NationStates Jolt Archive

I played this game a while ago and couldn't help but notice that most of the "issues" are framed in a way that basically comes down to

liberal = good, reasonable answer
conservative = really stupid, rediculous answer.

for a web game that claims to welcome all opinions this seems to be rather biased.

there ARE resonable, rational conservative points of views too...and they seldom lead to disaster, facism, and utter lunacy...

Ssshh! If anyone finds out then the whole two-party system will come crashing down!

I played this game a while ago and couldn't help but notice that most of the "issues" are framed in a way that basically comes down to

liberal = good, reasonable answer
conservative = really stupid, rediculous answer.

for a web game that claims to welcome all opinions this seems to be rather biased.

there ARE resonable, rational conservative points of views too...and they seldom lead to disaster, facism, and utter lunacy...

Not from what I've seen. Alot of issues that would be considered "liberal" are quite nuts. Have you seen any of the animal rights and environmentalist issues? They'd make Greenpeace piss themselves.

I played this game a while ago and couldn't help but notice that most of the "issues" are framed in a way that basically comes down to

liberal = good, reasonable answer
conservative = really stupid, rediculous answer.

for a web game that claims to welcome all opinions this seems to be rather biased.

there ARE resonable, rational conservative points of views too...and they seldom lead to disaster, facism, and utter lunacy...
This is a general debating forum. Since there are more liberals here (by a US standard anyway), of course liberal rants get a warmer reception.

Speaking of silly remarks though, are you deliberately implying that liberal thinking has something to do with fascism?

I just hate being called a liberal or conservative in debates because my opponents are too stupid to realize that there are other ideologies in the goddamn world. READ A BOOK.

This is a general debating forum. Since there are more liberals here (by a US standard anyway), of course liberal rants get a warmer reception.

Speaking of silly remarks though, are you deliberately implying that liberal thinking has something to do with fascism?

I think Floom's saying that some people think (American or European)conservatism has something to do with fascism, which is utter bullshit to anyone who knows anything about fascism and European politics.

Write some issues yourself then. You can do that you know.

I'm relatively new here, and that's how it looks to me sometimes. Only problem is that the liberals see it just the other way.

The real problem is with people's condescending and biased attitudes, no matter which ideology. I try to take each post on its merits and not fall into the trap of dismissing someone's point of view once I know their political orientation.

There are some very good posts made by people with whom I may not often agree. I've noticed that patience and respect toward others is rewarded here, just as it is in real life.

I played this game a while ago and couldn't help but notice that most of the "issues" are framed in a way that basically comes down to

liberal = good, reasonable answer
conservative = really stupid, rediculous answer.

for a web game that claims to welcome all opinions this seems to be rather biased.

there ARE resonable, rational conservative points of views too...and they seldom lead to disaster, facism, and utter lunacy...

Most of the time bost sides are rather silly ("lets turn the [national animal here] into cute, loving pets...AAaargh!!!" vs. "We shud just shoot the damn critters").

I played this game a while ago and couldn't help but notice that most of the "issues" are framed in a way that basically comes down to

liberal = good, reasonable answer
conservative = really stupid, rediculous answer.


I've submitted a few issues (none approved yet, but I have hopes :D), and I tried my best to make all sides seem as loony and radical as possible.

Although on one issue I included an option that appears at first to take a sensible middle course - but the effects are disastrous.

Of course, if you're interpreting the effects of "liberal" options as good, shouldn't that tell you something about your true political beliefs?

:p

I just hate being called a liberal or conservative in debates because my opponents are too stupid to realize that there are other ideologies in the goddamn world. READ A BOOK.
LOL

I think Floom's saying that some people think (American or European)conservatism has something to do with fascism, which is utter bullshit to anyone who knows anything about fascism and European politics.
Oh, ok. I got exactly the opposite out of it. I guess it wasn't phrased too well.
Other than that, I completely agree. I've never actually seen anyone equate conservativism with fascism though.

Oh, ok. I got exactly the opposite out of it. I guess it wasn't phrased too well.
Other than that, I completely agree. I've never actually seen anyone equate conservativism with fascism though.

Oh man, I've talked to some major boneheads in my time. Here's the argument:

"Conservatives are right-wing. FASCISM is right-wing. Therefore, conservatives are closer to fascism ideologically!"

That's enough to make me have an aneurysm.

As to the original question, never noticed it. Most of them have all silly answers, the game is witten that way deliberately to exagerate the extremes. Hmm, perhaps if there were a strong conservative bias on the part of the game's designer then you might have a point, resonable seems extreme to him. I suspect more likely the answer lies with you, the issues are neutural and you are so wacked out to the left that the wacky leftish positions seem reasonable to you.

