NationStates Jolt Archive

That's right, while the old version is still available at the old location (as well as in a new location: http://www.pipian.com/nationstates/gdpcalc.php), I've done a bit of work to update it and use some of the more recent feed additions to update it to a beta of version 2 (http://www.pipian.com/nationstates/gdpcalc2.php)

Namely:

- Defense spending (and other expenditures) come straight from the percentages on the feeds, rather than manually input.
- The GDP per capita figures for each economic ranking have been tweaked slightly after examining recent CIA World Factbook numbers.
- The way the budget works has been overhauled. It no longer depends on the Civil Rights freedoms, but rather (and this seems more accurate to me) by applying the tax rate in the feed to the total GDP of the country (only compared the revenues of the US budget with its GDP, but it came out to ~20%, the average tax rate in the US).
- The budget has been split into revenues (based strictly on the tax rate and GDP) and expenditures (based on revenues and economic freedom). It might be a bit questionable (since there are more variables), but the more powerful the economy, the more of a deficit you'll run between revenue and expenditures, ranging from 75% of revenues (Imploded) to 120% of revenues (Frightening). I may tweak this based on other factors, in the long run. Most countries (especially economic powers) do appear to run a deficit, according to the CIA World Factbook.

Here are the equations used:

GDP Per Capita ($):

"Imploded" => 100
"Basket Case" => 500
"Struggling" => 1000
"Fragile" => 2000
"Weak" => 3000
"Developing" => 5000
"Fair" => 7500
"Reasonable" => 10000
"Good" => 12500
"Strong" => 15000
"Very Strong" => 20000
"Thriving" => 25000
"Powerhouse" => 30000
"All-Consuming" => 40000
"Frightening" => 50000

Expenditure Multiplier:

"Imploded" => 0.75
"Basket Case" => 0.80
"Struggling" => 0.85
"Fragile" => 0.89
"Weak" => 0.93
"Developing" => 0.97
"Fair" => 1
"Reasonable" => 1.03
"Good" => 1.06
"Strong" => 1.09
"Very Strong" => 1.11
"Thriving" => 1.13
"Powerhouse" => 1.15
"All-Consuming" => 1.17
"Frightening" => 1.2

GDP = GDP-per-Capita * Population
Revenues = GDP * Tax Rate
Expenditures = Revenues * Expenditure Multiplier

Opinions? Thoughts?

It's still simple as I would rather like it to be realistic. Yes, it's still subjective obviously, and subject to debate as to its accuracy (I mean, after all, it's kinda hard to have an economic slowdown in this game) but the subjectivity isn't exactly random, as the multipliers are roughly based on real world figures.

I like it better than the older one. IT's still slightly unrealistic... but then so is NS.

Population: 7,259,000,000
Economy: Frightening
GDP per Capita: $50,000
GDP: $362,950,000,000,000
Percentage of Budget Spent on Defense: 72%
Defense Expenditures: $131,707,296,000,000

ZOMG! :eek:

I have no budget because I have no income tax... ... ... ...

I still like NSEconomy and NSTracker better than this one.

I still like NSEconomy and NSTracker better than this one.Agreed. They both give my government revenue even at 0% income tax, which is realistic because it's not like income tax is the only form of tax revenue.

Hmm, that's true.

Probably something keyed to population rather than income tax, for duties and so forth.

I'm still contemplating expanding it, but it depends on finding realistic figures (imports/exports per capita likely) for various countries, and then finding realistic flat duty costs.

Also remember that the randomize=1 option will still randomize the figures some to make it more realistic. I should probably add some options to just randomize the tax/expenditure ratios though...

And remember, when you're dealing with countries with as many people in them as there are in the world today... Well, you're not going to really get realistic figures =P

Going to put Export info, which seems to be more closely related to Social Equality spending, strong Civil Rights, and strong Economies. For example:

Germany: $12,300 per capita
US: $3,100 per capita
China: $600 per capita
Japan: $4,100 per capita
France: $7,200 per capita
Italy: $6,000 per capita
UK: $6,000 per capita
Belgium: $25,000 per capita
Sweden: $14,000 per capita
India: $70 per capita
Iraq: $600 per capita
Cuba: $200 per capita
East Timor: $10 per capita

It would seem to favor: a) smaller countries b) with strong economies c) and those with strong social equality spending

However, an inverse population relationship could be problematic for the extremely large population countries.

