NationStates Jolt Archive

http://www.weirdozone.com/projects/nationstates/trium_insig_round.gif

CHARTER OF THE TRIUMVIRATE OF YUT

ARTICLE ONE: STATEMENT OF PURPOSE

The Triumvirate of Yut, as established by its signatory nations, is to:
1. Provide for the common defense of all Yut members.
2. Provide for the common cause and welfare of all Yut members.
3. Provide a federal structure for peaceful relations between all Yut members.
4. Any other purposes determined in the future my common consensus that are needed.

We find Earth to be a cold place of suffering and hatred. By escaping to the stars, we shall found a new society where the interest of one?s fellow sentient can be placed above the interest of the individual. Through a vision of the future and a realistic assessment of the present, we shall achieve an internal peace the likes of which that have only been imagined in the past.

The Triumvirate of Yut shall assemble a fleet of colony vessels and colonize Titan, moon of Saturn. There it will establish its new society and its new home.

The Triumvirate of Yut shall expand to colonize the entire Saturn System and use its resources for the betterment of all members.

The Triumvirate of Yut announces its goals to combat genocide and oppression on Earth using diplomacy and military extraction operations if necessary. To this goal, the First Titan Expeditionary Force (1st TEF) of the Triumvirate of Yut Combined Services (TYCS) will be formed and sent into the Earth theatre, based out of the Earth Trojan Orbit space station Valhalla.

The Triumvirate of Yut announces its goal to build an artificial ring habitat around the Saturnian System to provide living space for its people into the known future. Also, this Ring shall be open for nations that meet the Triumvirate of Yut?s standards to colonize.

ARTICLE TWO: COMMON DEFENSE

All member states of the Triumvirate of Yut shall allocate a negotiated amount of its annual budget to the common defense of the Triumvirate of Yut. These forces will be under the command of the Triumvirate of Yut Combined Services (TYCS) and be used to maintain peace in the Triumvirate of Yut?s domain as well as execute its declared objectives abroad.

All member states will be allowed to maintain a standing self-controlled military force inside Saturnian System space, but these forces may not exceed either in number nor in funding the forces contributed to the TYCS.

All nations living in Triumvirate of Yut space will be allowed to maintain a standing self-defense force, but it may not equal more than ten percent in numbers nor funding as the TYCS.

ARTICLE THREE: COMMON CAUSE AND WELFARE

All signatory nations of the Triumvirate of Yut will have free trade in ideas and products in between them. Freedom of movement will not be restricted within the Triumvirate of Yut except in cases of extreme emergency, including but not limited to quarantine and martial law situations. Triumvirate of Yut members will not put tariffs on products from other members, and will give other members preferential trading status over non-members.

Any emergency in any member state shall be responded to by all other member states with aid.


ARTICLE FOUR: FEDERAL STRUCTURE

The Triumvirate of Yut Council will be made of the leaders of each member country, kept in constant contact via telecommunications assets. The Council will have a ?first amongst equals? structure, with debates and parliamentary procedures as follows:
1. One leader may speak at a time, with a ten-minute time limit per speaker.
2. Declarations of War require a two-thirds majority.
3. Changes to the Triumvirate of Yut Charter require a two-thirds majority.
4. Usage of Military Forces requires a simple majority.
5. Changes in Foreign Policy require a simple majority.
The ?first among equals? will be the founding members of the Triumvirate of Yut (Karmabaijan, Scolopendra, Suunto), who will hold veto power. Vetos can be overturned with a three-fourths majority.

The Triumvirate of Yut may only make laws pertinent to the Triumvirate?s international relations, internal relations between members, and its stated purposes. The internal sovereignty of each member nation is ensured.

ARTICLE FIVE: ADAPTABILITY

This document is intended to be changed to meet the changing realities in the future. As according to Article Four, the Charter of the Triumvirate of Yut may be amended with a two-thirds majority of member nations.

SIGNATORY NATIONS

Free Land of Karmabaijan (now Ordinance-Enabled Hegemony of)
Federation of Scolopendra (now Federated Segments of)
Rogue State of Suunto (now Corporate Protectorate of)
Principality of Berserker (now Jingoistic Hegemony of)
Free Land of Zero-One (now Queendom of)
Dominion of LaRhiannon [un-extant]
Eternal Noldorin Empire of Menelmacar
Incorporated States of Nexus Industries [un-extant]
Empire of Cetaganda (now Imperial Union of)
Empire of Khenala (now Imperial Commonwealth of)
Most Serene Republic of Maryu [un-extant]
Emerald Heights of The SLAGLands [un-extant]
Borderlands of Freod (now Mearclanda of)
Dominion of Angelus (now Amalgamated Minds of) [un-extant]
Empire of Eniqcir (now United Celdr Empire of)
Dominion of Dread Lady Nathicana
Territory Co-Prosperity Sphere
Shogunate of Reploid Productions (now Immortal Shogunate and Affiliated Territories of)
Empire of Sakkra (now Herpetelogical Empire of)
Republic of Sunset (now Libertarian Paradise of)
Confederacy of Ravenspire [un-extant]
Empire of Treznor
Most^Serene Union of Kaenei
Defensive Pacifist Nation of Sneaky Bastards
Free Waukeenar States of Imnsvale
Democratic Imperium of Mangala
Federated Mercurial Demesne of The Caloris Basin
The Nomadic Peoples of The Elsani City States
United Solaris Federation of Tiburon
Modified Freedom Forces of Euroslavia
Federated Imperium of Kajal

AMENDMENTS

AMENDMENT ONE: RIGHTS OF SENTIENCE

SECTION I: DEFINITION OF SENTIENCE
Sentience is defined as having all the capabilities of: Usage of language to communicate complex abstract ideas, the ability to come to conclusions given insufficient data (leaps of intuition), and the ability to form original ideas (creativity). Sentience is independent of the form it takes, be it the various forms of organic or electronic life.

SECTION II: RIGHTS OF SENTIENT BEINGS WITHIN THE TRIUMVIRATE OF YUT
1. All sentient beings are entitled to compensation for work. Slavery in all forms is hereby banned in the Triumvirate of Yut.
2. All sentient beings are entitled to fair and equal consideration by the governments and total societies of the Triumvirate of Yut, including all branches at all levels of government, federal and local.
All sentient beings are entitled to free peaceful movement and communication inside and between member states of the Triumvirate of Yut.

AMENDMENT TWO: LIMITATION OF AGGRESSION

1. The Triumvirate is not required to participate in any aggressive military action started unilaterally by any single member or group for member. This is to prevent the Triumvirate from being dragged into a war in the interest of a single nation.

2. Furthermore, any ongoing non-mutual defense military action can be immediately ceased if a majority of the Triumvirate votes to end it.

AMENDMENT THREE: EXPULSION CLAUSE

In the event where circumstances call for a reexamination of membership status of a signatory nation, an expulsion process has been formalized as follows:

1. A current member brings forth charges of violation of the Triumvirate of Yut Charter, and/or brings forth charges of other misconduct which brings that nation's actions into question. The accusing nation presents this information to the Triumvirate of Yut Council for review by all signatory nations.

2. The expulsion request will be brought up for a 2/3rds majority vote. Representatives of both the accusing nation and the accused nation will be present to answer any questions the Council may have.

3. If the expulsion passes a 2/3rds majority vote, final approval rests with the First Among Equals Council. A veto from any of the three members will result in dismissal of the expulsion request.

4. If the expulsion passes both 2/3rds majority vote and no veto is forthcoming from the First Among Equals Council, the accused nation will be expelled from the Triumvirate of Yut and the requirements and benefits of the charter as listed above.

RECAP

=============================
Status of Vote on The Vortex Corporation Inclusion

VOTES FOR
---------------
Angelus
Reploid Productions
Eniqcir
Sakkra


VOTES ABSTAINING
-----------------------
Khenala


VOTES AGAINST
-------------------

Number of votes needed to pass: 9
Number of votes remaining to pass: 5

=====================================

Potential Alliance / Whatever with Crimmond
This seems to be a very interesting alliance. I would sign, but you would have to add a section about nations based outside of the Sol system. I'm well outside, being 857ly from Earth.

I suppose I could build a colony in Saturn Space and stick a Strike Fleet there to boost your defense of the area...

Or I could just become allies and stick the Strike Fleet there without the bother of a colony...

Eh... *tells 4th Strike Fleet that they may be reassigned*

Whatever you decide. If you want info on the Fleet, just ask.

OOC:

Must nations be based out of the region of Titan? Because, for instance, Menelmacar isn't; their capital is on Earth. Is it on a case-by-case basis, or is there simply a requirement of an on-Titan colony?

The Federated Segments of Scolopendra would like it known that, if the rules of the multiverse suddenly fall over, twitch, and die and that somehow the Kali Corporation gets a sponsor, is passed, and makes it in front of the First Among of Equals, we will veto their application so fast that we'll go backwards in time.

http://www.weirdozone.0catch.com/projects/nationstates/scolopendra/jon_hertzfeldt.gifPseudoEmperor Jon Hertzfeldt
Chief of State
Federated Segments of Scolopendra

***

"Has anyone told you that you're more eloquent when you're angry, Jon?"

"Actually... um... no, Julie, no one has."

"Well, you are."

OOC:

Must nations be based out of the region of Titan? Because, for instance, Menelmacar isn't; their capital is on Earth. Is it on a case-by-case basis, or is there simply a requirement of an on-Titan colony?
Hmmm... I think you just answered your own question on a requirement.

THERE IS NOT ONE. IT IS VAGUE BECAUSE IT DOES NOT MATTER.

--Hearty Aerospace Pirate Cap'n Scolo

The Triumvirate of Yut First Among Equals Council is pleased to announce the acceptance of Ravenspire into the Triumvirate. We look foward to the exchange of culture and technology that will undoubtedloy take place in the near future.

http://okcac.freeyellow.com/sarge.gif
President-General Xeruyu VonKarma
Ordinance Enabled Karmic Hegemony of Karmabaijan
Triumvirate of Yut
Titan

Ravenspire's a member. Party at the Apartment of Überness at 1800 TST on Friday.

http://www.weirdozone.0catch.com/projects/nationstates/scolopendra/timofeyev_bondayehr.gifCadet Third Class Timofeyev Bondayehr
Scolopendran Military Services, Aerospace Directorate
Federated Segments of Scolopendra

(OOC: Okay, that's enough expansion for now. Unofficial moratorium.)

The Federation of Sentient Peoples votes for the Inclusion of the Vortex Corporation.

http://people.vanderbilt.edu/~darion.c.smith/currey.gif Johnathan Currey, Minister, International Relations Directorate
The Federation of Sentient Peoples (http://people.vanderbilt.edu/~darion.c.smith/)
Federation Roleplay Policy (http://www.nationstates.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=55186)

[OOC: Wondering how TST translates to GMT. And where the Apartment of Uberness is.]

ooc: SP: The Apartment is on IRC.

I am going to update the website as soon as I can get back online back at the house. Right now, the site has been updated and I can view it, but none of you can.

ic:

We congratulate Ravenspire and Sunset for their inclusion into the Triumvirate of Yut.

---
Automata Omicron Blu
Speaker of the Dominion

We'd like to thank the Triumvirate and the Council for their support. For the sake of convenience, we will appoint a liaison to be based out of the research/trade facility we've maintained on Titan. Free-trade and reciprocal information-sharing policies are in effect with regards to all Triumvirate signatories, although I believe most of them were already included in those policies.

Alaric Morgannan
Chief Diplomat

Congratulations to you Ravenspire, on your acceptance into the Triumvirate. We hope to hear great things of your peoples.


Emperor Gorrm
Kastaa Imperial Complex

The Empire extends its welcome and congratulations to Ravenspire for their acceptance into the Triumvirate.

http://members.aol.com/FumetsuGolf/andrew_ns.jpg
Andrew Seal
Prime Minister
Empire of Khenala

(Encrypted Data Feed)

The Republic has a proposal for a joint research venture they wish to bring before the council. In light of the 'Sketch' incident with the WorldDisc we propose a pooling of resources to develop ways to block FTL travel. The joint venture would focus on developing ways to block as many forms of FTL as possible, and we would suggest starting with our own methods.

This research will yield multiple benefits - elimination of FTL 'ram' attacks and tactical denial of mobility being chief amoung them. While it may be extremely expensive we believe such an effort to be worth it based on those two benefits alone. The fact that such research may actually strengthen our own FTL systems is just icing on the cake.

Since the TYCS uses most if not all of our FTL methods, we would recommend that such research be conducted under their control. This will help ensure the secrecy of such a project as well as providing a diverse pool of expertise to draw on.

President Eric Thorgardson, Republic of Sunset
Science Advisor Sister Maria, OotMH
Admiral Andrea Filbeck, Sunset Defense Force

(End Encrypted Data Feed)

We, of course, second this motion and offer it Our full support.

---
Automata X1
First-of-Thirteen

That makes sense to me. While we already have counters to some FTL systems (i.e. gravity wells to stop non-instantaneous hyperdrives), we have very few counters to instantaneous jump drives... it will require some work, but should be possible.

http://www.weirdozone.0catch.com/projects/nationstates/scolopendra/al_rijil.gifAdvisor Al Rijil
Science Section
Federated Segments of Scolopendra

"We'll offer full support to this effort. The strategic and tactical advantages to such a system would be enormous. Coupled with Yuri defense platforms and our standing fleets, it would provide a very effective area denial system."

"And it will give R&D something to do. They already did drive research, it makes sense to let R&D try to defeat their own creations."

Knives-

We concur.

We'd like to note that Ravenspire has developed a counter to space-folding travel, which may help against certain other methods of FTL movement; in brief, it is possible to 'lock' a region of space so that spacebending, dimensional phasing, and the like fail.

Unfortunately, the method does not discriminate between friend and foe, and it requires significant power output to maintain. In addition, we are not certain how it would interact with the gravity-well manipulation method, since gravity is in itself a sort of bending of space.

Alaric Morgannan
Chief Diplomat

The Khenalian Ministry of Science and Engineering will commit its resources to this project, I will personally oversee it for our part.

Telanis Prime
Science and Engineering Minister
Empire of Khenala

Well, time to re-allocate some of our R&D budget. We'll offer our full support to such a program.

And we don't have to tell them quite yet why a Telvirdis can't be blocked....

We will also join in this effort. The Chief Engineer has just returned from his fishing vacation and is eager to start on a new project. He will bring his hand-picked staff with him.

We would like to participate in this project, however we cannot spare the funding or research personel at this time. Once our two fleets, the Tengai and the Amatsu, are completed, then we can dedicate some of our thaumatological engineers to the project.

~Tiffany Celta
~Secretary of Defense
~Shogunate of Reploid Productions

The Federation will provide any personnel and resources that it can to this project. I will assist myself, if need be.

http://people.vanderbilt.edu/~darion.c.smith/cortana.gif Cortana, Advisor Extraordinaire to the Executive Council
The Federation of Sentient Peoples (http://people.vanderbilt.edu/~darion.c.smith/)
Federation Roleplay Policy (http://www.nationstates.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=55186)

It seems as though we are agreed. We will begin recruiting from among our own experts and dispatch them. I would suggest assigning a particular ship with each drive example as a research testbed. Our testbed will the Venture-Class 'Nathan Haas'. The Republic will also be setting aside funds for the project, though numbers are not needed. I'm sure, given the lofty goals of the project, that it will be fulled funded by all parties.

President Thorgardson

(Transmitted via ToY Comm System, Highest Encryption)

Repealment of the Friendship Treaty with Dragonisia

WHEREAS, the Empire of Draconic States (EODS) has shown themselves to be a corrupting influence in current Triumvirate members, with far-reaching intelligence assets directly attempting to direct policy within our member nations;

WHEREAS, the EODS has shown itself to be a destabilizing element in the multiverse proper;

WHEREAS, we have not been given true faith by the EODS in response to our own to them;

WHEREAS, it has been shown in multiple public EODS reports that their concerns of the "friendship" between us extend only to the economic and political benefits of such rather than any real desire to be friends;

LET IT BE RESOLVED THAT the Triumvirate of Yut will hereby dissolve said treaty with the cessation of all trade and cooperation with EODS assets. EODS will be listed as a neutral power, neither enemy nor "friend," and no member nation of the Triumvirate will henceforth be required to associate with it if they do not wish to do so.


This proposal has been suggested by several member nations. Because of the sensitive nature of the proposal we are suggesting a 'closest door' status for it's discussion, adoption, and voting. Thus the encrypted transmission instead of a public post. If it is accepted the full text will be sent to the affected party as a 'Of the Whole' transmission. If it is not accepted the proposal shall remain secret if that is agreed upon.

(End Encrypted Transmission)

The Emerald Heights of The SLAGLands votes "aye" on the issue "Repealment of the Friendship Treaty with Dragonisia." The words of this proposal very much sum up our reasons.

http://invisionfree.com:54/40/9/upload/p2814.jpg
Sakura
Acting Viceroy
Acting CEO, Ribbot Technologies
The Free Community of SLAGLand Titan

We very much agree with this proposal. We have stated in the past that We would support any total ban on the EODS, and We do so now.

---
Mainframe
The ProtoArchailect

<<Encrypted Transmission incoming>>
<<Transmission decrypted>>
<<Encrypted response uplinking>>
<<Uplink complete>>

We will abstain from voting on this proposal for now. If there is evidence to your claims, could you TG it to me? We will vote on this proposal after we review the information.

Advisor Bosska
Kastaa Imperial Complex
Hall of the Diplomatic Corps

<<Uplink closed>>

ALTIMIT Broadcaster
Encryption: Titan Encryption
Broadcast type: Diplomatic
To: All Trium Members
Return transmission band: Open
IDENT: Tsume Dragonis - Secretary of Foreign Affairs, RP

Our vote is enclosed with this broadcast.

<End Transmission>

Menelmacar votes aye.

~Siri

<Transmission Type: Titan YutLink, Encryption Level 5>
<Sender: Empire of Khenala>
<Destination: ToY Council>

Our vote is enclosed.

http://members.aol.com/FumetsuGolf/andrew_ns.jpg
Prime Minister Andrew Seal
Empire of Khenala

The Federation of Sentient Peoples agrees with all points of the proposed resolution, and votes in favor of it. Let them stand alone. They will not remember this day fondly in the future.

http://people.vanderbilt.edu/~darion.c.smith/currey.gif Johnathan Currey, Minister, International Relations Directorate
The Federation of Sentient Peoples (http://people.vanderbilt.edu/~darion.c.smith/)
Federation Roleplay Policy (http://www.nationstates.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=55186)

Vote sent.

Ravenspire votes aye.

Alaric Morgannan
Chief Diplomat

Cetaganda votes aye.

Theodor Alton
First Speaker, State Directorate

<Secure Transmission, Trium Members>

Let our vote stand as 'yes' on the Sunset proposal. As unfortunate as some may view it, as I mentioned some time ago, it was inevitable. And, I believe, it is in the best interests of the Triumvirate to withdraw from this agreement.

Perhaps it is time to review all such 'friendship' agreements, as there was a time when this alliance was handing them out left and right? This of course is not intended to point out any one or other, but simply to make an effort to ensure that no other such problem areas are developing. I think that given the Sketch incident, and now this with the EODS, that it would be in our best interests to take a careful look at just who is tying themselves to us, however loosely.

As we all know, clauses such as this are a token gesture at best - but gesture it is, and regardless of it being non-military in nature, perceptions are what matter often more than facts in the political arena. I, frankly, tire of having our alliance name dropped so casually by those seeking to use it in situations that do not merit it for their own personal gain, or where they lack the right to do so. This is an honorable, respected alliance and should be upheld as such. The temporary hold on new membership was a wise decision. And in the future, I hope that careful thought will be given by all as to where we lend our support.

--Nathicana D'Aquisto dal Lupo, Dread Lady of the Dominion

Eniqcir votes "aye", for just about every reason so far put forth by others.

OOC: I count 9 votes 'aye,' but I don't count very well.....

OOC: I've got 11 total Aye's, as some were sent directly to me. If it needs a 2/3rds we are 2 votes shy.

5. Changes in Foreign Policy require a simple majority.
The proposed action, namely the annulment of the friendship treaty with the Empire of Draconic States, passes. Even so, the Federated Segments of Scolopendra votes its approval of the repealment of this friendship treaty for the reasons expressed in the proposal.

http://www.weirdozone.0catch.com/projects/nationstates/scolopendra/jon_hertzfeldt.gifPseudoEmperor Jon Hertzfeldt
Scolopendran Delegate, Council of Yut
Triumvirate of Yut

I wish to bring a matter before my fellow Triumvirate members that has been weighing heavily on my mind for some time now.

The times we live in are chaotic at best, and often the lines between good and bad, right and wrong, justice and vengeance are understandably blurred. There have been many recent happenings that have given us all pause, some hitting through to the very heart of our nations causing grief and strife.

In this age of malcontent and ever-present war, I feel it is all the more imperative that we take the time to re-examine our goals, our ambitions, and the ideals under which the Triumvirate was founded. Have we strayed from the path laid out originally? Are we living up to the goals set forth in the charter? Do our nations properly represent the good name of the alliance, or do our actions cast a negative light on ourselves and our allies?

I hear disturbing whispers among the international community that the Triumvirate has become less than what it had aspired to. Actions taken by individual members have brought a scornful light on the group as a whole, and not simply among those who might be labled our enemies. In the political arena, facts seldom mean as much as public opinion, sad as that may be. We are in need, I think, of reaffirmation of our intent, our goals, and our commitment to this alliance, as individuals, and as a group.

This being said, I call on the leaders of this coalition to take a good hard look at us, one and all. And for the individual nations to ponder as well their aims, and the goals of the Triumvirate. A house divided cannot stand, they say - and I am beginning to see hints of divisiveness, if only in the paths we are choosing to take.

