NationStates Jolt Archive

I haven't seen anything else on this situation on these forums, and I thought it was newsworthy enough to merit a topic here. So here's some observations from around the Gameplay world regarding the ADN-Ireland conflict:

On May 30, Codonegal, the invader Delegate of The Province, an ADN member region, posted (http://s3.invisionfree.com/ADN/index.php?showtopic=1513) on the ADN boards requesting that The Province be withdrawn from the ADN. The request was not granted, and Shiff, Founder of The Province, ejected the invaders, who were from Ireland. Prodigal Fenian, who has been DEAT many times (and is now DEAT-on-sight) and in my opinion has one of the largest egos in NationStates, posted taunting messages on the ADN thread in question and proceeded to get banned-on-sight from that forum as well. A new incarnation, Prodigals fenian, was deleted yesterday.

The following was posted (http://s3.invisionfree.com/ADN/index.php?showtopic=1583) on the ADN forum late last night:

WAR DECLARED!

ADN House and Senate Vote to Declare War on Ireland!

The House and Senate have voted unanimously to issue a formal declaration of War against Ireland.

Authored by President Pro Tempore Ganchelkas

Congressional Declaration of War on Ireland
June 2, 2004

JOINT RESOLUTION Declaring that a state of war exists between the Government of Ireland, and its Allies, and the Government, the Regions and the Nations of the Alliance Defense Network and making provisions to prosecute the same.

Whereas the Government of Ireland has committed unprovoked acts of war against the Government of The Province and the Alliance Defense Network: Therefore be it Resolved by the Senate and House of Representatives of the A.D.N. in Congress assembled, That the state of war between the A.D.N. and the Government of Ireland, and all Powers, Organizations, Regions and Groups aiding or assisting the Government of Ireland, which has thus been thrust upon the A.D.N. is hereby formally declared; and the President is hereby authorized and directed to employ the entire military forces of the A.D.N. and the resources of the Government to carry on war against the Government of Ireland; and, to bring the conflict to a successful termination, all of the resources of the A.D.N. are hereby pledged by the Congress of the Alliance Defense Network.
Approved, June 2, 2004, 10:10 p.m. E.S.T.


With those words, the ADN Senate and House of Representatives took the final step in response to the unprovoked attack by Ireland on the ADN member Region of The Province, home of the former Vice President of the ADN, Shiff. A statement from the President, Vazquez, or the Director of the ADN, Pope Hope, has not yet been issued. It remains to be seen what is to be the next step, but no doubt it will come swiftly and with deadly force.

Earlier, the Delegate of Ireland, Bohola and Prodigal Fenian appeared within this Department with insulting and challenging remarks about the ADN. During the remarks, the Delegate of Ireland as much as admitted that Ireland was responsible directly for the attacks, which they termed "a training exercise." The attack on The Province was sudden and without any provocation.

EDITORIAL NOTE:

I have no doubt that the attack on The Province was something that was planned and spearheaded by Prodigal Fenian, formerly known as Eire Shamrock, and agreed to by, at least in this case, his "puppet," Bohola, the Delegate of Ireland. Whether the actions of the Irish Delegate are because of a misguided loyalty to the former Founder of Ireland remains to be seen. However, Prodigal Fenian, in our experience, delights in creating conflict. His joy within NationStates is bloodshed and war, not peace. With Prodigal Fenian, his motto seems to be "War at any price!" Even now, there is a standing order by the moderators of NationStates that any Nation of his is to be immediately deleted. He thrives on the attention, and could care not a whit for the consequences to others who love the game. This misguided and blind following by the citizens of the Region that he professes to love is, indeed, a sorry day for the noble people of Ireland.

What is not clear is what the response will be by the allies of Ireland, Imperial Germany and the USSR. Both have indicated that they will honor their alliance, but whether the alliance can withstand the outrageous and unprovoked attack of Ireland against another Nation, capturing its UN Delegacy for a period of several hours until ejected by The Province Founder, remains to be seen. It has been seen by myself that both leaders of the USSR and Imperial Germany are both serious and intelligent men who now find themselves caught in the middle of a quandary of whether to honor an alliance with an "ally" who deliberately provoked a War, or not. I gather that the Ireland of today is not the same Ireland with which both of those Regions entered into their original alliance.

I recently was invited to visit the offsite Forums of Imperial Germany and was impressed with what I saw there. I thank them for their courtesy of allowing me to visit. The leader of their people is undoubtedly an honorable man, but one who is torn between honoring a commitment made to Ireland in their alliance, or the dishonor in helping to defend and uphold a Region that would commit such a cowardly and unjustified attack on a Nation where they knew that this could be the only result.

I can't help but wonder just how much of this result is the intention of the "Svengali" of the people of Ireland, Prodigal Fenian (Erie Shamrock). The act committed by Ireland in attacking and temporarily occupying the ADN member Region of The Province was not one of arrogence, where they thought that they could act with impunity, and with no consequences. It was an act where those who ordered it knew exactly what the result would be. The act of a madman.

More to come....

