NationStates Jolt Archive

Uhm... did you read what I wrote, or just snip it?

I do NOT believe that ALL home demolished were the homes of terrorists. When a town shelters people who blow up schoolkids and old folks and commuters and anyone else who just happened to be nearby, shit can get out of hand.I read it. I'm asking for some sources to show that's an effective anti terrorist tactic and that most houses bulldozed are sheltering terrorists..

..........some Iranian wrestler withdrew after he learned he needed to wrestle an Israeli. Sickening. This is against the Olympic spirit. We're supposed to put asside our differences for a few days, and just compete. We can't let grudges hold us from everything.

Well actually South Africa was banned from participating in the Olympics in 1964 due to their Apartheid policies.

Then in 1976, 25 African nations withdrew their Olympic teams out of protest because New Zealand played Rugby with South Africa and were not banned from the Olympics.

The Olympics is supposed to be a time for international co-operation between nations. But why should we co-operate with rascist oppresive regimes that do not respect equal rights for all their citizens?

I dislike Israeli Policies, ie bulldozing Palestinians' houses and British Nationals, but that is different to anti-semitism. That's like saying you hate Christians because you dislike American foreign Policy, as America is offcially a Christian country.

Israel is disliked because of its conduct in the occupied Palestinian territories. It has nothing to do with anti-semitism.

Youre joking me. First youve got your facts wrong but thats your buisness. Were not talking here about disagreements with israel, were talking about disagreements with the existance of Israel, hatred of the Jewish state. And that, my friend is because of antisemitism. 50 years ago people like you would be attributing the holocaust to the fault of the jews, 100 years ago you would have said that Jews deserved their pogroms. If this dislike of israeli policy (or the leftist illusion of it) why do you not pursue China or Guatamala, Sudan or Iran all guilty of the charges you fabricate against israel, with equal fervor. Ask yourself that. Why is Israel so hated? Because it is a jewish state and because it is Jews who are always hated.
And beyond all this how is the supposed action of the Israeli government the fault of ATHLETES. Hasnt Israel had a bad enough time in the Olympics (Munich)?

I read it. I'm asking for some sources to show that's an effective anti terrorist tactic and that most houses bulldozed are sheltering terrorists..

It's certainly NOT an effective antiterrorist tactic and I never said that it was.

I just waded through a couple of google-shit-rivers of pro-Palestinian accounts of this israeli tactic, and even they acknowledge that the targets of the demolitions are primarily the homes of the terrorists. Here is one:

http://www.phrmg.org/monitor1997/may97.htm

Note the last sentence of the first paragraph: "This is in addition to the demolition of the homes of the families of members of the 'Sourif Cell.' "

If you know of a place where I/we can find statistics of alleged demolitions of houses unrelated to terror suspects, preferably one that shows this data as a percentage of all punishment-related house demolitions, please share it here. Or, alternately, give me a credible example of a verified demolition of a house unrelated to terrorism.

if the arabs want to change this reality - they should abandon terrorism and the so called the "Right Of Return" = the claim to flood Israeli Land with millions of Arab refugees , and sit with us for peace negotiations.

Excuse me while I laugh at that excerpt..

Abandoning the right of refugees to return?.. Are you serious?.. That would never happen.. The neighboring countries want to get rid of their Palestinian populations, they would never abandon that claim. And neither would any Muslim in his right mind..

If Middle Eastern governments do agree to that claim, they'd be overthrown in an instant by their populations since the fundamentalists would get much needed support from moderates..

'Sit' with you for peace negotiations?.. That's also funny..

Originally Posted by Druthulhu
I just waded through a couple of google-shit-rivers of pro-Palestinian...
Gee, let me guess: you're aligned with the Israelis aren't you?
Now tell me, why are all the pro-palestinian accounts "shit-rivers" and the one that backs your beliefs not? That's hardly what I call objective research.

:headbang:

What would be really really good is if anyone who was pro-israel knew the facts first. There is a very helpful site (some of which has, I think, been written by Jewish people, for those who still believe all that anti-israel = anti-semetic BS) called ifamericansknew.org. It gives a lot of accurate information about the history and the current status of the conflict, complete with maps, references and quotes from many of the people involved in setting up israel and expanding its borders. A good place to start is here: http://www.ifamericansknew.org/history/origin.html

Unfortunately, I strongly doubt that anyone will bother.

Gee, let me guess: you're aligned with the Israelis aren't you?
Now tell me, why are all the pro-palestinian accounts "shit-rivers" and the one that backs your beliefs not? That's hardly what I call objective research.

Point is, there was hardly a speck of anything pro-Isreal there, and still the ones I found mostly only had examples of terrorists' houses being demolished. Objective research was not an option, and still...

Anyway as to what I believe, rather than assuming you can look through most of the recent threads regarding Israel and find out for yourself. I am pro-Green Line, believe that Sharon is a mass murderer, and I have personally convincing although unverifiable evidence that the current intifada was his own little "october surprise".

Don't buy the old Coke-"or"-Pepsi party's "all from column A or all from column B" propaganda, Hamsters. I can tell by your username that you are far to smart for that ;)

Yeah, it was very bad that the Israeli team got no applause. It's against the Olympic spirit and chances are the athletes don't approve of their military's policies. Supporters of Likud's policies are in the minority in Israel.

I agree totally. Let's condemn Israel for everything it does. Let's bash them as if they target civilians and ignore it when the terrorists do it.

Israel never intentionally targets civilians. Unfortunately, terrorists have purposely tried to hide among the civilian population in an effort to use the Israeli army's morality against it. The terrorists themselves do not care about the lives of innocent Palestinians.
The Israeli Army does target civilians deliberately. Sure, it was a total accident when they tied that boy to their jeep, just like it was an accident when they shot 8-year-old Haneen Suliaman.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/g2/story/0,,1007051,00.html

Nobody is saying that the terrorists' actions are acceptable, but as the more powerful force, it is Israel's responsibility to try to bring peace. So far, they seem not to be doing this.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/comment/story/0,,975423,00.html

The original founders of the Jewish state could surely not imagine the irony facing Israel today: in escaping the ashes of the Holocaust, they have incarcerated another people in a hell similar in its nature - though not its extent - to the Warsaw ghetto.

We will continue to live on our land and if the Arabs won't accept that -
they will continue to face the consequinces Remember that little peace initiative called the Roadmap? It was Sharon who refused to accept it, not the Palestinians. Most Palestinians only want their own state. They aren't challenging Israel's right to exist anymore.

I found this article very interesting:


The Dancing Bear

by Uri Avnery

"Photos can lie, and this one was misleading. It was not Sharon who was the extra in this act, but Bush. It was not the bear who made his master dance.."

Once upon a time there was a popular kind of street show: a bear would dance for the amusement of passers by, who would throw coins into his box. The bear was big and frightening, but his clumsy movements made people laugh. He was much stronger than his master, who kept him on a chain, but submitted to him completely. A wonder to behold.

The national symbol of the United States is the eagle. The bear, as everybody knows, is the national symbol of Russia. But looking at the Sharon-Bush relationship, it is the old master-and-bear show that inevitably springs to mind.

Ariel Sharon plays games with the American bear. He makes him dance, jump, lie down and get up again, turn around and perform somersaults, much to the amusement of the Israeli public.

Every few months Sharon invents a new act. The bear applauds and does what he is commanded to do, until the performance loses its novelty. Then Sharon comes up with something new.

That happened with the act called the Road Map. To be accurate, this one was not invented by Sharon, but by the bear himself. Bush had a Vision. A real inspiration. “Two States for Two Peoples”. Something new and revolutionary. (Never mind that the 1947 UN resolution establishing Israel included this, and that Israeli and Palestinian peace activists had been preaching this idea for decades. The bear’s brain works slowly, and, as the saying goes, better late than never.)

This vision brought forth the Road Map. A very complex and convoluted map. If an ordinary driver had to find his way with such a map, he would never see his destination. But the map bore the personal stamp of the President of the United States, as well as the signatures of Europe, Russia and the United Nations. So who could have any doubts about it?

The act started in Aqaba. George Double-U likes to have his picture taken against impressive backgrounds. Indeed, it seems that he spends considerable time and energy choosing the backdrop for his next photo - an aircraft carrier, a full army division on parade, jubilant soldiers in Baghdad... This time, too, he found an impressive background: tropical shore, blue sea, tall palm-trees, exotic landscape. Sharon and Abu-Mazen performing as extras. They received the Road Map in a solemn ceremony, much as Moses received – not far from there – the tablets of the Ten Commandments.

But photos can lie, and this one was misleading, too. It was not Sharon who was the extra in this act, but Bush. It was not the bear who made his master dance, but the other way around.

The act was devoid of content. The Road Map was already dead before it was born, because Sharon never dreamt of following its course. He has a different map, different routes and different destinations.

On the face of it, Sharon’s response was “Yes, but…” He added 14 reservations that emptied the document of any content. They stipulated that the Sharon government would implement its part of the deal only after the Palestinians had accomplished a number of impossible tasks. The Palestinians, of course, could not, and the result was that Abu-Mazen disappeared from the scene.

And Sharon? He played the game to the end. Sent emissaries to Washington, conducted talks, received American functionaries, visited the White House and swore at every opportunity that he had no aim more sacred that realizing Bush’s Vision. The American President melted and sang the praises of this “Man of Peace”.

According to the Road Map, Sharon was obliged to remove all the settlements set up since the beginning of his term in early 2001. But he had the bear dance to the left and to the right, until the poor beast did not know the difference anymore. So, not all the settlements should be removed. Only the “illegal” outposts. (Illegal according to the laws of the occupation authorities, of course.) And not all the illegal outposts, by any means, just one or two. In the end, not a single one was removed. But the American bear danced on happily.

In the meantime, scores of new outposts have sprung up, all of them “illegal”. The Israeli government connected them up with water and electricity and built new roads for them. Huge sums were spent on them – money taken from the education, health and welfare budgets. The older settlements, too, were expanded at a frantic pace. The landscape of the West Bank was changing visibly. Everywhere, new roads for the convenience of the settlers came into being. And the bear danced on.

To all of this, the Wall was added. At first, it was presented as a security fence and it was assumed that it would follow, more or less, the 1967 Green Line. But soon it became apparent that it was cutting deep into the West Bank, annexing large tracts of land and turning the declared aim of the Road Map – a viable Palestinian state - into a mockery. The American satellites took pictures, and the bear still danced on. The main thing was, after all, that Sharon continued to praise the Road Map.

And then Sharon got fed up with the act, and perhaps he was afraid that the bear would get tired or nervous. So he invented a new dance: Unilateral Disconnecting. We leave the Gaza Strip, dismantle 14 settlements there, and, for good measure, some settlements on the West Bank, too.

So everything has started again right from the beginning. Emissaries are being sent to America. Emissaries from America are being received in Jerusalem. Sharon’s confidant, Dov Weisglas, will go and see Condoleezza. An Israeli general will meet with an American general. Sharon will visit the White House. And in Israel itself the proper backdrop for the performance is being set up in the form of stormy demonstrations of the settlers, fierce denunciations by rabbis, threats of cabinet crises, dozens of articles by learned pundits promising that this time, this very time, the 101st time, he is serious. This time Sharon truly means what he says.

Washington is jubilant. Well, maybe it is not exactly the Road Map, but one can pretend that it is. The main thing is that Sharon is again shown to be a Man of Peace, ready for withdrawal and the dismantling of settlements. Who would have believed it?

This week, Bush sent Three Wise Men to Sharon (including Elliot Abrams, a gentleman slightly more Zionist than Sharon himself, if such a thing were possible) in order to ask politely: From where exactly does Sharon intend to withdraw? Exactly which settlements does he plan to give up? When exactly is it going to happen? And, please, could one perhaps have a look at a map?

Sharon laughed in their faces. No map. No timetable. No nothing. It is still an idea. People are working on it. Here in the corner, a Real General is thinking about it all the time.

Certainly. They will think, prepare papers, fly to Washington and back, Dov will meet Condoleezza, Sharon will see Bush. (In the meantime, the Americans are being asked to give some billions for the payment of compensation to the settlers. Since the Americans paid billions for installing the settlers in the first place, it is only right that they should pay a few more billions to move them out again.)

And so it will continue, until Sharon gets tired of this act, too. Then he will invent a new one. After all, the main thing is for the bear to keep on dancing.

- Avnery is an Israeli peace activist and a journalist.

Druthulhu, I just meant that using emotive terms like "shit-rivers" immediately lessens whatever point you are trying to make. I have no real opinion about the Israeli/Palestine issue, as I'm too far away and too removed from the conflict to feel I can seriously decide.
I think personally that the Israeli govt has made some appalling and downright criminal decisions and carried out actions that can only be described as war-crimes, but yet I think that the extreme elements in the Palestine side will never be appeased no matter what happens and will continue to always fight. So whatever Israel does (other than disappearing completely) will never be good enough for Hamas and other extreme groups. And the same can be said for Palestine and the Jewish ultra-right (Sharon being one of them).
Still it'd be nice if so many innocents weren't caught up in all this. They're used by both sides ("They blew up a bus!" "They demolished a House!")to justify further awful actions against the other.

Youre joking me. First youve got your facts wrong but thats your buisness. Were not talking here about disagreements with israel, were talking about disagreements with the existance of Israel, hatred of the Jewish state.............................Why is Israel so hated? Because it is a jewish state and because it is Jews who are always hated.

Hmmmmm..............This sounds vaguely familiar.

Substitute the word 'Israel' with 'Germany' and 'Jews' with 'Aryans' and it would sound just like one of Hitlers pre-war speeches.

The people should have applauded the Israeli athletes. I mean it's not like they have any influence over Israel's policies is it? And maybe they don't even like Israel's policies.

I am truely ashamed that so many are so ignorant -- and believe me when I say that I speak from a position of persoal knowledge. 'slips off role playing persona' I am an American born and raised in the most hated of all ME countries, Saudi Arabia. 'waits for booing to subside and ducks rotten vegetables being thrown' It is not Israel per se that is so hated, it is Zionism. Zionism is the doctrine of extremists and way of thinking which seeks to expand the present nation of Isreal to occupy lands that they feel were "promised" to them thousands of years ago at the expense of anyone who gets in their way. They believe that any and all methods are justified against the Palestinian peoples in order to achieve these ends. And yes, their doctrine very much echoes that of Nazi fanaticism.

There are many Isrealis who are opposed to Zionist tactics and who stand up with the oppressed to let their voice be heard. They advocate peace with their neighnors and respect for other nations. If you want to look into this run a web search for Jews for Peace.

Hatred between Zionists and the Arab nations which surround them is a knee jerk reaction of the ignorant and must be abolished. Only knowledge wil do this.

Here are some common misconceptions about the situation in the ME:

All Arabs are Muslims. They are not. Many Arab countries are comprised of people from many different reigions, even those of Jewish faith. Yes, there are Jewish Arabs!

All Jews support Isreal and Zionism. Some support neither, some support one but not the other and some support both. There are Isreali citizens wo ae brave enough to stand up against their government's Zionist members and actions. They continue to be a spark of hope in the darkness.

All Muslims hate all Jews. This is not true either, there are Muslims who understand and work for peace. As in all organized religons, both sides have fanatical factions and it is these that are keeping the conflict alive at the expese of the innocent.

Do yourselves and the world a favour and educate yourselves. Spend at least a fraction of the time that you spend here playing looking for facts and finding out the truth. And try not to open your mouthes in ignorance. It only adds to the noise and confusion that fanatics love to use to hide their actions.

The people should have applauded the Israeli athletes. I mean it's not like they have any influence over Israel's policies is it? And maybe they don't even like Israel's policies.

Maybe they don't like israeli policies. And it is sad, and I feel sorry for them. But people are generally so apathetic and under-informed that such an international (and peaceful) display could do some good. Maybe it will cause more people to talk about israel, maybe a few more will realise what it is all about, maybe a few more will boycott israeli goods, or petition their politicians to put more pressure on israel. And whilst it is unfortunate for israeli individuals to be treated badly, it is a democracy of sorts, and they do have some influence over what their government does.

:D
Some people just restore your faith in humanity.

I don't hate Israel - there is no Israel. There is Canaan. I will only ever notice the Nation of Israel when the true Israelites are in control.

Who are these TRUE Israelites you refer to? Are they the ancestors of the people of Northern Europe as some have claimed? That is a theory I would like to believe in but there is no evidence to prove this. I have been through debate after debate on both sides of this and I can only conclude that any who are against Israel are only hiding their anti-semitism. I don't believe the Jews are really asking for much. One tiny strip of land in the whole world simply for their own protection. "DERR... DA HOLOKAST WAS DONE A MYTH" Fact is, if anyone besides Jews were doing the same thing to the Palestinians you would have no problem with it. Admit it. I know for a fact that the Palestinians only want to massacre the Jewish people. Israel is only seeking to protect its people from terrorism. Unlike many who participate in these (pointless) debates, I have actually been to Israel and witnessed the situation first-hand. I'll take the company of a Jew over a towelhead any day.

