NationStates Jolt Archive

Right, i know you lot are going to call me 'racist' and all that, but can you really blame me? In the first world war, i lost 1 great grandad and seven great uncles, and then in the second world war i lost both my grandads. All thanks to the germans. So if you lot hadn't gone and started BOTH wars, chances are, the world would be a much better and bigger place. Im just letting my point across. 'freedom of speech' and all that.'
and if your wondering about my name, im taking the pish.

You racist and all that.

http://www.boomerscafe.com/memorabilia/pics/tuna.jpg

Germans are just goosestepping nuts, huh. :p

Okay - blaming Germany for WWII, fair, but WWI?
They were pulled into the war by their treaty obligations - just like Russia, France, and the British Empire. Blame Austria-Hungary if you must point the finger. And as A-H got their empire carved up, I think that grude should be forgotten.
Also, the vast majority of Germans alive at the moment hadn't even been born in 1939! How are they to blame for what happened back then? Holding grudges when the people involved are dead is how you end up with those stupid wars in the Balkans.
Let's be smarter!

Contemporary Germans do not equal Germans from the World Wars. I can understand you hating the past and the German state of affairs from the past, but you have no reason to have negative feelings towards a peaceful and productive nation in Europe which has been working hard to clean it's dirty past and find a new life of prosperity and equality. I entreat you to get to know a German from this era and I know you'll be pleasantly surprised.

Ich mag Deutschland!

[I like Germany!]

You can't judge a country by the choices of their past leadership. Most modern Germans HATE any mention of Hitler's regime. And who can blame them?

Germany really is a very wonderful country full of many friendly people. You'd probably hate France if Hitler had been french and your relatives had died fighting them.

Yes you can dislike the Germans of the 1930's ans 40's, but most of them were ok. And those of today had nothing to do with it so why hate them?
It's like the Scots hating the English for things that happened donkeys years ago.

I know, but its just knowing that so many of my family would still be alive today. Have you heard of the 'Schlieffen Plan'? Seriously, look at it (drawn up in 1905) and tell me the Germans didnt plan to go to war in WW1. They had already devised all their tactics and everything 9 years before the war, and a few years before any tensions grew. They just used the whole A-H thing as an excuse, so that there wouldn't be a civil war in the country and to unite it and make a 'common enemy' instead of fighting with each other. Anyway, who used gas first - Germans
who invaded Belgium, France etc - Germans
who killed millions of Jews - Germans
who could of saved millions of innocent lives - Germans

Ich mag Deutschland!

[I like Germany!]

You can't judge a country by the choices of their past leadership. Most modern Germans HATE any mention of Hitler's regime. And who can blame them?

Germany really is a very wonderful country full of many friendly people. You'd probably hate France if Hitler had been french and your relatives had died fighting them.

Got a point there actually.

Ich mag Deutschland!

[I like Germany!]

You can't judge a country by the choices of their past leadership. Most modern Germans HATE any mention of Hitler's regime. And who can blame them?

Germany really is a very wonderful country full of many friendly people. You'd probably hate France if Hitler had been french and your relatives had died fighting them.

Strange, I hate France and like Germany.

Perhaps if Hitler had been French I would like France and hate Germany...perhaps.

I know, but its just knowing that so many of my family would still be alive today. Have you heard of the 'Schlieffen Plan'? Seriously, look at it (drawn up in 1905) and tell me the Germans didnt plan to go to war in WW1. They had already devised all their tactics and everything 9 years before the war, and a few years before any tensions grew. They just used the whole A-H thing as an excuse, so that there wouldn't be a civil war in the country and to unite it and make a 'common enemy' instead of fighting with each other. Anyway, who used gas first - Germans
who invaded Belgium, France etc - Germans
who killed millions of Jews - Germans
who could of saved millions of innocent lives - Germans

The fact that Germany prepared for the Great War doesn't mean they wanted to go to battle. The Germans lost an amazing amount of people fighting, and no other country really helped them out. When France recieved new American troops near the end of the war, Germany's soldiers continued fighting and dying regardless of the fact that they were losing the war and had no real hope of survival. German soldiers deserve just as much pity as other country's fallen.

Strange, I hate France and like Germany.

Perhaps if Hitler had been French I would like France and hate Germany...perhaps.

What would Hitler look like if he was French? Would he have a handlebar mustache?

What would Hitler look like if he was French? Would he have a handlebar mustache?

No, Hitler's 'stache transcends national borders.

No, Hitler's 'stache transcends national borders.

point.

I get along fine with Germans. Besides, my grandfathers got the better of the Germans, so there's no hate to inherit. One was in the navy and saw limited action, and got out without a scratch, and the other killed, among others, a German officer in the alps and got a comicbook character cameo after finding a hybrid luger/colt .45 on him. Neat stuff.

My grandfather (Lithuanian) was taken as forced labor by the Germans in WW2, and even he doesn't hate them. In fact, many of the German soldiers were kind and shared their rations with them, and even gave them alcohol. They usually didn't bother to enforce curfews.

These were Nazi soldiers, treating a group of people deemed "fit only for slavery" with kindness like this.

You simply cannot judge the population of an entire nation based on the historical behavior of it.

Of course, he did have some very bad experiences from them (being removed from his family for instance), but as a whole most of them were decent people at heart. On a side note, he was in Dresden when it was bombed, so he's seen the barbarism from both sides.

I like Germans. Passing hate to the descentants of bad people is really stupid. Germans these days are generally ashamed of Germany's past, but it had nothing to do with them so don't hold a grudge against them. That would be like disliking Americans for their ancestors' treatment of American Indians or disliking Australians for their ancestors' treatment of Aborigines, etc.

The Germans may have started the hate, but then they ended it. So should you.

Well, considering i am living here at the moment (brit abroad: OMG theres F.O.R.E.I.G.N.E.R.S everywhere!!!! ;) ), i have to say germany is a damn nice place to live, of course it has its problems, as does everywhere, but to be honest, the people are great (most of em), the food and drink is very very nice (until it gives you a heart attack from its fat content) and the cars rock (except for the old trabants they seem to have a affinity with...think of skodas, but worse much much worse)...as for the people who lived during the wars, i have spoken to a few...and believe me when i say that those i have met (unfortunately they have all passed away) were some of the nicest people you could ever wish to meet...so screw the stereotypes

I don't trust Germans.

They have caused my country so much pain over the past 100 years I doubt that I will ever forgive them.

:)

Show the thread starter that he's (almost) alone :)

Right, i know you lot are going to call me 'racist' and all that, but can you really blame me? In the first world war, i lost 1 great grandad and seven great uncles, and then in the second world war i lost both my grandads. All thanks to the germans. So if you lot hadn't gone and started BOTH wars, chances are, the world would be a much better and bigger place. Im just letting my point across. 'freedom of speech' and all that.'
and if your wondering about my name, im taking the pish.

Blame contemporaries for acts that lie between 60 and 70 years in the past? Don't be ridiculous!

(And no, I'm not German.)

Right, i know you lot are going to call me 'racist' and all that, but can you really blame me? In the first world war, i lost 1 great grandad and seven great uncles, and then in the second world war i lost both my grandads. All thanks to the germans. So if you lot hadn't gone and started BOTH wars, chances are, the world would be a much better and bigger place. Im just letting my point across. 'freedom of speech' and all that.'
and if your wondering about my name, im taking the pish.

You should really learn about history before you go and start complaining about what happened in it.
Germany did not start WWI
Hitler started WWII - most Germans only fought because they had too - conscripts or too afraid of being killed by the SS or SA

I know, but its just knowing that so many of my family would still be alive today. Have you heard of the 'Schlieffen Plan'? Seriously, look at it (drawn up in 1905) and tell me the Germans didnt plan to go to war in WW1. They had already devised all their tactics and everything 9 years before the war, and a few years before any tensions grew. They just used the whole A-H thing as an excuse, so that there wouldn't be a civil war in the country and to unite it and make a 'common enemy' instead of fighting with each other. civil war? that rubbish.
sure there were plans. it would be foolish to *not* have plans for any war that may happen. just like today, every army got some plans for a possible war with its neighbors. thats nothing unusual, its common sense.
in ww1 germany had no open land claims. those that it had, was taken from france in 71, unfortunatly the french wanted revenge and this land back that was the reason for the french-russian alliance.
who told you about this civil war stuff anyway?!?

Anyway, who used gas first - Germans different sources tell that different sides used it first. and on the other hand, does it really matter?
who invaded Belgium, France etc - Germans well, belgium was foolish to not let the german troops pass their lands. yes, they were asked, and then sent an ultimatum, and decided to ignore it.
and you blame germany for invading france? well, the generals knew they wouldnt survive a 2 front war for long, so 1 side must be defeated fast or the defeat is inevitable in the end (hasnt it prooven that they were right?). they dicided it should be france, cause the way to paris isnt so long as the one to st. petersburg is + they dont have the russian hordes. and instead of running against the hugh fortifications at the french-german borders, they decided to go through belgium. serious, do you know another way if you dont want to loose this war?!?
who could of saved millions of innocent lives - Germans and no other side could? strange logic you have here. :headbang:

and i doubt your a german. your a american, and try to proove some point arent you?

If you didn't obey, you were put in a concentration camp to be gassed or in a working camp to work until you died. Either way, it was better to just shut up and do what the boss wanted.

I don't trust Germans.

They have caused my country so much pain over the past 100 years I doubt that I will ever forgive them.
What country would that be?

What country would that be?
Poland maybe?

That would be like disliking Americans for their ancestors' treatment of American Indians or disliking Australians for their ancestors' treatment of Aborigines, etc.
.

Except that those abominations are still going on ...

civil war? that rubbish.
sure there were plans. it would be foolish to *not* have plans for any war that may happen. just like today, every army got some plans for a possible war with its neighbors. thats nothing unusual, its common sense.
in ww1 germany had no open land claims. those that it had, was taken from france in 71, unfortunatly the french wanted revenge and this land back that was the reason for the french-russian alliance.
who told you about this civil war stuff anyway?!?

different sources tell that different sides used it first. and on the other hand, does it really matter?
well, belgium was foolish to not let the german troops pass their lands. yes, they were asked, and then sent an ultimatum, and decided to ignore it.
and you blame germany for invading france? well, the generals knew they wouldnt survive a 2 front war for long, so 1 side must be defeated fast or the defeat is inevitable in the end (hasnt it prooven that they were right?). they dicided it should be france, cause the way to paris isnt so long as the one to st. petersburg is + they dont have the russian hordes. and instead of running against the hugh fortifications at the french-german borders, they decided to go through belgium. serious, do you know another way if you dont want to loose this war?!?
and no other side could? strange logic you have here. :headbang:

and i doubt your a german. your a american, and try to proove some point arent you?

applauds - and i beleive it was the allies that firebombed Dresden - a civilian industrial town not a military base

Ich liebe Deustchland!

I love Germany.

I can understand hating the Nazis that killed your relatives, but not current day Germans. They have done nothing to you.

I know, but its just knowing that so many of my family would still be alive today. Have you heard of the 'Schlieffen Plan'? Seriously, look at it (drawn up in 1905) and tell me the Germans didnt plan to go to war in WW1.
You tell me the british or French didn't have warplans of their own.
Like the British French naval agreement of 1912. In which Britain in case of a German French war would have the Royal Navy protect the French coast.
And the French would pull together the bulk of their fleet in the mediterinian. They even finished moving their ships the same year already. Or the adaption of the blockade strategy by Britain. Since Germany was heavily reliant on imports for it's raw materials and food. This would target the civilan population which was a direct violation of the treaty of Paris of 1853 of which Britain also was a signatory. The plans for this where first conceived in 1905. They leaked out and led to a German British arms race. But the Royal Navy pressed on and made this the official strategy in 1909. Yeah, the poor sodds. They were so innocent and only wished for peace. I don't feel a bit sorry for you.

Germany is a lovely country, and it's people are shameful of their ancestors. I respect the fact they rebuilt their country into a wonderful place, and that they celebrate the lives of those who actually tried to kill hitler.

But one question always runs through my mind-How did a bunch of madmen brainwash a nation to fight for them and kill all jews?

and it's people are shameful of their ancestors.
I'm not. Theres nothing bout my ancestors I would have to be ashamed of.

Right, i know you lot are going to call me 'racist' and all that, but can you really blame me? In the first world war, i lost 1 great grandad and seven great uncles, and then in the second world war i lost both my grandads. All thanks to the germans. So if you lot hadn't gone and started BOTH wars, chances are, the world would be a much better and bigger place. Im just letting my point across. 'freedom of speech' and all that.'
and if your wondering about my name, im taking the pish.

Technically it was the Austro-Hungarian Empire that started the First World War, Germany was just allied with them....

Oh, and the Second World war was started by an Austrian who happened to get control of Germany.

So, if you want to get down to basics, you should blame the Austrians and the Hungarians. Or, just blame everyone that isn't you!

Germany is a lovely country, and it's people are shameful of their ancestors. I respect the fact they rebuilt their country into a wonderful place, and that they celebrate the lives of those who actually tried to kill hitler.

But one question always runs through my mind-How did a bunch of madmen brainwash a nation to fight for them and kill all jews?
Ah prior to the internet and free media, brainwashing a nation by releasing propaganda and selective news was easy enough. People simply had to believe what they were told and in this case, they were told that the Jews are the root of all the world's evil and Germany's suffering. Not to mention the way oppressive demands of reparations payments from the allies after WW1 (Versailles Treaty), the Weimar Republic had to start with very unfavourable circumstances and inevitably failed when Germany's and the rest of the world's economy, died in a great depression. Either way, the path to WW2 was already laid out at the end of WW1 when Germany was "looted" for the British and French to be able to repay their loans to the US. If anyone is responsible for WW2 and the ramping up to it, then it's the allies with their oppressive Versailles Treaty.

