NationStates Jolt Archive

:upyours::soap:OH MY SEVEN HEADED BEAST!!!!!!:soap:

SchutteGod.....that tree hugging,save the rainforest,peace love and flower,pot smoking wannabe jerry garcia,fish loving,acid dropping,let's all get naked and group hug ummmmm author of that ridiculous proposal on the table,we have too many important and neccessary issues to deal with and should not have to waste valuable tim on CRAP like that. PERIOD

:upyours:

ok i'm done

:upyours::soap:OH MY SEVEN HEADED BEAST!!!!!!:soap:

SchutteGod.....that tree hugging,save the rainforest,peace love and flower,pot smoking wannabe jerry garcia,fish loving,acid dropping,let's all get naked and group hug ummmmm author of that ridiculous proposal on the table,we have too many important and neccessary issues to deal with and should not have to waste valuable tim on CRAP like that. PERIOD

:upyours:

What are these urgent issues you refer to? and if they are so vital why have you been so negligent in not drafting a statute to deal with them?

yours e.t.c.,

O.C.C.-just to let the assembly know,i'm new and in the process of developing a character as a strongman who seized power illegaly my character is certifiably insane etcetcetc.. will be starting a open rp thread soon.

issue like industry,power generation,exploiting resources,The people need strong leaders,not pansies,only the strong and powerfull survive.sentient what is sentient,is my lectern sentient,is my apple tree sentient? a rock,what what is sentiente and why does it need prtotection.Get in the way of industry and die,only by advancing science and making progresss can the masses ever hope to be trully free.

O.C.C.-just to let the assembly know,i'm new and in the process of developing a character as a strongman who seized power illegaly my character is certifiably insane etcetcetc.. will be starting a open rp thread soon.

issue like industry,power generation,exploiting resources,The people need strong leaders,not pansies,only the strong and powerfull survive.sentient what is sentient,is my lectern sentient,is my apple tree sentient? a rock,what what is sentiente and why does it need prtotection.Get in the way of industry and die,only by advancing science and making progresss can the masses ever hope to be trully free.


Jolly good then.

I Move We Declare That All Refrigeratore Be Offered Full Protection Under The Law And Never Thrown Out Or Recycled I Further Move That Any Violations Will Be Cause For Instant Drowning In..........peanutbutter

It is the opinion of the collective body and mind of Atheas that this act would be of benefit to the good of our nations.

Glog think Candor person miss this post. (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=13892156&postcount=100)
OOC: Thanks. I did miss that one. I thought this was a game about creating a successor state to the U.N. as described in all of the literature in the FAQ, the explanation of the game on the home page, the context of the daily issues, the descriptions of the nations, and basically all other WA proposals I had seen since I joined a few weeks ago...none of which mention anything about alien or fantasy races. I thought a faction of players were trying to hijack it and change it into something else. I stand by my assertion that effective dialogue is all but impossible when all the debaters are operating on fundamentally different premises about what even constitutes reality...which I guess is evidenced by the fact that I wasn't even aware of what other gamers had decided constituted reality in the world of nation states. But I guess if I really want to argue public policy for humans, this isn't the place for me. Have fun with it, guys.

OOC: Thanks. I did miss that one. I thought this was a game about creating a successor state to the U.N. as described in all of the literature in the FAQ, the explanation of the game on the home page, the context of the daily issues, the descriptions of the nations, and basically all other WA proposals I had seen since I joined a few weeks ago...none of which mention anything about alien or fantasy races. I thought a faction of players were trying to hijack it and change it into something else. I stand by my assertion that effective dialogue is all but impossible when all the debaters are operating on fundamentally different premises about what even constitutes reality...which I guess is evidenced by the fact that I wasn't even aware of what other gamers had decided constituted reality in the world of nation states. But I guess if I really want to argue public policy for humans, this isn't the place for me. Have fun with it, guys.

OOC: Well, admittedly, nearly every *other* resolution will deal with more standard fare. Hence the desire to get this one out of the way early and have it done with. Of course, if it fails to pass...(sigh)

*snip*
Aw, dry your eyes. No reason to get your undies in a twist just because we elect to debate one proposal that isn't about the rights of humans...

And let's not forget "reasonable nation" theory, either...To bad there aren't any reasonable nations to apply it to.

I Move We Declare That All Refrigeratore Be Offered Full Protection Under The Law And Never Thrown Out Or Recycled I Further Move That Any Violations Will Be Cause For Instant Drowning In..........peanutbutterAnd I move that anyone who overuses the shift key be immediately defenestrated.

http://i176.photobucket.com/albums/w166/bak42/statler_waldorf.jpg
Statler & Waldorf
WA Representatives (pro tem)

O.C.C.-just to let the assembly know,i'm new and in the process of developing a character as a strongman who seized power illegaly my character is certifiably insane etcetcetc.. will be starting a open rp thread soon.OOC: You must have missed the sign over the door to the WA building, "You don't have to be crazy to work here, but it helps."

http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a188/kuroutesshin/15.jpg
Glog sees the squid.

WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Crawfishsnaketurtlemachine!!!

Glog leaps atop the nearest desk and begins running from desktop to desktop, scattering laptop computers, papers and liquor bottles in his wake. He runs across the heads, shoulders and backs of a crowd of Kennyites, causing one to drop a smoking pipe of some sort...

...another drops a bottle of pure grain alcohol...

...with a 'whoosh', a spectacular fireball erupts...

...somewhere in Knootoss, Aram Koopmann sits up in bed with an enormous grin on his face...

...the sprinklers come on...

WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Crawfishsnaketurtlemachine come to kill Glog!!!!!!!!!

Glog climbs the ornate floor to ceiling drapes, which catch fire behind him. Being made of the finest Cobdenian experimental nylon, the drapes burn at an impressive rate.

Glog reaches the top and lunges outward, barely managing to grasp the nearest light fixture. He begins swinging from fixture to fixture as panicked ambassadors and staff scurry about below him, variously trying to escape, fight fire, or shield themselves from the semi-functional sprinkler system.

He swings out and manages to grab hold of one of the sprinkler pipes and holds on just long enough to read the words "Made in Yeldan Nature Preserve".

The bamboo pipe (cleverly disguised as a metal one) cracks and falls, landing Glog squarely atop the head of the "crawfishsnaketurtlemachine"....

OOC: Your move A-A. :)

The thought echoed in his head, and Darvek nearly collapsed from the raw fury. By the effulgent Light of Heaven itself!

"Oh, Gods," he muttered, steadying himself with one arm while shielding his eyes from what he knew was about to enter the Assembly. The hall rumbled as a draconic figure barreled through the doorway. Nearly blinding light radiated from its body as it levitated toward the speaker's podium, deftly evading tentacles and blasts of ink as it moved. The psychic equivalent of angry cursing pulsed through the minds of those unshielded from such things, though Darvek knew that no damage would be done.

Would you dare deny me the rights under this resolution? the being demanded. Are any of you man enough to try? He paused, waiting to see if any were actually willing to challenge him. Sensing no credible threat, he transformed, gradually.

A few seconds later, a tall Kriovaller stood shirtless and covered with tribal regalia, giving off a surprising sense of dignity given his dishabille. "I am Serph, of Krioval," he said by way of introduction. "Few here may hope to hold down those stronger than they, but that is not who this resolution seeks to protect. It seeks to protect those who cannot protect themselves, whose intelligence and wisdom are concealed by the cruel vicissitudes of fate. Were it up to me, there are many debating here whose position in nature's order would be classified as, shall I say, lesser. And yet it is those who seek to deny the existence of sapience in others. Truly, if irony were dead, it has been resurrected in the World Assembly this week.

"In any case, the Great Chiefdom will see this legislation pass, if not on this attempt, then later. The very lives of the unenlightened may someday depend on it." With a wry smile, he bounded from the stage with surprising grace, and made his way to Krioval's designated seat. The ensuing conversation between ambassador and chief was brief, though by its end, Darvek's dark complexion had noticeably reddened in embarrassment.

A neanderthal, though an evolutionary throwback, is a dangerous creature and can cause much damage. Known as hunters of mastodons and mammoths, they can destroy great beasts.

But, you see, a gigantic talking squid affixed to robotic legs is a rather different story.

The flame-ridden Glog had a moment to contemplate, in his own special way, the brief pause after he had cracked a bamboo pole onto the "head" of the creature before him, if you could even call it a head. Really, it's more of a fleshy-mantle-thing that contains several hearts, an ink sac, and a complex propulsion system that just happens, in this particular individual, to have a spasmodic disorder.

Kind of like Irritable Bowel Syndrome, execept for teuthids.

"BleaaaaaaaarGGHHHHHHHHHGHHHHH"

Much honking ensues, and water, seemingly tons of it, blasts out of the siphons around the "face" of the squid, covering the already grime-ridden area with a thick layer of water, drenching the robotic legs supporting the cephalopod.

"Curse little man-thing! Now look! I've wet myself! How embarassing!"