In hopes of a stronger, more unified alliance,

http://home.mchsi.com/~ketri/wsb/links/Nath4.jpg
--Nathicana D'Aquisto dal Lupo, Dread Lady of the Dominion

Dread Lady, we are in agreement. Although we have only recently been inducted into this ostentatious collection, we will begin investigations internally as to what the aim of our Titan colonists are, as well as here. This will take some time, to conduct the interviews, gel the findings and come to a conclusion. But it can and will be done. Should you require anything from us, feel free to call on our offices.

Advisor Bosska
Guuah Diplomatic Offices
Sakkra

Hmmm... self-reflection is important if we're to stay the course. We are currently working with Sakkra on an audit of our system. I am also directing the Foot-to-Ass Section to run an analysis on recent policies to see if they fall in with our announced goals.

http://www.weirdozone.0catch.com/projects/nationstates/scolopendra/jon_hertzfeldt.gifPseudoEmperor Jon Hertzfeldt
Chief of State
Federated Segments of Scolopendra

<<Encrypted laser-pulse A/V transmission>>
<<Receiver: Triumvirate of Yut: All nations>>
<<Transmission begins>>

Greetings to all from Advisor Bosska.

I am here to inform all signitory nations that we have activated our Internal Investigations. It is being spearheaded by Investigator Grerrakk. She has shown a 99.95% success rate at flushing out corrupt sections of government and corporate establishments. The .05% failure was from those deciding to .... ummm .... become one with the Void before the investigation was complete.

File photo of Investigator Grerrakk

http://home.earthlink.net/~peterpank/Internal.jpg

"She wishes to address you."

*A Sakkran female that dwarfs the Advisor comes on screen. The top of her head does not fit on the screen, nor does her shoulders. She opens her mouth, and a voice like gravel comes out*

"Greetings. I will begin here in the Empire. Should my investigations here lead me to other sources, it is expected I will follow up on those leads."

She hands the comm back to Bosska, and walks off screen. The Advisor shakes slightly, and continues. "I hope that other nations will be forgiving of her methods. While extremely effective, they can be quite un-nerving. I, myself, am going to gather records and transcripts for this investigation."

"Thank you for your time. Bosska, out!"

<<Transmission ends>>

OOC: Most likely to continue in a new thread.

Damn it! Why won't you guys tell me whether I've been accepted into the ToY or not?

-<Transmission Type: Diplomatic Communique>-
-<Destination: Tiburon>-

Due to your lack of a sponsor, and with that, no vote on acceptance, we can firmly say that the answer is "No".

http://members.aol.com/FumetsuGolf/andrew_ns.jpg
Andrew Seal
Prime Minister
Empire of Khenala

-<End Transmission>-

May I reapply with a sponsor?

At this time the Triumvirate is not looking to expand its membership. We thank you for your interest.

http://members.aol.com/FumetsuGolf/andrew_ns.jpg
Andrew Seal
Prime Minister
Empire of Khenala

Um... I welcome you for my interest, and I insult you for your lack of interest.

This being said, I call on the leaders of this coalition to take a good hard look at us, one and all. And for the individual nations to ponder as well their aims, and the goals of the Triumvirate. A house divided cannot stand, they say - and I am beginning to see hints of divisiveness, if only in the paths we are choosing to take.

I feel I must say that this brings up further and deeper matters. In our self-reflection, do we aim to answer the question "Who are we?", or do we wish to know, on the other hand, "What do we want?"

To put it simply, do we have ideals that we must alter our goals and paths to meet, or do we have goals that we may have to alter our current ideals to meet?

Neither is better or worse than the other in and of itself. If we can show that our ideals, morals, or principles are in error, then we must focus on the question of who we want to be, and alter our goals so as not to compromise a higher set of ideals. If, on the other hand, we can show that it is our desires that have brought about a compromise of principles, then we must focus on the question of what we want. Perhaps the latter path will do no more than direct us back to the first.

But before we can aim to change, we must know: What needs to be investigated and changed?

Um... I welcome you for my interest, and I insult you for your lack of interest.
http://www.weirdozone.0catch.com/projects/nationstates/rejected.gif
DENIED!

Do not bother to resubmit in ninety days.

http://www.weirdozone.0catch.com/projects/nationstates/scolopendra/laura_kelvan.gifCivil Servant Laura Kelvan
Paperpusher Queen
Federated Segments of Scolopendra

Should it become necessary, any inspectors or other such personel are welcome to look into the Shogunate and its records. We have nothing to hide, as our primary goal as a nation is the furtherment of peace and cooperation among people. (And the Queen's own internal investigations crew is very good and rooting out potential problems before they ever reach a position of real power within the government.)

http://rpstudios.ian-justman.com/junk/CGgoods/tsume1.JPG
~Tsume Dragonis
~Secretary of Foreign Affairs
~Immortal Shogunate of Reploid Productions

Cetaganda would fully cooperate with any inspectors from fellow Triumvirate members who wish to see anything in our nation. While our internal investigators are quite effective, an outside perspective could perhaps be helpful.

-Emperor Gregor Vetinari
-Lady Martial Signy Mallory, Military
-First Seeker Eloise Savanche, Special Circumstances
-Archmage Kyle sa'Diason, PIA
-First Justicar Lord Emmon Vorsythe, Justice

Do to recent actions by The Holy Roman Empire of Abu-Dhabi Khristatata, the Federation no longer feels it is able support the Friendship Treaty towards them.

Especially due to the tendency to throw around the name of the Triumvirate as a friend and ally, The Federation of Sentient Peoples recommends the cessation of the Friendship Treaty with The Holy Roman Empire of Abu-Dhabi Khristatata, and the suspension of all privileges that entails.

http://people.vanderbilt.edu/~darion.c.smith/currey.gif Johnathan Currey, Minister, International Relations Directorate
The Federation of Sentient Peoples (http://people.vanderbilt.edu/~darion.c.smith/)
Federation Roleplay Policy (http://www.nationstates.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=55186)

OOC: Damn you, SP!

IC:

Menelmacar hereby seconds the motion of the Federation of Sentient Peoples. The friendship treaty with ADK must end. As soon as possible. The Triumvirate of Yut cannot be seen as willing to associate with such a heinously rampant government.

http://www.weirdozone.0catch.com/projects/nationstates/sirithil/sirithilnosfeanor.gifLady Sirithil nos Fëanor
Elentári of the Eternal Noldorin Empire of Menelmacar
"If it is to be war between us, it shall be war to the knife and the knife to the hilt."
~Foreign Minister Duke Paolio, The Outlands
We Love the Iraqi Information Minister (http://www.welovetheiraqiinformationminister.com)
Clicky-clicky!

Khenala votes "YEA", to end the friendship treaty with ADK.

"What are these accusations being brought forth against the people of the Holy Roman Empire of Byzantium?"

We have done some research, and we vote 'Aye' as well.

At this time, the Territory Co-Prosperity Sphere is unaware of wrongdoings by Abu-Dhabi Khristatata that would warrant outright termination of treaty. Perhaps Minister Currey could elucidate.

We note that there is likely room to solve the situation using diplomatic and economic pressure and incentives.

[OOC: Except for the name. You rally deserve a good n00king for that, Mr Khrishtatatatatatatatatata.]

Surely the observant government of The Territory Co-Prosperity Sphere has not failed to notice the constant warfare in which ADK engages.

But not since the signing of the Friendship Treaty with the Triumvirate has the nation of ADK been attacked. Why? Because it is friends with us. So instead of having to defend itself, it is able to employ its military in wars of conquest.

Our Special Intelligence Service and Military Intelligence have picked up disturbing rumors about the size and greater intent of the Khristatatan Goverment. It would appear they desire to become a 'rogue space nation' and have expressed the 'intent to conquer the real world' (whatever they mean by that). These outrightly hostile actions, and continuous warfare do not live up to the ideals of the Yut Charter, or even the spirit of the Friendship Treaty.

http://people.vanderbilt.edu/~darion.c.smith/currey.gif Johnathan Currey, Minister, International Relations Directorate
The Federation of Sentient Peoples (http://people.vanderbilt.edu/~darion.c.smith/)
Federation Roleplay Policy (http://www.nationstates.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=55186)

'We consider ourselves a rogue space nation because we are not a member of any coalitions. We are not a member of ToY, Arda, the Dominion, NATO, APTO, SATO, The Commonwealth, the ChromeStar Alliance, the Galactic Alliance. Nothing. We have seperate alliances and treaties, but no orginizations. And that is why we are rogue. Yet we pose no threat to ToY, as a conflict with ToY would injure us greatly.'

We do not see how the failure of Abu-Dhabi Khrishtatata's enemies to note the difference between a friendship treaty and a mutual defense pact should be held against that nation.

Furthermore, we prefer hard data to rumour. We also reiterate the option of creating incentives and bringing pressure to bear.

Finally, we do ask for such hard data. Has this "rogue space nation" for example used weapons of mass destruction in unprovoked assaults on technologically inferior nations based on some hysterical racist prejudice on the part of its leadership, massacring thousands of naval personnel that were no threat whatsoever to ADK forces?

If the learned Minister could provide reference to such or equally reprehensible action it would be much appreciated.

The learned Minister is in no position to release information which may or may not compromise human intelligence resources inside ADK, nor does he see an action on the same level as a massacre or genocide to be the minimum cause for termination of the treaty.

ADK's warlike and agressive history shows no signs of changing, but we are willing to accept lesser censue than suspension of the treaty, if the Council of Leaders feels such an action more appropriate.

http://people.vanderbilt.edu/~darion.c.smith/currey.gif Johnathan Currey, Minister, International Relations Directorate
The Federation of Sentient Peoples (http://people.vanderbilt.edu/~darion.c.smith/)
Federation Roleplay Policy (http://www.nationstates.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=55186)

Yet we pose no threat to ToY, as a conflict with ToY would injure us greatly.'

This line in particular troubles us. You choose not to attack us not because of a particular friendly feeling towards the Triumvirate, but because it would do damage to yourself.

These, I believe, are not the words of a friend, and thus not deserving of a frienship treaty.

http://members.aol.com/FumetsuGolf/andrew_ns.jpg
Andrew Seal
Prime Minister
Empire of Khenala

IC:


'Today, the Triumvirate of Yut ended all relations between themselves, and the Holy Roman Empire of Byzantium(OOC: I wasn't sure about the name, sorry SP). All diplomats and any citizens from nations in the Triumvirate of Yut are to be sent back home and their possesions to be kept by the Holy Roman Empire of Byzantium. All trade between the Holy Roman Empire of Byzantium and the Triumvirate of Yut is to cease. Any vessel, terristial or space, passing through HREB waters or space, will have its cargo seized. The Sudanese(controlled by HREB)-Zarian(Menelmacari possesion) border will be closed and no one will be allowed in. No aircraft of any sort from the Triumvirate of Yut, or carrying someone who is a citizen of any member nation in the Triumvirate of Yut, shall not pass through our airspace on Earth or Mars.

'On the subject of Mars, as our colony is wedged between Sunset, Menelmacar, Bajon, Burnatonia, and a few other nations; No TofY craft of any sort will pass through our airspace or through the colonial boundries.

'If any Triumvirate citizens violate these rules, we will attempt a diplomatic settlement, and then consider it an act of war.

These are the words of one who is hostile to us, as far as I can see. In response to this, all freighters and merchant craft will have a compliment of 2 wings of long-range fighters, and a detachment of Troopers, escorting them.

{ Secure YutLink Transmission - Yut Member Only; m16 Security Protocols }

I would suggest that, given their use of weapons of mass destruction on both New Genoa and Omz, including attacks on foreign aid workers, and their threats to Triumvirate citizens, that any treaties with ADK be immediately dissolved. I furthermore suggest that the TYCS and other member military assets be placed on alert should they attempt the threaten our citizens abroad.

-Emperor Gregor Vetinari

Whoa whoa whoa... hold up here. I don't remember anything going through that we cut off relations with any Holy Roman Empire of anything. Maybe some of our member states have, but we haven't officially done so.

Still, such anger (and preemptiveness) isn't conducive to keeping the treaty, apparently...

Why is it that no one seems to take these things rationally?

http://www.weirdozone.0catch.com/projects/nationstates/scolopendra/jon_hertzfeldt.gifPseudoEmperor Jon Hertzfeldt
Chief of State
Federated Segments of Scolopendra

(OOC: Wait, wait, wait. You mean ADK and the Holy Roman Something aren't the same? Who, then, is the Holy Roman Whatever, and when did we start having relations with them to break off in the first place? And why is it posted by ADK?

Also, I don't know about anyone else, but I had thought this entire thread was made of private and encrypted messages between ToY members. I don't think ADK should be responding ICly to things we're posting to each other. Oh well.)

IC:

{Secure YutLink Transmission - ToY Members Only; m16 Security Protocols}

While normally I would concur on the need to be more rational, and would encourage additional time to be taken to investigate the apparent WMD use before we make a decision, the response of ADK seems to speak for itself. They say they are only friends because it would be harmful for them to attack us, not out of any actual friendship. I have no desire to have a friendship treaty with such a nation. It degrades our real friends and is all but asking for a repeat of the Sketch travestry.

-Emperor Gregor Vetinari

We do not condone the acts of war perpetuated by ADK, and support the dissolution of the friendship treaty. All Shogunate traffic will be redirected well away from ADK waters and space. Let it be known that in response to ADK's apparent hostile termination of the friendship treaty on their end, that we will respond in kind to any citizens or vessels passing through Shogunate waters or space.

In addition, the Tengai fleet has been put on alert and regular fighter patrols are guarding our borders and the Tengoku station.

http://rpstudios.ian-justman.com/junk/CGgoods/tsume4.JPG
~Tsume Dragonis
~Secretary of Foreign Affairs
~Immortal Shogunate of Reploid Productions

We were taking a vote on it. They had bombed the area known as Italy, thinking the Vatican was there. When informed that there is no vatican there, they decided to bomb it anyway. One reason why the vote was taken. Then this nation announces the above. I haven't heard that any friendship treaty was dissolved, but hostile actions are being taken.

Given recent events, Ravenspire votes aye.

Victor Delacroix

For those of you who are still doubtful
http://www.nationstates.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=70632&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=200

Systematic Fire-bombing of New Genoan Cities.

http://people.vanderbilt.edu/~darion.c.smith/currey.gif Johnathan Currey, Minister, International Relations Directorate
The Federation of Sentient Peoples (http://people.vanderbilt.edu/~darion.c.smith/)
Federation Roleplay Policy (http://www.nationstates.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=55186)

How very disappointing. This, my friends, is the very sort of thing I was referring to in my previous missive. Associating closely with nations who are ready and willing to perpetrate such heinous acts is a blot on the good name of the Triumvirate. We can ill-afford to be seen as tied in any way to those who show such blatant disregard for sentient life, and the history and culture of a nation.

I have voiced a concern before of us handing out so many of these supposed 'friendship treaties' and 'non-aggression pacts. It is my humble opinion that such have been handed out all too often, perhaps even, to avoid the matter of inclusion whilst soothing over ruffled feathers with these tokens. We have seen how such generousity has been repaid.

This being the case, and in the face of the evidence both presented and researched, that I regretfully cast a vote in favor of dissolving the treaty with ADK.

--Nathicana D'Aquisto dal Lupo, Dread Lady of the Dominion

A probability wave mysteriously loses this message.

Carry on, nothing to see here.

ooc:

As a note. If the Melkor War never happened (as per retcon), then the attacks on New Genoa may have never happened as well, since they were retalitory in nature.

However, since this alliance is just as much about OOC relations as IC ones, I would like to point out that ADK backstabbed fellow Coalition members in his attack. He built up a substantial amount of trust, and then used that to hide his attack.

As a note.

Holy crap... this so b0rK5 my timeline.

--Scolo

OOC: Don't bother with Post-Modern France. It is more of a joke than anything - Post-Modern France is a puppet of mine. If you don't believe me, for my awesome writing style change skills, ask a mod to IP check it.

~SP.

ooc:

Well, apparently only the New Genoa thing is going to be ignored now, along with the original ignoring of the "Morgoth Raises His Guns" thread.

So, carry on.

So what precisely did/n't happen? We need to update our history texts.

OOC: Don't bother with Post-Modern France. It is more of a joke than anything - Post-Modern France is a puppet of mine. If you don't believe me, for my awesome writing style change skills, ask a mod to IP check it.

~SP.

Half of the Trium members are mods :roll:

OOC: Don't bother with Post-Modern France. It is more of a joke than anything - Post-Modern France is a puppet of mine. If you don't believe me, for my awesome writing style change skills, ask a mod to IP check it.

~SP.

OOC: Ah, I see. Very well. For the purposes of RP, I will pretend it did not happen. :)

IC:

Khenalian National News

A probability wave hit the Empire today, and the Prime Minister mysteriously forgot what he was talking about.

Film at 11...

'All that I see that has been brought before us have been flase accusations! Why would we aid Melkor?' Adanedhel points to his Elven ears 'Look at these! Maybe their were a few misinterpretations, but besides that, you can prove nothing.'

http://www.gamespy.com/avatars/av/MN/mn229.gif
--Crown Prince Adanedhel, Regent

In other news, we have launched the Shogunate's First Space Defense Fleet (1SDF, nicknamed the Tengai fleet). While the crews of the fourteen ships of the fleet are well trained, they have little practical experiance in space operations. If it's alright, we'd like for the Tengai fleet to be placed temporarily under the command of the 3TEF while the crews get their zero-grav legs, so to speak.

~Tiffany Celta
~Secretary of Defense
~Immortal Shogunate of Reploid Productions

OOC: I apologise for intruding on this thread, but I felt everyone around Saturn should be aware of this. (http://www.nationstates.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=73496) Treznor is shipping goods to Scolopendra per our trade treaty, meaning that we'll be entering Trium-controlled territory. If you have any comments/reactions to it, you should probably post to that thread.

We would like to know if the Triumvirate has begun colonizing other solar systems, considering that you have discovered them.

We are an industrious and hard-working people, and we are willing to co-ordinate any colonization of safe planets suitible for mining. You would have to drag us along though, as we are not FTL capable.

Thank you for your time.

--The Mining Guild of ADK

We would like to know if the Triumvirate has begun colonizing other solar systems, considering that you have discovered them.

We are an industrious and hard-working people, and we are willing to co-ordinate any colonization of safe planets suitible for mining. You would have to drag us along though, as we are not FTL capable.

Thank you for your time.

--The Mining Guild of ADK

While I am sure this could be done, I don't believe it'd be economically feasable for you. You'd have to pay Trium freight lines both ways, and provide all the equipment yourself. Are you sure you'd want to do this? Cause if you are, I'm sure the FTL travel capable nations of the Trium would be more than willing to assist you.

http://people.vanderbilt.edu/~darion.c.smith/williams.jpg Arthur Williams, Minister, Transportation and Commerce Directorate
The Federation of Sentient Peoples (http://people.vanderbilt.edu/~darion.c.smith/)
Federation Roleplay Policy (http://www.nationstates.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=55186)

Perhaps it would be more economically feasable in the long run just to buy some FTL from you. We think that Gate technology is the cheapest and most effective, yet we'll consider other options if that is not feasable.

Couriers personally deliver the information found in the following thread to the government heads of all Triumvirate members.

http://www.nationstates.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=75585

A personal note is also included:

"Please, keep this information as private as possible. If you wish to send research teams or colonists, please do no inform them of their destination until they have begun their journey. If possible, confirm that the sentients involved are willing for this to be a one-way trip.

Regards,
Fidelo Villanova"

A new situation has arisen, and it has caused some confusion for our cabinet members. The Resi Corporation has been declared war on. This in and of itself we don't care about, since we have had no ties with them, diplomatically or otherwise.

However, a young nation we hold in good stead has attempted to bring about a diplomatic means to solving this issue, and was rewarded with threats of orbital bombardment and destruction from United Indiastan. The nation in question, Slagkattunger, apparently has relations with Resi.

(See here (http://www.nationstates.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=77805&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=60))

We are certain that, should we come to Slagkattunger's defense, since they have no protections from orbital bombardment, United Indiastan would bring its allies in as well. However, such bullying should not be allowed on vulnerable nations. So we seek counsel from other TofY members as to appropriate action to take in this case.

<sent via secure channel>



Once again I write my fellow Trium members with an issue of concern. Now, I'm aware that many of us are not directly invovled, and granted, information has been rather limited as to just who is exactly, but I'll dispense with all this and get to the point.

Recent actions taken by the XAOSIS! corporate heads, and under the direction of Sehndem are quite frankly, inexcuseable. I realize that relations have been 'strained' to say the least between Arda and the Triumvirate, and between certain nations in each particularly, for some time now. May I suggest that such past issues are irrelevant.

What has been done is clearly an act of terrorism, and corporate-driven warfare. A most cowardly attack, all in all. And we are seen as harboring those responsible.

Now, you all may be able to hide behind your vaunted ideals of 'right' and 'wrong' and who is 'good' or 'bad', but I myself have no such illusions here. Is the Triumvirate a haven for terrorists and those who would promote violence and war whilst hiding behind the skirts of others?

Again, as before, I direct your attention to the PR problem we've seen to have. It is actions such as this that drag us down, make us seem less in the eyes of the international arena. No, we don't have to please everyone all the time. But we do have a reputation of honor to uphold. I think it's high time we got to that.

Therefore, I suggest that concilliatory overtures be made to Melkor, in particular, the offering up of the guilty parties to him for their crimes in his country. As punishment for crimes perpetrated while in Triumvirate territory and protection, I also suggest a seizing of all XAOSIS! assets to be distributed among alliance members. These sorts of actions can not be seen as 'acceptable' by ourselves. Decisive action is called for.

Regardless of past dealings, you know this is the correct course of action. Had such heinous acts been carried out against an ally, you would have done so, rather than to allow these dogs to hide, cowering in the shadow of the Triumvirate name, and those of its members. Taking this course would be right and just. It would go quite a ways, I believe, in clearing away some of the negativity and murmurs of hipocrasy that I hear from our neighbors. And, it would help settle somewhat relations between Melkor and by default, Arda. You don't have to like it, but at least admit that a step down in agression levels would benefit all.