I'm not. Theres nothing bout my ancestors I would have to be ashamed of.
Same. I love my grandparents. They suffered during the war and my grandfather survived despite being a soldier in WW2. They were not responsible for what happened and I don't blame them for it. Especially my grandmother however, is bitter against the Americans and British due to the unnecessary firebombing of Dresden. She lived through that aswell, barely.

I'm not. Theres nothing bout my ancestors I would have to be ashamed of.

Well i suppose not everyone is. but a majority are.

Well i suppose not everyone is. but a majority are.
They are shameful of a history they had no doing in. I don't understand it. Collective guilt of a nation for it's past actions comitted by people who are either long dead or dieing, is wrong. It is constantly abused with the Germans to demand more money from us.

I am from Australia.

The Germans are probably nice people and are probably ashamed of their nations past. But I think they will always be stuck with their past as long as the world remebers

Germany is a lovely country, and it's people are shameful of their ancestors. im not. one of my grandfathers was in russia, then in the sibirian gulags and died in 56 one month after he returned. he was a doctor and i dont think i must be ashamed of him.
the other one was in the later years of the north afrika campaign, and then in the defence of italy. he was oberleutnant there until he was badly injured by a granade and spend late 44 and the rest of the war in a hospital. he died 2 years ago. i dont feel ashamed of his too. why? both did what they had to do and defended the country the best they could, and they werent part of any atrocity.
But one question always runs through my mind-How did a bunch of madmen brainwash a nation to fight for them and kill all jews?
and answer is complicated and not short to answer. the best start for it is probably the versailles treaty. i suggest you look it up.

I am British and love Germany. I prefer Germans to French anyway. I speak both languages and the Germans do not mind, unlike the French if I get a tiny bit wrong. Most Germans I know or have spoken to, much prefer us English to to the French as well.

Course, the war, (it had to get mentioned) was a terrible part of their history. But at least, the Germans look back on their past and accept it and are ashamed of it. Most French I have spoken to, get very miffed if after they've given you a 5 minute lecture on how great the French were for liberating Paris and how great De Gaulle was, if you go and say "what about 1940?" or if you remind them of where De Gaulle was exiled to (London) and of the role played by Britain, the USA and the USSR. You mention that and the French go quiet. I know a German who is a big fan of Fawlty Towers and who's favourite quote from it is "Don't mention the war." This is because he gets the joke is directed towards Basil's sheer bigotry and he is not scared of talking about his history.

I just for the record, do not hate the French. I like their food and culture even if their politics stinks. I just do not like this rather forgetful/bigoted aspect of French people.

I'm not stuck with the past. The 12 years between 1933 and 1945 were bad and should have been avoided, but they happened. *shrug*
I'm not responsible for it and I don't support it, but I don't feel any guilt for it nor will I ever feel guilty for it.

I do however look back on the 2 thousand years of German culture and 1 thousand years of the German nation during which it became a great power militarily and culturally. Unfortunately two world wars (and politicians from Britain or France who were afraid of a strong Germany) ruined this. Fact is and remains, Germany has done more good than bad in the years of it's existence and 12 years of national-sozialism will not erradicate that despite the atrocities comitted on all sides.

The Germany doesn't have to blamed for WW1 and WW2. Because the British and French governments had a chance to take Hitler off (not kill). They might not to allow him to occupie Rhein, not let him Occupie Austria, Czekoslovakia. In a case when the Czecks had been chosen to warfare with Germans with help of France and Britain, then Hitler had to sent 35 divisions to Czeckoslovakia and would have to leave only 15 divisions to secure Germany's west borders. France had for that time 100 divisions. But after Munchen's Agreement it was too late for Western Democracies.
That's that, cheers! :D

I am from Australia.

So. And what great pains did we cause Australia over the past 100 years?

im not. one of my grandfathers was in russia, then in the sibirian gulags and died in 56 one month after he returned. he was a doctor and i dont think i must be ashamed of him.
the other one was in the later years of the north afrika campaign, and then in the defence of italy. he was oberleutnant there until he was badly injured by a granade and spend late 44 and the rest of the war in a hospital. he died 2 years ago. i dont feel ashamed of his too. why? both did what they had to do and defended the country the best they could, and they werent part of any atrocity.

and answer is complicated and not short to answer. the best start for it is probably the versailles treaty. i suggest you look it up.

Guten tag. Wo sind sie?

I don't trust Germans.

They have caused my country so much pain over the past 100 years I doubt that I will ever forgive them.

I am from Australia.

The Germans are probably nice people and are probably ashamed of their nations past. But I think they will always be stuck with their past as long as the world remebers


Umm. Pain? To our country? Huh?

Pain to our entirely volunteer army corps you mean? You can't hold a grudge against a nation for fighting our soldiers if we went to Europe in order to fight them.

The Germans were the best soldiers of WW2, but they had bad politicans.
The Latvians were the best foreign "volunteers" of WW2 who were on Germany's side.
Bolshevics :mp5: Latvians

So. And what great pains did we cause Australia over the past 100 years?
i think germany did sent 8 submarines to the pacific to help the japanese. the "Monsum Boats" :rolleyes:

Indeed - im half German half Australian living in Australia - they didnt do anything to this country. If you want to hate a country for causing Australia pain then it should be the japanese not the germans.

i think germany did sent 8 submarines to the pacific to help the japanese. the "Monsum Boats" :rolleyes:
The what now?

Guten tag. Wo sind sie?
auf der Arbeit, in Deutschland, im Ruhrgebiet.
Danke der nachfrage :D

my grandmother however, is bitter against the Americans and British due to the unnecessary firebombing of Dresden. She lived through that aswell, barely.
Ever heard of Coventry? :upyours:

Ever heard of Coventry? :upyours:
Yes. A plan of Churchill that actually worked. Gotta give him credit for that.

auf der Arbeit, in Deutschland, im Ruhrgebiet.
Danke der nachfrage :D

Ich liebe gern Deutschland. Ich habe eine Freundin in der nahe von Koln wohnt. Ich habe Berlin mit meine Freundin besucht. Heil Deutschland un Heil Grossbritannien!


Forgive me if I have made any mistakes. Typing in German is far harder for me than speaking it.

Ever heard of Coventry? :upyours:

That'll be the City that got bombed to the ground because Germany had bad intelligence that this was the location of main Allied weapons production. On top of that, Churchill knew they were going to attack as the Allies had recently secured the Enigma machine from a German U-boat (oh, and it was the British that got the Enigma machine, contrary to popular Hollywood belief). He made the decision not to evacuate Coventry as this would alert the Germans to the Allies new secret weapon.

Incidently, the main weapons plant for the Allied forces was in South Wales, near a town called Bridgend (my home town) and the majority of my relatives who were alive during the war worked in the factories.

Yes. A plan of Churchill that actually worked. Gotta give him credit for that.
Must make you proud the flames could be seen for over 100 miles.
How many medals where awarded for that blitz of civilians?

The what now?
its true. in early 44 germany did send a handfull (6 or 8 im not sure) uboats to the pacific to help the japanese and let them study their design. this boats were called "Monsum Boote".
its not impossible that they sunk one or two australian ships as well.

just a little note why an australian may be angry about us, kind of a joke, cause what great influence can these few boats have...

That'll be the City that got bombed to the ground because Germany had bad intelligence that this was the location of main Allied weapons production. On top of that, Churchill knew they were going to attack as the Allies had recently secured the Enigma machine from a German U-boat (oh, and it was the British that got the Enigma machine, contrary to popular Hollywood belief). He made the decision not to evacuate Coventry as this would alert the Germans to the Allies new secret weapon.

Incidently, the main weapons plant for the Allied forces was in South Wales, near a town called Bridgend (my home town) and the majority of my relatives who were alive during the war worked in the factories.
Plus Coventry was a great excuse for the Allied terror bombing campaign which culminated in Dresden.

I know, but its just knowing that so many of my family would still be alive today. Have you heard of the 'Schlieffen Plan'? Seriously, look at it (drawn up in 1905) and tell me the Germans didnt plan to go to war in WW1. They had already devised all their tactics and everything 9 years before the war, and a few years before any tensions grew. They just used the whole A-H thing as an excuse, so that there wouldn't be a civil war in the country and to unite it and make a 'common enemy' instead of fighting with each other. Anyway, who used gas first - Germans
who invaded Belgium, France etc - Germans
who killed millions of Jews - Germans
who could of saved millions of innocent lives - Germans

You mean Wilhelm planned to go to war. Ordinary Germans didn't plan anything. Generally WW1 happened because people were afraid of being invaded first - it was all one big paranoid cock-up - all because a pacifist was assassinated (Franz Ferdinand wanted to use tolerance to keep the AH empire united).

And WW2? Hitler and his Nazis, not Germany, went to war there. WW1 and the Treaty of Versailles made a second war inevitable.

You have to remember that it was a different world, too. War was far more acceptable (though no less horrific).

Also, what were your grandparents doing? They were fighting for their country. Did they kill no one? And what were the people who killed them doing? Fighting for their country or going on a murderous rampage? Think about it.

Today the usa are fighting wars to get oil. Thats like the same shit Nazi-Deutschland did in the past.

I know, but its just knowing that so many of my family would still be alive today. Have you heard of the 'Schlieffen Plan'? Seriously, look at it (drawn up in 1905) and tell me the Germans didnt plan to go to war in WW1. They had already devised all their tactics and everything 9 years before the war, and a few years before any tensions grew. They just used the whole A-H thing as an excuse, so that there wouldn't be a civil war in the country and to unite it and make a 'common enemy' instead of fighting with each other. Anyway, who used gas first - Germans
who invaded Belgium, France etc - Germans
who killed millions of Jews - Germans
who could of saved millions of innocent lives - Germans

No way man Germany had to prepare for war because Britain would not share the trade.
The Schlieffen(He said on his death bed dont change the plans it was meant to be a hammer against an anvil) plan was changed by Von Moltke((liked idea of 2 weaker anvils smashing things)also said to have only smiled 2ice once on seeing inferior swedish* defenses and the other time when hearing his mother in law died)so then you could say any plan that was copied or extended meant that nation was prepared for war.

Charles the Rash of Burgundy used Alexanders,Julius Ceasar's tactics etc so does that mean Burgundy was preparing for war 2000+ years ago?

You most always be prepared for war.

Damn it Regal Assinations are a big deal.

WWI was not lost by Germany Russia lost.
When Troops returned they had not lost the war an armistace was signed enabling everyone to return home.Backstabbing Politicians were coerced into singing treaty of "Versialles"
as a result

Ich liebe gern Deutschland. Ich habe eine Freundin in der nahe von Koln wohnt. Ich habe Berlin mit meine Freundin besucht. Heil Deutschland un Heil Grossbritannien!


Forgive me if I have made any mistakes. Typing in German is far harder for me than speaking it.
then better speak english again.

Köln is nice. have been to it very often, its not so far away you know. but ive never been to berlin. dunno, some say its a shithole and others say its great.
and your from england?
and you should avoid "heil" ... it has a rather uh dark underline (sp?) and you could get some strange looks here... better is "hoch" lebe deutschland und großbrittanien! (hoch = high or great in this connection)

Today the usa are fighting wars to get oil. Thats like the same shit Nazi-Deutschland did in the past.

we've known that for a while.

Ich mag Deutschland!

I'm not. Theres nothing bout my ancestors I would have to be ashamed of.
A whole country taken in by a Charlie Chaplin impersonator (or the worlds best slug balancer) in thigh lenght leather boots, I would be ashamed!!! :D

The Germans are great people, don't knock them.
They may have been preparing for WW1, but so was every other country.

You cannot even truly blame them for WW2 either.
The Treaty of Versailles was totally unjust, the Allies were asking for another war.
The Depression didn't help either, as it allowed Hitler to gain power. The German people didn't ask to be thrown into disaster a second time, it was just the unfortunate circumstances they found themselves in, where Hitler provided the best way out.
The Germans aren't the only nation to have had a problem with Jews either. Russia experienced violence against them during the whole early 1900's.

i think germany did sent 8 submarines to the pacific to help the japanese. the "Monsum Boats" :rolleyes:

Yeah Japs ended up capturing them when Hun surrended.Thats what allies are for.

You can blame all Germans for the two world wars. But then your have to blame the British for all the countries it pulled into the empire and forced the natives into slavery and left a legacy of India and Pakistian on the edge of war. Plus King James deciding he fancied having Ireland and causing the Northern Ireland problem and all the people who died because of it.
Then the Amercians you can blame for more slavery and killing native Indians. The French and Spanish for killing people in the countries they "Discovered" and stole all their Gold.
Middle Eastern countries for looking after mass murdering terrorists.
Infact I think we all pretty much quits.

I'd like to express my appreciation for the overwhelming amount of reason and humanism that I found in this thread. This is especially for those who, entirely rightly so, state that nowadays' generations cannot be held responsible for what SOME of their forefathers did in the past.

The original post is flawed in more than one respect.

1) Since when can one blame individuals (today's Germans) for deeds they haven't done at all? Illogical. (Been said in most replies, thanks once more.)

2) WW1 is difficult. Germany isn't alone to blame for it; but if they had taken a firm stance on Austria-Hungary concerning the Ultimatum to Serbia, the war might have been prevented. This is fruitless historical speculation, of course. By that time, every European power wanted to go to war anyway.

3) WW2 is due to Hitler and the Nazis. They never represented ALL of Germany; they never got more than 44% in elections (still far too much), but they had been given power as a matter of fact. The ordinary Germans were not rejoicing at all when they heard in the radio that "From 9:30 we are shooting back!"

