NationStates Jolt Archive

We were founded and have fought on the premise of protecting the sovereign rights and liberties of all nations, to see regions protected from the tyranny and despotism of invader groups. Freedom Fighters works day in and day out to thwart invasions, and protect the weak from the predations of those who would do them harm. To defend against invaders, and protect those who cannot protect themselves.

Freedom Fighters is the ultimate army, a compilation of the finest and bravest in NS. Each and every member displays vast knowledge of the game and the ultimate in patriotism. A true citizen soldier. There is none better. Each member has earned respect by offering it. All are equals in the Army, each member is a leader among leaders. We are friends and more like family. We are brothers and we are sisters. We value each others decision and opinion as such.

When the call goes out from any member to advance to win, or fall back to defend, it is done so knowing that the best of the best will answer the call. Freedom Fighters members hold true, and value the rules of NS.
Freedom Fighters is team work and is here to protect the liberties of others, and above all else, to have fun.

Join the Freedom Fighters today, and begin your career as a soldier in the name of liberty. Simply move to the region and sign up on ourforums (http://zandra.proboards25.com), your training room will be the battleground, and your acceptance exam a trial by fire.

Arrr, Arren't you that group of defenders plagued by failures?


Also, Arrrr.

Failures? Not hardly; we have a record of 29 successful missions and zero unsuccessful ones since starting in January.

Ummm, you're as bad at math as you are at defending.

What are you insinuating? Back up your statements before insulting us, please.

I take it the Freedom Fighters are not part of the Freedom Alliance organization then?

Heh, Freedom Fighters. These are the same guys who go around invading regions every night for no reason whatsover. I just watched them invade three regions when absolutely nothing was going on. Once they found out that no one cared they would leave. I can't figure out what they're defending against. :lol: They act more like the AA did in the early days, training their forces on unused regions before going after the large ones.

I agree with nothing, poor math skills.

I disagree. They have done some useful things, and it is better to mean well than terrorise regions pointlessly, as the crashers do.

Tactical Grace
UN Delegate / Minister of War / Defence Consultancy
Mercia The Next Generation (http://www.nationstates.net/cgi-bin/index.cgi/target=display_region/region=Mercia_The_Next_Generation)

I disagree. They have done some useful things, and it is better to mean well than terrorise regions pointlessly, as the crashers do.

I never indicated what they were doing wasn't useful. What they are doing is as useful as what region crashers do.
This is a game, it is meant for enjoyment. If no one got enjoyment from this game no one would play it. If crashing regions for no reason is what allows you to enjoy the game, more power to you. If entering a region and "terrorizing" it pointlessly is how enjoy the game, more power to you. I just feel that what the ADN is doing is more the later (terrorizing it pointlessley) than the former.

The point is to Drink and enjoy (TM) The Sirius Cybernetics Corporation.

What are you insinuating? Back up your statements before insulting us, please.

I could ask the same of you.

Since this is likely to reach the ears of someone who knows, how come Freedom Fighters has a policy of not liberating regions already invaded? Its been the case several times that puppets of mine were refused aid in libewrating regions they were in, Ios most recently, because "we dont really go into regions after theyve been invaded"

Freedom Fighters put's good crashers out of work. Just look what happened to Frith.

Since this is likely to reach the ears of someone who knows, how come Freedom Fighters has a policy of not liberating regions already invaded? Its been the case several times that puppets of mine were refused aid in libewrating regions they were in, Ios most recently, because "we dont really go into regions after theyve been invaded"
Because it wouldn't be easy. They don't have a 28-3 record becuase they try difficult things. They have that record because they only go after slam dunks. Their invasion organization is very large and is active right about the update time so it makes it easy to invade when the opposition isn't very skillful. They have the numbers to invade any region but not the skill.


Freedom Fighters put's good crashers out of work. Just look what happened to Frith.

Hate to disagree but Freedom Fighter invaders put bad region crashers out of work. I can only assume they don't like the competition.

Fodla = Me btw, bloody logged in as a puppet again.

Yeah I guess thats it, I wonder what type of spin they will try to put on it, or if they will just pretend it was never said?

What are you insinuating? Back up your statements before insulting us, please.

I could ask the same of you.

