NationStates Jolt Archive

*One of Zarquon's aides turns to him what the delegate from OMGTKK was doing with the Iceflorian delegate. Zarquon turns to the young man and says*

"They are having what is known as an intense deliberation session. And from the looks of it I had best rethink my stance on the matter."

*Rising from his chair and approaching the podeum. Zarquon removes his hood and addresses the body amidst the screams of Icefloris.*

It is through much deliberation *scream* that I have decided that my Froods shall rather enjoy hearing of the repeal of Max Barry day *scream*. I change my vote to FOR *long scream*. I'm sure my people will accept the decision *scream* or else *window shattering howl*. I thank you.

*Zarquon pulls the hood back over his head and returns to his seat, trying not to witness the spectacle.*

Seriously, who the hell put in for a repeal for this thing? Yes, the original idea was stupid, though had a nice sentiment behind it, but what f***en hell purpose does this repeal serve? Show that you have no life but that of spending it on the net?

If you decide to come to your senses (and you are my general area), I shall see you at the beach in raglan (if you know where that is) if you finally realise that real life is sooooooo much better than this.

Ciao mi f***en retards

Mitch
kisses

WHY BOTHER repealing Max Barry Day (which is a perfectly fine holiday - not even compulsory...!!)

IC/OOC (is that legal? or possible?):
Wow, another idiot that doesn't know how to read the UN's rules!

However, it's a double-edged sword, because your nation will also be affected by any resolutions that pass. (You can't just obey the resolutions you like and ignore the rest, like real nations do.)

All UN member nations must obey EVERY resolution. NO EXCEPTIONS. Which means that, contrary to whatever you might think, Max Barry Day IS a compulsory.

OOC: Some people think the UN should keep this resolution and that we RPers should stop whining about it. But hey, guess what: YOU GUYS HAVE TO FOLLOW THE RULES, TOO. This resolution violated numerous rules. It goes.
And if everyone that voted For this dumb holiday really cared, then there wouldn't be more For votes for the repeal, would there? Proves that the UN is over-run with morons that have no idea what is going on. :headbang:

IC: The nation of Subistratica is very displeased with having to add an entire month just for some stupid holiday. Because the resolution never said when EXACTLY this holiday was to be celebrated (it only said March 18... our calendar originally didn't have a March or 18), so LILITH had this extra month and day placed just after M7.
Let us hope that this repeal passes.

Good day.

Eros Tatriel
UN Rep. for Subistratica

Seriously, who the hell put in for a repeal for this thing? Yes, the original idea was stupid, though had a nice sentiment behind it, but what f***en hell purpose does this repeal serve? Show that you have no life but that of spending it on the net?

If you decide to come to your senses (and you are my general area), I shall see you at the beach in raglan (if you know where that is) if you finally realise that real life is sooooooo much better than this.Indeed, and I'm told that Internet trolls are often very pleasant people in real life. I sincerely hope such is the case here ... else those pricey trans-Pacific airline tickets will have been a total waste.

*meanders in with a large spoon of peanut butter*

hmm... Seems as if Sunday isn't coming fast enough... Tense crowd...

Me'thinks if more governments took Aligator's stand on Politics we'd have fewer violent happenings... or at least less nut kicking... I say we permit only women in politics... Besides, in Aligator all the men are in the military until they're too old to do much but soil themselves
*shrug*

oh by the by... I haven't introduced myself

*shifts peanut butter spoon to left hand, and offers a rather uncomfortable salute of sorts*

Amar a'Mae
President and High Poomba of Aligator...

unusual I'm sure to have the head of state as the UN Ambassador... I find myself bored of my office on more than one occasion. *shrug*
Peanut Butter anyone? *offers spoon to room*

Peanut Butter anyone? *offers spoon to room*

Pierre-Jean Delormebleu (http://ns.goobergunch.net/wiki/index.php/Pierre-Jean_Delormebleu) perks up, and smiles.

"Please. Have a marzipan baby (http://img146.imageshack.us/img146/2781/marzipanbabieszm5.png) in exchange."

<snip> ... Ciao mi f***en retards

Kinaholik, you're allowed to denigrate the resolution at vote. Your ambassador is allowed to disagree with other ambassadors. In character (IC), that's fine.

You, the actual poster, are not allowed to abuse other posters. That's flaming, and it's not allowed on this site. Cut it out, now.

"Max Barry is deified and venerated the world over, and whilst Rotovia is a staunchly secularised nation, we recognize and respect that Max Barry Day has stood to provide at least temporary peace in a world that so often is torn by war"

Lady Dr Ivona Flemmings
Ambassador extraordinaire to the UnitedNations
Chairman: Commonwealth Heads of Government
Chairman: Regional Council of Reformed Oceania

Well, and eunuchs, I suppose.

My question to my fellow delegates and world leaders is this: What is so bad about Max Barry Day. Sure, it is a minor waste of voting time, but so is this repeal. I do not wish to pick a fight, but I do not see the point in repealing a resolution that has minimal effect on the UN member nations. That is all.

To say that our entire world was created by a single being called "max barry" goes against the national religion of Bellheim. Bellheim, as a nation of devout Adamsists, believes that the Universe came into existance by being sneezed out of the nose of the Great Green Arkleseizure. Surely a day celebrating another as being the creator of our Universe goes against our freedom to express our own religion? All democratic nations should, logically, vote for repeal.

Fear the coming of the Great White Handkerchief, oh unbelievers!

