NationStates Jolt Archive


An Analysis of NationStates Generations

Unibot
28-02-2009, 01:45
An Analysis of NationStates Generations
Contributed by Unibot

"Every generation imagines itself to be more intelligent than the one that went before it, and wiser than the one that comes after it." George Orwell

I’ve been thinking about doing an anthropological analysis of NationStates generations for a while now. This isn’t a complete analysis by any means. Furthermore I do not know the history of NationStates as one would if I had ACTUALLY been there, so please correct me if I make a mistake. I use a theory of generational archetypes that I find works with the generations, if you are unfamiliar with this system; I have copied an explanation of the generational archetypes for you from a wiki article (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Generations_(book)). The basis of these archetypes is on the notion that the dispositions of generations repeat with the cycles of human events.

Prophet/Idealist. A Prophet (or Idealist) generation is born during a High, spends its rising adult years during an Awakening, spends midlife during an Unraveling, and spends old age in a Crisis. Prophetic leaders have been cerebral and principled, summoners of human sacrifice, wagers of righteous wars. Early in life, few saw combat in uniform; late in life, most come to be revered as much for their words as for their deeds.

Nomad/Reactive. A Nomad (or Reactive) generation is born during an Awakening, spends its rising adult years during an Unraveling, spends midlife during a Crisis, and spends old age in a new High. Nomadic leaders have been cunning, hard-to-fool realists, taciturn warriors who prefer to meet problems and adversaries one-on-one.

Hero/Civic. A Hero (or Civic) generation is born during an Unraveling, spends its rising adult years during a Crisis, spends midlife during a High, and spends old age in an Awakening. Heroic leaders are considered to have been vigorous and rational institution-builders, busy and competent in old age. All of them entering midlife were aggressive advocates of technological progress, economic prosperity, social harmony, and public optimism.

Artist/Adaptive. An Artist (or Adaptive) generation is born during a Crisis, spends its rising adult years in a new High, spends midlife in an Awakening, and spends old age in an Unraveling. Artistic leaders have been advocates of fairness and the politics of inclusion, irrepressible in the wake of failure.


The Generations of NationStates and their Archetypical Representations

Protogonus Generation (Pioneers)= Hero/Civic
Zelus Generation (Afterwards creation, preceding baby boom) = Artist/Adaptive
Proteus Generation (Pre Influence) = Prophet/Idealist
Lotophagi Generation (Post Influence) = Nomad/Reactive
Theseus Generation (Post WA + Decline) = Hero/Civic
…………………………………………………………………
Hypothesized “Raleigh Generation” (Post-Revival?) = Artist/Adaptive


Archetypical Events in the course of NationStates History

Crises= Creation, the disbandment of the UN, the Great Decline
Awakenings= Regional Influence
Unraveling= the humdrum years following Regional Influence, cultural disintegration
High = the culture renaissance of NS (preceding Influence), the inclusion of multiple feeder regions to account for the Baby Boom.

A Brief Analysis of the NationStates Generations

Protogonus Generation

Very few of these veterans still exist; they are the pioneers of the game. They came to NationStates like Columbus with a great discovery, and conquered the world like Napoleon. They forged the first regions, and experimented with the first social societies and organizations. The generation’s main function was establishing systems, and new regions. A good real world example would be the Republican Generation (though George Washington was born a few years before it) that led the revolutionary war. The Protogonus had a remarkably low life expectancy, just over 21 days on average (deletion due to inactivity was 21, not 28 days in this era).

Some NationStates examples of the Protogonus Generation are,
Maxtopia (Sir Protogonus himself)
Ineptia (Founder of the Heartland)
The Bruce (Founder of Wysteria)
Cupertino (Founder of Farkistan)


Zelus Generation

These players arrived to the game with fresh individualistic ideas to a slowly progressing NationStates world. Under their direction, NationStates exploded with a cultural renaissance. They were also easily frightened of crises. With their involvement, a baby boom progressed. These explorers of the modern world found that NationStates needed a bit more creativity, and added greatly to the already established systems, created new ones, and tried to bring order and righteousness to them, they were enthusiastic players. A real world example that correlates back to the Zeluses would be, the silent generation, that were a hard working group of people, known to be strong activists, though also were criticized for being “withdrawn, cautious, unimaginative, indifferent, unadventurous and silent.”. The Zeluses improved on the life expectancy of their forefathers, and played the game with more consistency, their averaged life expectancy was 58 days.

One self "diagnosed" Zelus and notorious roleplayer, Automagfreek, commented on his generation, it's history, the great decline and the future with a lot of passion that I think will connect with fellow zeluses. I encourage you took take a further look (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=14579903&postcount=15).


Some NationStates examples of the Zelus Generation are...
Frisbeeteria
The Most Glorious Hack
Sirocco
Automagfreek
HotRodia
1 Infinite Loop (opened the original NS flag Service)


Proteus Generation

This generation arrived in a baby boom that naturally followed the cultural renaissance of NationStates. They found themselves in a very developed world, with several different demographics and styles of play. Many players frolicked in the wide variety of organizations and institutions that had been created by their forefathers. However there was an increasingly large dispute over Influence, which divided them from their conservative predecessors. There also seems to be prevalent liking of humor, which stemmed from this generation. As for a main function, expansion was one the underlining principles under the Proteus Generation’s prevalent years. The mod conspiracy theories stems from this generation, but flourished in the Lotophagi generation. The best example of a Proteus Generation in Real Life would be the Baby-boomers, who alienated authority and were the first to really relish in the life style of a “teenager”. After the "Awakening", they died away fairly quickly, and became very conservative in their manner and roleplays (focusing on mostly Real Tech and strict political guidelines). This shift to realism might have been caused by the turbulence of the age, but no matter what, it obviously was a factor in the Great Decline. This could correlate back to real life, with the radical teenagers of the 60's becoming business oriented "yuppies" of the later years. The Proteuses had a lower life expectancy then the Zeluses, and on average, players died away at 49 days. This drop in the expectancy could be due to the overwhelming amount of expendable puppets at the time created for roleplays.

One Proteus describes his memories of the generation...

"While we were the newbies in the RP world at the time, it seems to me at least that we quickly came to dominate it, along with the more motivated '03 posters. (In II the so-called Proteus Generation gave rise to posters such as Praetonia, Doomingsland, The Kraven Corporation, etc.) Oddly enough, while we tried to break the rules a lot starting out, we later on became the most conservative of the generations so far, nearly flattening the political landscape before disappearing from the scene, mostly due to RL obligations. (Or something.) Nowadays it's hard to find a Proteus who's still active enough to count; even in the General Forum they're gradually dying off -- generally those who stay in the UN or become moderators last the longest. As far as generations go, though, it has a shorter staying power (only 2-3 years) than any of the two that preceded it, although longer than the succeeding generation's (which can be less than 2 years on average)."