Reaching out with several tentacles, he swats at the neanderthal, wildly smashing into the vacated seats at the front of the auditorium, forcing Glog to jump for safety. The slick ink/hydraulic fluid/water slurry now coating the area makes it's move- and the traction under the metal legs gives way, pitching the gigantic squid forward- right into the path of the caveman.

Somewhere, a woman jumps, screams, and points-

"Look out below!"

OOC: this is great fun. your turn!

"BleaaaaaaaarGGHHHHHHHHHGHHHHH"

Much honking ensues, and water, seemingly tons of it, blasts out of the siphons around the "face" of the squid, covering the already grime-ridden area with a thick layer of water, drenching the robotic legs supporting the cephalopod.

"Curse little man-thing! Now look! I've wet myself! How embarassing!"

Reaching out with several tentacles, he swats at the neanderthal, wildly smashing into the vacated seats at the front of the auditorium, forcing Glog to jump for safety. The slick ink/hydraulic fluid/water slurry now coating the area makes it's move- and the traction under the metal legs gives way, pitching the gigantic squid forward- right into the path of the caveman.


Setting aside the blue and green scarf she was knitting with legs 3 and 4, and deftly stepping out of the path of the careening gigantic squid and neanderthal, the arachnid rears back and gives a round of applause with legs 5 and 6.

Heez, heez. Veryz goodz squidz personz. Shelobsz heartz--tiny itz iz--goez pitterz patterz.

OOC: Thanks. I did miss that one. I thought this was a game about creating a successor state to the U.N. as described in all of the literature in the FAQI'm really not sure where you got this from. The bit about "mold the rest of the world to your vision"? Well, isn't that exactly what's going on here?

the context of the daily issuesYou must not have seen the one about AI rights, or aliens wanting to open pizza shops (granted, that's an Easter Egg), or the one that offers the option of turning an AI loose over the nation's computer networks, or dog/national animal hybrids occurring in nature, or genetically breeding super soldiers from birth, or growing flesh for consumption via cloning, or the one where a dog is elected to parliament, or... well... any of the numerous other silly options, results, and issues out there. I could probably keep going, but I'm sick of looking, frankly.

the descriptions of the nationsFrom my own national spotlight: "major internet servers have acquired citizenship and are voting in national elections"

basically all other WA proposals I had seen since I joined a few weeks ago...none of which mention anything about alien or fantasy races.That's largely because of myopic opposition based on people drawing too heavy a parallel between the world of NationStates and the real world.

I thought a faction of players were trying to hijack it and change it into something elseEven if this were the case, that's the entire point of the WA. Again, I repeat: "The WA is your chance to mold the rest of the world to your vision..."

I stand by my assertion that effective dialogue is all but impossible when all the debaters are operating on fundamentally different premises about what even constitutes realityThey could say the same to you, you know.

evidenced by the fact that I wasn't even aware of what other gamers had decided constituted reality in the world of nation states.And you continue to miss the point. Nobody is trying to force you to accept elves and moogles, and what have you; however, you continue to try and force their non-existence on everyone here. If you want your nation to be strictly realistic, that's fine: plenty of people do. But to continue to argue that such things don't exist is simply silly. Just as they can't force you to accept the fantastic, you can't force them to reject it.

But I guess if I really want to argue public policy for humans, this isn't the place for me. Have fun with it, guys.Feel free to take your ball and go home; we have plenty of our own.

Our Republic had no other option then to vote no against this unspeakable idea. The only thing that can fit the description of your proposal is a dolphin or a primate and those animals should by no law be granted to recieve the same rights as humans, if not only to protect mans rights.
If there truly is an audience for the proposol to extend human rights to other species, then i suggest new rights given to the species instead of extending human rights to other species (e.g.: "Dolphin rights" or "monkey rights").

the Democratic Republic of United Libertonians vote NO

Ps: didn't you guys watch the simpsons? dolphins want humans dead!

The High Council member representing Desh-Shrik would like to speak not representing the council this time, but would would like to make it clear to the esteemed ambassador from the glorious Republic of United Libertonians that some nations are, in fact, populated by sentient species that are not human.

Far, very far to the east of Desh-Shrik lies a huge sand-desert. In it live some creatures still in the ''tribal'' stage of their development. They are not as intelligent as humans, but they have laws and a spoken language and certainly classify as sentient, and if were to come to Desh-Shrik he/she would be granted the same rights as humans (where applicable) and as would other sentient and intelligent species.

And on a side note, I do not believe the Council considers most dolphins and monkeys to be intelligent enough to receive those rights.

-High Council Member M. Stuart (not speaking in official capacity)
Tuesday 5th of August, 13:37

dear High Council member Stuart,

this i say without my mandate;

first of all i don't understand why you have these tribal beigns in your nation that have their own laws and clearly lack humanitarian aid for further development and medical care, let alone education.
secondly, the people in my nation do not seek to share their hard-fought rights with beigns clearly not still able to write their names, let alone make fire.
thirdly, seeing that my nations only has dolphins and primates to be listed as 'sentient', they find the gap between them and these species to big to be bridged.
finally, i never apposed the idea for a resolutions which gave rights to these specific beigns an sich, instead of extending human rights to other species which causes alienation of these 'sentients'. I say: let apples be apples and pears be pears.

Kind regards

-W.L.

I agree with Kazan. I can't vote for Sapient rights. That's just ridiculous. I'm voting against it and as Kazzan said, I will support any motion to repeal it if it happens to pass.

A short pugnatious looking gnome, wearing studded leather armor and carrying a warhammer entered the assembly hall. Riding on his shoulder was a rather fierce looking War-Ferret. The gnome was smoking a rather vile smelling cheroot. He gave the gathered delegates in the festering snakepit a rather nasty look. He took a few more puffs of his cherrot before saying,

"Alright ya Marys! Lets get a few things straight. The name is Thadbroxton Kornweasel III, and I am Thain of the Short and Nasty Colony of the Gnomish Warbands. I, and the boyos in my warband exist. We're shorter than most of you humans, therefore we're meaner than you! The boyos are getting pretty damned tired of you human-supremists denying our existance and rights!"

The gnome gives a shrill whistle, and about a dozen or so armor wearing gnomes enter the hall and form up behind their Thain.

Thadbroxton continues after another puff of his vile cheroot,
"Right! Now here's the deal. The boys and I have decided that the next person who denies our existance, gets their nutsack turned into a speedbag. Lets see you make any more denials when you are curled up in a fetal position!"

first of all i don't understand why you have these tribal beigns in your nation that have their own laws and clearly lack humanitarian aid for further development and medical care, let alone education.
secondly, the people in my nation do not seek to share their hard-fought rights with beigns clearly not still able to write their names, let alone make fire.

This is amusing. After all, similar thinking has been used to repress people in nation after nation, time after time. If someone isn't as "good as" you are, you need to educate and "develop" them. Out of the goodness of your heart, of course.

And if they're not as "good as" you are, then they don't deserve rights.

Similar thinking was used by the Altanari, generations ago, to repress my own people. Thankfully, we've moved past that stage of our history. But the fact that such sentiments can still be expressed blandly and openly in a place such as this shows very clearly, I think, why we need this legislation.

-Arjel Khazaran, Infuriated Argali Representative and Deputy Ambassador

And on a side note, I do not believe the Council considers most dolphins and monkeys to be intelligent enough to receive those rights.

-High Council Member M. Stuart (not speaking in official capacity)
Tuesday 5th of August, 13:37

Senator Sulla's buxom vixen...err...secretary Velma (http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f235/HoratioSulla/Velma.jpg) gives the Councillor a sidelong look and points back to the large aquarium behind the desk where three very intellegent and foul mouthed dolphins are frolicing and making obscene suggestions to the moogles. She smiles and says,

"Care to take a swim, Councillor? I'll bet these potty mouthed dolphins will change your mind."

I had carefully chosen my words and said ''most dolphins'', referring to the various types of common dolphin, which, while intelligent, would hardly deserve something such as ''the right to an education'', as humans would.

I did not mean to insinuate that all dolphins were/are not as intelligent as humans and species of similar or higher levels of intelligence, but simply that many are.

I would like to make my humble apologies if you or any dolphins took offence.

-High Council Member M. Stuart
Tuesday 4th of August, 19:02

----------------------------------

dear High Council member Stuart,

this i say without my mandate;

first of all i don't understand why you have these tribal beigns in your nation that have their own laws and clearly lack humanitarian aid for further development and medical care, let alone education.
secondly, the people in my nation do not seek to share their hard-fought rights with beigns clearly not still able to write their names, let alone make fire.
thirdly, seeing that my nations only has dolphins and primates to be listed as 'sentient', they find the gap between them and these species to big to be bridged.
finally, i never apposed the idea for a resolutions which gave rights to these specific beigns an sich, instead of extending human rights to other species which causes alienation of these 'sentients'. I say: let apples be apples and pears be pears.

Kind regards

-W.L.

The desert in question does not belong to Desh-Shrik, nor to any other nations. It doesn't even belong to its inhabitants, for they, being nomads, have a territory that extends to wherever they decide to put up their tents.