Max Barry Day is a good idea, as thanking the person who brought Nationstates
Into the world is only being polite so proposing to repeal Max Barry day is like a big :upyours: right in his face; also kicking someone in the nuts is only to be done if 1. the person your kicking in the nuts is about to do something unethical i.e Proposing to repeal Max Barry Day, Start W.W.3 ect. and you have no other way of stopping them 2. The person has done something unethical i.e Proposing to repeal Max Barry Day, Start W.W.3 ect. and 3. If there male, if there female or is male but doesn't have nuts for some reason then some other action will have to be done to said person who is about/has done something unethical i.e Proposing to repeal Max Barry Day, Start W.W.3 ect. an example of what you could do is break their nose by hitting them with a cricket bat while this isn't very polite if they are about to do/have done something unethical i.e Proposing to repeal Max Barry Day, Start W.W.3 ect. it's alright.

Max Barry Day is a good idea, as thanking the person who brought Nationstates
Into the world is only being polite so proposing to repeal Max Barry day is like a big :upyours: right in his face; also kicking someone in the nuts is only to be done if 1. the person your kicking in the nuts is about to do something unethical i.e Proposing to repeal Max Barry Day, Start W.W.3 ect. and you have no other way of stopping them 2. The person has done something unethical i.e Proposing to repeal Max Barry Day, Start W.W.3 ect. and 3. If there male, if there female or is male but doesn't have nuts for some reason then some other action will have to be done to said person who is about/has done something unethical i.e Proposing to repeal Max Barry Day, Start W.W.3 ect. an example of what you could do is break their nose by hitting them with a cricket bat while this isn't very polite if they are about to do/have done something unethical i.e Proposing to repeal Max Barry Day, Start W.W.3 ect. it's alright.

With all due respect, The Thessadorian Ambassador also give me great joy when she graces this festering snakepit...errr.....august halls with her....ummmmm....ample endowments, yet it would be a bad idea to name a holiday in her honor.(although I'm getting sorely tempted with all the yammerheads showing up in the debate). as Stated befor the Max Barry Day resolution is patently illegal, and can only be rectified by removing it from the books. On your other point about it not being nice, polite or ethical to kick a delegate in the cods for dissagreeing with the resolution, I have to say this is pretty tame. In the past delegates have been, among other things, cursed at, defenestrated(look up the word if you don't know it), piledriven through a desk, hit in the face with a pie, eaten by a whale, threated by a veceliraptor, and one of my very staff has even hit a UN gnome in the head with a coconut, hit a lucador in the head with a coconut, and hit a gnome in the cranuim with a steel chair to show their dissaproval. Debates here can get very lively, so I'd suggest that you sit back and enjoy the fracas.
Excelsior,
The good but slightly unwholesome Sen. Sulla

<snip>... In the past delegates have been, among other things, cursed at, defenestrated(look up the word if you don't know it), piledriven through a desk, hit in the face with a pie, eaten by a whale, threated by a veceliraptor, and one of my very staff has even hit a UN gnome in the head with a coconut, hit a lucador in the head with a coconut, and hit a gnome in the cranuim with a steel chair to show their dissaproval. Debates here can get very lively, so I'd suggest that you sit back and enjoy the fracas.
Excelsior,
The good but slightly unwholesome Sen. Sulla


Nothing quite like a good civilized debate. *eyes the Altari Nut-Cracker* Good to see at least one useful invention has come out of this.

My question to my fellow delegates and world leaders is this: What is so bad about Max Barry Day. Sure, it is a minor waste of voting time, but so is this repeal. I do not wish to pick a fight, but I do not see the point in repealing a resolution that has minimal effect on the UN member nations. That is all.

We don't think there is anything bad about Max Barry Day. But the resolution which established it clearly and unarguably violates the Rules for UN Proposals. Allowing it to remain on the books sends a message that it's just fine to disregard the rules as long as you get away with it.

Ausserland has voted FOR the repeal.

Travilia E. Thwerdock
Ambassador to the United Nations

Wolfgang watched as the line of people who weren't listening and wished to speak formed a line up to the podium to ask why there was a repeal. "Perhaps if we spoke in bold? Or bold italic? And in a large font size? Or do you think people would still post... er... speak... without reading the past arguments, as though this was their own private thread... er... assembly hall. Don't know why I said that."

I would like to point out for all concerned that such a resolution does not mean that the UN's priorities are whacko. Many nations celebrate holidays to commemorate founders for famous members. And on another note, such a rapid repeal of a recently passed resolution would be embarrassing to the UN.

I also believe the fact that the repeal author's words were rather insulting to anyone who voted for it (and, correct me if I am wrong, a direct attack on the author of the original proposal).

Has the repeal author's words made those who voted for it feel guilty or stupid as the repeal vote appears to be passing on about the same figures as the original proposal passed.

Something rather sudden has happened. But let me finish by saying that no nation that originally voted in favor of passing Max Barry Day should be ashamed of their vote or be coerced into feeling guilty over it by the ranting and insulting of the repeal author.

So I encourage supporters and opponents alike to vote against a repeal that is hundreds of times more illogical and wasteful than the original resolution was, is, or ever will be.

Thank you all and have a great day (or night, depending on your location worldwide).
Alemarenvelt,

Repeal "Max Barry Day"
A proposal to repeal a previously passed resolution

Category: Repeal
Resolution: #223 (http://www.nationstates.net/page=UN_past_resolutions/start=222)
Proposed by: Omigodtheykilledkenny (http://www.nationstates.net/omigodtheykilledkenny)

Description: UN Resolution #223: Max Barry Day (http://www.nationstates.net/page=UN_past_resolutions/start=222) (Category: Education and Creativity; Area of Effect: Educational) shall be struck out and rendered null and void.

