsut ran up behind these guys, and started arresting them with no reason.

what is it we are training our soldiers to do over there?
********************************
different topic: anyone else laugh when both clarke and brash got kicked out of parliament a few days ago?

Read the Bible, some of these are just plain stupid.
Such as: no sex during a woman's period. (leviticus 18:19)
no male homosexuality. (leviticus 18:22)
no cloths from 2 materials (leviticus 19:19)
don't cut sideburns or trim beards (leviticus 19:27)
don't cut the dead or get tattoos (leviticus 19:28)
I fail to see the problem?

While on the topic of muslim dress...

http://www.artizara.com/IslamicClothing.html

Kinda funny, but it's surprisingly stylish.

There's a difference between common sense and a lack of scientific understanding. And yes, the devil can cite Scripture for his own purpose.

Trimming beards and facial hair makes good hygene. I don't know about that religion, but no other would claim that certain materials cannont be worn together.

As for sex during period and homosexualism, that's the F*CKIN' DISGUSTING in any culture! And what civilized race would consider the 'pleasures' of tattooing or cutting up the dead?

There is a fine line between the two poles of sanity, anarchist arguments and the invalid points of guidance given by Leviticus are both occupants of insanity.

How is me being gay affecting you? please answer that question.

does someone want to tell me why, soldiers training for afghanistan, were dressed in their desert uniforms arresting men dressed as muslim clerics?
this absolutely disgusted me, and if it wasnt for them having live ammo on them i wolud have gone and given them a piece of my mind.

i mean, a few months ago, they were dressed in civilian clothes and carrying rifles, and actually staging am ATTACK on the camp. but no, they jsut ran up behind these guys, and started arresting them with no reason.

what is it we are training our soldiers to do over there?
********************************
different topic: anyone else laugh when both clarke and brash got kicked out of parliament a few days ago?

Ya see, there's the spirit of mediocrity in this country. We don't support the war in Iraq, but we would like to "participate". It's not much different to the athletes flying over to Athens for the air points or getting a "Not Achieved" in NCEA.

About your claims of arresting clerics, I have no information of. In fact, those that preach fanatical and pro-terror sermons in Afghanistan would deserve some form of punishment, be it arrest. Fundamentally, in any hostile environment, arrests must be made by armed parties. You don't see much of that in this country, but overseas it's a lot different. Do not forget that many Afghanis hate the Taliban and speak of them with dread.

Many of us do not support the in Iraq, but Afghanistan's different. Remember, there were Kiwi lives lost in the Towers. Terror's an international problem. It's absolutely right and honorable to fight al Queda terrorists, but that cannot be used to justify the invasion of Iraq.

==========================================================

They both got kicked out? Why didn't I hear about this?!

I fail to see the problem?

He fails to see the difference between the primary teaching of religion on how to be a good citizen and dwells on an obscure and outdated chapter that boasts a lack of understanding and logic. What good comes out off the anarchist mind besides death and destruction?

How is me being gay affecting you? please answer that question.

Being a patriot, the whole openness about sex is a shame on the image of our land! Homosexualism is an immoral practice that no culture tolerates, it brings shame to the practising individual and his community. It is also a matter of ideology and you can rehabilitate gays.

http://stiktoons.diagonalmovement.com/NonStik/nz_flag.jpg

While on the topic of muslim dress...

http://www.artizara.com/IslamicClothing.html

Kinda funny, but it's surprisingly stylish.

My friend, that is called fashion. It ain't about religion or tradition, but fashion. This kind of traditional dress revival has been the most common recently in Egypt (one of the least restricting Muslim nations regarding female issues and attire). This is no different to the styles of women's fashions influenced by clothing of the Tang dynasty hitting the boutiques of China a few years back.

What sort of historical figures do you people admire?

I admit that I admire Hitler's nationalism (not racism) and there's no shame in that! I also admire former Chinese dictator Chiang Kai-shek because he fought the communist virus, redeemed himself from corruption after his flee from the Mainland and killed trainloads of Taiwanese separatists when he was in power.

About your claims of arresting clerics, I have no information of. In fact, those that preach fanatical and pro-terror sermons in Afghanistan would deserve some form of punishment, be it arrest. Fundamentally, in any hostile environment, arrests must be made by armed parties. You don't see much of that in this country, but overseas it's a lot different. Do not forget that many Afghanis hate the Taliban and speak of them with dread.

Many of us do not support the in Iraq, but Afghanistan's different. Remember, there were Kiwi lives lost in the Towers. Terror's an international problem. It's absolutely right and honorable to fight al Queda terrorists, but that cannot be used to justify the invasion of Iraq.

