NationStates Jolt Archive

It can be anyone (they have to be famous, of course): good, evil, a politician, a celebrity, whatever. There's only one rule: NO FLAMING!!!! under any circumstances!

I'd say 44% isn't overrated....so I'll not mess with Bush...otherwise...

King Arthur seems to be pretty overrated.

columbus.

he was an idiot that got lucky, and then started the general policy of enslaving and slaughtering natives. and he got a holiday out of it.

I have a lot. The main one I won't say under any circumstances, because if I do, I'll get flamed so badly I'll be scorched to ashes. So, I'll name some other ones (a few are guaranteed to generate some anger):

Franklin Roosevelt
Woodrow Wilson
Ronald Reagan
Mikhail Gorbachev
Nelson Mandela
Dwight Eisenhower
John F. Kennedy
Bill Clinton

columbus.

he was an idiot that got lucky, and then started the general policy of enslaving and slaughtering natives. and he got a holiday out of it.

Huh. Good one, Free Soviets. I completely forgot about him.

I have a lot. The main one I won't say under any circumstances, because if I do, I'll get flamed so badly I'll be scorched to ashes.

Now you gotta say it, man. lol

Paris Hilton.

The main one I won't say under any circumstances, because if I do, I'll get flamed so badly I'll be scorched to ashes.

Would you be willing to telegram if I assured you I wouldn't post it here or saying anything about it to anyone (including you). (Unless I agree, but in that case, I'd only telegram you back saying I agree.)

Charlemagne (just to piss off Opal Isle)

Trust me, you do NOT want to hear. I have plenty of good reasons for picking this person, but even so, I don't want to end up being a deep-fried exterminator. :( (Lol, I'm not a real exterminator)

Ceasar........... ;)

Trust me, you do NOT want to hear. I have plenty of good reasons for picking this person, but even so, I don't want to end up being a deep-fried exterminator. :( (Lol, I'm not a real exterminator)
That's why you telegram.

Charlemagne (just to piss off Opal Isle)
Research him.

I think I still have to go with Ron Reagan, despite the flames that will generate.

Other than him: King Arthur, pretty much all of the Popes, Lincoln to some degree, King George, all of the French kings. Robspierre.

Lincoln. Damn. I knew I was forgetting someone. (And, no, he is not the one I am reluctant to name...)

I can agree with Lincoln being overrated. That's a good one.

I think King Arthur takes the cake easily though. Has anyone seen the new movie "King Arthur"? If you haven't seen it yet, don't. It sucks. It's a waste of $7.50. It isn't about the legend. It's about the supposed facts. It's dull and boring.

imo, it is without a doubt, mother theresa.

Far from being an altruistic humanitarian, she was brutal towards those in her care, believing it to be their own fault for being so poor.

Lincoln. Damn. I knew I was forgetting someone. (And, no, he is not the one I am reluctant to name...)
telegram me.

imo, it is without a doubt, mother theresa.

Far from being an altruistic humanitarian, she was brutal towards those in her care, believing it to be their own fault for being so poor.

Really? I never heard that... :confused:

The Wright brothers cause everyone knows that Richard Pearse was really the first person to fly under power.

imo, it is without a doubt, mother theresa.

Far from being an altruistic humanitarian, she was brutal towards those in her care, believing it to be their own fault for being so poor.

and she was rabidly against stuff like sex education and condoms (who does that remind you of).

Jesus. (Eh...for an overrated person...not for a person that MoTheresa reminds me of...)

columbus.

he was an idiot that got lucky, and then started the general policy of enslaving and slaughtering natives. and he got a holiday out of it.


That's probably the best one so far. Wipe out the entire native population of the island of Hispanolia (Modern Day Dominican Republic) and get celebrated. Go figure.

Albert Einstein is pretty overrated as well.

That's probably the best one so far. Wipe out the entire native population of the island of Hispanolia (Modern Day Dominican Republic) and get celebrated. Go figure.
(I think King Arthur beats Columbus. And depending on your beliefs, Jesus also beats Columbus.)

(I think King Arthur beats Columbus. And depending on your beliefs, Jesus also beats Columbus.)

Yeah, I'll go with Jesus on this one. I was typing and missed that one.

John Kennedy, Stalin, Lenin, Hitler, and pretty much every monarch in history

Mikhail Gorbachev

Bill Clinton Aw, man. I thought Clinton was an Okay guy... And Gorbachev... SIGH

Winston Churchill's another one. (But not THE one)

I have an idea...let's just list off any person that's ever received any sort of praise. The title says "overrated" not "high rated"

I think some of the people you guys are mention are worthy of the praise.

Roach, telegram me.

Kennedy was kind of overrated if only because his speechwriter deserved far more credit...but I also go with Christopher Columbus. He hardly discovered America (the Vikings did) and he deliberately enslaved tribes based on the idea that he could. Even as an elementary school kid reading about how he conquered the Arawak tribe, a peaceful tribe, I sat and wondered "What the hell did he do that for?" If he deserves his own U.S. holiday, then so does Ivan the Terrible.

Kennedy was kind of overrated if only because his speechwriter deserved far more credit...but I also go with Christopher Columbus. He hardly discovered America (the Vikings did) and he deliberately enslaved tribes based on the idea that he could. Even as an elementary school kid reading about how he conquered the Arawak tribe, a peaceful tribe, I sat and wondered "What the hell did he do that for?" If he deserves his own U.S. holiday, then so does Ivan the Terrible.
Wouldn't Ivan get a Russian holiday? Why does he deserve an American holiday?

Which Caesar, there were hundreds, it was just a name for the Emperor of Rome, and saying that just about every monarch was shitty, what about Peter the Great, he saw Russia's greatest expansion, Emperor Justinian invented the basis for the most frequently used form of law, the Byzantine emperors kept Europe safe from Mongols, Persians, Turks, Saracens, Egyptians, Algerians, and just general races that would have annhilated the Europe we learn about in 9th and 10 grades. That statment was way too general, and what was so overrated about Roosevelt, we wouldn't be speaking English or going to the mall or trashing talking the government whenever we wanted(and that goes for most of the free world also) if it wasn't for him. Whatever, but my opinion is probably Mussolini of Nasser.

That statment was way too general, and what was so overrated about Roosevelt, we wouldn't be speaking English or going to the mall or trashing talking the government whenever we wanted(and that goes for most of the free world also) if it wasn't for him.
Yes we would. Europe however, would be a different story...

What was so overrated about Roosevelt? Do you really have to ask? (sigh)

Kennedy was kind of overrated if only because his speechwriter deserved far more credit...but I also go with Christopher Columbus. He hardly discovered America (the Vikings did) and he deliberately enslaved tribes based on the idea that he could. Even as an elementary school kid reading about how he conquered the Arawak tribe, a peaceful tribe, I sat and wondered "What the hell did he do that for?" If he deserves his own U.S. holiday, then so does Ivan the Terrible.

Always thought the "NAtive Americans" discovered america. lol

Yes I must, go on

Tell me about Roosevelt's legacy of being overrated

Julius Caeser was overrated!

William Shakespeare. His plays are pretty shitty in my opinion.

I have a lot. The main one I won't say under any circumstances, because if I do, I'll get flamed so badly I'll be scorched to ashes.



Was it jesus?

Let's see...

1)Did NOT 'get us out of the Depression.' Far from it; he may have even prolonged it.

2)He changed us from a constitutional republic based on limited government to a socialist 'democracy' of nearly unlimited government.

3)He deliberately provoked the Japanese into attacking Pearl Harbor (and if you're curious, there are a ton of books on the subject, all of them meticulously researched)

4)Drastically prolonged World War II by refusing to support anti-Hitler Germans (instead, arrogantly insisting on 'unconditional surrender'), just as he prolonged the Depression.

5)He saved by the Soviet Union from the brink of collapse when he recognized it in 1933 and began giving them massive aid, helping them become a military and industrial superpower.

6)He backstabbed loyal American allies like China, Poland, etc.

7)He loaded his Administration with communists.

8)He supported soon-to-be dictators and thugs all around the world, including Ho Chi Minh, Tito, etc.

9)Forever destroyed the value of the dollar by taking us off the gold standard.

10)Was a malicious and compulsive liar. (Especially during the 1932 and 1940 elections).

11)A lifelong, radical internationalist, he was one of the founders of the United Nations.

12)He made scapegoats of Admirals Kimmel and Short, forever destroying their reputations.

Need I say more?

Jesus. (Eh...for an overrated person...not for a person that MoTheresa reminds me of...)
I already listed Jesus.

William Shakespeare. His plays are pretty shitty in my opinion.