Yes I am talking about Europe and America, and Australia etc. Look up the banners of the Israelites - many are found today (Well all of them) on the National symbols. From the Lion (Judah) and Unicon (Ephraim) found on the British Coat of Arms. The Wolf of Benjamin and the Wolf Guarded Column of Norway. The American Eagle of Manasseh - America, the Olives and Arrows of Manasseh in is claws. I could go on for ages, but yeah I'm tired.

:headbang:

What would be really really good is if anyone who was pro-israel knew the facts first. There is a very helpful site (some of which has, I think, been written by Jewish people, for those who still believe all that anti-israel = anti-semetic BS) called ifamericansknew.org. It gives a lot of accurate information about the history and the current status of the conflict, complete with maps, references and quotes from many of the people involved in setting up israel and expanding its borders. A good place to start is here: http://www.ifamericansknew.org/history/origin.html

Unfortunately, I strongly doubt that anyone will bother.

I'm aware of the group. The website is dishonest and misleading. Many of their facts and quotes are cobbled together to give an inaccurate picture of the situation, particularly when speaking of Jewish individuals or beliefs. Their only cited resource for their section on Jewish fundamentalism, for instance, is a known "self-hating Jew", Dr. Israel Shahak, whose work was thoroughly debunked, and who, on top of everything else, was a trained chemist, not a theologian or political scientist. If you want resources on Jewish fundamentalism, there are much better sources, and they are easy to find. There is only one reason someone would choose Dr. Shahak as their only source- a desire to demonize Orthodox Judaism. Shahak died several years ago but his work- particularly digging up fraudulent Talmud quotes and otherwise maligning Orthodox Judaism- continues to be used by anti-Semites the world over. Thanks, Shahak.

After seeing some of the dishonesty on that page, I must say I do not consider it a reliable source. Other parts of it may in fact be accurate, but I'm certainly not going to give it the benefit of the doubt.

im sorry but i dont believe you. I need you to prove that israelites wish death upon me.

http://www.kahane.org/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.cgi?board=Unedited;action=display;num=1066526872

http://www.kahane.org/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.cgi?board=Unedited;action=display;num=1065892477

And on that site was a poster who said he wanted all American Christians killed by Osama bin Lardan. And yes, I am serious.

It made me sick, watching the Olympic opening ceremony, seeing the Israeli Olympic team marching in, it was so beautiful, but for a moment, I was so angry that those men and women were so hated. It is so awful. They got absolutely no applause. They came after Spain, who got a huge round of applause, and when Spain had marched by, and the noise died down, it did not get any louder when Israel came in. No one cheered. It was sickening. The fu***n United Arab Emirates team got more damn applause. The UAE had 3 frickin athletes. It made me sick. Anti-semitism has got to be one of the worst things ever. As a Christian and an American, I am appalled, and I hope to god those athletes are safe through this Olympic games and beyond. God protect them, becuase no one knows what crazy Islamic fundementalist or neo-nazi is going to try to kill them.

It isn't anti-semitic to hate a nation that denies over half the populace the vote, has broken more U.N. resolutions than any other state in history, and commits war crimes almost weekly. Also, you really should now that Arabs are also semites. If you hate Israelis and like Palestinians, then that's nationalism not racism.

the growing feeling against israel has nothing to do with people being anti-semitic it comes from the Israeli government and there unjustified policy of oppression against the people of palestine. I find it extremely distastful that a race of people who have suffered so much over the years can now turn around and become the oppressor of another race. It seems that when anyone criticise's the policies of the Israeli government they are branded anti-semitic which is far too simplistic, Israel does not not have the monopoly on the hurt feelings of the world, there was more than one holocaust, the Irish famine and the African holocasut were just as bad. so if the Israeli athlete's want to be cheered i suggest they have a word with there government and mr. Sharron and stop this disgraceful treatment of the people of Palestine.

UN Resolutions Against Israel, 1955-1992:

Resolution 106: "...‘condemns’ Israel for Gaza raid"
Resolution 111: "...‘condemns’ Israel for raid on Syria that killed fifty-six people"
Resolution 127: "...‘recommends’ Israel suspend its ‘no-man’s zone’ in Jerusalem"
Resolution 162: "...‘urges’ Israel to comply with UN decisions"
Resolution 171: "...determines flagrant violations’ by Israel in its attack on Syria"
Resolution 228: "...‘censures’ Israel for its attack on Samu in the West Bank, then under Jordanian control"
Resolution 237: "...‘urges’ Israel to allow return of new 1967 Palestinian refugees"
Resolution 248: "...‘condemns’ Israel for its massive attack on Karameh in Jordan"
Resolution 250: "...‘calls’ on Israel to refrain from holding military parade in Jerusalem"
Resolution 251: "...‘deeply deplores’ Israeli military parade in Jerusalem in defiance of Resolution 250"
Resolution 252: "...‘declares invalid’ Israel’s acts to unify Jerusalem as Jewish capital"
Resolution 256: "...‘condemns’ Israeli raids on Jordan as ‘flagrant violation"
Resolution 259: "...‘deplores’ Israel’s refusal to accept UN mission to probe occupation"
Resolution 262: "...‘condemns’ Israel for attack on Beirut airport"
Resolution 265: "...‘condemns’ Israel for air attacks for Salt in Jordan"
Resolution 267: "...‘censures’ Israel for administrative acts to change the status of Jerusalem"
Resolution 270: "...‘condemns’ Israel for air attacks on villages in southern Lebanon"
Resolution 271: "...‘condemns’ Israel’s failure to obey UN resolutions on Jerusalem"
Resolution 279: "...‘demands’ withdrawal of Israeli forces from Lebanon"
Resolution 280: "....‘condemns’ Israeli’s attacks against Lebanon"
Resolution 285: "...‘demands’ immediate Israeli withdrawal form Lebanon"
Resolution 298: "...‘deplores’ Israel’s changing of the status of Jerusalem"
Resolution 313: "...‘demands’ that Israel stop attacks against Lebanon"
Resolution 316: "...‘condemns’ Israel for repeated attacks on Lebanon"
Resolution 317: "...‘deplores’ Israel’s refusal to release Arabs abducted in Lebanon"
Resolution 332: "...‘condemns’ Israel’s repeated attacks against Lebanon"
Resolution 337: "...‘condemns’ Israel for violating Lebanon’s sovereignty"
Resolution 347: "...‘condemns’ Israeli attacks on Lebanon"
Resolution 425: "...‘calls’ on Israel to withdraw its forces from Lebanon"
Resolution 427: "...‘calls’ on Israel to complete its withdrawal from Lebanon’
Resolution 444: "...‘deplores’ Israel’s lack of cooperation with UN peacekeeping forces"
Resolution 446: "...‘determines’ that Israeli settlements are a ‘serious obstruction’ to peace and calls on Israel to abide by the Fourth Geneva Convention"
Resolution 450: "...‘calls’ on Israel to stop attacking Lebanon"
Resolution 452: "...‘calls’ on Israel to cease building settlements in occupied territories"
Resolution 465: "...‘deplores’ Israel’s settlements and asks all member states not to assist Israel’s settlements program"
Resolution 467: "...‘strongly deplores’ Israel’s military intervention in Lebanon"
Resolution 468: "...‘calls’ on Israel to rescind illegal expulsions of two Palestinian mayors and a judge and to facilitate their return"
Resolution 469: "...‘strongly deplores’ Israel’s failure to observe the council’s order not to deport Palestinians"
Resolution 471: "...‘expresses deep concern’ at Israel’s failure to abide by the Fourth Geneva Convention"
Resolution 476: "...‘reiterates’ that Israel’s claims to Jerusalem are ‘null and void’
Resolution 478: "...‘censures (Israel) in the strongest terms’ for its claim to Jerusalem in its ‘Basic Law’
Resolution 484: "...‘declares it imperative’ that Israel re-admit two deported Palestinian mayors"
Resolution 487: "...‘strongly condemns’ Israel for its attack on Iraq’s nuclear facility"
Resolution 497: "...‘decides’ that Israel’s annexation of Syria’s Golan Heights is ‘null and void’ and demands that Israel rescind its decision forthwith"
Resolution 498: "...‘calls’ on Israel to withdraw from Lebanon"
Resolution 501: "...‘calls’ on Israel to stop attacks against Lebanon and withdraw its troops"
Resolution 509: "...‘demands’ that Israel withdraw its forces forthwith and unconditionally from Lebanon"
Resolution 515: "...‘demands’ that Israel lift its siege of Beirut and allow food supplies to be brought in"
Resolution 517: "...‘censures’ Israel for failing to obey UN resolutions and demands that Israel withdraw its forces from Lebanon"
Resolution 518: "...‘demands’ that Israel cooperate fully with UN forces in Lebanon"
Resolution 520: "...‘condemns’ Israel’s attack into West Beirut"
Resolution 573: "...‘condemns’ Israel ‘vigorously’ for bombing Tunisia in attack on PLO headquarters
Resolution 587: "...‘takes note’ of previous calls on Israel to withdraw its forces from Lebanon and urges all parties to withdraw"
Resolution 592: "...‘strongly deplores’ the killing of Palestinian students at Bir Zeit University by Israeli troops"
Resolution 605: "...‘strongly deplores’ Israel’s policies and practices denying the human rights of Palestinians
Resolution 607: "...‘calls’ on Israel not to deport Palestinians and strongly requests it to abide by the Fourth Geneva Convention
Resolution 608: "...‘deeply regrets’ that Israel has defied the United Nations and deported Palestinian civilians"
Resolution 636: "...‘deeply regrets’ Israeli deportation of Palestinian civilians
Resolution 641: "...‘deplores’ Israel’s continuing deportation of Palestinians
Resolution 672: "...‘condemns’ Israel for violence against Palestinians at the Haram al-Sharif/Temple Mount
Resolution 673: "...‘deplores’ Israel’s refusal to cooperate with the United Nations
Resolution 681: "...‘deplores’ Israel’s resumption of the deportation of Palestinians
Resolution 694: "...‘deplores’ Israel’s deportation of Palestinians and calls on it to ensure their safe and immediate return
Resolution 726: "...‘strongly condemns’ Israel’s deportation of Palestinians
Resolution 799: "...‘strongly condemns’ Israel’s deportation of 413 Palestinians and calls for their immediate return.


How on Earth can anyone argue with that? Israel has got to be the nation that has received the most UN resolutions against it , probably by a factor of several times over its nearest rival. And these are only the ones that the Americans didnt veto (which is something that they do more and more often now)! Anyone who is Pro-Israeli, please, please, please, I would love to see your defense against these statistics (unless your arguments will include the word "towelhead"- we anti-israelis arent going on about yids, or chlorine-fodder, so dont start getting racist please)

How on Earth can anyone argue with that? Israel has got to be the nation that has received the most UN resolutions against it , probably by a factor of several times over its nearest rival. And these are only the ones that the Americans didnt veto (which is something that they do more and more often now)! Anyone who is Pro-Israeli, please, please, please, I would love to see your defense against these statistics (unless your arguments will include the word "towelhead"- we anti-israelis arent going on about yids, or chlorine-fodder, so dont start getting racist please)

Palestinian terrorists teach their children to be human bombs, and Israel gets censured for the security measures it takes against them. Clear proof to me, although not of what you seem to want it to prove.

Clear proof that the Arabs control things in the U.N. when it comes to this conflict.

Palestinian terrorists teach their children to be human bombs, and Israel gets censured for the security measures it takes against them. Clear proof to me, although not of what you seem to want it to prove..

But you said it yourself, those palestinians are TERRORISTS. Israel claims to be a non-terrorist state, so it should not apply terrorist practices. And btw the palestinians that comit suicide bombings are not the majority of the people. These are just actions of a bunch of fanatics, you can't blame a whole nation for that. On the other hand, israeli goverment is ellected from the people of israel, therefore one can blame their actions on the people that vote for them.

Clear proof that the Arabs control things in the U.N. when it comes to this conflict.

They do NOT control things in the UN. But even if they did... The US themselves could VETO every single one of the above resolutions. They chose not to. Why? Because YOUR goverment (the one you elected) thought that they HAD to be passed.

But you said it yourself, those palestinians are TERRORISTS. Israel claims to be a non-terrorist state, so it should not apply terrorist practices. And btw the palestinians that comit suicide bombings are not the majority of the people. These are just actions of a bunch of fanatics, you can't blame a whole nation for that. On the other hand, israeli goverment is ellected from the people of israel, therefore one can blame their actions on the people that vote for them.



They do NOT control things in the UN. But even if they did... The US themselves could VETO every single one of the above resolutions. They chose not to. Why? Because YOUR goverment (the one you elected) thought that they HAD to be passed.

Oh my... another New Member. Did your old account get deleted or did you just now decide to join us?

Gee, how about the U.N. condemning the states that support palestinian terrorism? No? Didn't think so.

Oh my... another New Member. Did your old account get deleted or did you just now decide to join us?What exactly has the newness of someone's membership got to do with the validity of their arguments?

Out of interest, when you were in Israel did you spend any time in the Palestinian terratories?

What exactly has the newness of someone's membership got to do with the validity of their arguments?

Out of interest, when you were in Israel did you spend any time in the Palestinian terratories?

Concerning the recent spate of Jew-hating threads, not that I consider this to be one of them, founded by people with absolutely no provenence here under the usernames that they use, and the practice of even more of their nazi-cloned-Sheep brethren showing up out of nothingness to take over their arguments, I put precious little stock, especially in threads that attract Nazis, in the posts of forumites who did not exist yesterday.

I lived for two out of three years in the Old City, in the Christian (Arab) quarter right across from the Armenian (E.O. Christian) Quarter. I drove through the West Bank on the way to and from the Galilee several times, and I travelled to Nablus, Palestine for business. Once I was not allowed back into Israel because my visa had expired, so I left the road and walked through a shanty town and that was all it took.

OK ok I will treat his arguments as if they were worth half a wet turd:



U.S. Vetoes of UN Resolutions Critical of Israel
(1972-2004)

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Vetoes: 1972-1982
Subject Date & Meeting US Rep Casting Veto Vote
Palestine: Syrian-Lebanese Complaint. 3 power draft resolution 2/10784 9/10/1972 Bush 13-1, 1
Palestine: Examination of Middle East Situation. 8-power draft resolution (S/10974) 7/2/1973 Scali 13-1, 0 (China not partic.)
Palestine: Egyptian-Lebanese Complaint. 5-power draft power resolution (S/11898) 12/8/1975 Moynihan 13-1, 1
Palestine: Middle East Problem, including Palestinian question. 6-power draft resolution (S/11940) 1/26/1976 Moynihan 9-1,3 (China & Libya not partic.)
Palestine: Situation in Occupied Arab Territories. 5-power draft resolution (S/12022) 3/25/1976 Scranton 14-1,0
Palestine: Report on Committee on Rights of Palestinian People. 4-power draft resolution (S/121119) 6/29/1976 Sherer 10-1,4
Palestine: Palestinian Rights. Tunisian draft resolution. (S/13911) 4/30/1980 McHenry 10-1,4
Palestine: Golan Heights. Jordan draft resolution. (S/14832/Rev. 2) 1/20/1982 Kirkpatrick 9-1,5
Palestine: Situation in Occupied Territories, Jordan draft resolution (S/14943) 4/2/1982 Lichenstein 13-1,1
Palestine: Incident at the Dome of the Rock in Jerusalem. 4-power draft resolution 4/20/1982 Kirpatrick 14-1, 0
Palestine: Conflict in Lebanon. Spain draft resolution. (S/15185) 6/8/1982 Kirpatrick 14-1,0
Palestine: Conflict in Lebanon. France draft resolution. (S/15255/Rev. 2) 6/26/1982 Lichenstein 14-1
Palestine: Conflict in Lebanon. USSR draft resolution. (S/15347/Rev. 1, as orally amended) 8/6/1982 Lichenstein 11-1,3
Palestine: Situation in Occupied Territories, 20-power draft resolution (S/15895) 8/2/1983 Lichenstein 13-1,1