Some NationStates examples of the Proteus Generation are...
Flibbleites
Ardchoille
Omigodtheykilledkenny
Evil Wolf
Eireann Shamrock (http://nswiki.net/index.php?title=Eireann_Shamrock)

Lotophagi Generation

Afterwards the cultural disintegration following Regional Influence’s activation, new nations found old organizations to join. Cultural progress is at an all-time low. There is a slow steady decline of population in this era, (NS looses about 45% of its size over two or so years). At this point in time, some start talking about a possible sequel. The residents become apathetic, if one went to the technical forum with a suggestion for the game his answer back would be “the mods already turned that down, so it’s not going to happen” within a few minutes of posting. This generation found that gaining respect among players, becoming influential and savoring distinguished autonomies was important. Many of the players on NationStates are probably in a real world generation such as Lotophagi, but don’t even know it. Generation X would be a suitable example of such. One Lotophagi explained his generation's existence as a fairly ignored one, because they're "not old enough to be well regarded by the ancients and not young and brash enough to demand the attention of the Theseids". Also adding that

"they make a decadent playground of the mouldering monuments of a once grand civilisation for which they have a unjustified nostalgia, since they never experienced the Apotheosis at first hand. They are the Byzantines, Spain under Phillip IV, The Sassanians, The Late Hellenistic Kingdoms, The Mannerist and Baroque periods of 17th century Italy e.t.c".

The Lotophagi had the longest of life expectancies out of the generations, with 81 days on average. This depicts the generation as being the most dedicated base of players. Around this time, a revival of Past-Tech threads became popular, some of which tiptoed into the line of alternative history threads and sparked a lot of controversy (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=528525&page=1).

Some NationStates examples of the Lotophagi Generation are...
Todd McCloud
Naivetry
Urgench
Zwangzug


Theseus Generation

The most recent of generations, these nations we’re born in an apathetic world that had been thrown on its side. Societies had been totally destroyed with a mysterious great decline, and the UN exploded into an “extra-dimensional fireball” to be replaced by a newfangled successor, the World Assembly. Many players of this generation find themselves lost on where to join, with a world that has been spread thin of dieing ideologies and playing styles, without the population to support it (as if a disease has ravaged through and sucked the meat off the belly of the beast, leaving only a skeleton). With a crisis emerging, their generation will do what it is necessary to fight through it, with a creative driven passion and determination. They at times don’t realize it, but with a crisis at hand, Theseuses have been raised to preserve what they can, as well as revive, restore and bring back the game with all its glory and might. This generation is in complete correlation with the real life generation that is edging on university age no doubt, the Millennials! NationStates has witnessed a large scale domination (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=528525&page=1) of roleplay threads based around future tech (FT) under the Theseus generation. It would be interesting to see if real world events such as Obama’s inauguration had an effect on NationStates. Though the generation has not yet finished its prevalent years, a rough life expectancy is calculated at 37 days on average. Much lower than previous generations, and obviously a sign of the Great Decline.

Some NationStates examples of the Theseus Generation are...
New South Hell
Unibot (Author of this amazing analysis)
Mayor for Life



A Conversation between these Canonical Generations

An important aspect to this anthropological study is how these different generations get along. In NationStates it is common to read a conversation between members of varying seniorities. So let me elaborate on this concept with a thought experiment, imagine a big metaphysical, chronological, gravity defying, multiplying, air-looming, lobster cracking cube. In this magical box are representatives of the five generations. As if it is a lucid dream, their reason for being there in the box is arbitrary and undefined, and their attempts to distinguish their perceived reality as a dream are fruitless. The proceedings in the box would go something like this…

Protogonus paced around the box, unimpressed with his company. He felt just a tad awkward from all of the stares that the younger representatives gave him. Stroking his white wig, and addressing the scruffiness of his colonial attire.

(At times, the “fame” of being an older nation can estrange and alienate Protogonuses)

Zelus was a quieter man who looked over at Protogonus for advice. Apparently in the past, he had been his loyal apprentice. With Protogonus silent, so was Zelus. Which left Proteus to address the quietness, “So, is someone going to talk about something!? Or should I be leaving to find a magical magazine stand somewhere?”

The joke made the older crowd laugh, but had Theseus confused.

The young, fair-haired man interrupted the controlled laughter, “hey! Maybe we SHOULD be trying to leave this place, there has to be something more than just this box.” The father of Theseus, Lotophagi, shook his head, and smiled with embarrassment to the other representatives, “no son, that’s never going to happen. Proteus was just making a joke.” To Lotophagi’s embarrassment, Theseus continued. Now addressing the royal Protogonus with little of the reverence that Zelus or the others showed him, “Hey Protogonus! You founded this place! Why don’t yeh order a royal expedition…to discover the world outside of the box? Eh?”

Protogonus did not answer back. But Zelus stepped in to address the rowdy young man, “the answer is simple. There is nothing to explore out of this box. Believe me, Proteus has tried numerous times.” Zelus glared coldly at Proteus. To break up the awkwardness, Proteus and Lotophagi laughed at the boy’s folly.

But then something terrible happened, Lotophagi started to cough blood. Disease had spread throughout the box, and it was now apparent that their home was no longer safe.

Proteus and Zelus remained in a constant argument about what to do, Zelus wanted to care for Lotophagi but Proteus wanted to leave the cube, so he wouldn’t contract the disease, and therefore called Zelus an old fool.

This was when Protogonus pulled rank, putting his hand between the two confrontational men, he explained “It’s time for you two to listen; we shall take a royal expedition.”

Proteus and Zelus were stunned.

Protogonus finished his commands with a question, “and who will lead?”
Protus looked at Zelus because of his seniority, and Zelus looked at Protus because he felt like he had misjudged the situation with Lotophagi, and figured he DID deserve the position more.

While this was going on, Theseus jumped to grab their attention, he felt it was imperative for them to leave and he also thought his father could be saved. However, his attempts were futile, at least for now. But Protogonus knew that Theseus would come out of the expedition being the leader of the men, regardless of who started out as the supposed leader.



Breakdown of “Unibot’s Gerontocube”

There are some important aspects of intergenerational conversations that can be discussed with a breakdown of the story. To start, there is a definite ladder of power among the ambassadors, but it’s an awkward one. You must understand, Protogonus devised the Gerontocube, and therefore is fully respected by everyone, even the young Theseus to an extent. Zelus learned everything from Protogonus, and therefore is the most respectful of him, with an exception of Lotophagi. What separates their dealing with the elder is, Zelus is not afraid to communicate with Protogonus, because they were once close, but Lotophagi knows only of legends of the great elder, and therefore is embarrassed when his son tries to address him.

There is also a very thin line of control between Zelus and Proteus; these two generations can at times be confrontational, with one attempting to take the stance as parent over the other and the other attempting to throw the authority off his shoulders. This is similar to real life examples, where the Prophet will rebel from the Hero's timely institution, and be confrontational with the Artist. In most societies, the preceding generation begins teaching a generation later, the omission is evident here as well, Proteus had little to do with Lotophagi’s education; he left that up to Zelus. This is obvious when Lotophagi becomes sick, and Proteus shows no sympathy. Being taught by Proteus as opposed to his apathetic father, Theseus has the same sort of rebellious streak to him that Proteus had in his younger years, but his disposition is not of out arrogance like Proteus at times but out of distress for his father’s safety. Protogonus also hints to a bit of favoritism with Theseus, which may stem from them being so similar, they’re going to have what socionics dubs an Identical Relation (http://www.socionics.com/rel/idn.htm), while Proteus and Theseus will have a Mirror Relation (http://www.socionics.com/rel/mrr.htm). Protogonus's may feel recently energized by the Theseus's generation, and want to help with their cause, the Proteus's alienation of authority is what kept them from feeling the same energy before.