Imperial Germany, an ally of Ireland, honored their alliance commitment and declared war on the ADN, as is seen by this post (http://s3.invisionfree.com/ADN/index.php?showtopic=1584) on the ADN forum:

On behalf of His Imperial Majesty Wilhelm II of Hohenzollern, by the grace of God the Emperor of the German Reich, the Protector of her Colonies and Interests, the Defender of the Holy Lutheran Faith, Grand High Field Marshal and Admiral of the Imperial German Army and Fleet, I do beg an audience before the ADN to deliver the following comments -

Gentlemen and Ladies of the Alliance Defense Network -

It is with heavy heart and great reluctance that I pen this message. Imperial Germany has long lived in tranquil peace, our last declared war being in December of 2002, and war is not something we enter into lightly. In the past, Imperial Germany and the ADN have not entered into conflict and we existed blissfully independent of one anothers actions.

This day we are drawn together, and you have my regrets that our association now could not be on lighter conditions.

The ADN and her associates may be eager to learn why Imperial Germany follows Ireland into this war, a war which many say Ireland is the cause of. We fight with Ireland because there has existed between our two regions a very ancient and very sacred alliance, dating back to December of 2002. Many times have the forces of Ireland come to the aid of Imperial Germany, and for not but the aid of the Irish, it stands to reason that Imperial Germany may not even exist today.

Honor, duty, and integrity therefore dictate that Imperial Germany shall not abandon her friends and allies of Ireland. We can only pray that Ireland would have done the same for Imperial Germany if in the same position. What are allies for, if not for such times as this?

Let posterity now witness that Imperial Germany, having done nothing to bring about this conflict, and indeed having done all in her powers to avert it's necessity, formally upholds her alliance to Ireland. For whatever reason, the Alliance Defense Network has declared war upon our Allies, and such is considered an attack by the Government of Imperial Germany, and therefore Imperial Germany is obligated, by terms of the alliance, to reciprocate.

Having thus the Alliance Defense Network entered into an armed conflict with Ireland, I have the honor on the instructions of my Government, to inform your Excellencies as follows -

His Majesty the Emperor, my august Sovereign, in the name of Imperial Germany, accepts the challenge, and considers himself at war with the Alliance Defense Network.

I remain, Sirs and Madames, your humble and obedient servant,

Franz Heinrich von Albert, Jr.
Undersecretary of War to His Majesty

From the Imperial Germany Civil HQ:

At 7:10 PM, PST, on the Second of June in the year of our Lord 2004, the Alliance Defense Network declared war on Ireland.

Per terms of our Alliance, Imperial Germany is thus obligated to enter into a state of war with the region of Ireland.

This region shall remain under password protection until cessation of hostilities.

I ask of my loyal subjects, my brother nations of Imperial Germany, and indeed, my friends, to pray fervently for a quick peace. However, if peace is not soon in coming, I ask also for your support for this war effort for as long as it may take us.

We fight for our honor, and though all odds are against us, it is far better to lose ones life with honor than to live in shame and cowardice.

My comrades, draw your swords together with me in this dark hour.

Gott mit uns.

Kw.II
(Doh) We're entering into a state of war with the ADN... not Ireland.
Ireland is passworded and the delegate has 28 votes. The ADN will have to have excellent intelligence if they are to win.

haha NERDS

haha NERDS

That's "geek" to you.

I just don't know. This war seems to hit me hard, seeing as that on one side of my family I am Irish Roman Catholic, and on the other, German Lutheran. So, I hope the Irish and Germans win. But I dont really care, I am just interested in seeing what happens.

Ireland versus the ADN? Ireland is gonna get its ass kicked. Their delegate hasn't even been active for the last 2 days. Noobs could take Ireland.

Heh, I doubt they thought that far ahead.

Ireland was an ally of MTNG until early this year, but since they have fallen into inactivity and are a source of so much controversy, including now it seems attacking an ADN region, I do not believe I am saying anything radical in declaring that we have not given a damn for a while, and this policy is now effectively formalised.

Tactical Grace
UN Delegate / Minister of War / Defence Consultancy
Mercia The Next Generation (http://www.nationstates.net/cgi-bin/index.cgi/target=display_region/region=Mercia_The_Next_Generation)

I guess the "Noobs" would have to figure out the password first.

Ireland versus the ADN? Ireland is gonna get its ass kicked. Their delegate hasn't even been active for the last 2 days. Noobs could take Ireland.

Knowing what I know about Ireland, and the NazIrish there especially Wotan Die Konig, AKA good old the Deat on sight nations of Eire Shamrock,

I have to say I morally support the ADN in this cause.

Ha...

The ADN is riding for a fall... :twisted:

What are you going on about? Never heard of Wotan Die Konig. Oh, is that a recreation of ES? Well, whatever. In their (ADN) warped mind they are reacting to an act of war (The Province - CoDonegal) which makes them justified. They like to believe this was the first occurrence of any grievance against us (Ireland) instead of the fact that they took part of installing the dictator USV into Northern Ireland. Nice liberation done their ADN. Do you not follow up on those you install as delegates? It is nice to see that he has 3 endorsements - well done lad. USV I bow to your supreme rule. Oh yeah I bow to the ADN and their war. I do not see any invasion force. I think I will have a pint and drink to the ADN and all its glory.

Knowing what I know about Ireland, and the NazIrish there especially Wotan Die Konig, AKA good old the Deat on sight nations of Eire Shamrock,

I have to say I morally support the ADN in this cause.

I love it how the ADN has become so self-righteous and outraged at our attack on the Province. It almost reminds me of when they attacked Ireland. Or 32 CIR. Or Northern Ireland. Or Blarney Castle. The ADN is nothing but a bunch of pirates trying to make themselves out to be the victim in this.