Those who wonder why the righteous Germans did nothing to prevent the nazi dictatorship from happening (after 1933) should seriously dig into themselves and brutally honestly ask themselves if they would have had the courage and backbone to stand up against a system where the slightest criticism is one's death warrant. It's easy to condemn. It's not so easy to knowingly put your life and that of your children and family at risk.
What would you have done? Think twice, superhero.

3) Despite economic troubles and quarrels about the social system, Germany is still among the most stable democracies in the world. The French-German friendship laid the foundations for the EU; which means that war between the large European powers has become entirely unthinkable. This is the work of Adenauer and de Gaulle.

4) There are, indeed, still some nazis in Germany. But no matter where you go, some people will never learn. Germany has the NPD and DVU, Britain has FN and BNP, France has Le Pen, Belgium has the Vlaamse Blok, the USA have the KKK and White Aryans, to name but a few.

In 2004, "you don't have to be Kraut to be a nazi no more."

Based on its history, Germany is the country that takes its responsibility most seriously. You can wave the swastika flag in any country except Germany, and rightly so.

In summary, my generation refuse to accept any guilt and blame for what we haven't done and can't have done. But we know our responsibility to be watchful and to never let it happen again.

Einigkeit und Recht und Freiheit.
Unity, Justice, and Freedom.

The Germans are great people, don't knock them.
They may have been preparing for WW1, but so was every other country.

You cannot even truly blame them for WW2 either.
The Treaty of Versailles was totally unjust, the Allies were asking for another war.
The Depression didn't help either, as it allowed Hitler to gain power. The German people didn't ask to be thrown into disaster a second time, it was just the unfortunate circumstances they found themselves in, where Hitler provided the best way out.
The Germans aren't the only nation to have had a problem with Jews either. Russia experienced violence against them during the whole early 1900's.

Yeah French invasion of the Ruhr* caused depression

then better speak english again.

Köln is nice. have been to it very often, its not so far away you know. but ive never been to berlin. dunno, some say its a shithole and others say its great.
and your from england?
and you should avoid "heil" ... it has a rather uh dark underline (sp?) and you could get some strange looks here... better is "hoch" lebe deutschland und großbrittanien! (hoch = high or great in this connection)

Hey..give him/her credit for trying. I was nervous the first time I spoke the language to a German, for fear of messing up, but I wanted to give an effort.It's better to mess up while making the effort, I believe,and be corrected, than simply not trying.

I agree, though, about staying away from "heil"..

speaking the language isn't so bad, its writing the damn thing and remembering every single damn little grammar rule...when you speak you can just slur the endings so it sounds like you know what you are talking about :D

auf der Arbeit, in Deutschland, im Ruhrgebiet.
Danke der nachfrage :D


Nach Suffolk, GB verzogener Ruhri.

Schöne Grüße.

Must make you proud the flames could be seen for over 100 miles.
How many medals where awarded for that blitz of civilians?
probably a few.
how many were awarded for Hamburg, Berlin, Köln (aso) ? ;)

2) WW1 is difficult. Germany isn't alone to blame for it; but if they had taken a firm stance on Austria-Hungary concerning the Ultimatum to Serbia, the war might have been prevented. This is fruitless historical speculation, of course. By that time, every European power wanted to go to war anyway.

Prevented it? No. Postponed at best. Like you said. Everyone was itching for a good brawl.

Ich liebe gern Deutschland. Ich habe eine Freundin in der nahe von Koln wohnt. Ich habe Berlin mit meine Freundin besucht. Heil Deutschland un Heil Grossbritannien!


Forgive me if I have made any mistakes. Typing in German is far harder for me than speaking it.


Wie schön, wie schön.

Aber das mit dem "heil" laß mal bleiben. Seit 1945 mega-out.

I'd like to express my appreciation for the overwhelming amount of reason and humanism that I found in this thread. This is especially for those who, entirely rightly so, state that nowadays' generations cannot be held responsible for what SOME of their forefathers did in the past.


Those who wonder why the righteous Germans did nothing to prevent the nazi dictatorship from happening (after 1933) should seriously dig into themselves and brutally honestly ask themselves if they would have had the courage and backbone to stand up against a system where the slightest criticism is one's death warrant. It's easy to condemn. It's not so easy to knowingly put your life and that of your children and family at risk.
What would you have done? Think twice, superhero.

Einigkeit und Recht und Freiheit.
Unity, Justice, and Freedom.

Damn right how can one person make a stand against 60 million people tat you dont know if they agree or not.
i think only 22 were hanged at the Nuremburg fiasco.

Prevented it? No. Postponed at best. Like you said. Everyone was itching for a good brawl.


You are right.

In summary, my generation refuse to accept any guilt and blame for what we haven't done and can't have done. But we know our responsibility to be watchful and to never let it happen again.
In return we promise never to invade India or send tea to Boston.
Come to think of it, probably best time for you to start again while our allies are busy with Iraqi.

A whole country taken in by a Charlie Chaplin impersonator (or the worlds best slug balancer) in thigh lenght leather boots, I would be ashamed!!! :D


Let's hope Bush is not your Prez.

(no offense)

Let's hope Bush is not your Prez.

(no offense)
Having a nation run by a Cheeta impersonator. Now that's truly something to be ashamed of. :D

The Germans are a people of über-pedantic, whining, ever-handwringing, socialism-embracing, spineless and humourless pussies now. :D

PS: Edit for adding one more negative attribute to my people. ;)

It's nice how we ignore things like how Russia was also trying to conquer the world in ww2. Oh, and how about the Japanese Americans who were stripped of their possessions and put into concentration camps? The Germans would have had to put Jews into concentration camps regardless of whether they hated them or not, they would act against the Germans. The Americans were not suffering as the Germans were, and only had to make their Concentration camp workers do a little to keep them busy, whereas the Germans didn't have enough food to feed the Jews. Who are you going to feed, your soldiers or the Jews? The hatred was probably created to justify what already had to be done. As the world is now, the only people I dislike are the Americans and the Australians. Americans because they exploit other nations and Australians becuase they cheat at swimming in the Olympics.

Hey..give him/her credit for trying. I was nervous the first time I spoke the language to a German, for fear of messing up, but I wanted to give an effort.It's better to mess up while making the effort, I believe,and be corrected, than simply not trying.

I agree, though, about staying away from "heil"..
i agree with you here. better try and mess up than not try at all. and it wasnt bad at all.
on http://www.bbc.co.uk/languages/community/lost_words/german_29.shtml
they have a collection of stuff people made wrong when talking in a foreign language. the part of german is great, go and have a look, youll probably have a good laugh. (too bad i only speak german and english)

btw. i thought my english is good... until ive called someone in england who was (i think) from scotland! eeeeeeeeevil accent :(

The Germans are a people of über-pedantic, whining, ever-handwringing, socialism-embracing, spineless and humourless pussies now. :D

PS: Edit for adding one more negative attribute to my people. ;)

Talking "Ossis", eh?

Hähähähähähä....

Not meant seriously.

Nach Suffolk, GB verzogener Ruhri.

Schöne Grüße.
hey nicht schlecht.
hast ein job da? will nämlich auch aus dem loch hier weg. :cool:

As the world is now, the only people I dislike are the Americans and the Australians. Americans because they exploit other nations and Australians becuase they cheat at swimming in the Olympics.

Hey! :D

I would take offense at that comment, but I;
1. wouldn't be surprised if we did (not as if nobody else does...),
and 2. Don't actually care about sport, let alone the advertising bonanza that the olympics has become. :rolleyes:

hey nicht schlecht.
hast ein job da? will nämlich auch aus dem loch hier weg. :cool:

Hab ich. Mit Steuern, Sozialversicherung und allem. Macht mich nicht reich, aber wir 3 leben ganz gut. In DE hätte ich keine Chance.

Can't we all agree to dis-agree and get on with hating the french together?

Can't we all agree to dis-agree and get on with hating the french together?


i suppose so :D

Can't we all agree to dis-agree and get on with hating the french together?

If only it where that simple...

Nowadays, there's just so many countries to hate, you just don't know who to choose. :rolleyes:

hey nicht schlecht.
hast ein job da? will nämlich auch aus dem loch hier weg. :cool:
Welches loch ist das denn?

Talking "Ossis", eh?

Hähähähähähä....

Not meant seriously.

Naw, I really mean all of them, but yeh, speaking about Wessis...

I forgot the attributes: snobby, uppity and arrogant which exactly fits to Germans alot. :p

If only it where that simple...

Nowadays, there's just so many countries to hate, you just don't know who to choose. :rolleyes:
Try cutting it down to ones that speak french. ;)

If only it where that simple...

Nowadays, there's just so many countries to hate, you just don't know who to choose. :rolleyes:
what countrys are there to choose?
hm america probably wins hands down anyway but why dont you make a poll?
-america
-australia
-austria
-france
-uk
-china
-japan
-russia
-luxemburg (the biggest, and most aggressive villain ever! :D )

on a second thought, america wont win once all the americans wake up and assault the forum :eek:

what countrys are there to choose?
hm america probably wins hands down anyway but why dont you make a poll?
-america
-australia
-austria
-france
-uk
-china
-japan
-russia
-luxemburg (the biggest, and most aggressive villain ever! :D )

You forgot the totalitarian, war-mongering, lawless, megalomaniac rogue state of Liechtenstein. :D

Welches loch ist das denn?
asi Bottrop.
schlimmer gehts nimmer. :headbang:

what countrys are there to choose?
hm america probably wins hands down anyway but why dont you make a poll?
-america
-australia
-austria
-france
-uk
-china
-japan
-russia
-luxemburg (the biggest, and most aggressive villain ever! :D )
What about the Swiss? Never forgiven them for their pen knifes or triangular chocolate.

on a second thought, america wont win once all the americans wake up and assault the forum :eek:

Thought this thread seemed more civil than usual ;)

You forgot North Korea, Afganistan, Iraq, Israel, Palestine, Saudi Arabia, and the Vatican.

See what I mean? So many choices!

asi Bottrop.
schlimmer gehts nimmer. :headbang:

"Cheri, küss mich da, wo's am meisten stinkt!"

"Nee, ich fahr getz nich nach Bottrop mit dir."

(Sorry :D:D )

You forgot the totalitarian, war-mongering, lawless, megalomaniac rogue state of Liechtenstein. :D
yeah they are frightening!
they even made a game about the liechtensteiner, take a look: www.howevilareyou.com

asi Bottrop.
schlimmer gehts nimmer. :headbang:
Ist das nich wo auch Warner Bro's Movieworld ist? Was is denn so schlimm an Bottrop?

what countrys are there to choose?
hm america probably wins hands down anyway but why dont you make a poll?
-america
-australia
-austria
-france
-uk
-china
-japan
-russia
-luxemburg (the biggest, and most aggressive villain ever! :D )

Åland for having no military would be a good start and I really,really do hate the States of Alderny, a villanous island state known for its brutally peaceful beach culture of sunbathing terrorism.

-"Nobody who speaks german can be evil!"
(Homer Simpson)

An excerpt from the funny examples of English speakers trying to speak German:

Too much information
On a trip to Germany I had quite an experience. Feeling warm, I said to a young lady whom I had just met in Germany, Ich bin heiss. She looked a little startled, but nothing was said.
Being puzzled I later asked a German friend about it, and he told me "Oh dear, that means you're horny". "Ah", I said, "I suppose I should have said Ich bin warm. "No", he said, " that means you are gay".
The correct phrase is Mir ist heiss.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/languages/community/lost_words/german_7.shtml

Oh yeah, another funny one:

This cat's got balls
Some years ago I was working as a language assistant in Germany. One of the teachers invited me to her house and by way of making small talk, I pronounced as her tom cat walked into the room: Ihr Kater hat so schöne große Eier. In the ensuing shocked silence, I suddenly realised I had translated eyes as Eier. What I'd really said was "your tom-cat's got lovely big balls!"

Editor's note: This mistake is easily made. Eier sounds very much like "eyes" and means quite innocently "eggs" but is also used as a colloquial term for "testicles". Eleanor should have said Ihr Kater hat so schöne große Augen.

You forgot North Korea, Afganistan, Iraq, Israel, Palestine, Saudi Arabia, and the Vatican.

See what I mean? So many choices!
North Korea - small time dictator. not very agressive, likes sable rattling and cooperates with its neighbors (SKorea). if theyre any danger, theyre a danger to china and japan.

Afghanistan - no danger anymore. occupied by lots of countrys, but is still run by warlords. not dangerous through, they can barely afford their AK47 and a piece of bread. can be safely ignored.

iraq - occupied by americans, will sooner or later have a civil war at hand. may later be a danger to america and israel, but that will take years.

israel - now here we have a danger. they have a strong military and prooven their ignorance for all theatys, and disrespect of other countrys borders. but are on the other hand heavily dependent on american dollars, so the real danger of israel comes from america.

Palestine - lol danger? they get invaded every month and the only response is to waste their own citizens with suicide attack. they dont even have a goverment!

Saudi Arabia - they are somewhat dangerous, in an indirect way. they control oil, and oil is needed everywhere. the solution to this problem is to get ohter sources of oil or get technology that doesnt need oil. and their supply of oil will run out about 2010-2020 so their danger is on a time limit, as well as our industrial capacity.

vatican - they control a world wide network of followers, indoctrinate their believers brainwashing books and speeches and even have influence over politics. the donations of their followers made them incredible rich too. but the evils of this organisation is already so wide spread that its impossible to remove. they have their signs and ritualistic houses in every city, so im afraid we must live with their evilness.