So, we have Protogonus who made the box. Zelus who established the first of its social rules. Proteus who tried to break those rules, Lotophagi who relished in them and Theseus who wishes to step out of the box.


Predicting the Future of NationStates

Using this model, I can lay out a prediction of the future. The Theseus generation will convince other significant members of the generational landslide that a course of action needs to be taken to combat the Great Decline. Consider this time an epic battle of ideologies, generational rivalries, and a rebirth of social institutions. Older, wiser and well respected members of NationStates will awake from their pedestals, and feel compelled to help the cause. The Lotophagi will be hesitant of such changes, and for the most part let the crisis be averted by others. Not out of ignorant lethargy, but out of social apathy and a love for a system they don’t understand fully, or truly know. This hesitation is a logical one, the last time the system was changed it led to the Great Decline (regional influence). Zelus and Proteus generations may have a hard time distinguishing the movement behind these changes from the ones that brought forth the initial awakening. In the coming months, systems will be revamped, or scrapped and replaced with something more efficient.

The Theseuses will carve their way into NationStates history with new social institutions and game mechanics that bring about a NationStates revival. There is a relative calmness for a while, the Raleigh generation emerges. Their populace is a homogeneous one, which partakes in only a few different demographics, silent and forgettable. But their existence is welcomed by the Theseuses who had worked hard to see such arrivals and new blood. Ralieghs will find themselves befriended and taught by Lotophagies, who are as lost in this new and brave face of NationStates as the newborns. Their doctrine of stability, knowledge and authority will drive the Ralieghs to enforce strict new social rules in their prevalent years. In the coming months of mid 2010, the young and fresh Alaric generation will materialize. With their arrival marks a new age of imagination which helps to expand on the world forged by the Theseuses and the Ralieghs, but also instigates a huge change to the game’s mechanics. Around 2012, a magnificent alteration to the game will carry a huge price, as Alaricods and Ralieghs argue over its creation, popular institutions will become outdated with the changes. Creativity and populace will decline once again, worse than in the original great decline. Imagine NationStates falling like Rome. The Zhuangzi generation will slowly fill NationStates hollowed halls, echoing generations before it, as they attempt to put the pieces back together like a gigantic puzzle. The Alaricods and the Ralieghs will drop out of attendance with the fruitless attempts of the Zhuangzi to put back together its troubled world. NationStates will die a slow lingering death and will never reach its cyclic heroes, the Croatoan generation scheduled to arrive in early 2016.

One has to remember that NationStates will be very different in 2016. There will be a few distinctive demographics, and many failed projects. New features such as Regional Issues, and a glorious new systems for delegacy will be abroad. Predicting NationStates in six years is about the equivalent of guessing what Earth will look like in 110 years. Also one has to consider the possibility that the Internet will change, in six years, a lot of technological progresses can happen, as well as a possible NS3 sequel (shudder...) that could drain the Croatoan populace's attention from NS1.


“An Inquiry of Assembly Values” – A Social Experiment

After little debate with myself, I set out to test these anthropological theories. I had at first considered an experiment with a supposed “vulnerability” in the code that would allow for some humorous circumstances. But in the end I decided on a simple thread (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=586674) which outlined a question I have asked myself a lot, and wait for the replies. The question is “should the World Assembly have an army” among other discussions, the reason this is such a “debatable” topic is because the World Assembly is forbidden from forming an army, a decision which apparently was not left to the participants to decide. I figured the issue would show the generations very clearly, with their varying dispositions. Unfortunately, the thread was closed before too many observations could be made, in fact only members of two generations had time to comment (Proteus and Lotophagi).

The Lotophagi appeared apathetic to the argument, it took them the longest to register what I was getting at, and they suggested that I would fail. Showing no hope for change. The Lotophagi crave “maturity” and acceptance within the systems they respect, they wear their apathy like a badge. When someone else walks in and shows no “realism”, the Lotophagi suggest that they back down, as they have or else the society might not respect them, and immediate failure would follow. The Proteuses were more confrontational, they took the attack on the rules as an attack on themselves and the system they were protecting. This leads me to suggest the Violet Curve, a generational experience that is alive today in real life; generations after the “awakenings” such as the Boomers switch from absolute liberalism to strict conservatism in decades. The Proteuses were initially quarrelsome with their founders who were attempting to force them into conformity. But after they saw the changes they wanted to the system, the Proteuses became the greatest protectors of the systems. I would like to also point out, that although confrontational, the Proteuses were not totally apathetic to possibility that change could happen, because they have experienced it before, but they were still confrontational in “behalf of the system’s defense”.

I’d also like to thank a particular Proteus for being the only one that actually tried to answer my question of why there is a ban on the World Assembly’s potential army. You know who you are.

A Census Report of Generations

Data collected by me and a talented colleague, which reveals the distinct make-up of NationStates.

The census report was conducted with a python script that scans the <FOUNDED> tags in the XML feeds of Nations which describes how long ago the nation was founded. Some Protogonus outdate the <FOUNDED> tag’s creation and therefore have a <FOUNDED> date that equals zero – they were included in the census as Protogonuses.

As of April 29, 2009 …

NationStates can be dissected as,

3.7% Protogonus Generation
5% Zelus Generation
8.3% Proteus Generation
17% Lotophagi Generation
66% Theseus Generation

With merely two thirds of NationStates being young this causes me to think that the majority of Theseuses are merely puppets that have been newly created, however this assumption is unproven and based entirely on common beliefs.

_______________________________________________________________


If you disagree with the depiction of a Generation, please say so. I could be dead wrong on my anthropological analysis, I don’t have much history to go by, and I’m applying a very theoretical model to it. If you do approve of the generational analysis, and you wish to contribute with more significant events, please do so. If you don't approve of your name being used as an example for a generation (possibly because you think this generation stuff is silly and you don't want your name linked to it :p), for what ever reason, please just say so, I'll take your name off, promise. If you think you can add to the list of names with better examples, please post them.

Thanks for Reading
Unibot
Zwangzug
28-02-2009, 02:17
Hmm, you lay out an interesting schematic for the eras of NS history. If you expanded on the idea, I'd be interested in your hypotheses about the attitudes of these players and the approach they take to the game.

As a sports RPer, I see fairly distinct "cycles" of events, at least on the OOC front. In that arena, I would tend to agree that the atmosphere of the era in which one enters inspires a significant amount of later attitude. Though I suppose the less somebody knows about the game coming in, the more influential their (mis?)interpretations of the ongoing activity become in the absence of anything else. That's what happened to me, anyway...:p
Unibot
28-02-2009, 02:27
Well, I'm going to need to do some research to fill in my analysis, this is just an overview.
You see, I have no clue what it was like to be there in 2003...I'm just guessing really. The motives of each generation is something I was interested in covering for sure.