Argument: These here fine United Nations,

Commending Resolution #223's laudable purpose, to recognize truly great men and their achievements;

Duly congratulating this resolution's intended honoree on his many titles from coed beauty pageants throughout the NS world;

Expressing its concern, however, that this resolution breaches the reasonable limits to which this body has traditionally held itself;

Chagrined that amidst the many serious problems the world faces today, including war, terrorism, poverty, oppression, corruption, pestilence, disease, famine, malnourishment, starvation, taxes, illiteracy, substandard education, substandard sex education, imperial measurements, necrophilia, space junk, nations not labeling chemicals correctly, shortages of computers for schoolchildren, invisible tree people, shortages of computers for invisible tree schoolchildren, rampant ecclesiastical self-defenestration, and reluctance to eradicate the Arctocephalinae, the United Nations would actually pass a resolution declaring an international holiday for some dude who started a Website suggests that this institution's priorities are somewhat out of whack;

Kicking Ausserland in the nuts,

Hereby repeals Resolution #223: Max Barry Day.Comments welcome. :p

The Quirkiest Fanatical Asylum of Sri Nagar respectfully asks why is it that our United Nations voted to approve UN Resolution #223 and designate Max Barry Day to begin with if all we're going to do (as it appears from the ongoing voting) is repeal said resolution.

From Sri Nagar's position, it sounds like an exercise in self-defeatism.

Your mileage may vary ... but I simply think the whole thing is ludicrous.

:headbang:

From Sri Nagar's position, it sounds like an exercise in self-defeatism.

Your post is #268 in this thread. Had you read any of the other posts (on the order of half of them), you'd have had your answer.

This is an outrage, if there are more important issues to argue, then argue them. Stop wasting time repealing a national holiday that honors Max Barry, oh, by the way, without him, you wouldn't be arguing right now on this wonderous site of nationstates.net.

This is an outrage, if there are more important issues to argue, then argue them. Stop wasting time repealing a national holiday that honors Max Barry, oh, by the way, without him, you wouldn't be arguing right now on this wonderous site of nationstates.net.

OOC: For the sake of every intelligent person's sanity, PLEASE read the rest of the thread, and the points made there, before you make yourself look foolish and drive us insane.

Long time listener first time caller.

I thought it was a good idea to have such a day. I mean i vote for it the first time and i will continue to support it till the end. Without this person we would not be here to debate on the topic. He deserves a nobel prize... wait do we have the nobel prize if not someone with influence should make a proposal. For all you that vote for this repel i say will say i am wearing a cup made of lead with metal spikes so do your worst. My mace like crouch shall crush your feet.

I thought it was a good idea to have such a day. I mean i vote for it the first time and i will continue to support it till the end. Without this person we would not be here to debate on the topic.

OOC: How about you try reading earlier posts in this thread if you don't understand what's going on?

Here's a very brief summary:

The Max Barry Day resolution is illegal. It got through because the moderators didn't notice it, and therefore failed to delete it. According to the rules (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=420465), it should have been zapped (the mods have confirmed this). Since it can no longer be deleted, repealing it is the only way of getting rid of it.

It's illegal because of metagaming. Resolutions are passed from an in-character, in-world perspective. Within the NS world, Max Barry either does not exist, or is a writer and international beauty pageant winner; he's not universally acknowledged as the Creator of all things. That's the distinction between In Character and Out of Character, which you need to grasp if you're going to be sticking around in the UN.

If that's still not clear, ask away, and we can clarify.

Argh! Who let this proposal through? True, it's trying to repeal another (illegal) proprosal, which is good, but this is honestly not the way to go about it. Saying that "there are more important things to worry about" is simply not a valid argument.

The Max Barry Day resolution is illegal. It got through because the moderators didn't notice it, and therefore failed to delete it. According to the rules (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=420465), it should have been zapped (the mods have confirmed this). Since it can no longer be deleted, repealing it is the only way of getting rid of it.

It's illegal because of metagaming. Resolutions are passed from an in-character, in-world perspective. Within the NS world, Max Barry either does not exist, or is a writer and international beauty pageant winner; he's not universally acknowledged as the Creator of all things. That's the distinction between In Character and Out of Character, which you need to grasp if you're going to be sticking around in the UN.

If that's still not clear, ask away, and we can clarify. Okay, so here's a question. Forgive me if it's been answered before and elsewhere.

Why do we have these rules? I see they're codified in a post by 'The Most Glorious Hack' from the 'NationStates Moderator Team', but are they published on the nationstates.net website at all? If not, why should we feel bound by them?

I saw the argument before that we non-RP folk still have to be bound by the rules, and I accept that, but I should like very much to know where the rules come from. It sounds very much like the rules developed over time through RP on these forums, which forums have nothing or very little to do with the game I signed up to on nationstates.net.

The follow on from that is... how do we go about changing the rules? Obviously if they've been handed down from the Almighty Max Barry then there's nothing we can do, but if it's a sort of customary international law, not actually codified by the UN itself, why can't we non-RP folk resist and seek to change the rules by developing a consistent state practice rejecting these silly bloody rules? Why can't we agitate for a loosening of this ridiculous metagaming proscription? Why can't the Max Barry Day resolution be seen as state action on our part with the aim of changing the rules?

There may be straightforward answers to all this, but again, I suspect they lie within the on-forum world, and not within the off-forum, nationstates.net world to which I signed myself up. So maybe you can clarify it for me. Cheers.

since the original resolution for initiating max barry day is illegal lets just vote it out and get it over and done with, there are still other stuff such as the military buildups in those dictatorship governments that needs dealing with so we can inva... i mean peacefully negotiate trade deals.

after all peaceniks with fluro bandanna and water pistols cant really do much to initiate wars can they. And where did that walking, living anencephalic person who posted the original resolution go anyhow plus it just shows how beurocracy fails since we have so many people just signing off crap without reading them, read the argument for nor against. note how this resolution is getting a high "for" vote again, just shows how little majority of the reps care as long as they get to press one of the two of the voting buttons.