Also, (most of) the species in question are in fact very capable of making a fire, and if taught the common tongue they can write their names as well. Their own language does not have written form, however.

If they steal or murder they can be held fully accountable for their actions, and they will get (and in fact, deserve) a full trial as anyone else which could be reasonably held accountable for their actions could, with the aid of someone with legal knowledge and a translator if neccesary.

By human and other standards the may be considered ''basic'' and even ''inferior'', but they're certainly sentient, sapient, and should to have the same rights and duties as you or I would.

It should also be noted they do not ask for our money (they barter, and do not have currency), our education, or for our way of life. All they ask is that we respect their individuality, and we act as such.

-High Council Member M. Stuart
Tuesday 4th of August 19:14

With the help of the Wencee Confederacy and other like minded delegates I have begun to draft a counter proposal to this act assuming at passes. If anyone wishes to aid in the writing of this proposal please send a telegram to either the delegate from Wencee or to myself.


Thanks again,
Ambassador Matt Bodner
The Republic Of Texas

I would also like to ask what all this talk of Trolls is about. Wencee is most certainly not one.

I would also like to ask what all this talk of Trolls is about. Wencee is most certainly not one.

Oh, OK, thanks. Than I didn't see Wencee before, it must be somebody else with whom I have talked about granting rights to non-Trolls.

But the Troll was very curious what was happening here. I said still undecided, but she was worried when I told her the no voters are in majority now. Still some change is possible.

Regards

You know, after thinking about this, I'm glad that we are only talking about giving non homo sapien sentients rights, as opposed to say calling all sexual acts involving non homo sapien sentients "beastiality." Mind you I wasn't here (or was it there) at the time, but it certanly did make that werepenguin Flash Blone mighty upset. Did you know he eventually married Amber Red-Brown. Yes that gal who is next in line for that silly nation of sometimes people in the region of Penguin. I hear they even became Catholics, that church will let anyone in I suppose. It's true, I think I read it somewhere.

"I would like to make my humble apologies if you or any dolphins took offence."

Velma chucked and said,
"Trust me Councillor, if they took offense you would hear all about it, in words that I dare not say."

Meanwhile all three dolphins took notice of the semi-mechanical squid roaming around and began yelling obscenities.

"Just what the <censored><bleep> do you think<foul word> you're<bleeping> doing, you ten legged<very vile explitive>! Why don't you <filthy word><dirty word> go <naughty word><anatomically impossible act> a Sperm Whale, you<gross explitive deleted>! Listen up you<censored>! We'll give you <bad word><yowzah> $20 bucks if you<vile oath> grab a <bleeping><bleep> Thessadorian with your <censored> tentacles again!"

Oh they did and people will, but im just monitoring the debate, and my grievances will wait until this is done. but back to work.

With the help of the Wencee Confederacy and other like minded delegates I have begun to draft a counter proposal to this act assuming at passes. If anyone wishes to aid in the writing of this proposal please send a telegram to either the delegate from Wencee or to myself.Well, "assuming this passes," I would be most curious to see a proposal that could possibly be legal. You cannot contradict or duplicate standing legislation, and if this passes, it would be just that.

I would also like to ask what all this talk of Trolls is about. Wencee is most certainly not one.I don't give a shit. Shut up about that troll already.

I believe the ambassador from the Texan Territories was referring to a Repeal when he said Counter-Proposal. Repeals are, as you undoubtedly know, legally valid.

However, the Council of Desh-Shrik, deciding to devote some time to the cause, has made a flag meant to mock ''the nay-sayers''.

(it should be noted this flag was not made by proffesional flag-designers, and therefore its quality can be debated. The Council feels it is the message that counts, however. It should also be noted the dragon was chosen as an example to illustrate sentient creatures other than humans)

http://i120.photobucket.com/albums/o196/KnightofTruth/SentientPeaceFlag.jpg

(Note also the Council invites ''The Opposition'' to make a counter-flag)

-High Council Member M. Stuart
Tuesday 4th of August, 20:16

Dear Assemblymembers,

i certainly do not wish to agitate the species or races that inhabit your precious nations, all i wish to stand up for is the fact that Humans are NOT squids/horses-that-talk/gnomes-that-exist/dolphins-who-swear simply to protect each race or species culture.
I also didn't mention anything about giving them LESS rights, i only said that we should review the rights given to each varient of sapient beign. And this will be the third time i mentionned this, but give Dolphin and other beigns seperate rights.

And if truly you cannot see the logic behind this then it's simply because our nation simply doesn't understand where these beigns exist. Only very few people have the leausre of travelling to diffrent nations due to our hard-working attitude and the distance to the nearest nation is almost unbridgeable for most. You see my dear collegues; it's not out of hate or superioirty that we deny this treaty, but out of ignorance.

Allow me to explain it this way; If you have to fight nature in order to survive every day, you just don't understand why some enviromentalists come to your house and sue you for chopping a tree and burning it's wood for warmth, just because in some other place people have come to accept trees as partners or because somewhere in our universe trees have advanced to a talking-saptient-lifeform.

This is why my nation and it's government signed a constitution which states:

§117b. Our great nation of "United Libertonians" is based on the preservation of our believes, values, society and heritige from threats within as from outisde our nation. We believe that we can only fully endorse the Liberal (Wo)Man as our leader in these matters of protection. But we will allow help from aliens within as outside our great nation.

yours sincerely,

-W.L.

The slick ink/hydraulic fluid/water slurry now coating the area makes it's move- and the traction under the metal legs gives way, pitching the gigantic squid forward- right into the path of the caveman.

Somewhere, a woman jumps, screams, and points-

"Look out below!"
Glog looks up just in time to see the falling crawfishsnaketurtlemachine. He dives to the left, narrowly missing being crushed under the weight of the mighty cephalopod.

Unfortunately, the floor is now coated with a mixture of ink, hydraulic fluid and water. Glog slips and slides around, trying to regain his balance. In the process, he manages to slip and slide right into, and under, Shelob the Ancient.

WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA!!!!!

Talkingspidermonsterthing!!!

Glog claws his way out from under the spider, but gets entangled in the scarf she has been knitting. He begins dragging himself on all fours in an attempt to escape. Looking up, he finds himself trapped between Shelob and b'sYA'jodih"Kho',ME"ah...

OOC: Gotta go for a sec. I'll have more later.

I believe the ambassador from the Texan Territories was referring to a Repeal when he said Counter-Proposal.Oh, OK. Although the resolution is failing, so it's kind of pointless to threaten repeal. :p

Now fully understanding the Ambassador of United of Libertonians' intent, I must say I nod my head in approval.

Some rights that humans or Species X have, should possibly not be extended to species Y, because it is inapplicable or otherwise.

The Council, while maintaining their vote for the current bill, hopes to see that if the resolution on vote fails, it should be re-written to include such clauses, and to note an equality in value of all sapient species. (That is, there is to be no discrimination against them)

-High Council Member M. Stuart
Tuesday 4th of August, 20:31

"Squid!?, here in the WA building?, it's about damn time they started serving Spicy Squid in Rum in the stranger's Bar", Kari exclaimed exicitedly.

"I believe one can already aquire such a delectable dish in that fine dining establishment already. This squid of imponderable origin is articulating it's, and potentially our, position in this debate in the WA chambers as we speak." Keelhaul calmly replied.

"So, we can get it really,really fresh then?" She replied, whilst getting a penguin from the munitions hatchery.

Running into the chambers, she sees the squid making it's descent to the floor,"Avast, thar she/he/it be, throw the penguins!!" as the penguins get their brief taste of waterless flight she ponders to herself "were the lethal ones on the left or right..."

As the penguins explode into clouds of confetti and candy, "Ah, so that's where the exploding penguinatas(tm) were".

Kari Kagrosi
Bloodstonian UN Pirate

I do not see how our asteemd collegue Kay contributes to the issue at hand with his previous statement?

OOC: It's called "roleplay." back when the WA/UN forum wasn't dominated by barely literate nitwits our official topics used to be loaded with it. There's also a Strangers' Bar, if you could use some refreshment, or at least some assistance pulling that stick out of your ass.

I am preparing to deal with the animals if they get rights...B/C if animals have rights, then they also must obey the laws. So when they are crapping on my lawn, they will be sentenced, incredibly unfairly i might add to severe punishment. Moreso, when they kill each other to eat or another species, they will receive the death penalty. So, all of you hippie loving, tree hugging, SOB's out there that want to give them more rights, you will be facilitating their demise within my borders and the killing of their kind. Congrats, hippies

On the plus side, I will finally find out what some endangered species taste like when I declar open season on them.

OOC: It's called "roleplay." back when the WA/UN forum wasn't dominated by barely literate nitwits our official topics used to be loaded with it. There's also a Strangers' Bar, if you could use some refreshment, or at least some assistance pulling that stick out of your ass.

I can see the need for some people to playa fantasy role on a forum and i do not object it. BUT this is a section of the forum where one tries to debate the issue that has been laid out for the WA to solve.
Whether you speak as a gnome/unicorn/dragon or stuck-up human is of no deal to me. However, talkings about giant robot squids that exchange bodily fluids with our dear WA-hall and others of my asteemed collegues is of no significance towards this debate.
On a more personal note: i find in no way your ettiquete towards me adequite.