Take the time to consider this. Think seriously on the implications and possibilities offered. Should a diplomatic envoy be needed to make neccessary arrangements, I offer myself as a suitable emissary. I believe I have clear avenues of contact at my disposal, and am most anxious to put this mark on our name behind us.

With sincere concern,

--Nathicana D'Aquisto dal Lupo, Dread Lady of the Dominion

Menelmacar is currently undertaking a full investigation into the matter. If evidence comes to light that the bombings were ordered by Sehndem himself, we will consider either extradition or filing criminal charges under our own laws (and terrorism is a capital crime in Menelmacar). While it is clear that the orders came from somewhere within XAOSIS!, it is not yet clear who exactly gave them.

Further, XAOSIS! will not be broken up. The tens of thousands of XAOSIS! employees and millions of shareholders are not at fault for this, and we see no need to punish them for the crimes of one or more of their leaders.

If other nations wish to collaborate in the investigation, or have information or evidence they would like to put forward, they may feel free to do so, by contacting the Prefecture of Justice.

http://www.weirdozone.0catch.com/projects/nationstates/sirithil/sirithilnosfeanor.gifLady Sirithil nos Fëanor
Elentári of the Eternal Noldorin Empire of Menelmacar
"If it is to be war between us, it shall be war to the knife and the knife to the hilt."
~Foreign Minister Duke Paolio, The Outlands
We Love the Iraqi Information Minister (http://www.welovetheiraqiinformationminister.com)
Clicky-clicky!

I believe part of my missive was on my part, not clarified well enough. Allow me to explain.

In no way am I suggesting the break up of XAOSIS! assets within the Triumvirate, rather aquisition of said assets - of the guilty parties, if you must, and a redistribution of the profits from the companies involved. That being said, it behooves a leader to know what is going on in their organization. I find it very hard to believe, after such public comments as has been made, that Sehndem would not have known and given approval for the acts of terrorism carried out. Not only that, but common sense dictates that we rid ourselves of this snake. If he was capable of such an unexpected turn against Melkor himself, what would keep him from doing the same to those who have harbored him? It wouldn't be the first time a supposed 'friend' had attacked us. Might I risk offense, and draw attention again to the WorldDisc incident?

Of course we can't be expected to punish the workers. I suggest merely depriving the guilty from their cash and applying it here as reparations for their wrongdoings. And honestly, who better to profit from such a move? They have ransomed their rights to operate here with their actions. Not only would it be right, it would be lucrative and beneficial for the innocent workers involved as well, as only ownership of the properties and businesses would change. Win win situation.

This is not a matter of 'who' is involved, it is a matter of principles. If we are to be seen as a force for decency and justice, we cannot allow such things to go on unchecked within our boundaries and spheres of control. Were the XAOSIS! criminals not entrenched on Titan, this would probably be a moot point - we cannot police the galaxy, after all. But the case being as it is ... action is called for.

I applaud the dedication of Menelmacar in discovering the truth behind these attacks, and offer investigators of my own to work in coordination, if that would be acceptable. In the meantime, perhaps a message to the offended party would not be amiss? Once again, I offer my services.

--Nathicana

#Tag#

Very well then. I thank you for your clarification of your suggestion regarding the assets - a truly excellent idea, and one allowable in Menelmacari law. And you are certainly welcome to send investigators to aid us in our investigation.

I also appreciate your offering of services as intermediary. If you wish to do so, feel free to inform Morgoth that we are dedicated to getting to the bottom of this matter, and should Sehndem - or anyone else, for that matter - be found guilty or culpable, we will certainly consider extradition as a course of action.

http://www.weirdozone.0catch.com/projects/nationstates/sirithil/sirithilnosfeanor.gifLady Sirithil nos Fëanor
Elentári of the Eternal Noldorin Empire of Menelmacar
"If it is to be war between us, it shall be war to the knife and the knife to the hilt."
~Foreign Minister Duke Paolio, The Outlands
We Love the Iraqi Information Minister (http://www.welovetheiraqiinformationminister.com)
Clicky-clicky!

{Private diplomatic transmission}
x Renate von Saucken (Senior Advisor)
o Triumvirate of Yut

To begin, I believe that jurisdiction needs be established. Xaosis!, while a corporate entity, nears national status; the matter is delicate and will set a precedent. The core question is: "Who has power of arrest?".

No matter, the TCPS does not appreciate being dragged into this sort of incident. As long as the parties responsible pay dearly, we will consider the matter in a satisfactory state.

Large portions of the Nekoite population within the Shogunate are sympathetic to the Slagkettunger people, and I would have to agree that the threats by United Indiastan are uncalled for. The Shogunate also holds the Slagkettunger nation in high regard, and even if the Triumvirate doesn't take action, I would request at least an official statement condemning United Indiastan be made.

Concerning XAOSIS! and Melkor, I admit to being mildly underinformed. However, from what has been presented here, I would suggest at the very least freezing all XAOSIS! assets within Titan and the Triumvirate's allies, and approaching Arda abou turning over the guilty parties once Menelmacar's investigation is complete.

http://rpstudios.ian-justman.com/junk/CGgoods/tsume5.JPG
~Tsume Dragonis
~Secretary of Foreign Affairs
~Immortal Shogunate of Reploid Productions

The Third Expeditionary is on site in Earth Theatre; we have the force to back up any diplomatic statements we make even with current engagements in Sketch underway. Hertzfeldt's kinda busy at the moment, so I'm cleared to say that such threats are simply unacceptable.

http://www.weirdozone.0catch.com/projects/nationstates/scolopendra/julius_razak.gifAdvisor Julius M Razak
Foot-to-Ass (formerly Defense) Section
Federated Segments of Scolopendra

***

SIS is perfectly willing to join in the investigation. We've been turning up odd leads here in Scolopendra, and we think there might be a connection. Can't say any more at the moment, but we're extremely interested in how this turns out.

http://www.weirdozone.0catch.com/projects/nationstates/scolopendra/janus_garbo.gifAdvisor Janus Garbo
Intelligence Section
Federated Segments of Scolopendra

Working with our colleagues in SIS has allowed KSPA to turn up some interesting information as well. We have been involved with the Xaosis! investigation from the begenning, and will see that to a conclusion. These new discoveries still need some fleshing out before we can go public with them, but rest assured, we are working on it.

Command Agent Ropponmatsu
http://okcac.freeyellow.com/Ropponmatsu.jpg

An investigation would be in order. If they have commited crimes that are punishable in both Arda and our Nations, we should turn them over. But let us be careful that these crimes of which they are accussed by Arda are crimes - the ego of a dictator is easily bruised, but that does not mean we should appease him for the slightest insult.

As far as the statements against RESI - he is quite capable of defending himself. We do find the statements against him to be warmongering and we have our suspicions as to the real source of these allegations. Issuing threats against a supportive nation is similarly warmongering, and a statement should be issued opposing it.

Pres. Villanova

Large portions of the Nekoite population within the Shogunate are sympathetic to the Slagkettunger people, and I would have to agree that the threats by United Indiastan are uncalled for. The Shogunate also holds the Slagkettunger nation in high regard, and even if the Triumvirate doesn't take action, I would request at least an official statement condemning United Indiastan be made.

Agreed.

Should, ah, material backing for such a statement be necessary, we currently have over five fleets available in the Earth area.

Sakura Kitsuki

On the matter of XAOSIS, we were not informed, consulted or even sent a memo of their being sheltered. We have had no relation with them in the past, or in the present. However, this has been foisted on us as we are also being associated with the events as they stand being a member of this auspicious grouping. And so a statement of some manner must be made.

We should not harbor terrorists in any way, shape or form. We see them as we see those who use WMDs flagrantly; as cowards and fools. Let the Dread Lady and Lady Sirithil do as they see fit with them. Leave it to us, and they would be sent to the Black Swamp, naked and unarmed, for the wildlife to do as nature decides.

Reploid Reproductions, we thank you for your counsel on the United Indiastan matter. We will post our condemnation of their war-mongering ways against vulnerable nations.

In addition to the 3TEF and Ravenspire fleets, we have the 1SDF and the recently completed 2CGF presently holding position at the Tengoku station, if addition fleets are required.

http://rpstudios.ian-justman.com/junk/CGgoods/tsume9.JPG
~Tsume Dragonis
~Secretary of Foreign Affairs
~Immortal Shogunate of Reploid Productions

I believe there is more than enough power in Earth Orbit to eliminate any threat. The main Federation strength is available in orbit if needed.

http://people.vanderbilt.edu/~darion.c.smith/chief.gif John 117, Minister, Military Directorate
The Federation of Sentient Peoples (http://people.vanderbilt.edu/~darion.c.smith/)
Federation Roleplay Policy (http://www.nationstates.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=55186)

deleted

run TRACETRIANGLE
{
detect transmission(receiver one);

detect transmission(receiver two);

detect transmission(receiver three);

triangluate;

coordinates lock;

transmit(interested parties);
}

http://people.vanderbilt.edu/~darion.c.smith/cortana.gif Cortana, Advisor Extraordinaire to the Executive Council
The Federation of Sentient Peoples (http://people.vanderbilt.edu/~darion.c.smith/)
Federation Roleplay Policy (http://www.nationstates.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=55186)

We have begun construction of an Orbital Dock in Titan Orbit. This will be used to funnel goods in an easier and more efficient manner from orbit to the colony on Titan. It will also have military craft on board for added defense of Titan. Width will be approximately 1.8 kilometers and height will be 1.5 kilometers.

((Look for thr thread Titan Sakkra constructing Orbital Dock.))

Want any help with that? The CDC OrbitEngineers have been wanting a new project.

http://www.weirdozone.0catch.com/projects/nationstates/scolopendra/julius_razak.gifAdvisor Julius M Razak
Foot-to-Ass (formerly Defense) Section
Federated Segments of Scolopendra

Why certainly. Any help would be greatly appreciated, as well as giving you a goodly amount of space to store your own crafts.

(All posts concerning the detonation of the Melkorian facilities has been deleted. After talking this over with Melkor-mun I must admit that the post was bad roleplay. My apologies: I hate looking like a loose cannon, but everyone makes mistakes)

Yay, something else to go wrong.

--Scolo

As a long-time signatory nation of the Triumvirate of Yut, we in The Emerald Heights of The SLAGLands must keep a constant vigil over the good name of this wonderful organization. Keeping a significant distance from the military activity of the Triumvirate, we have been able to observe objectively the activities of our fellow Yut signatories, and as of late, I find myself quite displeased with one member in particular.

Recently, a massive military campaign, led by Iesus Christi of The Reich, began against The Resi Corporation for reasons that escape the casual observer. This war has resulted in thousands of casualties already, many of them from the cornered Resi Corp. While I wish there was a way to pin these actions solely on the shoulders of our foes, it seems that Lady Sirithil nos Fëanor of Menelmacar has taken it upon herself to enter this war on the side of the aggressor.

I cannot speak for Lady Sirithil, so I am unable to voice her reasons for entering this conflict; however, on the surface, they appear to be superficial. The Resi Corporation has long had a history of weapons producing and--some would argue--slave-trading, yet neither of these messy pasttimes seem to denote the large-scale action that is taking place in Resi as we speak. Furthermore, not only am I under the impression that Lady Sirithil has not exhausted all options short of aggression, I am fairly positive she has exhausted none of them, choosing instead to rush knives out to war and claim thousands of innocent lives in the process in a gigantic bombing campaign.

I am not requesting that Lady Sirithil and The Eternal Noldorin Empire of Menelmacar justify their actions; I am demanding it. Such readiness to use military force is highly unbecoming of a Triumvirate of Yut member, particularly one with as much sway and international reputation as Menelmacar. If Lady Sirithil cannot provide a worthwhile explanation for tarnishing the name of Yut thusly, I am afraid I will have no choice but to move for her expulsion from the Triumvirate of Yut.

I hoped it would not come to this; however, desperate times call for desperate measures.

http://invisionfree.com:54/40/9/upload/p2814.jpg
Sakura
Viceroy
The Free Community of SLAGLand Titan
Triumvirate of Yut Representative
The Emerald Heights of The SLAGLands

Hmm... I guess we may see a need an amendment for exclusion. Does anyone have an idea?

http://www.weirdozone.0catch.com/projects/nationstates/scolopendra/jon_hertzfeldt.gifPseudoEmperor Jon Hertzfeldt
Scolopendran Delegate, Council of Yut
Triumvirate of Yut

-<Transmission Type: Diplomatic Communique>-
-<Destination: Triumvirate Nations>-

Friends,

Before we jump to such hasty decisions, let us first allow Lady Sirithil to voice her defense. The honorable nation of Menelmacar has acted with wisdom in the past, and as allies, we should assume first that they have done so once more.

The Empire of Khenala has faith that this can be safely resolved without the need for such a rash action.

http://members.aol.com/FumetsuGolf/andrew_ns.jpg
Andrew Seal
Prime Minister
Empire of Khenala


-<End Communique>-

We agree. A fair hearing should be in order, where the accused will face the accuser. Debate and evidence should be presented by both sides.

Oh, agreed wholeheartedly on that part. However, this does show a major flaw in the charter that was overlooked and we should probably fix it just in case.

First order of business is certainly to hear Lady Sirithil out, though. Most definitely.

--Hertzfeldt

We are also eagerly awaiting Lady Sirithil's response, as while the Shogunate has a high level of respect for her and her people, we have also long held a polite wariness about the Menelmacari tendancy, bordering sometimes on outright eagerness, to use overwhelming force over relatively minor issues.

The Queen has expressed her concern about this and the apparent lack of an explusion clause in the charter, though her recommendation be that the situation is treated the same as membership applications are- a sponsor (or in this case, an accuser), and a 2/3s majority vote.

http://rpstudios.ian-justman.com/junk/CGgoods/tsume5.JPG
~Tsume Dragonis
~Secretary of Foreign Affairs
~Immortal Shogunate of Reploid Productions

The Queen has expressed her concern about this and the apparent lack of an explusion clause in the charter, though her recommendation be that the situation is treated the same as membership applications are- a sponsor (or in this case, an accuser), and a 2/3s majority vote.

http://rpstudios.ian-justman.com/junk/CGgoods/tsume5.JPG
~Tsume Dragonis
~Secretary of Foreign Affairs
~Immortal Shogunate of Reploid Productions

We second this proposal (worded as follows), and call for a vote.

Amendment Three
Expulsion Clause
"In the event where circumstances call for a reexamination of membership status of a signatory nation, an expulsion process has been formalized as follows:

1. A current member brings forth charges of violation of the Triumvirate of Yut Charter, and/or brings forth charges of other misconduct which brings that nation's actions into question. The accusing nation presents this information to the Triumvirate of Yut Council for review by all signatory nations.

2. The expulsion request will be brought up for a 2/3rds majority vote. Representatives of both the accusing nation and the accused nation will be present to answer any questions the Council may have.

3. If the expulsion passes a 2/3rds majority vote, final approval rests with the First Among Equals Council. A veto from any of the three members will result in dismissal of the expulsion request.

4. If the expulsion passes both 2/3rds majority vote and no veto is forthcoming from the First Among Equals Council, the accused nation will be expelled from the Triumvirate of Yut and the requirements and benefits of the charter as listed above.

=============================
Status of Vote on Amendment of Charter

VOTES FOR
---------------
Reploid Productions
Khenala
Cetaganda
The SLAGLands
Ravenspire
Dread Lady Nathicana
Sakkra
Sunset
Zero-One
Territory


VOTES ABSTAINING
-----------------------



VOTES AGAINST
-------------------

Number of votes needed to pass: 10
Number of votes remaining to pass: 0

The Amendment is Passed.

=====================================

((OOC: If there is any disagreement with the wording, please edit as necessary. :) ))

Cetaganda votes aye on the admendment to the charter. We are, of course, withholding comment on the Menelmacari situation until after Lady nos Feanor has explained her actions.

-Emperor Gregor Vetinari

You wish justification? Here you go.

Slavery:
Empaths Sold as Slaves (http://www.nationstates.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=73452&highlight=)
Specifically, the following:
Empath

Designation: Special
Environment: Urban
Size: 5-6.5 feet tall
Armaments: Mental Powers
Top Speed: 20 mph (on foot)
Specs: Empaths are gifted individuals who can read the ideas and emotions of others. They can also cause a person to have an idea, thus changing their thought processes. Empaths came to be due to radiation and chemical impurities found in the water in the slums. These chemicals, for better or for worse, act on the minds of people and (especially) unborn children. There is a flip side to the birth of Empaths, though. An increasingly high number of children are being born with severe mental retardation in the slums, with the cause being the same as the cause of the birth of Empaths.
Cost: $5,000,000 each
While Resi claims there are safeguards in place, there are no such safeguards mentioned in the storefront. The corporation continues to sell empaths at a $5M flat rate with no requirements to guarantee the individuals' rights and freedoms.

Further, Resicorp engaged in slavery on a much larger scale, selling entire peoples and nations to the highest bidder on the open market. Let us certainly not forget the innocent billions forced into servitude by Resi's actions.

Nation Auction (http://www.nationstates.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=53614&highlight=)

Further, Resicorp has engaged in genocide, and has developed nanotechnological weapons designed to slaughter entire populations in a truly hideous fashion. They call this weapon 'Rotan' (and in fact tried to sell it to both my nation and to Morgoth), and have deployed it in a test against the nation of Death of Life. Intelligence documents are attached:

Rotan Test Footage (http://www.nationstates.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=71702&highlight=)

Further, the Triumvirate of Yut not only has no provisions for expulsion, but according to the charter, it does not even have the authority to dictate the foreign policy of its members in the fashion the Slaglandic representative suggests. The following is the only section of the Charter that pertains to non-defensive military actions of individual members:

AMENDMENT TWO: LIMITATION OF AGGRESSION

1. The Triumvirate is not required to participate in any aggressive military action started unilaterally by any single member or group for member. This is to prevent the Triumvirate from being dragged into a war in the interest of a single nation.

2. Furthermore, any ongoing non-mutual defense military action can be immediately ceased if a majority of the Triumvirate votes to end it.
The Limitation of Aggression section, as is obvious, makes no attempt to prevent members from warring on non-members, provided they don't try to draw in the rest of the Triumvirate.

Further, the Triumvirate Charter in fact forbids the Triumvirate to dictate as Sakura would wish! I point you to the following clause, at the conclusion of Article Four:

The Triumvirate of Yut may only make laws pertinent to the Triumvirate’s international relations, internal relations between members, and its stated purposes. The internal sovereignty of each member nation is ensured.
The Charter does not permit the Triumvirate to make any amendment which would impinge on the sovereignty of any member. Is a war between Menelmacar and the Resi Corporation pertinent to Trium international relations? No. Menelmacar has made no attempt either to draw the Triumvirate into the conflict. Internal relations? Again, no. Resicorp is not a member. Stated purposes? Yes... but it supports them. Resi, as shown, is guilty of slavery and genocide, both of which are specifically stated in the Triumvirate Charter as things the Triumvirate combats. And further, beyond those three things, the Charter goes so far as to explicitly guarantee the member state's sovereignty. Menelmacari foreign policy now and forever stands outside the jurisdiction of the Triumvirate of Yut and its Charter.

http://www.weirdozone.0catch.com/projects/nationstates/sirithil/sirithilnosfeanor.gifLady Sirithil nos Fëanor
Elentári of the Eternal Noldorin Empire of Menelmacar
Chancellor of CENNA
"If it is to be war between us, it shall be war to the knife and the knife to the hilt."
~Foreign Minister Duke Paolio, The Outlands
We Love the Iraqi Information Minister (http://www.welovetheiraqiinformationminister.com)
Clicky-clicky!

The Charter does not permit the Triumvirate to make any amendment which would impinge on the sovereignty of any member.

No! It prohibits the Triumvirate from making certain laws under the treaty, not amendments to the treaty! The purpose of an amendment is to fix a flaw in the original document, and if that clause is seen as a flaw, the Triumvirate has every right- no, a responsibility! -to fix that flaw via amendment.

The Charter does not permit the Triumvirate to make any amendment which would impinge on the sovereignty of any member.

No! It prohibits the Triumvirate from making certain laws under the treaty, not amendments to the treaty! The purpose of an amendment is to fix a flaw in the original document, and if that clause is seen as a flaw, the Triumvirate has every right- no, a responsibility! -to fix that flaw via amendment.
Would you deny that the laws of the Triumvirate are created in the form of amendments to the charter? If they are not, then what are they? Simply put, the Triumvirate has no right to dictate members' foreign policy.

http://www.weirdozone.0catch.com/projects/nationstates/sirithil/sirithilnosfeanor.gifLady Sirithil nos Fëanor
Elentári of the Eternal Noldorin Empire of Menelmacar
Chancellor of CENNA
"If it is to be war between us, it shall be war to the knife and the knife to the hilt."
~Foreign Minister Duke Paolio, The Outlands
We Love the Iraqi Information Minister (http://www.welovetheiraqiinformationminister.com)
Clicky-clicky!

On behalf of The Emerald Heights of The SLAGLands, and by the authority vested in me by the Prime Minister of The SLAGLands, I vote "aye" on the issue at vote.


Lady Sirithil: My concern is not that your actions were in violation of the Yut Charter; I cannot deny that what you have chosen to do in The Resi Corporation is not, in fact, a breach of the charter. What concerns me is the way the Triumvirate of Yut is being perceived on the multiversal stage as of late. There are far better solutions to a problem than simply blowing it up; you, however, seem content to resort to the latter solution (http://www.nationstates.net/forum/viewtopic.php?p=1764452&highlight=#1764452). If Resi Corp was indeed a problem, why did you not choose to attempt to buy it out? Why did you not propose an international boycott? Why were guns necessary where words were not even attempted? You have entirely reversed diplomatic protocol, and as such, you are tarnishing the name of each and every peace-loving organization with which you associate yourself.