For more information about the ADN and Ireland conflict, and more about happenings in the ADN go to http://s3.invisionfree.com/ADN/index.php?showforum=94 which is the ADN Department of Public Affairs and open to visitors so long as you are polite.

Sugar Bear
Director, ADN Department of Public Affairs

Im rootin for the Irish... me being part Irish has nothing to do with this. I hate the ADN.

I am sure we are not the only region that has been the target of the ADN's "defensive" alliance. Thanks for your input. Believe me Ireland has not yet begun to fight. They have been messing with our affairs for way to long. Again I say everyone take a look at NI. It is a wasteland because of the ADN. They do not care what actions they take on their so called "righteous" effort to defend regions. The facts are in our favor not theirs.

Im rootin for the Irish... me being part Irish has nothing to do with this. I hate the ADN.

I love it how the ADN has become so self-righteous and outraged at our attack on the Province. It almost reminds me of when they attacked Ireland. Or 32 CIR. Or Northern Ireland. Or Blarney Castle. The ADN is nothing but a bunch of pirates trying to make themselves out to be the victim in this.

Maybe if Ireland were to stop invading other regions they'd find themselves fighting against the ADN much less often.

At least most sane invader orgs have the common sense to not directly attack the ADN.

Ballotonia

No one every said we were exactly sane. We are not going to back down from these oppressors. They would like to believe that they are the end all be all but they will soon find out that THEY are in the wrong here. We are not going to wait for them. We are taking the fight to them even if they may have more numbers we have resolve and tenacity that they have never seen before.



Maybe if Ireland were to stop invading other regions they'd find themselves fighting against the ADN much less often.

At least most sane invader orgs have the common sense to not directly attack the ADN.

Ballotonia

Well, traditionally I've been on the other side of this, but on this one I'm coming down on Ireland's side. Standing up to the ADN takes balls, and although it may seem pretty insane, I have a thing for near-hopeless causes.

Ireland: call me when you need me. I'll bring friends.

Oh, also cos the thing in Northern Ireland was a real botch job. That just killed the region.

From the desk of Prodigal Fenian of Ireland

Brave nations, regions of Nationstates unite! The scourge that is the ADN must be stopped once and for all! For too long this gang of brigands has bullied it's way through the Nationstates world, attempting to dominate smaller regions through it's collective strength. The time is upon us to take a stand, for it we do not hang together, we shall hang seperately. It is only a matter of time before the ADN bullies YOU and YOUR region in their never ending imperialistic quest to forge a new, evil order throughout nationstates. These treacherous cowards must be shown that the good nations and people of Nationstates shall no longer bow down to them, we will take the fight to them! The declaration of war on Ireland is the latest disgusting foreign policy offensive the ADN has embarked upon.

Ireland and her allies declare war on the ADN, we will fight you tooth and nail, and we are going to rally all good nations to follow suit. We will start out as a small band of brothers, sisters in this struggle, yet over time we shall pick up more and more nations, all fed up with living under the jackboot tyranny of the ADN. This bizarre alliance claims to be defensive in nature, yet they take over regions with more frequency than any other group! Simply put, the ADN is a sham, it's run by power hungry zealots that hate freedom loving regions such as Ireland. Irish regions have long been targeted by the ADN and their gang of criminals. We are no innocents, we have done our fair share of raiding regions, but these were always for a greater purpose, the ADN on the other hand use war as a tool to keep down other competing regions, to expand their territory, and to oppress us all.

The ultimate aim of the ADN is to take over all regions, and extend their hegemony over all of the Nationstates world. They are truly a frightening bunch, and we call on everyone to contribute to the war effort, by fighting the ADN at every turn, backed up Ireland in a time of need. We urge all regions of the world to declare war on these criminals!

Rally around, there is work to be done! Join the good fight.

All the best,
Prodigal Fenian of Ireland

The war declaration does seem to be more PR related than actually because of genuine disagreements that the ADN have with Ireland... I'm wondering maybe if the ADN isn't just trying to poke an ants nest for its own enjoyment. Maybe getting a bit bored due to the decline in invasions?

Ireland... if you want some help tg my nation in nationstates (same name) and i might be able to find some help for you. The irish kick. and besides the ADN have been getting on my nerves alot. Defending regions that dont need defending all the time though sometimes they do what is considered "morally right". I had friends at the NI incident who were helping the irish and they kept saying how the ADN ruined them. I say its payback time.

Ireland... if you want some help tg my nation in nationstates (same name) and i might be able to find some help for you. The irish kick. and besides the ADN have been getting on my nerves alot. Defending regions that dont need defending all the time though sometimes they do what is considered "morally right". I had friends at the NI incident who were helping the irish and they kept saying how the ADN ruined them. I say its payback time.

Aren't we in nationstates? Or are you talking about the region nationstates? Anyway, Serengarve may also be able to offer Ireland some assistance, we don't really have anything against the ADN either, but like Spoffin said, this is a pretty hopeless cause, and it seems like the ADN has plenty of friends already.

Then come join the fun in "The United Peoples of Abraham". Endorse Atherton. Its a party. The more the merrier.

Then come join the fun in "The United Peoples of Abraham". Endorse Atherton. Its a party. The more the merrier.

Now that appears to be a lost cause right there.