Something like,

Motivations of Players

Protogonus Generation = Establishing
Zelus Generation (Afterwards creation, preceding baby boom) = "Creating",
Proteus Generation (Pre Influence) = Expanding
Lotophagi Generation (Post Influence) = Playing
Theseus Generation (Post WA + Decline) = Saving
Trostia
06-03-2009, 18:55
Squirrels are, by far, preferable to llamas.
Unibot
06-03-2009, 20:39
Squirrels are, by far, preferable to llamas

Sure, yeah. :p
Erastide
06-03-2009, 21:07
squirrels are, by far, preferable to llamas.
:D llamas
Bears Armed
06-03-2009, 21:17
goldilockss :D
Unibot
06-03-2009, 22:27
Oh I don't know, I like Walruses the best. Not only do they represent Capitalism to a tee, John Lennon sang about them...which bumps them into a entirely different league.
Urgench
07-03-2009, 01:36
Surely there must be "boundry" players who do not neatly fit into the definition of one generation but are influenced by the transitional periods between generations no ? I ask because I would have put Urgench somewhere between Lotophagi and Theseus but not entirely in either.....
Unibot
07-03-2009, 01:51
Surely there must be "boundry" players who do not neatly fit into the definition of one generation but are influenced by the transitional periods between generations no ? I ask because I would have put Urgench somewhere between Lotophagi and Theseus but not entirely in either.....

Of course. I would say your a Lotophagi, Urgench. Though having grown up on the edge of its generation.
Urgench
07-03-2009, 02:06
Edit: though the more I read the descriptions the more Lotophagic i think Urgench is, especially the part about " This generation found that gaining respect among players, becoming influential and savoring distinguished autonomies was important "

Lotophagics are sort of the most ignored of the generations aren't they ? Not being old enough to be well regarded by the ancients and not being young and brash enough to demand the attention which the Theseids do. They make a decadent playground of the mouldering monuments of a once grand civilisation for which they have a nostalgia which is unjustified since they never experienced the Apotheosis at first hand. They are the Byzantines, Spain under Phillip IV, The Sassanians, The Late Hellenistic Kingdoms, The Mannerist and Baroque periods of 17th century Italy e.t.c.

Wouldn't Amorality be a defining character trait of Lotophagic too ? something for which they are despised by the Theseids and the Zelusids ? But are secretly admired for by the Proteids who never felt able to go that last step further ?
Unibot
07-03-2009, 02:33
Edit: though the more I read the descriptions the more Lotophagic i think Urgench is, especially the part about " This generation found that gaining respect among players, becoming influential and savoring distinguished autonomies was important "

Lotophagics are sort of the most ignored of the generations aren't they ? Not being old enough to be well regarded by the ancients and not being young and brash enough to demand the attention of the Theseids. They make a decadent playground of the mouldering monuments of a once grand civilisation for which they have a nostalgia which is unjustified since they never experienced the Apotheosis at first hand.

A clear and elegant analysis for the Lotophagi in their own eyes, I would say.

To answer your edited question, "Generation X" is in real life the most recent example of a "nomad/inactive" generation as is the Lotophagi. Its characteristics include, apathy, media literate, suspicious of government...and such.
Urgench
07-03-2009, 03:21
:eek:What's weird is that actually I was born in 1979 and I think I'm "Cold Y" generation , Scary stuff :eek::eek:
Unibot
07-03-2009, 03:47
On that note, I'd like to take this time to announce myself as a Virtualdeterminist,
so in five years from now when people start talking about "Virtual Determinism" and "Virtual Existentialism" with such vivid and complex virtual communities that mirror real life's philosophies... Wikipedia or at least NationStates will know who coined the term first...me. Dahm right.
Automagfreek
07-03-2009, 03:50
I'd by and large have to agree with the generational descriptions and my place on the chart (I'm honored to have been mentioned by the way), since I've been here for everything but the very beginning of NationStates. 6 years is a lot of time to spend on a game, and things are so very different now in comparison to 2003. I can really only speak for my experience in International Incidents since I have RP'd there exclusively, and I agree that a great decline has indeed taken place.

I remember a time when tech levels freely mixed, when the populace of entire nations consisted of fantastical beings such as vampires, cyborgs, elves, and so on. I remember when World War 4 first broke out and not sleeping for two days because I was just so excited and drawn into what was happening that I wanted to be there the second a new development broke. Granted the quality of roleplay and indeed gameplay was much...less evolved, but the volume was so great that there was never a dull moment.

However there was a trade off to the decline in volume and variety. In I.I. for example, the decline in variety meant an increase in quality, and I'm proud to have helped shape the RP community there over the years. Even though I'm still going strong 6 years after joining NS, I'm finding it difficult to continue because quite frankly, everything has been done already.

I think what needs to happen in order to keep things interesting is a regression of sorts, back to a state where variety and creativity abound. I want to see the fantastical nations and cultures, I want to see the imposing alliances, I want conflict that doesn't break down into total bitchfests. There was a time when people really didn't care about "winning" or "losing" at this game, and getting nuked or having an asteroid dropped on your nation simply meant you got a chance to start over and rebuild.

In I.I., it seems that wild creativity is punished because there is a strong sense of realism and wanting to make things feel as true to what is familiar in the modern day as possible. I think people need to let go a bit. Some of the best fun I've had was RPing a clone army, demons and ghosts freely moving about, and wild technologies that more often than not were completely absurd and really didn't do anything that practical. That's what makes this game fun; sculpting out a fantasy world outside of the real one where anything is possible. What's stopping us from doing it all over again?
Unibot
07-03-2009, 03:59
I'd by and large have to agree with the generational descriptions and my place on the chart (I'm honored to have been mentioned by the way), since I've been here for everything but the very beginning of NationStates. 6 years is a lot of time to spend on a game, and things are so very different now in comparison to 2003. I can really only speak for my experience in International Incidents since I have RP'd there exclusively, and I agree that a great decline has indeed taken place.


Well, thank you for showing your approval. Your words definitely speak a lot about your generation, which is one that is hard to understand from the eyes of someone like me that has little clue what it must of been like to have experienced those days... it at times can seem as far away as the Battle of Hastings (1066) for us newcomers.
Unibot
07-03-2009, 04:35
Wouldn't Amorality be a defining character trait of Lotophagic too ? something for which they are despised by the Theseids and the Zelusids ? But are secretly admired for by the Proteids who never felt able to go that last step further ?

Amorality? Eh..I don't think so. Possibly if you expand on your idea I'd understand.
At the moment I would say Lotophagi's are pretty grounded, and not Amoral by any sense of the definition. There is a conflict with the Thesuses and the Lotophargiods but thats because of their positions on apathy, and Proteids don't really have a secret admiration for the Lotophagi, they tend to take advantage of them actually...
Third Spanish States
07-03-2009, 04:39
NationStates: Serious Business.

To be honest, so far I can see mostly a EPIC FAIL generation of n00bs and/or puppets done by older players for the sake of trolling making "I haz NUKES!" threads, and the return to the old days of 2002s II overprevalent poor RPs.