Okay, so here's a question. Forgive me if it's been answered before and elsewhere.

Why do we have these rules? I see they're codified in a post by 'The Most Glorious Hack' from the 'NationStates Moderator Team', but are they published on the nationstates.net website at all? If not, why should we feel bound by them?

I saw the argument before that we non-RP folk still have to be bound by the rules, and I accept that, but I should like very much to know where the rules come from. It sounds very much like the rules developed over time through RP on these forums, which forums have nothing or very little to do with the game I signed up to on nationstates.net.

The follow on from that is... how do we go about changing the rules? Obviously if they've been handed down from the Almighty Max Barry then there's nothing we can do, but if it's a sort of customary international law, not actually codified by the UN itself, why can't we non-RP folk resist and seek to change the rules by developing a consistent state practice rejecting these silly bloody rules? Why can't we agitate for a loosening of this ridiculous metagaming proscription? Why can't the Max Barry Day resolution be seen as state action on our part with the aim of changing the rules?

There may be straightforward answers to all this, but again, I suspect they lie within the on-forum world, and not within the off-forum, nationstates.net world to which I signed myself up. So maybe you can clarify it for me. Cheers.

Well, on the page where you submit UN proposals it plainly states:

"For more detail on what constitutes an inappropriate proposal, see here (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=420465)."

Now that's pretty clearly "in-game", "non-RP" and "off-forum" and it links to Hack's "Rules For UN Proposals [Now Binding]" thread. I imagine the reason that the detailed ruleset is on the forum rather than on the submissions page is due to space limitations.

Carcim, the "let's not waste time on this when there are more important things to do" argument is frequently used by nations opposing a particular resolution. Any resolution.

It's used so frequently, in fact, that OMGTKK just might have been parodying it when he included it in the text of the repeal.

He's trying to repeal it because that's the only way to get rid of it easily now. I'm no expert, but I think it's to do with the way successful resolutions get coded into the game. For the admins to take out a successful resolution isn't just a matter of pushing a button. A repeal is the nearest to a "button" that we've got.

IC: Dicey Reilly rises and paces, with due and pompous ceremony, over to the Ariddian delegation.
"It is my great honour today to award to Ambassador-Emeritus Krystellin my nation's Medal for Eloquently Facing Unremitting and Diversified Denseness, popularly known as the E.Fudd, or Elmer.

Though this award is the first to be conferred in this campaign -- er, debate -- in honour of the seamless teamwork of the entire Ariddian delegation, I assure the many equally deserving delegates that the Ardchoillean Mint and the Ribbon-Makers' Guild are working double shifts to produce more. There will be medals for all who number themselves among ...

We few, we happy few, we band of brothers;
For he to-day that speaks his piece with me
Shall be my brother; be he ne'er so vile
This day shall gentle his condition:
And delegates in nations now a-bed
Shall think themselves accursed they were not here,
And hold their manhoods cheap whiles any speaks
That argued thus: Repeal Max Barry Day!"

Why do we have these rules? I see they're codified in a post by 'The Most Glorious Hack' from the 'NationStates Moderator Team', but are they published on the nationstates.net website at all? If not, why should we feel bound by them?They're not, say you?

Originally Posted by NationStates FAQ http://assets.jolt.co.uk/forums/nation_states/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://www.nationstates.net/95274/page=faq#UN)
>So, besides war, I can submit any resolution I want?

No. There are actually a few rules (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=420465) regarding what is considered an acceptable proposal. The UN takes itself very seriously (as in real life) and doesn't like nations submitting inappropriate proposals.

There are two common mistakes inexperienced proposal contributors make: The first is not to have read the full rules before submitting a proposal.
The second common mistake is to put forth a proposal which is not entirely within the NationStates world. UN proposals cannot address the rules (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=420465) or mechanics of the game, nor can they ask for new features. Proposals should also not address events, things, or people in the "Real World".Finally, all proposals are bound by the same rules of etiquette as the rest of the site.

Okay, so here's a question. Forgive me if it's been answered before and elsewhere.

Why do we have these rules? I see they're codified in a post by 'The Most Glorious Hack' from the 'NationStates Moderator Team', but are they published on the nationstates.net website at all? If not, why should we feel bound by them?

I saw the argument before that we non-RP folk still have to be bound by the rules, and I accept that, but I should like very much to know where the rules come from. It sounds very much like the rules developed over time through RP on these forums, which forums have nothing or very little to do with the game I signed up to on nationstates.net.

The follow on from that is... how do we go about changing the rules? Obviously if they've been handed down from the Almighty Max Barry then there's nothing we can do, but if it's a sort of customary international law, not actually codified by the UN itself, why can't we non-RP folk resist and seek to change the rules by developing a consistent state practice rejecting these silly bloody rules? Why can't we agitate for a loosening of this ridiculous metagaming proscription? Why can't the Max Barry Day resolution be seen as state action on our part with the aim of changing the rules?

There may be straightforward answers to all this, but again, I suspect they lie within the on-forum world, and not within the off-forum, nationstates.net world to which I signed myself up. So maybe you can clarify it for me. Cheers.

I'd like to also point out these rules (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=8784627&postcount=2) which are posted on the forum and yet deal with behavior on the main site. So don't go telling us that stuff on the forum has nothing to do with the main site.

Amaranthine Asphodel , if it has an effect on the player, rather than just his nation, there are rules for it.

What sort of UN proposals you post can have an effect on the player. If you deliberately, repeatedly or maliciously posted inappropriate proposals, you could eventually be temporarily suspended from the site (banned) or DEATed. So there have to be rules about what proposals are appropriate.

Those rules are in the sticky at the top of the UN forum.