You speak of slavery, of denying the rights of individuals within a nation. What about the innocent victims of your attacks? What about those silent few within Resi Corp who had their lives ripped from them for no reason other than geographic location? I do not see you clamoring for their rights, Lady Sirithil. If you were truly championing the rights of sentient beings as you claim, you would have exhausted all other diplomatic avenues before resorting to war.

I cannot dictate your policy, Lady Sirithil, nor can the Triumvirate of Yut, and I understand that this action was meant as an independent action of Menelmacar and not as a reflection of Yut policy. However, what does it say to a neutral bystander who observes this conflict objectively and witnesses a Triumvirate of Yut member not only cooperating with members of The Reich, but doing so in a large-scale attack on a--relatively speaking--small nation? Can you understand now why I feel it is Yut's responsibility to step in?

Lady Sirithil, I strongly urge you to take a moment to get off your everlasting high horse and reevaluate your own policies and motives. Instead of spending so much time defending yourself and coming down on me for having the temerity to stand up to you, why not listen to what I have to say? You are not above the perusal and interpretation of the international community, and you most certainly are not above the perusal and interpretation of the Triumvirate of Yut. Do not think for a moment that I am at all intimidated by you, and do not think for a moment that I will stand down simply because you tell me to do so.

-Sakura

Would you deny that the laws of the Triumvirate are created in the form of amendments to the charter? If they are not, then what are they? Simply put, the Triumvirate has no right to dictate members' foreign policy.

I would, and if you insist I will tell you my opinion on that, but clarification of that issue is not immediately necessary. The clause prohibiting the creation of laws that interfere with members' foreign policies does not prohibit the creation of another law later that would allow such things- in short, it does not prohibit its own repeal, as you seem to think it does. Any law that did that should be blacked out anyway. Therefore, currnelty the Triumvirate has no authority to dictate a member's foreign policy, but, if it is the will of the member nations, we can make an amendment, that is, change the laws, to repeal the errored clause and give it that power. But, that is not the issue at hand. The issue is whether we should allow the expulsion of members for any reason, foreign policy aside. And, as far as I know, there is no prohibition of that to be repealed in the Charter.

As Sakura has said, we realize that you are not in violation of the Charter, but we still feel that you have ceased to provide a positive contribution to this organization. Perhaps it would do you good to set aside your usual arrogance for a moment and consider what effects your actions might have on others?

-Lord Inbhailígh Crzleídzí, Steward of Eniqcir

Ravenspire votes aye on the amendment to the charter. We feel it is a necessary addition, regardless of the outcome of the Menelmacar-Resi issue.

We would like to request some clarifications from Menelmacar on said issue. We feel that her emotional involvement may have been such that Sirithil did not completely convey her reasoning, and we offer an opportunity to do so.

You wish justification? Here you go.

Slavery:
Empaths Sold as Slaves (http://www.nationstates.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=73452&highlight=)
Specifically, the following:
Empath

Designation: Special
Environment: Urban
Size: 5-6.5 feet tall
Armaments: Mental Powers
Top Speed: 20 mph (on foot)
Specs: Empaths are gifted individuals who can read the ideas and emotions of others. They can also cause a person to have an idea, thus changing their thought processes. Empaths came to be due to radiation and chemical impurities found in the water in the slums. These chemicals, for better or for worse, act on the minds of people and (especially) unborn children. There is a flip side to the birth of Empaths, though. An increasingly high number of children are being born with severe mental retardation in the slums, with the cause being the same as the cause of the birth of Empaths.
Cost: $5,000,000 each
While Resi claims there are safeguards in place, there are no such safeguards mentioned in the storefront. The corporation continues to sell empaths at a $5M flat rate with no requirements to guarantee the individuals' rights and freedoms.

Is it Menelmacar's claim that all facets of a contract between two nations must be public, or does Menelmacar recognize private contracts as valid? If the latter, does it not follow that it does not matter whether the 'protection' requirements are stated 'up front' in the storefront, so long as they are included within the private contract and terms?

What is Menelmacar's stance on 'importing' labor? Does Menelmacar see a difference between hiring foreign laborers to work in one's country and establishing a plant in a foreign country, employing foreign workers? If so, what is the nature of the difference, in Menelmacar's opinion?

Further, Resicorp engaged in slavery on a much larger scale, selling entire peoples and nations to the highest bidder on the open market. Let us certainly not forget the innocent billions forced into servitude by Resi's actions.

Nation Auction (http://www.nationstates.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=53614&highlight=)

Is it Menelmacar's position that a nation may not sell land it possesses (cf. the Louisiana Purchase, etc.)? Does it matter whether the land is inhabited? What is Menelmacar's position on 'eminent domain'?

If Menelmacar feels such sales are slavery, what measures has Menelmacar taken to censure its CENNA ally the Eternal Dawn, which entered a bid on the very territory sale Menelmacar cites as an example of slavery?

Further, Resicorp has engaged in genocide, and has developed nanotechnological weapons designed to slaughter entire populations in a truly hideous fashion. They call this weapon 'Rotan' (and in fact tried to sell it to both my nation and to Morgoth), and have deployed it in a test against the nation of Death of Life. Intelligence documents are attached:

Rotan Test Footage (http://www.nationstates.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=71702&highlight=)

We have been aware of the existence of Rotan, and it has caused some concern.

When did Menelmacar become aware of Rotan? What steps, if any, did Menelmacar take at that time?

Further, the Triumvirate of Yut not only has no provisions for expulsion, but according to the charter, it does not even have the authority to dictate the foreign policy of its members in the fashion the Slaglandic representative suggests.

We agree that such provisions should be established.

We also agree that the Triumvirate has no authority to dictate matters of foreign policy. However, we feel that the Triumvirate possesses the right and the duty to see that the behavior of its members reflects its precepts. If, for instance, a member should commit genocide or oppression (which, according to article 1, the Triumvirate opposes), then we do not believe the Triumvirate would be forced to tolerate such behavior. We further believe that point 4 of article 1 grants the Triumvirate the ability to act on such breaches of conduct. To censure a vastly inappropriate policy is not the same as to dictate a policy.

We believe that a more thorough explanation will show that Menelmacar's actions were justified. However, we can see why there might exist some concern, and we feel it is better to forthrightly answer the questions raised than to, as some might see it, 'hide' behind legalistic and semantic interpretations of the Charter. We are confident that Menelmacar will be exonerated.

Victor Delacroix

To the honorable members of the Triumvirate of Yut, greeting.

As I noted before, some time ago you may remember, and more recently due to other incidents, our alliance has been in need of re-evaluation for some time now. If I may repeat some of my previous words to clarify somewhat?

It is imperative that we examine our goals, our ambitions, and the ideals under which the Triumvirate was originally founded. First and foremost in this matter is the question of whether our nations properly represent the good name of the alliance, and whether or not our actions cast a negative light on ourselves or our fellow Triumvirate members.

As noted before, and as has been pointed out by others here, actions taken by individual members have brought scorn on the group as a whole, and not, I'll note, simply among those nations who might be seen as 'enemies'. Once again, I call attention to the importance of public opinion in our dealings with others. We have a reputation of honor to uphold, and as members of this austere organization, it is our duty to do so.

Now, to the matter at hand.

I believe the point is being missed, and misinterpreted entirely. I see no one claiming they can dictate internal affairs of any nation here. What I do see is a question of public actions taken, and how those actions reflect on the reputation of the Triumvirate. The issue is not interference or repression of sovereign rights. The issue is Triumvirate censure of nations whose actions conflict with the intent and spirit of the alliance.

Siri, you seem to be saying that the Triumvirate has no right to revoke your membership. I beg to differ. We are all answerable for our actions to our fellow members. At any time, should they deem it neccessary, our fellow members have the right, nay, the responsibility to call for an accounting. Thus has the representative of the Emerald Heights done, no more, no less.

I admit, I have been concerned with your tendencies for some time, even before I was so graciously accepted as a member. You cannot deny that in spite of your claims to compassion and sentient rights, you display a rather mercurial tendency in upholding such. I find in fact, that your actions tend to follow the patterns of material gain and elven rights rather than a broad-sweeping crusade for goodness and freedom.

Your defense of your actions is well and good. Though I may disagree with it, it was and is your right to pursue such matters. No one is disputing that. What is in question is whether or not your preferred courses are in keeping with the ideals of this alliance, and whether or not the rest of the membership wishes to continue the current relationship with Menelmacar. As it is your right to choose your actions, it is equally your right to accept the consequences, though not to choose them.

I cannot deny that Resi has indeed done some rather unsavory things. I also recognize the soveriegn right of that nation - something you seem to wish to demand so loudly for yourself, yet deny others in kind. Where were the embargos? Where were the protests, the talks? And whatever were you thinking allying yourself with the Reich in this matter? Have you no care for how that looks? How it might reflect on the rest of us? Do you ever give that a thought when you take actions? We have a responsibility to each other, my Lady. We all do.
Alliances are too often taken for granted by far too many nations. They use them to throw their weight around, and name drop when they need, and blatantly go their own merry way, with no regard for how their actions might affect the alliance and its members.

Your haughty words do nothing to allay my fears in this matter. Your answer to the questions put to you was confrontational and arrogant, and missed the point entirely. I say again - the Triumvirate is not attempting to dictate anyone's foreign policy. It does however have a right to say who and who does not qualify as a member.

My Lady Sakura, your temper towards the end was also showing. While I realize that you are quite passionate in your position, words of arrogance and confrontation from yourself will only take away from an otherwise eloquent message.

I also would like to thank Victor Delacroix of Ravenspire for his questions and pleas for clarification. There are answers I would like to see there as well, including a more detailed account of what diplomatic actions Menelmacar took rather than an account of the wrongdoings of Resi Corporation. They are not my ally. Menelmacar, on the other hand, is.

The Dominion votes aye on the proposed amendment, and agrees that regardless of any outcome here, that it is neccessary to have included in the charter.

I await further clarification and answer.

--Nathicana D'Aquisto dal Lupo, Dread Lady of the Dominion

My Lady Sakura, your temper towards the end was also showing. While I realize that you are quite passionate in your position, words of arrogance and confrontation from yourself will only take away from an otherwise eloquent message.

For this act of indiscretion, I apologize to Dread Lady Nathicana d'Aquisto, to Lady Sirithil, and to all of the Triumvirate of Yut. I meant no disrespect; I merely let my emotions get the better of me.

These have been trying months indeed...

-Sakura

We will also vote 'Aye' on the charter amendment. We will, however, hold our collective tongue on the issue of Menelmacar's actions, and Lady Sakura's accusations (although that mat be too strong a word for the message we wish to convey) except for a couple of brief statements to be made later. Personally, as Emperor of all Sakkra. I feel that review of all members and their actions should be implemented annually, in order to alert nations that may be going astray.

Now, a brief statement or two about our opinion of the Resi situation...

We were neutral on the situation, until United Indiastan threatened a small nation who we have dealings with, and which we have holdings and interests in their lands. We asserted our support after seeking advice on possible actions. The nation mentioned above then proceeded to attempt to bully us with threats of WMD use on our lands. This is a nation Menelmacar has found herself temporarily aligned with. As of this date, we are still on alert status around the smaller nation. We predict nothing will result, though.

The Reich themself are no angels of goodness and wholesomeness. We would have attempted to persuade Resi Corporation to change their policies concerning empaths, and to undergo reforms before they become a pariah, which would bankrupt them. However, seeing the Reich join forces against Resi, we decided to keep our distance. We would not want to be associated with them in any form. Now, however, it appears that we are vicariously.

Ponder, and be alert.

---
We would vote Aye to the alteration of the Charter. It is important that we have a method set in place for this procedure.
----

The accusations brought forth are troubling for two reasons. The first, the potential impact on our collective honor, has been discussed and I have nothing to add at the current time. My point is on something related laterally to the accusations.

As a group who proclaim to champion the rights of sentients we have been amiss in our duties. We all agree to the rights of sentients layed down in the Charter, but yet outside our own borders we often do nothing to prevent their abuse.

If this is what we profess, then we should act on that profession. We know already of several nations that abuse the rights of sentients, but we do nothing. We do not state our opposition, we do not ensure that trade is not conducted through third parties, in fact we do little to discourage these nations. Why?

That is my question for now. I am putting together my thoughts on Menelmacar and I will present them later.

http://www.pacifier.com/~cziller/fidelo.jpg

"Oi." Hertzfeldt throws the reports against his desk, papers scattering slightly. "Why does it never stop, eh? What the hell can we do?"

Advisor Speaker-to-Animals stands silently at rest, hands folded behind his back, calmly watching his boss vent.

"I mean, Jeebus H Hyskos, Scolopendra has dumped everything into the Trium. We support the TYCS, the TYSS... what do we have of our own? The Scolopendran Defense Squadron and the Civilian Defense Corps. If this falls apart, we are so totally screwed."

Leaning forward, he pushes his hands through his blonde hair, looking haggardly at the dull metal finish of his desk. "And I don't have any idea what to do, Speaker. Bob would know, he always did. We can't say anything without offending someone; I don't want Menelmacar out but I also think that Viceroy Sakura has a good point... and if Siri really is a warmongering bitch, then she has no place here."

Leaning back, he groans. "But then there's the Dread Lady, with her little 'incident' a while back. I don't like it, Speaker. Our idealistic little alliance is surrounded by people whose ideals don't quite match up, and it's going to fall apart because of it."

The K'zin narrows his eyes, sets his jaw, turns, and walks out without a word, leaving Hertzfeldt to stare out the window at the Art Deco rooftops of Stonozka.

* - * - *

We have conducted extraction campaigns ever since Supreme Emperor Kommetrez reinstated the longstanding FSS policy "Operation Screw Ethnic Cleansing." Those extraction campaigns, violations of foreign sovereignty, continue to this day. We thus have no right to censure Menelmacar for acting.

I am willing to trust Lady Sirithil's motives. The vehemence of her defense indicates that. If her motives are pure and her actions are at fault, were does that put us?

I have dealt with Menelmacar from the first day of my service in the International Relations section. What I will say will be unpopular. It must be said. I have seen that Lady Sirithil listens to almost no one. Not the Empire of the Eternal Dawn, not SEATO, not CENNA.

She listens to us. We have changed her mind, a difficult task. We are slowly working to make her responses suit her motives. She trusts us in this way.

If we repay that trust with expulsion, what do we do? We fail. She will no longer listen to us. Our hopes to help her out of her excesses will fail. We must help our allies, giving up is failure.

This accusation has brought the problem to light. Now we can address it. I believe we can work through it without resorting to censure. I know we must work through it if we are to be true to our ideals.

We will never give up on an ally while we can help.

http://www.weirdozone.0catch.com/projects/nationstates/scolopendra/speaker-to-animals.gifAdvisor Speaker-to-Animals
International Relations Section
Federated Segments of Scolopendra

We are in agreement with Advisor Speaker-To-Animals. Our hatchlings sometimes get a bit feral, and get a 'bit' violent. They are not exiled or expelled, but made to see their actions and its causes. Perhaps this situation calls for like measures.

We consider ourselves allies of Lady Sirithil, and would hope they feel likewise. But sometimes the edict of "The enemy of my enemy is my friend" does not ring true. Perhaps if there were some way to show why this is?

While it may not yet be my place to butt in on Trium business, another angle came to mind when I was cross-referencing data on the entire situation and the people involved. I mean no offense to Viceroy Sakura, but perhaps we should also keep in mind events related to Mark Biddlebaum? From what information is available via news sources and the like, if the man was so warped as to do the things he's been proven guilty of, what else might there be that he has done to his creations that we don't yet know about?

That said, I do agree that Lady Sirithil has at times appeared to be a bit quick on the trigger button, though in the end it seems her actions are generally justified. While I personally disapprove of the use of overwhelming force to achieve one's goals, sometimes it is the easiest and most efficient means of accomplishing something. I do not think an particular attitude is suitable grounds for the removal of an entire nation from the Triumvirate- attitudes can change after all, or be guided over time. I also think that it would generally be a poor move to alienate a valuable and (mostly) respected ally over a single murky situation.

In any event, that would be what organics call 'my $0.02'. Tsume Dragonis has already sent the Shogunate's official statement on the matter.

http://rpstudios.ian-justman.com/junk/CGgoods/zeroel2.JPG
Zeroel Archangel

Is it Menelmacar's claim that all facets of a contract between two nations must be public, or does Menelmacar recognize private contracts as valid? If the latter, does it not follow that it does not matter whether the 'protection' requirements are stated 'up front' in the storefront, so long as they are included within the private contract and terms?
In this case, the contract is slavery. It constitutes the outright purchase of a sentient being, which by any definition is slavery. While private contracts are valid, in this case Menelmacar feels that even if such conditions exist, it is simply not enough to hide them in the fine print. We're not talking about interest payments here. We're talking about a person's rights! Assuming everything else is above board, why would Resi, in the process of putting their people in a position of possible danger in the name of profit, not be going above and beyond to make any potential clients aware of the requirements involved? At the very least, this is gross negligence. At the worst - and the more likely scenario, given what we know of this matter - it is slavery.

What is Menelmacar's stance on 'importing' labor? Does Menelmacar see a difference between hiring foreign laborers to work in one's country and establishing a plant in a foreign country, employing foreign workers? If so, what is the nature of the difference, in Menelmacar's opinion?
When I import labor, when I hire foreign workers, when I establish a plant elsewhere, I negotiate the deal with the workers themselves. I don't pay a flat rate per head to their home governments - I pay a salary to the laborers. If these empaths wish to work abroad, why the payment to Resi at all? Why would anyone emigrating on their own accord and of their own volition stipulate that the nation receiving them pay Resi five million? Please, Delacroix, think logically.

Is it Menelmacar's position that a nation may not sell land it possesses (cf. the Louisiana Purchase, etc.)? Does it matter whether the land is inhabited? What is Menelmacar's position on 'eminent domain'?
It is Menelmacar's position that certainly a nation may sell land it possesses - all governments own vast tracts of land outright. Inhabitation of that land does, however, make a difference. It is Menelmacar's position that, at the very least, a government should engage in a referendum to determine the wishes of the people on that land. To my knowledge - which is extensive - Resi never did this.

When did Menelmacar become aware of Rotan? What steps, if any, did Menelmacar take at that time?
We became aware several weeks ago when we heard rumblings about it through our intelligence networks. It came to pass that Resi, in fact, tried to sell us the weapon. We refused, and attempted diplomatic actions at that time aimed at persuading them to cease, desist, and destroy the research. They, too, refused.

I admit, I have been concerned with your tendencies for some time, even before I was so graciously accepted as a member. You cannot deny that in spite of your claims to compassion and sentient rights, you display a rather mercurial tendency in upholding such. I find in fact, that your actions tend to follow the patterns of material gain and elven rights rather than a broad-sweeping crusade for goodness and freedom.
Why the problem with material gain? If while fighting for liberty and justice for all you had the chance to fatten the coffers at the same time, would you turn it down? Would you pass it up? I would propose that this would simply be foolish. If anything, it is a moderating influence on Menelmacar's actions. Lady Sakura seems to believe Menelmacar would be content to leave Resicorp's lands as but a vast glass parking lot that glows in the dark. I would suggest that, aside from the disgusting nature of such an act, it would be highly unprofitable to do so.

Further, would you deny that there are simply too many causes for one realm to fight, Nathicana? Do you think any nation - or even any alliance - can possibly fight them all? Menelmacar has done more than have you, far more. And all nations are selective as they must be. Menelmacar can fight wars on five, six fronts if need be, and has in the past - but eight? Ten? A hundred fronts? Even Scolopendra will fight genocide far more readily than it will slavery. We must all choose our battles carefully, lest we not survive long enough to see them come to completion.

If Resi Corp was indeed a problem, why did you not choose to attempt to buy it out? Why did you not propose an international boycott? Why were guns necessary where words were not even attempted?
Why not a buyout? Why would I do that? Given the Reich was already on the move, I would be buying craters. Where is the sense in that? At any rate, Menelmacar does not conduct all its diplomatic proceedings in the open, my dear Sakura. Must Menelmacar run all its communications past you first, just so you don't get the wrong idea? I am deeply sorry to inform you of this, but you are not omniscient, and you do not see everything that takes place beneath the surface. You are not in any way qualified to make any claim of the sort that 'words were not attempted'.

However, what does it say to a neutral bystander who observes this conflict objectively and witnesses a Triumvirate of Yut member not only cooperating with members of The Reich, but doing so in a large-scale attack on a--relatively speaking--small nation? Can you understand now why I feel it is Yut's responsibility to step in?
It says that the Reich, for once, was on the right side. Not to get involved just because the Reich is involved is like blindly abandoning any cause that, say, the Ku Klux Klan supports - simply because they're the KKK. The Reich are reprehensible, yes. And like all such realms, they will meet their reckoning in time. Perhaps not from me, but from someone. But, amazing and novel and unbelievable as this might be, for once in their lives they were right. And frankly, I'm not so foolish as to turn down the help. I think, instead, you should be worried about what the neutral bystander thinks, who observes the conflict objectively - and sees one of the greatest alliances ever pillorying one of its greatest members for the unspeakable crime of moving militarily against a nation who slaughtered an innocent nation with a biological weapon designed for the utmost in cruelty, for the sole purpose of seeing what would happen. Genocide, Sakura, that's what Resi is all about. And I'm not going to stand for it.

Finally, I will touch somewhat on what Zeroel and Speaker have said. They spoke of trust. Any alliance is built on trust, especially one as strong and respected as the Triumvirate of Yut. For a long time, as Speaker mentioned, I have listened to my fellow members of this alliance because I trusted them. It was that trust that, more than anything else in Menelmacari eyes, has made the Triumvirate of Yut a Good Thing™.