What are you going on about? Never heard of Wotan Die Konig. Oh, is that a recreation of ES? Well, whatever. In their (ADN) warped mind they are reacting to an act of war (The Province - CoDonegal) which makes them justified. They like to believe this was the first occurrence of any grievance against us (Ireland) instead of the fact that they took part of installing the dictator USV into Northern Ireland. Nice liberation done their ADN. Do you not follow up on those you install as delegates? It is nice to see that he has 3 endorsements - well done lad. USV I bow to your supreme rule. Oh yeah I bow to the ADN and their war. I do not see any invasion force. I think I will have a pint and drink to the ADN and all its glory.

Knowing what I know about Ireland, and the NazIrish there especially Wotan Die Konig, AKA good old the Deat on sight nations of Eire Shamrock,

I have to say I morally support the ADN in this cause.

Wotan Die Konig was the First Puppet of Eires deleted for spamming,
he spammed the heck out of Germany during my delegacy of the region.
He was called in to do so by Parratoga and WGaD, who didnt like the fact that Germanys Delegate wasnt a Nazi,

Sorry I must have read your last post incorrectly. I thought you were offering aid to Ireland. No problems we will carry on otherwise. Thanks.

Then come join the fun in "The United Peoples of Abraham". Endorse Atherton. Its a party. The more the merrier.

Now that appears to be a lost cause right there.

Sorry I must have read your last post incorrectly. I thought you were offering aid to Ireland. No problems we will carry on otherwise. Thanks.


No, I still intend to offer what help I can, it just seems unlikely that your forces are likely to win here.

Ireland, Imperial Germany stands beside you loyally. The ADN need a group of brave people to stand up to them, come join the fight!

I would like to remind you of the fact that Ireland invaded The Province. Many people in the ADN didn't like you already, but that unprovoked act of war... You went too far and now you must face the consequences. I would prefer not to fight against most of your allies, but you leave us no choice. You and your allies will be defeated on the field of honour unless you surrender.

Ganchelkas
President Pro Tempore of the ADN Senate

Sorry mate, that excuse is pretty lame to me. This did not start with The Province anyways. The Province had an active founder that logged in daily. It was not like it was going to be held for any amount of time. It was a show that your ADN alliance is not as strong as you would like to tout. This started back with Northern Ireland, Blarney Castle, and 32 CIR. It is nice to see that you would glass over the entire past occurrence where the ADN has wronged Ireland. Look at what you have done to NI. How can you excuse that I ask you? Many nations grow tired of you righteous acts of war. Your honor on the battle field has already be lost be you and your brethren.

"Blarney Castle, and 32 CIR."


Funny how the ADN never had anything to do with those two regions.

1. My post was not an excuse, I was just saying that I don't like to fight against many allies of Ireland. That doesn't mean I don't like to fight against Ireland's troops.

2. As you can read in the Congressional Declaration of War, the main reason for this war is the invasion of The Province. It's true that the roots of this conflict go back a long time, but the ADN cannot be blamed for starting this conflict. I believe the plans of Ireland to attack the ADN date back to the day the ADN Supreme Court found Ireland GUILTY of three counts of Conduct Unbecoming.

The GRD stands morally with Ireland in this conflict. Anyone who strikes against the corrupt ADN are heroes indeed!

Ireland attacked an innocent region and now is trying to wriggle out of the cosequences. The RLA declaration of war clearly states that we will consider any region or group that helps Ireland in this enemies and will effect military operations to reduce their interference if needed.

RLA Press release: http://rlanews.blogdrive.com/

Let me say this slowly..... The ADN help remove Irish nations out of Northern Ireland after the Irish had won a native majority. The region of GB3 and the United Kingdom sent English troops to try and regain the delegate. The Irish also sent troops which they (ADN) saw as invaders. The English native cried foul. Cu Mara took over as delegate in NI with 4 votes from native nations. Once the MODS DEAT'd Prodigal Fenian (for spamming Sugar Bear and other offenses) who was the delegate at the time the ADN rushed in and endorsed The United States of Victories (who was not the delegate prior to Cu Mara taking control). Now, USV has ejected all Irish nations and will not allow any other nations besides those that will only support him back into the region. The ADN pulled out and now NI is a waste land. The ADN put Ireland on trial even after we had removed ourselves from their tyrannical organization for invading The United Kingdom to try and separate the force of English that had been besieging NI once the Irish had majority control. The ADN kicked us out of their organization even after we had already resigned. Now present day. We made another attempt on NI which once again the ADN charged in with tactful speed and was able to keep us from regaining the NI region (good work on that one - very quick response I might add). So now all ADN regions have been brought into this little conflict we have. The Province had an active founder and the region was not going to be controlled by the Irish we could care less about it. What we did do was take temporary delegate status and made them look silly. They now are trying to stir up a big hypocritical righteous "war" because they have been disgraced by a much smaller group of determined nations. Hope this has been easy to read if not contact me and I will try to clarify. I was in NI, I know what happened. You can go and look at NI now and see what the 'great' ADN did for a thriving region. Even as we speak USV is trying to beg the MODS into giving him founder status (what a joke) of the region.

They like to believe this was the first occurrence of any grievance against us (Ireland) instead of the fact that they took part of installing the dictator USV into Northern Ireland. Nice liberation done their ADN.

Wouldn't be the first time...in Ireland or otherwise...

The GRD stands morally with Ireland in this conflict. Anyone who strikes against the corrupt ADN are heroes indeed!

Huh- and to think you claimed to be defenders yourself only recently when you wanted control of a region for yourselves. Quite humorous :roll:

Once the MODS DEAT'd Prodigal Fenian (for spamming Sugar Bear and other offenses)


Ok then why does he keep comeing back then........