Finally, someone who agrees with me! :D

Was it jesus?

No.

Jesus.

Columbus.

"Gone With The Wind."
-The Film.

Finally, someone who agrees with me! :D
Is he it?

(I'm going to keep posting people I think up that no one has thought up yet until I post the one you are thinking of) (or you could just telegram me)

Most overated person in history?

Well...Paul. Jesus was an okay guy...it was Paul that screwed up Western culture.

King Arthur dosn't count. It has yet to be proven he really existed. And on that note, Merlin dosn't count either.

It can't be Hitler, because he was kind of scary. It certainly isn't Einstein for without him we would not have Quantum theory, nucleur anything, or many of the computer forms we use today.

Most overated person historically speaking...I have to go with Columbus, Paul, or Muhammad. Probably Paul.

Doesn't this all go back to the fact that all humans have severe issues. Especially the ones that would aspire to rule the world, preside over a nation or say they are the savior to all the worlds people. Ummm, just typing outloud. I mean, who wants to do these things?

Let's see...

1)Did NOT 'get us out of the Depression.' Far from it; he may have even prolonged it.

2)He changed us from a constitutional republic based on limited government to a socialist 'democracy' of nearly unlimited government.

3)He deliberately provoked the Japanese into attacking Pearl Harbor (and if you're curious, there are a ton of books on the subject, all of them meticulously researched)

4)Drastically prolonged World War II by refusing to support anti-Hitler Germans (instead, arrogantly insisting on 'unconditional surrender'), just as he prolonged the Depression.

5)He saved by the Soviet Union from the brink of collapse when he recognized it in 1933 and began giving them massive aid, helping them become a military and industrial superpower.

6)He backstabbed loyal American allies like China, Poland, etc.

7)He loaded his Administration with communists.

8)He supported soon-to-be dictators and thugs all around the world, including Ho Chi Minh, Tito, etc.

9)Forever destroyed the value of the dollar by taking us off the gold standard.

10)Was a malicious and compulsive liar. (Especially during the 1932 and 1940 elections).

11)A lifelong, radical internationalist, he was one of the founders of the United Nations.

12)He made scapegoats of Admirals Kimmel and Short, forever destroying their reputations.

Need I say more?
wAS IT nIXON?

Most overated person in history?

Well...Paul. Jesus was an okay guy...it was Paul that screwed up Western culture.

King Arthur dosn't count. It has yet to be proven he really existed. And on that note, Merlin dosn't count either.

It can't be Hitler, because he was kind of scary. It certainly isn't Einstein for without him we would not have Quantum theory, nucleur anything, or many of the computer forms we use today.

Most overated person historically speaking...I have to go with Columbus, Paul, or Muhammad. Probably Paul.
Einstein never proved a single theory. He just sat around theorizing and mathematiziing and making oppurtinities for other, young scientists to win Nobel prizes for proving his work (or not winning prizes for disproving his work). And by the way, we'd have nuclear lots of things, we'd probably eventually have a quantum theory (Einstein wasn't the only person working on it).

anyone who has ever called themselves a military leader and wasn't walking in front of or with their soldiers. i know everyone's gonna harp on bush, but i think almost any world leader (esp. the infamous ones, e.g. stalin and hitler) qualifies for this.

Winston Churchill, if he hasn't yet been mentioned.

The person I'm thinking of was a prolific plagiarist, was called "the most notorious liar in the country," by J. Edgar Hoover, was more of an adulterer than Kennedy and Clinton combined, led hundreds of violence-producing marches, hired (and often beat up) prostitutes, was a pagan, an alcoholic, a full-fledged predatory sexual psychopath, a radical socialist, brought a lot of cities to the brink of anarchy, rubbed elbows with radical communists (one who was employed by the KGB, others who were convicted of bombing buildings) and even had many of them join his organization, and he is one of the most beloved and respected men in our country. That's all I'll say.

Winston Churchill, if he hasn't yet been mentioned.

I mentioned him.

Most overated person in history?

Well...Paul. Jesus was an okay guy...it was Paul that screwed up Western culture.

King Arthur dosn't count. It has yet to be proven he really existed. And on that note, Merlin dosn't count either.

It can't be Hitler, because he was kind of scary. It certainly isn't Einstein for without him we would not have Quantum theory, nucleur anything, or many of the computer forms we use today.

Most overated person historically speaking...I have to go with Columbus, Paul, or Muhammad. Probably Paul.

didn't Jesus lead Paul down that path. I may be forgetting some bible history.

The person I'm thinking of was a prolific plagiarist, was called "the most notorious liar in the country," by J. Edgar Hoover, was more of an adulterer than Kennedy and Clinton combined, led hundreds of violence-producing marches, hired (and sometimes beat up) prostitutes, was a pagan, an alcoholic, was a full-fledged predatory sexual psychopath, a radical socialist, brought a lot of cities to the brink of anarchy, rubbed elbows with radical communists (one who was employed by the KGB, others who were convicted of bombing buildings) and even had many of them join his organization, and he is one of the most beloved and respected men in our country. That's all I'll say.
Probably some Democrat...although I can't think of who you're thinking of...

martin luther king then roach busters?

Don Bradman, Australian cricket captain and supossed greatest player ever.
He finnished with an average of 99.00 I'll give him that, but the only reason why he kept that record was he only ever plaed cricket in Oz and England. If he had ever taken a tour to the seaming New Zealand wickets (Australia wouldnt play the Kiwi's in proper tests anyway), the flat, impossible to do anything on sub-continant pitches or a fast South African one he would never have been able to keep up such a record. By far the most overrated person in history.

Carl Lewis... he was on roids, we all know it.

Probably some Democrat...although I can't think of who you're thinking of...

Not quite. I'll give you another hint. He was assassinated.

martin luther king then roach busters?

Bingo.

too slow...

yay, what do I win?

btw, this is another case of history is written by the victor. If civil rights had not been successful in the US, I am sure most people would think of mlk as a villain, but because he was on the winning side, he is of course a saint.

By the way, every word I said about MLK on the previous page was true. Of course, you won't hear any of it in your high school history books...

Carl Lewis... he was on roids, we all know it.

He is more infamous I think. Along with the entire U.S. track program now. I am only watching the olympics for the U.S. womens soccer team. Oh sorry, football team.

Mark Maguire

Rodney Dangerfield

Bill O'Reilly

fanilows

Sean Hannity

Ulysses Simpson Grant is another one. Not to mention racists Jesse Jackson, W.E.B. DuBois, Rosa Parks, Al Sharpton, and Malcolm X.

Now, Booker T. Washington, he's a REAL civil rights leader. So is Jesse Lee Peterson.

Sean Hannity

Agreed. My left foot has a higher IQ than he'll ever have.

People suck.

scotty from star trek
and capitalization.....

People suck.

Except me. :D

(Just kidding)

Except me. :D

(Just kidding)
And me.

(Not kidding)

I love it, a sense of humor.
Not Roach Busters but maybe New Kids On The Block (especially the Christmas album)

Quentin Tarantino

your mom.

or to be serious, anyone who was involved in brainwashing the american public with the no-carb diet.

Quentin Tarantino

Don't tell Generic empire that...

You Win

Dr. Atkins

Don't tell Generic empire that...

Hehe, thanks for the warning :]

Ronald Reagan.

You Win

Dr. Atkins

haha. excellent. i'm just so happy that there is at least one other person out there who thinks these people are on crack.

He's totally overrated.

My apologies if somebody's already hosted his name...

um, also, maybe Howard Dean and Ralph Nader.

ok, I admit they're not people, but dolphins are way over-rated.

"oooooo their soooo intelligent"

No they're not, they suck. Quite literally.

I'm surprised no one said Alexander "The Great". I've often wondered, what was so special about him? All he did was beat the Persian army, a nation that was on the decline anyway. When I think of great conquerors, I'd rather think of Pompey or Genghis Khan...people who beat SEVERAL armies and not just one.

First person I can think of is John Wayne.

Anyone on a TV show ending in the word 'idol'

He's totally overrated.

My apologies if somebody's already hosted his name...

um, also, maybe Howard Dean and Ralph Nader.

Agreed!

This is so easy. The answer, of course, is Jesus.

Sure he was a good guy, and had a cult following, but c'mon. From a non-Christian perspective, he was just a hippie bastard child with a few choice followers.
*puts on a flame-retardant suit*

OH I KNOW!!!

Ghandi!

God also seems a bit over-rated. Made the world in six days? well.... that's what his publicists say anyway. what's he done lately!?!?

Roach-buster, is it one of those 2?