This thread is like claiming every NS that joined before 2005 or which belongs to a given region is a "pompous elitist", because archetypes are just archetypes. Generalizations rather than anything truly precise, and not really useful for analyzing virtual interactions. For online anyone can be an prick without getting a punch into the face, among other things. The way people behave in the Internet will rarely match the way they behave in real life. A study on the latter thus won't apply properly to the former.
Unibot
07-03-2009, 04:47
This thread is like claiming every NS that joined before 2005 or which belongs to a given region is a "pompous elitist", because archetypes are just archetypes.

Well, I don't know bud. There seems to be a pretty strong pyramid of control with seniority, and a observable cycle of apathy in NationStates communities. But deny it if you want to.

To be honest, so far I can see mostly a EPIC FAIL generation of n00bs and/or puppets done by older players for the sake of trolling making "I haz NUKES!" threads, and the return to the old days of 2002s II overprevalent poor RPs.


Not to mention this sort of reply is exactly what would be expected of a Lotophagi, which you would be classified as, using your Join Date as an indicator.
Urgench
07-03-2009, 05:02
Amorality? Eh..I don't think so. Possibly if you expand on your idea I'd understand.
At the moment I would say Lotophagi's are pretty grounded, and not Amoral by any sense of the definition. There is a conflict with the Thesuses and the Lotophargiods but thats because of their positions on apathy, and Proteids don't really have a secret admiration for the Lotophagi, they tend to take advantage of them actually...


The apathy begets a hedonistic streak in Lotophagics a sort of who cares lets have a party attitude, and the apathy also begets moral relativism ( the curse of generation X ) all this leads to a lack of strong moral partiality, which looks like complete amorality on the surface but is in fact a reaction to not wanting to accept decay.

The proteids wouldn't admire the lotophagics for anything else ( and would pity them mostly ) but the would secretly like not to give as much of a fuck about ideals and morals in the way Lotophagics don't and indulge the teenager they love to pretend they are.
Unibot
07-03-2009, 05:08
The apathy begets a hedonistic streak in Lotophagics a sort of who cares lets have a party attitude, and the apathy also begets moral relativism ( the curse of generation X ) all this leads to a lack of strong moral partiality, which looks like complete amorality on the surface but is in fact a reaction to not wanting to accept decay.

The proteids wouldn't admire the lotophagics for anything else ( and would pity them mostly ) but the would secretly like not to give as much of a fuck about ideals and morals in the way Lotophagics don't and indulge the teenager they love to pretend they are.

Possible. I'm warming up to the idea.

You sound like you're ready to write an essay on Lotophagics. Don't let me stop you. :p
Unibot
07-03-2009, 05:12
Any Proteuses in the house? Your bio is kind of lame for such a influential generation, it could use some personal responses and elaborations.
Third Spanish States
07-03-2009, 05:16
Making joke RP: 1 hour
Contributing for ED: 5 minutes
Generating legendary thread: 15 minutes
Reading Popcorn Antropology study of a piece of the Internet: Timeless

There are some things time can't buy. For everything else, there's LOLCard
Urgench
07-03-2009, 05:35
Possible. I'm warming up to the idea.

You sound like you're ready to write an essay on Lotophagics. Don't let me stop you. :p

Well I suppose what I'm saying is that the apathy creates a sense of irresponsibility, " I can't fix what I see to be broken, so why bother trying ? " this means lotophagics also find it difficult to really take a moral stance on things, they can't say " I can't fix it, but you must " so they don't, hence the amorality. They also fear that if they point out the failings of other too much their own will be thrown in to too stark a relief.

So they both acquiesce in the decay and fear its consequences since they are worldly enough to realise that if the rot sets in too greatly the last vestiges of the civilisation they cling to with such nostalgia will be wiped away by barbaric new customs which will have a rigour and energy that will be deeply uncomfortable for them.
Bears Armed
07-03-2009, 11:35
I remember a time when tech levels freely mixed, when the populace of entire nations consisted of fantastical beings such as vampires, cyborgs, elves, and so on.

*(snip)*

Even though I'm still going strong 6 years after joining NS, I'm finding it difficult to continue because quite frankly, everything has been done already.

I think what needs to happen in order to keep things interesting is a regression of sorts, back to a state where variety and creativity abound. I want to see the fantastical nations and cultures,

Have you tried the 'Nationstates' section of the forum, and Sports RP, yet? We've certainly got a mixture of cultures, tech levels, and species, in the World Cup series of RPs there...
How about sending a tourist or three to my [predominantly non-human] country: There's a link to the Sign-up/OOC thread in my sig, or if you have viewing sigs switched off then the 'Tourism in Bears Armed' should be visible enough on the first page or two of that forum anyway...
New South Hell
07-03-2009, 13:33
:eek:What's weird is that actually I was born in 1979 and I think I'm "Cold Y" generation , Scary stuff :eek::eek:

And I, who am for some reason cited as a pseudo-Millenial, am in fact a baby boomer. Go figure!
Urgench
07-03-2009, 13:53
And I, who am for some reason cited as a pseudo-Millenial, am in fact a baby boomer. Go figure!

I imagine the date at which you founded your first NS nation is more of a definitive marker of your NSgeneration, and that a correlation between ones actual real life generation is a less diagnostic but still statistically more than a coincidence in many cases.
Zwangzug
07-03-2009, 14:45
I is t3h cynic? Fail. :(

Er...*remembers to focus on gameplay perspective* Motivation=playing is pretty much right as far as the in-game goes, so yeah. I take it Lotophagi are more self-interested introverts, more interested in their own issue-answering than broader change in the metagame? That'd be pretty accurate, then. :)

In real life, I'm a Theseus-equivalent, which might explain why being a Lotophagus initially feels rather stigmatic. What I find really interesting about the NS Theseus generation is that the silent majority is, by definition, the newbiest of us all. Nothing positive or negative about it, that's just the point in time they're at. But Unibot, for instance, seems to represent sort of the upper crust that can be conscious of truly "saving the game". You note that many Thesei (?) "find themselves lost", which I doubt is too far off, but it makes me wonder how few can be that articulate and conscious of their grand calling.

As a sports RPer, I think I'm an artist, but that we've probably burned through several cycles of the whole generational thing. Though that wouldn't make sense for the people who've been there the whole time...
Unibot
07-03-2009, 15:50
n real life, I'm a Theseus-equivalent, which might explain why being a Lotophagus initially feels rather stigmatic.

Either you're a member of the Millennial generation (1979-2000) or you're mixing up generational science with disposition and temperament, in which case I'd recommend you take a Myers-Briggs test online (http://www.kisa.ca/personality/), and Google your result for info.
_______________________________________________________________________

but it makes me wonder how few can be that articulate and conscious of their grand calling.