An excerpt from the funny examples of English speakers trying to speak German:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/languages/community/lost_words/german_7.shtml

:D
From that page:
Exciting appetizer
In my second week in Cologne, Germany, I was invited to a restaurant by my new German co-workers. I could have ordered in English, but was determined to impress everyone at the table, so I told the waiter: Als Vorspiel hätte ich gern Spargelsuppe. Everyone exploded into laughter and I was informed that I had just ordered asparagus soup as foreplay instead of Vorspeise - which is German for 'appetizer'. I got an extra-large portion of soup to soothe my wounded ego!

I've never had much to do with germans or germany and I always assumed that they were much like everyone else. Until the "Turkey in the EU" thread suddenly became full of germans (and a belgian as it happens) saying things like

Turkey shouldn't be in the EU because it is geographically in Asia.

Turkey shouldn't be in the EU because its culture is not European.

Turkey shouldn't be in the EU because then Turks will come to our country and swamp our culture.

I would expect this kind of opinion from a tiny minority of brits. But it seems very popular in Germany. The "they aren't like us, they don't speak our language, look at the way they make our streets look like their streets" I thought should have died in Germany after denazification. Doesn't it sound familiar to you German people?

I know, but its just knowing that so many of my family would still be alive today. Have you heard of the 'Schlieffen Plan'? Seriously, look at it (drawn up in 1905) and tell me the Germans didnt plan to go to war in WW1. They had already devised all their tactics and everything 9 years before the war, and a few years before any tensions grew. They just used the whole A-H thing as an excuse, so that there wouldn't be a civil war in the country and to unite it and make a 'common enemy' instead of fighting with each other. Anyway, who used gas first - Germans
who invaded Belgium, France etc - Germans
who killed millions of Jews - Germans
who could of saved millions of innocent lives - Germans

The Schlieffan plan was to go through belgium and get to france before the war could get into full flight. Saying that though they all had plans to expand their empire including great britain. We only hear the good part about us because we won :)

And that doesn't fight the original argument that you can't blame the Germans of today. Only playful hating like scots and brits. The first thing you used to learn in German was how to insult one ;)

It's not nazi ideology to want to preserve one's own culture. Our criminal statistics support the claim that integration of foreigners (especially turks) is difficult or impossible to do. Until there is a decent form of integration of foreigners and them agreeing to learn German and fit themselves into our society, we'll probably never accept Turkey in the EU. Thats why the government is afraid of a referendum or a petition, which is currently aimed for by the conservatives. The population does not want Turkey in the EU and the government wants to decide this against the will of the people.

Ist das nich wo auch Warner Bro's Movieworld ist? Was is denn so schlimm an Bottrop?
ach alles. mehr türken als in istanbul, arbeitslosigkeit fast 20% und hat einen extrem schlechten ruf. und ich häng hier fest ohne job in diesem drecksloch. außerdem sieht selbst ein blinder das die spd deutschland unangespitzt in die scheisse reitet, und selbst wenn man ein job hat wird einem alles wieder wegenommen und man kann sich blöd zahlen. auch solche sachen wie gez gebühr auf PCs ab 04.2005 regen mich maßlos auf, und darum spiel ich halt mit der idee abzuhauen.

Turkey shouldn't be in the EU because it is geographically in Asia.
It is.

[Turkey shouldn't be in the EU because its culture is not European.
Well, it isn't.

Turkey shouldn't be in the EU because then Turks will come to our country and swamp our culture.
They would.

I thought should have died in Germany after denazification. Doesn't it sound familiar to you German people?
Oh so everyone who doens't agree that Turkey should be an EU member is a Nazi, huh? And we're not allowed to be against it? Go away.

-"Nobody who speaks german can be evil!"
(Homer Simpson)
Well if we're quoting the simpsons...
"You destroyed Hitler's car, what did he ever do to you!"
(Nelson) :sniper:

Oh it's you two again.

It doesn't matter that the facts are true - I agree that geographically Turkey is mostly in Asia. This is a fact. I want to know why that is important. Turkish culture is not like German culture. So what?

You believe that your crime statistics prove that integration of foreigners is impossible. Why is it impossible in Germany but possible in the UK, France, USA, Spain etc?

ach alles. mehr türken als in istanbul, arbeitslosigkeit fast 20% und hat einen extrem schlechten ruf. und ich häng hier fest ohne job in diesem drecksloch. außerdem sieht selbst ein blinder das die spd deutschland unangespitzt in die scheisse reitet, und selbst wenn man ein job hat wird einem alles wieder wegenommen und man kann sich blöd zahlen. auch solche sachen wie gez gebühr auf PCs ab 04.2005 regen mich maßlos auf, und darum spiel ich halt mit der idee abzuhauen.
Ich dachte du bist jetzt gerade bei der arbeit? Brauchst deswegen ja nich gleich auszuwandern. Irgendwie bezweifle ich das die Union, oder sonnst eine partei, bessere ideeën hat, wenn sie überhaupt welche haben. Wär vielleicht nicht schlecht wenn DVU und NPD bei der nächsten wahl gemeinsam antreten und in etwa so abschneiden wie in Sachsen. Nicht das die etwa besser wären, höchstens schlimmer. Aber dann müssten die anderen politärsche mal endlich ihre scheissköppe zusammen stecken und mal über wirkliche lösungen nachdenken. Statt nur die interessen ihrer parteien und deren sponsoren zu verfolgen. Wenn ein Sachsen mäsiger sieg der DVU/NPD liste noch ausreicht um sie aus ihrem winterschlaf zu wecken schaft nichts es.

:sniper: Maybe its agincourt, maybe its just the fact that it took a man from cyprus for them to win a war, but i dislike the french more then the germans

See with the germans at least they hung around for a bit, made a go of it, were a decent opponent. The french...

Oh it's you two again.
Oh it's you again.

It doesn't matter that the facts are true
Nice... :rolleyes:
- I agree that geographically Turkey is mostly in Asia. This is a fact. I want to know why that is important. Turkish culture is not like German culture. So what?
Cause it's the European Union. Not the Global Union.

You believe that your crime statistics prove that integration of foreigners is impossible. Why is it impossible in Germany but possible in the UK, France, USA, Spain etc?
So your saying that there aren't minority groups in those countries who have disproportinate high crime rates in comparison to their percentage of the entire population? Like in the Netherlands. Where Antillians are 0,7% of the population yet are responsibal for 6% of all murders.

Ich dachte du bist jetzt gerade bei der arbeit? Brauchst deswegen ja nich gleich auszuwandern. Irgendwie bezweifle ich das die Union, oder sonnst eine partei, bessere ideeën hat, wenn sie überhaupt welche haben. Wär vielleicht nicht schlecht wenn DVU und NPD bei der nächsten wahl gemeinsam antreten und in etwa so abschneiden wie in Sachsen. Nicht das die etwa besser wären, höchstens schlimmer. Aber dann müssten die anderen politärsche mal endlich ihre scheissköppe zusammen stecken und mal über wirkliche lösungen nachdenken. Statt nur die interessen ihrer parteien und deren sponsoren zu verfolgen. Wenn ein Sachsen mäsiger sieg der DVU/NPD liste noch ausreicht um sie aus ihrem winterschlaf zu wecken schaft nichts es.

Werdet selber aktiv anstatt nur zu reden!

I've never had much to do with germans or germany and I always assumed that they were much like everyone else. Until the "Turkey in the EU" thread suddenly became full of germans (and a belgian as it happens) saying things like

Turkey shouldn't be in the EU because it is geographically in Asia.

Turkey shouldn't be in the EU because its culture is not European.

Turkey shouldn't be in the EU because then Turks will come to our country and swamp our culture.

I would expect this kind of opinion from a tiny minority of brits. But it seems very popular in Germany. The "they aren't like us, they don't speak our language, look at the way they make our streets look like their streets" I thought should have died in Germany after denazification. Doesn't it sound familiar to you German people?
didnt we have this discussion already? ;)
it doesnt have to do with nazis. not at all, just protecting what you have, and keep those out that will take it from you (willing or unwillingly). thought i have explained this to you already.
if america with its subculture, and "Chinatown" kind of livestyle is what you want its up to you, but you have to take the downside of it too, that is crime and murderstatistic like america and a loss of a general culture and values. if your willing to pay this price (which imho is an disgusting kind of thinking) your free to do that. just dont make such ridiculous remarks about people who want to protect what they have. :mp5:

So. And what great pains did we cause Australia over the past 100 years?

Only the nearly 200 000 Australian service men who died fighting against the Germans, not to mention the Ausrtalians who served with or were in other nations. Before dicrediting the number as small, rember Australia was a nation of less than 8 Million during both wars.

then better speak english again.

Köln is nice. have been to it very often, its not so far away you know. but ive never been to berlin. dunno, some say its a shithole and others say its great.
and your from england?
and you should avoid "heil" ... it has a rather uh dark underline (sp?) and you could get some strange looks here... better is "hoch" lebe deutschland und großbrittanien! (hoch = high or great in this connection)

Forgive my mistake with the "Heil". I hope it's understood that I meant no offence.

Berlin was a bit of a construction site, but I liked the city and the fact that the bulletholes made in the Battle of Berlin (1945) are still there as a reminder of that terrible time. If anyone does believe that the Germans are ignorant of that very small part of their past, then visit Berlin, see these bulletholes and then tell me that they are ignorant of their past. Berlin is great city, but I have to admit I preferred Cologne, just for the fact that it has a fantastic Cathedral. Also when visiting Alsace, I paid a visit across the border to Freiburg. That's another beautiful German town.

No wonder my girlfriend always laughs when I try and e-mail her in German. Her English is much better than my German. Hope I got the rest right though.

Werdet selber aktiv anstatt nur zu reden!
Joh. Wenn du mal eben ein pahr milliönchen für meinen wahlkampf übrig hast.

"Wanting to protect what you have" is how Nazi anti-semitism started. You remember "Lebensraum" ?

Other than that, if you think multiculturalism = more crime you are wrong. American crime is driven by many considerations. One of them is poverty.

The Germans would have had to put Jews into concentration camps regardless of whether they hated them or not, they would act against the Germans.

That's totally wrong. Jews fought for Germany in WW1, and probably would have in WW2, had the Nazis not taken power based on anti-Semitism. Most German Jews were very proud to be German. The only reason the Jews were fighting back in the ghettos and camps and with the partisans was BECAUSE of the persecution.

...the Germans didn't have enough food to feed the Jews. Who are you going to feed, your soldiers or the Jews? The hatred was probably created to justify what already had to be done.

Also completely wrong. Not even Hitler thought of killing off all the Jews. The "Final Solution" was proposed to him by an associate - I can't remember his name, was it Goebbels? - and he authorized it gladly. The hatred was not created to justify anything. It was already there. It was the foundation of the entire Nazi platform. Keep in mind that death camps and concentration camps were already in operation well before the war started. No need to feed soldiers right then, was there?

As to the whole idea of hating Germans, I don't. I hate the Nazis and everything they stand for, with good reason. You can't hate the entire populace of a nation just because of the actions of the government. Hell, I'm not too fond of my own government right now (I'm American), but does that mean I hate my next door neighbor? No.

My family is second-generation Italians, meaning my father and his brothers and sisters were born in America but their parents emigrated here from Italy in the 1950s. My grandfather was a soldier in the Italian Army during World War 2 and saw no action. He was stationed in Greece after it had been occupied (only because of Mussolini's stupidity, I might add). None of my family ever supported the Fascists, I might also add. But do you speak out and get shot? No. The bulk of the Italian Army at the time was loyal to Italy, not its dictator and the thugs he pushed around. This is the reason my grandfather joined, in addition to paying for college. So when Italy surrendered to the Allies and Mussolini was deposed, naturally the Nazis didn't want their former allies turning against them, so they went around to all the places Italian troops were stationed in territory the Nazis controlled and rounded them up. My grandfather escaped, but several of his friends and relatives also in the Italian Army were taken to concentration camps and never seen again. Go on and ask his sister if you don't believe me. My grandfather, who had gone to university and learned Greek, lived among the Greeks posing as a Greek and was still taken by the Nazis to work in a factory for them.

Wow, this is getting long. My family wasn't too fond of the Allies, however, also. The Allied carpet-bombing campaign in Italy leveled my grandmother's family's estate and killed my grandfather's mother. My grandmother lived for years in other peoples' houses and went out regularly to glean what she could from farm fields for dinner.

War is a terrible thing. As an American I am proud we entered the fight to rid the world of the Nazi evil, but I am not proud of the bombings of Pisa, Milan, Livorno, Dresden, Koln, etc. In war there is no immaculate side. As an American of Italian heritage I am proud of my grandfather for escaping the Nazis (barely) and not having to fight in Mussolini's half-assed aspect of the war. I am proud of my grandmother for coming away from all her hardships and struggles with no hatred for either side, only contempt for war and its atrocities.

As for World War 1, my grandmother's father was an Italian soldier in it, fighting against the Austrians and the Germans in the Alps. The Germans especially. And you know what they were doing when they weren't fighting each other? Passing chocolate bars and cigarettes to each other across no-man's-land. The trenches in the Alps were that close together. They didn't hate each other. They were simply doing what they were ordered to do out of loyalty to their country. And when the order was given to fire, my great-grandfather just waited for the point of a German's helmet to show and killed him, the very man he'd just lent a cigarette to a moment before. That is war.

Wow, my fingers hurt. Sorry for the ramble.

No!

That's totally wrong. Jews fought for Germany in WW1, and probably would have in WW2, had the Nazis not taken power based on anti-Semitism. Most German Jews were very proud to be German. The only reason the Jews were fighting back in the ghettos and camps and with the partisans was BECAUSE of the persecution.



Also completely wrong. Not even Hitler thought of killing off all the Jews. The "Final Solution" was proposed to him by an associate - I can't remember his name, was it Goebbels? - and he authorized it gladly. The hatred was not created to justify anything. It was already there. It was the foundation of the entire Nazi platform. Keep in mind that death camps and concentration camps were already in operation well before the war started. No need to feed soldiers right then, was there?