Now why do yall have to make this so difficult.
Since becoming the FF, We've sucessfully defended:
China
· 1-11-04

00000000000
· 1-12-04

A Pretty Good Region
· 1-16-04
· Alliance of Imperials

Freedom Fighters
· 1-22-04
· The Quareling States

Minnesota
· 1-22-04
· Alliance of Imperials
· Delegate woke up, kicked invaders

Realm of Cynicaly Equal States
· 1-23-04
· Alliance of Imperils
· Won 23-7

Zulu Islands
· 1-24-04

Gondor
· 1-25-04
· Invaders Empire

00 A The Stormy Seas of Storms
· 1-27-04

Shadow Realms
· 1-31-04

Heaven
· 2-1-04
· Won 12-11
· Frith Mercenary Corp
· Unknown invaders

The Big One
· 2-3-04
· Won 24-8

The United States
· 2-4-04
· Ceaser Caslte
· Empire of What Ever
· Alliance of Imperials

LUE
· 2-6-04
· Empire of What Ever
· Won 23-3

Communism
· 2-7-04
· The Quareling States
· Delegate Controls Off

Strongbadia
· 2-8-04
· Frith Mercenary Corp
· Scared Invaders Away When We Arrived

Kockatoo
· 2-11-04
· Frith Mercenary Corp
· Founder Came Back After We Took Delegacy

United States
· 2-13-04
· Won 50-15
· Taken back by Benjamin Franklin on 2-19-04

Arsenal
· 2-14-04
· Invaders Empire
· Won 19-14

Alliance of Socialist States
· 2-15-04
· GLA Lead

Vancouver
· 2-16-04

Peace
· 2-18-04
· Diablos
· Frith Mercenary Corp
· Won 18-10

Absinthe
· 2-22-04
· Invaders Empire
· Won 13-4
· All but one FF nation

Purgatory

Middle Earth
· 2-28-04
· 53-10
· Alliance of Imperials

Alabama
· 3-3-04
· Alliance of Imperials

California
· 3-4-04
· 19-3
· The Desolated Lands(ally of The Sadistic Empire)

Beer
· 3-6-04
· 25-9
· Invaders Empire

And Most recently,
Byzantium
· 3-7-04
· 10-5
· Polish Mafia
----------------------------------------


As for the question by Siswai, we try, if a region is already under the control of invaders, not to get involved without adequate intel and an acceptable exit strategy... *coughUnlike Bush! cough* Ahem, excuse me there, must have gotten some oil caught in my throat.

Very early in our organization we learned the dangers of going in without adequate intel, this was back in the days that we were FPA by the way, and the backlash that could come from either a flawed withdrawl strategy, where we were stuck in a region for days waiting for a native to become delegate, or a successful withdrawl, to watch as the natives squabbled with each other for a few days, and within the week invaders were back in power. Does that anwser your question? If not, feel free to sign on our forums or send a TG because it's taken me 45 minutes just to get this one reply through the NS server. :evil:

Wow, what an unimpressive list. Do you ever invade regions with more than 6 people in them? It probably took more work to type that list than it did to invade those regions. Good thing for you there's 1000 other regions with 5 nations. You'll have something to keep you occupied for months. :roll:

Wow, what an unimpressive list. Do you ever invade regions with more than 6 people in them? It probably took more work to type that list than it did to invade those regions. Good thing for you there's 1000 other regions with 5 nations. You'll have something to keep you occupied for months. :roll:

Lol, at least you're an entertaining troll. :wink:

In each of those regions there was a successful defense. A. We supported the native delegate until they woke up and kicked the invaders. B. We went in and kicked the invaders, and then gave way to a native delegate to assume control.

Oh and thanks...I thought this thread would just fall off the front page pretty quick, but with yall around, lookin' mighty fine now. :wink:

Correct me if I am wrong, but aren't you a spliter group of the organization begun to take down Francos Spain? If so, and I am in fact not wrong, this glaring failure should also be listed in your history of accomplishments.

Freedom Fighters = Just another Invader Group trying to make themselves look kosher. :roll:

<Spin Mode>

In each of those regions there was a successful defense. A. We supported the native delegate until they woke up and kicked the invaders. B. We went in and kicked the invaders, and then gave way to a native delegate to assume control.

</Spin Mode>

:lol: Now I see how you can claim your record. Hey, did you know I'm actually Mel Gibson? :lol:


Oh and thanks...I thought this thread would just fall off the front page pretty quick, but with yall around, lookin' mighty fine now.


No Problem. I'm just "defending" your thread against obscurity. It's a difficult job but I'm up to the task. :wink:

No way, I'm Mel Gibson.

Does anyone have any arguments of substance against the Freedom Fighters, or is this just a pie throwing contest?

Ballotonia

And Mel Gibson says:

Does anyone have any arguments of substance against the Freedom Fighters, or is this just a pie throwing contest?