Kind regards,

-W.L.

PS: If i choose to Role-play like it's something serious then that is my choice aswell, instead of frolicing with frogs and unicorns.

OOC: if you read my previous post a little more carefully, you will find my nations position on this proposal. I just decided to hide it behind some fluff and fun. Instead of just saying "Yep, I voted for this proposal, that is all" I involved all the danger and excitment of exploding penguins. which to be honest, we need more of ;)

AI aren't a biological species.Why not? Because they aren't "alive"? Define "alive". Define "biological". Define "species".

Who defines the sapience and sentience of a being?
Is this one for the lawmakers in each specific country?

I don't give a shit. Shut up about that troll already.

I would like to thank the Delegate from the Repubic of Texas for both his debate in opposition to this resolution and his defense of my name against some rather unfair attacks.

And I am glad more people are seeing the foolery of this resolution then the glory of it.

Also, if I wish to debate in RP style that is my prerogative I agree with United Libertonians, as well as to say the etiquette towards the Libertonians myself, and others is sorely lacking- And will probably continue to lack as this resolution draws closer to an end.

The Holy Empire of Bakamyht wishes to place its opposition to this measure on record. We believe that human rights are one of the defining values of humanity. Extending those rights to animals would fundamentally undermine what is already a precarious situation, and lead to more humans being abused by their governments. We must therefore oppose this proposal on the basis that human lives are more important than the 'rights' of fluffy wuffy bunnies (or for that matter fluffy wuffy anythingelse).

Signed

Markus Berens
Foreign Minister
Holy Empire of Bakamyht

Glog gnaws his way free from Shelob's scarf. Thinking quickly, he pulls the stick out of the United Libertonian ambassador's ass and uses it to beat the crawfishsnaketurtlemachine. The giant squid recoils in shock and Glog is able to momentarily escape.

Glog notices an unattended cellphone.

"Talking box thing. WA people use to talk to other WA people. Maybe Glog use to call for help."

Glog picks up the cellphone and bangs it against his head repeatedly. He sniffs the device, then puts it in his mouth and bites it. Frustrated, he throws it down...the phone flips open.

Glog picks it up, examines the buttons, and pushes one.

What Glog doesn't realize is that the phone belongs to Aüþgæþ Spøtyiú, Yeldan WA Ambassador. The ambassador has crawled underneath his desk to escape the rain of water and bodily fluids currently showering the general assembly.

The device is on speed dial and button #1 connects him directly to Felix Dzerzhinsky, Chairman of the Yeldan Committee For State Security.

A thickly Russian-accented voice answers on the other end:

Felix: "Who is this?"

Glog: "I Glog, son of Glog Crushdogskullwithrock. WA cave mountain have crawfishsnaketurtlemachine and talkingspidermonsterthing in it! Much fire! WA people scared! Glog scared! Crawfishsnaketurtlemachine and talkingspidermonsterthing try to kill Glog and eat him! Send help!"

Felix considers this for a moment...

Without saying a word, Arjan Khazaran and several other FSI agents form a protective cordon of sorts around Jaris Krytellin and Irina Misheli, stoically using their bodies, coats, papers, and briefcases to try to shield the Altan Steppes ambassadors from the slew of random objects, water and pure unadulterated ick raining down on the GA. The attempt is not entirely successful, but admirable all the same.

A rather wide-eyed Irina stares out from the makeshift barrier at the commotion. "Is this normal around here?" she asks. Jaris simply laughs. "I forgot just how new here you are," he says, gallantly trying to use his suit jacket to keep her relatively dry. "You'll get used to the madness here in time."

Irina does not look convinced.

Sir Cyril, surveyed the carnage infront of him as he emerged from under his desk, his collar undone & flapping wildy, his spectacles hanging off one ear, and the sleeve of his morning coat ripped.

"What the devil!?" he exclaimed, as he watched some Kraken-like beast and some kind of Arachnid over a very dishevelled looking man with wild hair and an a beard.
'Almost certainly a criminal type' thought Sir Cyril, a man for whom phrenology was reasonable evidence for prosecution. This did not, however, distract him from the clear observation that the other two creatures were clearly up to no good. However, he was not a brave man, and could do nothing.

All of a sudden, he heard a man shout "Tally Ho!", and his head was smacked against the table by a brown military boot. This boot contained a man for whom common sense was no bar to idiotic heroics - Field Marshal Sir Brian "Pointy" Blatherstock, who was now bounding over the desks, chairs, and delegates towards his foes, revolver drawn, and red cape billowing behind him.

"Capt. Miles!!!"

The commanding officer of the Genoshan Marine Embassy Securtiy Detachment (WA), looks up to see a visibly shaken lance corporal reporting in.

"Yea?"

"Sir, there's a huge ass fucked up looking monster thing in the Assembly Hall, sir!" --reports the young man.

"Oh?" -- replies the captain.
"Yes, sir! Someone blew it up earlier and it's raining blood, guts, and other shit."

"Are our people safe?" -- Capt. Miles asked
"All are accounted for, sir. It was just hella weird." -- replied the lance corporal.

"Well, carry on. Thanks for the report, Marine."
"Aye, aye, sir!" The Marine does an about face smartly, and exits the office.

Felix considers this for a moment...
...then turns to an aide.

"There is a disturbance occurring in the General Assembly! Most likely it is the work of hooligans and subversives attempting to disrupt the voting process."

"Dispatch a battalion of Destructor Bunnies™ to investigate the situation!"

"Send someone to retrieve Jones from his kennel and have him taken to the General Assembly!"

"I will go to prepare the DEFENESTRATINATOR V.2 personally and bring it there myself."

"Quickly! There is no time to waste!"

*****

"Cag? FAP CAG HRAK?"

Robotic Destructor Bunny #675499801-2b is in command of the battalion that arrives in the General Assembly. He quickly assesses the situation and determines that it is, in fact, a riot.

He orders his 1200 Destructor Bunnies to attack.

"CAG!!!"

The Bunnies, fierce as ever and armed with little wooden truncheons, swarm into the General Assembly.

Ambassador Lyiquin sighed, it was unlikely her contribution would make much of an impact now. But she had to speak up, though she was new here and had little knowledge of humans. The tall wolf like creature stood and started to speak:

“I find it strange that so many of the humans here seem to have reverted to the logic of the nursery. I would have thought that people sent to represent their nations would not stoop to such a level. I appear to have been mistaken.

To just say an idea is stupid shows a remarkable lack of mental agility. I was always taught that no idea is entirely with out merit and should be dismissed out of hand with out thought. Some of the greatest ideas that have changed the world were once just dismissed as stupid by those of rigid mindset. With out 'stupid' ideas the world would never move on and we would never advance.

Even ideas that appear on the outside to be stupid are often badly worded or go against conventional thinking. Those are the ideas that change world, this is such.

Even taking the premise that I and other non-human sapience do not exist, which is a large step in it self.”

She suspect most that had dismissed the idea out of hand were not experts on solipsism or systematic doubt, just in denial.

She continued

“The possibility of such a race coming into existence should be discussed and along with many others. Their implications to our world and world view are important, even though we self evidently exist.

The main question to me is this, and remains unanswered by those who oppose our position. How is the sapience exhibited by Homo sapiens in some way unique and superior to that of a species equal or greater, if the behaviour of certain here is taken into account, in intellect? The main opposition seem to believe this and have put up straw man, after straw man to prove a point that is not being disputed.

I will acknowledge that many of you have have no experience of non-human intelligence, but we have little experience of human intelligence. But, it appears unlike you, our wise females had discussed the matter at length and it was little concern when we met the first out side out species to be sapient.

Though it was not a human.

The only other explanation I can think of for the aggressive and insulting nature of those who oppose this motion is simple xenophobia. Though that I hope I am wrong about, as then to take the logic to it's conclusion would be that some humans view others of there own species, that are different, as lesser than others or not even of the same species. I can not believe that any intelligent species would do that.

I ask that all those that oppose this motion please explain why, and stop this utterly philosophically bankrupt argument that it is stupid. I call upon all right minded and those not blind to vote for this motion or discuss it sensibly, with an open mind.

Glog seems to be amongst the more civilised here on that matter and wiser than many that oppose, take a lead from an open mind.

Though perhaps not running about so much”

She smiled and took her seat. She was going to need a drink after that and pulled out her hip flask and took a hit.

“It had to be said but it's going to make no difference. In the goddess's name these are meant to be amongst the intelligentsia of these people.” she thought.

---
OOC English is not her first language. About her fifth or sixth.

Any and all sentient beings are also subject to fines, punishment, or any other kind of law enforcment that happens to be in that area.

Ambassador Lyiquin sighed "Well if your nation allows them income...why not?

Depends on what you define as what."

dear collegue lyinguin,

After hearing your last statement i must presume you have not yet throughly read the secretary's notes.

I did NOT say humans were better then others, i say these things cannot be measured as such to create a scale from smartest to dumbest.

