NationStates Jolt Archive

The following is a rough list for the United States region. Please feel free to refine, clarify, or object to any entries that you feel are incorrect. Only nations present on or before February 12, 2004 (when the ADN ariived) are included on this list.

The list is broken up into:


-known natives
-probable natives
-possible natives
-natives that supported the invaders
-probable/possible natives that supported the invaders
-nations that wandered in while the password was down and ended up supporting the invaders/probable invaders/possible invaders
-total unknowns
-known invaders

Feedback and refinement would be good, ie confirmation of probable/possible natives as natives. Truth is, I was only in the United States for less than a month before Of the People was deleted, which is why I'm not sure about some nations.
I have included UN membership markers where appropiate.
I have placed a * by the name if the nation has been moved between catagories due to a mistake on my part.

- Known Natives -
Air Strip Two
Mattcorp (UN)
Kevin Wood (UN)
Trekkers (UN)
Democratic Colonies (UN)
Asia45 (UN)
Moderator Malice (UN)
Andistine (UN)
CosmicStarLight (UN)

- Probable Natives -
Benwah (UN)
The Orion Nebula
Shining America United
Ulysses S Grant

- Possible Natives -
The Louisiana Purchase
Andrew Jackson
The Thomas Jefferson (UN)
Kucinich
Blight

- Natives that Supported the Invaders -
Major Tom (UN)
-Iowa- (UN)
Benjamin Franklin (UN)

- Probable/Possible Natives that Supported the Invaders -
Teddy Roosevelt (UN)
John Kerry (UN)
Otto Skorzeny

- nations that wandered in while the password was down and ended up supporting the invaders/probable invaders/possible invaders -
Afghani Poppy Farmers
Church and State
Anbar (UN)
Art Frahm
Sea King
Snake n Bacon

- Total Unknowns -
Stalingradski
Smart Voters vs Bush
Existential Blues
Sovyetskie uspekhi
The Scilly Islands
Walter Koenig
Fovarien (UN)
Shanghaisville
The Mustang
Viti-3
The NS Invaders
Iliadica
Julius but not Caesar
Mr Rourke
Dunkelheit (UN)

- Known Invaders -
Nothingg (UN)
Kamloopa (UN)
Liberated Womyn (UN)
Little Tokyo (UN)


- The following nations have objected to thier placements -
Musez - I have removed Musez from the "Natives who supported the invaders" catagory, although I have not yet placed him elsewhere. I now believe that I was mistaken to place him in that catagory, as he claims that he had to pretend to support them to avoid getting ejected. I am awaiting a confirmation telegram from Andistine, who Musez claims to have supported. Once that confirmation has been recieved, then Musez will be moved to "Known Natives". I apologize for any offense or inconvience I may have caused.

Invaders from the first invasion and the second

Architeuthis
Archerutis
Le French Stereotypes
Little Tokyo
Liberated Womyn
John Kerry
French Supremacy
Francophonies
Existential Blues
Nothingg
of OF of Of of Of the People Q
Scurvy People
Sea King
Aquatic French
The Early French
The French Mistake
The Louisiana Purchase
The Mustang
Ulysses S Grant
The NS Invaders
Anbar

Most of the uknowns recently came and are not natives.

This looks pretty acurate.

The Orion Nebula is an invader
Ulysses S Grant=Ben Fralkin
Viti-3=AA AMBASSADOR
Musez=Native

and the rest of em...look pretty good.

Trekkers

Musez is no native.....

The Kingdom of Spaceisland and of Musez
Received: 3 hours ago Who asked the RRA to help the US?

Musez
Co-FA President

How is Musez a native? From the log of people moving in and out, he came in after the invaders and is with the FA.

More from me in a minute. In the meantime, many thanks to DC for posting this here. It's worth keeping an eye on, as the defenders wish to clean things up legally and remaining true to the wishes of the natives.

good list garrison II

Nothingg? Archieous or whatever it's spelled?

The true 100NoC are still around. How fun.

They were, at least until Arch got himself deleted for some unknown reason. Anyone know what happened there by the way?

^No idea what happened to Arch. I have some questions though.

1) Is Musez a native?

2) Is The Louisiana Purchase a native?

3) Can someone confirm or deny Viti-3's postition as an AA agent?

Thank you. The writing of this list is an ongoing effort, so any contributions are appriciated.

However, for reasons of validity and to ensure an accurate list, I propose that a nation must have atleast two testimonies for moving it from one catagory to another for it to be moved.