Kiddong aside, the game issues were designed in large part (the ones after the initial batch) by the p[players, with an editing committee acting to ensure that all view points were equally (dis)respected. It has been suspected by some of us that the editing committee had a bias but none of us has bothered to see if it is really true afaik. If you go here : http://forums.jolt.co.uk/forumdisplay.php?f=1232 you can look at the list of all the issues in the game and see if it is true. Let me know if you think there is a real bias though will you?

I don't know, I end up dismissing many issues these days because they are too extreme on both ends. The "liberal" option kills my economy and drives my taxes even higher, and the "conservative" boosts my economy but is usually rather evil. And both are usually crazy.

I personally don't see a major bias, except perhaps in how extreme a nation gets by just being right-of-center. But I find things like the Libertarian Police State(love your freedoms, or fear the black vans, damnit!) and Coroporate Bordello amusing.

EDIT: Okay WTF is going on!?! I just read through my nation stats again... and somewhere between 2 days ago and today, without me answering any issues, I went from having a reasonable private sector, to stamping out 14 year old boys selling lemonade. I know this is off topic, but has anyone else seen this?

Write some issues yourself then. You can do that you know.

How do you submit an issue?

If people are submitting new issues I'm not getting them, for some reason I keep getting the same issues over and over again.

How do you submit an issue?

If people are submitting new issues I'm not getting them, for some reason I keep getting the same issues over and over again.

I don't think many people write new issues. I tried one once, but apparently it wasn't good enough. I thought it was good :( Something inspired by a show called Ghost Hunters or something...

EDIT: Okay WTF is going on!?! I just read through my nation stats again... and somewhere between 2 days ago and today, without me answering any issues, I went from having a reasonable private sector, to stamping out 14 year old boys selling lemonade. I know this is off topic, but has anyone else seen this?
You're a UN member, so perhaps the latest UN resolution was miscoded.

Oh man, I've talked to some major boneheads in my time. Here's the argument:

"Conservatives are right-wing. FASCISM is right-wing. Therefore, conservatives are closer to fascism ideologically!"

That's enough to make me have an aneurysm.
I'd probably laugh my ass off, but if you're a conservative, I can appreciate why you'd respond violently.

"You can't fly. Rocks can't fly. Ergo, you're a rock."

Hahahaha! Some people have all the brainpower of a retarded slug :p

How do you submit an issue?

If people are submitting new issues I'm not getting them, for some reason I keep getting the same issues over and over again.Look under nationstates > nuts&bolts > got issues or click previous link for answers to issues questions. Certain types of governments get certain issues and other government types other issues, so the actual number of issues you are likely to see with a single nation run consistantly is small compared to the 200+ issues in the game. If you want to see more issues, create a new nation and run it entirely unlike your current one - or just check out the compiled list of issues after noting that it is a spoiler.

"You can't fly. Rocks can't fly. Ergo, you're a rock."
Damn, I never noticed ;)

Ssshh! If anyone finds out then the whole two-party system will come crashing down!

There's a 2 party system? Where? Where?

It seems to me that it is all one big melting pot of crap, with little or no actual governing. Just posturing as if they were governing.

Meh. Both sides have their geniuses and their idiots. The only thing is that geniuses are usually more soft-spoken than the idiots, so you usually only see the idiotic side of their respected parties. Same way with religious beliefs. Same way with any belief, really.

last time I played this game (about year ago), I actually proposed a few questions, but none of them were "approved"...maybe I just didn't stick around long enough...I just got pissed that by choosing the least destructive option available made me into some kind of bland, inoffensive country with nothing really works, but everyone's happy, and taxes pay for everything. :rolleyes:

It just seems to me that if you choose the conservative option, you end up with a "Barren wasteland" with "corporate corruption" and all kinds of social ills.

while the liberal option gives you a near-utipia with a high tax rate.

when I say "consrevative" i'm not talking about Republicans, and when I say "liberal" I'm not talking about Democrats. I see conservativism, and limited government involvement, and from how the game seems to work, it looks like the game creator (or at least the people who write questions and decide the outcomes), that unless the government is heavily involved in regulating business, redistributing wealth, and social engineering, your country just goes to hell.

I do see that there's sometimes a extreme and rediculous liberal option in the issues as well, but the only "reasonable" option of the three (the one that's not laughable) is tilted towards liberalism.

I played this game a while ago and couldn't help but notice that most of the "issues" are framed in a way that basically comes down to

liberal = good, reasonable answer
conservative = really stupid, rediculous answer.

for a web game that claims to welcome all opinions this seems to be rather biased.

there ARE resonable, rational conservative points of views too...and they seldom lead to disaster, facism, and utter lunacy...
You do realise that the game is based upon the Jenifer Goverment book and was created by Max Barry, who is left wing don't you?