Thesuses tend to be more lost though. Imagine arriving in a Ghost Town that closes its door, calls you a greenhorn, or has the sheriff watch you twenty-four seven, enforcing a lot of strict, and at times, bizarre rules on you (not necessarily alluding to mods)

What I find really interesting about the NS Theseus generation is that the silent majority is, by definition, the newbiest of us all. Nothing positive or negative about it,

They're just not experienced, give it time and their disposition towards "saving" shall come forth in a bit more of a, eh, articulate manner. But possible we don't need them to be more experienced. Everyday you spend after your first spam telegram from the Pacific is a day longer to forget what it is to be a n00b. One of the biggest problems of the Great Decline lies in the first visit to NationStates, its a make or break virtual world out there. To solve our crisis, we need to remember how we felt as a newbie, and try to fix the system accordingly.
Urgench
07-03-2009, 18:12
I is t3h cynic? Fail. :(

Er...*remembers to focus on gameplay perspective* Motivation=playing is pretty much right as far as the in-game goes, so yeah. I take it Lotophagi are more self-interested introverts, more interested in their own issue-answering than broader change in the metagame? That'd be pretty accurate, then. :)

In real life, I'm a Theseus-equivalent, which might explain why being a Lotophagus initially feels rather stigmatic. What I find really interesting about the NS Theseus generation is that the silent majority is, by definition, the newbiest of us all. Nothing positive or negative about it, that's just the point in time they're at. But Unibot, for instance, seems to represent sort of the upper crust that can be conscious of truly "saving the game". You note that many Thesei (?) "find themselves lost", which I doubt is too far off, but it makes me wonder how few can be that articulate and conscious of their grand calling.

As a sports RPer, I think I'm an artist, but that we've probably burned through several cycles of the whole generational thing. Though that wouldn't make sense for the people who've been there the whole time...



I think large numbers of Theseids migrated to NS2 to get away from the old ways and try out life in a glitzy new world.
Unibot
07-03-2009, 18:32
I think large numbers of Theseids migrated to NS2 to get away from the old ways and try out life in a glitzy new world.

Possible. But I think many potential Theseids never got to NationStates, they just went to NS2 instead without trying the original. Which has contributed to the Great decline, to a degree.
Zwangzug
07-03-2009, 19:56
Either you're a member of the Millennial generation (1979-2000) or you're mixing up generational science with disposition and temperament, in which case I'd recommend you take a Myers-Briggs test online (http://www.kisa.ca/personality/), and Google your result for info.The former holds.

Everyday you spend after your first spam telegram from the Pacific is a day longer to forget what it is to be a n00b. One of the biggest problems of the Great Decline lies in the first visit to NationStates, its a make or break virtual world out there. To solve our crisis, we need to remember how we felt as a newbie, and try to fix the system accordingly.Yep. That's something I strive to be conscious of--I apologize if I offend anyone here, I don't mean to.

But I think many potential Theseids never got to NationStates, they just went to NS2 instead without trying the original.This seems very likely to me too.

Oh, and sorry to keep going back to sports RP, but Starblaydia recently broke down the history of the NS World Cup (http://www.nswiki.net/index.php?title=Craziness_Encouraged) into five eras. I tried to find correspondences between those and the four generational types represented here, but it almost seems like they'd be better in a different order...Heroes, Nomads, Prophets, Artists, (and more heroes?) But maybe not.
Unibot
07-03-2009, 20:04
Oh, and sorry to keep going back to sports RP, but Starblaydia recently broke down the history of the NS World Cup into five eras. I tried to find correspondences between those and the four generational types represented here, but it almost seems like they'd be better in a different order...Heroes, Nomads, Prophets, Artists, (and more heroes?) But maybe not.

Artists and Nomads can be easily confused. The difference is that Artists flourish in a "high", a time of stability, and growth. Nomads are the guys/gals who appear after a collapse, an awakening, or dark age.
HotRodia
07-03-2009, 20:12
I dig the analysis.

And llamas. Definitely llamas.
Zwangzug
07-03-2009, 20:13
Hmm. It's quite likely that I have confused them, that post makes it make more sense. When you say "flourish", are you referring to their period of greatest activity or achievement? Or their emergence onto whatever scene they happen to be emerging on?

I understand that appearing after a collapse or dark age could easily lead to cunning realism. I did appear in what felt like an age when it was difficult to be a newbie (much of this, of course, due to my newbish misinterpretations of what was going on), which certainly led to my continual insistence in seeing the game as newer users would. That's why I identify with the Artist description of advocating fairness and inclusion.
Unibot
07-03-2009, 20:25
Hmm. It's quite likely that I have confused them, that post makes it make more sense. When you say "flourish", are you referring to their period of greatest activity or achievement? Or their emergence onto whatever scene they happen to be emerging on?

I understand that appearing after a collapse or dark age could easily lead to cunning realism. I did appear in what felt like an age when it was difficult to be a newbie (much of this, of course, due to my newbish misinterpretations of what was going on), which certainly led to my continual insistence in seeing the game as newer users would. That's why I identify with the Artist description of advocating fairness and inclusion.

When I talk about fairness, I'm talking about social justice. I think a lot of Artists (Zeluses) enjoy the social rules they've created and stand by them. It's inspiring really.

It would be very difficult to be a n00b in the Lotophagi age, much like it is for a Theseus.
For Zeluses and Proteuses it is much easier, because there is a lot more growth, and a lot of focus on expansion in those eras, which leads to a need for inclusion.
Omigodtheykilledkenny
07-03-2009, 20:38
Snefaldia is a puppet of much older nation, actually, probably older than mine. And llamas rock.
Unibot
07-03-2009, 20:44
Hmmm...well, I'll take Snefaldia off the list until I get clarification.
HotRodia
07-03-2009, 22:00
Hmmm...well, I'll take Snefaldia off the list until I get clarification.

As I recall, that player was originally active with an April 2004 nation.

But why would we analyze generational trends in a nation simulation game based on the player's entrance into the game rather than the nation's entrance into the game?
Unibot
07-03-2009, 22:02
But why would we analyze generational trends in a nation simulation game based on the player's entrance into the game rather than the nation's entrance into the game?

It depends on how active the player was initially.

If a nation barely participated, and did not get influenced by it's generation, its not apart of it.
Urgench
08-03-2009, 02:46
As I recall, that player was originally active with an April 2004 nation.

But why would we analyze generational trends in a nation simulation game based on the player's entrance into the game rather than the nation's entrance into the game?



I would tend to think that the foundation of the nation is more diagnostic of its style of play and character.

I'm not a Lotophagic ( at least not entirely ) but i think Urgench definitely is, I imagine if I stopped playing for a while and founded a new nation it would respond to the new playing environment and be of a different nature.
Zwangzug
08-03-2009, 02:55
Hmm, I'm not sure. I'd say that the generational theory is more valid for players than nations...nations can be made at any time and with any style, but you're only a newb once.

Also, llamas>squirrels.
Urgench
08-03-2009, 03:17
Hmm, I'm not sure. I'd say that the generational theory is more valid for players than nations...nations can be made at any time and with any style, but you're only a newb once.

Also, llamas>squirrels.


But noobishness isn't the only defining characteristic of play is it ?
Zwangzug
08-03-2009, 03:21
No, sorry, that's not what I meant. I'm trying to get at the fact that the era in which you join shapes your perceptions of the game, and that experience can't really be repeated. You could join, not do anything, join later, and start paying attention--to that extent, it's not the date of joining the game that matters so much as the date of "immersion" or whatever.
Urgench
08-03-2009, 03:24
No, sorry, that's not what I meant. I'm trying to get at the fact that the era in which you join shapes your perceptions of the game, and that experience can't really be repeated. You could join, not do anything, join later, and start paying attention--to that extent, it's not the date of joining the game that matters so much as the date of "immersion" or whatever.