Security Council Vetoes/Negative voting 1983-present
Subject Date Vote
Occupied Arab Territories: Wholesale condemnation of Israeli settlement policies - not adopted 1983
S. Lebanon: Condemns Israeli action in southern Lebanon. S/16732 9/6/1984 Vetoed: 13-1 (U.S.), with 1 abstention (UK)
Occupied Territories: Deplores "repressive measures" by Israel against Arab population. S/19459. 9/13/1985 Vetoed: 10-1 (U.S.), with 4 abstentions (Australia, Denmark, UK, France)
Lebanon: Condemns Israeli practices against civilians in southern Lebanon. S/17000. 3/12/1985 Vetoed: 11-1 (U.S.), with 3 abstentions (Australia, Denmark, UK)
Occupied Territories: Calls upon Israel to respect Muslim holy places. S/17769/Rev. 1 1/30/1986 Vetoed: 13-1 (US), with one abstention (Thailand)
Lebanon: Condemns Israeli practices against civilians in southern Lebanon. S/17730/Rev. 2. 1/17/1986 Vetoed: 11-1 (U.S.), with 3 abstentions (Australia, Denmark, UK)
Libya/Israel: Condemns Israeli interception of Libyan plane. S/17796/Rev. 1. 2/6/1986 Vetoed: 10 -1 (US), with 4 abstentions (Australia, Denmark, France, UK)
Lebanon: Draft strongly deplored repeated Israeli attacks against Lebanese territory and other measures and practices against the civilian population; (S/19434) 1/18/1988 vetoed 13-1 (US), with 1 abstention (UK)
Lebanon: Draft condemned recent invasion by Israeli forces of Southern Lebanon and repeated a call for the immediate withdrawal of all Israeli forces from Lebanese territory; (S/19868) 5/10/1988 vetoed 14-1 (US)
Lebanon: Draft strongly deplored the recent Israeli attack against Lebanese territory on 9 December 1988; (S/20322) 12/14/1988 vetoed 14-1 (US)
Occupied territories: Draft called on Israel to accept de jure applicability of the 4th Geneva Convention; (S/19466) 1988 vetoed 14-1 (US)
Occupied territories: Draft urged Israel to abide by the Fourth Geneva Convention, rescind the order to deport Palestinian civilians, and condemned policies and practices of Israel that violate the human rights of the Palestinian people in the occupied territories; (S/19780) 1988 vetoed 14-1 (US)
Occupied territories: Strongly deplored Israeli policies and practices in the occupied territories, and strongly deplored also Israel's continued disregard of relevant Security Council decisions. 2/17/1989 Vetoed 14-1 (US)
Occupied territories: Condemned Israeli policies and practices in the occupied territories. 6/9/1989 Vetoed 14-1 (US)
Occupied territories: Deplored Israel's policies and practices in the occupied territories. 11/7/1989 Vetoed 14-1 (US)
Occupied territories: NAM draft resolution to create a commission and send three security council members to Rishon Lezion, where an Israeli gunmen shot down seven Palestinian workers. 5/31/1990 Vetoed 14-1 (US)
Middle East: Confirms that the expropriation of land by Israel in East Jerusalem is invalid and in violation of relevant Security Council resolutions and provisions of the Fourth Geneva convention; expresses support of peace process, including the Declaration of Principles of 9/13/1993 5/17/1995 Vetoed 14-1 (US)
Middle East: Calls upon Israeli authorities to refrain from all actions or measures, including settlement activities. 3/7/1997 Vetoed 14-1 (US)
Middle East: Demands that Israel cease construction of the settlement in east Jerusalem (called Jabal Abu Ghneim by the Palestinians and Har Homa by Israel), as well as all the other Israeli settlement activity in the occupied territories
3/21/1997 Vetoed 13-1,1 (US)
Call for UN Observers Force in West Bank, Gaza 3/27/2001 Vetoed 9-1 (US),
with four abstentions
(Britain, France, Ireland and Norway)
Condemned acts of terror, demanded an end to violence and the establishment of a monitoring mechanism to bring in observers. 12/15/2001 Vetoed 12-1 (US)
with two abstentions (Britain and Norway)
On the killing by Israeli forces of several UN employees and the destruction of the World Food Programme (WFP) warehouse
12/20/2002 12-1 (US) with 2 abstentions (Bulgaria and Cameroon)

Demand that Israel halt threats to expel Palestinian leader Yasser Arafat 9/16/03 Vetoed 11-1 (US)
with three abstentions
(Britain, Germany and Bulgaria)
Seeks to bar Israel from extending security fence 10/14/03 Vetoed 10-1 with four absentations (Britain, Germany, Bulgaria and Cameroon)
Condemns Israel for killing Ahmed Yassin 3/25/04 Vetoed 11-1 (US)
with three absentations
(Britain, Germany, Romania




--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Source: U.S. State Department

Isreal deserves everything they get. they are a hostile nation often reminiscent of the Soviet Union. Does no one else think that the wall they're building across the country is identical to that built across Berlin?? It's segregation, and something that most developed countries have fought against for years. I dont understand why we can simply turn our backs on Isreal and the Jewish faith to these clear and persistant attacks on both human rights and equality.

Why cant everyone be more like Canada?

Concerning the recent spate of Jew-hating threads, not that I consider this to be one of them, founded by people with absolutely no provenence here under the usernames that they use, and the practice of even more of their nazi-cloned-Sheep brethren showing up out of nothingness to take over their arguments, I put precious little stock, especially in threads that attract Nazis, in the posts of forumites who did not exist yesterday.I take your point, but I think you need to be careful about assuming people are fascists without proof. (One useful thing about the farcial poll Decisive Action posted on the holocaust, is that he was stupid enough to make the poll public which at least gives us some ideas about people's allegiances. It's certainly confirmed my suspicions about Communist Mississipi). I've seen this before on other forums. People get so jumpy after the arrival of a couple of fash they get over-paranoid and start chucking about allegations. If it starts scaring off genuine new posters then the other side has gained a victory.

I lived for two out of three years in the Old City, in the Christian (Arab) quarter right across from the Armenian (E.O. Christian) Quarter. I drove through the West Bank on the way to and from the Galilee several times, and I travelled to Nablus, Palestine for business. Once I was not allowed back into Israel because my visa had expired, so I left the road and walked through a shanty town and that was all it took.What contact did you have with both sides? And did you know many activists in the Israeli Peace Movement?

Isreal deserves everything they get. they are a hostile nation often reminiscent of the Soviet Union. Does no one else think that the wall they're building across the country is identical to that built across Berlin?? It's segregation, and something that most developed countries have fought against for years. I dont understand why we can simply turn our backs on Isreal and the Jewish faith to these clear and persistant attacks on both human rights and equality.

Why cant everyone be more like Canada?

See? :rolleyes: Another one!

You are either totally ignorant of history or else you think that Israel should just grin and bare it when Palestinians attached to bombs murder large numbers of their people. Or maybe you think they should pull out and just sit their when the new Palestinian army tries to invade?

I pretty much hate Israel too... although I do agree it is against the Olympic spirit, where political differences should be set aside in the name of the sports (for fair competition).

However, I don't think it's anti-semitism. Consider the fact that Ariel Sharon (sp?) is someone that many would consider approaching, if not being a war criminal. Consider the fact that Israel DID unfairly take the Palestinian's lands (with the backing of America, I have always always been against U.S support of Israel).

There's more, but I can't think of stuff off the top of my head. I haven't looked into stuff about Israel for a while.

If you really really desire it, I can look it up sometime.

However I think you can understand when I say it's not anti-semitism... I wouldn't care if that country was filled with Atheists, I'd still feel the same way.

Israel's acquasition of the West Bank and Gaza Strip were legal because a defending nation can, under international law, annex and keep land necessary for it's self-defense. Without the West Bank, Israel is only a few miles wide between the West Bank and Mediteranean Sea, making it easy for any aggressor nation to easily divide the small and well-despised nation.

Isreal deserves everything they get. they are a hostile nation often reminiscent of the Soviet Union. Does no one else think that the wall they're building across the country is identical to that built across Berlin?? It's segregation, and something that most developed countries have fought against for years. I dont understand why we can simply turn our backs on Isreal and the Jewish faith to these clear and persistant attacks on both human rights and equality.

Why cant everyone be more like Canada?This posters insistence on speaking about Israel and the Jewish faith as if they were one entity is blatantly anti-semitic however. Busted, fashboy.

From http://www.science.co.il/Arab-Israeli-conflict/Articles/AIPAC-2002-05-20.asp :

Arab-Israeli Conflict - Articles
U.N. Bias Against Israel
Source: AIPAC, May 20, 2002.

U.N. institutional structures consistently are used to isolate and vilify Israel.

Israel is the only country in the world that is not eligible to sit on the Security Council, the principal policy making body of the U.N. This situation violates the principle of the "sovereign equality of all member states" of the U.N. under Article 2 of the U.N. Charter.

Seven of the 140 items submitted for a vote in the U.N. General Assembly (UNGA) in 2002 were anti-Israel. Last year, the UNGA adopted 19 anti-Israel resolutions.

Israel is the object of more investigative committees, special representatives and rapporteurs than any other state in the U.N. system. For example, a special representative of the Director-General of UNESCO visited Israel 51 times during 27 years of activity. The Director-General of the International Labor Organization has sent a "Special Mission" to Israel and the territories every year for the past 17 years.

The "Special Committees" and "Palestinian Units" of the U.N. spend more than $3 million a year, essentially to spread anti-Israel propaganda. These bodies-the Committee on the Exercise of the Inalienable Rights of the Palestinian People, the Division on Palestinian Rights and the Special Committee to Investigate Israeli Practices affecting the Human Rights of the Palestinian People and Other Arabs-are the focus of the worst anti-Israel activity under the aegis of the U.N. They organize, inter alia, the annual "Palestine Day" events at the U.N., as well as symposia and other events.

The U.N. has repeatedly held "Emergency Special Sessions" focusing solely on Israel. Originally conceived in 1950 for emergencies like the Korean War, Emergency Special Sessions over the past 15 years have only focused on Israel. No Emergency Special Sessions were convened to examine the genocide in Rwanda, ethnic cleansing in the former Yugoslavia or other major world conflicts.

The U.N. routinely attempts to circumvent the founding principle of direct negotiations. The UNGA passes annual resolutions that undermine the principles of the Israeli-Palestinian peace process, based on direct negotiations between the two parties. By proposing specific solutions to issues such as Jerusalem, the Golan Heights and settlements, the U.N. pre-judges the outcome of negotiations. Ironically, it was the U.N. Security Council that proposed bilateral negotiations through Resolution 242 (1967) and 338 (1973).

The U.N. has failed to investigate Palestinian actions supporting terrorism.

The U.N. has never initiated any inquiry into Yasir Arafat and the Palestinian Authority's role in aiding and abetting terrorists, or passed one resolution condemning any terrorist organization operating against Israel.

One glaring example of the U.N.'s biased policy against Israel is the concealment and vehement denial of the existence of videotape of Hezbollah's abduction of three Israeli soldiers made by U.N. peacekeeping forces in Lebanon. For 11 months, the U.N. lied to the world and denied the existence of any evidence related to the abduction. When the cover-up was exposed, revealing the existence of the videotape, the U.N. eventually showed Israel a heavily edited videotape with the faces of the terrorists blurred. When asked the reason behind this, U.N. Secretary General Kofi Annan stated it was due to the U.N.'s standing as a neutral organization.

The U.N. has tolerated and fostered anti-Semitism and anti-Israel propaganda.

The U.N. has condemned virtually every conceivable form of racism. It has established programs to combat racism and its multiple facets - including xenophobia - but has consistently refused to condemn anti-Semitism. It only was on November 24, 1998, more than 50 years after the U.N.'s founding, that the word anti-Semitism was first mentioned in a U.N. resolution (GA Res. A/53/623).

"The Talmud says that if a Jew does not drink every year the blood of a non-Jewish man, he will be damned for eternity." -Saudi Arabian delegate Marouf al-Dawalibi before the 1984 U.N. Human Rights Commission conference on religious tolerance. A similar remark was made by Farouk al-Chareh, the Syrian Ambassador to the U.N., at a 1991 meeting, who insisted Jews killed Christian children to use their blood to make matzos, a charge recently recycled in a Saudi government sponsored newspaper.

On March 11, 1997, the Palestinian representative to the U.N. Human Rights Commission falsely charged Israel with injecting 300 Palestinian children with the HIV virus.

The U.N. Human Rights Commission promotes anti-Israel, anti-Semitic resolutions.

The Commission on Human Rights routinely adopts totally disproportionate resolutions concerning Israel. Of all condemnations of this agency, 26 percent refer to Israel alone, while rogue states such as Syria and Libya are never criticized.

Last summer's conference on Human Rights in Durban, South Africa, was devoted almost entirely to condemning Israel. The conference was boycotted by the United States and Britain.

The United States was kicked off the U.N. Commission for Human Rights in May 2001, despite being one of the most outspoken advocates for human rights and a founding member of the Commission. It was replaced by Sierra Leone and the Sudan, both of which have records of abuses of human rights, including slavery and the forced use of children as soldiers. The United States recently regained its seat after a yearlong absence.



Copyright © 1999-2004 Israel Science and Technology Directory. All Rights Reserved.

OK ok I will treat his arguments as if they were worth half a wet turd:



U.S. Vetoes of UN Resolutions Critical of Israel
(1972-2004)

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Vetoes: 1972-1982
Subject Date & Meeting US Rep Casting Veto Vote
Palestine: Syrian-Lebanese Complaint. 3 power draft resolution 2/10784 9/10/1972 Bush 13-1, 1
Palestine: Examination of Middle East Situation. 8-power draft resolution (S/10974) 7/2/1973 Scali 13-1, 0 (China not partic.)
Palestine: Egyptian-Lebanese Complaint. 5-power draft power resolution (S/11898) 12/8/1975 Moynihan 13-1, 1
Palestine: Middle East Problem, including Palestinian question. 6-power draft resolution (S/11940) 1/26/1976 Moynihan 9-1,3 (China & Libya not partic.)
Palestine: Situation in Occupied Arab Territories. 5-power draft resolution (S/12022) 3/25/1976 Scranton 14-1,0
Palestine: Report on Committee on Rights of Palestinian People. 4-power draft resolution (S/121119) 6/29/1976 Sherer 10-1,4
Palestine: Palestinian Rights. Tunisian draft resolution. (S/13911) 4/30/1980 McHenry 10-1,4
Palestine: Golan Heights. Jordan draft resolution. (S/14832/Rev. 2) 1/20/1982 Kirkpatrick 9-1,5
Palestine: Situation in Occupied Territories, Jordan draft resolution (S/14943) 4/2/1982 Lichenstein 13-1,1
Palestine: Incident at the Dome of the Rock in Jerusalem. 4-power draft resolution 4/20/1982 Kirpatrick 14-1, 0
Palestine: Conflict in Lebanon. Spain draft resolution. (S/15185) 6/8/1982 Kirpatrick 14-1,0
Palestine: Conflict in Lebanon. France draft resolution. (S/15255/Rev. 2) 6/26/1982 Lichenstein 14-1
Palestine: Conflict in Lebanon. USSR draft resolution. (S/15347/Rev. 1, as orally amended) 8/6/1982 Lichenstein 11-1,3
Palestine: Situation in Occupied Territories, 20-power draft resolution (S/15895) 8/2/1983 Lichenstein 13-1,1



Security Council Vetoes/Negative voting 1983-present
Subject Date Vote
Occupied Arab Territories: Wholesale condemnation of Israeli settlement policies - not adopted 1983
S. Lebanon: Condemns Israeli action in southern Lebanon. S/16732 9/6/1984 Vetoed: 13-1 (U.S.), with 1 abstention (UK)
Occupied Territories: Deplores "repressive measures" by Israel against Arab population. S/19459. 9/13/1985 Vetoed: 10-1 (U.S.), with 4 abstentions (Australia, Denmark, UK, France)
Lebanon: Condemns Israeli practices against civilians in southern Lebanon. S/17000. 3/12/1985 Vetoed: 11-1 (U.S.), with 3 abstentions (Australia, Denmark, UK)
Occupied Territories: Calls upon Israel to respect Muslim holy places. S/17769/Rev. 1 1/30/1986 Vetoed: 13-1 (US), with one abstention (Thailand)
Lebanon: Condemns Israeli practices against civilians in southern Lebanon. S/17730/Rev. 2. 1/17/1986 Vetoed: 11-1 (U.S.), with 3 abstentions (Australia, Denmark, UK)
Libya/Israel: Condemns Israeli interception of Libyan plane. S/17796/Rev. 1. 2/6/1986 Vetoed: 10 -1 (US), with 4 abstentions (Australia, Denmark, France, UK)
Lebanon: Draft strongly deplored repeated Israeli attacks against Lebanese territory and other measures and practices against the civilian population; (S/19434) 1/18/1988 vetoed 13-1 (US), with 1 abstention (UK)
Lebanon: Draft condemned recent invasion by Israeli forces of Southern Lebanon and repeated a call for the immediate withdrawal of all Israeli forces from Lebanese territory; (S/19868) 5/10/1988 vetoed 14-1 (US)
Lebanon: Draft strongly deplored the recent Israeli attack against Lebanese territory on 9 December 1988; (S/20322) 12/14/1988 vetoed 14-1 (US)
Occupied territories: Draft called on Israel to accept de jure applicability of the 4th Geneva Convention; (S/19466) 1988 vetoed 14-1 (US)
Occupied territories: Draft urged Israel to abide by the Fourth Geneva Convention, rescind the order to deport Palestinian civilians, and condemned policies and practices of Israel that violate the human rights of the Palestinian people in the occupied territories; (S/19780) 1988 vetoed 14-1 (US)
Occupied territories: Strongly deplored Israeli policies and practices in the occupied territories, and strongly deplored also Israel's continued disregard of relevant Security Council decisions. 2/17/1989 Vetoed 14-1 (US)
Occupied territories: Condemned Israeli policies and practices in the occupied territories. 6/9/1989 Vetoed 14-1 (US)
Occupied territories: Deplored Israel's policies and practices in the occupied territories. 11/7/1989 Vetoed 14-1 (US)
Occupied territories: NAM draft resolution to create a commission and send three security council members to Rishon Lezion, where an Israeli gunmen shot down seven Palestinian workers. 5/31/1990 Vetoed 14-1 (US)
Middle East: Confirms that the expropriation of land by Israel in East Jerusalem is invalid and in violation of relevant Security Council resolutions and provisions of the Fourth Geneva convention; expresses support of peace process, including the Declaration of Principles of 9/13/1993 5/17/1995 Vetoed 14-1 (US)
Middle East: Calls upon Israeli authorities to refrain from all actions or measures, including settlement activities. 3/7/1997 Vetoed 14-1 (US)
Middle East: Demands that Israel cease construction of the settlement in east Jerusalem (called Jabal Abu Ghneim by the Palestinians and Har Homa by Israel), as well as all the other Israeli settlement activity in the occupied territories
3/21/1997 Vetoed 13-1,1 (US)
Call for UN Observers Force in West Bank, Gaza 3/27/2001 Vetoed 9-1 (US),
with four abstentions
(Britain, France, Ireland and Norway)
Condemned acts of terror, demanded an end to violence and the establishment of a monitoring mechanism to bring in observers. 12/15/2001 Vetoed 12-1 (US)
with two abstentions (Britain and Norway)
On the killing by Israeli forces of several UN employees and the destruction of the World Food Programme (WFP) warehouse
12/20/2002 12-1 (US) with 2 abstentions (Bulgaria and Cameroon)