3) Can someone confirm or deny Viti-3's postition as an AA agent?

Would that make any flipping difference to my status at all?


I'm a native. Now give me the password to the region, Hrmmm.

What a humorous little thread of lies. Despite how horribly it's maiming the US, we (OOC: Anbar is a collective) are enjoying watching a "defender" dance at the whims of a known cheater and despot. Now here's what's really going on, if any of you have the guts to read something not from Garrison or Democratic Colonies.

The United States once had one of Trekker's many puppets as delegate. For a long time, he got to be king. Then, he was caught multi-ing and was deleted. The natives then elected Benjamin Franklin, after discussing just who ought to take over. Franklin seemed interesting, and though the US had been a stagnant region under OTP, it seemed to benefit from Franklin's wisdom, and seemed to be becoming a better place. We then began to consider moving in. The US had been a sham before that, nothing more than a prize for Trekker's little FA group. We liked the change that Franklin seemed to offer.

Meanwhile, Trekkers, DC, and Andistine would periodically show up and demand that Trekkers be given the delegacy back. They insisted that all policies established under Trekkers remain in place for the region's benefit (which was funny, because no one but these three ever said anything to support Trekkers or his policies). Franklin let them speak, because it was their right in a free region. In fact, the only reason that Trekkers was there in the first place was because Franklin allowed his puppet to entire the US, from a different region, after he cheated and demanded to be let back in.

Franklin then went relatively inactive, and we cannot speak for what he did at this time, aside from screening us and after verifying our intentions, allowed us into the region. At some point, it seems that several French nations entered as well, which Trekker's minions did not like (this was clear from their incessant whining). This is where Garrison II actually becomes involved. No, he's not a native (which is why it boggles our mind that his blacklists are being given any attention), but he started whining to the moderators that an invasion had taken place. Nevermind that the French had come in after Franklin was elected, and we never saw a UN nation among them, but he tried to appeal to the mods to overthrow a regionally elected delegate on Trekkers's behalf. Check his threads above, and you'll see that the mods said it and the other forum users said it: Garrison had no grounds on which to demand moderator action. And so he, Trekkers, and the rest of their FA ilk schemed.

Then, after a few more actions occured that the FA was displeased about, Architeuthis took over the delegacy from a long inactive Franklin. This doubled the whining of DC and Trekkers because now there really was an invasion taking place. DC then complained until the password was taken down, and then wave after wave of FA invaders came in, presumably to try to restore Trekkers. DC then blamed all the resulting chaos on Architeuthis, who was doing everything he could, without a password, to keep the invaders at bay.

After a time, someone (presumeably DC) filed a mod report saying that Architeuthis was booting out too many nations for the region's size. Nevermind that the region was being counter-invaded and that no natives were being ejected or banned, but apparently some mod didn't follow up on that and deleted Architeuthis. Invasion then followed, and now ADN's delegate, who apparently is on the puppet strings of Trekkers and has the integrity of a stick, is ejecting any native who DC and Garrison II has blacklisted. Hence, we're filing a mod report on that delegate. Whether or not Trekkers and his little FA minions like it, it is against the rules for an invading delegate to boot anyone who was there prior to his arrival, and pretty many nations that Hrmmm has booted had been there well before even architeuthis took power, much less Hrmmm.

We of Anbar, for example, supported Franklin during his reign and didn't support Architeuthis until after the password was dropped and it appeared that the US would be invaded as a result. Yet, we were booted out of the region. We were there before architeuthis and did not endorse him to him to overthrow Franklin, and we were booted. That's griefing, and we will see justice done. The current invader delegate is booting anyone who opposed the cheater Trekkers at any point over the last several months, and that is illegal. Can you see why we're a little upset with all of this?

We've been in this region for a long time, and watched its politics before that. We actually spoke at length with the delegates of our region, while some just whined because their commands weren't being obeyed. We've done our homework as to who is allied with whom, which seems to be more than a lot of you have done. Don't any of you find it odd that Garrison II is so deeply concerned with our region, despite not even residing there? How about how he's been demanding that Franklin be booted, despite the fact that Franklin was the native delegate? Jesus, open your eyes, what transparent manipulations you allowing. You're basically the tools by which Trekkers can settle the score with the natives who opposed his illegal actions and rule. Thank you for mucking up our region.

Your views on the rules of ejecting are a little blurred, Anbar.