Oh I see what you mean, so presumably this would be the case if one joined up, was active, went away for a good while and re-immersed oneself again wouldn't it ? Or would one's initial immersion always be the most potent ?
Zwangzug
08-03-2009, 03:29
Well, I guess it depends on the person. I'm guessing the initial activity would tend to win out, but nobody's going to be a perfect match in any of the categories. People who had more than one immersion would probably be more complex and less definable.
Urgench
08-03-2009, 03:38
Well, I guess it depends on the person. I'm guessing the initial activity would tend to win out, but nobody's going to be a perfect match in any of the categories. People who had more than one immersion would probably be more complex and less definable.


I think that probably defines Snefaldia quite well actually.... I agree that no one will perfectly match a category though.

I imagine they act as a rough guide rather than a completely diagnostic tool though.
HotRodia
08-03-2009, 04:55
Oh I see what you mean, so presumably this would be the case if one joined up, was active, went away for a good while and re-immersed oneself again wouldn't it ? Or would one's initial immersion always be the most potent ?

My experience has been that the first immersion is the most potent, but I'm not sure that would hold true for everyone.
Saint Clair Island
08-03-2009, 05:35
Any Proteuses in the house? Your bio is kind of lame for such a influential generation, it could use some personal responses and elaborations.

*waves*

Been active, on and off (mostly off), since April-May '05 -- if there's one accepted "high" in NS history, that and the following summer was it. 150,000 active nations, General and II regularly topping 8-10 pages of moderate-to-high quality threads, et cetera.

While we were the newbies in the RP world at the time, it seems to me at least that we quickly came to dominate it, along with the more motivated '03 posters. (In II the so-called Proteus Generation gave rise to posters such as Praetonia, Doomingsland, The Kraven Corporation, etc.) Oddly enough, while we tried to break the rules a lot starting out, we later on became the most conservative of the generations so far, nearly flattening the political landscape before disappearing from the scene, mostly due to RL obligations. (Or something.) Nowadays it's hard to find a Proteus who's still active enough to count; even in the General Forum they're gradually dying off -- generally those who stay in the UN or become moderators last the longest. As far as generations go, though, it has a shorter staying power (only 2-3 years) than any of the two that preceded it, although longer than the succeeding generation's (which can be less than 2 years on average).
Ardchoille
08-03-2009, 12:26
<snip> But why would we analyze generational trends in a nation simulation game based on the player's entrance into the game rather than the nation's entrance into the game?


Why should we analyse them at all? Unless we're unwittingly doing someone's homework for a thesis on online communities, in which case, shock! Horror! How could you do that to us?

Also, chipmunks. They're more power-hungry than squirrels, and much less goofily musical than llamas, which consort with ducks and tend to have songs written about their whereabouts.
Urgench
08-03-2009, 14:23
Sloths definitely Sloths, they're so cute with their little up side down Faces and the moss growing on them....
Somewhereistonia
08-03-2009, 14:56
I like your idea Unibot, although I havn't been on NS long enough to know how close to the truth this is.

Also, Meerkats --> http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/b/bc/Suricata.suricatta.6861.jpg/250px-Suricata.suricatta.6861.jpg
HotRodia
08-03-2009, 17:43
Why should we analyse them at all? Unless we're unwittingly doing someone's homework for a thesis on online communities, in which case, shock! Horror! How could you do that to us?

Oh my. I feel so...violated.
Unibot
08-03-2009, 18:49
Why should we analyse them at all? Unless we're unwittingly doing someone's homework for a thesis on online communities, in which case, shock! Horror! How could you do that to us?

I have to admit, this could either rock my Anthropology mark, or totally bore and weird out the class, and its teacher. :p
__________________________________________________________

I think you're starting to get at what I meant by initial exposure, if someone didn't play the game for a very long as one generation (possibly not even logging in twice) the initial exposure would be very low, and therefore the second generation they resurfaced in would be their classified generation. If their initial exposure is evident, yeah, they would be classified as their initial generation.

This is a dilemma that obviously isn't documented anywhere else in Anthropology or generational science, because people don't exactly wait a few generations before appearing (after birth), and therefore this issue is unique to NationStates.
Urgench
08-03-2009, 19:51
I have to admit, this could either rock my Anthropology mark, or totally bore and weird out the class, and its teacher. :p
__________________________________________________________

I think you're starting to get at what I meant by initial exposure, if someone didn't play the game for very long as one generation (possibly not even logging in twice) the initial exposure would be very low, and therefore the second generation they resurfaced in would be their classified generation. If their initial exposure is evident, yeah, they would be classified as their initial generation.

This is a dilemma that obviously isn't documented anywhere else in Anthropology or Generational science, because people don't exactly wait a few generations before appearing (after birth), and therefore this issue is unique to NationStates.



With the exception of profound Amnesiacs perhaps. They may have spent a portion of their lives as a member of a particular generation and then suddenly find themselves, for whatever reason, having to re-learn the world again as a member of another generation.

I suspect though that for the purposes of Anthropology such persons would be statistically too few, or too anomalous for adequate analysis.
Unibot
08-03-2009, 21:43
With the exception of profound Amnesiacs perhaps. They may have spent a portion of their lives as a member of a particular generation and then suddenly find themselves, for whatever reason, having to re-learn the world again as a member of another generation.

The mind doesn't exactly learn as well after it goes through the trauma to cause amnesia, and considering age (the mind is more like a sponge in your pre-adolescent age) as a factor. I would consider it unlikely that one would take on the characteristics of the currently young generation in the case of significant brain damage and trauma because they would be unlikely to be treated with the same experience in "childhood" as what inspired a generation's certain disposition. Teenagers didn't exactly break into mental institutions in the 60's and give the patients dubies, and inspire them to protest Nam, though that would be undoubtedly awesome.
Urgench
08-03-2009, 22:18
The mind doesn't exactly learn as well after it goes through the trauma to cause amnesia, and considering age (the mind is more like a sponge in your pre-adolescent age) as a factor. I would consider it unlikely that one would take on the characteristics of the currently young generation in the case of significant brain damage and trauma because they would be unlikely to be treated with the same experience in "childhood" as what inspired a generation's certain disposition. Teenagers didn't exactly break into mental institutions in the 60's and give the patients dubies, and inspire them to protest Nam, though that would be undoubtedly awesome.


Not all profound Amnesiacs are amnesiacal due to brain trauma or damage mind you....

But I take your point more generally.
Unibot
09-03-2009, 23:22
I added averaged "life expectancies" to the canonical five's bios using census data from the Changelogs, Web Trackers and such. I wouldn't blindly trust its specific numbers, but in general its a good indication of trends, for example something you could pull out of it is Lotophagi's tended to be the most dedicated player base, known for their longevity while both of the Hero generations (Protogonuses and Thesuses) had remarkable shorter life expectancies (typically just one log in).

For example, only 10% of new players (Thesuses) are keeping with the game longer than their first log in.

As opposed to Lotophagi's documented, 65% rate.
Unibot
09-03-2009, 23:31
Also, a question to the floor...