It seems now, that some of that trust, in certain members, has been misplaced. Some of you need to seriously rethink your priorities. So Menelmacar sided with the Reich in an alliance of convenience to eliminate a genocidal slaver - and this is your big issue? Would you have preferred that we stood back, let them continue? Let them to continue to condemn psychics to servitude? Let them continue to stir up their nasty little bugs? Let them continue to slaughter billions in the name of /their/ bottom line? That any member of this alliance would turn on another member for an independent action that was careful, just, legal, ethical, and ineffectual to the alliance in any way, especially on behalf of a nation that has committed genocide, frankly disgusts me. Today some of that trust is gone. It will be a long time in the re-earning.

http://www.weirdozone.0catch.com/projects/nationstates/sirithil/sirithilnosfeanor.gifLady Sirithil nos Fëanor
Elentári of the Eternal Noldorin Empire of Menelmacar
Chancellor of CENNA
"If it is to be war between us, it shall be war to the knife and the knife to the hilt."
~Foreign Minister Duke Paolio, The Outlands
We Love the Iraqi Information Minister (http://www.welovetheiraqiinformationminister.com)
Clicky-clicky!

I personally am disgusted at these accusations leveled at the Lady Sirithil.

I fail to see how the Lady Sirithil has failed to live up to the ideals of the Triumvirate. This is not her first such intervention, by any means, and I doubt that it shall be the last.

And I hope that it is not.

Firstly, I'd like to remind the esteemed members that the Lady Sirithil was one of the first leaders to join the Trium, and her nation, one of the originals. She and her nation had intervened in such a manner, before her alliance with the Triumvirate, and as such, her acceptance into Triumvirate recognized her methods as valid. And now, you are accusing her of violating those ideals.

Her ideals are those of the Trium, or else she would not have been allowed to join. If the ideals of the Triumvirate have changed, so that her ideals and the ideals of the Triumvirate no longer agree, then perhaps the new goals and ideals of the Triumvirate should be stated. And then, perhaps we should all reassess our positions with relation to those changed goals and ideals.

If those goals have not changed, then why do we persecute the Lady Sirithil and her nation for acting as they always have? I say, that if this is the new face of the Triumvirate, I am no longer in a position where I can support it.

But I hope that these ideals have not changed without warning, as I have seen none. But I cannot stand by and watch a friend, a nation, a people, get railroaded because someone up and decided one day that they didn't like the way they operated.

And that is what I have seen here today.

http://people.vanderbilt.edu/~darion.c.smith/miniflag.jpg
D'ron Christopher Smith, Imperial President
The Federation of Sentient Peoples (http://people.vanderbilt.edu/~darion.c.smith/)
Federation Roleplay Policy (http://www.nationstates.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=55186)

(OOC: Still Slaggy...)

After perusing the evidence Lady Sirithil has presented, I believe I may now absolve her. While I disagree with her actions, she has nonetheless provided sufficient evidence to prove that she was justified in taking them. I hope that what has gone on over the course of these past few days will not taint the long, fruitful relationship between The SLAGLands and Menelmacar.

However, I have not yet said my piece--I must now address President D'ron of Sentient Peoples. Please spare me your disgust--if it is open debate and inquiry regarding an issue that disgusts you, then I fear that it is perhaps you who has no business within the Triumvirate of Yut. If we are not allowed to evaluate both ourselves and each other, then what are we as sentient creatures? Were it even a member of the First Among Equals taking such action, I would have made a point to call his actions into question. Seniority? Rank? What are these but mere formalities? In the end, we are ALL equals here, President D'ron, and I would expect any one of you to call out The SLAGLands if our actions are even the slightest bit displeasing to you.

Lady Sirithil has proven today that she has nothing to hide. My question to you, D'ron, is this: would you have her hide it if she did?

http://invisionfree.com:54/40/9/upload/p2814.jpg
Sakura
Acting Viceroy
The Free Community of SLAGLand Titan

((OOC EDIT: D'oh! Slag got his post in before mine!))

Before we all let our tempers get the better of us, might I suggest some cool-down time? It's situations like this that lend credence to Zeroel's pet theory that all organics are inherently nuts.

Lady Sirithil, Viceroy Sakura stated she would move for your removal in the event of your failing to provide hard evidence for your actions, which you have provided in ample abundance. I do think that even the most vague chance of anyone trying a new expulsion clause on you has been sufficiently blown to bits.

Everyone else leaping to Lady Sirithil's defense, please, calm down. We are not condemning Lady Sirithil or moving to have Menelmacar removed from the Triumvirate. Questions were simply raised (albeit in a manner that does tend to put most sentients on the defensive), and have been addressed.

From what I can see, we have reached the following conclusions:
1) There is a minor flaw in the Triumvirate Charter due to a lack of an expulsion clause. This is already under vote for amending. This is a seperate issue than questioning Lady Sirithil's actions.
2) That Lady Sirithil has supplied proof and support of her actions against Resi Corp. The fact that the Reich happened to also be against Resi will reflect on us in different ways to different nations. We have little control, if any, over such. Some will perceive the Reich as doing something good for once, others will only choose to see the fact that Menelmacari forces attacked the same target as Reich nations.

Please, I petition that everyone calm down and await the Viceroy's response, as I suspect that further debate on the subject among ourselves will bring forth no further insights and only lead to tempers flaring. Let us discuss and deal with this situation like the mature, reasonable sentients we are, hrm?

http://rpstudios.ian-justman.com/junk/CGgoods/tsume5.JPG
~Tsume Dragonis
~Secretary of Foreign Affairs
~Immortal Shogunate of Reploid Productions

You have asked a question, and you deserve and answer, Acting Viceroy Sakura.

And the answer? Yes. I would.

http://people.vanderbilt.edu/~darion.c.smith/miniflag.jpg
D'ron Christopher Smith, Imperial President
The Federation of Sentient Peoples (http://people.vanderbilt.edu/~darion.c.smith/)
Federation Roleplay Policy (http://www.nationstates.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=55186)

(OOC: I almost never vote as Shodey. So here I go.)

<Communications to the Council of Yut>
{
<< Hmmm... no comment on any of this talk of expulsion. Sakura's questions about Sirithil have been resolved; and I personally await Sentient People's defense.

<< As for the expulsion clause, it is necessary for simple protocol. If we do not need it now, we may need it later. The Queendom of Zero-One votes 1 concerning the measure.

<< If Lady Sirithil gets to vote in Quenya, I get to vote in binary.
}

http://www.womengamers.com/dw/sshock2_rev.jpg
S.H.O.D.A.N. v3.0 : MCP, Q01
Cetagandan Duchess of Marilac

I am glad to see that Lady Sirithil has justified her actions, as she was asked to. While I hope that in the future she, and others, will at least notify the rest of the Triumvirate before such actions are taken, we understand that it is not always possible.

I feel that it is important that we feel free to ask each other for justification of our actions, when such actions can impact all member nations. Openess with each other only help to encourage trust. Debate can also help introduce an outside viewpoint on a situation, which can often be important when emotions are running high.

I must admit concern at President D'ron's answer to Viceroy Sakura's question, however. I can see no way in which hiding requested information from our allies in a situation like this could possibly be helpful. Quite the opposite, it would encourage distrust. I, for one, would fully cooperate with any requests like the one Sakura posed to Lady Sirithil. I am disturbed to hear others would not do likewise.

-Emperor Gregor Vetinari

My apologies if my message arrived late- given the time delay, I suspect my message arrived after Viceroy Sakura's.

Also, these new issues being raised concerning trust and President D'ron's response to Sakura's question. I suspect further discussion on this matter will come up at some future date.

~Tsume Dragonis
~Secretary of Foreign Affairs
~Immortal Shogunate of Reploid Productions

We are pleased at the evidence Lady Sirithil has presented, and also pleased at the debate this has sparked. Such conversation and debate can only strengthen a group, and make it a place of healthy discussion and 'airing out' of issues. On the issue of Reich involvement in the actions against Resi Corporation, we can only say that we would act differently. But it is not our place to tell others how to act.

We are glad that, indeed, other means of suppressing a nations darker tendencies were tried. Force is a last resort. And, unfortunately, it seems to be becoming common that it is the only language some heed. But I digress...

The Federation of Sentient Peoples formally withdraws from the Triumvirate of Yut.

All of our forces on extended assignment with the Triumvirate and the Combined Services are hereby recalled.

The Federation hopes that relations can remain cordial between the Federation and the Triumvirate in future.

http://people.vanderbilt.edu/~darion.c.smith/bruce.jpeg Bruce Reynolds, Former Under-secretary for Triumvirate of Yut Relations, International Relations Directorate (Unemployed)
The Federation of Sentient Peoples (http://people.vanderbilt.edu/~darion.c.smith/)
Federation Roleplay Policy (http://www.nationstates.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=55186)

After perusing the evidence Lady Sirithil has presented, I believe I may now absolve her. While I disagree with her actions, she has nonetheless provided sufficient evidence to prove that she was justified in taking them.

Of course. Questions lead to answers, and we were certain hers would be sufficient. Even if she does appear unacquainted with "subcontracting" and "work-for-hire" provisions. 8)

I hope we may consider that mater resolved now?

Victor Delacroix

Err... yeah, I guess it's resolved. And wha, SP is out? Well, okay, charter edited. Absolutely no debate or anything... Jeebus H Hyskos it's been an odd couple 'o months.

http://www.weirdozone.0catch.com/projects/nationstates/scolopendra/jon_hertzfeldt.gifPseudoEmperor Jon Hertzfeldt
Chief of State
Federated Segments of Scolopendra

{Private Diplomatic Transmission}

x Renate von Saucken (Senior Advisor), Marie Liberté (Senior Advisor), Esperanza Cornelius (La Tigra Blanca)

o Triumvirate of Yut, Federation of Sentient Peoples



Aside from instituting our customary monitoring measures to an excessive level, the TCPS has remained uninvilved with the Resi conflict. This is not because the Resi leadership are not utter swine. Nor is it because Resi does not represent a planetary xox hazard. It is, frankly, out of sheer self-interest - generally this conflict involves our enemies conquering the enemies of all panhumanity.



It would be hypocritical of us to condemn the Eternal Noldorin Empire for actions taken against Resi and allies out of self-interest - like our lack of action it reflects self-interest and a deliberate, strategic choice. While hypocrisy is at times useful, we feel it is inappropriate at this time.



Still, a Triumvirate member nation can very much affect the Triumvirate as a whole by unilateral action. We have seen this recently.



Therefore, the TCPS APPROVES of the proposed expulsion clause - but we will not supports its use until all other avenues have been attempted, up to and possibly including military action.

Good. You all sorted this out without too much firebreathing. Everything is good, and, though it may be a bit overdue, Eniqcir votes aye on the amendment as well.

-Steward of Eniqcir, Inbhailígh Crzleídzí

Although I do wish that elf would stop being so arrogant. That attitude makes things so much more complicated....

"The Lady wishes a sincere public apology from the Steward of Eniqcir for his vitriolic and baseless comments towards her. She has received one from the SLAGlands and is satisfied, but she remains displeased with the Eniqciri. On a not entirely unrelated note, Menelmacar votes Tancavë - 'so be it' - on the expulsion clause."

~Lord Turelio nos Fingolfin
Prefect of State, Menelmacar

The Amendment is Passed.



(OOC: Just noticed that the charter's been updated. :oops: )

(OOC: If you'll note, already updated the Charter. :) Way to be on the ball, though, Khenala. NOW GET TO THE PARTY!!! http://www.nationstates.net/forum/viewtopic.php?p=1811873#1811873 )

We have been unfortunately out of communication for the past few days due to internal flux caused by Our continual drift towards Our manifest Destiny.

Even now, We are still finding that Our external communications are only clear for brief moments, though We are still capable of watching and observing that which goes on around Us.

Keyboard still screwed. Due to auto-login, however, I am still able to read what's going on. I am at work now, and am able to use the computers there.

Now, as to Menelmacar's recent envolvement with ResiCorp...

We have had a long-standing problem with Iesus Christi and the totality of the Reich's governing concepts. While We are at peace with the Reich, We would note that it is an uneasy one, kept stable by mutual non-envolvement.

Understanding this, We are confused by Menelmacar's apparent assistance of the Reich in its recent flood of attacks on ResiCorp. While We find many things concerning ResiCorp to be ultimately apalling, We are still unsure what is so horrible about RC to warrent Menelmacar's warpact with Iesus Christi...

Regardless of this, We do not believe that Menelmacar has violated any of the terms of the Charter, and though this action is not applaudable, it far from justifies any expulsion.

However, We do agree with Our Slaglandic counterpart in the statement that as of late, the reputation of the Triumvirate has been tarnished, and Menelmacar's recent actions have not helped matters. Neither has been Our envolvement with EOTED, and I believe that Sentient Peoples have graciously left to hopefully avoid casting a dour light upon the Triumvirate due to their recent actions.

Something must be done, and We readily agree. A central focusing point must be found. We must all find a commonality, a reason for Our Alliance.

Is it for the good of all? Is it for the research and development of greater technology? Is it a bastion of peace within a storm-tossed multiverse? Where are we going with this?

The only analogy that We can think of is that of the Caelistis Gens Empire. Yes, it was established by military might, but that might was only a byproduct of the main thrust of the CGE. The Caelistis held learning and knowledge above all else. To better oneself through the expansion of their personal understanding.

Technology, magic, philosophy, metatheory... It was all part of what made the Caelistis Gens great. Vast universities brought enlightenment to the masses. Huge libraries contained within their walls the totality of the known knowledge and history of an entire species.

Perhaps this is a pattern that the Triumvirate can follow? The establishment of universities and libraries, labratories and test fields. Perhaps, gifted as we are, with the most advanced technology in the known multiverse, the Triumvirate was destined to build upon it, and teach the right use of it.

We leave you now with this final thought.

The chaos of war breeds only hatred and destruction. The cradle of learning breeds evolution and enlightenment.

---
Automata X1
First-of-Thirteen

"The Lady wishes a sincere public apology from the Steward of Eniqcir for his vitriolic and baseless comments towards her. She has received one from the SLAGlands and is satisfied, but she remains displeased with the Eniqciri.
OOC: Eh? Last line of last post was private thoughts, if that's what you refer to.

...but we still feel that you have ceased to provide a positive contribution to this organization. Perhaps it would do you good to set aside your usual arrogance for a moment and consider what effects your actions might have on others?
OOC: No, was referring to this, actually.

~Siri

(OOC: Aha. In that case....)

"I would hardly call my comments vitriolic. In any case, they are my honest opinion, and I will not apologize for my state of mind. Perhaps It was too far to suggest that Menelmacar has lost its worth, but the truth as I see it is that Menelmacar's foriegn policy certainly does nothing good for the Triumvirate's image if it does not detract."

-Inbhailígh Crzleídzí, Steward of Eniqcir

bump so we don't lose it

we of our scientific nation wish to offer our technologies and ideas into the triumverate of yut . may i ask how do we join

we of our scientific nation wish to offer our technologies and ideas into the triumverate of yut . may i ask how do we join

Perhaps you should first learn about capitalization and spelling, after which we may indeed consider your offer.

http://invisionfree.com:54/40/9/upload/p1229.jpg
Wololo
Minister of Grammar
The Emerald Heights of The SLAGLands

OOC: Well finding this thread was easier then I thought. Anywho, is their any sort of business board that I may talk to establish commercial relations with ToY members? I sent Scolo and Karma telegrams, but no response due to them being busy or something.

As such I'm just posting it here, feel free to delete it if I violate anything, I did not see any links to anything other then sign-up boards and my threads have this nasty tendency of getting ignored. Hope I haven't stepped on anyone's toes.

Hey, no problem. I turned around and posted your message to the board, but no one seemed to notice... lessee... still have it.

We bid our greetings to the fair nation of Scolopendra.

Considering your relatively high position in the Triumvirate of Yut organization, we have come to ask you about the charter's foreign trade policy.

We wish to set up some sort of corporate exchange and a trade pact with the organization, a summary of local trade laws, if you have access, would be appreciated.

We thank you for your time.

I'm thinking that opening trade wouldn't be such a bad idea. Any objections?

We have none.

None.

Victor Delacroix

None at all.

Edwin Smytheson

Trade with NewArAreBee would be welcomed by the Imperial Commonwealth.

Prime Minister Andrew Seal
Imperial Commonwealth of Khenala

The SLAGLands, as always, welcomes free and open trade with all of our non-hostile neighbours in the world and beyond. If you wish to pursue a more fruitful relationship in trade, you are more than welcome to speak to the many privately owned corporations within The SLAGLands. I'm certain such companies as Granny Slag's Homestyle Confections (http://www.nationstates.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=43344&highlight=) and Ribbot Technologies (http://www.nationstates.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=39171&highlight=) would be more than happy to welcome any and all new customers.

http://invisionfree.com:54/40/9/upload/p3435.gif
Maria Denada Elsington
Minister of Commerce
The Emerald Heights of The SLAGLands

Opening new trade routes would be most welcome. Having recently met representatives from New ArAreBee, and having now established a small colony on Mars, thanks to our most gracious ally Sunset, I am of course increasingly interested in establishing further ties.

In short, you have my vote.

--Nathicana

Vote for Triumvirate Trade Relations with NewArAreBee

Votes For / Required: 8 / 8 : MOTION PASSES
Angelus
Ravenspire
Sunset
Khenala
The SLAGLands
Dread Lady Nathicana
Freod
Eniqcir

Votes Against: 0

Unable to make quorum:
Reploid Productions

edit: Added Freod and Eniqcir to the 'for' list.

* - * - *

On our own part, we are more than happy to open up the Federated Segments to trade with New ArAreBee.

http://www.weirdozone.0catch.com/projects/nationstates/scolopendra/ralph_spoilsport.gifAdvisor Ralph Spoilsport
International Trade Section
Federated Segments of Scolopendra

We support the opening of trade relations with NewArAreBee.

http://www.weirdozone.0catch.com/projects/nationstates/eadwacer/eadwacer.jpg
Eadwacer, Mearclanda Þeoden

Aye! Always looking for ways to boost our economy.

Well then. Going through the FAE Council, we don't have any problem with it. Motion passes.

I'll get Advisor Kommetrez to send something off immediately, and then our respective trade commissions can work things out. Also, we have reports of several potentially worthy nations wanting to join the Triumvirate. I will convene a board soon so we can get a good feel for them and what they're like.

Oh... and so everyone knows, I ran this by Speaker. He's sorry he couldn't vote personally, but no telepresence rigs have been set up in the southern Shogunate yet.

http://www.weirdozone.0catch.com/projects/nationstates/scolopendra/julius_razak.gifPseudoEmperor Julius M Razak
Scolopendran Delegate pro Tempore, Council of Yut
Triumvirate of Yut

Good Afternoon,

I have been in correspondance with Siri and she directed me to you, to find out the protocol about joining the Triumverate of Yut. I am a member of the WBO and SATO. Former member of WMNK and have been role playing in NS since May 2003, although i havent come under any major international incidents. I prefer to keep a low profile where i keep myself out of trouble, and to be honest, out of the lime light of huge world wars.

I am very reliable and loyal to anything i commit myself to. I have been intrigued by the Triumvirates activities, and was looking to expand my role playing areas, this is primarily due to a lot more time on my hands since the University Year is now complete.

Please Consider my application with seriousness, because i am quite serious about my membership if it is to be granted.

I have also sent this telegram to Berserker and Karmabaijan.

Kind Regards,
Holy Empress Evendim of Sagesquagmire
Priestess of the Temple Lana
Mistress of the Empire
Kentosani.
We should assemble a board so we can get to know this one better (OOC: Basically RP the process so we can see how the player RPs and get a better understanding). Do we have anyone willing to officially sponsor this one and perform the requisite history checks?

http://www.weirdozone.0catch.com/projects/nationstates/scolopendra/julius_razak.gifPseudoEmperor Julius M Razak
Scolopendran Delegate pro Tempore, Council of Yut
Triumvirate of Yut

We should assemble a board so we can get to know this one better (OOC: Basically RP the process so we can see how the player RPs and get a better understanding). Do we have anyone willing to officially sponsor this one and perform the requisite history checks?

http://www.weirdozone.0catch.com/projects/nationstates/scolopendra/julius_razak.gifPseudoEmperor Julius M Razak
Scolopendran Delegate pro Tempore, Council of Yut
Triumvirate of Yut

I volunteer to sponsor this nation, and will gather intelligence on them forthwith.

http://members.aol.com/FumetsuGolf/andrew_ns.jpg
Prime Minister Andrew Seal
Imperial Commonwealth of Khenala

Treznor stands outside the command centre of the airlift operations, essentially a huge circus tent bustling with activity. He's flanked by two bodyguards dressed in formal Imperial black-and-silver, odd-looking hand pistols belted at the waist and fully visible. At Treznor's feet lies a large ice chest opened to reveal its contents.

"You want one?" Treznor asks one of the Scolopendran guards who were inspecting the chest.

The guard favours him with a slight frown. "No, Sir. I'm on duty."

Treznor shrugs and waits patiently. When he receives permission to enter the tent, he gestures for his people to wait outside before he picks up the chest easily and carries it to a small portion of the tent blocked off from the rest; not exactly soundproof, but private enough for his purposes.

Speaker-to-Animals faces Trezor with ears cocked neutrally. "What do you need?"

Treznor opens the ice chest and cracks open two bottles of beer. He places a long, curly straw in one of them and offers it to the K'zin. "I'll just come straight to it, shall I? I'm contemplating making my application to the Triumvirate. I thought I'd pick your brains about it, especially in light of the recent...unpleasantness here. Given you're the most straight-talking representative of the Triumvirate I can think of, I figure you're the best person to ask."

Speaker-to-Animals nods at first, but grimaces slightly as he accepts the beer. However, all he does is hold it.

"As I indicated to D.O. Al-Sahhah some time ago, I'm interested in establishing a presence in space. I've now done that in a large part thanks to Scolopendra, and I've managed to build a small military fleet to protect my interests. Now I'm looking at colonisation as well, to bleed off some of the population pressures building in my nation. I can do that with the resources I have at present; I don't need the Triumvirate to help me. But the Triumvirate is the authority in the solar system, and I'd like to be a part of that. I'm making my application so I can add my voice to yours, nothing more."