Demand that Israel halt threats to expel Palestinian leader Yasser Arafat 9/16/03 Vetoed 11-1 (US)
with three abstentions
(Britain, Germany and Bulgaria)
Seeks to bar Israel from extending security fence 10/14/03 Vetoed 10-1 with four absentations (Britain, Germany, Bulgaria and Cameroon)
Condemns Israel for killing Ahmed Yassin 3/25/04 Vetoed 11-1 (US)
with three absentations
(Britain, Germany, Romania




--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Source: U.S. State Department

Yay! The records from the UN. The organization that puts Libya on it's Human Rights Committee and spends valuable time and money focussed only on a small nation of 6 million while the other 6 billion in the world collectively have suffered so much more. Also, where are all the resolutions condemning suicide bombings against innocent Israeli civilians. Hmm, when the Israelis take out Sheik Abdel Aziz Rantisi, a man who planned attacks against civilians, the world cries foul. However, when a Palestian teenager, brainwashed by propaganda froma young age by terrorist militant groups, blows himself up in a crowded mall filled with other children, hardly a cry.

I dont like jews...

this is not based on any religius or racial hate towards them.. not at all

it is based on that i do not like how they run their country...

mouch like u could say that if i had said in 1940 that i didnt like germans.. it would be because i didnt agree with their politics

but the freaking jews and americans are always calling every one who says the slightes thing against jews for racists and god knows what !

iam sure i could be good friends with jews etc. but as souch i dont like them based solely on the facts that i have never met them.. and i have mainly heard crap about them

this crap being that they are ocupying a country and building in it like it was their own !

not to mention they are oppresing more palestinians than there are Israilis

and as souch Israel is not a democrary since there are more people not allowed to vote for the government controling their lives than there are allowed to vote!

I take your point, but I think you need to be careful about assuming people are fascists without proof. (One useful thing about the farcial poll Decisive Action posted on the holocaust, is that he was stupid enough to make the poll public which at least gives us some ideas about people's allegiances. It's certainly confirmed my suspicions about Communist Mississipi). I've seen this before on other forums. People get so jumpy after the arrival of a couple of fash they get over-paranoid and start chucking about allegations. If it starts scaring off genuine new posters then the other side has gained a victory.

What contact did you have with both sides? And did you know many activists in the Israeli Peace Movement?

I worked for most of the time in a hotel owned by Palestinians and managed by an Israeli-American Jew. Once, when a bunch of Zionists who were living on the roof of the hotel got into the habit of blowing the shoffar during Muslim prayer call, we got a visit from a couple of distinguished old gentlemen from a local community group (Hammas), who advised us that the building would have a lower chance of blowing up if we put a stop to this.

Aside from that and from meeting other people who at the very least supported terrorism, on both sides, I did not get involved with any activists.

Susa,
I completely agree. I'm also a christian and the simple answer to your question is this, Israel is hated because they turned their hearts from God. The bible speaks about it all through 2nd Kings. They turned on God, served other Gods and were punished for it. They never went back to him in full through christ. Thats the cause for their troubles.


JeeeeZZZ!!!! Words fail me.

See? :rolleyes: Another one!

You are either totally ignorant of history or else you think that Israel should just grin and bare it when Palestinians attached to bombs murder large numbers of their people. Or maybe you think they should pull out and just sit their when the new Palestinian army tries to invade? Palestinian army? :rolleyes: Israel is a nuclear power using F-16s against stone throwing children.

Palestinians are forced to live in vile refugee camps and watch as the Israeli military destroys houses and bombs crowded markets. Why don't you quote the civilian death counts on both sides?

Israel's acquasition of the West Bank and Gaza Strip were legal because a defending nation can, under international law, annex and keep land necessary for it's self-defense. Without the West Bank, Israel is only a few miles wide between the West Bank and Mediteranean Sea, making it easy for any aggressor nation to easily divide the small and well-despised nation. Israel's occupation of the Golan Heights is illegal since Syria did not attack Israel during the 1967 war. Israel was clearly the aggressor.

Israel's occupation of the Golan Heights is illegal since Syria did not attack Israel during the 1967 war. Israel was clearly the aggressor.

Well Israel occupied the Golan Heights to keep Syria out of the war in a pre-emptive strike. The Syrian army had been sniping and kidnapping Israeli civilians in Israel, making the acquisition of the territory a matter of national security. Also, Israel did not annex the Golan Heights until 1981, 8 years after Syria came so close to overrunning the Israeli army in their invasion.

Palestinian army? :rolleyes: Israel is a nuclear power using F-16s against stone throwing children.

Palestinians are forced to live in vile refugee camps and watch as Israeli bulldozers demolish houses and bomb crowded markets. Why don't you quote the civilian death counts on both sides?

If Israel were to acceed to palestinian demands and totally withdraw, Palestine would attack them... No, not right away. First they would ship in weaponry and new make an official army out of the army of bloodthirty murderers that they now have, and they would have an open-arms policy to "foreign fighters" and al Quieda from all over the world. They would get support from Syria and Iran and from "private" groups all over the Arab world. Then they would attack, and when Israel pushed every one of them that survived back into Jordan and kicked out all the civilians and declared ALL of Palestine ANNEXED they would cry and moan and piss about how unfairly they were treated.

Palestinians, those who are forced, are forced to live in refugee camps by the actions of the terrorists that they allow to live amongst them. Those whose houses are demolished are forced to watch by their own refusal to cooperate in investigations of those terrorists. As far as bulldozers bombing crowded markets... WTF?

Wow. Popular thread.

If Israel were to acceed to palestinian demands and totally withdraw, Palestine would attack them... No, not right away. First they would ship in weaponry and new make an official army out of the army of bloodthirty murderers that they now have, and they would have an open-arms policy to "foreign fighters" and al Quieda from all over the world. They would get support from Syria and Iran and from "private" groups all over the Arab world. Oh please, I don't see any Arab state attacking Israel at the moment. There is no way in hell a future Palestinian government would try anything like that against a nuclear regional power.

Then they would attack, and when Israel pushed every one of them that survived back into Jordan and kicked out all the civilians and declared ALL of Palestine ANNEXED they would cry and moan and piss about how unfairly they were treated. So you support ethnic cleansing then? Wow....

Palestinians, those who are forced, are forced to live in refugee camps by the actions of the terrorists that they allow to live amongst them. Those whose houses are demolished are forced to watch by their own refusal to cooperate in investigations of those terrorists. Oh please :rolleyes: Should the entire population of the US be responsible for the actions of certain government individuals? No...

Palestinians youths are growing up in poverty and living under occupation. When a fanatical cleric comes along shouting anti-Israel slogans, of course that youth is going to be impressed and take up their cause. Terrorism grows from instability and despair. Israel needs to address the cause of the problem if it ever wants to cease Palestinian terrorism.

Besides, the Israelis themselves have used terrorism in the past to achieve certain objectives. Israel was founded by Zionist terrorists ffs.

Oh please, I don't see any Arab state attacking Israel at the moment. There is no way in hell a future Palestinian government would try anything like that against a nuclear regional power.

So you support ethnic cleansing then? Wow....

Oh please :rolleyes: Should the entire population of the US be responsible for the actions of certain government individuals? No...

Palestinians youths are growing up in poverty and living under occupation. When a fanatical cleric comes along shouting anti-Israel slogans, of course that youth is going to be impressed and take up their cause. Terrorism grows from instability and despair. Israel needs to address the cause of the problem if it ever wants to cease Palestinian terrorism.

Besides, the Israelis themselves have used terrorism in the past to achieve certain objectives. Israel was founded by Zionist terrorists ffs.

The roots of Israel were actually first planted by Jewish European Socialists with funding from wealthy Jewish European bankers in the late 19th century (I guess religion takes precedent over ideology,) not the moderate and radical Jewish resistance groups pre-Modern Israel

Well Israel occupied the Golan Heights to keep Syria out of the war in a pre-emptive strike. The Syrian army had been sniping and kidnapping Israeli civilians in Israel, making the acquisition of the territory a matter of national security. Also, Israel did not annex the Golan Heights until 1981, 8 years after Syria came so close to overrunning the Israeli army in their invasion. That is simply not true.

The 1967 Six Day war was basically over until the Israelis opened up a new front against the Syrians in an attempt to annex the Golan Heights. They had captured the West Bank from Jordan and decided to continue their military offensive by attacking Syria despite the fact the Syrians had been careful not to enter the war when Israel was attacking Egypt and Jordan.

The Arabs were defeated before the Israeli Golan offensive. It was no pre-emptive strike.

not the moderate and radical Jewish resistance groups pre-Modern Israel The King David Hotel bombing and the slaughter of Palestinian villagers were acts of 'resistance'?

:rolleyes:

I guess Al Qaeda is a 'resistance' group then aswell.

That is simply not true.

The 1967 Six Day war was basically over until the Israelis opened up a new front against the Syrians in an attempt to annex the Golan Heights. They had captured the West Bank from Jordan and decided to continue their military offensive by attacking Syria despite the fact the Syrians had been careful not to enter the war when Israel was attacking Egypt and Jordan.

The Arabs were defeated before the Israeli Golan offensive. It was no pre-emptive strike.

Unfourtunately, as early as 1964, Syria began it's efforts to divert water from Israel to Jordan (an act of war under International Law,) and without the courageous work of executed spy Eli Cohen, the water diversion plans could have been successful. Also, border tensions before the Six-Day war had risen to a boiling point, as Syrian shelling of Israel's north led to an arial confrontation which resulted in the loss of 7 Syrian fighters only weeks before Egypt invaded Israel. Clearly, sniping and shelling of an independent nation should be considered an act of war.

The King David Hotel bombing and the slaughter of Palestinian villagers were acts of 'resistance'?

:rolleyes:

I guess Al Qaeda is a 'resistance' group then aswell.

Those were the radical groups, who you correctly labeled terrorists. But most violent groups limited their attacks to Arab and British soldiers, and infrastructure used in their fight to supress the Israeli independence movement

Oh please, I don't see any Arab state attacking Israel at the moment. There is no way in hell a future Palestinian government would try anything like that against a nuclear regional power.

Yeah... they'd probaby wait until they got nukes of their own, too. They already know how to strap bombs to themselves so I would not be at all surprised if they already have plans for briefcase nukes.

So you support ethnic cleansing then? Wow....

Do I support death camps and rape squads? No. I do support a nation's right to keep any lands that it has claimed in a war to defend its own existence, and I support their right to expel undesireable aliens.

Oh please :rolleyes: Should the entire population of the US be responsible for the actions of certain government individuals? No...

No of course not. That's only fair when it's done to Israel.

Palestinians youths are growing up in poverty and living under occupation. When a fanatical cleric comes along shouting anti-Israel slogans, of course that youth is going to be impressed and take up their cause. Terrorism grows from instability and despair. Israel needs to address the cause of the problem if it ever wants to cease Palestinian terrorism.

Of course it's all Israel's responsibility. No onus on the Palestinians to teach their kids that if they die commiting murder they will go to HELL, not to Heaven, and no one can expect them to turn against the murderers who claim to speak for them. Israel needs to cease palestinian terrorism, since it's obviously not the Palestinians' responsibility to do so. After all they are just poor little victims who never did anything to deserve this.

Besides, the Israelis themselves have used terrorism in the past to achieve certain objectives. Israel was founded by Zionist terrorists ffs.

Yeah, history is full of all kinds of rough shit, and no one is innocent. But tell me, when did Israel ever strap a bomb to someone and send him onto a bus full of civilians to blow it up?

Yeah... they'd probaby wait until they got nukes of their own, too. They already know how to strap bombs to themselves so I would not be at all surprised if they already have plans for briefcase nukes. The Arabs have no chance of defeating Israel in a military conflict. The Arab states have all become weaker while Israel has become stronger.

You really are delusional if you think Israel is still under threat from the Arab states.


Do I support death camps and rape squads? No. I do support a nation's right to keep any lands that it has claimed in a war to defend its own existence, and I support their right to expel undesireable aliens. These people are not aliens. It is their land too.

Refugee camps are basically death camps anyway.



No of course not. That's only fair when it's done to Israel. Yet you claim every Palestinian should suffer because of a few HAMAS extremists.



Of course it's all Israel's responsibility. No onus on the Palestinians to teach their kids that if they die commiting murder they will go to HELL, not to Heaven, and no one can expect them to turn against the murderers who claim to speak for them. Israel needs to cease palestinian terrorism, since it's obviously not the Palestinians' responsibility to do so. After all they are just poor little victims who never did anything to deserve this. So all Palestinians are murderers now?

Arafat's government has no control over the Palestinian territories. I think everybody knows that. There is no effective government in either the West Bank or Gaza.



Yeah, history is full of all kinds of rough shit, and no one is innocent. But tell me, when did Israel ever strap a bomb to someone and send him onto a bus full of civilians to blow it up? No, they just drove cars filled with explosives under a Western hotel and blew it up. Those same people became key members in the original Israeli leadership.

The Arabs have no chance of defeating Israel in a military conflict. The Arab states have all become weaker while Israel has become stronger.

You really are delusional if you think Israel is still under threat from the Arab states.


These people are not aliens. It is their land too.

Refugee camps are basically death camps anyway.



Yet you claim every Palestinian should suffer because of a few HAMAS extremists.



So all Palestinians are murderers now?

Arafat's government has no control over the Palestinian territories. I think everybody knows that. There is no effective government in either the West Bank or Gaza.



No, they just drove cars filled with explosives under a Western hotel and blew it up. Those same people became key members in the original Israeli leadership.



"You really are delusional if you think Israel is still under threat from the Arab states."

Syria's pursuit of chemical weapons and Iran's pursuit of nuclear weapons sure are frightening


"These people are not aliens. It is their land too.

Refugee camps are basically death camps anyway."

Hence the disengagement plan. The Palestinians keep all of the Gaza Strip, and 89% of the West Bank, with the 11% going to the Israelis having population made up of 75% Jews. And the refugee camps cannot be death camps considering how the refugee population has skyrocketed from 1.5 million to the highest estimates of 7 million.


"Yet you claim every Palestinian should suffer because of a few HAMAS extremists."

Palestinians have the choice to teach their children not to hate every single Jew, and while blanket curfews seem harsh, so are the intentional murders of Israeli civilians trying to live their lives


"Arafat's government has no control over the Palestinian territories. I think everybody knows that. There is no effective government in either the West Bank or Gaza."

That is true, but who's fault is that? The Palestinian Authority had their chance to crack down on terror, and they didn't, so now it's the Israeli's turn.


"No, they just drove cars filled with explosives under a Western hotel and blew it up. Those same people became key members in the original Israeli leadership."

