NationStates Jolt Archive

big bombs and lasers, grasers, nukes, fusion, antimater it cant penetrate through the wedge. Heck even TY's missiles dont they just "Bypass" it which seems in threoy to be a good method.

Void Missiles, they work basically by skipping between the Warp and the Real world, much like a Stone skipping across a Pond. Basically one second they are in the physical the next they are gone and elsewhere, then they return, before departing again.


I haven't had time to keep up with the IC threads, but I hope yer not planning to use these within the FTLi feild-of-effect at Vernii's capital; you will not be able to cross either way between the warp(or anything/where else, for that matter) and real space within a TrueSpace Barrier Effector's area of interdiction.

Since there are so many different kinds of FTL in NS, I would imagine that an inhibitor that can prevent any FTL would work.

Afterall, such inhibitors work on warpgates, no? And the missile pretty much does the same as a warp gate...it just goes between "the immaterium" and realspace.

Of course, an Valinon fleet might not know to use them, or might want them off so it can itself flee or bring in reinforcements.

Keep in mind though, if you do this, then you basically accept that Trek players (like Sunset) can beam bombs onto your ships.

*****

XASERs and GrASERs: Basically, just a super-high frequency of light. What makes them great? Outstanding penetration. Not necessarially outstanding damage, they do the same amount of damage as any other laser of the same power-density. But outstanding penetration. Where a laser has to burn through a hull, much of a XASER's or GrASER's energy will go through it to damage internal components and weaken the armor along the path of the beam.

MASERs: A laser in the microwave (very low) band. MASERs have to have a wide aparature (wide barrel) because the length of their wavelength (a laser aparature should be at least one order of magnitude, or 10x in width of the wavelength...or the laser will scatter). What are MASERs good for? MASERs basically have the same effect as an EMP, but on a smaller scale...that is, they induce current in conductors. Unlike an EMP, they usually don't have the power to fry circuits, but they can blind them.

A MASER held on target can produce a continuous current in a circuit which basically turns all 0s (zeros) to 1s. You can blank out a missile's tracking system, (attempt to) blind a ship, etc. And a strong enough MASER *might* do a little heat damage (could melt antennas, weapons barrels, perhaps set of warheads in a missile magazine).

So MASERs are basically a tactical weapon. Just shooting at things with them won't do much, but if your smart you can make them useful.

Keep in mind though, if you do this, then you basically accept that Trek players (like Sunset) can beam bombs onto your ships.



That's another use for FTLi; depending on how it works, it can usually pervent certain types of teleportation, and anoying things like a desperate enemy trying to jump a ship into one of yours. Very anoying, especially given that such tactics can theoreticly one-shot-kill expensive supercapital ships.

Doesn't
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Dgsatw...the most powerful weapon of all :P WHO CARES! get to the story line!

That's another use for FTLi; depending on how it works, it can usually pervent certain types of teleportation, and anoying things like a desperate enemy trying to jump a ship into one of yours. Very anoying, especially given that such tactics can theoreticly one-shot-kill expensive supercapital ships.

No theory about it *cough*Angeluskillingmothership*hack*cough*weeze*

ah thanks for the explaination Wazzu help clear some things up for me also.

Auman as for tech wanking...this is future tech which i equate what we RP here to a form of fanfiction in the scifi genre. Some of the best future tech posts are like storys themselves.

What make sci-fi good all the best authors say my favorit Arthur C Clarke alway add indepth technological explainations to thier stories. You have to understand the tech of another player to effectivly RP with them. I havent seen much wanking going on here at'tall

Since there are so many different kinds of FTL in NS, I would imagine that an inhibitor that can prevent any FTL would work.

Afterall, such inhibitors work on warpgates, no? And the missile pretty much does the same as a warp gate...it just goes between "the immaterium" and realspace.

Of course, an Valinon fleet might not know to use them, or might want them off so it can itself flee or bring in reinforcements.

Keep in mind though, if you do this, then you basically accept that Trek players (like Sunset) can beam bombs onto your ships.

*****

XASERs and GrASERs: Basically, just a super-high frequency of light. What makes them great? Outstanding penetration. Not necessarially outstanding damage, they do the same amount of damage as any other laser of the same power-density. But outstanding penetration. Where a laser has to burn through a hull, much of a XASER's or GrASER's energy will go through it to damage internal components and weaken the armor along the path of the beam.