Ballotonia

Aye, I have some words, it is the ADN that seeks to take our regions from us while our women and children sleep. The enemy that will take our autonomy from all who dare cross her path. "Ye shall have democracy or ye shall have a tortuous death residing in the rejected realms" THAT is the ADN cry. A manner of people so corrupt that they will lie, cheat, and steal in order to maintain the power they imagine so dearly in their hearts.

Fret not though for we have weapons against these corrupted souls. The power of broterhood, the power of independance, the power of honesty, the power of independent thought. Dark will the day be that they are capable of stripping these weapons from us for on that day we will truly be without a defense. We must ever FIGHT these demons that proclaim their superiority over our blood lines.

Fight the ADN and you may die. Run, and you'll live. At least a while. And dying in your beds, many years from now, would you be willing to trade all the days from this day to that...for one chance...just ONE CHANCE to come back here to tell our enemy that they may take our lives, but they will never take OUR FREEDOM!!!

Does anyone have any arguments of substance against the Freedom Fighters, or is this just a pie throwing contest?

Ballotonia

Looks like it's just a pie throwing contest, but I'm quite a bit of fun here lol. :wink:

Let's see, C--Span, I don't blame ya for your ignorance. <puts on spectacles and gets out chalk board> Alright, history lesson time, there'll be a quiz thursday. The Freedom Fighters is a successor/splinter group of the Free Pacific Army, which was a successor to the Pacific Army. The main goal of the Pacific Army was regional defense, and later it changed to taking back the Pacific as it changed into the Free Pacific Army. The Free Pacific Army was headed by The Savage Lands, and once he left the game, with a bang I will add, the FPA splintered into two groups. Freedom Fighters, which went back to our roots as a defensive army, and The Heart Of The Pacific, which was solely dedicated to freeing the Pacific.


And as for you Mel! Well, I'll match your Gibson with a George S. Patton.

You are here today for three reasons. First, because you are here to defend your homes and your loved ones. Second, you are here for your own self respect, because you would not want to be anywhere else. Third, you are here because you are real patriots and all real patriots like to fight. We have the finest training, the finest equipment, the best spirit, and the best people in the world. Why, by God, I actually pity those poor sons-of-bitches we're going up against. By God, I do. Every single soldier in this Army plays a vital role. Don't ever let up. Don't ever think that your job is unimportant. Every soldier has a job to do and they must do it. Every soldier is a vital link in the great chain. Every soldier does their job. Every soldier serves the whole. Every department, every unit, is important in the vast scheme of this war. Each soldier must not think only of themselves, but also of their buddy fighting beside them, and the people they’re going to protect. We don't want yellow cowards in this Army. They should be killed off like rats. If not, they will go home after this war and breed more cowards. The brave men will breed more brave men. Kill off the Goddamned cowards and we will have a nation of brave men. You may be thankful that when you are sitting in the forums and are asked what you did in the great wars against the invaders, you WON'T have to cough, shift around and say, "Well, I was cooling my heels, sitting on home guard in my own region.” No sir, you can look your listeners in the eye and say, “Son, I rode with the Great Freedom Fighters in the midst of battle, against the invaders…and rode them down like wheat to the reaper! And by god I’d do it again in a heartbeat!”


And I'll raise you, a John Stuart Mill!
"War is an ugly thing, but not the ugliest of things. The decayed and degraded state of moral and patriotic feeling which thinks that nothing is worth war is much worse. The person who has nothing for which he is willing to fight, nothing which is more important than his own personal safety, is a miserable creature, and has no chance of being free unless made or kept so by the exertions of better men than himself."

Gahh! :x

No offense Talk, but I hate it when my UN nation is counted as a member of a region that it's not a member of (usually MTGN and FF).

I don't know how many times I'll have to explain that the only reason I've merely defended regions so far is because I can not get enough UN members to join me for an attack, and I don't want to be counted as a member of say the Atlantic alliance or Farktopia than I do of a defender organization, thus I don't join them. :evil: :evil: :evil:

If you want to sucessfully invade regions you must first embrace the power of Hippos. Once you fully understand their largeness then you may gain the knowledge to defeat all enemies.

Gahh! :x

No offense Talk, but I hate it when my UN nation is counted as a member of a region that it's not a member of (usually MTGN and FF).