Speaker-to-Animals nods again. "Where do you plan to colonize?"

Treznor sips from his bottle and shakes his head. "I don't know yet. We're still working on interstellar travel. I gather the solar system is fairly crowded at this point, although I'm looking at establishing some mining and production out in the asteroid belts."

Speaker-to-Animals nods. "I am personally... less than happy with the events in Iraqstan. I am working very closely with the refugees, and they have stories to tell. These stories are far too familiar to me."

Treznor nods unhappily. "Lifting them out is the best thing that can happen for them. I've offered my support, but Reploid Productions hasn't said anything to me. Given the circumstances, I'm not going to push."

"As commander of the relief campaign, I give you whatever permission you need to help. Queen Firefury did send out a general call."

"Yes, I've been watching your operation with interest. I'm impressed. I'm familiar with the kind of coordination necessary for the effort, and I can't say I've ever seen it done better. What do you need from me?"

Speaker-to-Animals gives a soft growl that Treznor translates as a pause for thought before he speaks. "Strategic transportation of food is covered. We would like additional naval extraction support as well as tactical supply movement. Cargo trucks, short-hop cargo planes."

"We have largely military resources in the area, and our First Fleet is still on its way. They should arrive in about a week. In the meanwhile we've got a few hundred military cargo planes that could be tasked for support. I can get a thousand more in the area in two days. Where to land them is a problem, though. The nearest major airport I'm familiar with is Sirilithia, and the bulk of the NDA forces are currently sitting there keeping an eye on things."

Speaker-to-Animals shakes his furry head. "We have the aerospace extraction from Um Lizaa under control. You will be needed to ferry supplies from the staging areas in the Shogunate to the relief area."

Treznor looks slightly relieved. "I can use the cargo planes to bring in a few thousand cargo trucks. We just finished a massive upgrade on our vehicles, so there are no fueling considerations for them. Will you need the trucks for that purpose, as well? That'll make life easier for me."

"Yes. We want to utilize overland routes as well."

"Not a problem. I'll have them start scrambling now. Will you inform the Shogunate of our arrival? I don't think they'll appreciate several thousand Treznor aircraft violating their airspace, and I'm not going to trust the security of the cargo planes to luck."

"Of course. That is the point behind centralized command."

Treznor nods firmly. "All right. Now back to my original point. Off the record, what is your opinion of the Empire of Treznor applying to the Triumvirate?"

Speaker-to-Animals' ears twitch briefly, then freeze. "It depends. How much did you know of the Um Lizaan situation?"

Treznor frowns and takes another long pull at his beer. "I know about Carlos' stockpile. I also know it's a precedent established by his father, and probably by his father. After that I kept my nose out of it. Up until recently, Carlos had never demonstrated any serious imbalance, and I was inclined to trust him as a friend and ally. Frankly, the whole situation sickens me, and I don't intend to rest until I can find a way to resolve it."

Speaker-to-Animals cants his head and looks at Treznor oddly, seeming to think for a moment. "I understand the trust, and its abuse. Certainly your intelligence services must have had some information. Two hundred million oppressed must leave some paperwork."

Treznor sighs. "Yes, I had some wind of what was going on. My operatives in Iraqstan are extremely limited, but they got some rumours and reports back to us. The official word was that the people being detained were criminals and traitors, insurrectionists attempting to foment a rebellion. Unofficially, my analysts suspected there was some racial genocide at work, but they all agreed that the evidence was too flimsy to act on."

"You are honest. That is respectable."

Treznor gestures broadly. "You see, my hands were tied. Officially under treaty, I have to leave Carlos' management of his nation and internal affairs alone. Unofficially, I suspected he was up to something that would bring universal condemnation down on him, and us by association. I needed more before I could confront him with it."

Speaker-to-Animals nods sagely. "A conflict of ideals, after a fashion."

"So now I'm still caught between a rock and a hard place. Carlos is already imposing punitive measures against allies for their role in violating his national sovereignity with this deal, measures that are a glaring breach of treaty. He's clearly not pleased with what we've done to him, and frankly I can't say I'd feel any different in his shoes. I don't agree with his methods, but I can understand his reasons.

"My sense of loyalty makes me hesitate on cutting ties with him. Carlos has been a good man; he only ever seemed irrational when it came to religion. It seems my choices are to support him in his crimes against humanity or turn my back on the years of support and loyalty we've had for each other. I'm still looking for a third path."

Speaker-to-Animals sets his beer down untouched and leans forward in earnest, ears cocked forward in a gesture of attention. "Then you have a decision. You have two sets of limitations which are conflicting; attempting to follow both is pointless and destructive. You must choose which is more important: your displeasure with his actions, or your understanding of them. Adapt and conquer... it is the only choice."

Treznor shakes his head firmly. "There has to be a happy medium, or at least an unpleasant compromise. I managed to slam a deal through to Firefury and the others; I ought to be able to do the same with Carlos. Diplomacy is the key here, and one of the hard parts of diplomacy is knowing when to wait and when to act. For the moment I'm waiting, in spite of the pressure for me to act."

Speaker-to-Animals nods. "Unfortunately... sometimes there can be no compromise. There are always options, but sometimes one must take a hard line for what the one believes in. I know you are not naive enough to want everyone to be happy, but if you wait to find the best solution, the window may be closed. It has been said that a good plan now is better than a better plan tomorrow."

"In this case I believe that immediate action, other than what has already been taken, will achieve little beyond cutting ties," Treznor replies. "Isolating Iraqstan will only increase Carlos' paranoia and make it more likely that he'll take it out on his citizens. Barring outright removing him from his seat, which I am sworn to protect him from, my only option is to force him into that hole. The damage is already done. I'm interested in minimising future damage."

Speaker-to-Animals nods. "You know far more about it than I do. I trust that you are doing what is appropriate. If this is so... then do not be concerned with it."

"I presume this relates directly to your opinion of my application to YuT, though."

Speaker-to-Animals gives an almost human shrug. "I like to think of it as an organization of ideals. I wish to see whether you can live up to them."

Treznor frowns and finishes his beer. "That depends. What ideals would you like me to live up to? As a whole, one of the ideals I aspire to is peaceful coexistence, regardless of any differences. Just because I don't like Carlos' management of Um Lizaa doesn't mean I'll sanction anyone going in to remove him from rule."

"Hrrrrrrm. Even we have not removed oppressors from power, merely tried to save those who were being oppressed. You seem to be trying to do the same now... is that accurate?"

"Hmm...I wouldn't say I'm trying to save anyone from being oppressed. I have, perhaps an erronneous belief, that any government incapable of ruling properly will be removed from power one way or another. Abuse your citizens long enough and they'll take you out themselves. I feel it's an essential test of any governing body, and I don't care to interfere in it."

Speaker-to-Animals nods. "The fact that you are willing to assist the Um Lizaans escape their genocide, at least, is a mark in your favor."

Treznor bows his head in respect. "Thank you, Speaker."

Speaker-to-Animals gives another odd shrug. "It is truth. I do not envy you your position."

Treznor grumbles slightly. "Me neither." After a moment, he grins slightly. "But I confess at least one ulterior motive for sounding out the Triumvirate. I'm still trying to master your language, but I don't have anyone to practice with."

Speaker-to-Animals chuckles softly, breath huffing from his nostrils. "I could save everyone some trouble in that regard. Advisor Kommetrez could rotate out Officer Al-Sahhah with a K'zin D.O..."

"If you wish. I was also hoping that, once this crisis has passed and we've got things stabilised, you might see fit to a state visit to Treznor. We still have a hunting reserve of dragons, and I've been itching to go hunting for a while."

Speaker-to-Animals nods politely. "That could be interesting. For now, I have a tent city to build."

Treznor stands and collects the beer bottles along with the ice chest. "Naturally. I'll get those trucks and planes on the way. They should be on their way to the Shogunate in two days, and arrive in three. Make sure Firefury is aware they'll have fighter escorts the whole way; whether hers or mine is up to her."

Speaker-to-Animals shrugs. "I will contact the Sky Marshal and provide aerospace fighter escorts if you wish."

Treznor smiles. "I've got the resources to protect them, I just don't want the Shogunate getting nervous about having foreign fighters overflying her airspace. Giving advance notice is usually polite."

Speaker-to-Animals nods, and Treznor steps outside the tent to make his way back to his camp.

We should assemble a board so we can get to know this one better (OOC: Basically RP the process so we can see how the player RPs and get a better understanding). Do we have anyone willing to officially sponsor this one and perform the requisite history checks?

http://www.weirdozone.0catch.com/projects/nationstates/scolopendra/julius_razak.gifPseudoEmperor Julius M Razak
Scolopendran Delegate pro Tempore, Council of Yut
Triumvirate of Yut

I volunteer to sponsor this nation, and will gather intelligence on them forthwith.

http://members.aol.com/FumetsuGolf/andrew_ns.jpg
Prime Minister Andrew Seal
Imperial Commonwealth of KhenalaOOC: Already tried the other week, but forum wipes took out alot. Altough, I'm too busy to devote enough time to be accurate. Go for it. I'll send off a link to him/her about this.

The Emerald Heights of The SLAGLands enjoyed fruitful relations with the Holy Magic Wheel Empire of Sagesquagmire. We look forward to hearing the result of the sponsorship of our friends in Khenala, and we, of course, voice our support for, if nothing else, a fruitful friendship with Sagesquagmire.

http://invisionfree.com:54/40/9/upload/p1166.jpg
Bodyguard Barry
Acting Prime Minister
The Emerald Heights of The SLAGLands

(OOC: For those who weren't on IRC when I explained this, Sagesquagmire is a former WMNK Coalition member. My memory's hazy, but I recall fairly good things.)

-<Communique Type: TitanYutLink>-
-<Subject: Sponsorship of Sagesquagmire for Triumvirate Membership>-

Friends,

After an exhaustive search of public records, and intelligenge gathering by the Khenalian Intelligence division, I am unable to firmly offer an opinion for inclusion into the Triumvirate at this time.

I am, however, extending the hand of friendship to the nation of Sagesquagmire, and opening up diplomatic relations. Perhaps with some greater experience of this nation, and its people, we can call for a vote on membership. Until such time, I regret the most I can suggest at this time would be a Friendship Treaty and an opening of diplomatic relations.

Regards,

Prime Minister Andrew Seal
Imperial Commonwealth of Khenala

-<End Transmission>-

I'm all for RPing the application process from start to finish. Good way to get to know 'em.
Who's up for it?

I'm all for RPing the application process from start to finish. Good way to get to know 'em.
Who's up for it?

OOC: I'm composing a telegram now hoping to arrange a state-visit, opening of embassy, discussions amongst our leaders, etc. As soon as I get a reply from him/her I'll begin a thread.

OOC: Wow! Looks like lots has been going on while I blinked. Heh heh.

IC: We look forward to the results of the trade relations with New AreAreBee, and also how events unfold in reference to Sagesquagmire.

*Holy Empress Evendim pours over her international conference invitations, and immediately sights the letter headed with the Triumvirate of Yut's symbol, she grabs it and begins to read. Disappointed at what seemed to be the beginning of a rejection for membership, she almost stopped reading out of frustration.... she decided to continue... she was never one to give up on something that meant a lot to her. She read on, coming across the offer for diplomatic relations, and a conference involving meeting the members.....

She was excitted... she immediately shouted for Squilth to prepare her things so she could begin arrangements for visiting state inspectors..

OOC: Are you coming or am i going? :)

IC:

Evendim sat down to right a quick response letter to the Triumvirate and to all nations that have contacted her over the past few days....

<<Dear Respected Triumvirate and all Members,

Thankyou for you most kind consideration for my membership of your Alliance.

Although the Holy Wheel Empire of Sagesquagmire is relatively small in relation to many of your larger nation members, we do hold much pride in ourselves.

In order for you to observe our lovely nation for yourselves i invite you to a conference/ball, whichever is preferable to your greatness... serious or fun... i may cater for either preference.

We shall discuss all that concerns the Triumvirate, like embassies, diplomativ relations and the like when we arrange to meet.

Thankyou Again for your most appreciated consideration for Sagesquagmires Membership to your Alliance.

Holy Empress Evendim,
High Priestess of the Temple Lana,
Mistress of the Empire.

The Emerald Heights of The SLAGLands would be honoured to send a delegation to Sagesquagmire. We shall accompany any other Yut member who chooses to come along.

I will choose a representative of the Ministry of Foreign Affairs in short order. As much as I would like to attend personally, business within The SLAGLands has forced me to remain here.

I look forward to hearing the enlightening response of my delegation.

http://invisionfree.com:54/40/9/upload/p1229.jpg
Wololo
Minister of Foreign Affairs
The Emerald Heights of The SLAGLands

We also will express our interest in your diplomatic event. We have a coterie of envoys to fit any occasion, and all have tendered applications for attendance. When the format becomes clear, the appropriate emissary will be sent.

Emperor Gorrm
Kargaahl Imperial Complex.

It has come to my attention that the Triumvirate of Yut has recently experienced a small amount of difficulty regarding the recruitment of new members and the policies regarding such recruitment. While this has been nothing more than a minor inconvenience at the moment, the Triumvirate of Yut can streamline this process via the creation of a three-member Sponsorship Committee. Therefore, The Emerald Heights of The SLAGLands proposes the following amendment to the Triumvirate of Yut charter:

AMENDMENT FOUR: CREATION OF A SPONSORSHIP COMMITTEE

SECTION I: DEFINITION
1. The Sponsorship Committee shall consist of three (3) members in good standing of the Triumvirate of Yut, with each member holding equal status with all others.
2. The Sponsorship Committee shall be responsible for reviewing the requests of applicants to the Triumvirate of Yut prior to these applicants being brought before Yut at large. These three members will review the history of all applicants, taking into account the standards and ideals held by the Charter of the Triumvirate of Yut.
3. The Sponsorship Committee may choose to either accept or refuse a Yut applicant via a simple majority vote among its members following the background check period.