MASERs: A laser in the microwave (very low) band. MASERs have to have a wide aparature (wide barrel) because the length of their wavelength (a laser aparature should be at least one order of magnitude, or 10x in width of the wavelength...or the laser will scatter). What are MASERs good for? MASERs basically have the same effect as an EMP, but on a smaller scale...that is, they induce current in conductors. Unlike an EMP, they usually don't have the power to fry circuits, but they can blind them.

A MASER held on target can produce a continuous current in a circuit which basically turns all 0s (zeros) to 1s. You can blank out a missile's tracking system, (attempt to) blind a ship, etc. And a strong enough MASER *might* do a little heat damage (could melt antennas, weapons barrels, perhaps set of warheads in a missile magazine).

So MASERs are basically a tactical weapon. Just shooting at things with them won't do much, but if your smart you can make them useful.

Thanks for that very informative post Wazzu.

Now I can be more in-depth with my technology. I guess I'll put some Grasers and Xasers on my ships instead of somewhat vague ion cannons.

With my tech, I don't think I have anything terribly specific. Definately nothing that's top-of-the-line shielding or weapons technology, but generally HEPD fields coupled with lasers mounted in magnetic fast-tracking turrets to kill missiles, fighters, and dissipate electromagnetic waves. Not terribly imaginative, but it works...more or less.

For drives, its generally ion thrusters which supply a great speed, and a repulsor rudder system. But I've never been terribly specific on my tech. Its been so long since I've read any Asimov, and Frank Herbert's Dune series doesn't really have much reasonable space tech in it.

I think I might end up borrowing from Honorverse.

Well, the way I see it Wick. There's no reason cluttering up a small post with a technological explaination of something when you could be dealing with more interesting human drama...alot of people make tech posts. I would if I cared about it, I only tech wank when necessary.You should just make a tech post somewhere and link people to it if they have questions about what ever you are typing about.

Tech-wanking...

Realize this: In Honorverse one person is writing the story. This is very important as this keeps the technology balanced between the combatants and again brings it back to the story itself. Honorverse is about tall ships in space (sounds oddly familiar for some reason) and thus the technology used and explained provides a good background for those stories.

In free-form RP we all write the story - and we all have different styles of writing. Some of us are hard(or semi-hard) realists, some of us are character writers, and some of us are in-between. Myself, I'm a character writer. Even when I do tech writing (which I'm sure some of you might have seen) I use it as background for the characters themselves. I might try to provide explinations but I'm sometimes wrong and sometimes pulling something completely out of my ass.

The point is that to me flinging around things like numbers of missiles, numbers of ships, and even numbers of dead and wounded is unreasonable. This is not unreasonable to someone like Valinon - they prefer a bit more 'hard' data, while someone like Wazzu might prefer extremely hard information. They are all attempting to tell the story in their own way however - and that is what should be judged. How well are they telling the story?

Of course that brings up the huge judgement call of what one should base this judgement on. For pure character interaction and non-war story there is simply the judgement of the individual characters. How would they react to what the other characters are saying? What is in-character for them to do? In war judgement gets a little bit trickier - and at least for me the lines blur. Here's how it goes: Story > Reasonable > Character > Stats.

If your writing is reasonable and measured I give it more credence and effect than if you have uber-shields that allow nothing through, weapons that cannot be dodged, etc. If you tell the story well, and it fits in with the rest of the established story, it gets more credence. If there is character interaction and that character interaction is reasonable and advances the story - more credence. And finally, if they are being a wanker and have nothing else worthwhile in their posts, I'll fall back to pure and simple stats. Long strings of numbers be damned - if you want to wank numbers and for some reason I need to participate (usually I won't) I'll fall back on stats.

That certainly meandered all over the place. Ultimate point? Tech-wanking or not you need to realize that the other people are making a judgement call on your writing and posting. Absolutely post in a style that is comfortable for you - I'm all about the free will - but realize that they have a judgement system as well and your posts just might not be judged worthy.

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That certainly meandered all over the place. Ultimate point? Tech-wanking or not you need to realize that the other people are making a judgement call on your writing and posting. Absolutely post in a style that is comfortable for you - I'm all about the free will - but realize that they have a judgement system as well and your posts just might not be judged worthy.

Seconded!