I don't know how many times I'll have to explain that the only reason I've merely defended regions so far is because I can not get enough UN members to join me for an attack, and I don't want to be counted as a member of say the Atlantic alliance or Farktopia than I do of a defender organization, thus I don't join them. :evil: :evil: :evil:

Eh? We didn't count ya as a member, I know at least, that you're a free agent. A bit of a loose cannon ya know. :wink:

<shrugs> Well, ya won't get rid of that defender reputation without invadin' a few times ya know lol. So gather your friends, we'll have a party in a region, and by mornin' we'll see who's left standing and sober.


As for the Hippos....I only bow down if it flies. And that's only for my own sense of self preservation lol. And besides...how many damned times do I have to say we don't invade regions, we defend them. I'd think that INVADE would look rather dissimilar to DEFEND....now I know it's hard to tell them apart, each having the same number of letters, but I know they're different words, made up of different letters, that might give ya a clue that they aren't interchangeable in most situations lol. :wink:

The only difference between what you do and what I do is that you leave the region sooner.

Also Hippos can fly, how do you think they got here from France?

Well, if we're going to be condescending then....

I present to you your honor that the ADN is indeed an invasion organization. I will prove beyond a shadow of a doubt that although my esteemed colleague wishes to cast himself in some other role other than he is a part of the most elite of NationStates players known as "Invading Region Crashers".

Sirs, my colleauge has presented the court with the notion that his organization is what he refers to as a "Defender Group" and not an "invasion group". His statement "And besides...how many damned times do I have to say we don't invade regions, we defend them" although being quite crass does indeed represent his intent. As proof of this theorem he offers the following "I'd think that INVADE would look rather dissimilar to DEFEND....now I know it's hard to tell them apart, each having the same number of letters, but I know they're different words, made up of different letters, that might give ya a clue that they aren't interchangeable in most situations".

Really your honor, maybe in some rain forest somewhere or in some backwoods parts of Kentucky my colleague would be able to astound the locals with his displayed grasp of spelling and counting. Perhaps some of the more learned among them may even be shocked at his profound knowledge of how to apply the words in various situations. I present that what seems to have slipped his grasp is being able to assemble letters into a coherent string and be able to define the letters as they are arranged just so.

Fortunately with the assistance of a reference manual of the english language (known to many members of this court as a dictionary) we can present the definitions of these characters in this particular order. I would like to offer this to the court as exhibit A.

Defend
v. de·fend·ed, de·fend·ing, de·fends
v. tr.
1. To make or keep safe from danger, attack, or harm.

Invade
Pronunciation Key (n-vd)
v. in·vad·ed, in·vad·ing, in·vades
v. tr.
1. To enter by force with the intent to conquer

*hands definitions to baliff*

My assumption at this point is that most of the court, excluding my colleague of course, is familiar with the words used in the definitons. Assuming this we can now examine these definitions more closely in order disprove my colleagues initial assumption. In order to "defend" something one needs to protect an object from danger, attack, or harm. Let's hold the ADN up to that light and see how they pass this test.

Does the ADN keep a region safe from Danger? To answer this we must more closely examine what is meant by danger. An object is said to be in danger when it is possibly going to be harmed. How can one harm a region in NationStates? Either by destroying a region physically (i.e. - ejecting everyone) or by destroying a region by removing the regions will to continue playing. Now I will grant the court I have not witnessed the ADN destroying a region physically so their presence may indeed accomplish this. However the ADN has a propensity to force regions to a democratic system even when the region does not wish this to be the case. If the region plays the game such that democracy is not the government style they wish to participate in then this could cause players distress and make them want to leave the region. I would argue based on this that the mere precence of the ADN is a danger to the region and therefore it is impossible that the ADN could keep a region safe from danger.

Does the ADN keep the region free from attack? The ADN occupies a region and takes over the delegate position with one of their own members. This is an attack. Therefore the ADN by occupying a region is not keeping the region safe from attack but rather institutes attacks.

Does the ADN keep the region free from harm? As stated previously, the mere precense of the ADN can cause a region irreperable damage and therefore the ADN can not keep a region from harm as their occupation of a region causes harm.

So what does this prove? This proves the ADN can not be a defender force as the mere precense of the ADN voids the definition of defense. But that's only part of the equation. Is the ADN truly an invasion force? Let us see.

Does the ADN ener a region by force with intent to conquer? Indeed, there is no other way for them to function. By flooding a region while the delegate or founder is not active and therefore incapable of mounting a defense they are indeed entering a region by force. Further they are removing the previous delegate from their seat and placing their own delegate on that thrown. This, by any definition is conquering.

Further, the authorites of NationStates holds the ADN to invasion rules and classifies them as invaders. Since the governing body of the NationStates Universe classifies them as so is it possible that by the ADN claiming that they are a "Defender" group makes it true? I would hope the court would agree with me that this is utterly ridiculous.