SECTION II: MEMBERSHIP
1. Initial members to the Sponsorship Committee will be nominated by one member and the nomination seconded by another. Once at least three nominees have been selected, and after a period not to exceed one week of the initial nomination, all Yut nations will vote for three nations apiece. The three nations with the most votes shall become the initial members of the Sponsorship Committee.
2. In the event that a Sponsorship Committee position is vacated, replacements may be nominated and seconded by any member of Yut. After a period of nomination not to exceed one week, all Yut nations will vote for one replacement. The nation with the most votes shall be promoted to the Sponsorship Committee.
3. Membership to the Sponsorship Committee may be revoked by a simple majority vote among the Sponsorship Committee or First Among Equals, or by a 2/3 majority vote from all members.

~~~

If anything within this amendment needs revised, please notify me. Otherwise, may we consider it up for vote and/or discussion?

http://invisionfree.com:54/40/9/upload/p2814.jpg
Sakura
Acting Viceroy
The Free Community of SLAGLand Titan

As this comes on the coattails of the rejection of another respected nation, Our SisterState, Angelus will have nothing to do with the process of induction for Sagesquagmire. We abstain from voting, and We refuse to offer any statements pro or con their induction into the Triumvirate.

---
Automata X1
First-of-Thirteen

I believe the idea is to put both nations through the board so we can get to know them better. Our greatest mistakes came from not looking deep enough into the backgrounds of members to see if they were stable enough to be acceptable... reference FSP and EOTED.

Also, we are opening relations with Kaenei now.

http://www.weirdozone.0catch.com/projects/nationstates/scolopendra/julius_razak.gifPseudoEmperor Julius M Razak
Scolopendran Delegate pro Tempore, Council of Yut
Triumvirate of Yut

Maria Peacecraft looks up from her desk to a coworker enjoying a new chair.
"We have a new applicant, John."
John shrugs, "I'm suprised, our allies were jerks as of late."

Maria sighed. "Ortillering everyone who disagree's with us is against Trium. ideals and policies. EOTED was being rather beligerrent, and Sentient People's seemed to just follow along."

John looks at her, "Still, we were jerks about it. That Razak is an ex-soldier. All the honesty of the cosmos, and the tact of a stick. SP seemed less aggresive than EOTED, we sorta alienated them. And now it looks like we're alienating the Angelus. Hate to say it, but I think we're 'acting French'"

Maria sighs again. "We're to apt to say what's on our mind instead of sugar coating it I guess. Well, I'll fire off a response to Sagesquagmire, and send a word up to Maica to try to talk to the Angeleans."




Dear Sagesquagmire,
While final decisions and actions for induction into the Triumvirate would need to take place at our council building, relations must begin somewhere. We would be honored to send a delegation to meet and discuss matters at hand.
http://images.google.com/images?q=tbn:pGDzgwfZAaIC:www.cinemamontreal.com/images/people-596-dagmaradominczyk.jpg
Maria Peacecraft
Office Of Foreign Affairs

Eniqcir would be glad to send a delegate to Holy Wheel Empire of Sagesquagmire. A suitable diplomat will be appointed as soon as a date is set.

-DHX Chameleon, under duress from the Steward

I ahve started a thread with the conference in mind.....

http://www.nationstates.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=97595

its there if anyone wants to role play this out

SUBJECT: NRRB-ToY Trade Relations

This would indeed be desirable, a date and time for this conference may be set at your leisure. Trade agreements and corporate exchanges will follow.

¤Trinitorial Trade Commission¤
¤The Tritarchic Dominions of New ArAreBee¤

I, Devon Treznor, on behalf of my Empire, thank the nations of the Triumvirate of Yut for your gracious welcome and kind words. I realise that the last thing you want to do is sit around and listen to me spout platitudes, so I'll keep this short.

The Empire of Treznor takes its alliances seriously. Some of you have discovered just how seriously. We have, in the past, found ourselves in controversial and unpopular positions because of this fact, but we do not apologise for it. In the end, we work toward the cause of peace and prosperity for all, including those who would be our enemies.

I do not expect to agree with you in policy all the time. I don't expect you to agree with every decision I make. All I can pledge to you is that I will not compromise the rights or safety of my allies, and I will defend you unto the death, if need be.

In the coming years I will be pushing my Empire toward an era of colonisation. We are struggling with population pressures, and I see interstellar exploration and colonisation as the best possible solution. I'll make no secret of the fact that my push toward space is a large part of my motivation for applying to the Triumvirate. Who better to watch my back than the biggest alliance in space? But every alliance brings with it responsibilities, and you have my word that I will always fulfill those responsibilities to the best of my ability and the resources of my Empire.

Now, I think I've prattled on enough. If no one minds, I brought a few delicacies from around the world in hopes of throwing a party. Any objections?

**************************
http://www.pwfc.org/images/gallery/smtorso3.jpg
Emperor Devon I
Empire of Treznor

http://www.weirdozone.0catch.com/projects/nationstates/toy-tiny.gif

**************************

Kaenei and Treznor have been added to the signatory list.

http://www.weirdozone.0catch.com/projects/nationstates/scolopendra/laura_kelvan.gifCivil Servant Laura Kelvan
Paperpusher Queen
Federated Segments of Scolopendra

House leader Stheet props up in his chair at the promise of delicacies. He sends back a communique to Treznor.

<<Laser-Pulse comm>>

I have absolutley no problem with a good party, especially when delicacies from the home-world are promised. We're having a touch of trouble growing our own food still, but get monthly shipments of staples from Sakkra Proper. This will be a pleasant distraction from the pressures of office here.

House Leader Stheet
Parliament of Sakkra Titan.

Vuksoti, Rrawlrit Treznor.

I have been assigned to relieve Diplomatic Officer Al-Sahhah as liason to your nation, and--because Supreme Emperor Tuyc-Ta'sskin is in Iraqstan--Advisor Kommetrez feels this is a good opportunity to introduce myself. You can expect both Advisor Kommetrez and I to attend.

G'cu zhu jeehaz rarehr.

http://www.weirdozone.0catch.com/projects/nationstates/scolopendra/sko'loti-huyc.gifDiplomatic Officer Sko'loti-Hucy
Envoy to the Empire of Treznor
Federated Segments of Scolopendra

Greetings to the respected Diplomatic Officer Sko'loti-Hucy.

The Empire is pleased to learn of your appointment, although we will miss the subtle humour of Officer Al-Sahhah. I look forward to meeting you at the party, and will provide a starting time when I receive sufficient confirmation from those wishing to attend.

Devon Treznor
Emperor

"With progress, while we often see many benefits, we inevitably find some cons. Progress in our international relations is paramount, however with the free trade and open travel we start to see some unfavorable elements.

We speak of international crime, crime syndicates, and terrorism.
As we open our borders, we find that it is hard to keep these unfavorable elements at bay.

Thus, we propose a solution, a counter to this threat if you would.
We propose the creation of an inter solar system police force. This would be a force seperate from the military, civilian in nature, created to deal with international crime and terrorism within our circle.

For now, it is tentively named I.S.S.P., Inter Solar System Police.
Its features would be as follows:

- International jurisdiction in regards to organized crime and counter-terrorism efforts

- Other nation specific crime would be out of its jurisdiction by default, unless signatory nation choses to allow it further powers.

- To be made up of officers from throughout the Triumvirate

- Possible creation of universally accepted criminal rights.

- Centralized control, decentralized command. With the headquarters being on Triumvirate international land, and each nation having seperate division headquarters in their respective nations.

- A more efficient and effective counter to international organized crime and terrorism.

- Maintains rights of nations, and allows nations to cooperatively prosecute criminals that effect multiple nations.


Of course, this is the barebones of the idea, you're free to debate its merits, suggest changes, or reject it outright."

http://www.tksdigiworld.com/images/bebop/julia.jpg
Julia Spiegel
Head of Berserker National Police

The Empire of Treznor applauds the ideology behind such a proposal, but this suggests imposing Triumvirate law upon other nations. Whereas we can see potential benefits, we feel the disadvantages outweigh them.

- A registration list would need to be created so that nations desiring protection by the ISSP can find no cause to complain of Triumvirate meddling in their private affairs.

- Some sort of renumeration is necessary due to the risk to Triumvirate personnel and resources, as well as basic maintenance costs. This is a high-cost low-return proposal, and we see no way to meet costs without it.

- Care will need to be taken to avoid entanglement in sticky political issues, such as pirate vessels with letters of marque.

And the list goes on. We feel that these issues should be addressed before we contribute to such a project.

There would also be the matter of reconciling member nations' laws, to avoid incompatibility problems. For instance, the sale of a given drug might be legal in Ravenspire but forbidden in, for instance, Menelmacar; the I.S.S.P. would seem either to be unable to effectively intervene to enforce the law of Menelmacar (limiting their power), or to attempt to overrule the law of Ravenspire by intervening in what is, by national standards, a legal trade. Neither of these is a desirable outcome.

Victor Delacroix

>>>Transmission to:ToY Communication Channels <<<
||From: Administration One C/o WorldDisc Transmission Redundencies||
||Re:Solar Policing ||

Whilst in theory the Serene Union agrees with the thoughts and principles behind the Treznor proposal, we feel that the arguments provided by Ravenspire concur with our own. In practice sovereign rule may clash with the founding principles and tasks that the policing was to be equipped with from the beginning. Though novel, we cannot see any feasible way in which this could be circumvented.



Minister Killthanus.

Intelligence Administratium.

Most Serene Republic Of Kaenei.

>>>Transmission Terminated<<<

I agree with both previous statements, but I have a possible solution - and perhaps something we should undertake without the police force in any case.

This would be based on an extradition treaty with several special clauses. Criminals could only be extradited for crimes which cause actual damage to persons or property - and crimes which are not 'self-caused'.

For example: Many of us have differing drug laws. Drug laws in Sunset are virtually non-existant - as long as it does not cause direct physical harm to others we don't care. But we will still arrest someone who robs someone to pay for his habit. They will not be charged with possession, they will be charged with robbery.

So that is how the extradition treaty and by extension the police force would work. If a group opposes a government through non-violent and non-harmful methods and flees to another nation they could not be extradited unless said stated wanted to. But if one of their individuals had murdered someone that individual would be extradited for that crime.

Does this make sense? Please, if you can think of an example that wouldn't work let's hear it.

>>>Transmission to:ToY Data Network <<<
||From: Administration One C/o WorldDisc Transmission Redundencies||
||Re:Trade negotiations ||


I graciously bring the request for trade relations by the Tritarchic Dominion back to forefront. An initial meeting is suggested, and I see no reason why we cannot proceed. Time and location at our leisure, I suggest for mutual ease we convene on the WorldDisc and open discussions, do we have any objections to this arrangement?

Minister Killthanus

Intelligence Administorium

Most Serene Republic Of Kaenei.

>>>Transmission Terminated<<<

I, General Hessinger, have been standing alone for awhile now, ever since the Trinue Collapsed, due to lack of leadership in my brother nations. I now look to seek admittance into the Trium so that I may not be alone any longer, or atleast be an associate of the Trium. Go ahead and read my consitution if you would liek to inspect my nation's laws and behavior

http://image.com.com/gamespot/images/2002/e32002/playstation2/redfaction2/rf2_thumb006.jpg
General Rudolf Hessinger
Leader of Commonwealth of the Isles of Wohlstand
Wohlstand Constitution (http://www.nationstates.net/forum/viewtopic.php?p=977950#977950)
http://www.weirdozone.0catch.com/projects/nationstates/rejected.gif

Looks like I never formally threw this one out.

http://www.weirdozone.0catch.com/projects/nationstates/scolopendra/laura_kelvan.gifCivil Servant Laura Kelvan
Paperpusher Queen
Federated Segments of Scolopendra

* - * - *

I graciously bring the request for trade relations by the Tritarchic Dominion back to forefront. An initial meeting is suggested, and I see no reason why we cannot proceed. Time and location at our leisure, I suggest for mutual ease we convene on the WorldDisc and open discussions, do we have any objections to this arrangement?
I have no objection to this.

http://www.weirdozone.0catch.com/projects/nationstates/scolopendra/speaker-to-animals.gifSupreme Emperor Speaker-to-Animals
Scolopendran Delegate, Council of Yut
Triumvirate of Yut

I graciously bring the request for trade relations by the Tritarchic Dominion back to forefront. An initial meeting is suggested, and I see no reason why we cannot proceed. Time and location at our leisure, I suggest for mutual ease we convene on the WorldDisc and open discussions, do we have any objections to this arrangement?


I/We do not have any objections, and would be more than willing to host such a discourse.

---
http://www.silentrequiem.net/angelus/images/littlearchai.jpg (http://www.silentrequiem.net/angelus)
The Angelus Archailect

Bump

I graciously bring the request for trade relations by the Tritarchic Dominion back to forefront. An initial meeting is suggested, and I see no reason why we cannot proceed. Time and location at our leisure, I suggest for mutual ease we convene on the WorldDisc and open discussions, do we have any objections to this arrangement?

No objections have been observed on our end. If it has to do with trade talks, i'm your reptile.

http://www.5amfunnies.com/sakkra/Character/kargaah.JPG
CEO Kargaah
Hreer Weapon Works

Office of the Director, Galaxy Exploration Command

A Proposal for the Release of Second-Line FTL Technology to Assist in the Exploration, Exploitation, and Colonization Effort

Having run the Galaxy Exploration Command since Governor Rijil stepped down to accept the post of Territorial Governor of Bright Morning in the BESS-7 system, I am struck by the gap between the size of our mission and the resources we have to fulfill it. Our mission, as set out when the Command was created, is to systematically explore the galaxy, search for resources to exploit and extrasolar sentience to contact peacefully. This is a tremendous mission, even in its first steps, and extremely dangerous as evidenced by the Beagle incident.

What do we have to achieve this mission? Five 'active' cruisers, of which only two ever seem to accomplish anything and one of those laid up for six months in refit. We're halting production on the cruisers we had planned to launch due to a seeming lack of interest and a need to expand our capabilities as cost-effectively as possible... thus the smaller, lighter, less-expensive Endeavour-class scouts.

What this says to me is that the GEC cannot fulfill its mission. At least, not alone. Looking into the past, the most effective exploration efforts were not public but private in nature. Everything from chartered expeditions to the East India Company all show that privatisation--while having its downsides--is an effective way to spur interest and success in exploration.

I'm not suggesting that we privatize or get rid of the GEC. We need the Command to act in a leadership and advisory role, to set the example. Also, with its superior training, it will be the elite of our exploration efforts. Still, we need to give private citizens the chance to explore as well, as they will add much needed manpower and will to the effort without having to increase requests from member nations.

In fact, we can turn a profit.

The Recommendations:
Introduce the technology of the Black Knight interstellar jumpdrive to the open market. We have been extremely careful to limit the public's access to FTL technology due to fears that it would fall into the wrong hands. As evidenced by recent conflicts with Arda, they already have similar systems. The Black Knight drive is utterly incapable of insystem jumps and would not give our adversaries any advantages. License production of Black Knight drives to private corporations. By doing so, we relieve stress on our federal shipyards that need to be dedicated to TYCS and GEC production while also creating a new source of income via licensing royalties and contractual agreements. These corporations could then sell the drives for a profit.
Charter organizations to use the Black Knight drives. It is absolutely vital that we maintain some modicum of control on whatever organizations use this technology, if nothing else but to regulate their practices and ensure that they do not break with accepted Triumvirate policy. Charters should be extremely effective in this matter, just as in the past. They will leave the user-organizations free to act as they wish inside the necessary limitations imposed by us.

I do not know how to implement these recommendations; I simply felt they needed to be made. I do believe, however, that if we act on this we can open up new opportunities for the Triumvirate and its citizens.

http://www.weirdozone.0catch.com/projects/nationstates/scolopendra/jon_hertzfeldt.gifAdvisor Jon Hertzfeldt
Director, Galaxy Exploration Command
Triumvirate of Yut

We have attended the Diplomatic Conference, and find that we are not against the inclusion of Sagesquagmire in our ranks. I reccomend a probationary period, however, in which there will have to be active participation in threads of interest.

Admiral Shaar

A Proposal for the Release of Second-Line FTL Technology to Assist in the Exploration, Exploitation, and Colonization Effort

The Recommendations:
Introduce the technology of the Black Knight interstellar jumpdrive to the open market. We have been extremely careful to limit the public's access to FTL technology due to fears that it would fall into the wrong hands. As evidenced by recent conflicts with Arda, they already have similar systems. The Black Knight drive is utterly incapable of insystem jumps and would not give our adversaries any advantages. License production of Black Knight drives to private corporations. By doing so, we relieve stress on our federal shipyards that need to be dedicated to TYCS and GEC production while also creating a new source of income via licensing royalties and contractual agreements. These corporations could then sell the drives for a profit.
Charter organizations to use the Black Knight drives. It is absolutely vital that we maintain some modicum of control on whatever organizations use this technology, if nothing else but to regulate their practices and ensure that they do not break with accepted Triumvirate policy. Charters should be extremely effective in this matter, just as in the past. They will leave the user-organizations free to act as they wish inside the necessary limitations imposed by us.

I do not know how to implement these recommendations; I simply felt they needed to be made. I do believe, however, that if we act on this we can open up new opportunities for the Triumvirate and its citizens.

Advisor Jon Hertzfeldt
Director, Galaxy Exploration Command
Triumvirate of Yut
With all due modesty, the Empire of Treznor feels that we can effectively assist you in turning a profit with this endeavour. We have undertaken a number of successful commercial projects and shown profit, not the least of which being the sale or trade of our fusion generator technology. We are naturally keen to be a part of this exciting proposal.

To your first point, many nations have or are already developing their own jump technology; this may not be of significant interest to many. Why pay money for something you already have? We must focus on the convenience, efficiency and safety of what is clearly mature technology. While proven technology may not be superior, it is reliable. We might also attempt to focus our attention on nations with burgeoning space technologies; once they get their hands on these drives, they're going to pick it apart and start building it on their own.

To your second point, we feel that we, among others, have the resources to handle production of a private enterprise. The Emperor has long encouraged private enterprise, buying shares to assist with cash flow and provide incentives for success. We do not have orbital shipyard, not having the need for it at present, but we would be happy to lease space from other nations that have it, thereby improving the economy of our allied nations. Licensing may be a sticky issue, though; we're going to have to be prepared to defend our rights when (not if) nations decide to break the agreement for their own benefit.

Lastly, we again refer to our earlier point. As members of the Triumvirate we are naturally bound to uphold the laws and policies of the Alliance, but our customers and business partners outside the Triumvirate may not be so concerned. We should explore avenues for redress before it becomes an issue. Perhaps we can add in a clause binding nations who purchase either the drives or the technology to devote a percentage of their resources to exploration, in addition to other legitimate commercial applications. Then a database can be maintained documenting who went where, and appropriate rewards or incentives can be granted based on performance. Organisations who fail to meet minimum criteria can have their ships seized and Triumvirate technology removed under breach of contract.

We look forward to participating in this remarkable opportunity.

Ian Stokes
Treznor Minister of Finance

{Secure YutLink Communications}
x Gilina Ingolfson (TED, IUoCetaganda
o Triumvirate Council

After reviewing the Black Knight technology, I have come to the conclusion that Advisor Herztfeldt's proposal is workable. Cetaganda has already introduced limited civilian use of its own FTL technology to certain highly trusted merchant vessels with great success, and I believe that the Black Knight technology is highly suitable to use as a commercial product outside the ToY. Ser Stokes of Treznor is quite correct in saying that it could turn quite a profit in developing nations that can not afford to fund research into FTL travel or build their own drives.

I would suggest that initially, the drives be licenced to trusted Triumvirate corporations such as TME Industries, KarmaCorp TechSystems, and IngolfTech, to name a few. Depending on the success or failure of the corporate ventures, we could then consider outside licenses. As far as chartering organizations to use the drives goes, I do not doubt that there are many transport corporations or exploration services that would gladly be willing to be under limitations for the massive benefits given by FTL drives. We may see slight drops in use of native transport, but the profits made would more than make up for it, especially once that profit turns into dozens of new exploration and colonization craft.

One possible problem, as Ser Stokes pointed out, is the possiblilty of other nations stealing our design, or groups that charter the drives misusing them. While legal action would likely solve any such problems, we must consider that economic sanctions or, in the worst case, military force may be needed. However, I doubt that this is likely to occure, and certainly not be a widespread problem.

In summary, Cetaganda whole-heartedly supports this proposal, and we look forward to assisting in carrying it out.

First Artisan Gilina Ingolfson
Technology and Engineering Directorate
Imperial Union of Cetaganda

I find the idea of rejuvinating exploration to be quite an exciting prospect, and getting the general population interested in exploration is always admirable. However we have a suggestion, that while it would slow the release rate, that would allow a further initial measure of control. I would suggest that the system only be released to our own civilian populations and corporations during an initial period. After that initial period the system can be released to outside nations through charters and similar contracted arrangements.

Senator Sau Linier
Senate Education Division Head,
Libertarian Paradise of Sunset

First off, I would like to state that the Shogunate would wholeheartedly support expanding the GEC through subcontracting to various corporations, though I agree that it would be better to keep such contracts limited to corporations based in Trium member nations.

Second, on the subject of FTL systems, the Shogunate appears to be one of the few space-capable nations of the Trium that lacks this capability for our space fleets. Would it be possible for us to subcontract FTL refits for our fleets from one of our fellow Trium members, as at this time we have no plans on the table for researching and developing our own FTL drives. Also, Akkard Grey raised an interesting idea that could help boost intergalactic trade between colonized extrasolar planets and stations without handing out FTL tech willy-nilly. His suggestion is the establishment of a Trium-owned and operated FTL ferry- essentially a very large FTL capable ship which could then transport non-FTL ships for a fee. Under this idea, the technology would be much safer from unscrupulous nations, and in turn the profits from such a venture could then go right back into the GEC to fund additional exploration craft and efforts.

And finally, to top off my little diatribe, my ally and neighboring nation Sneaky Bastards has contacted me with an interest in joining the Triumvirate. I have had my intel people do all the required research, and I can safely say that they would be an excellent addition to the alliance. They are slightly isolationist, and have a very hearty military force, but like the Shogunate, they are not an aggressive people, and these weapons are for defense of home and allies, rather than conquest. All that being said, I would like to sponsor Sneaky Bastards' application for membership and look forward to a hopefully favorable vote.

http://rpstudios.ian-justman.com/junk/furyavatar.jpg
~Firefury Amahira
~Lady Shogun Eternal under the Wings of Chaos
~Immortal Shogunate and Affiliated Territories of Reploid Productions

Incoming message
Channel: Yutlink
Origin: Offices of CEO Ghwaar, Kastaa power Works

We are in support of the move to subcontract for the GEC. This will serve a number of purposes:

It will promote relations with other nations, as they will keep in mind where their FTL is coming from, and will perhaps hold our nations in greater esteem.

It will promote greater trade beyond the System.

It will bring out-system nations closer to us, prompting a greater scope in trade possibilities.

The factories of Kastaa Power Works will be willing to assist in this endeavor in any suitable capacity.

In reference to the Shogunate's question, all persons attached to the Council of Yut have been apprisied of Sneaky Bastards desire, and have reported they will conduct an extensive background check and maintain them under scrutiny. When/if it comes time to bring the matter to a vote, we will be ready.

May you walk on warm sands.

Concerning Private Manufacture of Black Knight Drives

Okay... so Ingolftech, KarmaCorp TechSystems, TME Industries, Kastaa Power Works, and the entire Empire of Treznor have shown interest in producing the Black Knight ERB drives. The GEC leadership (including me) likes the idea of spreading the technology a bit internally to prevent monopolies... competition leads to innovation, after all.

Still, with the BK drive being a secure technology, we should probably vote on releasing it.

http://www.weirdozone.0catch.com/projects/nationstates/scolopendra/jon_hertzfeldt.gifAdvisor Jon Hertzfeldt
Director, Galaxy Exploration Command
Triumvirate of Yut

Concerning the Shogunate's Request for FTL technology
Given the nature of the Shogunate's space presence; the precedent of dissemination of Spacedy Ant tesseract drive technology between the Combined Services, Zero-One, Scolopendra, Karmabaijan, Berserker, Menelmacar, and Sakkra; and combined with the Shogunate's military history; I will use my authority as Commander-in-Chief of the Triumvirate of Yut Combined Services to authorize distribution of military-grade Spacedy Ant faster-than-light technology to the Shogunate for government uses.

I will also advise the Foot-to-Ass and Zero-One shipyards to prepare to refit the Shogunate fleets on their next refit and upgrade cycle. Engineers will coordinate with Shogunate shipyards and engineers to determine the most expedient way to do this.

http://www.weirdozone.0catch.com/projects/nationstates/scolopendra/cinctycs.gifCINCTYCS
Commander-in-Chief
Triumvirate of Yut Combined Services

Concerning the Admission of Sneaky Bastards and Sagesquagmire

I have advised Garbo of the Intelligence Section to perform follow-up intelligence. At the moment, I see no issue with them yet await my advisor's advice.

I think we need more support for Sagesquagmire than a simple 'not against.' What are the opinions of the other members of the delegation?
