NationStates Jolt Archive

As a public service, I am reposting the XML screen of this region (and will create a thread in Gameplay entitled USA with this info.)

Editors note -- spaces inbetween nations conform with NS guidelines on preventing spam postings.

The nations listed following "<NATIONS>" below are ranked in order of their longevity. An interesting observation here -- I see that the nation "Data X" (which has been calling for The DEN invaders to leave the region) has been here longer than the DEN delegate "Oppressed America"...

Have a nice day.
--------------


- <REGIONINFO>
* <NAME>USA</NAME>
* <FACTBOOK>I have assumed the delegacy and will be setting up a Regional Government. All nations must present their identity to me, endorse me or face immediate expulsion. This is region has now been annexed by The DEN. Long live The Glorious and Mighty DEN! A new system has been set up. All nations, especially those with UN status must register at : http://governor.proboards39.com/index.cgi?</FACTBOOK>
* <NUMNATIONS>76</NUMNATIONS>
* <NATIONS>the_red_sun_and_utopia: common_enemies:reaganstan: roadside_bombing:gravity_co:tim_allen_fans:arserica:blitzmakker: thiede-:googlygoogly:edorkiness:bradley_bee: the_three_bears:aurelius_augustin: richard_milhous_nixon:chuckeria:thieda: hysteric_mania:renoo_911:king_george_ll: bigss75:junaban:razor_blazor:--amerika--:captain_red: latsyrk outer_drasniae:rubidia12:moon-ducks: yndoreon:trial_lawyer: data_x:biggles_the_owl:k_dawgs:flaming_power: oppressed_america:ballstien: lord_duchyness:saldin:america_10:john_bonello: red_sox_freedom:monastic_land:six_of_one: the_clucking_bell:the_homelanders: the_stephens: bacon_eggs_and_chips:onding:dorf_the_mighty: berylzee: muskratt peaceability:grippsholm:henry_iii: ambivila:usa_territories:flubs:free_usa:estayland: jesioneka:smalltimeloser:sigo_omerta: hcm_constanta:sydneyaustralia:caribanaitan: dodger_blue:brightshadows:hockeynutville
pavane: catatoniation:chi_chinitza:sinatra_sock:ht750: young_men_with_woman:the_religion</NATIONS>
* <DELEGATE>oppressed_america</DELEGATE>
* <DELEGATEVOTES>12</DELEGATEVOTES>
* <FOUNDER>america_bg</FOUNDER>
* </REGIONINFO>

The DEN = :eek:

Normal People = :sniper:

:eek: :sniper:

:)

What does time in a region have to do with who has control of said region? OPA was elected and is the current delegate. If you were to have followed the entire series of events you would notice that nations of USA elected OPA as well as OPA having help from The DEN. I do not understand why this is such a big deal, other than The DEN has pulled off another crash and this time had the help of the locals to pull it off. On another note I find it inexcusable that a nation that has nothing at stake in this dispute is making statements such as this...
43 minutes ago The Holy Empire of The Religion
" The Republic of HT750 " that is a lie. There are more rules then the F.A.Q. alone. Not that The DEN is known for following them, any-way ...

Defenders are just that, groups of players who enter the region to un-seat an * invader * delegate and give the region back to the Natives. Please do not try to say it is any different. You do not dictate to other players exactly what the rules mean, do not try it again. "

That to me is personal threat from person to another and I call on the MODS of this game to deal with this as soon as possible. Nowhere in any posts have I tried to "dictate" what the rules mean...I use the FAQ as that is the first document new players are pointed to to help them with this game.

For an update on the current situation in the region USA, view the following thread in NS Moderation entitled What Happened in the USA Region:

http://forums2.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=377472

In short, the DEN invaders have been deleted for rules violations.

Aye, and the invaders were fourty some nations behind the defenders and natives anyway. Native rule restored.

Just because you trick the natives into endorsing you doesn't mean you become a native yourself. :P

HT750, I couldn't really understand your post, but don't see any threats in it. :confused:

Regardless of whether the delegate was native or invader, he did nothing that deserves deletion. Raiding is legal, you know, and getting natives to endorse you doesnt make it illegal. The defenders were only able to enter because the delegate was deleted and couldnt eject them. The whole situation makes no sense.