Agreed. I for one regret going to a number heavy system in recent months and the changes that are coming in Valinon after this war will show that. I will return to an energy heavier Star Armada, with fewer "ships of the wall" (a term I will retain), but with large quantities of automation and escort, light capital ships. For instance, the SSTF after this war (and after Adonis is "reassigned") will only be several cruiser squadrons with a carrier/battleship task force attached. Valinor dreadnoughts and super-dreadnoughts will become a rare sight out of the home stars and there will be a good reason behind this.

Agreed. I for one regret going to a number heavy system in recent months and the changes that are coming in Valinon after this war will show that. I will return to an energy heavier Star Armada, with fewer "ships of the wall" (a term I will retain), but with large quantities of automation and escort, light capital ships. For instance, the SSTF after this war (and after Adonis is "reassigned") will only be several cruiser squadrons with a carrier/battleship task force attached. Valinor dreadnoughts and super-dreadnoughts will become a rare sight out of the home stars and there will be a good reason behind this.

Really? I actually have been going to a fleet with more ships of the line. I built a few dreadnaughts (4km long, refer to the link a few pages back), to compliment the 100 or so cruisers, and this force forms the RGF's battle arm. I recently retired a lot of my destroyer-sized vessels, since freighters traveling via hyperspace don't really need an escort, and most RGF freighters have destroyer-class armement. I still operate a few thousand frigates, which are mostly used as science and exploration ships.

I cut my fleet numbers down and turned it into a lean, mean, fighting machine. Its more fun having a smaller, brutal fleet I think. Though, large fleets have their benefits. I'll miss the lumbering Valinon fleet...it reminded me of the old days.

Agreed. I for one regret going to a number heavy system in recent months and the changes that are coming in Valinon after this war will show that. I will return to an energy heavier Star Armada, with fewer "ships of the wall" (a term I will retain), but with large quantities of automation and escort, light capital ships. For instance, the SSTF after this war (and after Adonis is "reassigned") will only be several cruiser squadrons with a carrier/battleship task force attached. Valinor dreadnoughts and super-dreadnoughts will become a rare sight out of the home stars and there will be a good reason behind this.

Really? I actually have been going to a fleet with more ships of the line. I built a few dreadnaughts (4km long, refer to the link a few pages back), to compliment the 100 or so cruisers, and this force forms the RGF's battle arm. I recently retired a lot of my destroyer-sized vessels, since freighters traveling via hyperspace don't really need an escort, and most RGF freighters have destroyer-class armement. I still operate a few thousand frigates, which are mostly used as science and exploration ships.

However, there's still a bunch of light escorts, which are generally 100 meters or so long, and carry enhanced shielding systems, specialized weapons, and the like. Although these too have recently fallen out of favor because they can't really operate on their own...

Myself I have a handful of enormously powerful, durible, and expensive fleet killers(3x Battleplates and 7x Superfortresses) that would take atleast two RL months to replace(tho I could build a few in paralell), along with 32x 350m long "pocket dreadnaughts"(again enormously expensive, but far less than the above, and their keystone element is an armour that would take 100 RL days to make, meaning replacment would take me over 3 months). There are a few hundred very light ships for patrol and S&R, but they're centuries old and not exactly what you'd call very combat effective; things like Piracy are unheard of in the Home Cluster, so there's never been any need.

I typicly ballance my warship's potential power with caution, numericly minimal deployments(I've only deployed multipule supercapital ships, um, 3-4 times I think; multipule Battleplates only twice), and not taking full advantake of my capibilities unless I think my opponent is up to the task. That's in addition to the drawbacks in loss replacment and force projection that such an arrangment yeilds, and my utter lack of a decent sized army outside the privatly funded militia, which, naturally, can't be used offencivly(hell, I'm over thrice the size of China and my army's probally smaller than Canada's).

I haven't lost a ship yet, but that's mainly because Shivans have all the tactical sense of a bent nail, and I've only gotten into a few large fights overall.

The Robotic Galactic Flotilla doesn't actually have that many large-scale commitments. That and there's no home system to defend, since LRR's nomadic.

The 150-odd heavy combat vessels (dreadnaughts and battlecruisers) generally operate in fleets of 1 dread and 10 cruisers, to be joined by frigates if it ever gets into combat, while the several thousand frigates are pretty much free.

By the way, would you guys mind if I sent inspection teams to monitor how well POWs are treated after the battle concludes?