That was 60 years ago. And because Israel is a democracy, those leaders who served their nation very well were replaced by other Prime Ministers

OK ok I will treat his arguments as if they were worth half a wet turd:



U.S. Vetoes of UN Resolutions Critical of Israel
(1972-2004)

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Vetoes: 1972-1982
Subject Date & Meeting US Rep Casting Veto Vote
Palestine: Syrian-Lebanese Complaint. 3 power draft resolution 2/10784 9/10/1972 Bush 13-1, 1
Palestine: Examination of Middle East Situation. 8-power draft resolution (S/10974) 7/2/1973 Scali 13-1, 0 (China not partic.)
Palestine: Egyptian-Lebanese Complaint. 5-power draft power resolution (S/11898) 12/8/1975 Moynihan 13-1, 1
Palestine: Middle East Problem, including Palestinian question. 6-power draft resolution (S/11940) 1/26/1976 Moynihan 9-1,3 (China & Libya not partic.)
Palestine: Situation in Occupied Arab Territories. 5-power draft resolution (S/12022) 3/25/1976 Scranton 14-1,0
Palestine: Report on Committee on Rights of Palestinian People. 4-power draft resolution (S/121119) 6/29/1976 Sherer 10-1,4
Palestine: Palestinian Rights. Tunisian draft resolution. (S/13911) 4/30/1980 McHenry 10-1,4
Palestine: Golan Heights. Jordan draft resolution. (S/14832/Rev. 2) 1/20/1982 Kirkpatrick 9-1,5
Palestine: Situation in Occupied Territories, Jordan draft resolution (S/14943) 4/2/1982 Lichenstein 13-1,1
Palestine: Incident at the Dome of the Rock in Jerusalem. 4-power draft resolution 4/20/1982 Kirpatrick 14-1, 0
Palestine: Conflict in Lebanon. Spain draft resolution. (S/15185) 6/8/1982 Kirpatrick 14-1,0
Palestine: Conflict in Lebanon. France draft resolution. (S/15255/Rev. 2) 6/26/1982 Lichenstein 14-1
Palestine: Conflict in Lebanon. USSR draft resolution. (S/15347/Rev. 1, as orally amended) 8/6/1982 Lichenstein 11-1,3
Palestine: Situation in Occupied Territories, 20-power draft resolution (S/15895) 8/2/1983 Lichenstein 13-1,1



Security Council Vetoes/Negative voting 1983-present
Subject Date Vote
Occupied Arab Territories: Wholesale condemnation of Israeli settlement policies - not adopted 1983
S. Lebanon: Condemns Israeli action in southern Lebanon. S/16732 9/6/1984 Vetoed: 13-1 (U.S.), with 1 abstention (UK)
Occupied Territories: Deplores "repressive measures" by Israel against Arab population. S/19459. 9/13/1985 Vetoed: 10-1 (U.S.), with 4 abstentions (Australia, Denmark, UK, France)
Lebanon: Condemns Israeli practices against civilians in southern Lebanon. S/17000. 3/12/1985 Vetoed: 11-1 (U.S.), with 3 abstentions (Australia, Denmark, UK)
Occupied Territories: Calls upon Israel to respect Muslim holy places. S/17769/Rev. 1 1/30/1986 Vetoed: 13-1 (US), with one abstention (Thailand)
Lebanon: Condemns Israeli practices against civilians in southern Lebanon. S/17730/Rev. 2. 1/17/1986 Vetoed: 11-1 (U.S.), with 3 abstentions (Australia, Denmark, UK)
Libya/Israel: Condemns Israeli interception of Libyan plane. S/17796/Rev. 1. 2/6/1986 Vetoed: 10 -1 (US), with 4 abstentions (Australia, Denmark, France, UK)
Lebanon: Draft strongly deplored repeated Israeli attacks against Lebanese territory and other measures and practices against the civilian population; (S/19434) 1/18/1988 vetoed 13-1 (US), with 1 abstention (UK)
Lebanon: Draft condemned recent invasion by Israeli forces of Southern Lebanon and repeated a call for the immediate withdrawal of all Israeli forces from Lebanese territory; (S/19868) 5/10/1988 vetoed 14-1 (US)
Lebanon: Draft strongly deplored the recent Israeli attack against Lebanese territory on 9 December 1988; (S/20322) 12/14/1988 vetoed 14-1 (US)
Occupied territories: Draft called on Israel to accept de jure applicability of the 4th Geneva Convention; (S/19466) 1988 vetoed 14-1 (US)
Occupied territories: Draft urged Israel to abide by the Fourth Geneva Convention, rescind the order to deport Palestinian civilians, and condemned policies and practices of Israel that violate the human rights of the Palestinian people in the occupied territories; (S/19780) 1988 vetoed 14-1 (US)
Occupied territories: Strongly deplored Israeli policies and practices in the occupied territories, and strongly deplored also Israel's continued disregard of relevant Security Council decisions. 2/17/1989 Vetoed 14-1 (US)
Occupied territories: Condemned Israeli policies and practices in the occupied territories. 6/9/1989 Vetoed 14-1 (US)
Occupied territories: Deplored Israel's policies and practices in the occupied territories. 11/7/1989 Vetoed 14-1 (US)
Occupied territories: NAM draft resolution to create a commission and send three security council members to Rishon Lezion, where an Israeli gunmen shot down seven Palestinian workers. 5/31/1990 Vetoed 14-1 (US)
Middle East: Confirms that the expropriation of land by Israel in East Jerusalem is invalid and in violation of relevant Security Council resolutions and provisions of the Fourth Geneva convention; expresses support of peace process, including the Declaration of Principles of 9/13/1993 5/17/1995 Vetoed 14-1 (US)
Middle East: Calls upon Israeli authorities to refrain from all actions or measures, including settlement activities. 3/7/1997 Vetoed 14-1 (US)
Middle East: Demands that Israel cease construction of the settlement in east Jerusalem (called Jabal Abu Ghneim by the Palestinians and Har Homa by Israel), as well as all the other Israeli settlement activity in the occupied territories
3/21/1997 Vetoed 13-1,1 (US)
Call for UN Observers Force in West Bank, Gaza 3/27/2001 Vetoed 9-1 (US),
with four abstentions
(Britain, France, Ireland and Norway)
Condemned acts of terror, demanded an end to violence and the establishment of a monitoring mechanism to bring in observers. 12/15/2001 Vetoed 12-1 (US)
with two abstentions (Britain and Norway)
On the killing by Israeli forces of several UN employees and the destruction of the World Food Programme (WFP) warehouse
12/20/2002 12-1 (US) with 2 abstentions (Bulgaria and Cameroon)

Demand that Israel halt threats to expel Palestinian leader Yasser Arafat 9/16/03 Vetoed 11-1 (US)
with three abstentions
(Britain, Germany and Bulgaria)
Seeks to bar Israel from extending security fence 10/14/03 Vetoed 10-1 with four absentations (Britain, Germany, Bulgaria and Cameroon)
Condemns Israel for killing Ahmed Yassin 3/25/04 Vetoed 11-1 (US)
with three absentations
(Britain, Germany, Romania




--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Source: U.S. State Department

ERM- not entirely sure why you have posted this, because you seem to me pro-israeli, and all that these statistics show is that the majority of the World (represented by the majorities that apporve these resolutions) disapprove of Israeli actions, whilst the USA is the only nation that refuses to punish them (there are frequent British abstentions- these would solely be to avoid too much controversy- after all, we have to pretend to have some respect for Israel). Isnt it also Ironic, that Iran is placed on the "axis of evil" list, for continuing to pursue nuclear weapons, whilst Israel is protected and funded by the USA, and already has nuclear weapons?! Why such disparity? Surely this is a major reason for hatred directed to America and Israel- there is a complete inconsistency in American Foreign Policy- a nation that they see as beneficial they support in their creation of nuclear weapons, whereas a nation that has different (frankly better for society) values is discouraged, and threatened with sanctions.

God Bless America....And can He also make the Israelis Fuck off at the same time please?

Now, I haven't read all the thread, just the first page in fact, but on the first page there was a post that caught my attention. It read:

"I completely agree. I'm also a christian and the simple answer to your question is this, Israel is hated because they turned their hearts from God. The bible speaks about it all through 2nd Kings. They turned on God, served other Gods and were punished for it. They never went back to him in full through christ. Thats the cause for their troubles."

I am also Christian, but, although I respect your views, the 'turning their hearts from God' point as absolute nonsense (in my view at least). If you would remember, their religion was founded centuries before ours. Their troubles have nothing to do with what supposedly happend several millenia ago. It's either to do with, as often stated, anti-semitism, which is just many humans making the wrong choice. Or it was caused by the conflict between Israel and the Palestinians.

I hope this doesn't sound too flamey, there is no offence intended.

http://assemblyoftrueisrael.com/Documents/WordsandtermsintheScriptures.html#j

Jew, Jews, Jewish (modern and erroneous usage of the word in many English Bibles)

Generally speaking, a Jew is a person named after his/her religion called Jew-ism or Jew-dah-ism, as a Christian is named after his/her religion called Christianity. The word Jew is not found in the Hebrew, Aramaic, or Greek texts of the Sacred Scriptures, but in many English Bibles the word Jew has become associated with a rendering of the Latin word Judaeus, which was a translation of the Greek word Ioudaios, the Aramaic word Yahudain, and the Hebrew word Yahudah. Although not found in either the Hebrew, Aramaic or the Greek Scriptures, the word Jew is an incorrect English rendering most often translated from the Latin word Judaeus, a Latin translation of the Hebrew word Yahudah. As translated, it is referring to one of the tribes of Israel (Yisrael) named after one of the 12 sons of Jacob. The word Jews, the plural of the word Jew,(Jews) is incorrectly translated most often from the word Hebrew Yahudi, descendants of the tribe named after Yahudah. It must be noted, that the letter 'J' was not in general use until after the 16th century as is now used in many English Bibles to form the incorrect word 'Jew.' In some English Bibles we have received from the translators, the word Juda. This is also an error in translation because the word derives from the Greek Iudaios, which in the English would be Judaios. Judaios was none other then a Greek pagan diety (see W.H. Roscher's lexicon of mythology).

Note: As examples, the following words have been "transliterated" from the Hebrew, Aramaic, or Greek, that is, the letters forming the original word have been place into English letters, so when pronounced in the English, the word will closely represent the sound of the original word as found in the language of the Sacred Scriptures.



Yahud (Aramaic) = corresponding to the Ancient Southern Kingdom and land area named after Yahudah a son of Jacob/Israel, - (incorrectly translated as Judea, or Judah in many English Bibles).

Yahudain, Yahudean, Yahudyn, (like sounding) or Yahudim (Aramaic) = an inhabitant (of any race) living in the Southern Kingdom of Yahud, - (incorrectly translated as Jews, or sometimes Judeans, in many English Bibles). )

Yahudah (Hebrew) = "praised" a son of Jacob/Israel, or his descendants, - (incorrectly translated as Judah, Judah(s), Jew(s) in many English Bibles). )

Yahudi or Yahudy (like sounding) (Hebrew) = plural form of Yahudah, or descendants of, or pertaining to Yahudah, - (incorrectly translated as Jews, Jewish, or Judeans in many English Bibles).

Iouda, or Ioudas (Greek) = Yahudah (Hebrew) a son of Jacob/Israel, or his descendants, the Southern Kingdom - (incorrectly translated as Judah, Judas, Jude, Jew or Jews, or the Southern Kingdom of Yahud in many English Bibles).

Ioudaios (Greek) from Iouda = Yahudain, Yahud (Hebrew) context determines form, see above - (incorrectly translated Jew(s), Jewish, Judea in many English Bibles).

Ioudaismos (Greek) = reference to the religion of the Yahudi, - (Incorrectly translated as Judaism in many English Bibles (from Jew-dah-ism, or Jew-ism).

As used in the Scriptures, the word 'Jew' is sometimes translated to refer to a Yahudain a native or inhabitant (which would include many diverse races and people groups) who were living in the region of Yahud, As the word 'American' includes many diverse peoples living in the Country called 'America'. The word most often refers to an advocate or an adherent to the religion of the Yahudi. In some cases it may refer to a literal descendant of Abraham, Issac, Jacob/Israel, one of the descent of the tribe of Yahudah, but this would be very rare.

Modern Jews are divided into two primary groups, the Ashkenazi Khazar Jew and the Sephardim (or Sephardic Jew). There is a great difference between these groups. They are not one united people. They are divided socially, politically and racially. See Jew Ashkenazi, See Jew Sephardim.

In present day generic usage, the word Jew has no relationship to the Hebrew or the Greek translated word 'Jew' where used in the Old or New Covenant Scriptures. The word is associated primarily to one as an adherent or advocate of Jew-ism the religion of the Jews, but not through ethnics or race. Basically, a Jew is anyone who decides to call himself/herself a Jew.

Within Jewish Circles, there are two other official ways one can become a Jew. One can be born from a mother who calls herself a Jew, or one can 'convert' to become a Jew. (A convert is called a Ger which literally means stranger). Being born a Jew is pretty simple. If one's mother is Jewish (of the Jew-ism religion) then he/she is considered a Jew, if one's mother is not of the Jew-ism religion, then neither is the child officially a Jew. (It doesn't matter what race the father is).

Modern Jew-ism as a religion began about 1000 BCE, and is traced to Rabbenu Gershon of Mainz, Germany, considered the 'Father' of the Ashkenazi Jews. Ashkenazi Jews constitute approximately 90% of all the worlds approximately fourteen million Jews. Modern Jew-ism is not the Scriptural worship system of the Hebrew Yahudi (of the tribe of Yahudah).

Jews do not actively encourage conversion; to a large degree they discourage it. This is the reason Jews have never had missionaries trying to convert non-Jews. They want the convert but the convert must be 100% committed to being a Jew. Discouraging conversion helps to filter out those 'lacking the proper degree' of commitment. Jew-ism is strongly Anti-Christian.

If the non-Jew still wants to become a Jew, the male is circumcised. After he is healed, he immerses himself in a mikva. A mikva is a special pool of water which is used for many religious purposes in the cult of Jew-ism. (It must be made according to very specific rules). A female convert only has to immerse herself.

The term 'Jew', has come to be used synonymous with the term 'Israel, or Israelite', however, this is error. Scriptural "Yisraelites," the collective descendants of the 12 tribes of Jacob/Israel (the Northern Kingdom) were never called Jews. Modern Jews are not of the tribe of Yahudah, and are not a part of the Yisraelites of the Scriptures. They take the name Jew because the name is in the name of their religion i.e. Jew-ism. Jews have deceived may Christians into thinking that Jew-ism is a continuance of the Scriptural worship system of Jacob/Yisrael, but it is not.

Jew-ism, (modern Jew-ism, Jew-dah-ism)


Jew-ism, is a cultic (ritual-istic) religion which originated approximately 1000 CE, and is traced to Rabbenu Gershon a Khazar/Jew of Mainz Germany through the publishing of his 'halachic creativity' (interpretation of Old Covenant laws), he thereby established the beginning of the modern cultic religion of Jew-ism. Today the religion is also greatly influenced by the Babylonian Talmud, an ancient Pagan ritual-istic system of various extreme opinions, interpretations, codes, rules, and regulations.

The modern cultic religion of Jew-ism has nothing in common with the Scriptural sacrificial worship system which was completely destroyed by Yahshua the Messiah of Yisrael in 70 CE, at the destruction of Yerushalayim (Jerusalem) Herod's Edomite Temple. Yahshua then completely established the New Covenant. Christianity is the religious system of Faith which replaced the ancient Cultic (ritual-istic) sacrificial worship system of Yisrael, and the Yahudi.

Since I know the whole Anti-Semite thing will come up again...

Anti-Semite


The term literally means "against Semites". The word Semite originates from one of the three sons of Noah, who was called Shem. A Semite then, is a descendent from Noah's son Shem. Shem was the father of Arpachshad, who was the father of Shelah, who was the father of Eber (the father of the Hebrews), who was an ancestor of Abram/Abraham, who was the father of Isaac, who was the father of Jacob/Israel. Anti-semitism is a phrase coined by Jews as a "catch-all" to indicate racism (against Jews). However, 95% of all Jews are not descendants from Noah's son Shem, so the term is miss-applied. Semites include Arabic and European Israelites (Caucasions). The phrase is incorrectly applied when used as opposition to Jews, because most Jews are not descendants of Shem, but of Ashkenaz, who was the son of Gomer, who was the son of Japheth, who was a son of Noah. See Jew, Ashkenazi

I also did not read the whole topic. I'm to blame for that. Then again, I know so well what to expect.
The original posting however, if I remember correctly, was the lack of support the Israeli team got on the opening ceremony. Well there's no arguing with the crowd's voice I guess. It does make me wonder though where the big cheer for the Iraqi team came from. Hooray the bombed ones? The "liberated" ones? In the end, it all comes down to the "underdog" position.
The Israeli's are not an underdog. They simply can't afford to be. I don't care if the Greek (and other) crowd don't cheer the Israeli team. I just think the Olympics are beautiful, just because all these different nationalities compete each other, regardless of their origin. Humanity at its best!

Let's keep it sportive. Anyone who doesn't, clearly states their narrow-mindedness. We were all born and we're all going to die. If, in the process between the two events, you are going to prevent someone else from fulfilling their own destiny, you are a criminal. Period.
Live and let live. I wish anyone else alive now to have a fruitful, meaningful life. Honestly.

Since I know the whole Anti-Semite thing will come up again...