Roach-buster, is it one of those 2?

Not even close. See the bottom half of page 4 and see if you can guess it.

Florence Nightingale is pretty overrated too.
I'm sorry if somebody named her already.

Florence Nightingale is pretty overrated too.
I'm sorry if somebody named her already.

Nope, no one did.

Black dude, err. equal rights and all that.
What his name? MArtin luther king??? maybe?

Black dude, err. equal rights and all that.
What his name? MArtin luther king??? maybe?

Bingo. And everything I said about him on page 4 is 100% true.

I WIN I WIN
Do I get a prize?????

Sorry don't know much about the dude. But i can see that making a negative comment could cause a touch of flammage from PC people.

The person I'm thinking of was a prolific plagiarist, was called "the most notorious liar in the country," by J. Edgar Hoover, was more of an adulterer than Kennedy and Clinton combined, led hundreds of violence-producing marches, hired (and often beat up) prostitutes, was a pagan, an alcoholic, a full-fledged predatory sexual psychopath, a radical socialist, brought a lot of cities to the brink of anarchy, rubbed elbows with radical communists (one who was employed by the KGB, others who were convicted of bombing buildings) and even had many of them join his organization, and he is one of the most beloved and respected men in our country. That's all I'll say.
And J. Edgar Hoover has just SO much to be respected about him.

He wasn't a plagiarist, but a disciple. You're thinking of Gandhi's works, correct? He took those and added on his own thoughts.

Also, what's wrong with socialism and communism? Are you so closed-minded as to not even consider that maybe those forms of government could be better than what we have?

As for the violence producing marches, that was on the side of the government most of the time. The point of his marches was to be nonviolent and to not resist, but racism drove police to do some other things.

And the Anarchy bit? Ever heard of the battle of Los Angeles? Best thing that ever happened to that city. Ever.

I doubt so much that you can prove he was "a full-fledged predatory sexual psychopath". And what's wrong with paganism, anyway? It's a completely legitimate religion, even though I highly doubt he was a pagan, considering the fact that he was not only a reverend of the Lutheran Church, but also named after the Lutheran Church's founder.

Most of your facts here are so far biased, they border on untrue.

Politician: probably Nelson Mandela. He's not a god.

Music: popular:Kurt Cobain
classical: Mozart

Visual Art: Raphael Sanzio

Sport:David Beckham

Maths: Florence Nightingale ..yay pie charts

As for musically overrated, I'd have to go with boy bands in general.

Mikhail Gorbachev Gorbachev is a forgotten hero.

Reagan is very overrated though.

Sport:David Beckham

Damn right, dunno how many guys from "over the pond" AKA the americas know much about him but he is possibly THE stupidest and average sportsperson for the amount he is paid and hyped up to be.

P.S. I take it when people mention communism they mean Russian communism of the cold war era, not pure communism where everyone is equal? :confused:

As for musically overrated, I'd have to go with boy bands in general.

ABSOLUTELY!!!

don't forget the Spice Girls though

And Gelo's (or whatever) ass is nothing special

For sports on the America side of the pond, I'd have to go with Anna Kornukova as being the most overrated. All she's good for is a bouncing chest and the occasional panty shots. :rolleyes:

Winston Churchill. Jimi Hendrix. The Beatles.

(Just to check, Roach-Busters, you're not using either a) Hoover or b)a specific website with Martin Luther King in the URL as your source, are you?)

Winston Churchill. Jimi Hendrix. The Beatles.

(Just to check, Roach-Busters, you're not using either a) Hoover or b)a specific website with Martin Luther King in the URL as your source, are you?)
I dunno, man. Churchill and a couple of other dudes grabbed bombs dropped by German planes and lobbed them off the roof of a landmark cathedral in order to save it. It takes a serious pair to haul a bomb along a roof knowing full well that there's only a minute or so before it explodes.

And J. Edgar Hoover has just SO much to be respected about him.

He wasn't a plagiarist, but a disciple. You're thinking of Gandhi's works, correct? He took those and added on his own thoughts.

Also, what's wrong with socialism and communism? Are you so closed-minded as to not even consider that maybe those forms of government could be better than what we have?

As for the violence producing marches, that was on the side of the government most of the time. The point of his marches was to be nonviolent and to not resist, but racism drove police to do some other things.

And the Anarchy bit? Ever heard of the battle of Los Angeles? Best thing that ever happened to that city. Ever.

I doubt so much that you can prove he was "a full-fledged predatory sexual psychopath". And what's wrong with paganism, anyway? It's a completely legitimate religion, even though I highly doubt he was a pagan, considering the fact that he was not only a reverend of the Lutheran Church, but also named after the Lutheran Church's founder.

Most of your facts here are so far biased, they border on untrue.

First of all, thank you very much for disagreeing without a single flame or word of disrespect. Now, the answers to your questions:

(A)Yes, he was a plagiarist. Read, for example:

1.The Martin Luther King Jr. Plagiarism Story (Rockford Institute, Rockford, IL, 1994) by Theodore Pappas

2.Bearing the Cross by David Garrow

3.The December 3, 1989 issue of the British Sunday Telegraph

4.The September 1990 issue of Chronicles

5.The November 9, 1990 issue of Wall Street Journal

6.Plagiarism and the Culture War by Theodore Pappas

7.Certain Trumpets by Gary Wills

(B)I never said anything was wrong with those two ideologies. However, King associated with violent communists and communists who wished to overthrow the government. And King was a radical socialist.

For King's communist connections, read:

1.It's Very Simple: The True Story of 'Civil Rights' by Alan Stang

2.I Testify by Julia Brown

3.The FBI and Martin Luther King, Jr. by David Garrow

For his radical socialism, read:

1.Where Do We Go From Here: Chaos or Community? by 'Martin' Luther King, Jr.

2.The January 1965 issue of Playboy

(C)Yes, he intentionally provoked violence. Read an article that he himself wrote for Saturday Review (April 3, 1965) as well as Alan Stang's "It's Very Simple" (mentioned above)

(D)Yes, he was a pagan. Read 'Dr.' King's article "What Experiences of Christians Living in the Early Christian Century Led to the Christian Doctrines of the Divine Sonship of Jesus, the Virgin Birth, and the Bodily Resurrection" for details. And by the way, his birth name was Michael.

(E)As for King's sexual psychopathy, read, for example:

1.The March 31, 1965 issue of Atlanta Journal

2.Dr. Ralph Albernathy's memoirs (sorry, I don't remember the name...)

3.Talk show host Mary Starrett wrote of "a naked Dr. King running down the hallway of a Norwegian hotel chasing a woman during his trip to accept the Nobel Prize," and also said that, "According to one source, there are over 60,000 censored pages. While a small amount of this material has been released under the Freedom of Information Act, the rest has been labeled ‘Obscene.’ King’s own son has expressed the belief that his father was killed in a ‘massive conspiracy’ by those who saw the elder King’s behavior, long-term depression and alcohol abuse to be a liability they couldn’t afford."

4.Alan Stang's article "MARTIN LUTHER" KING, JR.--- PAGAN, PLAGIARIST, SEXUAL PREDATOR" I'll even give you a link: http://www.etherzone.com/2004/stang012304.shtml

(F)All this information, and much, much more, can also be found at www.google.com or here:

http://www.lewrockwell.com/orig/epstein9.html

bump

bump, again

bump

2.The January 1965 issue of Playboy

Say no more. You just convinced everyone who might would have disagreed with you. :D

I'm surprised no one said Alexander "The Great". I've often wondered, what was so special about him? All he did was beat the Persian army, a nation that was on the decline anyway. When I think of great conquerors, I'd rather think of Pompey or Genghis Khan...people who beat SEVERAL armies and not just one.

One army eh? Before he ever took on the Persians, he commanded -as a teenager- the Macedonian cavalry during the Battle of Chaeronea (338 BC) in which a coalition of Greek city-states was defeated. After his father's death, he had to restore Macedonian rule in the Kingdom of his father, defeating Thracians and Illyrians and after that marched south to fight the Thebans who had been revolting together with the Athenians.

And that was Greece. When he marched into Asia, he had to beat the Persians in three huge fights in which he was outnumbered time and time again (Granicus 334 BC, Issus 333 BC and Gaugamela 331 BC), smaller skirmishes (Tyre, Pisidia, Hydaspes, Bactria, Sogdia, Malli,...) not included.
Yeah, the Persian Empire was slowly decaying. But that's still a thirty million empire with armies ranging in the hundreds of thousands (estimates say up to a million Persians battled Alexander in 331 BC) with home-base advantage facing an army of 47,000 (only after the first two battles). Another thing is that he would personally lead his soldiers onwards - elsewhere here mentioned as something which not a great many "great" leaders did causing them to be considered overrated.