So what have we learned here today? First we learned that simply lining up letters and counting them does not prove a point. Secondly we have learned that the ADN does not fit the defition of "defender" and therefore can not be classified as such. Thirdly we have learned that the ADN does fit the definition of "invader" and can be classified in that category. And finally, NationsStates itself defines them as invaders. If it further pleases the court I would like to present that Hippos do indeed fly on occasion and therefore my colleague should be weary of them.

I rest my case.

*applause*

That was an amazing representation of proving that defenders are invaders. However, we already knew.... By definition of NS moderators(and toughed on by you) Defenders are not natives, therefore they are invaders. This has been known the entire time. What you failed to point out however is that and invader(by NS definition) intends to conquer and command its invasion target.... This is in fact the exact opposite of what the FF, ADN, and other defender organizations do. They do conquer the region, I will give you that, but that is only in the case that they delegate(or founder) is inactive and therefore(also pointed out by you) is unable to defend itself. If the delegate(or founder) is active, we endorse that nation. If not, we select a nation to be the delegate for one day, so that regional controls can be accessed, and the hostile invaders ejected. Then we leave. Now, no where in there did I mention the fact that the defender intented to command the region. This is in fact becuase we do not control the region. It is free to proceed as it did in the past as nothing within the region is changed, with the exception of the name after "UN Delegate:" And that is only temporary, usually lasting less than 12 hours. After which all defenders(unless inactive themselves)leave the region, and proceed to their respective homes.

One more note I would like to add, is that we do not play NS by the english definitions of every word. This is the case with INVADER and DEFENDER. Which I believe is what Talkos was trying to illustrate earlier.

Speaking for MTNG, we never pretended to be a purely defensive outfit. Otherwise, what were we doing in Blue Moon, The Pacific, LUE, France, etc? No, I would characterise us as semi-moralistic mercenaries. If we like the look of a battle and/or identify with one side of it, we will join in, even if the mission at hand is deposing an incumbent Delegate. We do that too. And yes, we are members of the ADN, and I doubt any of the regions within it would have a problem with the idea of occasionally conducting an invasion if it means doing what we would consider to be the Right Thing (and yes, I do know how tenuous a concept that can be).

If in accusing the ADN of occasionally being invasive, you are attempting to imply that it is automatically evil or indulging in hypocracy, you are missing the point. No defender organisation pretends to be completely noble and pure. Accept us defenders for what we are.

Tactical Grace
UN Delegate / Minister of War / Defence Consultancy
Mercia The Next Generation (http://www.nationstates.net/cgi-bin/index.cgi/target=display_region/region=Mercia_The_Next_Generation)

Well put Tactial Grace, well put. :)

................... we select a nation to be the delegate for one day, so that regional controls can be accessed, and the hostile invaders ejected. Then we leave. Now, no where in there did I mention the fact that the defender intented to command the region. This is in fact becuase we do not control the region. It is free to proceed as it did in the past as nothing within the region is changed, with the exception of the name after "UN Delegate:" And that is only temporary, usually lasting less than 12 hours. After which all defenders(unless inactive themselves)leave the region, and proceed to their respective homes....................

I could call some witness from some of the regions you've defended that will refute that claim. You can deny that you are an invader all you want (I think we'll all agree the line is rather fuzzy), but to post sonething that you know is an outright lie doesn't help your reputation.

The Desolated Lands(ally of The Sadistic Empire)

Hell No is my region allied that bands of failed griefers :x

*applause*


*Bows*
Thank you, thank you very much. I always enjoy when I get to argue something in a court of law and people can appreciate it.


That was an amazing representation of proving that defenders are invaders. However, we already knew.... By definition of NS moderators(and toughed on by you) Defenders are not natives, therefore they are invaders. This has been known the entire time.

Excellent! We are in agreement. However since you haven't been in this conversation up until this point I will assume that this has always been the case. Are you friends with Talkos? If so, could you break it to him?(Gently, Talkos appears to be in a state of denial :wink: )


What you failed to point out however is that and invader(by NS definition) intends to conquer and command its invasion target....

My dear friend, if we intend to carry on a conversation in an agreed upon language (assuming English) then one must adhere to the definitions and rules of said language. If you would like to redefine words then I believe the honus is on you and your colleagues to perform said redefintion before the conversation takes place otherwise we spend inordinate amounts of time talking past each other.