From what Val tells me Auman i dont think you will miss his fleet, if his Ships of the Wall appear in anywheres but AC, the bad guy better run because hes going to get wanked.

Uh, Dingo, Valinon's ships don't really have engines. They have impeller nodes positioned in two rings near the bow and stern, they generate the wedge. I suppose they could be targetted, but it'd be hard, and they can function even with a lot of nodes blown out.

Engines is what they shall be called as not everyone knows their proper name. But I guess It'll be easier to just rip the ship to shreds, then, which was the original plan.

Myself I have a handful of enormously powerful, durible, and expensive fleet killers(3x Battleplates and 7x Superfortresses) that would take atleast two RL months to replace(tho I could build a few in paralell), along with 32x 350m long "pocket dreadnaughts"(again enormously expensive, but far less than the above, and their keystone element is an armour that would take 100 RL days to make, meaning replacment would take me over 3 months). There are a few hundred very light ships for patrol and S&R, but they're centuries old and not exactly what you'd call very combat effective; things like Piracy are unheard of in the Home Cluster, so there's never been any need.

I typicly ballance my warship's potential power with caution, numericly minimal deployments(I've only deployed multipule supercapital ships, um, 3-4 times I think; multipule Battleplates only twice), and not taking full advantake of my capibilities unless I think my opponent is up to the task. That's in addition to the drawbacks in loss replacment and force projection that such an arrangment yeilds, and my utter lack of a decent sized army outside the privatly funded militia, which, naturally, can't be used offencivly(hell, I'm over thrice the size of China and my army's probally smaller than Canada's).

I haven't lost a ship yet, but that's mainly because Shivans have all the tactical sense of a bent nail, and I've only gotten into a few large fights overall.

Sounds like the run of the mill Wazzu frigate...if a bit larger. Wazzu has fewer then 100 combat ships 50 meters or larger, most of them "frigates" in the 250-315 meter range...then again, the class system in Wazzu is different too, ships are classified by function rather then length. There are corvettes more powerful then some frigates, and some frigates larger then destroyers (of which there are exactly 2), and nothing classified as cruiser or better.

But thats all about to change.

After getting back from basic training, I'm revamping Wazzu.

While it was a (human) Dominion (with a few dwarves) and a few protectorates, the dominion itself now has become a (the largest) protectorate of a loose commonwealth/union. So now I'll have human/dwarf, elf(kinda), therian, and protoss protectorates, all with their own technologies, militaries, and politics.

The idea isn't to give me more and better ships. The idea is to enable me to RP pseudo-different "nations" for different RP circumstances. So just because the old Wazzu (the Dominion protectorate) wouldn't get involved doesn't mean I can't get involved in what looks like a great RP.

What this means for the human(and FEW dwarf) dominion is chaos. No strong political leader, the leaving of most strong military leaders, large changes in the political system, and soon a complete revamping of the space-borne military as West slinks off with most of the interplanetary capible ships.

And at first, it won't be a good change to the military. It'll allow me to do a few neat things (not characteristic of my normal RP "realism" style), but the ships will overall be less effective in combat.

For a while...until the Dominion of Wazzu gets its act back together. At this rate, that could be anywhere between 2 months and a year, especially with classes starting soon (most of my time will be goooone.

But thats the future in a nutshell! The details will work themselves out and hopefully make for a good storyline (especially with interaction between the protectorates and with the outside world...universe).

Sounds like the run of the mill Wazzu frigate...if a bit larger. Wazzu has fewer then 100 combat ships 50 meters or larger, most of them "frigates" in the 250-315 meter range...then again, the class system in Wazzu is different too, ships are classified by function rather then length. There are corvettes more powerful then some frigates, and some frigates larger then destroyers (of which there are exactly 2), and nothing classified as cruiser or better.


Well, they were originally, and, technicly, still are classifyed as frigates because of their size; the term 'pocket dreadnaught' started as a class nickname a while back, later growing in popularity by virtue of it's acuracy.

I know that they aren't realistic physics, but could someone tell me what gives Valinon ships enough energy to get to 0.7c?

Someone mentioned the energy comes from hyperspace, but that was never confirmed...and the website didn't mention.

Or does the Honorverse even attempt to describe this?

I'm pretty sure it's some sort of hyperspace tap.

Disclaimer this is from HH tech sights...Val's ships for now are based on this tech so i assume this info is correct...