He's not the greatest of all time perhaps, and he was an arrogant boastful self-centered egomaniac. But he's not the most overrated person in history.

No one has mentioned Princess Diana yet. What did she do that was noteworthy?

No one has mentioned Princess Diana yet. What did she do that was noteworthy?

Agreed. If I hear one more person babble about her death, blah blah blah, I'll probably ralph.

Elliot Ness.

Most overrated:Puff the Magic Dragon.

Hillaroid Clinton

Overrated stuff (not mentioned before):
The NS UN
Heineken
Soccer
American Football
Neil Armstrong
Kill Bill (both volumes, though the first was worse)(not Tarantino, his other movies are good)
Ozzy Osbourne
Elvis
W Axl Rose

Alexander "The Great"

No one has mentioned Princess Diana yet. What did she do that was noteworthy?

blow-jobs and car crash

oops!
not very pc of me

Stanley Kubrick

I dunno, man. Churchill and a couple of other dudes grabbed bombs dropped by German planes and lobbed them off the roof of a landmark cathedral in order to save it. It takes a serious pair to haul a bomb along a roof knowing full well that there's only a minute or so before it explodes.

!!

Your source for this, please? I can't really imagine Churchill clambering about on St Paul's, lugging unexploded bombs about -- unless he was really drunk.

Stanley Kubrick

Agreed.

!!

Your source for this, please? I can't really imagine Churchill clambering about on St Paul's, lugging unexploded bombs about -- unless he was really drunk.

No? personally I think churchill was a pretty brave guy. Just look at his history.

Jesus

Ronald Reagan

Elvis

No? personally I think churchill was a pretty brave guy. Just look at his history.

Yes, OK, I'm not doubting Churchill's personal courage (although how much of that came from a bottle I don't know) -- but can you imagine the Prime Minister clambering about on the roof of St Paul's, looking for unexploded bombs, during or shortly after a bombing raid on London? His aides would have stopped him, assuming he was even physically capable in his portly old age of reaching the cathedral roof. He was 66 in 1940, for heaven's sake.

Maybe The Resi Corporation meant some other "landmark cathedral", but St Paul's was saved from an unexploded bomb during the Blitz. A sapper called George Cameron Wylie (http://www.gc-database.co.uk/recipients/WylieGC.htm) got the George Cross for his part in defusing it. The operation took 3 days, and I can't find any mention of Churchill being personally involved anywhere. Not that I'd expect to.

The best I can find is Churchill's personal insistence that "St Paul's must be saved" when an incendiary device hit the dome some weeks later (29 December 1940). Not quite leaping across the rooftops, but rather more what you'd expect from a fat old man with an understanding of the importance of national symbols.

when I see that his poster hangs in almost any studentroom as a cultfigure: Che Guevarra . The Dr. had his merits but against his will Fidel and youth around the world made an icon of him.

imo, it is without a doubt, mother theresa.

Far from being an altruistic humanitarian, she was brutal towards those in her care, believing it to be their own fault for being so poor.
Mother Theresa is known to have had friendships with one or more dictators. Tito (some Balkan country) , and/or the crazy cannibal African one.


classical: Mozart

IMO, You're right about that. When I listen to Mozart, I hear skill and ability, just not much personal feelings or emotions. In the end he was just a show-off.


Then there's Jesus H. Christ, Paul and the other guys, Mohammed
Ché Guevara, Ronald Reagan
Elvis Presley, the Beatles

when I see that his poster hangs in almost any studentroom as a cultfigure: Che Guevarra . The Dr. had his merits but against his will Fidel and youth around the world made an icon of him.

Heh. I think i'm the only left winger university student in the world that refuses to buy Che stuff. I agree with you. He's a cult figure and most people who have a che shirt, poster, boxer shorts or novelty condoms know who he really was.

Mother Theresa is known to have had friendships with one or more dictators. Tito (some Balkan country) , and/or the crazy cannibal African one.

-Buzzer sound-

Alright fact check time.

Evidence please!

The person I'm thinking of was a prolific plagiarist, was called "the most notorious liar in the country," by J. Edgar Hoover, was more of an adulterer than Kennedy and Clinton combined, led hundreds of violence-producing marches, hired (and often beat up) prostitutes, was a pagan, an alcoholic, a full-fledged predatory sexual psychopath, a radical socialist, brought a lot of cities to the brink of anarchy, rubbed elbows with radical communists (one who was employed by the KGB, others who were convicted of bombing buildings) and even had many of them join his organization, and he is one of the most beloved and respected men in our country. That's all I'll say.

most of that is bullshit put out by cointelpro as part of hoover's program to discredit and otherwise 'neutralize' all radicals and progressives.

-Buzzer sound-

Alright fact check time.

Evidence please!
Just a minute.I'll brb and edit.
_______________________
Good that you had me check , Black Forrest. Shame on me. Or was I not too far off?


http://www.digitalronin.f2s.com/politicalcompass/iconochasms.html

See question 18.

Turns out she was "an enthusiastic and uncritical guest of the dictatorships of Haiti and Albania, and the phalangists in Lebanon". Papa Doc Duvalier and the Stalinist Hoxha.

Part of Political Compass.org (http://www.politicalcompass.org/)


___________________________________

Questionable relationships
Critics regreted Mother Teresa's relationship with the right-wing dictator of Haiti Jean-Claude Duvalier, as when she received the Haitian Légion d'Honneur in 1981, and with Communist dictator of Albania Enver Hoxha, as when she visited his grave in 1987.

They complain that she has accepted donations from Charles Keating, who stole in excess of US$252 million in the Savings and Loan scandal of the 1980s, and from the British publisher Robert Maxwell, who embezzled UK£450 million from his employees' pension funds. Critics alleged she interceded on Maxwell's behalf, wrote a letter to the court urging leniency and refused to give back donation when privately asked by the district attorney.

Defender claim the received those donation before thefts were uncovered and that she had to lobby for her cause, therefore had to deal with dictators in poor countries and with thieves in rich ones.

from here (http://www.fact-index.com/m/mo/mother_teresa.html)

but I also go with Christopher Columbus. He hardly discovered America (the Vikings did) and he deliberately enslaved tribes based on the idea that he could. Even as an elementary school kid reading about how he conquered the Arawak tribe, a peaceful tribe, I sat and wondered "What the hell did he do that for?"

indeed - even at the grade school level he still sounds like an ass. but what bugs me most is the idea that he thought the earth was round and had trouble getting funding because everyone else thought it was flat. the truth is that nearly everyone with any amount of education or sailing experience knew the earth was round. columbus had trouble getting funding because he thought the earth was way smaller than everyone else did - that japan was about 2,400 miles away from spain as opposed to 10,000. everyone else told him he was an idiot because the greeks had already given a much better estimate of the size of the earth and his was based on a chain of two or three people each misusing numbers and units from older sources.

One army eh? Before he ever took on the Persians, he commanded -as a teenager- the Macedonian cavalry during the Battle of Chaeronea (338 BC) in which a coalition of Greek city-states was defeated. After his father's death, he had to restore Macedonian rule in the Kingdom of his father, defeating Thracians and Illyrians and after that marched south to fight the Thebans who had been revolting together with the Athenians.

And that was Greece. When he marched into Asia, he had to beat the Persians in three huge fights in which he was outnumbered time and time again (Granicus 334 BC, Issus 333 BC and Gaugamela 331 BC), smaller skirmishes (Tyre, Pisidia, Hydaspes, Bactria, Sogdia, Malli,...) not included.
Yeah, the Persian Empire was slowly decaying. But that's still a thirty million empire with armies ranging in the hundreds of thousands (estimates say up to a million Persians battled Alexander in 331 BC) with home-base advantage facing an army of 47,000 (only after the first two battles). Another thing is that he would personally lead his soldiers onwards - elsewhere here mentioned as something which not a great many "great" leaders did causing them to be considered overrated.

He's not the greatest of all time perhaps, and he was an arrogant boastful self-centered egomaniac. But he's not the most overrated person in history.

Yeah, but how good were the other armies anyway? The Greeks were not known as fighters- much of their tactics were "sold" to them by the Persians, they had been weakened by infighting (just a few decades earlier was the Peloponnesian War) and any time they tried an expedition it resulted in disaster (see: Athens' attempt at an overseas empire). The Greek city-states may have been determined, yes, but they were much better politicians than fighters so I don't think they really posed much of a threat to Alexander. Alexander may earn points for winning in exotic areas- I believe he had to beat an army employing a pack of elephants at the Indus Valley for example- but the fact remains that he still only really beat Persia. Also, Darius III really didn't get serious about Alexander until he had conquered Anatolia- by which time he was doomed anyway.