Similarly, there are rules about what sort of posts you can post elsewhere. The basics are in the The One-Stop Rules Shop. Individual forums have stickies that list particular rules that apply to that forum; it would be silly, for instance, to have detailed UN proposal rules posted in the General forum.

Those rules have become more detailed in some cases, simpler in others, because of events that have happened since the forums began running. The UN rules were recodified when the game changed to include repeals. They were changed again when new categories were introduced. General's rules have developed over the life of the forum, ending up the most strictly bound by PG-13 rules. The RP forums have specific rules too. But they're not RPd, they're still rules, and when you sign up for the game, you sign up for the rules.

There is nothing in this repeal that would prevent you, if it succeeds, from still having Max Barry Day as a State-proclaimed holiday in your nation; it just wouldn't be international. You'd have to RP it, though.

Why do we have these rules?To stop all the garbage we used to be flooded with. Enodia first wrote a ruleset because he was the only one dealing with them.

I see they're codified in a post by 'The Most Glorious Hack' from the 'NationStates Moderator Team'Hey, that's me!

The follow on from that is... how do we go about changing the rules?Bring up a good reason why a certain rule should be changed. The ruleset was debated and reviewed, by the players, for months before I set down the ruleset you see now.

Why can't we agitate for a loosening of this ridiculous metagaming proscription?As a "non-roleplayer", you probably don't want the metagaming rules loosened. Especially since they're the ones that largely prevent the UN forcing you to role-play.

They're not, say you? Erm, no, I didn't say they're not.


As a "non-roleplayer", you probably don't want the metagaming rules loosened. Especially since they're the ones that largely prevent the UN forcing you to role-play. How does that follow? I am being forced to role-play as it is. I am member of a NS UN which apparently inhabits some fanciful world where, inter alia, George Bush, Hamas and France don't exist. And yet, somehow, RL issues like water conservation, labour relations and 'family planning' are good to go, not to mention general rubrics like the English language, the Gregorian calendar, and the very United Nations itself.

I can only stand back and ask, why all the restrictions? Were things really so much worse during the Ban the Axis of Evil days? You say it's to stop the UN system being flooded with garbage, but that still doesn't really answer my why. What's wrong with the garbage? Whom does it benefit to keep the garbage out? It benefits the RPers, that's all. It doesn't matter to anyone else what goes on in these 'hallowed halls'. Yet in the process we non-RPers are denied such little pieces of fun as Max Barry Day, and are forced to endure recriminations about "illegality" -- if it's not RP to tell someone his state is acting illegally, I don't know what is.



Anyway, thank you all for elaborating on the subject of rules. I really had no idea we were so rule-bound here. Makes you wonder whether it's all worthwhile.

Cheers.

OOC: How about you try reading earlier posts in this thread if you don't understand what's going on?

Here's a very brief summary:

The Max Barry Day resolution is illegal. It got through because the moderators didn't notice it, and therefore failed to delete it. According to the rules (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=420465), it should have been zapped (the mods have confirmed this). Since it can no longer be deleted, repealing it is the only way of getting rid of it.

It's illegal because of metagaming. Resolutions are passed from an in-character, in-world perspective. Within the NS world, Max Barry either does not exist, or is a writer and international beauty pageant winner; he's not universally acknowledged as the Creator of all things. That's the distinction between In Character and Out of Character, which you need to grasp if you're going to be sticking around in the UN.

If that's still not clear, ask away, and we can clarify.

Thanks for the explanation ... the first response to my post didn't clarify anything at all as I hadn't been following things here in the forum. I assume that, in the future, a suggested resolution like this won't get past the moderators to begin with.

:cool:

And yet, somehow, RL issues like water conservation, labour relations and 'family planning' are good to go, not to mention general rubrics like the English language, the Gregorian calendarGeorge W. Bush is a very specific person. Unique, even. Labor relations are something that (likely) every nation needs to deal with. Specific vs. General.

and the very United Nations itself.Yes. Being in the United Nations requires you to acknowledge the existance of the United Nations.

Were things really so much worse during the Ban the Axis of Evil days?Poor example. That was a test of the system that was never supposed to stick around when the game went live.

You say it's to stop the UN system being flooded with garbage, but that still doesn't really answer my why. What's wrong with the garbage?Ask the Delegates who end up slogging through a twenty page Proposal list, looking for something, anything, worth supporting.

Whom does it benefit to keep the garbage out? It benefits the RPers, that's all.Every Delegate that goes through the list. Every person who doesn't want to learn a foreign language to read the Proposal at vote (yes, people submit them in foreign languages from time to time), every person who doesn't much care for Proposals call for nations to "kill all retards" or for "hot women to walk around naked" or "deport all the niggers" (yes, all three of those have been submitted).

if it's not RP to tell someone his state is acting illegally, I don't know what is.Um... it's not. As a Moderator, I have certain rules I have to follow. One of them is "don't randomly IP ban players". Should I decide that rules are just "roleplaying" and ignore them in your case? Of course not. Rules are restrictions on players, not characters.

Anyway, thank you all for elaborating on the subject of rules. I really had no idea we were so rule-bound here. Makes you wonder whether it's all worthwhile.If you think this is "rule-bound"... well...

I'm a Delegate. What I find a hassle is not looking through pages of proposals, which is quite a pleasant way to kill some time, but rather being harassed via telegram asking me to vote against a piece of harmless fun like MB Day, or approve its repeal, or vote for its repeal, because it's "illegal", it's "metagaming", it's poorly worded, it breaks some fourth wall, yadda yadda yadda. It's people who take this UN thing too seriously who waste my time, not those who apparently don't take it seriously enough.


So where can I go to approve the ****** deporting proposal?