Of course I am well aware of all of that, Praetonia, and would certainly go to bat for any rule-abiding invader that is wrongly deleted.

I was under the impression that there was rule-breaking involved? Or has no reason yet been given?

<FACTBOOK>I have assumed the delegacy and will be setting up a Regional Government. All nations must present their identity to me, endorse me or face immediate expulsion. This is region has now been annexed by The DEN. Long live The Glorious and Mighty DEN! A new system has been set up. All nations, especially those with UN status must register at : http://governor.proboards39.com/index.cgi?</FACTBOOK>

Highlighted portion of the excerpt above (from the XML screen made of USA by Nolaerie Storage Unit -- see thread post #1) is my emphasis. In that same XML screen, the now deleted nation of Oppressed America is listed as the UN delegate.

As far as I know, NS Moderation has not issued a ruling for the rest of us to see. It is my humble non-Mod opinion that requiring natives to present one's identity in a founderless region and in addition to an obvious non-Native delegate is a violation of NS rules.

This is however just my opinion and like the rest of you am awaiting the good Moderators when they have time and they care to explain the situation for us.

XML of November 13, 2004:<NATIONS>the_red_sun_and_utopia:common_enemies:reaganstan:red_sox_freedom:
roadside_bombing:john_bonello:gravity_co:tim_allen_fans:arserica:blitzmakker:
grunge_music_rebels:thiede-:googlygoogly:new_lucerne:edorkiness:bradley_bee:
the_three_bears:wild_wood:goawayordie:aurelius_augustin:richard_milhous_nixon:
chuckeria:thieda:chr1st:hysteric_mania:renoo_911:sotarian:currsniggit:king_george_ll:
bigss75:junaban:razor_blazor:the_flock_of_sheep:roswellcheerland:--amerika--:
captain_red:latsyrk:outer_drasniae:usa_territories:rubidia12:moon-ducks:
yndoreon:new_keam:trial_lawyer:data_x:chihuahuaville:biggles_the_owl:
trelandia:k_dawgs:flaming_power:andohnesia:united_scotts-irish</NATIONS>

Ballotonia

Thanks Ballotonia! -- XML of November 13, 2004

Ballotonia, the supreme archivist of NationStates :)

Of course I am well aware of all of that, Praetonia, and would certainly go to bat for any rule-abiding invader that is wrongly deleted.

I was under the impression that there was rule-breaking involved? Or has no reason yet been given?

I was Oppressed America and I was deleted, for no apparent reason, other than the fact I was perhaps too succesful. I pride myself with the fact I kicked you out a few minutes before update a few days ago, which was really a great load of fun. ;)

I am tired of being deleted for no reason and people avoiding our threads and not giving replies. The Atlantic thread is the best example of this. We have waited a moderator reply for perhaps 1-2 weeks now. Very annoying.

I just hope I will get at least an answer from the moderators as to why Grippsholm was deleted,

Just because you trick the natives into endorsing you doesn't mean you become a native yourself.

As a matter of fact, PH, it does. Having the majority (or something like that: majority, 2/3, 3/4, 7/8) of native UN endorsements does, in fact, make you a native delegate.

If I were provided another link to the rules that Cogitation assured me were in effect, I could point out the specific clause.

As a matter of fact, PH, it does. Having the majority (or something like that: majority, 2/3, 3/4, 7/8) of native UN endorsements does, in fact, make you a native delegate.

If I were provided another link to the rules that Cogitation assured me were in effect, I could point out the specific clause.

Sorry, but no. Native endorsements may make an externally elected delegate into a natively ellected one, but it does not alter its own nativity status. You may want to re-read Cog's write-up ;)

Ballotonia

"-If an invader delegate convinces the native members of the invaded region to endorse him (assuming 50+% endorse him), is he still considered an invader? What if the other invading nations leave?"