Anti-Semite


The term literally means "against Semites". The word Semite originates from one of the three sons of Noah, who was called Shem. A Semite then, is a descendent from Noah's son Shem. Shem was the father of Arpachshad, who was the father of Shelah, who was the father of Eber (the father of the Hebrews), who was an ancestor of Abram/Abraham, who was the father of Isaac, who was the father of Jacob/Israel. Anti-semitism is a phrase coined by Jews as a "catch-all" to indicate racism (against Jews). However, 95% of all Jews are not descendants from Noah's son Shem, so the term is miss-applied. Semites include Arabic and European Israelites (Caucasions). The phrase is incorrectly applied when used as opposition to Jews, because most Jews are not descendants of Shem, but of Ashkenaz, who was the son of Gomer, who was the son of Japheth, who was a son of Noah. See Jew, Ashkenazi

From http://dictionary.reference.com :

Ash·ke·naz·i ( P ) Pronunciation Key (äshk-näz)
n. pl. Ash·ke·naz·im (-nzm, -näzm)
A member of the branch of European Jews, historically Yiddish-speaking, who settled in central and northern Europe.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

[Medieval Hebrew ’aknzî, from ’aknaz, Germany, adoption of Hebrew ’aknaz, name of one of Noah's grandsons and of a neighboring people, perhaps alteration of earlier *’akûz, Scythians; akin to Akkadian aguzai, ikuzai, from Old Persian Saka-, Ska-.]

Guess what, genius? Ashkenazi Jews are named from the Hebrew word for "German". This idea that you have that they are not a semetic people, that they are descended not from Shem but from Japheth, is actually true in as much as they intermarried with germanic and other european people.

Oh wait... now I get it... the Jews are so evil because of all that White blood :rolleyes:

Hey now wasn't one of your clone-mates saying that the Jews were not Israelites because they messed around with the Canaanites? And that the true Israelites, the "Alglo-Isrealites", were brought up from Babylon to the Caucuses where they were absorbed by the... Angles?

1/3 of the Hebrew Patriarchs had hamitic mothers, btw, so I guess a lot of even the first Israelites weren't Semites, right? But some of those who went to Europe became Japhethites, and the others, the ones that according to you, did NOT keep the sabbath and did NOT keep Pasach and Yom Kippur and did NOT keep kosher, somehow remained Jews?

You should sue your momma for home schooling you, boy. She didn't even manage to impart basic reasoning skills, now did she?

ERM- not entirely sure why you have posted this, because you seem to me pro-israeli, and all that these statistics show is that the majority of the World (represented by the majorities that apporve these resolutions) disapprove of Israeli actions, whilst the USA is the only nation that refuses to punish them (there are frequent British abstentions- these would solely be to avoid too much controversy- after all, we have to pretend to have some respect for Israel). Isnt it also Ironic, that Iran is placed on the "axis of evil" list, for continuing to pursue nuclear weapons, whilst Israel is protected and funded by the USA, and already has nuclear weapons?! Why such disparity? Surely this is a major reason for hatred directed to America and Israel- there is a complete inconsistency in American Foreign Policy- a nation that they see as beneficial they support in their creation of nuclear weapons, whereas a nation that has different (frankly better for society) values is discouraged, and threatened with sanctions.

God Bless America....And can He also make the Israelis Fuck off at the same time please?

I was replying to a post by the very short-lived clone named OrionOrbit, who claimed that even the government that I "elected" must have some problems with Israel's policies because of the list of U.N.resolutions that another clone had provided that had passed without a successful U.S. veto. I provided a list of resolutions that the U.S. had successfully vetoed.

You seem to take the large number of U.N. resolutions against Israel as evidence of their guilt. I on the other hand look also at the relative lack of resolutions against Palestine and other nations that support terrorism and I conclude that this proves how very biased the U.N. is.

I was replying to a post by the very short-lived clone named OrionOrbit, who claimed that even the government that I "elected" must have some problems with Israel's policies because of the list of U.N.resolutions that another clone had provided that had passed without a successful U.S. veto. I provided a list of resolutions that the U.S. had successfully vetoed.

You seem to take the large number of U.N. resolutions against Israel as evidence of their guilt. I on the other hand look also at the relative lack of resolutions against Palestine and other nations that support terrorism and I conclude that this proves how very biased the U.N. is.

The UN can only be biased if the vast majority of nations that compose it have a certain opinion. That opinion is, that Israel is in the wrong, and should not continue with its aggressive, land-grabbing policies (ahem the illegal wall, construction of more Israeli settlements, even since AFTER teh "roadmap" was approved, which forbids the construction of these). The only reason that Israel is allowed to do what it does is because the USA will veto any resolution that seeks to punish Israel- they allow the ones that "strongly condemn", but do nothing. Say the EU were to table a resolution asking for Israeli sanctions (I know that theEU doesnt have one specific seat, but the EU member-states nearly always all endorse the same plan). China, Russia, Britain and France (obviously in the EU) would vote for this, as they all see that Israel is becoming too greedy and unilateral. However, in pops the USA, and BANG, there goes any chance of disciplining Israel.

I have an analogy. Imagine you have a child, and that child steals lots of another childs toys, leaving them with very few (this is the Israeli state being formed in the 1940s- your child is Israel, the other is Palestine). Now the other child isnt very happy- he liked those toys, you stole the best ones. So he asks a few of his friends to help him to get them back. They bitchslap you for a while, but suddenly, your big brother comes in, gives you a tank, and you blow them all to hell. Now these children, and all the other children in the playroom (this is the UN) get upset, and ask for you to be punished. All of the little children sit around a big table, and then suddenly, your teenage brother appears, this time with more tanks, and says that you have done nothing wrong. Who could ever possibly challenge this? Meanwhile, you grow up to be a bully- if anyone tries to stop you from stealing more toys, or attempting to get nuclear weapons (cant think of a childhood analogy for these, sorry), then your big brother comes along and stops them. You grow up to be the bully, the nation that is hated, and feared by those around you, whilst you yearn for more and more, and whilst your brother continues to sponsor you.

It made me sick, watching the Olympic opening ceremony, seeing the Israeli Olympic team marching in, it was so beautiful, but for a moment, I was so angry that those men and women were so hated. It is so awful. They got absolutely no applause. They came after Spain, who got a huge round of applause, and when Spain had marched by, and the noise died down, it did not get any louder when Israel came in. No one cheered. It was sickening. The fu***n United Arab Emirates team got more damn applause. The UAE had 3 frickin athletes. It made me sick. Anti-semitism has got to be one of the worst things ever. As a Christian and an American, I am appalled, and I hope to god those athletes are safe through this Olympic games and beyond. God protect them, becuase no one knows what crazy Islamic fundementalist or neo-nazi is going to try to kill them.

You see that's the problem with the world today. not applauding Isreal does not mean you ANTI-SEMITIC!!!!! for god sake when are people going to separate the 2!!!
People went mad for the cyprus team from what I saw. So what do people love Orthodox chrisitians.
The UAE got applause! people must love muslims now!! yeah!

From what i remember about the olympics people have always done this when they disagree with the teams country's policies.

http://www.kahane.org/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.cgi?board=Unedited;action=display;num=1066526872

http://www.kahane.org/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.cgi?board=Unedited;action=display;num=1065892477

And on that site was a poster who said he wanted all American Christians killed by Osama bin Lardan. And yes, I am serious.

How dishonest can you get? Meir Kahane has been called a "Jewish Hitler", by OTHER JEWS. He started the JDL, Kahane Chai, and Kach, a political party in Israel which was BANNED for being racist against Arabs.

The ADL has a huge file on the JDL and their bigotry and insanity, all availble here: http://www.adl.org/extremism/jdl_chron.asp

Trying to represent posters on "Kahane.org" as being representative of mainstream Judaism is like saying the KKK represents mainstream Christianity.

Or, to put it another way- simply because the KKK hates one group of people doesn't mean all Christians do.

The JDL- along with Kach and Kahane Chai- are the closest thing you'll get to a Jewish KKK. Period.

although i disagree with alot of what Isreal has done.
At least they are now attempting to go ahead with the land for peace policy, or whatever it is being called now. Whether it succeeds, i do not know, but at least if offers a slight bit of hope.

People are mostly unimpressed by their lack of respect for international law seizing lands during cease fires in the first arab-israeli war establishing new settlements in what is palastinian,their hero from their wars was a pirate who wore an eye patch their building a wall on palastinian land and you wonder why people hate them!

How dishonest can you get? Meir Kahane has been called a "Jewish Hitler", by OTHER JEWS. He started the JDL, Kahane Chai, and Kach, a political party in Israel which was BANNED for being racist against Arabs.

The ADL has a huge file on the JDL and their bigotry and insanity, all availble here: http://www.adl.org/extremism/jdl_chron.asp

Trying to represent posters on "Kahane.org" as being representative of mainstream Judaism is like saying the KKK represents mainstream Christianity.

Or, to put it another way- simply because the KKK hates one group of people doesn't mean all Christians do.

The JDL- along with Kach and Kahane Chai- are the closest thing you'll get to a Jewish KKK. Period.The JDL are scum, and entirely unrepresentive of the Jewish people. The ADL are not a legitimate source however, considering the fact they've spied on leftist groups up to and including liberal Jews. http://www.foodnotbombs.net/adl_examiner.html

People are mostly unimpressed by their lack of respect for international law seizing lands during cease fires in the first arab-israeli war establishing new settlements in what is palastinian,their hero from their wars was a pirate who wore an eye patch their building a wall on palastinian land and you wonder why people hate them!

The first arab-Israeli war was in 1947-48. cease-fires then were forced- none of the sides wanted to stop, as the newly established country wanted to seize lands, and the arabs wanted to destroy it. "Cease fires" such as that are rather useless. "Their hero from their wars"? Moshe Dayan, the "pirate" you were talking about, brilliantly handled one war. Israel had much more than one war. He wore an eye-patch because he lost his eye in one of the wars. I assume you wouldn't like to see what's under the eye-patch, now would you?
The wall prevents terroracts. That's what it's built for- not for protecting poor palestinians or improving Israel's image in the world. It's being built to prevent terroracts inside Israel, and you know what? It does its job pretty darn well.

Palestinians, those who are forced, are forced to live in refugee camps by the actions of the terrorists that they allow to live amongst them. Those whose houses are demolished are forced to watch by their own refusal to cooperate in investigations of those terrorists.

Oh please :rolleyes: Should the entire population of the US be responsible for the actions of certain government individuals? No...

Well, let's try and hold the same standards for everyone here: should the entire ISRAELI population be held responsible for the actions of some of THEIR government officials? Should Israelis living inside the Green Line suffer for what the IDF does? Or some settlers? Similarly, should settler CHILDREN, who have no control over where they were born or where their parents choose to live, be held responsible for "occupying" Palestinian land?

None of these are particularly "easy" questions.

Palestinians youths are growing up in poverty and living under occupation. When a fanatical cleric comes along shouting anti-Israel slogans, of course that youth is going to be impressed and take up their cause.

And that is why I UNDERSTAND the mindset of Hamas, Islamic Jihad, etc. But understanding something is different from condoning it. I similarly "understand" the mindset of the radical Israeli settlers, including the man who assassinated Yitzhak Rabin. I certainly do not condone THEIR actions.

Terrorism grows from instability and despair. Israel needs to address the cause of the problem if it ever wants to cease Palestinian terrorism.

So what would you suggest Israel do? If you were Sharon, what would be your first move?

Besides, the Israelis themselves have used terrorism in the past to achieve certain objectives. Israel was founded by Zionist terrorists

First,are you suggesting that simply because Israel (and America, for that matter) were created by former terrorists that this means terrorism is OK?

Second, you are incorrect in your statement. Here's some background: Israel was founded by the Jewish Agency, the legitimate leaders of the Jewish community in Palestine ("Yishuv"). This included many men who had FORMERLY been involved with the Haganah, the left-wing Zionist militia. The Haganah engaged in some terrorist activity, more so in its earlier years, but was strictly governed by the "havgalah" principle as established by the Yishuv leaders. This from Ehud Sprinzak's "Brother Against Brother":

The 1936 of the great Arab revolt, which brought massive terrorism to the small Jewish community in Palestine, forced all Jewish defense organizations to respond. Thjough public sentiment grew for a retributive response against Arab terrorism, the political leaders of Haganah continued to pursue a policy of self-restraint. This stance of "havgalah" called for aggressive defense against Arab attacks but rejected unequivocally the option of attacks on uninvolved civilian Arabs.

This was not deemed aggressive enough by the right-wing "Revisionist" Zionists, who were also more militaristic and believers in territorial maximalism ("From the river to the sea"). These groups, the Irgun and the Lehi, BROKE AWAY from the Jewish Agency and established their own organizations and leadership, independent of any control. Essentially, they were the Jewish equivalents of Hamas, et al. The most extreme group, the Lehi (also called "Stern Gang"), even attempted to forge a "Fascist Alliance" with Hitler.

It is THESE groups who committed many of the atrocities attributed to unspecified "Zionists". (Deir Yassin and the attack on the King David Hotel, for instance, were both Irgun attacks.) These attacks were often denounced publicly by the Jewish Agency.

Eventually, the Jewish Agency decided it couldn't let these rival armed groups continue to exist and operate. Not only were they a threat to their own power; they also couldn't be controlled by ANYONE. This resulted in what amounted to a contained mini-civil war, begun with "The Seaon" and ending with the Altalena. It should be noted that while the Haganah was ruthlessly cracking down on the dissidents, that their right-wing opponents refused to fight back against their fellow Jews.

Altalena: http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/History/Altalena.html

The Season: http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/History/season.html

Active terrorists were NOT part of Israel's "founding". To the contrary; the Israeli leadership showed a fierce determination to put a stop to the terrorist groups operating in Israel, making the extremely painful choice to pursue, arrest, imprison, torture, and even KILL their fellow countrymen (remember, this is right after the Holocaust!), with the ultimate goal of forcing them to accept the unified authority of the Jewish Agency, and ensuring that the only armed group in the country was the army.

In my opinion, it is THIS kind of behavior that we need to see most from the Palestinians right now. Unfortunately, it seems that the present leadership does not possess enough resources or will to bring this to pass.

The JDL are scum, and entirely unrepresentive of the Jewish people. The ADL are not a legitimate source however, considering the fact they've spied on leftist groups up to and including liberal Jews. http://www.foodnotbombs.net/adl_examiner.html

If this was a matter concerning "liberal Jews", then your accusations of bias would be certainly relevant and note-worthy. Considering that the JDL does not meet this description, I see no reason not to use the ADL as a reliable source on this matter.

Furthermore, the mere fact that they are spying on people doesn't mean that their information is necessarily incorrect, merely that they have an agenda in who they look at. I note, for instance, that your link doesn't accuse the ADL of lying or fabricating any of their data.

This makes them creepy and a bit disengenuous as far as being a "civil rights group", (and of course, there's the whole legal issues) but I don't think it discredits them as a reliable source on the JDL's legacy of hate, violence, and general bullshit.

If this was a matter concerning "liberal Jews", then your accusations of bias would be certainly relevant and note-worthy. Considering that the JDL does not meet this description, I see no reason not to use the ADL as a reliable source on this matter.

Furthermore, the mere fact that they are spying on people doesn't mean that their information is necessarily incorrect, merely that they have an agenda in who they look at. I note, for instance, that your link doesn't accuse the ADL of lying or fabricating any of their data.

This makes them creepy and a bit disengenuous as far as being a "civil rights group", (and of course, there's the whole legal issues) but I don't think it discredits them as a reliable source on the JDL's legacy of hate, violence, and general bullshit.Although I believe that there was a court case that did show them to be lying- I'll try to find a link. I take your point, I just think that on groups like the JDL you're better off using real anti racists as your source rather then FBI affilated groups like the ADL.

Why? Because everyone needs a nemesis so they can justify themselves and their actions. Someone, something, some idea, some nation to compare our own precious ideals to and find faulty through our own "perfectly objective" scrutiny so we can all go another day feeling morally clean simply because we believe in our proud, sky-nosed mind that something else is more blighted than us. Luckily for us, there is no end to human stupidity and all the time in the world to misconstrue, twist, and otherwise manipulate the words, actions, and appearances of those whom we've chosen as a nemesis.

I do not believe humans are peaceful by nature. Humans seems to thrive on conflict, you can go to an anti-war peace rally (for example) and realise this. You'll see some interesting behaviour. They all have enemies...they are miles from peaceful and a dimension away from serene. If they were forced to carry weapons and had their opinions opposed in the slightest, there would be fatalities. It would be purest irony.

What people fail to grasp is that true peace is not won through libel and slander, there is no victory in vilification (unless the point is to get people to hate without reason), and reasons should not matter. The only way to have proper peace is to disregard all reason and love your fellow man/woman. One day we might realise this... well, maybe.

People are mostly unimpressed by their lack of respect for international law seizing lands during cease fires in the first arab-israeli war establishing new settlements in what is palastinian,their hero from their wars was a pirate who wore an eye patch their building a wall on palastinian land and you wonder why people hate them!

Oh, an eyepatch! Well, since you put it that way... :rolleyes:

Wow . . . the fact that Israel got no applause made you sick . . . Aren't you sensitive? It is strange though that the Israeli army, blowing up Palestinian women and children, doesn't make you "sick."