It's not my intend to keep your races from acknowledgement, but this new law would be enforced upon nations who do not have the same races in such a developped stage. I have NEVER said that humans should have MORE rights then other beigns, heck, perhaps other beigns deserve more rights then humans.
Giving all races the same rights makes NO sense, let apples be apples and pears be pears, i'll repeat it again; give to each race their own rights. Humans are diffrent from robotsquids or other anomailties, so why consider them equal? Don't DESTROY diversity but EMBRACE it.

And then there is still the fact that my nation doesn't have the same anomilites as other WA-members here, therefor my nation and it's elected government see no reason as to why we should allow beigns non-existant to our people, to be given the same rights. Furthermore there is our constitution that every member of our community has signed and cherishes:

§117b. Our great nation of "United Libertonians" is based on the preservation of our believes, values, society and heritige from threats within as from outisde our nation. We believe that we can only fully endorse the Liberal (Wo)Man as our leader in these matters of protection. But we will allow help from aliens within as outside our great nation.

And these new rights would clearly be against our constitution, for then every race should be allowed to interfere with our nation whilst we swore to defend what our race has build from outside influeces.
look at it as a fruitsalade; what if you start with making just an apples fruitsalade, but then such a things as "all fruits are the same"-laws come, causing pears to join our fruitsalade, destroying or maybe enhancing what we used to love so preciously. There i said it, perhaps extending the rights to other beigns CAN improve society, but it can also do the opposite. This i cannot risk and even if i chose to risk it, i still wouldn't be allowed to by our constitution.


-Kind Regards

-W.L.

Ambassador Lyiquin smiled "Where in this motion is that enforced? I see no place that they even have to acknowledge the existence of such creature. There are many get out clauses.

How ever perhaps we might talk friendship as civilised people you might want to might a non double you Ah friend. Our protector.

As for you argument it harms you not if you give beings you believe not to exist rights. QED look good and pay nothing."

We simply choose to keep what is International seperated from what is national;
we accept the rules outside our national habitat, but we simply choose not to accept rules imposed on us from the outside.

Ambassador Lyiquin bows to the ambassador from United Libertonians and asks "Is trade possible as with out rights our people will not trade with you, and more importantly our protector will not either.

There is a good chance of a mutual agreement, if this motion passes it would not require this.

We understand your stand on sovereignty as our protector refuses membership here due to it infringing on theirs.

But thinking about it doesn't it put in in an untenable position when a motion that does effect your internal matter pass?

I ask only out of interest."

"The Empire of Monte Belle applauds this socially progressive movement, but, unfortunately, will not support it.

The people of Monte Belle and their government feel it is superfluous to give basic rights to creatures that have a basic sentience, while the realm of man is filled with social injustices, civil-rights violations on a daily basis.

We cannot support giving universal rights to non-human beings, as mankind itself does not know of such a thing. When the day comes when all of man is treated equally and fairly and this issue is returned to attention...

The Empire of Monte Belle will give its full support, but until then...

We, respectfully, reject said resolution.

~Empire of Monte Belle W.A. Ambassador~ William Da'rand

Ambassador Lyiquin Screams (half a hip flask though of inteerie whisky) "Not universal rights equal rights!

You people don't get it we just want equal rights! Sapience is sapience, what is the problem here!

It is a simple piece of logic I will back down if a everyone here agrees to support a sapience equality bill. How do you idiot humans keep missing the point!!!! Either You believe one race has the sole right to rights as sapient or you don't!

It is not tricky."

Ambassador Lyiquin pulled out a back up hip flask, the Calie had figured she would need it. Se was now openly snarling.

"This is what the humans have, why are we even bothering, the Calie have the right idea" she was thinking. She had got this position though her intelligence and skill. Goddess she should have found a chimp (what ever that might be) to do the job.

"The Dominion of Faereyjar shall cast its vote against the current proposal, the Sentients Rights Act. It is not the policy of our sovereign state to entertain discussions of mythical, imagined or otherwise nonexistent beings that distract from the pivotal issues confronting the citizens of the member states of the World Assembly. We state unequivocally that no scientifically recognized sentient being that exists at present demonstrates functionality equal to the Homo sapiens, and therefore no such organism should be elevated to a legal stature which recognizes them as an equal. The statements of those who claim to be of such species, or who claim to have prior knowledge of such species, are rejected out of hand by this government as total idiocy. Furthermore, there has been evidence within this very discussion that hard-fought and necessary regulatory measures enacted to protect wildlife, such as those proudly maintained in the Dominion of Faereyjar, would be severely endangered by this proposal. For this reason, we shall petition our neighboring states and allies to vote against the current proposal."

Ambassador Lyiquin waves.

Ambassador Lyiquin throws her pen, a good shot between the eyes at the representative from Faereyjar and shouts "I don't exist You must be mad!".

Ambassador Lyiquin calms down and asks "Even if my kind do not exist is it not a valid question is human to an other sapience equal?

Ignoring a question does not make it go away. I am getting more annoyed with the inflexibility that human thought seems to cause so will leave the chamber. Answer the question! Don't ignore it!"

Lyiquin threw the content of her desk on the floor and shouted "What is the point of this place if not for rational debate!"

The WA had turned an idealist into a cynic in a day.

Oh, OK. Although the resolution is failing, so it's kind of pointless to threaten repeal. :pIn fact the only point we see is the one on their head.

Why not? Because they aren't "alive"? Define "alive". Define "biological". Define "species".

Or, you could look up the word artificial (http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/artificial).

http://i176.photobucket.com/albums/w166/bak42/statler_waldorf.jpg
Statler & Waldorf
WA Representatives (pro tem)

Ambassador Lyiquin smiles "A fight is never over till you don't see it any more, either by cowardice or death. Every fight can be won some other way, ask the teerie, they are a race that have no word for surrender.

I mean there's a gap in their dictionary, the concept evades them."

This was looking pretty good up until here:

Declares that member nations shall determine which biological species residing in their own borders possess sentient or sapient qualities.

This proposal informs member nations they have the authority to make decisions. Unfortunately, we don't see it going further than that.

"Fair and even-handed" can be interpreted a thousand ways, because the same number of ideals of fairness exist.

The proposal requires that "valid and confirmed scientific evidence" must be brought forth for consideration, but does not specifically require that corresponding decisions must be made as a result. Especially if this would conflict with the vague "even-handed" requirement.

The prevention of "deliberate, unprovoked harm" doesn't work, because any government can argue that their actions were "provoked" by something or another. This is far too broad.

Instead of being simply ineffective, I believe this proposal is quite detrimental to the anti-discrimination cause. Not only does it allow each and every nation to decide what 'discrimination' really is, by requiring they define the term 'fairness' - but it also overlooks acts such as 'provoked' extermination, and would obviously block the way of a more suitable resolution.

Even taking its good intentions into account, and the fact that the author has admirably attempted to address the problem the WA is forever facing when applying laws to non-human beings, I don't feel this proposal is built on strong enough foundations to properly serve its purpose.

Our region's vote will be cast AGAINST the Sentients Rights Act.

_______________________
CoN Lord Chancellor
Delegate of The Council of Narnia

"It seems," Serph said, parrying blasts of ink and other unmentionable liquids with a flick of his left hand, "that Felix has become apprised of our situation here."

"You mean...?"

"Yes. We should probably begin opening the windows. Or closing them. I forget his preference."

"The Dominion of Faereyjar shall cast its vote against the current proposal, the Sentients Rights Act. It is not the policy of our sovereign state to entertain discussions of mythical, imagined or otherwise nonexistent beings that distract from the pivotal issues confronting the citizens of the member states of the World Assembly. We state unequivocally that no scientifically recognized sentient being that exists at present demonstrates functionality equal to the Homo sapiens, and therefore no such organism should be elevated to a legal stature which recognizes them as an equal. The statements of those who claim to be of such species, or who claim to have prior knowledge of such species, are rejected out of hand by this government as total idiocy. Furthermore, there has been evidence within this very discussion that hard-fought and necessary regulatory measures enacted to protect wildlife, such as those proudly maintained in the Dominion of Faereyjar, would be severely endangered by this proposal. For this reason, we shall petition our neighboring states and allies to vote against the current proposal."

"By the effulgent Light of Heaven," the Great Chief continued, unperturbed, "it appears another nation has fallen victim to self-delusion. Strangely, they seem to believe themselves equipped to judge the idiocy of others. What an outlandish proposition. It's just like those Christ worshippers!"

"Chief..."

"No, Darvek! Those people cost Krioval one of the biggest trade contracts of the decade because they didn't like the language on natural selection. Our economy dropped from Frightening to All-Consuming. We were on the verge of altering the very laws of economics by consuming more than all, and now we're back where we started because they see stuff that doesn't exist. Meanwhile the yahoos from Fey-something or other don't see stuff that's right in front of them. Gods preserve us all!"

OOC: Once again, we look to the Pacifics...and hope.

The Most Holy Bishop of Gabriel Possenti sighed at his cabinet minister.

"I already voted against it. Why are you here?"