Still, something like the following might work:

Exports per Capita = (10000/POPULATION*SOCIALEQUALITY) + (POPULATION*Economy Freedom Modifier)

As for Imports:

Germany: $9,800 per capita
US: $5,800 per capita
China: $480 per capita
Japan: $3,500 per capita
France: $7,800 per capita
Italy: $6,400 per capita
UK: $8,000 per capita
Belgium: $25,500 per capita
Sweden: $11,500 per capita
India: $100 per capita
Iraq: $730 per capita
Cuba: $600 per capita
East Timor: $190 per capita

A similar equation might work for Imports as a result. When I hammer out a good one, I'll post it and put it in.

I might also assume a flat 10% average import duty as well. (No, it'd be pretty difficult to enforce a 'free trade' ruling, but we could always assume the extra amount comes from 'other sources')

Added Exports, Imports and (unannounced) Import Duties added to Revenues.

Here's the equations and data:

Export Multipliers:

"Imploded" => 0.05
"Basket Case" => 0.25
"Struggling" => 0.5
"Fragile" => 0.75
"Weak" => 0.875
"Developing" => 1
"Fair" => 1.125
"Reasonable" => 1.25
"Good" => 1.375
"Strong" => 1.5
"Very Strong" => 1.625
"Thriving" => 1.75
"Powerhouse" => 1.875
"All-Consuming" => 2
"Frightening" => 2.25

Import Multiplier:

"Imploded" => 0.5
"Basket Case" => 0.6
"Struggling" => 0.7
"Fragile" => 0.8
"Weak" => 0.9
"Developing" => 1
"Fair" => 1.1
"Reasonable" => 1.2
"Good" => 1.3
"Strong" => 1.45
"Very Strong" => 1.6
"Thriving" => 1.75
"Powerhouse" => 2
"All-Consuming" => 3
"Frightening" => 4

EXPORT-PER-CAPITA = ln(POPULATION) * (EQUALITY-PERCENTAGE * 10 * Export-Multiplier) + POPULATION / 5000000
IMPORT-PER-CAPITA = ln(POPULATION) * (EQUALITY-PERCENTAGE * 10 * Import-Multiplier) + POPULATION / 5000000

It might not be "fair," but from what I can tell, this would relatively accurately depict exports and imports, even though it means an trade deficit for Weak and below and Powerhouse and above (and an trade surplus between Developing and Thriving)

'Import Duties' are 10% of imports, and added to revenues (if you abide by free-trade, it doesn't explicitly list import duties for what it is, so you can treat the income however you please).

I don't like the assumption about deficits: Some governments try hard to avoid these...

Interesting. I'll give the new version a try.

I don't like the assumption about deficits: Some governments try hard to avoid these...

Neither do I, but I don't like making deficit/surplus statistics out of the blue. It's not like there's a particularly obvious way (straight from the feed) to tell if a country has passed a balanced budget amendment.

Trade surpluses and deficits though are harder to control by the government, so I have a little less compunction to fix that issue.

Really, the only other thing that would be particularly nice is some more dynamic fluctuating information to use as a basis for more realistic economic data. If you look at the other calculators out there, they tend to have rather 'fixed' exchange rates to the dollar. If there was a way to unilaterally determine boom/recession information (difficult without keeping a separate database to 'create' such information) it would be nice, but obviously if it's automated, it's not going to match policy as well.

The other thing I don't like so much is that the algorithm unilaterally punishes communist and Marxist countries (who are more likely to have 'imploded' economies, if only for the fact that they don't allow as much economic freedom) but again, there's really no way to infer that straight from the feed (without giving up the interpretation of the economic indicator as general economic strength, which thus provides more variety).

Basically, the goal of the calculator is to get as realistic a calculation possible (by basing on per-capita calculations based on the feed and then scaling by the population). I'd rather not generate random figures.