Was the "28 days of inactivity rule" active for the first generation, the Protogonuses.
Sirocco
10-03-2009, 19:23
It used to be 21 days.
Unibot
10-03-2009, 20:04
That explains somethings, thank you Sirocco.
Unibot
15-03-2009, 01:17
Bump
Urgench
15-03-2009, 16:17
By the way, this thread is interesting and reasonably clever, if the whole " the w.a. should have an army " thing you posted at the w.a. was an extension of this or was somehow related to it, then i have to say that wasn't terribly clever or interesting.

There's a difference between being a Theseid with lots of interesting new ideas and just being one of those irritating types who wants to change the rules of a game just for the sake of being a pain in the arse.
Unibot
15-03-2009, 16:28
hmmm..... Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar. Urgench.

http://www.bu.edu/mih/images/Freud.jpg

Did you ever come to think it might have been research ...or a social experiment?
Urgench
15-03-2009, 16:41
hmmm..... Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar. Urgench.

http://www.bu.edu/mih/images/Freud.jpg

Did you ever come to think it might have been research ...or a social experiment?


So you were just trying to be an irritating pain in the arse then ? :p
Unibot
15-03-2009, 16:47
Well, have some Preparation H (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Preparation_H) if you like... :p

But no harm was intended though. Sorry.
Urgench
15-03-2009, 16:57
Well, have some Preparation H (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Preparation_H) if you like... :p

But no harm was intended though. Sorry.


Thanks for bum cream :p

And I do get that your proposal was part of an experiment, but its annoying enough dealing with all the crappy "post a draft and dissapear" resolutions which bedevil the place. Knowing that a proposal has been put before the w.a., which the player who is proposing it has no intention to or could have no expectation of being able to actually work on and bring to vote is frustrating and in this case feels a bit like being asked to offer one's time and input for absolutely zilch, nada return.
Unibot
15-03-2009, 17:06
and in this case feels a bit like being asked to offer one's time and input for absolutely zilch, nada return.

Sounds a little apathetic to me.... If I was Sigmund, I'd take a block of crack out of the refrigerator and start asking you about your mother.

But seeing as how, I'm not Sigmund. I'll settle with going out of breakfast, and coming back to write, "An Inquiry of Assembly Values : A Virtual-Social Experiment" with all of its conclusive and surprising results.

Stay tuned. Same bat time. Same bat channel.
Brutland and Norden
17-03-2009, 15:00
Why should we analyse them at all?
Hell yeah. Why should we?
Unless we're unwittingly doing someone's homework for a thesis on online communities, in which case, shock! Horror! How could you do that to us?
That mind-reading powers again!

If this ploy wasn't exposed, I'd think the OP could be ruminating on shallow stuff too much. :eek::p

PS. Too many unknown words, lol. Did you make it up?
Urgench
17-03-2009, 15:16
Hell yeah. Why should we?

That mind-reading powers again!

If this ploy wasn't exposed, I'd think the OP could be ruminating on shallow stuff too much. :eek::p

PS. Too many unknown words, lol. Did you make it up?


Wow how characteristically B+N :p
Naivetry
27-03-2009, 18:38
I like your analysis overall, and I agree that I fit into the Lotophagi generation.

I would suggest that the dedication of the Lotophagi is due to their perception of and admiration for the glorious past and their corresponding desire to win a place in that history. They understand that it takes commitment to excel and they are willing to put in that time in order to join Proteus and even (if they're ambitious) earn the respect of Zelus (while they feel that equality with Protogonus is forever out of reach).

The idea of an inevitable decline from a Golden Age is built into their perception of reality. They see a possible renaissance as a brief bump up in the downward slope to disintegration. Paradoxically, this has motivated them to fight harder than Proteus or Zelus for the survival of the game - if they do not, after all, they will never be able to equal the achievements of the past. This tension between hope and fatalism is what makes them cynics and contributors. The Lotophagi will leave when they feel they have earned a place with Proteus and Zelus, or when the costs associated with their commitment become greater than their chances of success.
Unibot
31-03-2009, 18:31
The idea of an inevitable decline from a Golden Age is built into their perception of reality. They see a possible renaissance as a brief bump up in the downward slope to disintegration. Paradoxically, this has motivated them to fight harder than Proteus or Zelus for the survival of the game - if they do not, after all, they will never be able to equal the achievements of the past. This tension between hope and fatalism is what makes them cynics and contributors. The Lotophagi will leave when they feel they have earned a place with Proteus and Zelus, or when the costs associated with their commitment become greater than their chances of success.


I'm going to predict a switch of values coming, in the coming year, with a revival will come a bit of a dethroning of power. The coming generation, the Raleighs, will be taught by the Lotophagi specifically how to play, and live in the world carved by the Thesuses.

Being as important as the Zelsuses or the Proteuses will no longer seem as important. Because they could be seen as one out-of-line, roudy poster on the moderator forum put it, "old relics".
Urgench
31-03-2009, 18:36
I'm going to predict a switch of values coming, in the coming year, with a revival will come a bit of a dethroning of power. The coming generation, the Raleighs, will be taught by the Lotophagi specifically how to play, and live in the world carved by the Thesuses.

Being as important as the Zelsuses or the Proteuses will no longer seem as important. Because they could be seen as one out-of-line, roudy poster on the moderator forum put it, "old relics".



Jesus christ your quoting Minyos now ? I happen to think that some of what you've done here is good but if your looking for inspiration from someone like Minyos who seems to have a serious attitude problem then I don't think anyone wants to play the game Unibot and Minyos are carving out for themselves.

Come on Unibot, be serious. The rantings of foul mouthed malcontents is not a decent rationalisation.
Unibot
31-03-2009, 18:37
Ha.
Unibot
31-03-2009, 18:38
I don't think anyone wants to play the game Unibot and Minyos are carving out for themselves

That in paticular made me laugh. Yeah, me and Minyos sitting in a tree....
imported_Florida
01-04-2009, 07:59
I've defined the generations by the version that they were founded ( http://www.nationstates.net/HISTORY ). I soon stopped counting and doing any analysis after the first 7,600. Of those first three generations, 27 have continued to log in often enough to avoid passing (though many have been refounded). I had a couple of nations lost in the time that inactive nations were purged after 14 days of no-login.

So, a couple of dozen players have continued to log into a game with no goals. Since 2002.
Unibot
01-04-2009, 17:08
Very interesting, imported Flordia.
imported_Florida
01-04-2009, 17:18
Very interesting, imported Flordia.

Just Florida, thank you. Jolt had someone registered with that name when they imported NationStates into their forums.
Unibot
30-04-2009, 04:03
*UPDATED*

Census Data
Ruccola
30-04-2009, 22:00
This is really fascinating! Thanks for the analysis, Unibot.

Well, I guess it depends on the person. I'm guessing the initial activity would tend to win out, but nobody's going to be a perfect match in any of the categories. People who had more than one immersion would probably be more complex and less definable.
I actually agree with this, though as you said before, the immersion factor plays a major role in shaping one's conceptions of the game. Looking back at my own experience, having left the game right after the forums were migrated to Jolt (does anyone remember when that happened?) and returning almost exactly a year ago, my gameplay and experiences with the General and NationStates forums were more or less defined by my initial activity. However, since I didn't really involve myself with the II forum until my return, my experience there has been coloured by more recent trends.