As to the whole idea of hating Germans, I don't. I hate the Nazis and everything they stand for, with good reason. You can't hate the entire populace of a nation just because of the actions of the government. Hell, I'm not too fond of my own government right now (I'm American), but does that mean I hate my next door neighbor? No.

My family is second-generation Italians, meaning my father and his brothers and sisters were born in America but their parents emigrated here from Italy in the 1950s. My grandfather was a soldier in the Italian Army during World War 2 and saw no action. He was stationed in Greece after it had been occupied (only because of Mussolini's stupidity, I might add). None of my family ever supported the Fascists, I might also add. But do you speak out and get shot? No. The bulk of the Italian Army at the time was loyal to Italy, not its dictator and the thugs he pushed around. This is the reason my grandfather joined, in addition to paying for college. So when Italy surrendered to the Allies and Mussolini was deposed, naturally the Nazis didn't want their former allies turning against them, so they went around to all the places Italian troops were stationed in territory the Nazis controlled and rounded them up. My grandfather escaped, but several of his friends and relatives also in the Italian Army were taken to concentration camps and never seen again. Go on and ask his sister if you don't believe me. My grandfather, who had gone to university and learned Greek, lived among the Greeks posing as a Greek and was still taken by the Nazis to work in a factory for them.

Wow, this is getting long. My family wasn't too fond of the Allies, however, also. The Allied carpet-bombing campaign in Italy leveled my grandmother's family's estate and killed my grandfather's mother. My grandmother lived for years in other peoples' houses and went out regularly to glean what she could from farm fields for dinner.

War is a terrible thing. As an American I am proud we entered the fight to rid the world of the Nazi evil, but I am not proud of the bombings of Pisa, Milan, Livorno, Dresden, Koln, etc. In war there is no immaculate side. As an American of Italian heritage I am proud of my grandfather for escaping the Nazis (barely) and not having to fight in Mussolini's half-assed aspect of the war. I am proud of my grandmother for coming away from all her hardships and struggles with no hatred for either side, only contempt for war and its atrocities.

As for World War 1, my grandmother's father was an Italian soldier in it, fighting against the Austrians and the Germans in the Alps. The Germans especially. And you know what they were doing when they weren't fighting each other? Passing chocolate bars and cigarettes to each other across no-man's-land. The trenches in the Alps were that close together. They didn't hate each other. They were simply doing what they were ordered to do out of loyalty to their country. And when the order was given to fire, my great-grandfather just waited for the point of a German's helmet to show and killed him, the very man he'd just lent a cigarette to a moment before. That is war.

Wow, my fingers hurt. Sorry for the ramble.

Ignorant idiots. Well done for correcting him before I did.

Ignorant idiots. Well done for correcting him before I did.

Hey, no problem. If it one thing that gets my hackles raised, its World War 2. I study it a lot. Call me a geek if you like. :D

I'd better shut up 'fore I ramble again.

Yes,I can blame you. Just because Germans killed your family members that does not mean that you should hate them ALL. Hate the ones that killed your family. Family members of mine have been killed in wars and I don't hate all Germans.

Hey, no problem. If it one thing that gets my hackles raised, its World War 2. I study it a lot. Call me a geek if you like. :D

I'd better shut up 'fore I ramble again.


I'm a history buff, although I prefer/am better qualified at Medieval to Early Modern History, WWI and WWII do come up. Nothing wrong with being a geek or a German. There is plenty wrong with being an ignorant, bigoted prick.

I've never met a citizen of Germany. So I can't say I dislike or like ALL Germans. But I like Rammstein. So, in effect, I like 100% of the Germans I am aware of.

Only the nearly 200 000 Australian service men who died fighting against the Germans, not to mention the Ausrtalians who served with or were in other nations. Before dicrediting the number as small, rember Australia was a nation of less than 8 Million during both wars.
200,000? Try some 60,000 in WW1 and 23,400 in WW2. Which isn't even 100,000. And it's not like Germany declared war on Australia. It was the other way around. So, if you declare war on a nation don't whine about the losses. And I believe Australia was also at war with Japan in WW2.

Joh. Wenn du mal eben ein pahr milliönchen für meinen wahlkampf übrig hast.
Kanns' ja auch mal selbst in eine Partei eintreten, anstatt nur auf sie zu schimpfen.

200,000? Try some 60,000 in WW1 and 23,400 in WW2. Which isn't even 100,000. And it's not like Germany declared war on Australia. It was the other way around. So, if you declare war on a nation don't whine about the losses. And I believe Australia was also at war with Japan in WW2.

Good point. Have you ever seen Blackadder Goes Forth or Fawlty Towers Jever Pilsner?

Actually, both wars provided boosts in technological development, and we probably wouldn't be as technologically advanced as we are today if it hadn't been for the world wars.

Ich dachte du bist jetzt gerade bei der arbeit? Brauchst deswegen ja nich gleich auszuwandern. Irgendwie bezweifle ich das die Union, oder sonnst eine partei, bessere ideeën hat, wenn sie überhaupt welche haben. Wär vielleicht nicht schlecht wenn DVU und NPD bei der nächsten wahl gemeinsam antreten und in etwa so abschneiden wie in Sachsen. Nicht das die etwa besser wären, höchstens schlimmer. Aber dann müssten die anderen politärsche mal endlich ihre scheissköppe zusammen stecken und mal über wirkliche lösungen nachdenken. Statt nur die interessen ihrer parteien und deren sponsoren zu verfolgen. Wenn ein Sachsen mäsiger sieg der DVU/NPD liste noch ausreicht um sie aus ihrem winterschlaf zu wecken schaft nichts es.
hehe mehr oder weniger. sagt dir abm was? arbeiten für noppes. geil sowas. stehn die bei der spd auch drauf, nennt sich 1 € jobs, und wurd früher mal sklavenarbeit genannt.
ich denke du bist da ein bischen auf dem holzweg, weil du davon ausgehst die wüßten nicht was das richtige wäre. bei einigen mag das der fall sein, aber ich denke in der politik wissen die schon genau das es ein desaster gibt bei zB Türkei. nur leider hat die industrie die in der hand. sind nur marionetten genau wie bush eine ist. ein wahlsieg für die rechten würde zwar viel jaulerei auslösen aber nichts ändern. irgendwie müßte man die industrie wieder unter die kontrolle der politik bekommen und nicht andersrum. wie das geht weiss ich nicht.
und von wegen interessen der parteien, die spd soll ja eine soziale partei sein, aber die kürzungen die hartz4 bringen sind alles andere als sozial, also vertreten die nichtmal die interessen ihrer eigenen partei. und auf der anderen seite war heute bei n24 ein bericht wieviel kohle die in afghanistan reinpumpen, was man viel besser für *unser* sozialsystem verwenden könnte, von der anderen geldverschwenderei garnicht zu reden. die menge an filz, klüngel und selbstbedienung die in der bürokratie abgeht, und die wir nur am rande mitbekommen, ist garantiert nur die spitze des eisbergs.

That's totally wrong. Jews fought for Germany in WW1, and probably would have in WW2, had the Nazis not taken power based on anti-Semitism.
Actually they did fight for Germany in WW2. Well not full Jews. But half and quarter Jews did. The Nazi's had some crazy system to determine wether one was German enough or not.

Kanns' ja auch mal selbst in eine Partei eintreten, anstatt nur auf sie zu schimpfen.
Gibt keine einzige Partei die genau das im Programm hat was das Volk will. Vielleicht die Linken links von der SPD oder die PDS, aber nicht die SPD, CDU oder FDP oder die Grünen. Denen geht's nur darum ihre Macht zu erhalten und möglichst demütigst ihrer Lobby zu dienen. Das ganze System ist völlig im Arsch und wenn ich schon sehe wie SPD-CDU jetzt in Brandenburg sogar ne Koalition machen, na vielen Dank. Koalitionen sollten allgemein verboten sein. Dämliche Idioten die sich nur darum scheren wie sie am besten eine Mehrheit bekommen um ihre asoziale Politik zu betreiben. Denen ist auch gar nichts zu schade. Na wenigstens hat die SPD nicht mit der DVU koaliert.

We fight for what we belive in. We were at war with Japan as well. Sorry if I exagerated a bit but does it make a difference. The pain caused by World War 2 is still felt (on both sides)

Cause it's the European Union. Not the Global Union.


So if we changed its name it would be ok for Turkey to join? Surely membership of the European Union makes you a defacto european, so if Turkey joined, it would suddenly be in Europe.


So your saying that there aren't minority groups in those countries who have disproportinate high crime rates in comparison to their percentage of the entire population? Like in the Netherlands. Where Antillians are 0,7% of the population yet are responsibal for 6% of all murders.

What are you comparing against? When you compare crime rates of ethnic minorities, are you taking into consideration the other things that predict crime rate, like educational and economic status?

If you have an ethnic minority population that you want to analyse for criminality, for more accurate results you should compare not with ethnic majority population in general but with a section of the ethnic majority population that has similar educational and economic status.

You are both still saying that you want to preserve what people of your culture have and prevent people of another culture from getting the same thing, because you think the only way they can do it is to take it away from you. If you don't want to call it racism, call it culturism.

I got these statistics from www.nationmaster.com (http://www.nationmaster.com ) and they seem to indicate that either all the criminals of Turkey already live in Germany or that German culture is decadent and violent, and Germany should import a lot of law-abiding Turks to clean the place up.

Drug offences:
Germany 297.3 per 100,000 people
Turkey 4.6per 100,000 people

Rape:
Germany 0.09 per 1000 people
Turkey 0.01 per 1000 people

Assault:
Germany 1.41 per 1000 people
Turkey 0.78 per 1000 people

Total Crime:
Germany 76.02 per 1000 people
Turkey 4.20 per 1000 people

Also note that you generally only hear the good things about the side who won and the bad about the others.
Australians for example were feared because they killed their prisoners.
And the turkish never really get thanked or remembered. They went through complete shit and had more losses than the entire allied force that landed in the dardenelles.
Britain was bombed horribly in London but at the end of the war they bombed dresden SO MUCH that all the fires took all the oxygen out of the air. What was so important strtegically about dresden? Absolutely nothing except it contained german CIVILIANS not soldiers CIVILIANS.
America got there return for Pearl Harbour with killed 5000 US sailors by fire bombing the wodden houses of Japan killing 300 000+ innocent civilians. They also had ordered the death of 3 MILLION civilians. Then of course there was the nuclear bomb which can be argued couldn't have been helped. If the other side won we'd all be tried for war crimes. :)

Big Mistake #1 happened because ALL european powers found the arms race so good. It was a question of time until one started to put them to use. If a member of the britisch Royal family would have been shot, what then ?

And Big Mistake #2 happened because some weaklings signed everything Hitler did until ´39. (Munich treaty et al) And because one real major power preferred an isolationst policy, staying at home, doing nothing abroard.

It needed Pearl Harbour and submarines in NewYork Harbour to wake them up.

There you have it.

Australians did not kill their prisoners, that was the Japanese. I have never heard that before anway.

just for the record I AM AUSTRALIAN and that proves my point. You only hear the side of the story from the side that won

hehe mehr oder weniger. sagt dir abm was? arbeiten für noppes. geil sowas. stehn die bei der spd auch drauf, nennt sich 1 € jobs, und wurd früher mal sklavenarbeit genannt.
Ja. Hab ich neulich in der glotze was drüber gesehn. Zum glück gibts sowas hier in den Niederlanden noch nich. Wird aber wohl nich mehr lange dauern bis die mit was ähnlichen kommen.
ich denke du bist da ein bischen auf dem holzweg, weil du davon ausgehst die wüßten nicht was das richtige wäre. bei einigen mag das der fall sein,
Ich glaub eher das ist bei der mehrheit von denen der fall. Die Union streitet sich ja jetzt auch mal wieder untereinander. Hab vergessen worüber. War was nit versicherungen oder so.
irgendwie müßte man die industrie wieder unter die kontrolle der politik bekommen und nicht andersrum. wie das geht weiss ich nicht.
Oder aber den standort Deutschland wieder attraktiv machen für die unternehmen. So wie sie es neuchlich gefordert haben. Steuern senken für unternehmen. Is zwar auch nich sehr sozial aber dann bleiben sie wenigsten daheim und gehn nich ins ausland.
und von wegen interessen der parteien, die spd soll ja eine soziale partei sein, aber die kürzungen die hartz4 bringen sind alles andere als sozial, also vertreten die nichtmal die interessen ihrer eigenen partei.
Naja, Schröder wird ja nich umsonst der Genosse der Bosse genannt.
und auf der anderen seite war heute bei n24 ein bericht wieviel kohle die in afghanistan reinpumpen, was man viel besser für *unser* sozialsystem verwenden könnte, von der anderen geldverschwenderei garnicht zu reden. die menge an filz, klüngel und selbstbedienung die in der bürokratie abgeht, und die wir nur am rande mitbekommen, ist garantiert nur die spitze des eisbergs.
Ja. Is schon irgendwie obzön wieviel geld da in die dritte welt gepumpt wird während daheim mal wieder ein neuer rekord in sachen neuverschuldung aufgestellt wird. Hab neulich auch in der Tagesschau gesehn das sie es irgendwie fertiggebracht haben an die 30 milliarden euro zu verschleudern für sachen wie party's und so.

Australians did not kill their prisoners, that was the Japanese. I have never heard that before anway.

Ever read Prisoners of the Japanese? Brutal.

I seem to remember a story about the Aussies robbing a bank after being freed from a POW camp. Got to love em.