The other thing I don't like so much is that the algorithm unilaterally punishes communist and Marxist countries (who are more likely to have 'imploded' economiesNonsense. Anybody who's been playing for any amount of time knows how to wank their economy while keeping everything else where they want it. There's plenty of "Marxist" countries with Frightening economies.

ZOMG! :eek:
SB, as I always said, if you kept your taxes high enough you'd be the largest defense spender on NS (beating out Terri, and maybe even JJR back when he still had a budget).

But since you've already managed to get it down from 100% -- which I'm trying but haven't succeeded at -- that deserves some fair kudos at any rate. -_-

SB, as I always said, if you kept your taxes high enough you'd be the largest defense spender on NS (beating out Terri, and maybe even JJR back when he still had a budget).

But since you've already managed to get it down from 100% -- which I'm trying but haven't succeeded at -- that deserves some fair kudos at any rate. -_-

That's probably true but less impressive as time goes on, due to the tendency of the older, bigger nations to die out over time.

Besides, I've discovered that after a certain point, you seriously have nothing to do with all that defense budget. There are diminishing returns. Spending $500,000 per soldier is not significantly superior to spending $250,000 per soldier. It's a waste, and I like capitalism.

Still, I might keep taxes where it's at, 30% or so right now. :)

That's probably true but less impressive as time goes on, due to the tendency of the older, bigger nations to die out over time.

Besides, I've discovered that after a certain point, you seriously have nothing to do with all that defense budget. There are diminishing returns. Spending $500,000 per soldier is not significantly superior to spending $250,000 per soldier. It's a waste, and I like capitalism.
Quite true. And then there's the point that above about $100 trillion, you're pouring so much money in per soldier that each individual one is more valuable than the tanks or airplanes they're riding in; losing a single one is losing an investment.

Then there's the fact that the number of ships, guns, planes, tanks, and so on that you could buy with all that money is far larger than the number of soldiers and people to operate those ships, guns, planes, etc. you could potentially support while maintaining a strong economy.... so most of it goes to waste.

In fact, the only thing it's remotely useful for is dickwaving, as Rezo/Der Angst so eloquently put it...

The links do not seem to be working...

In fact, the only thing it's remotely useful for is dickwaving, as Rezo/Der Angst so eloquently put it...

But that's useful in itself, in a subjectively defined fictional reality in which perception IS fact...

Amestria: Make sure to read the documentation on the links. In particular, you need to append ?nation=(your nation name) to make either link work.

Everyone else: I agree, it does get ridiculous. But so do thousands of countries each with populations greater than that of the entire world! It is stat-wanking to stick strictly to the numbers the calculator prints out. Everything in moderation. Perhaps I should make a modified calculator that allows for custom specification of population, simply because the populations are so obscenely large nowadays!

I tried following what your documentation says.

I put in:

http://www.pipian.com/nationstates/gdpcalc2.php?nation=(Forgotten Canada)

which the code turned into

http://www.pipian.com/nationstates/gdpcalc2.php?nation=(Forgotten%20Canada)

Which gave the following error:

Warning: domxml_open_mem(): Extra content at the end of the document in /home/pipianc/public_html/nationstates/gdpcalc2.php on line 20

Fatal error: Call to a member function on a non-object in /home/pipianc/public_html/nationstates/gdpcalc2.php on line 22

Some help please?

I tried following what your documentation says.

I put in:

http://www.pipian.com/nationstates/g...ion=(Forgotten Canada)

which the code turned into

http://www.pipian.com/nationstates/g...otten%20Canada)

Which gave the following error:

Warning: domxml_open_mem(): Extra content at the end of the document in /home/pipianc/public_html/nationstates/gdpcalc2.php on line 20

Fatal error: Call to a member function on a non-object in /home/pipianc/public_html/nationstates/gdpcalc2.php on line 22

Some help please?
You simply added an extra "(" to the start of the nation. This (http://www.pipian.com/nationstates/gdpcalc2.php?nation=Forgotten%20Canada) is the fixed link.