NationStates Jolt Archive

One of my puppet nations resided in 'south pacific' and after a comment i made of the rmb about who the new delegate was going to be i was ejected and banned from the region. Since the delegate was not a native one and took over the region by force i believed that they were not aloud to ban me. correct me if im wrong.

1 out of 100+ doesn't constitutes a griefing, but I believe he has to unban a native immediately. I am not sure is he's an invader, though. I am not even sure if you are a native :P

First, I will try to define "native" and "non-native".

A "native" is a nation that resides in the region long-term, where the owner of that nation considers that region to be home. (I'm not sure what the judgement is for players with many puppets and who keep several puppets in several places long-term. Carinthe and Crazy Girl: I'm looking at you, here. :p ) If a native nation grants a UN endorsement to any nation, then the endorsement, itself, is called a "native endorsement".

A "non-native" is the catch-all designation for any nations that aren't natives. The "native" and "non-native" sets are all-inclusive and mutually-exclusive; a nation must be one or the other, not both, and not neither. Spies residing in a region long-term and working for an outside force are not natives. If a non-native nation grants a UN endorsement to any nation, then the endorsement, itself, is called a "non-native endorsement".

...

Next, I will define "Internally-Elected Delegate" and "Invader Delegate".

An Internally-Elected Delegate is a Delegate who has more native endorsements than any other nation in the region. The Delegate, himself/herself might be a non-native, but has the greatest support from natives.

An Invader Delegate is a Delegate who holds the position only because one or more non-native endorsements keeps that Delegate in power. The Delegate might be a native, but if someone else has more native endorsements than the Delegate, then the Delegate is an invader Delegate.

This is important, so I'll spell out the implications clearly: It's possible for a "native" to be an "Invader Delegate" if someone else in the region has more native endorsements. It's possible for a "non-native" to be an "Internally-Elected Delegate" if that nation has more native endorsements than anyone else.

The rights of a native of an invaded region is dependent upon whether or not the nation, itself, is native. The limitations on the actions of a Delegate are dependent ONLY upon whether or not the Delegate is an "Invader Delegate" or an "Internally-Elected Delegate", according to the definitions above.

Invader Delegates may not permanently ban natives from the region. Invader Delegates must distribute any new password to all of the native nations. Invader Delegates may not mass-eject natives.

--The Modified Democratic States of Cogitation
"Think about it for a moment."
NationStates Game Moderator

I believe that if the delegate in question is non-native, and that if your puppet is by definition, native -- then from my understanding, Yes, it is against the Rules. But you will need to wait on an official ruling on that one from the Moderators. They are the ones who make the final decisions.

I belive since this is an in-game issue, it should be filed from the GHP. Then again, I dont see something that looks appropriate (maybe they should add an 'I've been greifed!' right below the UN Multi Suspect) so I guess this should be sufficient.

However, I think the mods will need your puppet nation's name (if it isn't what you are on with now) to help you fully... not positive on that though.

ingame stuff goes through the GHP, there's always the "other" option if you don't know where to file it under.

now, are you completly sure you are a native and not an invader/defender puppet just hanging there as spy or observer and now trying to use the mods to get back at those who took over? I see someone i the egion calling you Evil, with capital....maybe you are the invader Evil and all bad doing?

Just asking, cause it's relevant to determine if this delegate is really breaking the rules or not.

I belive since this is an in-game issue, it should be filed from the GHP. Then again, I dont see something that looks appropriate (maybe they should add an 'I've been greifed!' right below the UN Multi Suspect) so I guess this should be sufficient.

However, I think the mods will need your puppet nation's name (if it isn't what you are on with now) to help you fully... not positive on that though.

Just a note: When in doubt (in the GHP), file under 'Other: Response to a Moderator'.

yeah i am evil and all bad doing the invader but my puppet 'ummm yeah' is not an invader puppet and i keep it in south pacific. surely this means im a native?

does this need to be posted in GH then?

And I'm sure it had nothing to do with your recent occupation of this same region together with Groznia, and getting back at the current delegate, who beat you two...