"Wanting to protect what you have" is how Nazi anti-semitism started. You remember "Lebensraum" ?
lol. just lol. this is idiotic. maybe i should just ignore you.

So if we changed its name it would be ok for Turkey to join? Surely membership of the European Union makes you a defacto european, so if Turkey joined, it would suddenly be in Europe.



What are you comparing against? When you compare crime rates of ethnic minorities, are you taking into consideration the other things that predict crime rate, like educational and economic status?

If you have an ethnic minority population that you want to analyse for criminality, for more accurate results you should compare not with ethnic majority population in general but with a section of the ethnic majority population that has similar educational and economic status.

You are both still saying that you want to preserve what people of your culture have and prevent people of another culture from getting the same thing, because you think the only way they can do it is to take it away from you. If you don't want to call it racism, call it culturism.

I got these statistics from www.nationmaster.com (http://www.nationmaster.com ) and they seem to indicate that either all the criminals of Turkey already live in Germany or that German culture is decadent and violent, and Germany should import a lot of law-abiding Turks to clean the place up.

Drug offences:
Germany 297.3 per 100,000 people
Turkey 4.6per 100,000 people

Rape:
Germany 0.09 per 1000 people
Turkey 0.01 per 1000 people

Assault:
Germany 1.41 per 1000 people
Turkey 0.78 per 1000 people

Total Crime:
Germany 76.02 per 1000 people
Turkey 4.20 per 1000 people
You are talking about reported crime here. Could it be the Germans are more efficient at reprting and or detecting crime? Could it be that many cases of rape in Turkey are not reported or investigated? etc. Lies damnd lies and statisitics

Australians did not kill their prisoners, that was the Japanese. I have never heard that before anway.

The Japanese kept many of their prisoners alive. I find it difficult to believe that no Australian soldier ever murdered a POW.

lol. just lol. this is idiotic. maybe i should just ignore you.

How is it idiotic? Which of your arguments against Turks in Germany was not used by Hitler against Jews?

Ja. Hab ich neulich in der glotze was drüber gesehn. Zum glück gibts sowas hier in den Niederlanden noch nich. Wird aber wohl nich mehr lange dauern bis die mit was ähnlichen kommen.

Ich glaub eher das ist bei der mehrheit von denen der fall. Die Union streitet sich ja jetzt auch mal wieder untereinander. Hab vergessen worüber. War was nit versicherungen oder so.

Oder aber den standort Deutschland wieder attraktiv machen für die unternehmen. So wie sie es neuchlich gefordert haben. Steuern senken für unternehmen. Is zwar auch nich sehr sozial aber dann bleiben sie wenigsten daheim und gehn nich ins ausland.

Naja, Schröder wird ja nich umsonst der Genosse der Bosse genannt.

Ja. Is schon irgendwie obzön wieviel geld da in die dritte welt gepumpt wird während daheim mal wieder ein neuer rekord in sachen neuverschuldung aufgestellt wird. Hab neulich auch in der Tagesschau gesehn das sie es irgendwie fertiggebracht haben an die 30 milliarden euro zu verschleudern für sachen wie party's und so.
Haway lads/lasses some of us are ignorant English speakers with a poor languge education system (look I can't even spell) so we have no chance of understanding what you are saying.
If that is your point then you go some way to proving the biggots points for them.

You are talking about reported crime here. Could it be the Germans are more efficient at reprting and or detecting crime? Could it be that many cases of rape in Turkey are not reported or investigated? etc. Lies damnd lies and statisitics
It's fairly common for rape victims in Turkey to be killed by a relative to rectivy the shame she brough to her family. And murders like these are rarely seen as murder. And thus don't show up in the statistics.

We fight for what we belive in. We were at war with Japan as well. Sorry if I exagerated a bit but does it make a difference. The pain caused by World War 2 is still felt (on both sides)
you still feel involved in this?
i look back at what happened like in a history book. like you look back at the roman empire maybe. no big feelings involved. why do you feel so involved in it, it happened so long ago?

You are talking about reported crime here. Could it be the Germans are more efficient at reprting and or detecting crime? Could it be that many cases of rape in Turkey are not reported or investigated? etc. Lies damnd lies and statisitics

I believe that a greater proportion of crime is reported in Germany than in Turkey, but I don't believe that it is as high as for instance the difference between the drug offences statistics.

As to the relevance of statistics in general, I brought them out to counter the other posters' statistics, which I think makes them fair enough.

Haway lads/lasses some of us are ignorant English speakers with a poor languge education system (look I can't even spell) so we have no chance of understanding what you are saying.
If that is your point then you go some way to proving the biggots points for them.
Naah. It was just a quik privy conversation between the 2 of us.

I find it difficult to believe that no Australian soldier ever murdered a POW.
Easier than keeping them with you and having to feed and look after them right?

It's fairly common for rape victims in Turkey to be killed by a relative to rectivy the shame she brough to her family. And murders like these are rarely seen as murder. And thus don't show up in the statistics.

How common? Do you have any evidence for this assertion, or is it simply a belief based not on evidence but on the ethnicity of the people involved?

I know how you dislike calling a belief not based on evidence a "prejudice", and I recall that you don't want to refer to a belief based on ethnicity as a "racial" belief, so I won't point out that such a thing would be a "racial" "prejudice".

Easier than keeping them with you and having to feed and look after them right?

I assume that soldiers from all armies do this at least occasionally.

We fight for what we belive in.
Thats your problem. If you want to fight for what you believe, whatever that may have been in the cases of both wars, thats fine. But don't complain when your soldiers die once you send them to war.

Naah. It was just a quik privy conversation between the 2 of us.
mutters in a Homer Simpson way'Bloody multi lingual swats'mutters some more 'liguiste, linquists bah! drinks more coffee

So if we changed its name it would be ok for Turkey to join? Surely membership of the European Union makes you a defacto european, so if Turkey joined, it would suddenly be in Europe.



What are you comparing against? When you compare crime rates of ethnic minorities, are you taking into consideration the other things that predict crime rate, like educational and economic status?

If you have an ethnic minority population that you want to analyse for criminality, for more accurate results you should compare not with ethnic majority population in general but with a section of the ethnic majority population that has similar educational and economic status.

You are both still saying that you want to preserve what people of your culture have and prevent people of another culture from getting the same thing, because you think the only way they can do it is to take it away from you. If you don't want to call it racism, call it culturism.

I got these statistics from www.nationmaster.com (http://www.nationmaster.com ) and they seem to indicate that either all the criminals of Turkey already live in Germany or that German culture is decadent and violent, and Germany should import a lot of law-abiding Turks to clean the place up.

Drug offences:
Germany 297.3 per 100,000 people
Turkey 4.6per 100,000 people

Rape:
Germany 0.09 per 1000 people
Turkey 0.01 per 1000 people

Assault:
Germany 1.41 per 1000 people
Turkey 0.78 per 1000 people

Total Crime:
Germany 76.02 per 1000 people
Turkey 4.20 per 1000 people
Actually, it does not matter what crime rates in Turkey are like. Turks in Turkey are at home in their society, in their age structures, in their religion, cities, villages, they can live with their customs. Turks in Germany make the majority of non-German murderers, rapists and drug dealers.

http://www.bka.de/pks/pks2003/p_3_17.pdf
In 2003, 2.355.161 crimes happened in Germany. Of this number, 553.750 (23.5 %) were from non-Germans.

Turks make almost 30% of the non-German criminals in drug crime. The total number of drug crimes in Germany in 2003 was 212.491.

Of this number 42.417 were from non-Germans (around 20%).
Of this number 26.158 were from Turks.

In 2003 2541 murders/killings happened. Of this number 904 were comitted by non-Germans (35.5 %)

Of the 553.750 total crimes comitted by non-Germans, Turks comitted 118.488 (21.4%), the next group of non-German criminals being Serbs with 46.951 (8.5%).

http://www.bka.de/pks/pks2003/p_2_3_3.pdf


Turks make a total of 25% of non-German crime, not counting illegal immigration.

I like them when they STAY IN THEIR OWN COUNTRY and not go BUY THEIR WEED OVER HERE! :mad:

i agree with the panda :D undefined

How common? Do you have any evidence for this assertion, or is it simply a belief based not on evidence but on the ethnicity of the people involved?

I know how you dislike calling a belief not based on evidence a "prejudice", and I recall that you don't want to refer to a belief based on ethnicity as a "racial" belief, so I won't point out that such a thing would be a "racial" "prejudice".
http://www.eubusiness.com/forums/igc/msg_1087543434/view

http://www.bianet.org/2003/09/22_eng/news21434.htm

http://www.electricvenom.com/index.php?p=6308

http://www.library.cornell.edu/colldev/mideast/dilberk.htm
The United Nations reported that as many as 5,000 women and girls worldwide were killed last year by family members, "many of them for the 'dishonor' of having been raped."
And so on, and so on.

I like them when they STAY IN THEIR OWN COUNTRY and not go BUY THEIR WEED OVER HERE! :mad:
thats my talking! nothing wrong with turks in turkey. nice guys, really. but they should stay where they are. or in case of those that are already here, they should go where they should be: Turkey.

whats that to do with nationalsocialism is up to weird minds like Independent Homestead to tell :confused: :rolleyes:

Well I got np with those that are already here. It's too late to send them back, but we do not need more.

http://www.eubusiness.com/forums/igc/msg_1087543434/view

http://www.bianet.org/2003/09/22_eng/news21434.htm

http://www.electricvenom.com/index.php?p=6308

http://www.library.cornell.edu/colldev/mideast/dilberk.htm
The United Nations reported that as many as 5,000 women and girls worldwide were killed last year by family members, "many of them for the 'dishonor' of having been raped."
And so on, and so on.


...each year dozens of girls are killed in Turkey ...


Dozens in a year? Lets make it a dozen dozen, 144? Is that fair? in which case, assuming every unreported rape victim was murdered, the rape statistics would be

1. Germany 7,499
2. Turkey 1,260 + 144 = 1404

Which means that per capita, Germany still has about 8 times as many rapes.

Unfortunately murder stats for Turkey aren't available on that site. I'd like to compare those with the added honour killing.

thats my talking! nothing wrong with turks in turkey. nice guys, really. but they should stay where they are. or in case of those that are already here, they should go where they should be: Turkey.

whats that to do with nationalsocialism is up to weird minds like Independent Homestead to tell :confused: :rolleyes:

He was
a) talking about Germans
b) joking

National Socialism was founded on a number of principals. One of those principals was the exclusion of people of non-Germanic culture from German society. You seek to exclude Turks from German society because they have a non-Germanic culture. To me, those ideas look the same.

@ Planta Genesta

Sorry if I came across as arrogant because of the "heil" thing. Forgiven and forgotten.

@ Turkey in the EU

I'm against it, for two reasons:

1) Turkey is not a European nation (despite the region around Edirne)
2) Turkey still has huge problems with human rights. (penal system, the Kurds.)

If they sort out point 2, I might change my attitude, although I see huge economic problems.

Turks and Germans have lived in Germany, door by door, side by side, peacefully and in good neighbourhood, for 40 years now. There are criminals, but I think it's the law-abiding and hard-working Turks in Germany who suffer most from a small portion of their fellow countrymen going wild and giving all Turks a bad name. I don't believe at all that millions of Turks would enter Germany if Turkey became a member of the EU.

Jever, ben je Nederlander?

Dozens in a year? Lets make it a dozen dozen, 144? Is that fair? in which case, assuming every unreported rape victim was murdered, the rape statistics would be

1. Germany 7,499
2. Turkey 1,260 + 144 = 1404

Which means that per capita, Germany still has about 8 times as many rapes.

:confused: What? How did you get to those weird numbers? Thumb? Cause last time I checked honor killings weren't part of German culture. As opposed to the Turkish Islamic culture.

I don't believe at all that millions of Turks would enter Germany if Turkey became a member of the EU.
Oh yes. They would. Or at least try. Hundreds of thousands bang on the doors of the western embassies to get a visa each year. And most of them have Germany as their destination. And they aren't tourists who want to go on vacation.

Jever, ben je Nederlander?
Duitser die al ruim 20 jaartjes in Hollandia woont.

[QUOTE=Jever Pilsener]Oh yes. They would. Or at least try. Hundreds of thousands bang on the doors of the western embassies to get a visa each year. And most of them have Germany as their destination. And they aren't tourists who want to go on vacation.

[QUOTE]

It's not impossible, after all.

Another problem with Turkish EU membership would be geographical. Do we really want the EU to border Iraq, Iran, Syria, and the Caucasian states, thus having those problems next door?

Not like the Americans have proven able to deal with it. I doubt we Europeans could.

The German numbers for Rape/Sexual Oppression of 2003 are as follows:

Total: 54.632
Of that number:
Rape: 8766
Minor Sexual Offenses: 6595
Sexual Abuse with Abuse of a position of power: 1827
Sexual Abuse of Children: 15430
Exhibitions/Indecent Exposure: 9150
Ownership/Dealing with Childpornography: 2868
Human Smuggling: 850

Only the nearly 200 000 Australian service men who died fighting against the Germans, not to mention the Ausrtalians who served with or were in other nations. Before dicrediting the number as small, rember Australia was a nation of less than 8 Million during both wars.

When you send people into war they tend to die depending on the strength of the resistance they met. In this case it seemed to be deadly, so what's your point ? Too much dead i.e. an indirect compliment to the German defenses ? Or are you implying that defending against enemy soldiers is an unforgivable atrocity as well ? I tell you that: There is a significant difference between sent into death camp and the death on the battlefield. Granted the Germans started it but it's not that the soldier on the other end had much choice, so he did his job and tried to do it as best as he can. I don't think lazy German soldiers should be honoured for them overlooking enemy fire.

It's not impossible, after all.