You do realise that the game is based upon the Jenifer Goverment book and was created by Max Barry, who is left wing don't you?It isn't and Max doesn't admit to it. I guess if you consider anyone who is not a die hard Randian as a left winger, you can call Max a left-winger, but that's a pretty large group.

Ssshh! If anyone finds out then the whole two-party system will come crashing down!
There are TWO PARTIES?!?!?!

You do realise that the game is based upon the Jenifer Goverment book and was created by Max Barry, who is left wing don't you?

yeah but they both claim to be fair, open-minded, and NOT left-wing nuts, but
"moderates"

I played this game a while ago and couldn't help but notice that most of the "issues" are framed in a way that basically comes down to

liberal = good, reasonable answer
conservative = really stupid, rediculous answer.

for a web game that claims to welcome all opinions this seems to be rather biased.

there ARE resonable, rational conservative points of views too...and they seldom lead to disaster, facism, and utter lunacy...

I stopped answering the issues because I know that if I do, I will go from Capitalist Paradise with 0% tax, to Fascist Dictator named "Nancy". The LEAST these players could have done was this:

liberal choice: +3 Civil Rights, +1 Politcal Freedoms
conservative choice: +3 economy, -2 Civil Rights
medium: +1 Civil Rights, +1 Politcal Freedoms

Perhaps Liberal and Conservative ideas get equal treatment, but as a subtle liberal yourself, you simply find the Conservative ideas to be completely ridiculous?

I don't think that conservative choice gives you less civil rights...

its like with freedom of speach...neither view would take that right away, they both believe that you should be allowed to say whatever you want. However the liberal view is that you shouldn't have to suffer the consequences of voicing your oppinion...while the conservative veiw is that if your view is unpopular, than you SHOULD be open to whatever the response to your views is....

sort of like - you may have the right to say whatever you want, but there is no "right to be heard".

*snip*
EDIT: Okay WTF is going on!?! I just read through my nation stats again... and somewhere between 2 days ago and today, without me answering any issues, I went from having a reasonable private sector, to stamping out 14 year old boys selling lemonade. I know this is off topic, but has anyone else seen this?

You just got screwed by our wonderful, liberalist U.N. Seriously, if a NS2 came out with some kind of war programming, the U.N. would be squashed in a second.

while the conservative veiw is that if your view is unpopular, than you SHOULD be open to whatever the response to your views is....

sort of like - you may have the right to say whatever you want, but there is no "right to be heard".

Well I think you have the right to say what you want, and to be heard..if someone is listening..But just as well you should be open to whatever the response to your views is. Whether it is a large responce or small, chaotic or orderly, offended or encouraged..

EDIT: Okay WTF is going on!?! I just read through my nation stats again... and somewhere between 2 days ago and today, without me answering any issues, I went from having a reasonable private sector, to stamping out 14 year old boys selling lemonade. I know this is off topic, but has anyone else seen this? YES. My nation's private industry is very precarious, something which I need to sort out. It went through a proper socialist era once… something I do not wish to repeat.

Perhaps Liberal and Conservative ideas get equal treatment, but as a subtle liberal yourself, you simply find the Conservative ideas to be completely ridiculous?

no...that's definately not it. I'm not a liberal, subtle or otherwise. I just see the conservative option given in most of the issues is rediculous, and the consequences are always extreme, while the liberal option is the one that gives you the most progress. Its true that sometimes there are TWO liberal options are provided and one of them is also silly, but for the most part, its the "moderate" (a.k.a. socialist) option that gives you the best consequences. I don't think the conservative point of view is rediculous, just the option provided by the game and the way its handled is completely rediculous.

also, unlike your response suggests, I don't believe that just because the game says conservatives are completely rediculous, this makes the view true in the real world. It just illustrates the biases of the game designer and the peeople that write the questions.

Well I think you have the right to say what you want, and to be heard..if someone is listening..But just as well you should be open to whatever the response to your views is. Whether it is a large responce or small, chaotic or orderly, offended or encouraged..


my point exactly. If you choose to say something unpopular, and people choose to stop listening...you end up losing your "audience" and if you're a public figure, this could end up costing you your career...I don't think anyone should be protected from that. You can say it all you want....but if noone wants to listen, and if financial backers decide to stop supporting you because it may not be a wise investment you can't then go out and cry "foul"...(well...I suppose you could go stand on a street corner and cry foul all you want, but you can't demand that everyone listen to you).

if people want to listen they listen, but you don't have the RIGHT to an audience...only the right to express your oppinion.

my latest "issue"

Far-right-wing Nazi supporters plan to stage a rally in the city center tomorrow, giving voice to their violent, racist views.

doesn't that sounds a LITTLE like equating Nazism and facism with "the Right"? I think I'm insulted.

and of course options will either result in Nazis running rampant through the streets or government sensorship and policital prisoners. :rolleyes:

(that's what happened last time I answered that question). If this is supposed to be a "real world" model of how government works, it fails.