Pompey, by contrast, defeated several civil insurgencies within the Roman Empire and handily defeated several nations, including the formidable but weakening Antiochus in Syria. Genghis Khan was even better- the enemies he defeated- including the Iranians and Chinese- were very formidable, and the speed he did it in was even more remarkable. While Alexander didn't have the technology those two did, they still beat more stronger opponents than he did.

Yeah, but how good were the other armies anyway? The Greeks were not known as fighters- much of their tactics were "sold" to them by the Persians, they had been weakened by infighting (just a few decades earlier was the Peloponnesian War) and any time they tried an expedition it resulted in disaster (see: Athens' attempt at an overseas empire). The Greek city-states may have been determined, yes, but they were much better politicians than fighters so I don't think they really posed much of a threat to Alexander. Alexander may earn points for winning in exotic areas- I believe he had to beat an army employing a pack of elephants at the Indus Valley for example- but the fact remains that he still only really beat Persia. Also, Darius III really didn't get serious about Alexander until he had conquered Anatolia- by which time he was doomed anyway.

Pompey, by contrast, defeated several civil insurgencies within the Roman Empire and handily defeated several nations, including the formidable but weakening Antiochus in Syria. Genghis Khan was even better- the enemies he defeated- including the Iranians and Chinese- were very formidable, and the speed he did it in was even more remarkable. While Alexander didn't have the technology those two did, they still beat more stronger opponents than he did.

Eh? The Phalanx is Persian?

As to fighting? They put of a decent fight at Thermopylae

The Battle of Marathon was before the Peloponnesian war.

indeed - even at the grade school level he still sounds like an ass. but what bugs me most is the idea that he thought the earth was round and had trouble getting funding because everyone else thought it was flat. the truth is that nearly everyone with any amount of education or sailing experience knew the earth was round. columbus had trouble getting funding because he thought the earth was way smaller than everyone else did - that japan was about 2,400 miles away from spain as opposed to 10,000. everyone else told him he was an idiot because the greeks had already given a much better estimate of the size of the earth and his was based on a chain of two or three people each misusing numbers and units from older sources.

To get in on the Christopher Columbus debate- I finished a History course about him last year and I learned that his "legendary" status is based more on North American heritage myth than actual history. If I remember my facts correctly, in 1892 the Americans were going to host a world fair and needed a figure to represent them- and since it was 400 years since Columbus "discovered" America, they chose Columbus. In doing so, they trumped up Columbus to make him heroic, saying that he championed freedom and democracy, when he did no such thing. I do believe there is some value to him- after all, Columbus did usher in the age of colonialism, which would set up what would become the U.S.- but, yes, he has been overrated.

Eh? The Phalanx is Persian?

As to fighting? They put of a decent fight at Thermopylae

The Battle of Marathon was before the Peloponnesian war.

I'm aware the Phalanx wasn't Persian, but after Marathon (which I don't know how it figures here), the Persians did eventually subsidize the Greeks to fight amongst themselves, selling them military tactics. The Spartans eventually enjoyed a Persian subsidy, but then they grew too strong so the Persians switched to Thebes- who would wind up crushing the Spartan army. This went on until Philip II, by which point the armies were too weak to put up realistically with Alexander.

most of that is bullshit put out by cointelpro as part of hoover's program to discredit and otherwise 'neutralize' all radicals and progressives.

Well, I have a list of sources on page...8, was it? Feel free to check it out.

bump

Einstein never proved a single theory. He just sat around theorizing and mathematiziing and making oppurtinities for other, young scientists to win Nobel prizes for proving his work (or not winning prizes for disproving his work). And by the way, we'd have nuclear lots of things, we'd probably eventually have a quantum theory (Einstein wasn't the only person working on it).
Wrong... What else do you expect a theoretical physicist to be doing other than theorizing and "methamatizing"? Einstein discovered and proved many of the most important concepts in modern science... special relativity, general relativity, the photoelectric efect (for which he won the Nobel Prize), brownian motion, and also proving the relation e=mc^2. And all of his discoveries have been proven again and again by newly invented experiments, none have been disproven... there's also nothing wrong with allowing other people to build on his work, after all the point of science is to continuously revise old work and make new discoveries.

And there is no doubt that without Einstein someone else could have discovered quantum principels, but you could say that for any scientist... someone could have invented the plane without the Wright Brothers, someone could have invented calculus without Newton and Leibniz... what's your point? The fact is, Einstein (like the Wright Brothers, Newton, and Leibniz) was the first to discover all his stuff, therefore he deserves the credit. Of course there were many people who he got feedback from and helped him with his work, but Einstein should still rightfully be considered the greatest scientist since Newton 300 years ago... Einstein not only influenced science but also philosophy and other disciplines.

Another overrated person: Gandhi. Sure, he won India's independence, but at what cost? Look at how poor and backwards India is today.

Well, I have a list of sources on page...8, was it? Feel free to check it out.

but we have it from the cointelpro papers and the congressional hearings on the matter that it was all bullshit. the prostitution and adultery thing comes directly from a doctored tape produced by fbi cointelpro operatives to try to blackmail mlk jr into killing himself - tapes that were so obviously fakes that the media wouldn't touch them and instead they all figured out the fbi's involvement in illegal surveilance and intimidation.

you cannot trust a single thing coming from the fbi at the time, least of all from cointelpro. they were found to have framed people for crimes, including murder, which they knew the defendants were innocent of and in some cases had actually been committed by fbi agents. they did whatever they could to intimidate and blackmail people. they also had a policy of assassinating certain leaders of social movements. all highly illegal and all done explicitly for political reasons.

edit: just remembered, he did have a some extramarital affiars, but nothing like the fbi was claiming

roach,

I think you've spent too much time reading stormfront.org webpages, specifically martinlutherking.org . It looks like you've copied and pasted from them.

Do you agree with stormfront's attitudes? Personally, I think they're full of it.

Another overrated person: Gandhi. Sure, he won India's independence, but at what cost? Look at how poor and backwards India is today.
Many of Gandhi's personal opinions about abolishing industry and his ideas for radical communistic experiments I agree are unwieldy, however his main goal of Indian independence was the best course for the nation... under British rule the ordinary Indian people were oppressed by both European and native Indian feudal-style landlords.. India no doubt would be much, much poorer under British rule than outside of the Empire. The fact that a skinny Indian man who has the characteristics of being a loony is able to overthrow the rule of the mightiest nation in the world is testament to Gandhi's supreme planning abilities and insight. After independence India, rooted in Gandhi's ideals, became the largest democracy in the world the nation and the Indians are continuously reforming their society to be more tolerant, the princes and feudal system was abolished and India is one of the fastest growing economies in the world.

I agree ...Columbus is waaaaay overrated.

but we have it from the cointelpro papers and the congressional hearings on the matter that it was all bullshit. the prostitution and adultery thing comes directly from a doctored tape produced by fbi cointelpro operatives to try to blackmail mlk jr into killing himself - tapes that were so obviously fakes that the media wouldn't touch them and instead they all figured out the fbi's involvement in illegal surveilance and intimidation.

you cannot trust a single thing coming from the fbi at the time, least of all from cointelpro. they were found to have framed people for crimes, including murder, which they knew the defendants were innocent of and in some cases had actually been committed by fbi agents. they did whatever they could to intimidate and blackmail people. they also had a policy of assassinating certain leaders of social movements. all highly illegal and all done explicitly for political reasons.

Really? By the way, thanks for disagreeing without flaming. And Ralph Albernathy said himself in his memoirs that King spent the night before he was killed in sexual liason (sp?) with a female friend.

roach,

I think you've spent too much time reading stormfront.org webpages, specifically martinlutherking.org . It looks like you've copied and pasted from them.

Do you agree with stormfront's attitudes? Personally, I think they're full of it.

Never heard of stormfront.org before.

Oops, it looks like they've taken martinlutherking.org down. You can still see the front page in google's cache at http://66.102.7.104/search?q=cache:L1cqaQVNjgoJ:www.martinlutherking.org/+Martin+Luther+King+Jr&hl=en . But they say exactly the same stuff. And I mean exactly.

But like I said, they're full of it.

Another overrated person: Gandhi. Sure, he won India's independence, but at what cost? Look at how poor and backwards India is today.

They have been that way for awhile.

But today they are making real improvements.