Propulsion, for small vessels and missiles as well as the large classes of warships are gravity based. They achieve acceleration by the simple expedient of generating an impeller "wedge" , two planes of artificial gravity "above" and "below" the ship. These planes pull the ship toward them, and the since the planes are generated from the ship they move with it, pulling it toward them in the same way that a mule will continue to pursue a carrot dangled in front of him by a rider. You could call this the Cosmic Carrot theory. Unfortunately, the nature of the design requires it to be open at the front and rear, which means the top speed of the vessel in normal space is limited by the efficiency of the shielding both for atomic particles, i.e. radiation, and larger objects, meteors and the like. The effects of acceleration are canceled out by using the gravity wedge as an inertial sump. Top speed in normal space as limited by shielding, is .7c for warships or .6c for commercial vessels with their less expensive (and effective) shielding. All warships have approximately the same top speed, but the acceleration varies, with the smaller vessels being considerable quicker off the mark.


AND...

Propulsion:

Major Honorverse ships use what is called an Impeller Wedge for normal-space propulsion. This wedge is a band of artificially generated gravity fields of unbelievable intensity both above and below the ship. These bands are so intense that they are impervious to all known weapons. Nothing can pass through them, not even light. (A ship's sensors can penetrate their own wedge, but only because the wedge's gravity shear is precisely known.) These bands are angled in such a way as to have their after aspect being narrower than the front. They are also huge, some of the larger vessels wedges can reach 100 kilometers in diameter. The sides of the bands are stitched together by much weaker gravity fields, called sidewalls, that offer protection to the ship's sides. The major drawback to the impeller wedge is that both the leading and trailing aspects of the impeller wedge must be open to allow any propulsion or maneuverability, not even a sidewall is allowed. This makes an 'up the kilt' shot, or more desirable, a 'down the throat' shot something that ships in combat will try to achieve against, and deny to, their opponent.

There is another level of protection that is designed to protect from particulate matter while traveling at high speeds, and another one to protect the crew from radiation from both nuclear warheads and cosmic radiation.

Speeds, Distances and Acceleration:

The speed of light is just under 299,837 kilometers per second. This speed is called Cee, or referenced with a lower case letter c, as in E=Mc2 (remember that one?)

Distances in space are normally immense, but can be referenced by using a time-fragment of light. Since light travels at 299,837 Kps, then a light second is 299,837 kilometers. A light minute is 60 times that value, etcetera. (The Earth is approximately eight and a half light minutes from our sun.)

The rate of acceleration is in Gravities and shown with a lower case g. One g of acceleration is just about 32 feet per second squared, or fps2. This however will not match the fact that everything else is going to be in metric, so a single g of acceleration will be 9.7536 meters per second squared, or mps2. Ships in normal space can accelerate at a very large number of gs. For example, the HMS Tramontane, an Edward Saganami class heavy cruiser has an official maximum acceleration of 604g in normal space. This equates to just under 5,981 mps2 or about 6kps2. (Acceleration is sometimes referred to as delta-v.)

The Tramontane, as do all of the Honorverse military ships have a maximum speed of .8c, or 8/10th the speed of light. This works out to about 239,918 Kps. From absolute rest, she can attain this speed in 11 hours, 2 minutes and 2 seconds. It also takes the same amount of time to decelerate from this speed.


SO...that was a mouthful but the wedges pulls the ship along. The wedge dosnt draw energy from hyper, though it can be used for acceleration in hyper though this is dangourous.

Where does a wedge get the energy that it imparts into a ship in the form of acceleration, then? Conservation of energy, remember.

ahhh the wedge is created/formed by the Impeller Nodes. There are two impeller rings one at the fore and aft of the vessel. its ringed with large Alpha nodes and smaller beta nodes. The alpha are used to power the FTL drive(the Sails) the beta nodes are used to form and power the wedge. The nodes are powered by Fuision power.

This is simple and off the top of my head....

Wick, I said I read the website, and it didn't answer my question...that is, where the energy comes from.

ahhh the wedge is created/formed by the Impeller Nodes. There are two impeller rings one at the fore and aft of the vessel. its ringed with large Alpha nodes and smaller beta nodes. The alpha are used to power the FTL drive(the Sails) the beta nodes are used to form and power the wedge. The nodes are powered by Fuision power.

This is simple and off the top of my head....