And here's the response

"For a delegate to be considered a native delegate, he/she must have enough native support to remain in that position without the assistance of other non-natives - invaders or neutral."
-Neutered Sputniks

According to this wording, a nation that has more native UN endorsements than any other nation in the region, plus the delegate position, is a native delegate. Therefore, if I have 29 native UN endorsements, 30 raider endorsements, and my closest competitor has 28 native UN endorsements and 29 defender endorsements, then I become a Native Delegate, according to these rules.

According to this wording, a nation that has more native UN endorsements than any other nation in the region, plus the delegate position, is a native delegate. Therefore, if I have 29 native UN endorsements, 30 raider endorsements, and my closest competitor has 28 native UN endorsements and 29 defender endorsements, then I become a Native Delegate, according to these rules.
Correct(assuming you replace Native Delegate with IED), but:
1) I doubt that a crasher would get enough native endos to become IED(Internally-Elected Delegate) while crashing, unless the native del was a tyrannous lunatic.
2) If you became IED then the defenders would move elsewhere. If you actually got public support(and not from spies, which are non-natives, but from actual natives) then we'd just leave you alone. There are still griefing laws for IEDs.
3) Oppressed America broke the griefing laws by forcing natives to endorse him or be ejected--that means that every non-UN would be ejected. Sounds like griefing even for a native IED. The only way that wouldn't be griefing is
a) in a Warzone
b) if the del was the Founder also

According to this wording, a nation that has more native UN endorsements than any other nation in the region, plus the delegate position, is a native delegate. Therefore, if I have 29 native UN endorsements, 30 raider endorsements, and my closest competitor has 28 native UN endorsements and 29 defender endorsements, then I become a Native Delegate, according to these rules.Of course, since your being propped up by Invader endorsements, your still an invader delegate, not a native one.

EDIT : This is of course, also stated in the rules you have quoted. Can't have one half without the other, you know, ;)

Aye; that's a good mathematical point.

But let us not forget that if anyone has the support of that many natives, the Defenders would hardly be welcome in the region ;-)

Not really, because your assuming the natives are 100 % percent sure what they are doing and who they are doing it to, and why they are doing it. And this is all hypothetical and really nothing to do with the case at hand, I don't suppose it matters, ;)

Correct(assuming you replace Native Delegate with IED), but:

3) Oppressed America broke the griefing laws by forcing natives to endorse him or be ejected--that means that every non-UN would be ejected. Sounds like griefing even for a native IED. The only way that wouldn't be griefing is


You are a liar. I was Oppressed America and I did not eject a native because he did not endorse me!

You are a liar. I was Oppressed America and I did not eject a native because he did not endorse me!
But you threatened to. Threatening to greif is not that far from greifing.

So the words matter more than what I actually did? In that case, I could accuse Data X, the TITO puppet, for "griefbaiting" as he asked me to ban him!

So the words matter more than what I actually did? In that case, I could accuse Data X, the TITO puppet, for "griefbaiting" as he asked me to ban him!
Okay, maybe I was wrong on that point, but at any rate, forcing nations to reveal themselves or face ejection means that for natives which the DEN would eject if they were revealed, they'd be ejected either way.

*sigh* I just should've let my compatriots pwn your silly region.

So the words matter more than what I actually did? In that case, I could accuse Data X, the TITO puppet, for "griefbaiting" as he asked me to ban him!

In your case, the words do matter because you were the delegate who had the power to enforce those words. Many nations simply were struck with fear of ejection by those words you wrote onto the region's World Factbook Entry.

BTW -- according to my reading of this thread's XML screens and reading Data X's posts -- both combined show him as a native of the USA, if not an unusually fearless one. Certainly he predates all the DEN invaders.

I am not a Moderator so I cannot know if that is why you were deleted; but stating that you will eject nations that don't contact you first nor sign up on your version of the USA offsite forum I believe constitutes the threat to break NS rules and therefore is effectively griefing.

Triple Bump :)

Yeah he is right, that is grieving or wateva u call it, i just read the rules and it seems u were acctually breaking da rulez ;)