The GRD stands morally with Ireland in this conflict. Anyone who strikes against the corrupt ADN are heroes indeed!

Huh- and to think you claimed to be defenders yourself only recently when you wanted control of a region for yourselves. Quite humorous :roll:

very

The GRD stands morally with Ireland in this conflict. Anyone who strikes against the corrupt ADN are heroes indeed!

May I note the following:
The A.D.N. government is considered a CITIZENSHIP REPUBLIC, which means it is defined by a government where authority is derived through election by the people of public officials best fitted to represent them.
The ADN is not corrupt, in fact it's one of the best democracies in NS.

Corruption can be elected. Many would say that of the George Bush Jr. election was complete corruption. Being a good democracy does not make them the perfect organization. Your quote is invalid.

The GRD stands morally with Ireland in this conflict. Anyone who strikes against the corrupt ADN are heroes indeed!

May I note the following:
The A.D.N. government is considered a CITIZENSHIP REPUBLIC, which means it is defined by a government where authority is derived through election by the people of public officials best fitted to represent them.
The ADN is not corrupt, in fact it's one of the best democracies in NS.

Great word Keltic Mystery! Imperial Germany backs up your statement of events 100% percent. The ADN is a tyrannical society trying to take over Nationstates, they must be stopped!

Great word Keltic Mystery! Imperial Germany backs up your statement of events 100% percent. The ADN is a tyrannical society trying to take over Nationstates, they must be stopped!I'd like to thank you for supporting Ireland in this matter Das Panzer. Your stance will not be forgotten.

Alphakks will ask all his friends and allies to support anyone who is an enemy of ADN.
One day ADN, the NS world will come together and crush you for your arrogant abuse of power! :x

Minnesota II is with Ireland 100%

READ HOW THE ADN HIJACKED MINNESOTA! :

http://s7.invisionfree.com/MN_Regional_Forum/index.php?showtopic=48

We are working on a method to coordinate all of these offers of support so all may enter into the battle against the tyranny of the ADN. They have harassed and bullied nations and regions long enough. More to come. Prepare your nations the battle is at hand.

Note: the ADN Democracy is NOT corrupt. At least our Democracy is better than any Invader Dictatorship.

Note: the ADN Democracy is NOT corrupt. At least our Democracy is better than any Invader Dictatorship.

and I second that statement 100%

Great word Keltic Mystery! Imperial Germany backs up your statement of events 100% percent. The ADN is a tyrannical society trying to take over Nationstates, they must be stopped!

IF that's why you are fighting, how do you justify allying with invaders, whose sole reason for existing as an entity is invading and taking over other regions?

I was not arguing the democracy was corrupt but its leaders are. You can have an elected official that is not quite what you expect. Tricky Dicky Nixon was not a crook, either (at least from his words). Take your lies elsewhere.

Note: the ADN Democracy is NOT corrupt. At least our Democracy is better than any Invader Dictatorship.

You need to learn your terms correctly. Ireland is only allied currently with Imperial Germany and USSR. We have currently accepted aid from enemies of the ADN to strategically bolster our war fighting capability. These independent nations and regions along with DEN stand together against this singular goal of bringing the ADN to justice and accountable for your consistent meddling in others affairs. Our actions are directed directly at the ADN regions and no other. <-- Make sure you read that so you can clearly understand that statement and not spin it with your wonderful propaganda machine.


IF that's why you are fighting, how do you justify allying with invaders, whose sole reason for existing as an entity is invading and taking over other regions?

Bah - you have chosen to accept the aid of invaders, whose sole mission is to dominate other regions and "meddle in others' affairs". Whether they are officially your allies, or not, they are working in conjunction with you, and you have accepted that. You cannot on one hand claim that you are ridding NS of tyrannical meddling, and then utilize the help of meddling tyrants on the other and not be hypocritical.

You are free to hold whatever opinions you want about the ADN, but it's absurd to suggest that the invaders you are working with are any better than what you claim you are fighting.

<---make sure you read to understand that your semantical arguments are nothing but empty words when faced with the facts. By utilizing the aid of those that are exactly what you claim to detest, you are a hypocrite, and nothing more.

Well said Argyres. It always amuses me; the most respected regions in the entire game are members of the ADN, or allied to the ADN and yet invaders and their lackeys never cease slandering us just because we put a stop to their tyrannical activities.

(Argyres here - This is my "ADN nation", I generally am too lazy to post using it, but I don't want people to think that I'm speaking as Argyres, but instead as Iasonia)

I'm reminded of what the author Bill James said (in a book about baseball, but true in general). When you have a debate like this, a lot of times each side is full of it half the time - the problem arises when they attempt to pretend as if only the other side is wrong. Thus, a lot of problems can be solved if each side admits it's full of it in that half of the time.

Speaking from my previous experience with N. Ireland, etc., all I know is that I've heard like 50 different stories from 50 different people. I don't know the full story - and because of that I'm acting only to defend my friends in the Province, and I'm willing to admit that. I'd rather not be at war at all, because in the end we all lose, but until we can end this I will stand by my friends.