Well..actually NS is just meant to make fun and be a big mockery of the real world..

I just hate being called a liberal or conservative in debates because my opponents are too stupid to realize that there are other ideologies in the goddamn world. READ A BOOK.

Hear hear!

It isn't and Max doesn't admit to it. I guess if you consider anyone who is not a die hard Randian as a left winger, you can call Max a left-winger, but that's a pretty large group.
Well beign a Communist/Socialist myself...

You just got screwed by our wonderful, liberalist U.N. Seriously, if a NS2 came out with some kind of war programming, the U.N. would be squashed in a second.

Yes... because we all know the UN can, if it wishes, target a nonchalant nation such as myself and, like a sniper, kill its private sector. And we all know there are no conservative nations in the UN. At all. We're all Stalinists. Every single one of us. We're all part of the International Communist Conspiracy(tm). Don't be fooled.

... I don't think the UN did this to me.

Well..actually NS is just meant to make fun and be a big mockery of the real world..
iQuote. All the options on the issues are really extreme and hence, ridiculous. Maybe the more conservative point of view seems especially so, but only to those old-fashioned people who condemn violence and want everyone to live in peace and harmony. Crazy. :rolleyes:

Anyway...don't expect the issues to be all that serious and similar to real life.

my latest "issue"



doesn't that sounds a LITTLE like equating Nazism and facism with "the Right"? I think I'm insulted.

and of course options will either result in Nazis running rampant through the streets or government sensorship and policital prisoners. :rolleyes:

(that's what happened last time I answered that question). If this is supposed to be a "real world" model of how government works, it fails.

you know...it just occurred to me that the "Nazi" party was an acronym for "the National SOCIALIST" party...so there it is...for some reason media and academia are always trying to identify the Nazi party with the far right...but they are a SOCIALIST party...the government controls industry and so on...Also, Hitler came to power in the 30's with the help of the German Comminusts, who played a part in subverting the man that was actually ELECTED (Hindenberg) in TWO elections, and subsequently burning down the Riiechstaag.

you know...it just occurred to me that the "Nazi" party was an acronym for "the National SOCIALIST" party...so there it is...for some reason media and academia are always trying to identify the Nazi party with the far right...but they are a SOCIALIST party...the government controls industry and so on...Also, Hitler came to power in the 30's with the help of the German Comminusts, who played a part in subverting the man that was actually ELECTED (Hindenberg) in TWO elections, and subsequently burning down the Riiechstaag.
Please read some history. The word socialist was added into the name to make it more friendly sounding to the german working class in the hope they would make exactly the same leap you just did and so give it their vote. The communists did not help Hitler come to power, he used fear of them coming to power as a political tool and scapegoated them for his own advantage. "Left" and "right" are determined by economic policy first so any party that reduces rights of workers in favour of owners is right and vice versa. That is why the Nazi party are defined as right wing.

And on top of that, the guy who burnt down the Riechstaag was a framed dutch communist.

Please read some history. The word socialist was added into the name to make it more friendly sounding to the german working class in the hope they would make exactly the same leap you just did and so give it their vote. The communists did not help Hitler come to power, he used fear of them coming to power as a political tool and scapegoated them for his own advantage. "Left" and "right" are determined by economic policy first so any party that reduces rights of workers in favour of owners is right and vice versa. That is why the Nazi party are defined as right wing.

I HAVE read lots of history, but the problem with READING history is that history is written mostly by left-leaning "intellectuals". So...if we actually look at what went on under the Nazi regime rather than what a bunch of libersals SAID happened we see a different picture.

1) adding the word "Socialist" to your party is designed to "sound more friendly" if you're a communist. I, for one, don't think it makes a party sound more friendly at all.

2) the government controled industry and the means of production - isn't that like page 1 of Carl Marx's manifesto? (although he does refer to the government as "the people")

3) the government decided who would be allowed to head the industries, and actually get rich. WIthout the government's approval a person could neither start a business or get the resorces needed to run it. That sounds like government-controlled distribution of wealth.

4) The Nazi party had its greatest popular support (that is, the little people that vote...not the people up top that controlled the party that you always hear about) among the Communist radicals...that's the people that even the Socialists in Germany thought were too far to the left.

The Nazi party didn't just SOUND socialist, it WAS socialist.