This is in fact the exact opposite of what the FF, ADN, and other defender organizations do. They do conquer the region, I will give you that, but that is only in the case that they delegate(or founder) is inactive and therefore(also pointed out by you) is unable to defend itself. If the delegate(or founder) is active, we endorse that nation. If not, we select a nation to be the delegate for one day, so that regional controls can be accessed, and the hostile invaders ejected. Then we leave.

One day? Is this a recent event? And how long were you in the United States before the residents of that region were able to take the region back from you? That question is rhetorical. It was over one day with no end in sight when the ADN was booted from the region.


Now, no where in there did I mention the fact that the defender intented to command the region.

And yet your mere precense as the holder of regional controls requires this.


This is in fact becuase we do not control the region.

See just above.


It is free to proceed as it did in the past as nothing within the region is changed, with the exception of the name after "UN Delegate:" And that is only temporary, usually lasting less than 12 hours. After which all defenders(unless inactive themselves)leave the region, and proceed to their respective homes.

So it's free to proceed as it did except that they no longer have the ability to manage their region and the ADN boots anyone they feel is "naughty". I think you may be redefining the word "control" as well.


One more note I would like to add, is that we do not play NS by the english definitions of every word. This is the case with INVADER and DEFENDER. Which I believe is what Talkos was trying to illustrate earlier.
This is fine, I have no problem with someone making up their own langauge. I remember back in elementary school me and my friends used to do it all the time. If you wish to carry on a conversation with someone outside of your group though you need to provide concrete definitions of your new words up front. Could you speak to Talkos about that? Thanks! :D

Alright, with the exception of US, we are in the region only one day. Happy Nothingg

The invaders that we eject are designated invaders before we enter the region, and are only found out about due to the fact that they have invaded regions before, or because a native delegate may have 3 endorsements, while a nation who arrived only 6-8 hours earlier has 8. Now tell, me, does that make that nation an invader or not? Therefore, they are hostile to the region, and are labeled as, "naughty."

The Desolated Lands(ally of The Sadistic Empire)
I might have been mistaken, maybe you were allied with Frith? I get everyone so confused we beat em so much. :P

As the NS mods as to what they consider an invader, they will consider any one that is not a native. Ask the dictionary, and you get:
1. To enter by force in order to conquer or pillage.
2. To encroach or intrude on; violate: “The principal of the trusts could not be invaded without trustee approval” (Barbara Goldsmith).
3. To overrun as if by invading; infest: “About 1917 the shipworm invaded the harbor of San Francisco” (Rachel Carson).
4. To enter and permeate, especially harmfully.

So as you can see, NS and RL are subtly different. Therefore the true definitions of english words, may not in fact be the same as NS definitions. Another example, the dictionary definition of a defender:
One who defends; one who maintains, supports, protects, or vindicates; a champion; an advocate; a vindicator.
The NS definition would be something similar to:
Defender - A specialized invader.

So as you put that I was making up my own language, I am just restating what others have said. You can call Webster's dictionary and ask to see if its the same, and call a mod in here to see what they say, but no, this is not my own language.

I think you may be redefining the word "control" as well.
Let me rephrase that, we do not exert control over the natives of a region, even though we have it.

Are you friends with Talkos?
YES! He's my Second in Command. And he knows, we all know, although some can work their way out of it, without calling themselves invaders. It's just easier when talking with invaders is all.

A coupla things Hrmmm.

1. You either drawn the line or you don't.

TG's arguements were the most logical. THe ones that you try to make "in the interest of the natives" don't hold up when you begin making exceptions.

2. So you don't uset the XML datafeed to detemine invaders? Just those somehow deemed "hostile"?

That explains why you didn't give the password to Flamingoland2, the most senior nation in LUE (and a non-UN nation), as well as several other nations when you "defended" it.

Peace, Truth, and Justice,
Qaaolchoura,
Founder and Former Delegate,
Zhaucauozian Friendship (http://www.nationstates.net/cgi-bin/index.cgi/target=display_region/region=zhaucauozian_friendship)

Actually we do use the XML Datafeed, which is how we determind invaders who are not endorsing a central invasion leader. That way them come right to us. Also, we use that to determine natives. And in the case of LUE, everyone got the password that was considered a native according to the datafeed. We do not sit in each regions to determine before hand who is a native or not, we can't, or else the region will be sucessfully invaded. Gotta go. I'll finish later

And if you weren't sure you kicked them out anyway.

And if you weren't sure you kicked them out anyway.
Actually.... No, if they are unknown, they stay in the region, and given the password because they may be natives. That's how it works.