So who prey tell should we get aid from? If you were on our side what would be your strategy? To stay alone and not have the numbers to rally an active force? Don’t’ be silly. The ADN in general may be a good organization meaning to do the right thing. But they are often not on the correct side. They will come in and act without really looking into matters. Even now they admit that the NI problem was unclear to them. I have their statements saying so. But they are still unwilling to admit they were wrong in jumping into a matter that had nothing to do with them. NI was not a member of the ADN and Ireland had resigned. The ADN needs to deal with their regions and their regions alone. Then maybe their intel will be accurate. This is not the only case the ADN has acted with impunity and people are tired of it. I am not a hypocrite. I was a member in NI and I have been ejected unfairly. I fight because of this. Many other have joined for their own reasons, none of which concern me, but do not lessen their grievance with the ADN. The time has come for them to be accountable for their actions. This is a war. All ADN regions are subject to that war and we have been attacking those regions. Anyone having grievance with the ADN is welcome to join the fight.

Well said Argyres. It always amuses me; the most respected regions in the entire game are members of the ADN, or allied to the ADN and yet invaders and their lackeys never cease slandering us just because we put a stop to their tyrannical activities.

well that lets me know jsut where I fit, LOL.

Well said Argyres. It always amuses me; the most respected regions in the entire game are members of the ADN, or allied to the ADN and yet invaders and their lackeys never cease slandering us just because we put a stop to their tyrannical activities.

well that lets me know jsut where I fit, LOL.

Just more of the ADN's logic, which never ceases to amaze me. It's delusions such as this one (absolute language - a sign of flawed and faulty logic) and other ideas and "defenses" we've seen given on this thread which are amusing. Various ADN members post here stating how noble they are as if, because they put themselves on such a high moral plateau, we ought to as well and simply take their word for how benevolent they are.

Then there's the current argument - "You enlisted invaders in your fight against us, so you must be wrong!" This, fellow nations, shows us exactly why the ADN is not nearly as pure and untainted as its members constantly claim. Since they are on the side of right, surely nothing they could do is wrong - with attitudes such as this and what we've seen in this thread, it's pretty clear why all their talk of democracy is meaningless. What good is democracy as a tool when the voters are so deluded? When being in the ADN is proof enough for their members of good intentions, what good are elections?

Bah - you have chosen to accept the aid of invaders, whose sole mission is to dominate other regions and "meddle in others' affairs". Whether they are officially your allies, or not, they are working in conjunction with you, and you have accepted that. You cannot on one hand claim that you are ridding NS of tyrannical meddling, and then utilize the help of meddling tyrants on the other and not be hypocritical.

You are free to hold whatever opinions you want about the ADN, but it's absurd to suggest that the invaders you are working with are any better than what you claim you are fighting.

<---make sure you read to understand that your semantical arguments are nothing but empty words when faced with the facts. By utilizing the aid of those that are exactly what you claim to detest, you are a hypocrite, and nothing more.

FYI - the All Holy ADN accepted the assistance of a known invader organisation with their unlawful coup in Northern Ireland... The noble ADN then did the honourable thing and betrayed that invader group once they were of no further use to them. "Empty words when faced with the facts"? Who is the hypocrite now?

I was not arguing the democracy was corrupt but its leaders are. You can have an elected official that is not quite what you expect. Tricky Dicky Nixon was not a crook, either (at least from his words). Take your lies elsewhere.

Note: the ADN Democracy is NOT corrupt. At least our Democracy is better than any Invader Dictatorship.
If you would at least inform yourself using the ADNNS you would know that the President and the Director were re-elected. Now why would they be re-elected if they were corrupt?

I was not arguing the democracy was corrupt but its leaders are. You can have an elected official that is not quite what you expect. Tricky Dicky Nixon was not a crook, either (at least from his words). Take your lies elsewhere.

Note: the ADN Democracy is NOT corrupt. At least our Democracy is better than any Invader Dictatorship.
If you would at least inform yourself using the ADNNS you would know that the President and the Director were re-elected. Now why would they be re-elected if they were corrupt?

How about because the ADN is full of self-righteous zealots who feel that their organization can do no wrong? Kinda like the state of the US these days...no matter how dismal the failure/objectionable the action, as long as you can speak a pretty line and cover your -ss, you'll be re-elected.

Seems like the ADN is pulling from Bush's playbook these days.

1) We are morally superior, so anything we do must be just. This is for your own good.

2) If anyone tries to counter this,
a) It was someone else's fault (i.e. bad intel - U.S.).
b) It was the act of a rogue ADN nation (i.e. Italy).
c) Invaders were somehow involved (i.e. Ireland, U.S.).
d) Refer to #1 (i.e. Ireland, U.S.).

Well said Argyres. It always amuses me; the most respected regions in the entire game are members of the ADN, or allied to the ADN and yet invaders and their lackeys never cease slandering us just because we put a stop to their tyrannical activities.

well that lets me know jsut where I fit, LOL.

Ahhhh, you know we all love ya loop! Lol :) Or, at least your flags. ;)

I was not arguing the democracy was corrupt but its leaders are. You can have an elected official that is not quite what you expect. Tricky Dicky Nixon was not a crook, either (at least from his words). Take your lies elsewhere.

Note: the ADN Democracy is NOT corrupt. At least our Democracy is better than any Invader Dictatorship.
If you would at least inform yourself using the ADNNS you would know that the President and the Director were re-elected. Now why would they be re-elected if they were corrupt?

Clinton was elected twice and he was impeached his second term. Not many would call him corrupt but many would say unethical. And Sadam was 'elected' as well. (Not that I am comparing any ADN nation with any of these individuals). I am positioning that corrupt people can and do get elected and re-elected.