Fusion isn't enough to do this...unless the vast majority of the ship is fuel...and that is just to accelerate.

I imagine a Ramscoop could work, but only at higher velocities (and then acceleration and speed would vary depending on ship location).

The thing is, I simply don't know. I was wondering how (Weber is it?) explains it...if he does at all. Or how Valinon explains it.

NOTE: I'm not complaining, I'm perfectly willing to accept a futuretech answer, I just want to understand what Valinon is doing.

Valinor warships are powered by quantum singularity reactors, with a pair of "secondary" matter/anti-matter reactors. I do not have my notes with me, so I do not have a break down of reactors per class. However, I will try to post that as soon as possible. Valinor warships haven't been fusioned powered since the end of the Outer Dominion Wars. My quantum reactors are a hybrid of technology merging elements from Sid Mier's Alpha Centauri and Babylon 5's quantum singularity reactors (a detailed explanation of these can be found at www.b5tech.com).

Valinon, I must say for the record now that the FTL Jehuty uses is Realspace FTL, not Hyperspace or any other funky space FTL. There's a difference between the two. What the hell was it that could be penetrated by close to c things?-P I don't see why it would protect stuff from stuff that go over c any better.

EDIT: Ah, and also note that Jehuty's going for a side, not heads on.

Valinon, I must say for the record now that the FTL Jehuty uses is Realspace FTL, not Hyperspace or any other funky space FTL. There's a difference between the two. What the hell was it that could be penetrated by close to c things?-P I don't see why it would protect stuff from stuff that go over c any better.

EDIT: Ah, and also note that Jehuty's going for a side, not heads on.

Real space FTL is just...bleh.

I mean, you have to take into account all those things, like relativaty, time travel, stuff that I read books about but fail to remember into the next week.

I mean, if you went faster than light you would be...wouldn't you arrive before you left, or something? Or go back in time? Oh, the singularities!

Real space FTL is just...bleh.

I mean, you have to take into account all those things, like relativaty, time travel, stuff that I read books about but fail to remember into the next week.

Considering how these "impeller wedges", sizes of fleets, many weapons, shield systems, engines and other sci-fi technology and whatnot sound COMPLETELY AND UTTERLY IMPOSSIBLE - and most likely IS -, I can't see what your problem is. Or are you just being selectively critical of things?

This system is based on distorting space and causing it to launch you at a very great speed (FTL) when space starts to restore itself in the place where the distortion happened into the direction you choose. I guess you could call it "hacking" Realspace to bend its laws and whatnot.

You didn't read that last sentence in my post.

See, I have my questions with the impeller wedges and such, but with realspace FTL, wouldn't it be a time machine?

But I did. It still does not change the fact that realspace FTL is about as realistic and doable as much of the technology people use anyway. Selective criticism of some technologies is very... How should I say... Hypocritical.

You should take into consideration the possibility of the Universe going boom-boom when you use antimatter weapons, but people don't - theories are all we have now, but flinging that stuff around like that is still unrealistic. You should take into consideration that your ships might explode due to using very unstable substances as... Anything, but people don't. You should take into consideration that if a shield is in Hyperspace, it can't exist since there's no such thing as Hyperspace, but people don't. You should take into consideration that claiming many star systems is unrealistic when you have 3 billion or less people, but people don't. You should take into consideration the amount of HEAT firing them lasers and somesuch weaponry constantly would cause, but people don't. You should take into consideration that you can only have limited ammo, but people don't. You should take into consideration that the people in your fleets would lose morale and flee from battle, but people don't. You should take into consideration that your fleets can't always be in tip-top condition and ready for battle, but people don't.

The list goes on and on. There are so many things that are blatantly unrealistic and are done daily on NS that Realspace FTL fits in just nicely with them all. And how can you say that there won't be such FTL in the future? Maybe, as I said, it will be possible to "hack" reality and do it at some point. It still is based on distorting space, and when it begins restoring itself, it slingshots the thing wherever it wanted to go. No otherworldly Hyperspaces involved.

I have to side with Dingo Egret on this one...If you accept magic, psionics, super-powers, gravitic-wedges, hyper/sub/whateverspace...hell, you may as well accept "real-space FTL."

To be honest, it doesn't matter what 'space' you are in. If you get from one place to another faster then light can, you've just time-traveled.