"I understand you've gotten some communications from folks attempting to clarify the proposal so that you may reverse your decision."

"I didn't bother reading it. It went straight into File Thirteen just before lunch."

"I know, Your Grace. It was fished out of your trash bin and sent to Intelligence."

The Most Holy Bishop smirked.

"Finally," he said, "Our guys are doing something proactive. They turned it over to the Analysis Section, I presume?"

"Yes, Your Grace," said the cabinet minister cautiously. "They confirm what you already stated so succinctly, but here is the proof you may have been looking for, had you been looking for it."

"Mmmmhmm," said the Most Holy Bishop, sipping his before-bed brandy. "Get on with it. I have an appointment with a...ah...Spiritual Advisor in a very Intimate Matter soon."

"Here is what we came up with, Your Grace," said the cabinet minister.


provided that the process involved is fair and even-handed and excludes potential conflicts of interest, that all available valid and confirmed scientific evidence is taken into account, and that denials of sentient or sapient status can be appealed to a higher, disinterested official or body within the government;


"From this paragraph," said the Cabinet Minister, "we found that the phrase 'fair and even-handed' is too vague and can be twisted to mean pretty much anything the powers that be want it to mean."

"Of course," said the Most Holy Bishop. "I use the phrase myself, usually just before sentencing to public execution. Not to mention a certain media outlet absolutely adores a version of this phrase and their drivel is some of the most slanted in the Theocracy. Simply labeling something does not indeed make it so. Without some hard, specific parameters, this phrase is worthless. It's like saying 'You're free because the Most Holy Bishop says you are.' Right. Do go on."

"Also, 'excludes potential conflicts of interest' just invites administrative red tape," continued the cabinet minister.

"You've been in office a while, I see," mused the Most Holy Bishop.

"Yes, Your Grace," agreed the cabinet minister. "Shall I continue?"

"By all means," said the Most Holy Bishop. "I'm getting a chuckle out of it so far."

"When we get to 'all available and valid scientific evidence', we know that while peer review is generally approved of for validity, it is known that only a few prominent scientists may actually skew the statistics."

"Done it m'self when it suited me," chuckled the Most Holy Bishop, taking another sip of Brandy.

"And 'disinterested official or body within the government' simply means that in order to consider anyone but a human to be non-sentient, you, Your Grace, may simply declare it so."

"Which I do already. Why the heck do I need legislation to give approval for what I'm going to do anyway? Pointless, redundant, vague, and just a really good idea on paper that doesn't translate well to the Theocracy, especially while I'm in charge. So, we're still Against, right?"

"Intelligence is advising you not to change your vote, Your Grace."

"That's good, because I ain't. Now scoot. I got a date...er, I mean, a meeting with one of my more shapely Spiritual Advisors."

"Very good, Your Grace. Goodnight." And the cabinet minister retreated from the Most Holy Bishop's office.

"Belinda," whispered the Most Holy Bishop to the door to his bedroom, "he's gone, and my spirit needs lifting."

What occurred next is obscured by the delightful cover of darkness as the Most Holy Bishop of the Theocracy of Gabriel Possenti extinguished his reading lamp.

GP

*Lord Faolan finally stands up to add his opinion on the matter*

I have discussed the issue with my fellow ambassadors, and we have unanimously found it to be a proposal based on the principles of Equality and Enlightenment that our nation holds dear.

But we vote against it.


To be more specific we vote against it's current form. We all found one passage to be of a very disturbing nature.

...Noting that this legislation applies only to natural biological sapient species...

The Kingdom of Gruatha finds this to be remarkably short sighted. In our own nation, and in many other countries there are attempts to clone humans and create thinking robots with souls. These are not by any means "natural". Are they then exempt from all the legal protections and benefits that we are affording others?

Until this legislation is reworded to take these groups into account we will find it improper to support it.

*Faolan sits down awkwardly, unsure how to end*

I'm now going to admit, that there is some vagueness in the wording of the resolution (and that's only from reading the first two pages of debate); as a result, I am changing my position on this resolution to oppose the resolution. There are a lot of questions that still require an answer, and, if such questions were addressed properly in another draft of the resolution (which I would pedantically peruse and analyze), I would certainly consider giving it my support.

Horgen Dush
Representative, Nomadic Peoples of Damanucus
Regional Delegate, The Galapagos Islands

In the Name of the Eternal Kawaii, may the Cute One be praised

We rise in opposition to this proposal. However, unlike many of the representatives here, we do not reject the presence of non-human sentients and sapients--the gathered representatives here are proof enough of that. Our concern is that this proposal is too vague when it comes to defining sentients and sapients, and places too much emphasis on individual nation's determining of the same. We would be most distressed if, for example, the Sanrio kittens which have accompanied our tribes during their resettlement in new lands were to be declared non-sentient by a tribe's host nation. Sentience and sapience must be universally recognized if they are to have any meaning at all.

[The WA Nuncia of the Eternal Kawaii finishes her speech, and adds the following.]

To set the record straight regarding the straw poll being taken on this proposal: It is folly to attempt to appease Lord Gojira. Those who have tried it usually end up stepped-on.

Myz scarvez! Howsz oldz Shelobz stayz warmsz thiszz tlksk winterz?! Hopez Geicoz firesz cavemansz.

Out of her left eye, Shelob notices a man, with red cape flying, bounding toward the melee. The weapon in his hand registers on her proto-brain, causing her to shoot a spindle of webbing out of her spinnerette ankle high just in front of him. The sticky mass attaches itself to the desk opposite her and waits for its intended.

As the web strand is pulled taut, the old one hears the sweet, calm voice of the Kawaiian...

Ahz, honorable Nunciaz. Speaksz truthesz yessz. Maybe writesz next attemptz yessz?

How did this load of drek make it past the vetting process?

Crickey, beyond the obvious stupidity, the included line:

Obligates member states to take all prudent and necessary measures to protect all sentient creatures under their jurisdiction from deliberate, unprovoked harm, violence, killings, or extermination

would basically force us all into being vegitarians...

The region of Firefly not only votes no, we vote hell no...

"Jien tah-duh guay!"

I think the worlds civil right should be improved. I mean look at the world right now most of it is filled with anarchic scum. If we do not fix this that will spread and soon most of the world will be filled with the nations with bad governments. That is what i think.

How did this load of drek make it past the vetting process?

Crickey, beyond the obvious stupidity, the included line:

Obligates member states to take all prudent and necessary measures to protect all sentient creatures under their jurisdiction from deliberate, unprovoked harm, violence, killings, or extermination

would basically force us all into being vegitarians...

The region of Firefly not only votes no, we vote hell no...

"Jien tah-duh guay!"
If you would have read it it says unprovoked does eating cout as provoked or not anymore if it doesnt i didnt get that memo

At the sight of the young Kawaiian Nuncio, the dolphins started to chitter excitedly among themselves. If one could look closely enough they would be shocked to find the dolphinic mouths shaped in an almost evil smile. There also seemed to be a malicious glint in their eyes. It had been a long time since the Navy Dolphins from the Palentine had a chance to swear at a citizen of the Gojira Stomped nation of Hello Kitty worshippers. One of the dolphins swam into the portal, while the others waited in anticipation. A minute later, the dolphin came back with seven more dolphins following. With pure unadulterated malicious glee, the pod of dolphins started heaping curses and foul epitaths on the young Kawaiian.

"How the <censored><bleep><foul word> are you! Long<bleeping> time, no<censored>see! Did you<gross word><vile word><filthy oath> miss us? If you <bleeping><bleep> think you are going to <anatomically impossible act> get away without being <dirty word> cussed at, you are abso<bleeping>lutely mistaken, you <very gross and obscene explitive>!

<very long strand of dirty words interspersed with mocking dolphinic laughter>

I just wanted to point out that if this resolution passes, a human's right to eat meat may be endangered. Do we really want PETA running the world here? I vote Nay and encourage others to do the same.

I just wanted to point out that if this resolution passes, a human's right to eat meat may be endangered. Do we really want PETA running the world here? I vote Nay and encourage others to do the same.

With all due respect, Your Excellency, have you been paying attention to the debate prior to your statement? I do believe that this issue has been dealt with several times over. Also, I do not understand what the "People for the Eating of Tasty Animals" has to do with world domination, but I am willing to hear you out.

Ambassador Darvek Tyvok-kan
Great Chiefdom of Krioval

I just wanted to point out that if this resolution passes, a human's right to eat meat may be endangered. Do we really want PETA running the world here? I vote Nay and encourage others to do the same.


Senator Sulla's secretary Velma looks up at the delegate, sadly shakes her head and rolls her eyes
"<Sigh!> Did you even read this debate, or the proposed resolution? If you had, then you would have found that the point was already addressed. In fact many esteemed collegues here had spoken on that very subject. Its pity that you haven't bothered to check it out before posting. Next time, junior, read the debate."