Clinton was elected twice and he was impeached his second term. Not many would call him corrupt but many would say unethical. And Sadam was 'elected' as well. (Not that I am comparing any ADN nation with any of these individuals). I am positioning that corrupt people can and do get elected and re-elected.

What are you talking about? Clinton has never been impeached. Your comparison with Clinton doesn't make any sense. And the voting procedures in Iraq under Saddam are not even close to the voting procedures in the ADN. Voting in the ADN is held transparant and open, and while no election is perfect, ADN elections are in no way comparable with the Saddam elections. The leaders elected in the ADN are not elected for any other reason than their ability, talent and knowledge.

Uh... actually, he was impeached. For lying under oath. Perjury, if you will.

The point is that he wasn't convicted and thrown out of office. Different from the actual impeachment.

What are you talking about? Clinton has never been impeached.

He was impeached by the House of Representatives.


<--- Not a republican, I voted for Clinton [just an fyi]

And the voting procedures in Iraq under Saddam are not even close to the voting procedures in the ADN. Voting in the ADN is held transparant and open, and while no election is perfect, ADN elections are in no way comparable with the Saddam elections. The leaders elected in the ADN are not elected for any other reason than their ability, talent and knowledge.

:shock: Does anyone remember that kooky Iraqi Information Minister? I am quite certain that the people involved in Saddam's regime felt that, "the leaders elected in the [substitute 'Iraqi Government' for ADN here] are not elected for any other reason than their ability, talent and knowledge."
You could also throw in that they are elected for their uncompromising ability to do as they are told and follow like mindless sheep, so long as they are allowed to maintain their positions of power.

People of NationStates. If you really want to know what happened, why it happened, and what is happening now, you are invited to view the ADN News Service Forum (formerly Office of ADN Public Affairs). This is not an administration News Service, (hence the recent name change) and articles and comments are not censored or preapproved by anyone other than myself before they are printed.

I am not in any ADN elected office or any cabinet office, do not have a Nation in the ADN military, but rather do this news service only. You have heard propaganda from those of Ireland on this thread about the ADN being corrupt, etc. You have seen those with IG appearing names that are actually propagandists from Ireland. See the facts for yourself on the ADN News Service Forum.

You are not required to sign in and can see the entire ADNNS (ADN News Service) Forum, along with several others on this offsite ADN Forum. I only ask that you be polite if you decide to post to the letters to the Editor. Even representatives from Ireland and Imperial Germany read the ADN News Service articles. To do the same, go here: http://s3.invisionfree.com/ADN/index.php?showforum=94

Sugar Bear
Director, ADN News Service

[quote=Equility]And the voting procedures in Iraq under Saddam are not even close to the voting procedures in the ADN. Voting in the ADN is held transparant and open, and while no election is perfect, ADN elections are in no way comparable with the Saddam elections. The leaders elected in the ADN are not elected for any other reason than their ability, talent and knowledge.

ADN elections are free to anybody who wishes to run. However nobody normally runs against the current leader therefore the leader doesnt change.

How about some actual unbiased news links Sugar Bear. Sugar Bear is affiliated with the AND regardless of his own words. Go read his editorial comment you will see this. After that, go to the NationState News if you want unbiased non-spun reporting. Brock Smith does an excellent job at showing both side of any dispute. It was nice of him to leave the other news source off of his thread. I am sure this was just an oversight. Nice try though. That is why we are here to keep you on the up and up.

http://s7.invisionfree.com/NBC/index.php

People of NationStates. If you really want to know what happened, why it happened, and what is happening now, you are invited to view the ADN News Service Forum (formerly Office of ADN Public Affairs). This is not an administration News Service, (hence the recent name change) and articles and comments are not censored or preapproved by anyone other than myself before they are printed.

I am not in any ADN elected office or any cabinet office, do not have a Nation in the ADN military, but rather do this news service only. You have heard propaganda from those of Ireland on this thread about the ADN being corrupt, etc. You have seen those with IG appearing names that are actually propagandists from Ireland. See the facts for yourself on the ADN News Service Forum.

You are not required to sign in and can see the entire ADNNS (ADN News Service) Forum, along with several others on this offsite ADN Forum. I only ask that you be polite if you decide to post to the letters to the Editor. Even representatives from Ireland and Imperial Germany read the ADN News Service articles. To do the same, go here: http://s3.invisionfree.com/ADN/index.php?showforum=94

Sugar Bear
Director, ADN News Service

People of NationStates. If you really want to know what happened, why it happened, and what is happening now, you are invited to view the ADN News Service Forum
So, this will definitely be an unbiased and accurate account? :roll:

I am not in any ADN elected office or any cabinet office, do not have a Nation in the ADN military, but rather do this news service only. You have heard propaganda from those of Ireland on this thread about the ADN being corrupt, etc.
Sugar Bear, are you not -or- were you not the 'ADN Public Affairs Director', at least up until the 5th of June? Who is the real propagandist here?

You have seen those with IG appearing names that are actually propagandists from Ireland.
Where is your proof of this?

Even representatives from Ireland and Imperial Germany read the ADN News Service articles.
Someone has to keep an eye out for all the misinformation that you are so wont to distribute.