Another problem with Turkish EU membership would be geographical. Do we really want the EU to border Iraq, Iran, Syria, and the Caucasian states, thus having those problems next door?

Plus then there would be a few thousand miles of border through which illegal immigrants and shit loads of drugs and other nice stuff can be smuggled. Since bordercontrols in the EU almost doesn't exist.

Plus then there would be a few thousand miles of border through which illegal immigrants and shit loads of drugs and other nice stuff can be smuggled. Since bordercontrols in the EU almost doesn't exist.

Very valid point.

After all, the Club is called "European Union". 'Nuff said.

See, what the EU is becoming a big-state tax-eating moloch holding a tight grip on all individuals in the EU, ignoring their concerns, guess why they don't like the idea of referendums much. Whether you are against the membership of Turkey or not, it's not within your grasp to demand otherwise, citizen !

:confused: What? How did you get to those weird numbers? Thumb? Cause last time I checked honor killings weren't part of German culture. As opposed to the Turkish Islamic culture.

As it said in the post with the numbers, which I assumed you could read, the numbers are the total rapes reported in the year 2000. You told me that the reason there were fewer rapes reported in Turkey was because the rape victims were killed. You provided references to support your claim. Your references said that the number of honour killings in Turkey each year was "dozens".

I myself extrapolated "dozens" to 144, or a dozen dozens.

If there are 144 honour killings per year (which is an assumption on my part, based on your sources), and all the honour killing victims are rape victims, we can add 144 to the total rapes reported to get a better total. Which still shows about 8 times more rapes per capita in Germany than in Turkey.

My source, as ever, is www.nationmaster.com (http://www.nationmaster.com)

See, what the EU is becoming a big-state tax-eating moloch holding a tight grip on all individuals in the EU, ignoring their concerns, guess why they don't like the idea of referendums much. Whether you are against the membership of Turkey or not, it's not within your grasp to demand otherwise, citizen !
The French are gonna have a referendum about it. And the Dutch are thinking about having one. It's just Schröder who's hiding behind the constitution saying referendums are illegal under it so he can go on ignoring the people. At least he didn't go as far as that idiot Kohl who, back in the 1990's, said referendums are undemocratic.

As it said in the post with the numbers, which I assumed you could read, the numbers are the total rapes reported in the year 2000. You told me that the reason there were fewer rapes reported in Turkey was because the rape victims were killed. You provided references to support your claim. Your references said that the number of honour killings in Turkey each year was "dozens".

I myself extrapolated "dozens" to 144, or a dozen dozens.

If there are 144 honour killings per year (which is an assumption on my part, based on your sources), and all the honour killing victims are rape victims, we can add 144 to the total rapes reported to get a better total. Which still shows about 8 times more rapes per capita in Germany than in Turkey.

My source, as ever, is www.nationmaster.com (http://www.nationmaster.com)

The explanation could be like this...

In Europe, rape means 2-3 years in prison, in the worst case.
In Turkey, it means the whole clan will be after you for vendetta.

There are no statistics about what is going on in the East Anatolian villages.

(Before someone gets me wrong, I condemn all forms of sexual violence.)

Plus then there would be a few thousand miles of border through which illegal immigrants and shit loads of drugs and other nice stuff can be smuggled. Since bordercontrols in the EU almost doesn't exist.

Border controls within the EU are at the discretion of the member country. The UK has border controls because it wants them. I don't imagine for a second that Greece would give up border controls with Turkey just because Turkey joined the EU.

The borders between Turkey and and its Eastern neighbours would still be policed the same, if not more rigourously because other EU countries would supply extra border police. The borders between Turkey and Greece and (I think) Bulgaria total about 300 miles, not very long.

Dozens in a year? Lets make it a dozen dozen, 144? Is that fair? in which case, assuming every unreported rape victim was murdered, the rape statistics would be

1. Germany 7,499
2. Turkey 1,260 + 144 = 1404

Which means that per capita, Germany still has about 8 times as many rapes.

Unfortunately murder stats for Turkey aren't available on that site. I'd like to compare those with the added honour killing.
Note:

Total recorded rapes. Crime statistics are often better indicators of prevalence of law enforcement and willingness to report crime, than actual prevalence.

Plus the drugs/illegal immigrants have to get into the EU in the first place (immigrants from within the EU aren't illegal), so if you only consider the perimeter of the EU as our border, the total border is actually much shorter than it used to be (ie all the countries' borders combined).

By your logic I should hate everyone from Germany, Japan, England, Spain, Italy, Poland and The United States of America. At some point each of these countries has been involved in a war that has had caused the death of my poeple (The Cree a Native American Nation). It is stupid to hate people for their nations history. I have three good friends that were born in Germany and there are wonderful people, they haven't started wars or killed anyone. Are you saying that you would hate them for where they were born?

And still we have to see another side of the medal: turkey is already an european country. If you look at religion and islamic traditions(penal system) turkey looks noneuropean at first glance.

But:

Many turkish families already have relatives in a european union country.
Turkey is an important trade partner for europe.
Turkey is an important touristic destination for european countries.
Compared to other islamic countries, turkey offers the biggest social freedom in general.
The region of Turkey has always been an actor in european history for almost 2000 years.

After all, talking about letting turkey be part of the european union is not really against all logic. its just a extreme example of where europe can be found. Lets leave this discussion away from this thread ;)

And yes - i am german... but that does not mean that i like them generally.

I like my friends and a few persons i have met so far in my life personally. I hate some persons i have met so far in my life. Strangely most person i have met in my life are germans.

But i can't hate a country or a whole people...

As it said in the post with the numbers, which I assumed you could read, the numbers are the total rapes reported in the year 2000. You told me that the reason there were fewer rapes reported in Turkey was because the rape victims were killed. You provided references to support your claim. Your references said that the number of honour killings in Turkey each year was "dozens".

I myself extrapolated "dozens" to 144, or a dozen dozens.

If there are 144 honour killings per year (which is an assumption on my part, based on your sources), and all the honour killing victims are rape victims, we can add 144 to the total rapes reported to get a better total. Which still shows about 8 times more rapes per capita in Germany than in Turkey.

My source, as ever, is www.nationmaster.com (http://www.nationmaster.com)
Eeeh no. I said it is fairly common. But not all attempted honor killings succeed. And sometimes the judgement by the family council is taken in the absence of the shame bringer. And they aren't dumb enough to go home. And rapes often aren't reported and kept secret so daddy doesn't find out. And before you demand sources for that again try and use your head for a change. How would you handle a rape when you know what will/can happen if you told your dad that your uncle/cousin/neighbour etc...got funky with you against your will. Knowing that the mind set of Turkish policemen doesn't differ that much from the set of your male relatives. Like when last year, or was it this year, in Turkey a man stabbed his wive who wanted to leave him a couple of dozen times in the street. With the police standing by keeping the crowd at bay. So there is no way to determine the actual rape numbers.

I like Germans, but I hate their beer! Too strong! Heineken? Blecchhh!

The French are gonna have a referendum about it. And the Dutch are thinking about having one. It's just Schröder who's hiding behind the constitution saying referendums are illegal under it so he can go on ignoring the people. At least he didn't go as far as that idiot Kohl who, back in the 1990's, said referendums are undemocratic.

Yes, and they still grab out their favourite argument against a referendum: left/right-wing populism ! As if that would really change the people's opinion much, you don't need to be left/right-wing ideologized to be against something. The truth is they fear a negative outcome, the inevitable, that smaller membership states might follow that example and that there could be discord within the EU ! lol

Eeeh no. I said it is fairly common.


I don't think that "dozens" out of 68 million people is common. I would say that means it is "rare". More common than in Germany, but still not common.


But not all attempted honor killings succeed. And sometimes the judgement by the family council is taken in the absence of the shame bringer. And they aren't dumb enough to go home. And rapes often aren't reported and kept secret so daddy doesn't find out. And before you demand sources for that again try and use your head for a change. How would you handle a rape when you know what will/can happen if you told your dad that your uncle/cousin/neighbour etc...got funky with you against your will. Knowing that the mind set of Turkish policemen doesn't differ that much from the set of your male relatives. Like when last year, or was it this year, in Turkey a man stabbed his wive who wanted to leave him a couple of dozen times in the street. With the police standing by keeping the crowd at bay. So there is no way to determine the actual rape numbers.

If you *can't* know, then you *don't* know. If the only evidence you have is that it wouldn't make sense to report a rape if it was going to reflect badly on you, then all you have is your supposition. I agree with you that rape reporting will probably be less in Turkey than in Germany. So if you want to leave it at that, lets leave it at that. I'd love to see the murder statistics for Turkey.

There is one very effective way to decrease the number of these killings. Allow Turkey to enter the EU. It will only be allowed to do this if it becomes serious in preventing these killings.

Technically it was the Austro-Hungarian Empire that started the First World War, Germany was just allied with them....
Oh, and the Second World war was started by an Austrian who happened to get control of Germany.
So, if you want to get down to basics, you should blame the Austrians and the Hungarians. Or, just blame everyone that isn't you!

Another one who does not know the details...

Just imagine the following: Mr. X. the next to be president of the united states is shot dead in Iraq at the election campaign. It is clear that he will be the next president. Isn't it a minimal ultimatum to let american investigators roll up the assasination?

But let's leave the fields of imagination and see what kind of details history has:

We also can say that we were all right for almost 1000 years, steady borders, and then came WW1. We have lost 2/3 of our territories and half of the population. This was the outcome for Hungary. Of course we finally got rid of the Habsburgs, against whom we fought several wars of independence. But what a price was that to get rid of them.
Since the existence of the Austro-Hungarian Monarchy the foreign affairs, the ministry of war and the to these ministries related fiscal ministry was strictly in Austrian hands. They didn't trust us. We were too rebellious against their leadership. This seeed to interest noone when the peace treaties were signed after WW.I.

In WW.II. when Hitler tried to cotrol Hungary as a henchman-country, Hungary's governor countered by saying to him that Hungary has a history of 1000 years, his newly founded nationalsocialist state does not dictate to us. After this he only had biddings to Hungary, but when he needed the country realy badly, Hitler kidnapped the governor's son and sent a special veteran unit to take control of the country (Otto Skorzeny was the leader of this unit, a speaking name to those who know military history...).

Only after that could Hitler install a rightist radical leader to the country.

That of Hungary

Not even these serve as a legalization to a common hate against german or austrian people.

Henrik from Hungary

There is one very effective way to decrease the number of these killings. Allow Turkey to enter the EU. It will only be allowed to do this if it becomes serious in preventing these killings.
Oh. But you *do* know that don't you? Like you *know* that without an EU membership Turkey will turn fundamentalist. And an EU membership is a *guarantee* that they will never ever become that. (sorry if thats not your opinion but it's an argument thats always used as justification by the Turkey supporters)

We also can say that we were all right for almost 1000 years, steady borders, and then came WW1.
Not realy. Large parts of Hungary where in the hands of the Turks for a bit.

Oh. But you *do* know that don't you? Like you *know* that without an EU membership Turkey will turn fundamentalist. And an EU membership is a *guarantee* that they will never ever become that. (sorry if thats not your opinion but it's an argument thats always used as justification by the Turkey supporters)

I'm not an expert on Turkish politics, but I don't believe that Turkey will become a fundamentalist state with or without EU membership. I think it is less likely to become fundamentalist from within the EU because the EU will have much more influence. Religious fundamentalism is, on the whole, a symptom of poverty and disadvantage. Within the EU, Turks would become better off.

Plus the drugs/illegal immigrants have to get into the EU in the first place (immigrants from within the EU aren't illegal), so if you only consider the perimeter of the EU as our border, the total border is actually much shorter than it used to be (ie all the countries' borders combined).

Actually if Turkey became part of the EU, the border of the EU would become much longer.

Actually if Turkey became part of the EU, the border of the EU would become much longer.

And far more dangerous.

I like Germans, but I hate their beer! Too strong! Heineken? Blecchhh!

German beer is the finest in the world.

Lets leave this discussion away from this thread ;)


Lots of Germans seem to be obsessed with it...

I'm not an expert on Turkish politics, but I don't believe that Turkey will become a fundamentalist state with or without EU membership. I think it is less likely to become fundamentalist from within the EU because the EU will have much more influence. Religious fundamentalism is, on the whole, a symptom of poverty and disadvantage. Within the EU, Turks would become better off.


Smells of blackmail, sorry.

"If you don't accept Turkey into the EU, they'll all become fundamentalist, and it's all your fault!!"

And far more dangerous.

Not necessarily more dangerous. The Turkish borders would very likely be patrolled by other EU countries. The UK already has border police in lots of countries.

German beer is the finest in the world.

The Dorstfeld beer award goes to the Czech Republic.

Smells of blackmail, sorry.

"If you don't accept Turkey into the EU, they'll all become fundamentalist, and it's all your fault!!"

But i didn't say this, because I don't think it. I believe that if Turkey does not get into the EU, it still won't become fundamentalist, because the people of Turkey don't want to live in a fundamentalist state.

I did say I think it is less likely.

Not necessarily more dangerous. The Turkish borders would very likely be patrolled by other EU countries. The UK already has border police in lots of countries.

Yes far more dangerous. The eastern Turkish border is in Kurdish territory and mainly thinly populated mountains. It will be almost impossible to control, and Turkey doesn't fully control these regions as we're speaking.

@ "blackmail"

I didn't say it was your argument, but it's often heard by Turkey membership supporters.

Not realy. Large parts of Hungary where in the hands of the Turks for a bit.

The turkish sultan has called the king of Hungary as his brother in his letters and asked permission to lead his armies through hungarian territory against Vienna. By that time the Habsburgs didn't rule Hungary. We didn't let them. Turkish consider themself related to hungarian people even today.