http://www.weirdozone.0catch.com/projects/nationstates/scolopendra/speaker-to-animals.gifSupreme Emperor Speaker-to-Animals
Scolopendran Delegate, Council of Yut
Triumvirate of Yut

Status of the Vote for Distributing Black Knight Drive Technology to Triumvirate Civilians
Votes needed: 11
Votes for: 5
Treznor
Cetaganda
Sunset
Reploid Productions
Sakkra

Votes against: none

Votes abstaining: none

Reply comm from Admiral Shaar

We are preparing to embark on a tour of the capitol city in the territory of Sagesquagmire. The Empress has been quite gracious and forthcoming, and the answers to our questions given were found not to be holding in deceit or double-talk.

I vote AYE for the inclusion of Sagesquagmire, with the condition that they undergo a probationary period determined by the Council, in which they will be observed for their level of activity and overall involvment to the benefit of the Triumvirate. In this way, we can see if their words match their actions.

Admiral Shaar

{Secure YutLink Communications}
x Gregor Vetinari (IUo Cetaganda)
o Triumvirate Council

After reviewing what we know of Sagesquagmire, I can see no reason to oppose their entry, unless anyone has anything they would like to add against their entry. Admiral Shaar's suggestion of a probationary period also has my support; in fact, I think that such a period would be a good idea on all future applicants.

Emperor Gregor Vetinari

###BEGIN TRANSMISSION###
~>Route: The Archailect - TofY:
{

Due to My/Our recent dissassembly of a vast majority of My/Our spacefleet, I/We find My/Ourselves with a surplus of raw materials. I/We also have several shipyards that are now sitting unused.

Thus, I/We have decided to offer the entirety of My/Our surplus towards this project, as well as offer the considerable efforts of 13 Angelic shipyards towards outfitting TofY ships with this new drive system.

Of course, I/We hope this is viewed as an emphatic "Yes" in regards to the current at-vote issue, and I/We look forward to working with My/Our bretheren on this project.

} [End]
~>Route closed
###END TRANSMISSION###

---
http://www.silentrequiem.net/angelus/images/littlearchai.jpg (http://www.silentrequiem.net/angelus)
Archai Angelus
Greater Saturnian Archailect

http://www.silentrequiem.net/triumvirate/images/trium_insig.gif (http://www.silentrequiem.net/triumvirate/)
[b]Membership: Triumvirate of Yut, Deus Ex Machina Consortium

Eniqcir votes Aye on the issues of Sagesquagmire's induction and the distribution of Black Knight technology.

Concerning Reploid Production's suggestion of using FTL ferries to generate revenue, The Down Under applied physics facility has for some time been working on a possible extreme-large-scale FTL device that may be suitable for this purpose. However, it should be noted that there are many problems left to work out, and an actual functioning prototype has yet to be built, leaving the technology purely in the realm of theory for the time being.

Lord Inbhailígh Crzleídzí, Steward of Eniqcir

-<Transmission Type: Diplomatic Communique>-
-<Destination: Council of Yut>-
-<Subject: Sagesquagmire Inclusion Vote>-

Fellow Councilmembers,

Before I continue, allow me to express my sorrow for the sentients lost in the horrible attack on Titan. We are still trying to determine the number of Khenalian citizens lost in the attack, but the specific number of our individual citizens matters little when one considers the scope of destruction and loss that we all, in particular Berserker, have suffered. We are all members of the Triumvirate. An attack on one of us, is an attack on all of us. An attack on Berserker is an attack on Khenala. Khenala will do everything it can to cooperate in the investigation of the attack, the effort of aid to our friend and neighbor Berserker, and the successful resolution of conflict once the perpetrator has been determined.

As you well know, Khenala has put forth sponsorship for the Holy Magic Wheel Empire of Sagesqagmire for membership into the Triumvirate. We recently had the pleasure of meeting Empress Evendim in person and touring her fine nation. We were impressed with her friendship, her professionalism, and what her nation has done for itself to make its place in the world.

That being said, Khenala is forced to vote AGAINST inclusion for Sagesquagmire into the Triumvirate.

Allow me to explain.

The Triumvirate, in the time Khenala has been a signatory nation, has suffered two major attacks on our citizens. The recent attack on Titan is one. The other is the Sketchian attack on the Angelan WorldDisc, a horrible deed which occured while the Triumvirate had a treaty of friendship in force. Our trust, and our people were betrayed in cold blood. It is an attack which, while not on Khenala itself, is one we will never forgive. As we stated earlier, an attack on one of us is an attack on all of us. An attack on Angelus is an attack on Khenala. The Khenalian people will never forgive the people of Sketch for their betrayal that day.

During our visit to Sagesquagmire, we discovered that Sagesquagmire is a signatory to the alliance known as the "Order of the Seraphim". This "Order" is headed by none other than Sketch. As we feel Sketch to be an enemy, and a danger to the well being of the Triumvirate and its citizens, we feel very strongly that the acceptance of Sagesqagmire into the Triumvirate will put Operational Security in great danger, something that we all accept responsibility for.

While it is certainly possible that Sagesquagmire will be an outstanding member of the Triumvirate with no problems, the risk to OpSec, we feel, is too great.

For this reason, Khenala cannot in good conscience vote to allow Sagesquagmire into the Triumvirate.

We will allow our fellow signatories to draw their own conclusions, and to allow the vote to go forward we will not withdraw our sponsorship, but Khenala can not and will not vote for inclusion.

May the Suns shine brightly upon your paths.

Regards,

http://www.fumetsu.net/ns/andrew_ns.jpg
Prime Minister Andrew Seal
Prime Minister
Imperial Commonwealth of Khenala

-<End Transmission>-

My Esteemed Neighbours,

After reading the above post by Khenala, I feel that I must, at least say something to reaffirm your trust in myself.

Although The Holy Magical Wheel Empire of Sagesquagmire is a signatory nation of the Order of the Seraphim, The Empress has not been an active member for a long period of time, and was under no circumstances aware of the "Sketchian attack on the Angelan WorldDisc".

Having read the Forums for the Order of the Seraphim as a result of this declaration from Khenala, I have not found any indication that Sketch had made it known to the rest of the Order of his plans, and the subsequent attack against Yut territory, including any who are affiliated with the Triumverate.

I am most upset, and quite disappointed that my honesty within the conference has possibly ended any possibility that I may be given the privelege to become a member of a *real* alliance.

How may I rectify this situation?

Holy Empress Evendim,
HMW Empire of Sagesquagmire.

OOC: This is currently a closed session so you wouldn't have heard Khen's remarks, at least not immediately.
Don't fret though, acceptance is based on a vote, and Khen's vote isn't a death knell.

That being said, the Order of Seriphim does cause us some concern, as Sketch has been an enemy to us in the past. Kind of an ackward situation.

I think more pertinent questions are "what do you mean by 'post,'" "how are you listening in on this secure meeting," and "if you are disappointed that your honesty may have disqualified you, does that mean that you should have lied to maintain qualification?"

http://www.weirdozone.0catch.com/projects/nationstates/scolopendra/janus_garbo.gifAdvisor Janus Garbo
Intelligence Section
Federated Segments of Scolopendra

I think more pertinent questions are "what do you mean by 'post,'" "how are you listening in on this secure meeting," and "if you are disappointed that your honesty may have disqualified you, does that mean that you should have lied to maintain qualification?"


OOC:

Ok, well secret meeting or not, I cant really read something like that and not say something... What would you have me do?

With my honesty, I was completely honest, and my point was the so many people would leave out facts in order to protect against possible denial... I didnt. I do pride myself in being completely honest at all times, about everything, no deceit and no double-speak.

*goes away, and refrains from commenting on what goes on in the private Triumverate Discussion*

The people of Karmabaijan have always supported the advancement of good commercial practices, and I believe that this is nothing more than a smart business dicision for the GEC. Karmabaijan votes Aye for the distribution of the BK drive to in-house corporations that clear security probes.

http://okcac.freeyellow.com/sarge.gif
President-General Xeruyu VonKarma
Ordinance Enabled Karmic Hegemony of Karmabaijan
Triumvirate of Yut
Titan

Given the Shogunate's endorsement of the plan for the GEC, I would like it to be known that RPRA Techcorp would also be interested in utilizing this FTL technology. The Techcorp has some new craft on the drawing board that could very easily be converted into exploration craft with the addition of FTL drives.

-Akkard Grey, CEO
-RPRA Techcorp.

While I/We may agree with the way that the Holy Magic Wheel Empire is run, I/We ardently agree with Khenala's statement regarding their entrance into the Triumvirate.*
*
The risk to Operational Security is too great, and in order for us to continue as an effective Alliance, we must all be able to trust each other completely. That being said, I/We would like to point out that in the unlikely scenario of the Triumvirate being at military odds with the Order, Angelus would be completely unable to trust the Holy Magic Wheel. *
*
Furthermore, I/We would like to point out that while I/We hold great emnity towards Sketch and their farsical government, I/We in no way hold that against the Holy Magic Wheel. I/We simply do not wish to see a place where the Wheel would be forced to choose sides.*
*
Lastly, words are simply that, words. How many enemies do we have that would love to have a signatory nation within the Triumvirate? Eyes and ears within our most secret briefings? Sketch has proven themselves to be a steadfast (if not openly outright) enemy of the Triumvirate, and I/We do not feel that by words alone should we enclude an ally of theirs (especially one as staunch as the Wheel) into our organization.
*
--- *
Archai Angelus
Greater Saturnian Archailect

Taking all this information into account, we will abstain until such motions as to clarify the situation are taken.

The Shogunate will abstain from voting on the subject of Sagesquagmire's acceptance into the Triumvirate for much the same reasons Khenala and Angelus have stated. If this information had been openly revealed at a much earlier time, I imagine this subject would not have made it to a vote in the first place.

However, since the Shogunate has not been actively involved in Sagesquagmire's application, we will merely abstain at this time.

http://rpstudios.ian-justman.com/junk/CGgoods/tsume5.JPG
~Tsume Dragonis
~Secretary of Foreign Affairs
~Immortal Shogunate and Affiliated Territories of Reploid Productions

We are peripherally aware of this Order, insomuch as they're a band of spacefaring nations coming together for mutual benefit. We believe their goals were initially aggressive, although we confess to not having heard much from them of late.

The Empire of Treznor votes that the Holy Magic Wheel be denied application at this time in light of this new information. They may choose to plead innocent of any wrongdoing, which they may well be. But their ties to such a clear enemy of the Triumvirate represents an unacceptable conflict of interest. The Empire suggests we allow them the opportunity to reconcile their conflicted allegiances and decide where their loyalties truly lie. Should they choose to disavow the Order of Seraphim and renew their interest in the Triumvirate, they should expect a careful audit of their relations with Sketch and similar nations. If they succeed in such an examination, we would pleased to invite them into a probationary status.

Alec Tribune
Spokesman for the Emperor of Treznor

We would like to applaud Treznor's words on this matter. Furthermore, I/We agree on the measures mentioned therein.

Our vote lies in the positive for the release of the Black Knight drives to in-member corporations and charter groups who pass suitable probes. As our own Athena system expands to the various colony worlds of the Triumvirate we can give these groups a 'head start' in their voyages into the wider galaxy. A further offer will be made to allow these groups to purchase the standard SEC communication relay / sensor satillite for deployment on their trips at cost. This will expand our own sensor network substancially for a negligable amount, and allow us to keep an eye on these groups.

Senator Sau Linier
Senate Education Division Head,
Libertarian Paradise of Sunset

----

Concerning the status of the Sagesquagmire application I would agree with the general concensus - their application should be put on hold until their relationship with this 'organization' can be ascertained. Therefore we abstain on that vote until that effort is complete.

President Atef Al-Zief
Libertarian Paradise of Sunset

Due to their alliance with Sketch we cannot in good conscience support Sagesquagmire's entry into the Triumvirate. We must judge by the company one keeps, and if they leave one alliance to join us, what does this say about their loyalty to their allies, and thus, to us should another alliance beckon?

For these reasons we vote NAY to their application.

It seems Sagesquagmire is caught in a catch-22. If they remain in the Order, we reject them for their association with Sketch. If they leave the Order, we reject them over questions of their loyalty. I propose that if they truly were unaware of the actions of Sketch against the Triumvirate, they should not be held accountable for those actions- and if they are willing to give up their ties to that organization in order to join ours, I'd rather give them the benefit of doubt and consider it an honor to be held in higher esteem than their former associates.

Lord Inbhailígh Crzleídzí, Steward of Eniqcir

It seems Sagesquagmire is caught in a catch-22. If they remain in the Order, we reject them for their association with Sketch. If they leave the Order, we reject them over questions of their loyalty. I propose that if they truly were unaware of the actions of Sketch against the Triumvirate, they should not be held accountable for those actions- and if they are willing to give up their ties to that organization in order to join ours, I'd rather give them the benefit of doubt and consider it an honor to be held in higher esteem than their former associates.

Lord Inbhailígh Crzleídzí, Steward of Eniqcir
The Empire of Treznor agrees with the Steward of Eniqcir. While Sagesquagmire has shown poor judgment in their past allies, we feel it should not destroy any opportunity to improve their international relations. If they can satisfy us that they do not pose a security risk, we feel that the original recommendation should stand. Clearly, a probationary period involving close scrutiny is called for, but not outright dismissal.

While Sagesquagmire's alliance with Sketch is troubling, I think that their honesty in admitting to it does show that they should not be dismissed out of hand. I believe we should go forward with a probationary period prior to full admittance, with the clause that they first break from the Order. Let them prove to us that they are worthy of our trust.

Gregor Vetinari

Status of the Vote for Distributing Black Knight Drive Technology to Triumvirate Civilians
Votes needed: 11
Votes for: 8
Treznor
Cetaganda
Sunset
Reploid Productions
Sakkra
Angelus
Eniqcir
Karmabaijan

Votes against: none

Votes abstaining: none

Status Concerning Admission of Sagesquagmire
Votes needed for admission: 14
For inclusion at the moment under current circumstances: none

Against inclusion at the moment under current circumstances: 6
Khenala (firmly)
Freod (firmly)
Angelus (agreeing to Treznorian caveat)
Treznor (with caveat to allow Sagesquagmire to break OotS ties and undergo re-evaluation)
Eniqcir (agreeing to Treznorian caveat)
Cetaganda (agreeing to Treznorian caveat)
Abstaining, awaiting further information: 3
Sakkra
Reploid Productions
Sunset

--UNDER CURRENT VOTING, ADMISSION IS IMPOSSIBLE--

Advisor Garbo reports that SIS has found nothing. The admission of Sneaky Bastards into the Triumvirate is therefore put up to immediate vote.

http://www.weirdozone.0catch.com/projects/nationstates/scolopendra/speaker-to-animals.gifSupreme Emperor Speaker-to-Animals
Chief of State
Federated Segments of Scolopendra

Status Concerning Admission of Sneaky Bastards
Votes needed for admission: 14

Votes For: 1
Reploid Productions (sponsoring)

Votes against: none

Votes Abstaining: none

Angelus abstains from voting on SB.

We have dealt with the Sneaky Bastards in the past, albeit indirectly through a joint research project with the Shogunate. We feel they do not pose a security risk, but will add significant value to the Triumvirate. We therefore vote to admit them.

Alec Tribune
Spokesman for the Empire of Treznor

What few dealings with Sneaky Bastards that we've had have been good, and we trust the reploids completely. They have my vote.

Emperor Gregor Vetinari

We have had little dealings with the Sneaky Bastards. There would and should be a period of questioning before we can vote, so we will abstain for now.

Status Concerning Admission of Sneaky Bastards
Votes needed for admission: 14

Votes For: 3
Reploid Productions (sponsoring)
Treznor
Cetaganda

Votes against: none

Votes Abstaining: 2
Angelus
Sakkra

Concerning Sagesquagmire

Empress Evendim has left the Order of the Seraphim as she promised. I cannot say exactly why now, but I believe we have rejected her out of hand. The fact is that the Order is now mobilizing. It is taking her exit very poorly.

I think the risk she takes is indicative of her worth.

http://www.weirdozone.0catch.com/projects/nationstates/scolopendra/speaker-to-animals.gifSupreme Emperor Speaker-to-Animals
Scolopendran Delegate, Council of Yut
Triumvirate of Yut

Agreed. Who is it that sponsors them for membership? If there is no sponsor, then we will take that position.

While I realize my missive is perhaps out of the ordinary, it seems the circumstances and reason behind the proposal for the introduction of the Black Knight drives and expanding both intergalactic trade and exploration would be reason enough for me to jump in and voice our support of this project.

Though we are in no way on the level of competition and production some of our esteemed allies are in these areas, we can’t help but think that our resources and workforce could be an asset to this endeavor. Unlike our good friends in Treznor, we do have ownership in a shipyard, and plans are in the works for further efforts in that and other directions that I can’t help but think could be of mutual benefit. We also are in favor of leasing, as has been mentioned, from our Triumvirate allies – mutually beneficial

We wish to put our support behind this potentially profitable venture, and put forward Eidolon Technologies Inc. as a candidate for the project. I can’t help but agree with our colleagues in many of the points brought up, especially the need for some caution and provisions in who such drives are released to. The FTL ferry proposition, limited licensing, security checks, and perhaps a trial of Trium only nations all appeal, though if there exist nations deemed already trustworthy enough in the eyes of the alliance as a whole, we would have no particular objections.

http://home.mchsi.com/~ketri/wsb/links/bernardo_di_medicism.jpg
Bernardo di Medici
Dominion Minister of Trade

Undersigned and supported by:

http://home.mchsi.com/~ketri/wsb/links/donatello_calfasm.jpg
Donatello Calfa, Minister of Finance

http://home.mchsi.com/~ketri/wsb/links/leandro_paccism.jpg
Leandro Pacci, Minister of Science

-----------------------------------------------

While the Ministers of the Dominion have opinions as to the inclusion of both Sagesquagmire and Sneaky Bastards into the Triumvirate, I have been informed that we are awaiting official confirmation on these matters. We do wish it known that we support Sagesquagmire leaving the Order, and would suggest this not only speaks well of them, but would shed some light on their true intentions. All the same, we as always, suggest caution in entering into any new international relationships. While both actions and words have been bold on the part of the Empire, as they say, Se sono rose, fioriranno – time will tell.

http://home.mchsi.com/~ketri/wsb/links/evangelistasm.jpg
Evangelista Ravanelli
Dominion Minister of Public Relations

-<Transmission Type: Diplomatic Communique>-
-<Destination: Council of Yut>-
-<Subject: Sagesquagmire Developments>-

Esteemed Councilmembers,

It has recently been made aware to us that Sagesquagmire has left the Order of the Seraphim. While this certainly is a great step towards regaining our trust and abating our suspicions, it does not go far enough.

There are two things we must look at if we are to change our vote. One of those things is Risk, which we have already described in great detail. The other is Benefit.

If the benefit of having Sagesquagmire as a member of our alliance outweighs the risk we take in accepting them, then we will vote "yes".

Sadly, at this point, that is not the case. While Empress Evendim has stated she has withdrawn from the alliance, we have no way of definitively proving that this is not merely lip service intended to garner our trust. There is a chance that this whole bid for membership is nothing but a ruse for the Order of the Seraphim to infiltrate our ranks.

The attack on the WorldDisc happened because we were too trusting. We handed out treaties of friendship and non-agression to any who asked for it because we trusted them, in good faith, that those nations would abide by those treaties. If we do not learn from history, we are doomed to repeat it.


The attack on the WorldDisc and the massacre on Titan should temper our reasoning. We cannot afford to be so trusting. While it is certainly possible Empress Evendim is dealing with us in good faith, there is also the possibility that she is not. If she is not, and her membership in the Triumvirate causes a leak in vital intelligence and information, we can suffer yet another catastrophic attack.

I do not suggest dismissing Sagesquagmire out of hand, I only suggest caution. At this point in time, Khenala will NOT vote for inclusion until definitive evidence is presented that shows Sagesquagmire cannot be and is not being used as a spy on our interests. Perhaps an economic and/or non-aggression treaty would be more suitable to our interests and that of Sagesquagmire until such proof can be presented.

Councilmembers, I urge you to think of the possibility that accepting Sagesquagmire into our alliance, at this time, will give enemies such as Sketch a voice in our proceedings. Alliance members are privy to vital intelligence regarding the defense of our signatory nations. We must make sure that OpSec is NOT violated in any way. It must be held sacrosanct.

If, in the event of another vote, Sagesquagmire is accepted into our Alliance, then we will of course abide by the vote and welcome Sagesquagmire with open arms. But I shudder to think of the consequences of that vote should they prove to be other than what they have presented themselves.

Please, if anything, consider my words.

Regards,


http://www.fumetsu.net/ns/andrew_ns.jpg
Prime Minister Andrew Seal
Imperial Commonwealth of Khenala
-<End Transmission>-

###BEGIN TRANSMISSION###
~>Route: The Archailect - TofY:
{

As is painfully obvious by the most recent UN rankings, I/We are not the most compassionate of peoples. However, I/We feel that I/We should weigh in on this situation, and possibly offer a solution to this debate.

While I/We have never had any dealings with the Holy Magic Wheel, I/We would say that no difficulties has arisen between Me/Us and them. That being said, I/We believe that ties be created. Trade, at first, and then possibly a mutual defense contract can be drawn up.

While it does not overly concern Me/Us if another nation thrives or falls, I/We would hate to bear the stain of uncountable innocents who died because their government wished to join Me/Us.

I say we provide protection for Sagesquagmire in the event that the Order proves to be unaccepting of their departure. I/We believe that it was done in good faith, though I/We will be the first to admit that I/We have not always been the best judge of character.

Let Sagesquagmire open her doors for TofY garrisons to be placed in the Holy Magic Wheel. This way, we will get a feel for their peoples, provide protection, and will test the mettle of their resolve.

Furthermore, as Automata-Designate AK-1 can attest, I/We have ways to establish whether or not Truth exists within the minds of those who decision it was to leave the Order.

As always,

} [End]
~>Route closed
###END TRANSMISSION###

---
http://www.silentrequiem.net/angelus/images/littlearchai.jpg (http://www.silentrequiem.net/angelus)
Archai Angelus
Greater Saturnian Archailect

http://www.silentrequiem.net/triumvirate/images/trium_insig.gif (http://www.silentrequiem.net/triumvirate/)
[b]Membership: Triumvirate of Yut, Ur Trade Pact, Deus Ex Machina Consortium

We vote 'Aye' on the inclusion of Sneaky Bastards. Our research shows them to be as they claim, and we would welcome their membership.

President Atef Al-Zief
Libertarian Paradise of Sunset

-<Diplomatic Communique>-
-<Destination: Council of Yut>-
-<Subject: Privatization of Black Knight Drive Tech, Sneaky Bastards Inclusion>-

After an intelligence check, Khenala has decided to vote FOR inclusion of The Defensive Pacifist Nation of Sneaky Bastards into the Triumvirate. While their name is a tad questionable, we have been unable to find anything sneaky or bastardly about their intentions, and we trust the word of the Reploids.

Regarding the Black Knight Drive technology being licensed to Triumvirate citizens, we feel this will be immensely beneficial in both the support of and creation of our colony worlds, and the economic benefits our member nations will reap due to the release of this technology will be immense. We also vote AYE.

Regards,

http://www.fumetsu.net/ns/james_ns.jpg
James Seal
Khenalian Foreign Minister and Personal Liaison to the Prime Minister
On Behalf of the Prime Minister
Imperial Commonwealth of Khenala

Status Concerning Admission of Sneaky Bastards
Votes needed for admission: 11 (OOC: Number adjusted because I remembered the FAE can't vote on this topic yet)

Votes For: 5
Reploid Productions (sponsoring)
Treznor
Cetaganda
Sunset
Khenala

Votes against: none

Votes Abstaining: 2
Angelus
Sakkra

Status of the Vote for Distributing Black Knight Drive Technology to Triumvirate Civilians
Votes needed: 11
Votes for: 10
Treznor
Cetaganda
Sunset
Reploid Productions
Sakkra
Angelus
Eniqcir
Karmabaijan
Dread Lady Nathicana
Khenala

Votes against: none

Votes abstaining: none

Corporations suggested/interested:
Technology-Manufacturing-Energy Industries
KarmaCorp TechSystems
Empire of Treznor
Ingolftech
Kastaa Power Works
RPRA Techcorp

On the matter of the admission of Sneaky Bastards, Ravenspire votes aye.

On the matter of the distribution of the Black Knight technology, Ravenspire votes aye; fold drives have been in use in civilian vessels in Ravenspire for some time.

On the matter of the admission of Sagesquagmire, Ravenspire votes aye. Furthermore, Ravenspire may choose to take certain drastic measures in order to protect Sagesquagmire should it prove necessary in the near future. It is our belief that the Triumvirate bears a certain degree of responsibility toward Sagesquagmire should certain situations arise. As to the other, we are firmly committed to the proposition that change is possible. It is our practice to offer a second chance, but rarely a third.

Sakura Kitsuki

In light of the latest developments, the Empire of Treznor is happy to change our vote to "aye" on the matter of Sagesquagmire's application to the Triumvirate. However, we stress the need for increased security with regard to them, and urge a probationary period during which they are watched closely. If they would be willing to submit to a security audit, it would help alleviate many of our concerns.

Alex Tribeca
Spokesman for the Empire of Treznor

The recent actions of Empress Evendim and the risks that she has incurred would seem to show that Sagesquagmire is indeed worthy of consideration for entry into the Triumvirate. As such, Cetaganda changes its vote to 'aye.' Obviously, they will need to be watched closely for some time to ensure that our trust is not misplaced; because of this, I agree with the suggestion that a probationary period be set. I suggest that during this time their access to strategicly important information and technology be limited, and that we follow a careful plan for intergration of Sagesquagmire into the Triumvirate during this time.

Possibilities to assist this intergration might include cultural and student exchanges and allowing them to participate in the peaceful operations such as Galactic Exploration Command; the Triumvirate joint colonies stand out in particular as a way to help bring them in. Programs such as these are the best way to insure that we are not hurt again by making it so that Sagesquagmire has a strong interest in protecting the Triumvirate long before they could gain any information that could harm us.

Emperor Gregor Vetinari
Imperial Union of Cetaganda

Angelus changes its vote concerning The Holy Magic Wheel to "Abstain", but would like to add that if the time comes that they are attacked by the Order, Angelus will protect them as I/We would protect any Triumvirate nation.