Major freeways are going in! :eek:

The police are starting to work towards and agenda rather then themselves. :eek:

Standard of Living is increasing :eek:

A big reason that India is so poor was because for centuries India was not independent, instead they were being run by the British (and British-backed Indian landlords) who became rich by plundering the resources of the country.

Another person: Jimmy Carter. While he was rightly appalled by the human rights conditions of some of our allies (Nicaragua, South Africa, Rhodesia), he had no problem renewing ties with the butchers of Beijing or trying to renew ties with the butchers of Hanoi.

I agree Martin Luther King Jr. is a quite overrated. MLK was a womanizer and serial plagiarist, which seriously devalues him as the intellectual he is always portrayed as, but nonetheless I think his overall legacy in race relations has been positive for the United States and should still be valued.

More info on University of Nebraska's Martin Luther King plagiarism page:

http://chem-gharbison.unl.edu/mlk/plagiarism.html

Compare Archibald Carey's Speech
Republican National Convention, 1952 with King's "I Have a Dream speech"
Washington Monument, 1963

Archibald Carey, 1952:

We, Negro Americans, sing with all
loyal Americans:
My country 'tis of thee,
Sweet land of liberty,
Of thee I sing.
Land where my fathers died,
Land of the Pilgrims' pride
From every mountainside
Let freedom ring!
That's exactly what we mean--
from every mountain side,
let freedom ring.
Not only from the Green Mountains
and White Mountains of Vermont
and New Hampshire;
not only from the Catskills
of New York;
but from the Ozarks
in Arkansas,
from the Stone Mountain
in Georgia,
from the Blue Ridge Mountains
of Virginia
--let it ring not only for the minorities
of the United States, but for the disinherited
of all the earth--may the Republican
Party, under God, from every mountainside,
LET FREEDOM RING!




Martin Luther King, 1963:

This will be the day when all of God's children will be able to sing
with new meaning:
My country 'tis of thee,
Sweet land of liberty,
Of thee I sing.
Land where my fathers died,
Land of the Pilgrim's pride,
From every mountainside
Let freedom ring!

So let freedom ring
from the prodigious hilltops
of New Hampshire.
Let freedom ring from the mighty mountains
of New York.
Let freedom ring from the
heightening Alleghenies of Pennsylvania,
Let freedom ring from Stone Mountain
of Georgia.
Let freedom ring from Lookout Mountain
of Tennessee.
Let freedom ring from every hill and molehill
in Mississippi.

From every mountainside,
let freedom ring!

I agree Martin Luther King Jr. is a quite overrated. MLK was a womanizer and serial plagiarist, which seriously devalues him as the intellectual he is always portrayed as, but nonetheless I think his overall legacy in race relations has been positive for the United States and should still be valued.

Did you know, though, that MLK deliberately did everything he could to provoke violence? His "non-violent" demonstrators' antics included urinating on peoples' lawns, having sex on peoples' lawns, trying to disembowel police horses, etc. Can anyone really blame people for the way they reacted to Mike and his flunkies? But what burns me the most is that Mike is the only American with his own holiday. How could a womanizing, plagiarizing, violence-producing, pro-Hanoi, pro-Red Chinese, rabidly anti-American, compulsively lying, fraud be honored above Washington?

Descartes. He's overrated. As a philosopher at least... he was a good mathematician.

The "no one knew the earth was round" theory is waaay overrated too.

bump

Most Overrated - Karl Mark

2nd most overrated: Ted Kennedy

Most Overrated - Karl Mark

2nd most overrated: Ted Kennedy

Agreed! But I still think 'Martin' Luther King, FDR, and Ike take the cake for most overrated people.

President Kennedy is the most over-rated person in history.

More overrated people:

Nelson Mandela, the murderer/terrorist

George Marshall (a politician in uniform)

Colin Powell (who has been aptly called the black Eisenhower)

I agree Martin Luther King Jr. is a quite overrated. MLK was a womanizer and serial plagiarist, which seriously devalues him as the intellectual he is always portrayed as, but nonetheless I think his overall legacy in race relations has been positive for the United States and should still be valued.

More info on University of Nebraska's Martin Luther King plagiarism page:

http://chem-gharbison.unl.edu/mlk/plagiarism.html

Compare Archibald Carey's Speech
Republican National Convention, 1952 with King's "I Have a Dream speech"
Washington Monument, 1963

if anything, it looks to me like they both plagiarized samuel smith's song. people often refer to previously existing phrases without proper attribution. besides, it isn't like either of those bits of texts are the entirety of the speeches. and it isn't as if king claimed to never have heard of carey - they actually knew each other rather well.

the more serious charge of plagiarism comes from his doctoral dissertation.

Another person: Jimmy Carter. While he was rightly appalled by the human rights conditions of some of our allies (Nicaragua, South Africa, Rhodesia), he had no problem renewing ties with the butchers of Beijing or trying to renew ties with the butchers of Hanoi.
I'm not sure that Carter can be fully blamed for his relations with the Maoists in China though... It was Nixon who opened talks with China during the height of the bloody Cultural Revolution and by the time of Carter the momentum for better relations with China was unresistable... people thought working with China was a good way to combat the USSR and Carter was compelled by Cold War politics to follow through on Nixon's policies.

Hitler

he was in the right place at the right time, and was able to ride 6000 years of european anti-semitism to power.

OR

Jesus

Not that he wasnt a good man, he just wasnt a god, so thats kinda overblown

if anything, it looks to me like they both plagiarized samuel smith's song. people often refer to previously existing phrases without proper attribution. besides, it isn't like either of those bits of texts are the entirety of the speeches. and it isn't as if king claimed to never have heard of carey - they actually knew each other rather well.

the more serious charge of plagiarism comes from his doctoral dissertation.
Yes and such is the irony of MLK lifting material from "Basic Christian Ethics" for his college papers.

Lincoln
Columbus
George Lucas
Adam Sandler
Jim Carrey
Howard Stern
Gandhi
Any and all professional sports athletes
Any and all golfers
Any and all sportscaster related to the above two categories
Charles Lindbergh
Neil Armstrong
Charlemagne
The entire Kennedy family
Anybody associated with MTV and BET
Bobby Fischer
Popes
Saints
F’n Atkins
Elvis
The Beatles
The Monkeys
Michael Jackson and kin
Oprah
Rosie O'Donnell
MLK
Malcolm X
Jesus

*Takes a breather*
I’m sure that I’ll come up with more whenever I catch my breath.
*Faints*
*Dies*

If no one's said it, Dr. Phil

Hilary Duff has my vote. She is a Britney Spears wanna-be. She has no musical talent whatsoever and she can't act. Yet she is successful. Why is that? The Disney Channel, little kids don't know what talent really is yet and they like the bubbly pop music, so all of them just love her.

if anything, it looks to me like they both plagiarized samuel smith's song. people often refer to previously existing phrases without proper attribution.
Thats called plagiarism.
besides, it isn't like either of those bits of texts are the entirety of the speeches. and it isn't as if king claimed to never have heard of carey - they actually knew each other rather well.

But its one of the most rousing parts of one of the most famous speeches ever and it is passed of as MLK's. I admire Martin Luther King for delivering it with such inspirational effect however he has definitely appropriated not merely a few 'phrases' but entire sections. The speeches that I have a Dream is often compared to - FDR, Churchill, Lincoln, etc. - are all wildly original and do not just paraphrase large handfuls of existing verse.

Thats called plagiarism.

in non-academic settings, or where the phrase is already widely known, it is a minor fault if it is any at all. do you often see people citing page numbers when they quote "property is theft" or "those who trade their essential liberty for a temporary security deserve neither and will lose both"?

But its one of the most rousing parts of one of the most famous speeches ever and it is passed of as MLK's. I admire Martin Luther King for delivering it with such inspirational effect however he has definitely appropriated not merely a few 'phrases' but entire sections. The speeches that I have a Dream is often compared to - FDR, Churchill, Lincoln, etc. - are all wildly original and do not just paraphrase large handfuls of existing verse.

hmm, i was under the impression that the "i have a dream" bit and the "thank god almighty, we are free at last" bit were the rousing parts. the bit you are claiming is plagiarized is about 5% of the speech, and king never claimed to have invented it himself - the original version was televised, after all. and king had been using it since 1956 and openly noted the origins of it before.

was lincoln plagiarizing jefferson when he said "all men are created equal" in the gettysburg address? because he sure didn't invent that phrase, nor did he credit jefferson for it in the text of the speech. for that matter, was jefferson plagiarizing locke when he wrote the declaration of independence?