Sugar Bear Director, ADN News Service
The 'propagandist' formerly known as the ADN Public Affairs Director :wink:

The ADN is corrupt... and Sugar Bear... you cannota be unbiased in this sunject unless you honestly dont care about invaders or defenders and as you are Sugar Bear Director, ADN News Service that associates you with the ADN which makes you have a biased opinion in this subject. One thing though not all defenders or invaders are corrupt. There are some defenders that are not corrupt and some invaders that are corrupt. This is going of the fact that a corrupt Invader would be a spy for other regions (mainly rival Invaders, or Defenders). And Vise versa for Defenders. And you cant honestly say that not every ADN member is totally honest and is 100% defender because i am absolutely positive that some of ADN's defender regions house invaders or would be an Invader region waiting for the right time to stand up against the ADN in a very crucial moment (like if the ADN are 1 endorsement away from crushing one of the largest strongest invader regions when the "defender" region shows up and endorses the invader delegate screwing the ADN over). This is just my opinion though.

Actually, Sugar Bear's service is pretty good. If you juxtopose what is on his site with that of the other news services (i.e., NBC) I think you can get a pretty good idea of what and why this war is happening.

FYI: I've never known a news service to be completely unbiased. As a "news junkie" I tend to read several news sources in RL because of the obvious bias in the various news organizations. I think Sugar Bear does inform us well from the point of view of the ADN, and Brock tries to maintain a modicum of neutrality at NBC.

I agree that he does report the news accurately. But I guess it is his 'unbiased' comments on the news that I have issue with. Reporters only report the news they do not commentate. If he is touting to be a news service (Example CNN news, fox news, abc news) then he need to report the news. If he is making comment on the current news (example: The O'reilly Factor) he needs to change his title from news service to news commentator. It may be splitting hairs but I do not think so. If they want to make sure they are 'un-biased’ they need to representative from both side (example: Hannity and Colmes). I would offer my services to give other points of view in case they are unable to find someone. Only then will I give credit where credit is due. Until then, I give Sugar Bear a Bronze Oak Leaf Cluster for best attempt to impersonate a real news service.;)

Actually, Sugar Bear's service is pretty good. If you juxtopose what is on his site with that of the other news services (i.e., NBC) I think you can get a pretty good idea of what and why this war is happening.

FYI: I've never known a news service to be completely unbiased. As a "news junkie" I tend to read several news sources in RL because of the obvious bias in the various news organizations. I think Sugar Bear does inform us well from the point of view of the ADN, and Brock tries to maintain a modicum of neutrality at NBC.

I guess the ADN and its 'many' nations are not willing to come out to the public forums and debate us.

I guess the ADN and its 'many' nations are not willing to come out to the public forums and debate us.

They're too busy out doing "good" to deal with all the people that have opinions of their actions contrary to their opinion. Why should they have to answer to anyone? They're the ADN!

Remember the good ol days when it was only Me ranting about the ADN?
Admitadly I would love to join the rant but in this case, they are the Lesser of the two evils.

as Wotan really sullied the reputation of Ireland and all her allies
I actually have this to add though,

http://invisionfree.com/forums/The_East_Pacific/index.php?act=Attach&type=post&id=1046236

Wotan go down the Hole.

Ok for some reason my image will not show up, just follwo this URL.

http://invisionfree.com/forums/The_East_Pacific/index.php?act=Attach&type=post&id=1046236

and you can see it

Ok for some reason my image will not show up, just follwo this URL.

http://invisionfree.com/forums/The_East_Pacific/index.php?act=Attach&type=post&id=1046236

and you can see it

I hate to tell you but if you are using a personal grudge against one specific person (who no longer even exists in NS) against an entire region made up of many varied nations as the greater evil you might want to reconsider. That would be pretty much saying the same thing about Germany and Hitler or Iraq and Sadam. Should I go on? I hope you get the point. Wotan, ES, PF did not create this conflict. The ADN wrongfully installed United States Victory as delegate with their support of an invasion against NI. That is the reason this conflict started.

I hate to tell you but if you are using a personal grudge against one specific person (who no longer even exists in NS) against an entire region made up of many varied nations as the greater evil you might want to reconsider. That would be pretty much saying the same thing about Germany and Hitler or Iraq and Sadam. Should I go on?

You're a May 2004 nation so you probably weren't around then (don't know if you have other puppets or not) but Loop's got a long and taco-filled history with Germany, Ireland, and the British regions, not just Wotan. Dontcha Loop?

Sugar Bear's stuff in the ADNNS is pretty good, but it's no SeattleNews.

If Imperial Germany are now at war with the ADN, why have they suddenly decided to invade Warzone Africa? Surely invading a warzone is one of the most pointless activities to do at this moment. :roll:

That is not material. To have a past history with a person and not to be able to move on and then to blame an entire region is short sighted. Eire Shamrock/Prodigal Fenian/Wotan is a DOS player. He is not active in NS in Ireland. Loop was spammed quite heavily by Wotan while he was the delegate in Germany but Loop has never had anything else to do with Ireland so his comments on Ireland are not correctly placed. Does he have issues with any other Irish nations? If there was a pattern with several nations then I would have to agree with him but there is not. So your point is invalid.


I hate to tell you but if you are using a personal grudge against one specific person (who no longer even exists in NS) against an entire region made up of many varied nations as the greater evil you might want to reconsider. That would be pretty much saying the same thing about Germany and Hitler or Iraq and Sadam. Should I go on?

You're a May 2004 nation so you probably weren't around then (don't know if you have other puppets or not) but Loop's got a long and taco-filled history with Germany, Ireland, and the British regions, not just Wotan. Dontcha Loop?

Sugar Bear's stuff in the ADNNS is pretty good, but it's no SeattleNews.