*pulls knitting from bag under chair and listens with some amusement to the arguments*

*looks up with some surprise as a Homing Chinchilla flies through the window and delivers a message*

Oh. my. word...

Apparently I've become a Dictator... hmm... if I could increase taxes over 100% I think I'd do it... ingrates!

IC: Dicey Reilly rises and paces, with due and pompous ceremony, over to the Ariddian delegation.
"It is my great honour today to award to Ambassador-Emeritus Krystellin my nation's Medal for Eloquently Facing Unremitting and Diversified Denseness, popularly known as the E.Fudd, or Elmer.


OOC: Many thanks, but Krystellin isn't Ariddian. ;)

OOC: Many thanks, but Krystellin isn't Ariddian. ;)

*egg, meet face :p. Knew I should have checked.*

IC: "Oh, forgive me, forgive me, Ambassador Boco, I've been under a little stress (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=13151715&postcount=6746) lately ... well, at least I eventually got here ... your delegation's impressive unity of purpose ... utter calm in the face of adversity ... refusal to be swayed from your path ..."

(Dicey babbles in embarrassment for at least five minutes, hoicks the ribbon loop in the general direction of Amb Boco's neck, and scuttles off, still blushing.)

Boco simply smiled.
"I understand. The United Nations is very conducive to stress. Thank you, very much, Madam President. And may I commend you in return for your tireless efforts..." he began, adjusting the ribbon mechanically, while Reilly was already making her hasty exit.

I'm a Delegate. What I find a hassle is not looking through pages of proposals, which is quite a pleasant way to kill some time, but rather being harassed via telegram asking me to vote against a piece of harmless fun like MB Day, or approve its repeal, or vote for its repeal, because it's "illegal", it's "metagaming", it's poorly worded, it breaks some fourth wall, yadda yadda yadda. It's people who take this UN thing too seriously who waste my time, not those who apparently don't take it seriously enough.


So where can I go to approve the ****** deporting proposal?

OOC: I don't mind having fun, or even poking fun at the NSUN, but if we didn't have rules, we WOULD have a lot of crap that would spoil the game. I suspect that if RW references were legal, we'd get stuff bashing an unnamed RW leader of an unnamed RW nation which is totally irrelevant to a fictional game. I don't have a problem with "Max Barry Day", but I do agree with the "No RW" rule, and that's why I support this repeal.

I'm a Delegate. What I find a hassle is not looking through pages of proposals, which is quite a pleasant way to kill some time, but rather being harassed via telegram...ooc: Telegramming isn't harassment. You don't want telegrams? There's an easy way to not get them... stick a note (quite preferably something that's clearly stated and easily seen) to that effect in your World Factbook entry, and learn how to use your TG ignore function. Even easier, get someone else to be delegate.

So where can I go to approve the ****** deporting proposal?Try Stormfront, they'll welcome you with open arms.

So where can I go to approve the ****** deporting proposal? Try Stormfront, they'll welcome you with open arms.

I'm sorry, I meant to comment on that line in Amaranthine Asphodel's post before, but got distracted by the Australian election debate.

In the context of the earlier discussion on rules, plus the serious/too serious line -- ... It's people who take this UN thing too seriously who waste my time, not those who apparently don't take it seriously enough.

So where can I go to approve the ****** deporting proposal?

and knowing that we have a thread on Repeal and Rewrite of End Slavery, I took the comment to be an inept and heavy-handed piece of sarcasm directed at NS standards; trolling, but not intentionally racist trolling.

On that basis, I've TGd Amaranthine Asphodel, pointed out the offensiveness of the term, and also advised him that on an internet forum, where there are no clues to your intent, it's wise to label all sarcasm as such (which rather ruins the point of using it).

OOC: He was responding to a remark from Hack that used that exact term. Perhaps it would be wise for mods not to use that word -- no matter what the context (because Hack was obviously using it to point out its offensiveness) -- so as to prevent other users from mistaking it for a green light to use that word however they like?

Sigh. Thanks, Kenny, I missed that one. Apologetic TG sent. More egg, same face.

The resolution Repeal "Max Barry Day" was passed 6,158 votes to 3,727.

Congratulations to Omigodtheykilledkenny for a successful repeal.


---------
And apologies to Ard...the sarcasm in my reply (in equal amounts to A Asphodel's) wasn't as clear as it should have been.

Indeed...

The resolution Repeal "Max Barry Day" was passed 6,158 votes to 3,727.

Congratulations to Omigodtheykilledkenny for a successful repeal.


It's about time!

Congratulations to Kenny and everyone for helping to pass this repeal!

OOC: Many thanks, but Krystellin isn't Ariddian. ;)

OOC: It's also not Krystellin. But thanks anyway. ;)

IC: We add our congratulations to the delegation of Omigodtheykilledkenny for this successful repeal, and in honor of their efforts, hereby give them our Nut-Kicker device to use on dense or misinformed delegations at their will...except for us, or course.

Jaris Krytellin, Advisor

I never thought I'd say this, but I'm getting the Kennyites a free round of drinks.

And free marzipan babies.

Oh, heck, a free round of drinks for all! Let's celebrate!


Christophe Boco,
Ambassador to the United Nations,
PDSRA

http://atlasshrugs2000.typepad.com/atlas_shrugs/images/paris_riots_day_9.jpg
Police battle celebratory anti-Max Barry Day rent-a-rioters in Paradise City.

Kennyites jubilant over Max Barry Day repeal's success
Authorities try to quell violence in nation's capital, reported nut-kickings jump 168%

PARADISE CITY (Allied Press) --- In front of the Jackson Office Building, where State Department offices are located, pro-sovereigntist demonstrators chant anti-gnome slogans and set fire to bright blue flags bearing the UN insignia. Across the street in the Snakepit, angry feminazi congresswomen tear up photographs of Max Barry and fling the pieces into the air. Blocks away, just outside the government Green Zone, Xt'Tapolopaquetl natives sing "Death to the Infidels!" and explode papier-mache effigies of UN Secretary-General Catherine Gratwick. And in a Frowning Street cabinet meeting, Vice President Antigone Morgan kicks President Fernanda in the crotch.