Later when the Habsburgs gained the Hungarian throne (through marriage as usually they gained countries), the Ottoman Empire, that was a world-power by that time, forced his way through Hungary to the Habsburg provinces. Hungary was split up to three parts for 150 years. One was ruled by a Habsburg king, one was ruled by a hungarian prince and fought against the Habsburgs, allied with the Ottoman empire, to regain the throne to the Hungarians. (the third was in Turksih hands.)

So the habsburg's ruled one part, there was a hungarian throne-demander ruling the second part, and the third was in a civil polity form an intact hungary (the hungarian feudal lords went over the border and collected their rightful taxes in all three parts!), but the turkish military polity was in power.

Right, i know you lot are going to call me 'racist' and all that, but can you really blame me? In the first world war, i lost 1 great grandad and seven great uncles, and then in the second world war i lost both my grandads. All thanks to the germans. So if you lot hadn't gone and started BOTH wars, chances are, the world would be a much better and bigger place. Im just letting my point across. 'freedom of speech' and all that.'
and if your wondering about my name, im taking the pish.

I'm sorry for your loss, but that gives you no right to take out your anger on the entirety of the German people. I am of German descent, though my family left during the 1850s, so we had no part in the wars other than fighting in the US military. I am sickened that you feel you can hate all Germans for the loss of your relatives and the start of the World Wars. Yes, you are a racist.

Blaming both wars on Germans alone makes you no better than when Hitler blamed the loss of WW1 on the Jews.

You're against the Gemmans, so you go and make your NS nation about Germans. You, my friend, need help.

Just a factoid...Both Bushes are of German descent.


....Die Schande....!!! :D:D

As the original post of liking Germans seems to be inextricably linked to the slaughter of thousands of innocents it is worth remembering that in the 5 years after WW2, somewhere in the region of 10 million Germans died of starvation and disease. A great many these died in camps died in camps run by the Russians and to a lesser extent the Americans. I doubt there is a nation whose hands are blood free.
For the record I do a lot of of business in Germany (I'm in Stuttgart right now) and it's a great place. I suspect that most of the small minded twats who post their bigotry have never visited. The people are warm and welcoming, have the ability to laugh at themselves (despite the stereotype of being humourless) and have a culture based around good food and drink, as my increasing waste line will testify too. I heartily reccommend a night on the Weiss Beer washed down with liberal dosings of Schnapps.

German beer is the finest in the world.
Austrian beer is also very good, of course Austrians are a sort of German although they get upset when you call them Germans.

The Dorstfeld beer award goes to the Czech Republic.

The Czech's come an admirable second.
However my wife is American. On our trips back to her stomping Ground (NY) I am constantly amazed at the excuse for fizzy piss that is served up there.

German beer is the finest in the world.

I think Czech beer is like Staropramen and Budovar.

Beer is subjective, after all.

I'd say Pilsner Urquell is #1. Then come Germany and Belgium.

US beer is like making love in a canoe.

Just a factoid...Both Bushes are of German descent.
....Die Schande....!!! :D:D
and now you know why we threw them out! :D

They are? Unpossibel!!

Peinlich, aber wahr.
Embarrassing, but true.

Considering a bunch of my relitives are german and i'm a qaurter german, yes, i do. Both my grandparents fought against the Nazis in WWII, but i still love the country. Good people, good place.

The war is over,and I refuse to make broad generalizations about a whole nation of people.I have no problems with the German people,and I'm an Englishman!

No nation has clean hands :( .All nations have comitted crimes in the name of nation,race,religion,and greed :mad: .

The war is over,and I refuse to make broad generalizations about a whole nation of people.I have no problems with the German people,and I'm an Englishman!

No nation has clean hands :( .All nations have comitted crimes in the name of nation,race,religion,and greed :mad: .

And some more than others, Englishman...

The best beers i know is a czech beer which was available in my local disco for a while in first place and highlander (brewed using whiskey malt) in second place..

But scotch whiskey is much better than any beer...

And some more than others, Englishman...

Turkey in Armenia 1915?

We better stop right here.

Is there a Highscore List somewhere that lists all nations and their "Suffering Distribution Points"?

Is there a Highscore List somewhere that lists all nations and their "Suffering Distribution Points"?

For Heaven's sake, let's not get into a "who did what and is worst" debate.

and i doubt your a german. your a american, and try to proove some point arent you?[/QUOTE]

Wrong, im British :)

and i doubt your a german. your a american, and try to proove some point arent you?

Wrong, im British :)[/QUOTE]


And I doubt you have ever left your island. Magalluf doesn't count.

And some more than others, Englishman...

Nice phrasing, what's the measurement for 'blood on your hands' ? BOYH ? So I guess Germany has estimatedly 1.2 TeraBOYH while others have much less ?

Nice phrasing, what's the measurement for 'blood on your hands' ? BOYH ? So I guess Germany has estimatedly 1.2 TeraBOYH while others have much less ?


Klasse!
Excellent!

Wrong, im British :)


And I doubt you have ever left your island. Magalluf doesn't count.[/QUOTE

Erm, if you must know, kinda wierd thing to say when you dont even know me:
USA
France
Spain
Iceland
Belgium
Greece
Japan
Australia
Canada
and Mexico

I don't think they are in Britian? Not sure...

Well, loosing relatives during a war isn't nice, using that hate 'logic' I should hate Russians very much. Yet I don't, now guess why...and no it's not because of the victor-looser-relation. I should hate even my own people considering that a part in my family fought on Russian side as part of their army.

Well, you can't reallt blame Germany for WWII either. however horrible the war was, the treaty of Versailles sort of forced them. Hitler just manipulated the minds of the already unhappy and pover, workless people.

I get what you're all saying and allow me to put my point in as well. Quite frankly I don't care what you think of my oppinion but here it is anyway -
Hitler did have some good idea's, some incredibly wrong, others not so, he just went about them wrongly.
I don't beleive he was a brilliant man or any of it, he was a failiure, he got caught for a start and didn't make sure he had enough power for a second.
The mass murder of the jews was morally wrong granted, but can't you people see where he was coming from?
Here in Britain, ship loads of sponging immigrants are washing up on our shores - Ok, their country is bad yes - but they take the jobs our poeople struggle to get. Our nation's people are dying in gutters, old men that fought wars for our country who should be allowed homes, food and so forth, the luxuries we take for granted, instead they lie in the gutters dying and homeless. I see immigrants driving in shiny new cars, entering enormous houses and going to brilliant jobs with benefits, and what have they done to deserve any of it!?
Our people are shunned and ignored while poor imigrants are treated as royalty. I know what you're all thinking by now, no I am not a racist, I just think our government should put our people first!
Anyone who agree's with me or has similar views,
Send me a telegram.
Nightsrose
"Our people should NOT be ignored!"

Anyway, who used gas first - Germans
who invaded Belgium, France etc - Germans
who killed millions of Jews - Germans
who could of saved millions of innocent lives - Germans

actually i like them and

who used gas first - both sides had it but failed to see the battle advantages

who invaded belgium first - belgium was nuetrall , the germans moved through belgium. then belgium got caught up in the battles there

who killed millions of jews - the nazis not the germans

who could have saved the lives of them - anybody , but we kept quiet

I don't hate the Germans, Im just pissed off with them tbh! I just can't not hold a grudge against them. I feel sorry for the modern generation of Germans, who will be always remembered for their past, but Lotringen, you said 'who told me about the civil war stuff anyway?', Im taking a history degree and focusing on the first world war at Craiglockhart Napier University :)

And I doubt you have ever left your island. Magalluf doesn't count.[/QUOTE

Erm, if you must know, kinda wierd thing to say when you dont even know me:
USA
France
Spain
Iceland
Belgium
Greece
Japan
Australia
Canada
and Mexico

I don't think they are in Britian? Not sure...


Travelled so far and yet so insular.

actually i like them and

who used gas first - both sides had it but failed to see the battle advantages

who invaded belgium first - belgium was nuetrall , the germans moved through belgium. then belgium got caught up in the battles there

who killed millions of jews - the nazis not the germans

who could have saved the lives of them - anybody , but we kept quiet

yeah, but the towns people close to the concentration camps just pretended they had know idea what it was, when they even had evidence to say they did, and they all admitted it later anyway, so the answer to the last two were correct.

Difficult to tell. I haven't met them all yet.

Right, i know you lot are going to call me 'racist' and all that, but can you really blame me? In the first world war, i lost 1 great grandad and seven great uncles, and then in the second world war i lost both my grandads. All thanks to the germans. So if you lot hadn't gone and started BOTH wars, chances are, the world would be a much better and bigger place. Im just letting my point across. 'freedom of speech' and all that.'
and if your wondering about my name, im taking the pish.

you moron, you are blaming both world wars soley on the germans.. learn you history mate you obviously know nothing.. how about no britian or america? NO PROBEM! no germany? NO PROBLEM

i lost just as many reletives fighting against the germans in both world wars aswell!!!! thats why i'm the last of my line to carry my maiden name..

you sir are a true ignorant rascsit to be frank,

yeah, but the towns people close to the concentration camps just pretended they had know idea what it was, when they even had evidence to say they did, and they all admitted it later anyway, so the answer to the last two were correct.

When your choice is Shut up or Go in.

Verdammt, watt streit' ich mich mit dem Pappkopp. Schluß, aus.

Apart from in football (soccer if you'd prefer), i like the germans. It was the Nazis who were to blame, not the modern day German person. so yeh, less of the German hating!

you moron, you are blaming both world wars soley on the germans.. learn you history mate you obviously know nothing.. how about no britian or america? NO PROBEM! no germany? NO PROBLEM

you sir are a true ignorant rascsit to be frank,

lmao! this made me laugh!
anyway, read my post up the page a bit, 'You true ignorant dumbass'

lmao! this made me laugh!
anyway, read my post up the page a bit, 'You true ignorant dumbass'

lol alright, but i didnt feel like reading 14 pages of posts..

BUT you should make yourself CLEAR otherwise this could be avoided "dumbass"

Right, i know you lot are going to call me 'racist' and all that, but can you really blame me? In the first world war, i lost 1 great grandad and seven great uncles
Just wondering: What was so great about your uncles?

Nazis R Fuckin Scub Bags Of Da Earth!!!!! Nd Germans R Da Same!!! Dey All Deserve 2 B Nuked Or At Least Tourtured In Der Own Death Camps!!!! Der Fuckin Basterds Each Nd Every 1 Of Dem!!!!!

lol alright, but i didnt feel like reading 14 pages of posts..

BUT you should make yourself CLEAR otherwise this could be avoided "dumbass"

Ok, i apoligize. but just so you know, you said 'go learn your history mate...' like i said at the top, i am taking a history degree mainly focusing on the world wars (mainly the 1st), and have been studying for about three years now, so i know alot more than you! anyway, im sorry to anyone i have upset, everyone has a right to opinion, and that is my opinion! :)

Just wondering: What was so great about your uncles?

Nothing at all. But they were men aged 17 - 27 and, like all the other soldiers had no reason to die, and yes, including the Germans. Just wondering: What is so great about you? You think im sick? At least i dont go around making fun of people who fought for what they believed in, and fair enough the Germans were to, but that still does not give you the right to poke fun at people's losses, you sick moron.

You know it wasn't just Germans who were Nazis. There were plenty of people in other countries who believed in the Nazi idea of "racial purity." Hatred knows no borders. Germany simply became the most powerful player with a radical population and government. After all, they had to find those traitor Communists and Jews who caused Germany to lose WWI. Enemies from within right? Seems the Germans were in denial that they had simply had lost the war mainly because the Allies got fresh bodies in the Americans.

Ok, i apoligize. but just so you know, you said 'go learn your history mate...' like i said at the top, i am taking a history degree mainly focusing on the world wars (mainly the 1st), and have been studying for about three years now, so i know alot more than you! anyway, im sorry to anyone i have upset, everyone has a right to opinion, and that is my opinion! :)


alright alright, so we're both wrong- we're even then ;)

BUT knowing more about history?!! than me!! never! :eek: lol

Yeah, the only thing that could be worse would be dropping nuclear bombs on hundreds of thousands of innocent civillians...Thank god only one nation in history has ever stooped to that level...twice.

alright alright, so we're both wrong- we're even then ;)

BUT knowing more about history?!! than me!! never! :eek: lol

Lol! even ;)
And studying history for sooo long gets quite boring sometimes... :p

Nothing at all. But they were men aged 17 - 27 and, like all the other soldiers had no reason to die, and yes, including the Germans. Just wondering: What is so great about you? You think im sick? At least i dont go around making fun of people who fought for what they believed in, and fair enough the Germans were to, but that still does not give you the right to poke fun at people's losses, you sick moron.
Don't you love it when someone is so wound up that any comment pushes them over the edge? :p
What's so great about me? Probably not taking anything too seriously or personally. Makes life a far more enjoyable experience. Get a lot more reading done for one thing.

Don't you love it when someone is so wound up that any comment pushes them over the edge? :p
What's so great about me? Probably not taking anything too seriously or personally. Makes life a far more enjoyable experience. Get a lot more reading done for one thing.

Lol! Im not wound up, i just find it strange how you like taking the piss of other peoples losses, thats all. Erm, trust me, i don't normally take things that seriously, but then that was quite a sick question tbh, so ya know.

Don't you love it when someone is so wound up that any comment pushes them over the edge? :p
What's so great about me? Probably not taking anything too seriously or personally. Makes life a far more enjoyable experience. Get a lot more reading done for one thing.

Especially when it turns out that the bigoted little prat is a student and has to resort to the "I study history, which means I know more than you so there" routine. All it does is reveal his lack of basic knowledge - I note that on his list of countries visited there is one that that conspicuously absent.