==========================================================

They both got kicked out? Why didn't I hear about this?!

they did not actually arest anyone, it was a training exercise, the army does one every month or so out here.
==================================================
yep, it was on the 10pm news either monday or tuesday. they kept argueing thorugh someone eles stament and got booted by the speaker

they did not actually arest anyone, it was a training exercise, the army does one every month or so out here.
==================================================
yep, it was on the 10pm news either monday or tuesday. they kept argueing thorugh someone eles stament and got booted by the speaker

If it was a training exercise, can you explain why is it so outrageous to you? I don't see a problem with it.

they did not actually arest anyone, it was a training exercise, the army does one every month or so out here.
==================================================
yep, it was on the 10pm news either monday or tuesday. they kept argueing thorugh someone eles stament and got booted by the speaker

If you have no knowledge of the military, do not be alarmed. It is perfectly legitimate in exercises to use live ammunition. Having danger in one's hands only enhance the discipline to control it. I assume that live ammo exercises such as that would be used to train effective arrests (where not a single shot would be fired). As it was not a combat exercise, live ammo can be used.

The military has to keep up with the times. During the Cold War, it was exercising how to fight the Russians (with one team employing Russian tactics). In the 21st Century, terror is a grave threat, so Islamic fundamentalists it is. The Army must also be careful with the wording of it's exercises, I saw on Maori TV last year that there was a former Army sniper who was a Maori and went on an exercise to "take out Maori activists", which was entirely innappropriate as groups of other agendas, such as anarchists and White supremacists could form such revolutionary terroristic movements. The best term for the "bad guys" could just generically be "terrorist" in general when it comes to titling exercises. It was a lame attempt to make the situation look real. As for that sniper, he retired from the Army after failing to complete the last objective in that exercise.

Wow! Guess the SAS are bugging the Maori Party.

Ya see, there's the spirit of mediocrity in this country. We don't support the war in Iraq, but we would like to "participate". It's not much different to the athletes flying over to Athens for the air points or getting a "Not Achieved" in NCEA.

The only reason why we're 'participating' because Helen thinks if we earn enough brownie points with the yanks, they'll agree to have a freetrade agreement with us - yes, she really is that naive.

I didn't agree with the war in Iraq, whilst at the same time, however, I didn't agree with the rubbish about "the enbargo is making the Iraqi's suffer" - a load of crap, food, medicine and a number of other items could come into the country unrestricted.

The underlying fact of the matter, Helen is quite willing to compromise her values when she can gain something political out of it; worse still, when knows the decision is wrong - like the NCEA qualification, and the 'single benefit', they still go ahead with it.

About your claims of arresting clerics, I have no information of. In fact, those that preach fanatical and pro-terror sermons in Afghanistan would deserve some form of punishment, be it arrest. Fundamentally, in any hostile environment, arrests must be made by armed parties. You don't see much of that in this country, but overseas it's a lot different. Do not forget that many Afghanis hate the Taliban and speak of them with dread.

I'm not surprised; the only ones who have been arrested, I'd say, are those who are openly inciting rebellion against the peace keepers, and supporting terrorist attacks - thats no different to a priest who may advocate the bombing of abortion clinics.

Many of us do not support the in Iraq, but Afghanistan's different. Remember, there were Kiwi lives lost in the Towers. Terror's an international problem. It's absolutely right and honorable to fight al Queda terrorists, but that cannot be used to justify the invasion of Iraq.

But at the same time, the threat of terrorism should result in the curbing of civil liberties and disrupting our way of life; as soon as we start bring in draconian legislation, we've already allowed the terrorists to win.

==========================================================

They both got kicked out? Why didn't I hear about this?!

It was on TV3 news a couple of days ago.

Just as a side bar, anyone notice the quality of TVNZ has gone so low, one would have to get a flash light and a very long ladder to get down into the hole its dug itself into - so low in quality, they're trying to target the lowest of the lowest of the lowest common denominator - the ones who couldn't even achieve School Certificate.

If it was a training exercise, can you explain why is it so outrageous to you? I don't see a problem with it.

because as i said:
last time they were having a combat simulation, the enemy was actually attacking their camp. this time they snuck up on the guys and arrestetd them for no reason, while tey were dressed as muslim clerics.

it is racism.

and they were not USING live ammo, but they CARRY 1 clip each of live ammo jsut in case.

Wow! Guess the SAS are bugging the Maori Party.

Don't you mean the SIS?

*Maori accent:*

"Oh sir, bro! I better get in character while I'm goin', eh? Check out what's in their hangi! Could be KFC or explosives, bro!"

http://www.specialoperations.com/Foreign/New_Zealand/exercise3.gif