Widespread anger, perhaps, at yet another disagreeable vote at the United Nations? Nah, these people are celebrating!

The reason: the unexpected success of the Max Barry Day repeal, only the second Kennyite repeal to pass the UN General Assembly (well, the third, if you count that SPCC thingy, the text for which was actually stolen from a drunken Gruenberger diplomat).

"It's about fucking time the UN do something right!" said a pro-sovereigntist protester, bearing a placard reading "Compliance THIS!", the "I" in "this" being an upraised middle finger.

Repeal "Max Barry Day" strikes out a UN resolution (determined to be illegal by Secretariat officials) just 10 days after it was adopted, and follows a rambunctious floor debate that mostly entailed repeal supporters kicking anti-rules diplomats in the nuts.

State Department and UN mission officials expressed mild, if restrained, pleasure at the repeal's passage. "This shows the UN assembly's willingness to admit their mistake at passing an illegal resolution," said Secretary of State Alex Tehrani in a phone interview with a reporter. "This is a victory for common sense, which, ironically, the UN also repealed just five days ago."

"Good for the UN," dully added Cdr. Jenny Chiang as she hurried past reporters outside the Kennyites' UN Headquarters office suite. Chiang, who usually speaks for the Federal Republic at the United Nations, refused to participate in either the debate for Max Barry Day or its repeal, insisting it was beneath her dignity as deputy ambassador even to acknowledge the issue.

"We have dealt to defeat today not to Max Barry, but to rulebreakers in the UN's ranks," said UN adviser Sammy Faisano. "And that's something opponents to this repeal tragically misunderstood. We don't hate Max Barry. He's been a spectacular Miss Omigodtheykilledkenny these past three years."

Faisano's views were sharply contrasted by the Paradise City protesters, whose actions appeared to have been taken not out of respect for UN rules, but resentment at the international holiday itself, as nearly everyone in OMGTKK seems to have a reason to hate that pretentious bastard "Maxx" Barry.

Pro-sovereigntists hate him because he declared UN compliance mandatory; anti-soveriegntists hate him because he supposedly said to NationStates rulers that they were free to "deliberately torture (your people); it's really up to you (http://www.nationstates.net/page=faq#general)"; feminists hate him because he promotes beauty pageants that demean women; Xt'Tap natives also hate him because he routinely competes in events where women shamelessly strut across the stage uncovered; and average Kennyites hate him because they hate most everybody.

As voting closed at UN Headquarters, rent-a-rioters (who likely could care less about Max Barry, as they really have no cause but the promotion of lawlessness) took to the streets in the nation's capital, smashing, burning and blowing up everything in sight, while policemen in riot gear struggled to hold them back.

"It's like soccer riots for politico geeks," explained one law-enforcement official as he lazily clubbed an Xt'Tap demonstrator.

Just after Gratwick declared to the General Assembly that the "ayes" had it on the motion to repeal, OMGTKK Amb. Susa Batko-Yovino rushed the podium, knocked the secretary-general out of the way, ripped off his shirt and demanded, "How you like me now?!" UN security gnomes, having sworn they'd heard that joke before, mistook the ambassador for President Fernanda and detained him for hours.

The repeal actually passed by 365 fewer votes than the original resolution did, and while no one at UNHQ had bothered pointing that out yet, Kennyite security officers said they were "prepared for any contingency."

The success of this repeal is excellent news for conscietious crafters of legislation everywhere. We congratulate the Kennyite delegation and everyone else who worked hard to push this repeal through as quickly and efficiently as possible, and doubtless we won't be the only ones ready to buy them drinks any time they choose to drop into the Stranger's Bar.

I've just received intelligence that the following nations are in active noncompliance with the fifth clause of this duly passed and implemented resolution:

Goobergunchia (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=13143607&postcount=179)
Ariddia (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=13143752&postcount=183)
Flibbleites (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=13143813&postcount=185)
Zarquon Froods (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=13144367&postcount=195)
Waffle warriors (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=13145197&postcount=208)
Good bacon (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=13145835&postcount=218)
Skankbag (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=13151569&postcount=272)

...and finally, Lots of Ants (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=13143034&postcount=164), for not even having nuts to kick in the first place.

If there's anything we in the Federal Republic cannot stand, it's noncompliance with UN resolutions! So we've taken proactive measures to assure that all the steel-cup wearers and all these other nutcases are brought into compliance by gnomish force ... one gnomish force in particular, that takes particular pride in stuffing warferrets down guys' pants and turning their ballsacks into speedbags!

[calls out:]

Yo, Thain Kornweasel! Get your short asses in here, and teach these fecking morons a lesson!

Susa Batko-Yovino
Ambassador to the United Nations

On behalf of the Nifty Republic of Tzorsland in the Region of New York I would like to congratulate the Federal Republic of (pause so I can say this in one breath) Omigodtheykilledkenny (gasp gasp, I really need another regeneration) for passing this repeal so swiftly. Clearly this is another victory for something ... oh yes that's it, Tzorsland's pattent pending platinum cod pieces ... don't enter the UN general assembly without one!

http://i116.photobucket.com/albums/o18/tzor/1mppbgcolumbia.gif

I never thought I'd say this, but I'm getting the Kennyites a free round of drinks.

And free marzipan babies.

Oh, heck, a free round of drinks for all! Let's celebrate!