Shemp stood for recognition one more time, looking much more harried and haggard since the start of the debate. Not too long ago he had been sprayed with water and fish guts, and then, when he left to clean himself up, one of the anti-sapients morons taped a sign to his back, reading "KICK ME." Only Shemp didn't realize it, and when he stood up to speak, yet another Delegate in Denial came up behind him and did exactly as the placard instructed. There was a fair amount of mocking laughter from the Peanut Gallery as the ambassador whirled around to find a petulant "diplomat" smiling and waving obnoxiously as he stalked off. Shemp tried for a few moments to rip sign off his back, only he couldn't quite reach it, making it look like he was standing askew. A tin can hit his head, and Shemp looked up, still standing at an angle, to find Statler and Waldorf up in the balcony:

"What's the matter, Shemp? Didn't have your V8 this morning? DOHOHOHOHOHOHO!!!!"

That's what did it.

Crickey, beyond the obvious stupidity, the included line:

Obligates member states to take all prudent and necessary measures to protect all sentient creatures under their jurisdiction from deliberate, unprovoked harm, violence, killings, or extermination

would basically force us all into being vegitarians [sic]...
I just wanted to point out that if this resolution passes, a human's right to eat meat may be endangered. Do we really want PETA running the world here? I vote Nay and encourage others to do the same.Look, punks, it's been said maybe eighty fucking times already. THIS IS NOT ABOUT ANIMAL RIGHTS!! Do you even know what "sentience" fucking means? Because it's defined for you right there in the God-damned proposal! You don't have to ban meat-eating if it isn't prudent and necessary to do so!!

And speaking of not knowing what simple words mean...

*snip*
What the hell is your problem, Lord Chancellor??!! Believe it or not, resolutions don't need a fucking glossary!! Why do we even have the "reasonable nations" rule when the members of this organization are so obviously bereft of reason it's not even fucking funny anymore!! AAAAUUUUUGGGGGGHHHHHH!!!!!!

At this point, Shemp began to laugh insanely, and sprinted up the aisle toward the entrance hall and disappeared, his disturbing cackles still echoing in the halls.

Well I just started today, but if the WA accepts my people in time, I shall vote yes, for we should treat all forms of life with respect.

Soviet,
Ziggard

The ambassador will not be present for the remainder of this discussion. Some of you may have seen him being dragged from these halls in a straightjacket by men in white coats, and scandalous rumors have been swirling around the building ever since...

Don't say he had a nervous breakdown, don't say he had a nervous breakdown, don't say he had a nervous breakdown...

I'm afraid the rumors are true. Ambassador Shemp is a psychotic sex addict. If any of you have slept with him since his arrival here a few months ago, you should probably have yourselves checked out at the VD clinic across the street.

The woman speaking adjusts her glasses and briefly scans the room, lighting upon the heavily bosomed figure sitting behind the table marked "Thessadoria."

And you, young lady, you should have yourself checked out regardless. Hmm.

At any rate, as Ambassador Shemp's secretary, I am authorized to speak on his behalf until the roll is called, which, mercifully enough, will only be about another hour or so. So take your best shot.

http://www.hullamvadasz.hu/ftpterulet/kep/hirek/200202/anne_robinson_1.jpg
Dora Lee
Secretary to the Ambassador

Well, it appears we have failed by 951 votes, or 12 percentage points. But that's much better than the 24-point defeat dealt the last sapient-rights proposal, so at least we're moving in the right direction! Heh.

Well, the bill is done, so let the gloating commence!

Dora Lee
Secretary to the Ambassador

A black 1977 Camaro Type LT crashes through the entrance of the General Assembly, narrowly missing Shemp and several other ambassadors as it screams down the main aisle towards the podium.

Nearing the podium, it hits the mixture of water, ink and hydraulic fluid, sending it into a spin. The Camaro slings torrents of the inky mixture spraying in all directions then crashes into the podium, knocking it over.

The driver's side door opens and out steps Mickey Special, his long flowing mullet waving in the breeze.

http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b106/Yelda/mickey.jpg

The passenger side door opens and out steps Mister Jones, Felix Dzerzhinsky's dog and former Vice-Delegate of Antarctic Oasis.

http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b106/Yelda/review_ghostbusters_1d.jpg

With the strains of Black Sabbath's 'Children of the Grave' blasting from the car's sound system, Mssrs Jones and Special go to work.

Mr. Special grabs a microphone from the destroyed podium.

Mr. Special: "Whoop! Hell yeah!!! Sic 'em Jones!"

Mister Jones: "MOTHERFUCKERS!!....GRARGLE...*roar*....SHITFUCKING ASS SALAD!!!....HRARGARKFARG........"

Mister Jones springs into action. He seizes a nearby Amur Panthera Tigrisian diplomat and drags him to the window, shakes him like a ragdoll, then tosses him out. He then spots a group of Wenceans. He charges into their midst and latches onto the largest one, handing him the same fate as the unfortunate Tigrisian. Next he notices a diplomat from Texan Territories....

...and so on.

Meanwhile, in the ruins of the former podium, Mr. Special is standing atop a pile of rubble singing along (badly) with Black Sabbath. He looks up just in time to see the DEFENESTRATINATOR V.2 enter the building, belching smoke, steam and noxious fumes.

Mr. Special: "Oh shit yeah! Let's do this thing!"

The wailing and screaming of the ambassadors as they are loaded into the machine and shot out the windows reminds him of a backstage party he attended after a Judas Priest concert. We won't go into that though...

We are disgusted that the revered ambassador for SchutteGod's excellent resolution has ben voted against by this organisation. The greater part of the opposition to it was ill informed and deeply foolish. In some cases member nations did not even seem to read the resolution before deciding to bore us all with their crapulent foolishness and imbecilic opinions. Today is a black day for freedom and decency, this organisation needs more concientious and intelligent ambassadors like Shemp #3 and fewer of the sort that believed this resolution banned the eating of meat.

yours e.t.c. ,

Arjel Khazaran stands up, his voice shaking with rage.

This is a sad and pathetic day for this assembly. For the most ridiculous and inane of reasons, many of you chose to deny worthy beings their rights. And yet, if asked, no doubt you would call yourselves civilized. You should be ashamed. May you suffer unspeakable torment in the seven hells.

Khazaran stalks out. The rest of the Altan Steppes delegation follows him, with Jaris Krytellin shaking his head and muttering under his breath.

I have just received the following telegram from the former UN Delegate from The Nifty Fraternity of Retired WerePenguins. I would like to enter this into the official record.

Dear Ms. Lee:

On behalf of The Nifty Fraternity of Retired WerePenguins, currently located in the Glorious region of Penguin, we would like to express our condolences to the failure of the passage of the resolution "Sentients Rights Act" was defeated 4,671 votes to 3,720. The resolution was strongly endorsed by The Subterranean Republic of Giant Albino Penguins, although they are not currently members of the World Assembly. And I am sure that The Prinnydom of Super Pixeled Penguins would have voted for it had he been delegate for the region, but alas he was only delegate for one day.

You will know that even though this resolution failed to pass and we are not currently under WA law anyway, that The Nifty Fraternity of Retired WerePenguins will support the inalienable rights of all sentient beings, from WerePenguins to Cyborg Calamari. We lift our lamp beside the Golden Arches of Retired WerePenguins.

Last but not least, having seen your photo I would like to state that you are one hot secretary to the ambassador. Why if it wasn’t the fact that I’m a married WerePenguin I would probably invite you to my office to see my collection of rugby trophies. That is if I were a representative to the WA and if I had an office in the first place. I thank the Maharajah of Tzor for entering this into the official record and I thank you for not shouting him down as you often did me.

Sincerely, (how can there be any “sin” in “sincere?”)
Flash Blonde
Representative Emeritus for The Nifty Fraternity of Retired WerePenguins

Thank you for you kind attention in this matter. I think you can see why we voted No to this resolution.

*Sigh* Another casualty in the sapients rights debate...

http://test256.free.fr/UN%20Cards/ReadNothing.png

From the erm-WA Cards? collection.

It seems that, ill-informed and illiterate, as many indignant supporters allege, or thoughtfully concerned, as the opposition protests, the majority of members that voted against this resolution did so because the resolution simply had obvious room for improvement and not because they disagreed with its basic principles. Regardless of how stupid certain parties think certain other parties are for not reading into the document what they do, would it really be so hard to modify it to address the more common concerns voiced here and resubmit it for a new vote? Surely the importance of passing legislation to protect the rights of all sapient and sentient beings surpasses the potential indignity of acknowledging that other members may have legitimate concerns about the integrity of the resolution as previously written. Let not pride inhibit our ability to compromise and ensure the institution of the vital principles embodied in the Sentient Rights Act.

Below, I reiterate my own concerns, in the hope that they will be duly considered in what I hope will be a swift reincarnation of the Sentient Rights Act.

The definition of sentience is weak, leading to a wide potential interpretation of its scope. People on both sides are convinced of different interpretations. That in itself speaks to the need for clarification.

The requirement that all sapients have rights "on a par" with humans may be read to mean that all sapient species should be subject to the same rights and responsibilities as are humans. Not all species, even sapient species, have the same needs or display the same behavioral patterns as humans. A "one law, all species" policy may in some cases irreparably damage a sapient species' legitimate cultural characteristics or quality of life.