As long as it isn't overly powerful, I don't see how anyone can oppose this one thing.

Fine, Egert, but you just proved my other point. This Gundam of yours still has to "phase" through normal space, which is the terminology I use. It does not merely hyper-accelerate as you yourself say it "shifts," which implies it momentarily disappears and reappears. This is the way my post interpreted the action and this is the way I'm standing by it. If you don't like then by God please leave, I'm sick of Auman's tactically ineptitude and that of this puppets. The day mobile suits are an effective weapon against capital ships outside of the ridiculous under-powered warships of the mobile suit sagas will be the day I turn religious.

Yeah I think I see your point Dingo. But, I mean, you can't completely throw physics out the window. In the instance of faster-than-light travel, you sort of have to, but on the whole when not traveling long distances, ships tend to go below c, weapons at or below c, etc. etc.

And dreads are pretty big. My cruisers are 2 km long, and they're about half the size of a dread.

It still is based on distorting space, and when it begins restoring itself, it slingshots the thing wherever it wanted to go.

Think that seems like it would included "Phasing" in and out through distoration and its Restoration.

I guess I should also say that if he is using real-space FTL to try and get through a solid object (or "gravity wedge" as it were)...well, he isn't "phasing out" of anything...he is in REAL SPACE as per the claim.

Bug on a windshield? :)

You gotta wonder what that would look like...

-- (or "gravity wedge" as it were)...well, he isn't "phasing out" of anything...he is in REAL SPACE as per the claim.

Bug on a windshield?

NOT. I said I was going at the BROADSIDE of one of his destroyers, since they were showing those sides to Jehuty. And considering that they're, I am told, VERY SLOW in TURNING, they couldn't have turned to face Jehuty in that little time. That means, NO DICE! NO IMPERVIOUS PELLET DETECTOR WAREZ D00D WEDGIES there!

Look, here it is: "-- Jehuty 0-shifted towards one of the destroyers which were showing their broadsides --"

See the word "broadside"? "Broadside" != attacking it from its front or from its behind. So what Jehuty is facing is the sidewall thing that isn't OMG IMPERVIOUS, but can be penetrated by things that go over that 0.7 c frac, which Jehuty happens to be going.

And Valinon, HOW MANY TIMES do I have to tell you that it's NOT A GUNDAM? That it's NOT a mobile suit? The ships in Zone of the Enders are quite a bit different from the ones in Gundams, armed with quite a few PD weapons and are even defended by hordes of fighters and other Orbital Frames. But since I don't think they were exactly expecting to meet a hostile Orbital Frame - they were going to destroy a bunch of crappy LEVs, after all.

Where did you get the idea that wedges are bow and stern? They are ventral and dorsal. Also, the sidewalls cover the the broadsides. Here's a pic of a superdreadnought and wedge/sidewalls.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v73/Jadeite/wedge.gif

Capital ships don't manuever very quickly, but the lighter ships can spin about their axis pretty fast.

Yea a ship like a Dreadnaught can take up to minutes to rotate yet anything the size of a heavy cruiser and small are often described as whirling dervishes in battle. something like a valinor DD i imagine can rotate in a matter of seconds.

Ok ok we get the idea that jehuty is a super gundum then

Ok ok we get the idea that jehuty is a super gundum then

Oh yeah? At least it's not just an OMG HUMONGOUS DILDO like all of your HHverse ships are. Oh, and I get the idea that your OMG WEDGIES CANNOT BE PENETRATED SINCE THEY'RE OMG TEH TEK OF TEH GODS!!!!!!!!! AND THAT NO ONE CAN HAVE ANYTHING THAT CAN PENETRATE YOUR STUFF SINCE HAVING STUFF THAT'S BETTAR TAHN YORS IS OMG GRODMODDERY!!!!!! YEAH, DON'T MENTION THAT OVER HALF OF YOUR COMBINED POPULATIONS ARE MANNING TEH OMG HUMONGOUS FLEETS OF THESE 8792378958792357853298 YOTTAMETER LONG STEEL PENII!!!!!!! AND TAHT TEH 879253985879253825387923 STAR SYSTEMS YOU HAVE HAF LIKE 0.00000000000000000000000001 PEOPLE IN EACH ONE OF 'EM!!!!!!

... Regaining composure.

Just shut the hell up on that crap already. LOOK at your own stuff for a second. JUST LOOK AT IT. Then look at Jehuty. WHICH ONE should be considered more of a stretch, huh?