Yes, getting help page.

no it wasnt because i have used that puppet before in that region just to chat and get away from invader stuff. I am sort of getting back at the delegate because he lied to me but i still think it is beyond the rules to kick out a native of that region that wasnt invading or being agressive towards the region.

9 hours ago The Kingdom of Ummm yeah omg your having trevor as your delegate?!? hahaha i have a feeling this region is going to fall!


umm...yeah.

So he believes the region is more vulnerable with said Delegate? That's proof that he is involved in and/or planning a raid on said region? Only in your Courts maybe.

CrazyGirl you're getting paranoid.

It is actually possible for raider persons to have puppets in other regions that are not involved in any raid. Those rules do not only apply to your Defender kinfolk.

Or maybe you and your Defender friends made a mistake and accidentally turned raider while believing yourselves to be defending a region that in fact, didn't need defending in the first place.

And that is why they at first claimed themselves in the WFE they took over South Pacific?

Also, I've had it happen myself I had puppets in regions that were invaded and those got kicked out, even those that were active on the RMB and all, but did not count as native. Ask Mala about anti rowling, he was lucky that puppet was mine, and not a real native.

Delegacy celebrations or the instigation of a new regime. Often Delegates in such regions that have no Founders bring their own friends immediately into power, I've seen it many times.

How are puppets who you use for no other region not considered natives?

how easy isn't it to create a whole bunch of puppets, move them to founderless regions, and check them once in a while and post then, claiming them to be natives.

Incredibly easy, but there aren't always malicious motives to that, often it can be time constraints that affect your ability to play NS.

Besides, it isn't just raiders who can be guilty of such things, RL circumstances that prevent you being 100% active with all nations you have shouldn't be something that you can be punished for.

ah yes...

invader takes over region, even claiming so in wfe
moves in puppet after take over
now claims it was a native..

google cache (http://64.233.183.104/search?q=cache:HcC-OSEVbDgJ:www.nationstates.net/cgi-bin/index.cgi/-1/page%3Ddisplay_region/region%3Dsouth_pacific/start%3D50++site:www.nationstates.net+nationstates+%22Ummm+yeah%22&hl=nl)

Proof of this action is where? It's fine to say it happened but you have to prove it also.

Defenders do the same thing, my query is simple here, if Defenders come in to "liberate" a region and endorse their own Delegate, is that not an invasion? You claim to be doing it as a liberation but in fact you take control of the region, for however a short amount of time it is.

Also if you endorse the native Delegate, is that a native endorsement?

Perhaps while "defending" you are in fact becoming replicas of the raiders you are trying to stop.

Please don't respond to this with some "but it's not for the same cause" or "it's for a good cause" arguement, what cause you're doing it for doesn't matter if you're doing the same thing, cause is idealogical, just because you see your cause as just doesn't mean everyone else will.

I.E Population Control in the PRC (Peoples Republic of China), many would consider that unethical, especially the way they supposedly get rid of unauthorised pregnancies, yet women who have abortions are basically doing the exact same thing.

NOTE: I'd like to point out here (due to the fact that my posts are becoming ever more raiding friendly) that I am neutral, I just have mixed views on everything, in this case I believe the defenders made a bad mistake moving in when they were not needed.

This little argument moved to Gameplay, since it seems that Mod input is unlikely and unnecessary.

There is no difference between moving a bunch of UN nation is to defend, or move in bunch of UN nations to invade. The motive is different, but not the method. In game rules, there is absolutely no difference.

Thank you, so in gaming terms, defenders are in fact invading the region they are "liberating", nice little wake up call.

By the way Hardcore Smurphs, your recruiting Telegram is pretty good ;)

pompey, that's nothing new, I myself have said more than once we're all invaders anyways.

also...you neutral?

Yeah I'm neutral, long history of raider heritage as is probably mentioned somewhere in the vastness of the ADN Forums, but my own region is a neutral at this time.

Glad to see you agree with me, ah finally, another defender that I like :)

*Gets CG a drink*