You know what makes ME barf? Frivolous, self-righteous and pompous people who won't hesitate to chastise others efferously, while their own opinions are nothing but empty rhetoric.

you have it backwards... I will attempt to educate you a bit... The Israeli's target legitimate military targets and since war does not discriminate, there will be casualties among the innocent. That is reality.

NOW, the Palestinians target the innocent by bombing buses and cafes. They are targeting the innocent population as a whole wheich is NOT a legitimate target...

I am certain you can read this and differentiate between the good and the evil intentions... Have a wonderful day with the blessing of new knowledge...

The UN can only be biased if the vast majority of nations that compose it have a certain opinion. That opinion is, that Israel is in the wrong, and should not continue with its aggressive, land-grabbing policies (ahem the illegal wall, construction of more Israeli settlements, even since AFTER teh "roadmap" was approved, which forbids the construction of these). The only reason that Israel is allowed to do what it does is because the USA will veto any resolution that seeks to punish Israel- they allow the ones that "strongly condemn", but do nothing. Say the EU were to table a resolution asking for Israeli sanctions (I know that theEU doesnt have one specific seat, but the EU member-states nearly always all endorse the same plan). China, Russia, Britain and France (obviously in the EU) would vote for this, as they all see that Israel is becoming too greedy and unilateral. However, in pops the USA, and BANG, there goes any chance of disciplining Israel.

I have an analogy. Imagine you have a child, and that child steals lots of another childs toys, leaving them with very few (this is the Israeli state being formed in the 1940s- your child is Israel, the other is Palestine). Now the other child isnt very happy- he liked those toys, you stole the best ones. So he asks a few of his friends to help him to get them back. They bitchslap you for a while, but suddenly, your big brother comes in, gives you a tank, and you blow them all to hell. Now these children, and all the other children in the playroom (this is the UN) get upset, and ask for you to be punished. All of the little children sit around a big table, and then suddenly, your teenage brother appears, this time with more tanks, and says that you have done nothing wrong. Who could ever possibly challenge this? Meanwhile, you grow up to be a bully- if anyone tries to stop you from stealing more toys, or attempting to get nuclear weapons (cant think of a childhood analogy for these, sorry), then your big brother comes along and stops them. You grow up to be the bully, the nation that is hated, and feared by those around you, whilst you yearn for more and more, and whilst your brother continues to sponsor you.

Nice little analogy, but rather inappropriate.

How about this one:

You have a child and that child is the only one of his race in his class and in his school... everyone else is of a specific other race. Your child's classmates won't let him have any toys, even when the teacher has told them to share, and won't even let him sit in a chair without trying to dump him out of it. Your child stands up for himself and takes his share of the toys and fights off anyone who tries to dump him out of his chair. The other kids get some bigger kids from the other classes and they try to take back the toys and drive your kid off of the playground. You've taught your kid to fight, and he beats them, and he takes some more toys and tells them he will not share until they are willing to share and to stop attacking him... and when they attack him again he takes more toys and he writes his name on a few of them.

Now the other kids go crying to their mommas, boo hoo hoo, and their parents go to the school board and complain to you about your kid's "antisocial tendencies". The school board says that your child should share the toys, the very toys that the other kids were unwilling to share, but you have a lot of clout in the community so nothing really comes of this. Some of the other kids keep trying to beat up your kid, but he smacks their bitch asses down. Nobody ever says to your kid "we're sorry we wouldn't share... let's be friends now. We won't try to beat you up again."

A far more appropriate analogy to this situation.

From http://dictionary.reference.com :



Guess what, genius? Ashkenazi Jews are named from the Hebrew word for "German". This idea that you have that they are not a semetic people, that they are descended not from Shem but from Japheth, is actually true in as much as they intermarried with germanic and other european people.

Oh wait... now I get it... the Jews are so evil because of all that White blood :rolleyes:

Hey now wasn't one of your clone-mates saying that the Jews were not Israelites because they messed around with the Canaanites? And that the true Israelites, the "Alglo-Isrealites", were brought up from Babylon to the Caucuses where they were absorbed by the... Angles?

1/3 of the Hebrew Patriarchs had hamitic mothers, btw, so I guess a lot of even the first Israelites weren't Semites, right? But some of those who went to Europe became Japhethites, and the others, the ones that according to you, did NOT keep the sabbath and did NOT keep Pasach and Yom Kippur and did NOT keep kosher, somehow remained Jews?

You should sue your momma for home schooling you, boy. She didn't even manage to impart basic reasoning skills, now did she?

Jew, Ashkenazi(m) (Franco-German, Eastern and Central European Jews)

The Northern Kingdom of Yisrael (Israel) was conquered by the Assyrian King Shalmaneser V, in 745-722 BCE, (for their sin before Yahweh), and the Yisraelites were exiled into (Assyria), 2 Kings 17:5-7. They prospered during the years in Assyria, and became a huge population of people. Outgrowing the land area they eventually migrated North through the 'Caucasus Mountains', and into central and Western Europe forming the Great European Nations. Their descendants are known as Caucasians. As these Yisraelites migrated they influenced many local people groups. No longer having an organized religious priesthood, and not having a nation or national identity, their system of worship was corrupted through many years of captive living in pagan Assyria. During the 7th century A.D. various bits and pieces of the old Yahudain religion was embraced and expanded on by the Khazars, (a people of Turkish descent). The Khazar King, his court, and the Khazar military class, adopted this amalgamated newly formed religion, which is now known as Jew-ism.


Present-day Modern Jew-ism, was formally formed into it's basic cultic worship form about 1,000 years ago, (according to Jewish history), when - Rabbenu Gershon a Khazar/Jew of Mainz, Germany, published a ban on bigamy for the Jews. This marks the recorded beginning of the Ashkenazi Jewish Sect, and Franco-German halachic* creativity. The word 'Ashkenazi' is not Hebrew for the word Germany, although the name has become 'associated' with Germany because many Ashkenazi Jews organized in Eastern Europe.

*halachic - loose 'interpretations' of Old Testament laws.



In common parlance the present day 'Jew' is synonymous with the 'Ashkenazi Khazar/Jew.' Scripture refers to the Ashkenaz in Gen. 10:3, and in I Chron. 1:6, as one of the sons of Gomer, who was a son of Japheth, who was a son of Noah. Ashkenaz was also a brother of Togarmah (and a nephew of Magog) who the Kazars according to King Joseph (of the Kazars) claimed as their ancestor. The people who refer to themselves as Ashkenazi Jews are not Yisraelites, and they are not Semites because they do not descend from Noah's son Shem. They are an Ashkenazi Khazar people group, who descend from Noah's son Japheth. Approximately 90 percent of the Jews in the world call themselves Ashkenazi Jews.

---------------------------------------------------

Jew, Sephardim (Spanish Jews)

After the Northern Kingdom of Yisrael (Israel) was conquered by the Assyrian King Shalmaneser V, in 745-722 BCE, (for their sin before Yahweh), the Israelites from the Northern Kingdom were exiled into (Assyria), 2 Kings 17:5-7. The Assyrian King then imported people groups from his country (Assyria) to replace the exiled Yisraelites in order for him to maintain and control the land of the exiles. The Assyrian Sepharvaim people were one of these groups, along with some Cuthahites, and Arrahites, 2 Kings 17:24. They mingled with each other, along with the Edomite people, who had migrated Northward from Idumea (field of Edom) after Yisrael and the Yahudain were exiled. Adad and Anu were ancient gods of Babylonia and were also the gods of these pagan Sepharvaim people. The Sephardim Yahudain are a mongrel people whose descent is directly from a mixture of this Assyrian people group and the remnant of some of the escaped Yahudain and Yisraelites, strongly mixed with Edomite blood. The Edomites migrated into the land originally occupied by the Northern Kingdom of Yisrael and the Sothern Kingdom of Yahud. The religion of the area also became of mixed character, from this diversity of people, 2 Kings 17:24-41.

The people known as Sephardim Jews, "Spanish Jews," include a mixture of these people who also descended from the Canaanites (the people who colonized Carthage). Following it's sack by Rome, they adopted the Sepharvaim, or Sephardim name and constitute about 5% of world Jews today. The Sephardim Jews speak Latino, a mixture of Spanish and Hebrew. The Sephardim Jews migrated West through Egypt, then North into Spain from Yahud and Samaria before, during, and after the destruction of Yerushalayim by the Romans in 70 CE,. This migration became known as the "Jewish Diaspora"/[b]. Today, these Sephardim Jews are still using their ancient adopted name Sephardim). They settled in Spain, Portugal, the Eastern Mediterranean, Italy, the Balkans, Salonica and Macedonia, and eventually emigrated into France, England, and Western Europe.

[b]Unlike the Ashkenazi Jew (who never set a foot in the Southern Kingdom of Yahud), the Sepharviam Yahudain did originate from Yahud and were known as Samaritans during the time of Messiah, because most were living in Samaria which was the area from which the Northern Kingdom of Yisrael was removed by the conquest of the Assyrian King Shalmaneser V. The twelve apostles during the time if Messiah, were instructed not to enter the cities of the Samaritans, Matt. 10:5. Although many True Yisraelites of tribal descent living in Samaria did received the witness of Yahshua and the message of redemption from the apostles, Acts, 1:8. Some of the mixed blood Samaritans also became proselytes to the Christian faith, through the Ministry of the apostles. Acts 8:4-25.

The Sephardim Jews, or Sepharviam Jews (spelling is not important) are not of Hebrew Israelite blood; they are not of the tribe of Yahudah although they were called Yahudain, as inhabitants, i.e. persons living in the land originally occupied by Yahud and Yisrael. Their descent is mixed from Edom/Esau/Canaanite blood. The Sephardim Jews, like the Ashkenazi Khazar Jews are not a Semitic people. The word Sephardim is not a Hebrew word for Spain, although the name has become 'associated' with Spain because many Sephardim Jews organized as a people group in Spain.

The JDL are scum, and entirely unrepresentive of the Jewish people. The ADL are not a legitimate source however, considering the fact they've spied on leftist groups up to and including liberal Jews. http://www.foodnotbombs.net/adl_examiner.html

The JDL are indeed scum, they even attempted to publish Noam Chomsky's phone number at one point.

What would you Americans do if a British man came to your country and said it was his? What if one of your children was killed in this conflict? Would you not take up arms against your oppresor? The Palastinians fight with rocks, and each time the Israilis destroy someones home, or kills one of their children, they only make more rocks. That is my favorite metaphore to describe the conflict.

I dream of a peacful Isreal, where it doesnt matter if you are Jewish, Athiest, Muslim, Hende, or any other race, or relegion.

Jew, Ashkenazi(m) (Franco-German, Eastern and Central European Jews)...

Cite your source.

The JDL are indeed scum, they even attempted to publish Noam Chomsky's phone number at one point.

I've made my feelings about Chomsky known, but I definitely don't agree with the JDL's actions- assholes should be confronted, not threatened with violence.

What would you Americans do if a British man came to your country and said it was his? What if one of your children was killed in this conflict? Would you not take up arms against your oppresor?

So, by that logic, the Israelis are justified in killing Palestinians, too, since THEIR children have also died? I bet a lot of us would be eager for revenge if we lost a relative- regardless of what side we were on.

That's why, in my opinion, this "justifying-revenge" bullshit doesn't help anyone.

Who was their first, Israilie settlers or Palastinians? I just wish one side would break the cycle of violence, rather it be Israil or Palastine.

"try" is, of course, a relative word.

it was easy for all the greek city states to stop fighting for two weeks to compete, but now? with a over a hundred nations and billions of people it's not that easy to persuade people about the "olympic spirit".
He was scared to death :P

Wow . . . the fact that Israel got no applause made you sick . . . Aren't you sensitive? It is strange though that the Israeli army, blowing up Palestinian women and children, doesn't make you "sick."

You know what makes ME barf? Frivolous, self-righteous and pompous people who won't hesitate to chastise others efferously, while their own opinions are nothing but empty rhetoric.
Bull. Shit. The israeli army is defending itself from uneducated lunatics who are "brainwashed"(not really, but very much influenced) by terroirst group leaders. They dont go around killing women and children

Susa,
I completely agree. I'm also a christian and the simple answer to your question is this, Israel is hated because they turned their hearts from God. The bible speaks about it all through 2nd Kings. They turned on God, served other Gods and were punished for it. They never went back to him in full through christ. Thats the cause for their troubles.


I can't believe that sane, well adjusted people living in this century would still hold such profoundly shallow beliefs. Which God??? Your god, my god, someone elses god??? So how come, Islam is the fastest growing religion in the world? They don't believe in Christ??? It is crud like the "turning from Christ" or the "execution of Christ" that gets shunted at us in every bible class, school assembly, church assembly that brainwashes the world into thinking it is "all their fault". That somehow they should pay forever more for killing Jesus. Please...if some Joe no-body came along today in his sandals and turned water into wine you would stone him for being a Satanist. If he performed a "miracle" you would call him an illusionist.
God and godliness is in the actions you do. The choices you make and the impact you have on others.

Uh. . . Are you aware of the fact that Israel has been occupying territories belonging to the Arab states ever since its establishment?

Did you ever hear of the Six Day war? A pre-emptive strike in which Israel occupied the Sinai peninsula, the West Bank and Golan Heights, and Destroyed almost entire Egyptian Air Force on ground?

Did you know that Israel has been continuosly been violating international law and human rights for years?

And you're bitching because Palestinians are blowing themselves up? I would be throwing stones too in such conditions.

Get your facts straight sparky, then I won't mind addressing you.
As opposed to the fact that the same day UN troops left Israel, ALL arab nations invaded it? we still won thouh :)

I do not believe humans are peaceful by nature.

You are exactly right. We humans are NOT peaceful by nature. We must be taught peace; yet we've always known how to fight.

I'm driving off topic, but has anyone considered war to nature's way of controlling human population? I mean, we're already genetically engineering our food, sooner or later, we'll have a cure for all diseases, and we'll very likely even leave the Earth one day. With all this power, how can nature control us? When we discover those things, how will we be controlled?

Well, we kill each other. Nature doesn't even have to control our population. We do it for her.

As opposed to the fact that the same day UN troops left Israel, ALL arab nations invaded it? we still won thouh :)
Are you Israeli?

With all this power, how can nature control us?
Homosexuality, that's how.

cut and paste all the propaganda tracts you want, it won't change the fact that virtually everyone in the world outside the us knows you stole that land and someday you'll have to give it back.
That's right!! Forget about logic, common sense and strong argumnets! Dumb statements like this are the only ones that are right!

Study some ancient languages, than re-read the bible. It's funny, but all of a sudden, you realize that Mary is never called a "virgin" but the word used is actually the same used for the sexually active young lady in Solomon.

Furthermore, you realize that NONE of the original apostles believed he was god, and that the only one who did was the Pharisee, who became an apostle after Jesus was dead already, and was told by the original apostles that he was a right good nutter.

Study some ancient HISTORY and you find out that Matthew, the earliest book, was written between 70 and 150 years after Jesus died--and hence, probably not reliable, as Matthew himself couldn't of written it.

I'm not going to defend or justify my position on this... it's not a position but a statement of fact. The only position I'm taking is the assertation that if something is written by someone and they sign your name to it, it's probably not reliable.

Is that crazy?

If you disagree with any of this, go read the Bible, or discuss amongst yourselves.

P.S. It's not a good idea to justify the hatred of jews by explaining that the Christian God is punishing them for not believing in him. Not only is it rude, but it also assumes that in some strange way Asians, Arabs, and many, many others around the world suffer punishment as well.... or that the Jews are just "disliked" more by god. Think logically before you talk with your religion :)

Oh come of it!

The US has been responsible for state terrorism in Cambodia, Vietnam, Nicaragua, Afghanistan and Iraq. Its driven and led down the genocidal route by a fundamentalist Christian leader, in a country were a large proportion of the populace in certain areas of the South are so fiercely Christian - They would shoot somebody if they looked the faintest bit black. America bears all the hallmarks of the Worlds leading terrorist nation - it enforces propoganda and indoctrination through obedience from Schooling (Pledge allegiance to your Government) right up until the children are ready to watch the news - then the corporations with right wing interests can do it for them.

Why do you think America has remained staunchly far right across the whole of the political spectrum? Because of the facts mentioned about Society as a whole in America - And why Society is kept in this 'must consume' attitude for most of thier adult lives - Indoctrination, one key word. Bush's 'War on Terror' is comparable to Reagan's 'War on Terror' as they are both following the same Terrorism fuelled route - America is determined to enforce Imperialism through Hegemony on Arabic Nations, and use Israel as a partner in doing so. Whereas Reagan concentrated on Central America and decided to murder people there. Its all the same, its American Foreign Policy, and its here to stay.
Stalin killed 50,000,000 people in his concentration camps. US doesn't come close.

Are you Israeli?
I am Jewish

I am Jewish
Well, good luck on these forums dude, I have nothing against Jews, but you may see and read some very offensive stuff on this forum against Jews. Oh, and Israel really did kick arab ass ;)

Oh, and Israel really did kick arab ass ;)Would you have been as cheerful...if Iraq kicked Jewish Ass?