Your massive fleets of GIGANTIC ships that can practically be fought ONLY by ships from the damn universe they're from due to your own stubbornness, since only like Culture ships could fight them due to those "invincible" shields (and I bet you wouldn't accept even THEM scratching your precious ships) and the fact that you claim hundreds of star systems with a few billion people even when they're combined. Hell, it'd be hard to fill a single star system with a nice number of planets with that few people.

Or this single, unique Orbital Frame, that's shorter than your god damn missiles (I heard they are 20 meters in length from someone who has read those books you base your stuff on) and also most likely quite a bit more maneuverable than those missiles are? That happens to be this whole nation alone?

Well? I'm not even asking for much here. It's not like one god damned destroyer is your whole fleet, Valinon. Is it soooo hard to accept that something this small could actually destroy one of your smaller ships? Because you're so bent on your view of "OMG GUNDAMS CAN'T DO SHIT!!!!!", you think that nothing that small could do anything to your stuff? Somehow I think even it that you actually sent so many ships as you did after it is more unrealistic than the fact that Jehuty's there and still practically unharmed.

Chill. No one has expanded into hundreds of systems, and no one has half their population serving in their navy. Superdreadnought averages around 5,000-6,000 crewmen. My entire navy has something around 1-1.5 million crewmen in it.

and besides i am more then willing to take losses look at the battle between myself and ortaga and he doenst have wedges or HH tech at all. I suppose though it is becasue i suppose just not used to having one enemy just fleets and such.

Perhapes some of the issues you and val got is because you all never RP together before and some uncertains have arose. RP around it instead of getting all testy. And be happy this is after all supposed to be fun isnt it?

Good, to many people i know getting stressed and have strokes dont none of u have that happen ok?

Well...I think the problem here is that, for the sake of fairness...more or less...one supership is less fair than a big fleet, because one supership can take pretty much anything, while a big fleet gets its ships shot out of it. And going faster than light in real space means nothing, except for expensive and complicated temporal weapons, can even hit it.

And, I mean, a ship like Jehuty v.s. Val dreads and big ships...I mean, they just aren't meant to fight eachother.

And also, you don't really need a lot of people to run relatively large ships. I mean, to use your 'if he can do it than so can I' argument, if Jehuty can have real-space FTL, why can't I have a computer AI capable of running a ship? And these 'huge fleets' aren't necessarily that big. Valinon might have mabye 10 or so dreads, perhaps 150-200 smaller large combatants, like destroyers and such, plus a cloud of auxiliary craft. Say each dread has a crew of 4,000, thats 40,000, plus say each smaller large combatant has a crew of 1,000 average, that's 150-200,000, and most smallers are pilotless. That's 240,000 combat crew, and even if maintainance crew is ten times as much, or 2,400,000, that's still only 2,640,000 in his fleet. And that's far less than the maximum number of people in one's military going by the 4% of the population rule. He can respectibly have something like a 50,000,000-man military at his age.

And, I mean, a ship like Jehuty v.s. Val dreads and big ships...I mean, they just aren't meant to fight eachother.

"Val's destroyer" isn't "Val's dreadnought". Not even "Val's big ship", methinks. Not meant to fight each other? Obviously, Jehuty is meant to fight anything. But it has this one big flaw; It's unique. I'm not even GOING for his Dreadnoughts, nor was I expecting that he'd overreact by sending all sorts of crap to attack a small target like Jehuty. I thought they had this bigger fight going on.

-- I mean, to use your 'if he can do it than so can I' argument, if Jehuty can have real-space FTL, why can't I have a computer AI capable of running a ship?

So, because Jehuty has realspace FTL, Valinon can have "impeller wedges" all around his ship, even on the broadsides where I was told that they were not, his ships about completely controlled by AIs, care or even see that a single less than 20 meters long target is coming at him during a heated battle to send a relatively large group of ships to attack it and whatnot? This argument does not work.

And by the way, what I used never was a "If he can do it so I can" argument. It was more of the "If he's using whatever he wants of his background story, why can't I" kind. In Zone of the Enders, the FTL form is Realspace FTL. Don't go "OMG IT'S NOT REALISTIC!!!!" if what you're using isn't realistic, either. Don't whine on things you yourself are guilty of. Gives off a bad image and all.