Actually we do use the XML Datafeed, which is how we determind invaders who are not endorsing a central invasion leader. That way them come right to us. Also, we use that to determine natives. And in the case of LUE, everyone got the password that was considered a native according to the datafeed. We do not sit in each regions to determine before hand who is a native or not, we can't, or else the region will be sucessfully invaded. Gotta go. I'll finish later
Odd, Flamingoland2, most senor nation asked for tha password that he could invite a friend in. Do you check to see that the TMs are sent? :? Often I think I send a TM, but have an invalid session, and almost overlook it.
Edit: Sorry, not second, first, my puppet is second most senior.

Actually we do use the XML Datafeed, which is how we determind invaders who are not endorsing a central invasion leader. That way them come right to us. Also, we use that to determine natives. And in the case of LUE, everyone got the password that was considered a native according to the datafeed. We do not sit in each regions to determine before hand who is a native or not, we can't, or else the region will be sucessfully invaded. Gotta go. I'll finish later
Odd, Flamingoland2, second most senor nation asked for tha password that he could invite a friend in. Do you check to see that the TMs are sent? :? Often I think I send a TM, but have an invalid session, and almost overlook it.
That was a long time ago. You can check the date, we've done a lot since then, so I don't remember the exact details. But that nation, at least to my knowledge, asked for the password. But my memmory could have failed me.

And if you weren't sure you kicked them out anyway.
Actually.... No, if they are unknown, they stay in the region, and given the password because they may be natives. That's how it works.

Once again, why would you post a blatent lie? Several natives that you kicked out didn't get the password until they came on the forum and complained about you.

Alright, obviously you are not understanding me. Those ejected we suspected invaders. Therefore, why the heck would I give them the password. If they were found to be natives, they were given the password immediately.

And then again, several invaders came to the forum and complained about me also....

You had no idea who the natives were. You threw out everyone except your friends. Some natives didn't recieve the password for almost a week. The natives actually had to gang up on you and kick you out in the middle of the night to get you to leave.

You are once again proving my point. We didn't know who the natives were. Therefore they didn't get the password. Doesn't make much sense to give it to a bunch of invaders does it? US was the only exception to everything I've said. This was a much different mission than anything we have ever done. So would you get off it! Yeah, maybe somethings diferent were done there. But that doesn't reflect on how we operate in the FF. If you notice, I have 50+ endorsements. From all different organizations. Some were natives, some were ADN, NPA, RRA, FF, Equilism, SECO, TITO, etc.... It is impossible to work through everything with so many organizations working so closly together. If you'd ask the mods who was a native, they wouldn't be able to tell you either. They were having just a hard of time as I was. Why doesn't one of them post on here about that, just to get the point across to Nothingg, who's having a hard time comprehending.

Actually.... No, if they are unknown, they stay in the region, and given the password because they may be natives. That's how it works.

Followed by

You are once again proving my point. We didn't know who the natives were. Therefore they didn't get the password.

You seem to be the one that's confused. You can't keep up with all the lies you're telling.

US was the only exception to everything I've said. This was a much different mission than anything we have ever done. So would you get off it! Yeah, maybe somethings diferent were done there. But that doesn't reflect on how we operate in the FF.

Forget how to read?

Actually we do use the XML Datafeed, which is how we determind invaders who are not endorsing a central invasion leader. That way them come right to us. Also, we use that to determine natives. And in the case of LUE, everyone got the password that was considered a native according to the datafeed. We do not sit in each regions to determine before hand who is a native or not, we can't, or else the region will be sucessfully invaded. Gotta go. I'll finish later
Odd, Flamingoland2, second most senor nation asked for tha password that he could invite a friend in. Do you check to see that the TMs are sent? :? Often I think I send a TM, but have an invalid session, and almost overlook it.

Looks like US wasn't the only exception. Try again.

Actually we do use the XML Datafeed, which is how we determind invaders who are not endorsing a central invasion leader. That way them come right to us. Also, we use that to determine natives. And in the case of LUE, everyone got the password that was considered a native according to the datafeed. We do not sit in each regions to determine before hand who is a native or not, we can't, or else the region will be sucessfully invaded. Gotta go. I'll finish later
Odd, Flamingoland2, second most senor nation asked for tha password that he could invite a friend in. Do you check to see that the TMs are sent? :? Often I think I send a TM, but have an invalid session, and almost overlook it.

Looks like US wasn't the only exception. Try again.
A minor correction: I was getting it's senioity confused with my puppet's Flamingoland2 is most senior.