Would you have been as cheerful...if Iraq kicked Jewish Ass?
Well, depends under what consequences, what the 2 nations did to start a war, etc. But in the instance of the 6 day war and all the other Israel-Arab conflicts, Israel was justified.

Well, Greece is in the middle of europe and the middle east. Olus there still is a lot of anti-semitism. And, Israel did just get put up over night giving palestinians no place to live. That kinda pissed some people off.

.... and all the other Israel-Arab conflicts, Israel was justified.Poeple like you justify Israel in every conflict...so far...Israel is Justified everytime...allways has been...every single action... every single civilean killed,,every Woman...every child...evry elderly...every bulldozed Home...every single time...

_susa_ you are Anti-Semite...

Poeple like you justify Israel in every conflict...so far...Israel is Justified everytime...allways has been...every single action... every single civilean killed,,every Woman...every child...evry elderly...every bulldozed Home...every single time...
Well, the nation of Israel does not do the things you accuse them of, and they have a right to fight back when they are attacked by Arab nations, and a right to fight back when they are attacked by Suicide Bombers. They dont fight back in revenge, they fight back to stop further attacks, and they do not fight back against any innocent people. And just because you are civilian does not give you any excuse if you are a terrorist.

I have no problem with jewish people or judaism, many of my best friends are Jewish but that doesn't prove anything. I don't like Israel. I think it's a bad idea. But I also think the hate for Israeli policies shouldn't be focused on people who don't make the policies.

I cheered when I saw the 3 people from palestine march through.

What's up with the "Security barrier"? Whatever, its a wall. I wonder who thaought that up. It's like;
"Hey, you know how we can bond with the palestinians and put an end to our conflicting beliefs? We can build a wall between us and them!"

_susa_ you are Anti-Semite...
No, ive said it once ill say it again, I neither hate the race/religion of Judiasm neither do I hate the race/religion/nationality of Islam and Arab nations. I may not support the governments and actions of said nations, but I do not hate the people! I might disagree or even loathe the governments and the terrorists, but I harbor no bad feeligns towards innocent people of any race, in any part of the world. Please do not accuse me of that any more, because it is very wrong, and a very emotional subject for me.

Yeah, they kinda tried the whole wall thing in Berlin. . . it didnt work very well.

Well, the nation of Israel does not do the things you accuse them of.
They dont kill Children?
They dont Kill Women?
They dony kill elderly?
They dont Buldoze homes?

You are so Antisemite...you are in total denial...

They dont kill Children?
They dont Kill Women?
They dony kill elderly?
They dont Buldoze homes?

You are so Antisemite...you are in total denial...
They only do such things if, and only if, it is in the war against the Palestinian terrorists. And this conversation is going nowhere, so I guess we can both just have our opinions.

They dont kill Children?
They dont Kill Women?
They dony kill elderly?
They dont Buldoze homes?

You are so Antisemite...you are in total denial...

I think what Susa's trying to say is they don't purposely target them.

They only do such things if, and only if.....Like i said You will always find justifications...always have ..always will...

Either way....Why ask a Question...if you cant handle the Answers..
Israel: Why are you so hated?
You remind me of the 3 little monkeys...

I think what Susa's trying to say is they don't purposely target them.this is you :( :sniper: and Im not purposely targeting you...I swear.

and if some of your neighbors accept the current occupation...I will stop un-purposely targetting you...

And if I was you...I would go and try to convince your uncles...you sons...your cousins or....whoever those pesky terrorists are...go now GO!

Wow . . . the fact that Israel got no applause made you sick . . . Aren't you sensitive? It is strange though that the Israeli army, blowing up Palestinian women and children, doesn't make you "sick."

You know what makes ME barf? Frivolous, self-righteous and pompous people who won't hesitate to chastise others efferously, while their own opinions are nothing but empty rhetoric.

Damn right... I cannot respect Israel in the least, I am a hardcore Roman Catholic and have to say that I am quite anti-semetic, but that's another story... My respect for Israel will MAYBE grow a bit when they learn to fight their own battles... I'm sick of republicans in the US fighting so eagerly for Israel, I am far to the right and the only thing about conservatives in the US that REALLY ruins it for me is that they are so fucking hardcore pro-semites, even though the majority of jews are just atheists or non practicing anyway... Sorry if I piss anyone off, I'm just kind of venting rightn ow bc I'm personally in a bad mood.
Viva Argentina!

Poeple like you justify Israel in every conflict...so far...Israel is Justified everytime...allways has been...every single action... every single civilean killed,,every Woman...every child...evry elderly...every bulldozed Home...every single time...
Disgusting. How dare you.

While Israel's treatment of the Palistinians is unsympathetic and illogical at it's best and embarassing cruel at it's worst, many intellectuals or enlightened people use a valid criticism of of an unjust policy to rationalize a sometimes unconscious and sometimes intentional anti-Jewish sentiment. Since hatred of Jews is the cornerstone of the National Socialist (Nazi) ideology, and the contemporary U.S. or European pop-Leftist/hipster-radical cannot directly be associated with the driving force of Extreme Right Wing extremism, so they channel any anti-Jewish feelings into a fanatical anti-Israeli obsession. It is the same reason allegedly progressive Europe find a relief in a socialy acceptable way to express anti-Jewish feelings instilled over 2,000 years and not only still claim to be so progressive but also convince themselves that an overwelming hatred of Israel is actually required to be progressive/leftist. Also the fanatical University revolutionary or arm chair activist has the dilema of hateing Middle Eastern based western religion, they dogmaticly may claim to hate all religion while patronizly it is acceptable to find virtue in "Eastern Religion", Christianity must be despised at all costs, and since Christianity has roots in Judiasm, they may hate Israel as a proxy for anti-"western" self hate.

This said, Israeli Palistinian policy is seriously flawed and immoral, and will likely continue as long as Israel remains a thinly veiled sectarian theocracy, and while I condemn Israels treatment of her established Arab Muslim/Christian population, I must say, the global track record of humanity's treatment of Jews makes one understand why they are a bit paranoid, but may only explain but by no means justifys Israel's cruel streak.

And as far as the Olympics go, Israel is no more deserving of boos and jeers than just about any other State, and infact thier are many others who do far worse. People should not exploit real palistinian suffering to justify iraational prejudices and hate. I just dont think you should jeer at the Olympics, it is bad form and xenophobic.

I have no problem with jewish people or judaism, many of my best friends are Jewish but that doesn't prove anything. I don't like Israel. I think it's a bad idea. But I also think the hate for Israeli policies shouldn't be focused on people who don't make the policies.

I cheered when I saw the 3 people from palestine march through.

What's up with the "Security barrier"? Whatever, its a wall. I wonder who thaought that up. It's like;
"Hey, you know how we can bond with the palestinians and put an end to our conflicting beliefs? We can build a wall between us and them!"
The idea was not to bond. The idea was to prevent suicidal bombers from entering Israel.

They dont kill Children?
They dont Kill Women?
They dony kill elderly?
They dont Buldoze homes?

You are so Antisemite...you are in total denial...
They do not do that! When the terrorists hide among those civilians, using them as human shields, yes they sometimes ACCIDENTLY kill women and old people.As for buldozing homes, it is always after numerous letters telling them to get out.

... they are so fucking hardcore pro-semites!Semites= Arabs and Jews (descendans of Abraham IMO)

so if they were Pro-semites they would give the same amount of Weapons and Welfare aid(Billions) to Pals and Jews...

So i Guess what you mean is ... "they are so fucking hardcore pro-Jewish!"

BTW My money is on Argentina for the Football Gold medal....

this is you :( :sniper: and Im not purposely targeting you...I swear.

and if some of your neighbors accept the current occupation...I will stop un-purposely targetting you...

And if I was you...I would go and try to convince your uncles...you sons...your cousins or....whoever those pesky terrorists are...go now GO!
:D
:D:D:( :sniper:
:D

The grinning guys are terrorists who
A) get to survive after the Israeli military fights back after yet another suicidal bombing
B) get to blame israel for killing Revolutionz, even though they specifically hid behind him as a human shield

The grinning guys are terrorists who
A) get to survive after the Israeli military fights back after yet another suicidal bombing
B) get to blame israel for killing Revolutionz, even though they specifically hid behind him as a human shield
so your ratio is : we kill 1 Inocent...we killed 4 terrorist...

I think the real ratio is more like this

:( :( :p :( 20X :( :( :( :( :( :sniper:

You have included too many images in your signature or in your previous post. Please go back and correct the problem and then continue again.

so your ratio is : we kill 1 Inocent...we killed 4 terrorist...

I think the real ratio is more like this

:( :( :p :( 20X :( :( :( :( :( :sniper:

You have included too many images in your signature or in your previous post. Please go back and correct the problem and then continue again.
My sniper actually represent an Apache Gunchip Firing from the far distance...hoping to get 1 or 2 terrorist...And sure to kill dozens of inocent people...Either way the Killings shall weaken the uprising...

The more Palestineans Emigrate...the better...

Well, good luck on these forums dude, I have nothing against Jews, but you may see and read some very offensive stuff on this forum against Jews. Oh, and Israel really did kick arab ass ;)

And Osama really kicked ass as well didn't he?

Works both ways pal.

What's up with the "Security barrier"? Whatever, its a wall. I wonder who thaought that up. It's like;
"Hey, you know how we can bond with the palestinians and put an end to our conflicting beliefs? We can build a wall between us and them!"

It was built to stop suicide bombers from murdering innocent Israeli civilians. Not to "bond".

Cite your source.

http://assemblyoftrueisrael.com/Documents/WordsandtermsintheScriptures.html#j

Semites= Arabs and Jews (descendans of Abraham IMO)

so if they were Pro-semites they would give the same amount of Weapons and Welfare aid(Billions) to Pals and Jews...

So i Guess what you mean is ... "they are so fucking hardcore pro-Jewish!"

BTW My money is on Argentina for the Football Gold medal....

Wrong, while most Arabs are Semites (They are descendants of Shem) no Jews are. They are not from Shem and thus are not Semites.

:Edit - also not many Jews, in fact very few (probably less than 5%) are descendants of Abraham

Wrong, while most Arabs are Semites (They are descendants of Shem) no Jews are. They are not from Shem and thus are not Semites.

:Edit - also not many Jews, in fact very few (probably less than 5%) are descendants of Abraham

That's according to your own theology, not actual "fact".

The ideology you profess belief in, Anglo-Israelism, is part of the Christian Identity movement, and is often associated with being a cult or part of white supremacy/separatism.

Needless to say, I don't consider it particularly convincing or compelling. If that wasn't enough, one of the contributors on that website has given "speeches" to supporters of Holocaust denier Ernst Zundel and "KKK-lite" David Duke.

Some of the claims of Anglo-Israelism are addressed (and attacked) here: http://www.wcg.org/lit/prophecy/baron/baron1.htm

Other links here, for those interested

http://www.americanreligion.org/cultwtch/identity.html

http://www.rickross.com/groups/christian_identity.html

http://www.rickross.com/groups/israel.html

http://home.pacifier.com/~dkossy/anglo.html

Wilson, Hine and other Anglo-Israelites at that time were not anti-Semites. On the contrary, they saw the modern Jews as their brethren under the same almighty God. In fact, as soon as the rest of the British discovered their true identity as the Ten Lost Tribes of Israel, they would join the tribes of Judah and Levi (the Jews) in the Holy Land; the reunion of the 12 tribes was a precondition for the second coming of Jesus, which would soon follow. Later, those who hated Jews rationalized their feelings in altered versions of the original theory. Hine paved the way for combining Wilson's theory with extremely liberal interpretations of the Bible. In time, virtually any bigotry could be justified by identifying the hated group with the various enemies of Israel, such as Canaanites, Amorites, Assyrians and Jebusites.

...One of Rand's accomplishments seems to have been the sanitization of anti-Semitism by smoothly integrating it with the Anglo-Israelite ideology. His account of the history of the Jews, based on the Old Testament, begins with the separation of the tribe of Judah, who resided in the Southern Kingdom, from the rest of Israel. The Northern Kingdom, or House of Israel, was overthrown and the Israelites were carried away into captivity by the Assyrians. Meanwhile the House of Judah was kept intact for 130 years, until decadence and rebellion compelled God to send the Babylonians to attack them. They were conquered and taken into captivity, and remained in Babylonia for 70 years. "It was at the time of the captivity of the Southern Kingdom that the term 'Jew' began to be used and it applied only to the remnant of Judah (II Kings 18:26; Jer. 41:3)." This "remnant" returned to Jerusalem and "the Nation of the Jews came into being." Therefore, the Jews are descended only from the Southern Kingdom of Judah and do not constitute the whole of Israel. Furthermore, "the remnant who returned to Palestine... intermarried with the Hittites and other Gentile people..." So the people referred to as Jews today are basically frauds if they claim to be the Israelites, God's Chosen People of the Bible.

Edit: One more.

http://www.apologeticsindex.org/l16.html

Though Identity is overtly anti-Semitic, its proponents claim that those who are against them are the true anti-Semites. But there is a deeper reason for the anti-Israel stance taken not only by Identity, but by other dominion-oriented movements.

...Identity's hatred is not limited to Jews, however. Blacks and other non-whites are looked upon as inferior beings who may be allowed to enjoy the benefits of the kingdom as long as they remain subject to their Anglo-Saxon superiors. They cannot hold positions of significant authority, however, because the promises to Israel belong only to the "true" Israelites: the Anglo-Saxon believers.

The snag in Identity's plans for America is the tremendous influx of non-white immigrants whom they see as parasitical and detrimental to the establishment of God's white-dominated world government. The fewer non-whites that are left to enter the Kingdom, the better, as far as Identity is concerned.

As a side note, there is a black counter to Identity known as the Yahweh sect. This cult believes that American blacks are the true descendants of the biblical tribe of Judah, living in the land of the "white devil."(78) Maybe the black Yahweh sect and white Identity are both right. Perhaps they're related and don't know it.

In view of Identity's racial policy, it isn't surprising that radical racist groups such as the neo-Nazis and the Ku Klux Klan have joined.(79) For all their error and their attacks against non-whites, these groups are zealously moralistic (by their convoluted standards). Although Identity's members consider themselves Christians their ideology is more akin to salvation by race than salvation by grace. They welcome Aryan pagans into fellowship while mounting hate campaigns against Christian Jews, blacks, and other non-whites.

This isn't to say that all Identity People are overtly racist, but their philosophy reflects a dangerous mindset that threatens to exacerbate an already tense situation between races. Their para-militarism and rebellion against constituted authority combine to create a volatile situation that could someday erupt into fullscale racial warfare.

...Not all who believe in British-Israelism are part of Identity. But on the basis of little more than conjecture and hearsay, British-Israelism has found credibility in the eyes of many otherwise sensible Christians.

As for buldozing homes, it is always after numerous letters telling them to get out.So sucide bombings would be ok if Hamas sent letters to Israelis telling them to leave their homes first?

Read http://www.gush-shalom.org/english/ It might be an eye opener for you.





@QahJoh- Austrealite's a fascist. Use the "find all previous posts" facility.

So sucide bombings would be ok if Hamas sent letters to Israelis telling them to leave their homes first?

Read http://www.gush-shalom.org/english/ It might be an eye opener for you.





@QahJoh- Austrealite's a fascist. Use the "find all previous posts" facility.
Funny how the word Fascist has become an insult. It is a political movement, I admit with some pretty poor examples but not so many bad examples as Democracy. After all Hitler was brought to power by the democratic process. Many of the worst african countries claim to be democratic, as the US see democracy as the cure for all evils.

most important thing is to be informed about what happened the last 15 years in Israel (and everywhere else), and by getting informed doesn t mean looking a bit to Fox news and CNN. And read and read and read, b cause if i see here that some think arabians are direct ascendans of australopithecus etc, i almost start to cry silently!!!

Make yourself an opinion!

They only give the news as they want it. It like, if they keep on telling u, u live in a free country, yeah you will believe that, even if others don t think so.

And for what s it worth, israel is fucking up all the credibility they once had. No wonder why nobody cheers for that country during the olympics, and i dont think those athletes have to take that personal, well maybe if i was an israelian athlete i would thank my country and say no if they asked me to defend it in sport

cheers

I still do not understand what Israel should do. The second intifada progressed very gradually, and Israeli tactics were much milder than what they are now. It was only the continued suicide bombings that led to the much harsher measures against Palestinians, but so far those extreme measures have worked better than most could have predicted. If I were an Israeli citizen, I would demand from my government to do whatever it takes to protect my fellow citizens. The current Palestinian leadership is bent against peace unless Israel fully concedes on all issues. Arafat rejected a treaty from a dovish, elected, Israeli Prime Minister in which the Palestinians would gain an interim nation and 95% of the land in the West Bank and all of Gaza. It is clear that both Palestinians and Israelis have long-standing attachment to the land of Judea and Samaria (the West Bank) so why not split it demographically. There are parts of the western edge of the West Bank that are almost entirely Jewish. Why not cede that 11% of the West Bank to Israel, and let the Palestinians keep everything else. Why do they refuse to compromise?