Also, what some of the nay-sayers are forgetting is that the "I have a dream" speach was mostly made up on the spot. MLK had a prepared speach, but he only read the first few lines of it before ditching the script and going off on his own.

The Devil.

Highly overrated. *nod*

The Devil.

Highly overrated. *nod*
Naw, Jesus is more over-rated than Satan, although Satan is REALLY over-rated, I've got to admit.

Cameron Diaz - I'm sorry, she's just nowhere near as pretty as so many people seem to think she is...IMHO...

Martin Luther. Rabid anti-Semite, and the spiritual forefather of Hitler.

I'd have to say that some of the Medieval conquerors in Europe share the reward. Does any one realize that Europe was a backwater in the Middle Ages? Plus, other great conquerors, no, better conquerors, existed in the world.

Queen Elizabeth 2 and her dead daughter-in-law, Princess Diana :gundge: . 2 members of Britain's most expensive welfare family, the Windsors. Britain would be better off in the long run if it ditched the Royal Family and joined the 21st century.

Also, Pope John Paul 2. Head of a sexist, homophobic, and(previously,at least)racist multi-national corporation known as the Roman Catholic church.

The Kennedy and Bush families, any member of. America's sad politcal attempt to imitate British aristocracy, something whiich shoouldn't be imitated in the first place :mad: !

Martin Luther. Rabid anti-Semite, and the spiritual forefather of Hitler.

He was an anti-Semite? I never knew that.

The most overrated person in history?

Hmm... It's going to get me into trouble, thus, this will be my only post here.

Jesus

John F Kennedy

He was an anti-Semite? I never knew that.

Well, the Jews weren't quite liked in Europe at this time by anybody, should it really surprise you?

The most overrated person in history?

Hmm... It's going to get me into trouble, thus, this will be my only post here.

Jesus
I said that twice, and have so far gotten no response.

Well, the Jews weren't quite liked in Europe at this time by anybody, should it really surprise you?

Hmmm...good point.

Unless you made the same initial mistake I did, which was think he was talking about Martin Luther King initially, I had to re-read it to comprehend the sentence.

Andrew Lloyd-Webber

Who?

Queen Elizabeth 2 and her dead daughter-in-law, Princess Diana :gundge: . 2 members of Britain's most expensive welfare family, the Windsors. Britain would be better off in the long run if it ditched the Royal Family and joined the 21st century.

Also, Pope John Paul 2. Head of a sexist, homophobic, and(previously,at least)racist multi-national corporation known as the Roman Catholic church.
That's why I'm protestant. Yeeeees.
In Canada, Jean Chretien; he was prime minister, I believe, 3, maybe 4 consecutive times in a row and HEINOUSLY corrupt. Turns out, most of what he did was try to cover up numerous scandals in office. Now, most of it will be hidden forever. Kinda like Watergate.

Agreed. My left foot has a higher IQ than he'll ever have.

You wouldnt be saying that if you agreed with him.

You wouldnt be saying that if you agreed with him.

No, I still probably would. Every person I ever met believes he's an idiot. From the little I've seen of him, their opinions seem to be vindicated.

M. Night Shyamalan:

Maybe he was never even rated but i had to mention him cause his new movie IS TERRIBLE!

i dont get the jesus thing so... why jesus?

Ghandi...
MLK jr...

Mandela. An ungrateful, bloodthirsty, anti-white, terrorist (and not even a good one at that!) whos done absolutely nothing to deserve the sort of praise certain sections heap on him.

Mandela. An ungrateful, bloodthirsty, anti-white, terrorist (and not even a good one at that!) whos done absolutely nothing to deserve the sort of praise certain sections heap on him.

Agreed! How anyone can think favorably of that murdering bastard is beyond my realm of comprehension.

Mandela. An ungrateful, bloodthirsty, anti-white, terrorist (and not even a good one at that!) whos done absolutely nothing to deserve the sort of praise certain sections heap on him.
Wow! a nation called Aryan Supremacy doesn't like a black guy! hold the front page!
This is news?
why don't you pick a white guy?

i dont get the jesus thing so... why jesus?
Aside from inventing Socialism (and getting nailed to a tree), what did the guy do? Honestly?

sacrificed his life out of love for everyone in the past present and future

but lets not get off topic

sacrificed his life out of love for everyone in the past present and future

but lets not get off topic
What? I thought he was convicted of treason and punished just like regular every day criminals. There is a difference between capital punishment and honorable suicide.

Here are two more nominees for Most Overrated:

Ernest Hemingway.

and

Bozo The Clown.

opal dont get it off topic so if u wanna argue it send me a telegraph

opal dont get it off topic so if u wanna argue it send me a telegraph
I don't want to argue with you because you're going to talk about unprovable "facts" where I'm going to limit my argument to the real facts.

fair enough

fair enough
Which is why, based on the provable facts, he is one of history's most overrated characters.

Which is why, based on the provable facts, he is one of history's most overrated characters.

based on known facts

based on known facts
Yea...it'd be absurd to do otherwise.

Which is why, based on the provable facts, he is one of history's most overrated characters.

He did start a religion that numbers some 1 billion strong...I think that has to count for something.

I can't really understand what people have against Columbus. It's obviously true that he wasn't the first person to "discover" the Americas (they weren't even named after him, poor bastard). However, he did find them at a time which led to massive changes in the political and economical landscape of Europe and even more massive changes in the Americas. Without him, we have no idea how long it might have taken for Europeans to find the Americas. It's true that the finding ended up pretty badly for the indians but you can't blame Columbus for that. He believed in the idea of the Earth being round, travelled to several countries and courted several kings to obtain funding for finding a new route to Asia (the earth just proved to be bigger than he thought, but this was the 15th century). Lesser acchievements and people get days named after them.

I sincerely do not care if America was ever discovered by stinking Europeans. It is certainly not worth the killing and holocaust of millions of Native Americans. You CAN blame Columbus for the killings of the Native Americans. He forced them to bring back gold to him, and if they came back empty handed, he cut their hands off. Once again, he got lucky and discovered Amercia by accident. If he didn't, the world would still turn.

Really? By the way, thanks for disagreeing without flaming. And Ralph Albernathy said himself in his memoirs that King spent the night before he was killed in sexual liason (sp?) with a female friend.For information and documents on Cointelpro see http://www.icdc.com/~paulwolf/cointelpro/cointel.htm

in non-academic settings, or where the phrase is already widely known, it is a minor fault if it is any at all. do you often see people citing page numbers when they quote "property is theft" or "those who trade their essential liberty for a temporary security deserve neither and will lose both"?
Your examples are little one liners and these few words are not a whole coherent argument, of a speech or essay. MLK however takes not just merely a phrase but line after line, nearly verbatim. In informal settings its not OK either... theres been politicians busted for plagiarizing speeches without proper acknowledgement. And when people write legitimate academic papers based on theses such as "property is theft" they do not just leave it at that, neither do they use more huge chunks of Proudhons words as their own... they expound on their unoriginal thesis, in their own original words.


hmm, i was under the impression that the "i have a dream" bit and the "thank god almighty, we are free at last" bit were the rousing parts.
Truly but I admire the whole speech... 'let freedom ring' has always sent a shiver down my spine too and King's inspirational abilities I think are unassailable.
the bit you are claiming is plagiarized is about 5% of the speech, and king never claimed to have invented it himself - the original version was televised, after all. and king had been using it since 1956 and openly noted the origins of it before.
Being televised doesn't mean a speech can be copied, and being published doesnt mean a book can be copied. Though I concede I dont know if King ever creditted others for bits of his speech and if he did then I have no argument. What I have a problem is that MLK is considered a demigod by political corerct circles now so that none of his faults can ever be mentioned else "RACISM!!"... thus MLK is portrayed as a morally impeccable, amazingly creative wellspring of some of history's great works... I respect King's stature as an organizer and reformer (and yes I also admire the entirety of I have a Dream and his unmatched delivery) however he is simply not the virtuous man or first rate intellectual that people always say he is.

was lincoln plagiarizing jefferson when he said "all men are created equal" in the gettysburg address? because he sure didn't invent that phrase, nor did he credit jefferson for it in the text of the speech. for that matter, was jefferson plagiarizing locke when he wrote the declaration of independence?
Jefferson was not plagiarizing Locke. Plagiarism means copying word by word passages that other people wrote and calling it your own. Jefferson basically copied previous thinkers' ideas but imitating ideas is not unethical at all as long as the imitator uses his own words to approach the subject, because the quality of the idea also depends on how it is elucidated, and Jefferson's Declaration of Independence is a succinct, original overview of existing Enlightenment ideas and how it applied to the contemporary situation in North America.