Also, it could have been an honest mistake. It may have gotten pushed out of FL2's telegrams, or Hrmm may have thought that it was sent when it wasn't.
When it comes to invader vs defender, I like playing Devil's advocate somewhat.

Actually we do use the XML Datafeed, which is how we determind invaders who are not endorsing a central invasion leader. That way them come right to us. Also, we use that to determine natives. And in the case of LUE, everyone got the password that was considered a native according to the datafeed. We do not sit in each regions to determine before hand who is a native or not, we can't, or else the region will be sucessfully invaded. Gotta go. I'll finish later
Odd, Flamingoland2, second most senor nation asked for tha password that he could invite a friend in. Do you check to see that the TMs are sent? :? Often I think I send a TM, but have an invalid session, and almost overlook it.

Looks like US wasn't the only exception. Try again.
A minor correction: I was getting it's senioity confused with my puppet's Flamingoland2 is most senior.

Also, it could have been an honest mistake. It may have gotten pushed out of FL2's telegrams, or Hrmm may have thought that it was sent when it wasn't.
When it comes to invader vs defender, I like playing Devil's advocate somewhat.
It should have never happened there, thanks Qaaolchoura for pointing that out. It's too far off, but I remember sending the password to all of the natives. I can't tell who is the most senior, but that nation should have gotten it. If not, I appologize, although it's too late.

It should have never happened there, thanks Qaaolchoura for pointing that out. It's too far off, but I remember sending the password to all of the natives. I can't tell who is the most senior, but that nation should have gotten it. If not, I appologize, although it's too late.

Seniority, or at least continued seniority is determined by highes up on the XML datafeed.

There are some exceptions.

Obviously, I'm the most senior nation in ZF, even though I'm near the bottom, having founded it.

Similarly, Moldaria is actually the most senior naton in LUE, but most people might not know that, and I justgave Flamingoland2's seniority by the datafeed. Moldaria and LUE I are more senior than Flamingo.

Pehaps, you had "request failed a security check" (which looks remarkably like "message sent", so if you're trying to send TMs you may have a few of those)?

Like I said, too far off, I can't remember now.

*applause*

That was an amazing representation of proving that defenders are invaders. However, we already knew.... By definition of NS moderators(and toughed on by you) Defenders are not natives, therefore they are invaders. This has been known the entire time.

Actually, if you follow the debate closely, as I do, you will see this is generally argued by defenders, for some reason. I imagine a couple others have admitted it before, but you are the first defender I have seen so far to admit this.


Speaking for MTNG, we never pretended to be a purely defensive outfit. Otherwise, what were we doing in Blue Moon, The Pacific, LUE, France, etc? No, I would characterise us as semi-moralistic mercenaries. If we like the look of a battle and/or identify with one side of it, we will join in, even if the mission at hand is deposing an incumbent Delegate. We do that too. And yes, we are members of the ADN, and I doubt any of the regions within it would have a problem with the idea of occasionally conducting an invasion if it means doing what we would consider to be the Right Thing (and yes, I do know how tenuous a concept that can be).

I think that the MTNG sounds a lot more honest then other defenders groups, admitting that you have an agenda in the game.



If in accusing the ADN of occasionally being invasive, you are attempting to imply that it is automatically evil or indulging in hypocracy, you are missing the point. No defender organisation pretends to be completely noble and pure. Accept us defenders for what we are.


I’ve spoken to enough defenders to know you are absolutely wrong. Many do claim to be non-invasive.

Alright, obviously you are not understanding me. Those ejected we suspected invaders. Therefore, why the heck would I give them the password. If they were found to be natives, they were given the password immediately.

And then again, several invaders came to the forum and complained about me also....

Then you would have to admit that you are invasive, and can cause stress on the natives while you put them through the test? This would be honest, and somewhat understandable, but seems a bit different then how you had describe your group.

Actually, if you follow the debate closely, as I do, you will see this is generally argued by defenders, for some reason. I imagine a couple others have admitted it before, but you are the first defender I have seen so far to admit this.
Glad I could be the first, hope to not be the last.

I’ve spoken to enough defenders to know you are absolutely wrong. Many do claim to be non-invasive.
Some do go on the offensive if needed, and requested by natives. It has been done in the past, and many organizations have special teams for this.

Then you would have to admit that you are invasive, and can cause stress on the natives while you put them through the test? This would be honest, and somewhat understandable, but seems a bit different then how you had describe your group.
Oh, I never said it wasn't stressful on the natives, but that is why we get in, defend the region, eject the invaders, and leave. Quickly is the key, less stress on the natives then.