Christophe Boco,
Ambassador to the United Nations,
PDSRA

Absolutely! Break out the Nebuchadnezzars of Intangible Brut! Pop the corks until each Kennyite is completely slarmy (there'll be none left for the rest of us, but hey, it's their victory)!

What could possibly be more ridiculous than wasting time with a useless gesture of a resolution than to make it the core reasoning behind doing it yet again?

Besides, I voted "Lousy Ingrates!"

Damn right. Max Barry deserves a day on our little thing here. Any man who gives me the chance to determine nudity laws on a national scale has got himself a day in my fake country.

This March 18th, we'll be toasting a brew or two to you, Mr. Barry.

Two-fisted, as we do in Xorxhenxoula. And a hell of a way to stretch out St. Pat's.

Can't even feel my nuts, then.

This March 18th, we'll be toasting a brew or two to you, Mr. Barry.

Good. Fine. Do it on your own time. I don't need the UN to tell me or my nation what we're supposed to honor or when we're supposed to honor it.
Especially if it's on a day that doesn't even exist on our calendars.

Meanwhile, there have been massive bonfires all over the country to destroy any calendar that has a "March 18th" in it. And let me tell you, I was right there in line with everyone else.

Good day.

Eros Tatriel
UN Rep. for Subistratica

We thought of bonfires, but instead decided to use calenders listing the repulsive 'Max Barry Day' as part of propoganda warfare. This was mostly because the resolutions short life enabled only one company to produce calenders with this holiday. We then had millions of worthless "15 Sexiest Asexual Slugs of the Year" calenders (apparently the producers couldn't count months). We have since been dropping the calenders over nations which voted against the repeal.

Ambassador Batko-Yovino, I'd like to point out that your repeal calls for "Randomly kicking ambassadors in the nuts for even thinking this proposal was a good idea." First off, I never thought this was a good idea (the original proposal, not the repeal). Secondly, if you kick everyone who casts a vote on this repeal, it's not random, and as a result you're not in compliance with your resolution. Thirdly, I want to have kids someday, so I took steps to insure the safety of my nuts. I ask you, is that so wrong?

Bob Flibble
UN Representative

Thirdly, I want to have kids someday, so I took steps to insure the safety of my nuts. I ask you, is that so wrong?


I myself have come to the conclusion that I'd best procreate hastily, while I still can.

Being ambassador the the UN can be so very hazardous...


Christophe Boco,
etc...

We then had millions of worthless "15 Sexiest Asexual Slugs of the Year" calenders (apparently the producers couldn't count months). We have since been dropping the calenders over nations which voted against the repeal.Oh dear, oh my, what a waste of perfectly good calendars. I say. And such a coincidence, we slugs have 15 months in our year.

Perhaps you would be so kind as to air drop some of those our way? Brown paper bags not necessary.

J. Noah Dinsweed,
Representative
Asexual Sapient Slugs

I myself have come to the conclusion that I'd best procreate hastily, while I still can.

Being ambassador the the UN can be so very hazardous...


Christophe Boco,
etc...

That's why I'm very careful to stay both far away from windows, and away from anyone with heavy shoes. It's safer this way.

Serifina Karin

Oh dear, oh my, what a waste of perfectly good calendars. I say. And such a coincidence, we slugs have 15 months in our year.

Perhaps you would be so kind as to air drop some of those our way? Brown paper bags not necessary.

J. Noah Dinsweed,
Representative
Asexual Sapient Slugs

I've been assured that our remaining calenders are being sent in your direction, under the guise of 'forgein aid.' If its not enough, you could always take them from the original targets...preferably by force.

Sir Bodsworth Rugglesby VI
UN Ambassador and Minister of Apologies
Newly Appointed Minister of Civil and Military Calender Distribution

I've just received intelligence that the following nations are in active noncompliance with the fifth clause of this duly passed and implemented resolution:

Goobergunchia (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=13143607&postcount=179)
Ariddia (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=13143752&postcount=183)
Flibbleites (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=13143813&postcount=185)
Zarquon Froods (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=13144367&postcount=195)
Waffle warriors (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=13145197&postcount=208)
Good bacon (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=13145835&postcount=218)
Skankbag (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=13151569&postcount=272)

...and finally, Lots of Ants (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=13143034&postcount=164), for not even having nuts to kick in the first place.

If there's anything we in the Federal Republic cannot stand, it's noncompliance with UN resolutions! So we've taken proactive measures to assure that all the steel-cup wearers and all these other nutcases are brought into compliance by gnomish force ... one gnomish force in particular, that takes particular pride in stuffing warferrets down guys' pants and turning their ballsacks into speedbags!

[calls out:]

Yo, Thain Kornweasel! Get your short asses in here, and teach these fecking morons a lesson!

Susa Batko-Yovino
Ambassador to the United Nations


*Susa Batko-Yovino approaches Zarquon's desk to inform him of his heinous act of nocompliance. He addresses the situation with his head still shrouded as follows*

"Noncompliance you say? I thought I had changed my vote, apparently not. Here, let me use my time travelling InstaVote™ button to resend my FOR vote back in time to before the measure passed. But, could you move just a little bit to the left. Little more. Yes, that's fine.

*Yovino was now standing over a small white "x" on the floor, oblivious to the fact. Meanwhile Zarquon looks at the buttons on his desk, trying to remember which one was the InstaVote™.*

"Ah, here we are!"

*Click*

There was a very ghastly silence.
There was a very ghastly noise.
There was a very ghastly silence.

*Once the dust settled, the surrounding delegates were stunned to find Yovino trapped beneath a large iron safe screaming unthinkable words at Zarquon, or at least they were something that ressembled words.*

*Zarquon turned to his aides*

"Yes, that turned out to be the right button after all."