Setting the standard of sapient rights as those guaranteed under international law means that rights granted to humans in excess of the extremely limited rights required by the World Assembly need not be matched for other species. If the goal is to achieve legal equity for all sapients within a country, the standard should be the rights granted under the laws of that country, which in any case must be at least those required by the World Assembly.

I yield the floor.

On behalf of the Empire of Avarahn,

I would like to say that my government is dissapointed to say the least in the failure of the WA to pass this resolution. I was indeed hoping that perhaps we could spare a thought for the other sentient sapiens out there who are currently being discriminated and abused.

I had hoped that the WA would have been able to see sense, but obviously, sense is somewhat lacking from certain parties.

Once again, on behalf of my government we hope that this resolution would be resurrrected as it is an important issue that must be addressed seriously and passsed on order to reaffirm our stand for equality and individual rights for all sentient sapiens.

Thank you.
____________________________

I yield the floor.

This defeat is totally witchcraft. I mean, what happened to the good old days where more WA members than now were looking into a future of fairness and equality?

don't you see that this resolution was turned down because the amount of loop-holes? it was a bad resolution and it got what it deserved, the trashcan

don't you see that this resolution was turned down because the amount of loop-holes?

No, I don't. I don't recall anyone demonstrating an actual loophole. I remember several people claiming that there were loopholes, one or two of whom actually said what they thought the loopholes were, all of which were demonstrably incorrect.

I do remember a lot of people posting here to say "I know non-humans don't exist because I'm a crap roleplayer who doesn't even have enough imagination to give his ambassador a name." Excuse the cynicism, but I see nothing but idiocy (out of character) and racism (in character) in this defeat.

*Mog and his band of moogles approach the podium*

Kupo kupo kupo-po-po. Ku kupu kupopo kupo. Kupo kupo kupo, kupo-po.

*One of the moogles hands Mod a small metal tube. Mog gives it a quick shake and the tube extends into a spear, which Mog points at all the ambassadors who voted against the resolution.*

Kupo! Kupo kupo ku kupo-po kupo!

http://i176.photobucket.com/albums/w166/bak42/moogle.jpg
Mog
Moogle Chieftain

You tell them Mog!

Tell them what?

How should I know? I don't speak moogle.

http://i176.photobucket.com/albums/w166/bak42/statler_waldorf.jpg
Statler & Waldorf
WA Representatives (pro tem)

Charlotte Ryberg: Kupo Kupo kupo ku ku-po kupo...!

Anonymous male bystander: What is a kupo?

Charlotte Ryberg: I'm trying to say in Moogle that the defeat is witchcraft as peaceful-loving creatures deserve the same rights as humans. You can't assume that anything that isn't human is always violent.

It's great. When your project of resolution didn't pass, the ones who voted against are "incivilized", "stupids", "ignorants", "didn't read", and a long list of very 'civilized', 'tolerant' and 'respectful' qualifications.

My very less estimated ambassadors and dignataries from the 'sentient' field: the first and main sentient group on this Planet (both in RL and RP) are we, the humans. Even if we don't agree with you.

We'll make a list of the ones who insult so easily. Their future proposals will be analyzed 'cum grano salis'. Just to be sure.

Their future proposals will be analyzed 'cum grano salis'. Just to be sure.

There is no need for such profanity on the floor of the World Assembly, the ambassadors from the Palentine excepted, of course.

Ambassador Darvek Tyvok-kan
Great Chiefdom of Krioval

"So it gives the president great pride to appoint you as ambassador extraordinary with full plenipotentiary powers..."

"Yeah, that's great, chief," Susa said dully into his phone as he walked the halls. "Let me know the next time you want to go drinking and whoring." <click>

"Who was that?" Jimmy asked as the twain approached the main chamber.

"The hell if I know," Susa replied with a distinct lack of interest. "Another suit offering me a government job."

"They went with you, didn't they?" Jimmy asked bitterly.

"You shouldn't take it so personally," Susa consoled him. "It's not your fault I'm so fucking awesome!" They reached the majestic double doors to the GA. "Time for another boring floor debate."

They opened the doors to find Jones going apeshit on the frightened delegates, a Camaro idling on the dais, and Mickey Special dancing upon a demolished podium to the strains of Black Sabbath.

"Ah, hells yeah! This is my kind of scene!" Susa declared as he immediately leapt into the fray, grabbing the Sildavialand rep by the shoulders and kneeing him hard in the groin. He proceeded to the United Libertonian ambassador and repeated the act, only this time adding a punch to the gut. He roared as flew across the aisle to the Xanthalian gentleman, lifting him over his head with practically superhuman strength and spinning him around madly before hurling him out the window toward the waiting waters of the Vastivan Memorial Reflecting Pool. Susa whirled around to find himself face to face with the smoking jaws of Mister Jones.

Desperately, Susa looked around the chamber to find another target for the demonic canine's wrath. "Hey, Jonesie!" he said excitedly. "Go get that Tzorslander prick! Yeah, that's right! Go rip his guts out! There's a good doggie!"

It's great. When your project of resolution didn't pass, the ones who voted against are "incivilized", "stupids", "ignorants", "didn't read", and a long list of very 'civilized', 'tolerant' and 'respectful' qualifications.

My very less estimated ambassadors and dignataries from the 'sentient' field: the first and main sentient group on this Planet (both in RL and RP) are we, the humans. Even if we don't agree with you.

We'll make a list of the ones who insult so easily. Their future proposals will be analyzed 'cum grano salis'. Just to be sure.


If the respected ambassador for Saldavialand is refering to our comments then they should know that the resolution on sentient rights was not our "project" at all, it was the project of SchutteGod, and it was an excellent one at that.
Make your list if it amuses you to do so, and by all means use it to add another layer of prejudice to your "analysis" as you laughably term it.

Yours e.t.c. ,

It seems that, ill-informed and illiterate, as many indignant supporters allege, or thoughtfully concerned, as the opposition protests, the majority of members that voted against this resolution did so because the resolution simply had obvious room for improvement and not because they disagreed with its basic principles.OOC: I'll save you the embarrassment of admitting you haven't read the debate; the level of obtuseness apparent among the opposition would be shocking to any of those not familiar with the usual workings of this body. You might also have discovered that several of your concerns were already addressed, multiple times. Finally, "on a par with" does not mean "the same as." Any idiot knows that.

I yield the floor.I should hope so; you're not even standing on it anymore :p

Welcome to Godmode Central, aka "the World Assembly."

It's great. When your project of resolution didn't pass, the ones who voted against are "incivilized", "stupids", "ignorants", "didn't read", and a long list of very 'civilized', 'tolerant' and 'respectful' qualifications.

Yes. The ambassadors who voted against this are all of those things. And they smell, too. Your point?

My very less estimated ambassadors and dignataries from the 'sentient' field: the first and main sentient group on this Planet (both in RL and RP) are we, the humans. Even if we don't agree with you.

It's that kind of ignorance that sent this down to defeat. One could argue that the advocates of a pro-humanist agenda didn't exactly display much in the way of sentience.

We'll make a list of the ones who insult so easily. Their future proposals will be analyzed 'cum grano salis'. Just to be sure.

We've got something your ambassador can analyze. It's right outside that window there, if you would be so kind as to go and look.

*shoves Sildavialand ambassador out the window*

-Arjel Khazaran, etc.

We've got something your ambassador can analyze. It's right outside that window there, if you would be so kind as to go and look.

*shoves Sildavialand ambassador out the window*

-Arjel Khazaran, etc.

Oh I really like this kind of humour, but I think it is against my laws to kick someone sapient or sentient out of the window. But my love you have :p

Oh I really like this kind of humour, but I think it is against my laws to kick someone sapient or sentient out of the window. But my love you have :p

We're glad to have your love (cough) and also glad that your laws don't apply here. The last thing we need is one of our diplomats to get arrested.

-Jaris Krytellin etc.

*snip*

I was about to prepare a rebuttal, but then it struck me that since the vast majority of vocal supporters of the Sentient Rights Act are far more interested in decrying the opposition than modifying the resolution to gain their support (which, by the way, will be needed if the law is to pass), trying to argue my case would be unlikely to contribute to the success of a future attempt. Instead, may I simply suggest that, since you are so convinced that only idiots would vote against it, you go about spelling out assurances for the less... gifted among us. Now if you'll excuse me, I need to get some dry clothes.

Ambassador, I assure you, this issue is being sorted out in private conference rooms (OOC: offsites), in an effort spearheaded by another respected member of this body, and as soon as a new draft is ready, I would encourage you to return to this assembly hall to give your input -- before it is submitted, that is.

P.S. See Dicey Reilly of Ardchoille about magicking your clothes dry. She's quite good at the simpler spells.

P.S. See Dicey Reilly of Ardchoille about magicking your clothes dry. She's quite good at the simpler spells.

Yeah, she hardly ever sets them on fire while you're wearing them anymore.

http://i176.photobucket.com/albums/w166/bak42/statler_waldorf.jpg
Statler & Waldorf
WA Representatives (pro tem)