General Custer.

Martin Luther. Rabid anti-Semite, and the spiritual forefather of Hitler.
One time he even uttered “reason is a whore.” Wait, wasn’t he using reason when he started the whole protestant movement? Does that mean he likes being in bed with whores? Was he a gentleman of nightly pleasures?

Jesus



(waits for the incoming flaming)

Jesus



(waits for the incoming flaming)
*Flames*

Most overrated actress in history:

Sarah Jessica Parker - not a particularly good actor, and most unpleasing to the eye...;)

Jesus



(waits for the incoming flaming)


Your'e a bit late - there was like 5 pages worth of this a day or so ago...

I'd have to say Lincoln.

Tyrant Lincoln, FDR, Bill Clinton, the entire French assistance in the American Revolution, John F. Kennedy, et al...

Einstein.
He forgot he had a wife for goodness' sake!
Actually, some people think it was his wife who gave him all his ideas.

Also, while I'm only in highschool math and science:
The very nature of the Theory of Relativity means it can never be proven, which means by scientific method, it can never be a valid theory.

BTW, anyone here able to actually explain relativity to me? PM me or IM me if you can...

Also, while I'm only in highschool math and science:
The very nature of the Theory of Relativity means it can never be proven, which means by scientific method, it can never be a valid theory.
Yes it can. Ever hear about the synchronized atomic clocks flown at high speeds experiment?

Yes it can. Ever hear about the synchronized atomic clocks flown at high speeds experiment?
um...no...(meaning no, I haven't heard of it)
I meant the part about it involving the speed of light and such...
Again, an explanation would be quite nice...I really don't know much more than E=mc(squared)

um...no...(meaning no, I haven't heard of it)
I meant the part about it involving the speed of light and such...
Again, an explanation would be quite nice...I really don't know much more than E=mc(squared)

Well, the Theory of Reletivity predicts a few odd quirky little situations. By creating those situations, we can see if it's up to speed.

The theory of reletivity says that everything obeys the laws of physics in its own reference frame. That's why things can be at rest on Earth and we can think of them as closed systems, even though we're traveling at a really high speed around the sun.

Anyway, I don't want to hijack this too much. You take your two synchronized clocks, right? And you make one go at almost the speed of light. Because of that, it's in a different reference frame. It'll slow down in time, as predicted by the theory.

Some scientists did this experiment and the clocks came out not being synchronized. Hooray.

The last 20 republican presidents, especially Reagan and Hayes.

carl marx

80% of polliticians in general. I found more combined brain power in a couple hundered high school students than a lot of these morons (well over 200) combined. TiP (http://www.tip.duke.edu/) is 1337!

carl marx

Which one of the Marx brothers was he?

(or do you mean Karl Marx?) :)

Really? By the way, thanks for disagreeing without flaming. And Ralph Albernathy said himself in his memoirs that King spent the night before he was killed in sexual liason (sp?) with a female friend.

Alan Stang's article, which you cite as a source, claims it was an orgy involving several prostitutes, at least one of which he violently abused. It seems they forgot to get their stories straight.

Compare Archibald Carey's Speech
Republican National Convention, 1952 with King's "I Have a Dream speech"
Washington Monument, 1963


Um, dude, just cause they both quoted from the same song doesn't mean one plagarized from the other. It's a very well known song.

My country tis of thee,
Sweet land of liberty,
Of thee I sing.
Land where my fathers died!
Land of the Pilgrim's pride!
From every mountain side,
Let freedom ring!

My native country, thee,
Land of the noble free,
Thy name I love.
I love thy rocks and rills,
Thy woods and templed hills;
My heart with rapture fills
Like that above.

Let music swell the breeze,
And ring from all the trees
Sweet freedom's song.
Let mortal tongues awake;
Let all that breathe partake;
Let rocks their silence break,
The sound prolong.

Our father's God to, Thee,
Author of liberty,
To Thee we sing.
Long may our land be bright
With freedom's holy light;
Protect us by Thy might,
Great God, our King!

Anyone who has at any time or place been considered a martyr.

oh, and Julia Roberts.

By the way Roach, is there anyone you do like?

Jefferson was not plagiarizing Locke. Plagiarism means copying word by word passages that other people wrote and calling it your own. Jefferson basically copied previous thinkers' ideas but imitating ideas is not unethical at all as long as the imitator uses his own words to approach the subject, because the quality of the idea also depends on how it is elucidated, and Jefferson's Declaration of Independence is a succinct, original overview of existing Enlightenment ideas and how it applied to the contemporary situation in North America.

no. plagiarism covers both outright copying people's words and using their ideas without proper citation. doing either is a serious violation of academic standards and can get you into loads of trouble in an academic setting.

jefferson is as guilty of plagiarism as mlk jr is.

neil armstrong? any astronaut is not overrated...their job is tough

Yes, OK, I'm not doubting Churchill's personal courage (although how much of that came from a bottle I don't know) -- but can you imagine the Prime Minister clambering about on the roof of St Paul's, looking for unexploded bombs, during or shortly after a bombing raid on London? His aides would have stopped him, assuming he was even physically capable in his portly old age of reaching the cathedral roof. He was 66 in 1940, for heaven's sake.

Maybe The Resi Corporation meant some other "landmark cathedral", but St Paul's was saved from an unexploded bomb during the Blitz. A sapper called George Cameron Wylie (http://www.gc-database.co.uk/recipients/WylieGC.htm) got the George Cross for his part in defusing it. The operation took 3 days, and I can't find any mention of Churchill being personally involved anywhere. Not that I'd expect to.

The best I can find is Churchill's personal insistence that "St Paul's must be saved" when an incendiary device hit the dome some weeks later (29 December 1940). Not quite leaping across the rooftops, but rather more what you'd expect from a fat old man with an understanding of the importance of national symbols.

No argument, just thought all in all he was a brave guy.

and she was rabidly against stuff like sex education and condoms (who does that remind you of).

The Pope?

Joan of Arc

(annoying cow)

Jesus.

THE most over-rated guy in history.

Jesus.

THE most over-rated guy in history.
I said it twice, some other chap said it once. Neither of us got flamed.

Apparently there's a consensus. :p

Jesus.

THE most over-rated guy in history.
But don't let a Christian know. We typically don't like that sort of thing being said about him, because, ya know, he kinda died to save our souls, and we'd prefer NOT to burn in hell for all eternity.
Seriously, when it comes to religion, you can't really say that kind of thing, because, hey, we worship the guy.

But don't let a Christian know. We typically don't like that sort of thing being said about him, because, ya know, he kinda died to save our souls, and we'd prefer NOT to burn in hell for all eternity.
Seriously, when it comes to religion, you can't really say that kind of thing, because, hey, we worship the guy.
But it's the fact that you worship him that makes him over-rated. From a non-Christian perspective, Jesus is insanely over-rated, because from a non-Christian perspective Jesus was just an old-world hippy turned cult leader, who got killed because his beliefs conflicted with those of another larger cult.

Jesus. The guy may not even have existed.

"Jesus. The guy may not even have existed."

There are more first hand accounts of his existance than George Washington...but we don't doubt he was our first president.

Not here to defend Jesus as being savior..but we KNOW he existed.

I've been reading the forum...and it seems like everybody thinks everybody is overrated....
maybe all of history is a joke!

You guys set your standards too high. When people are esteemed in the way some of these figures are, you need to look at them in respect to your own life and your own accomplishments before deciding whether or not they're overrated.

I sincerely do not care if America was ever discovered by stinking Europeans. It is certainly not worth the killing and holocaust of millions of Native Americans. You CAN blame Columbus for the killings of the Native Americans. He forced them to bring back gold to him, and if they came back empty handed, he cut their hands off. Once again, he got lucky and discovered Amercia by accident. If he didn't, the world would still turn.

He did? How come he died poor? I don't think Columbus was THAT bad, all the other Europeans who came later deserve more of the credit.

Although Columbus didn't realize that he had arrived to an unknown continent, it certainly took a lot of guts to sail to the west, in a time when most people thought the journey would take so long that everybody would die before reaching Asia.

There are more first hand accounts of his existance than George Washington...but we don't doubt he was our first president.


Really? Point to a couple. Outside the Bible, please.

Really? Point to a couple. Outside the Bible, please.

It's not like i can name them..i'm talking about different scrolls and journals written by his contemporaries...
stuff by pontius pilot...herod...the like.

commenors who saw him...
soldiers who dealt with him....

the bible is the only record that is in mass production...the rest are artifacts that you cant find at your local library....

read the book "evidence demands a verdict"