The ADN, FF, RRA, NPA, SECO, TITO, GLA, and volunteer Merit forces did not show up in order to help Trekkers regain power. In fact, the FA is angry with us for not endorsing their chosen delegate. Just ask Musez, he'll tell you. He's definitely not a native, and neither are you by any account. You all entered during invasions and it's been a power struggle ever since...and one so long going and ejection packed that it's now very hard to tell who the actual natives are. We do know that DC is one of them, so why do you dispute his word?

We didn't endorse the FA's selected native. We appointed a defender delegate, so he could clean up the region of the various invaders and let the natives decide on their own who they wanted the delegate to be. We've been thanked by numerous natives.

No rules have been broken, as the defender delegate is allowed to eject defenders. It's a nice story you told us, but it's hearsay. It's sad to see this region getting fought over so hardcore, but our involvement is only temporary. We wish to get a native delegate in there ASAP. Hrmmm has done nothing wrong.

Hopefully the Mods can muck through the mess and help us discover the truth (sorry Mods lol).

It's a nice story you told us, but it's hearsay.

Hearsay is when you repeat what someone else told you. Anbar was telling his side of what was going on.

And now I see another round of ejections from Hrmmm. More nations who were not invaders are being sent to the Realms. If Architeuthis was deleted for ejecting too many nations based on the region's size, how is what Hrmmm is doing legal then? He's actually ejecting natives.

The Mods have already ruled on this. Ejecting invaders from the first, second, or third invasion is not illegal. Just because your invaders let their nations sit there in attempt to some day retake the region as you tried last night does not make you a native. No natives have yet been ejected, as the natives are in on the making of the ejection list.

Due to a few changes, I'm posting a version 1.1 of the United States Region Native/Invader ID List.

Changes in Version 1.1:
- Removal of the nations that were ejected between February 12, 2004 and 10 PM EST February 13, 2004 from the list
- Musez has been moved from ""Natives that supported the Invaders" to "Known Native". I know this is still contested, but I think he is a native, and should be treated like one for now. Read more on this at the bottom of the post.
- Ulysses S Grant and The Orion Nebula have been moved from "Probable Natives" to "Possible Natives".


- List 1.1 -
I've prepared a list of:

-known natives
-probable natives
-possible natives
-natives that supported the invaders
-probable/possible natives that supported the invaders
-nations that wandered in while the password was down and ended up supporting the invaders/probable invaders/possible invaders
-total unknowns
-known invaders

Feedback and refinement would be good, ie confirmation of probable/possible natives as natives.

Truth is, I was only in the United States for less than a month before Of the People was deleted, which is why I'm not sure about some nations.
I have included UN membership markers where appropiate.
The * indicates a move between catagories between last version and the current one.
The <> indicates a contested placement.

- Known Natives -
Air Strip Two
Mattcorp (UN)
Kevin Wood (UN)
Trekkers (UN)
Democratic Colonies (UN)
Moderator Malice (UN)
Andistine (UN)
CosmicStarLight (UN)
Musez* <>

- Probable Natives -
Benwah (UN)
Shining America United

- Possible Natives -
Andrew Jackson
The Thomas Jefferson (UN)
Kucinich
Blight
Ulysses S Grant*
The Orion Nebula*

- Natives that Supported the Invaders -
Major Tom (UN)
-Iowa- (UN)
Benjamin Franklin (UN)

- Probable/Possible Natives that Supported the Invaders -
Teddy Roosevelt (UN)

- nations that wandered in while the password was down and ended up supporting the invaders/probable invaders/possible invaders -
Afghani Poppy Farmers
Church and State
Art Frahm

- Total Unknowns -
Stalingradski
Existential Blues
Sovyetskie uspekhi
The Scilly Islands
Walter Koenig
The Mustang
Viti-3
Mr Rourke
Dunkelheit (UN)

- Known Invaders -
* I am not aware of any known invaders in the United States*

- Contested Placing -
Musez as a "Known Native" is being contested by Pope Hope. Musez as a "Known Native" is supported by Democratic Colonies, Andistine.


Now, if it would be possible to sort out if Musez is a native as quickly as possible, I believe that should be our top priority. Pope Hope, you do not believe that Musez is a native - why? Any other nations that have any thoughts about this, please post them. As for myself, I'm pretty sure I saw Musez in the United States when I first arrived, about a month, maybe less than when OTP was deleted, but I might be mistaken - although I don't think I am right now.

As always, nations are encouraged to assist in refining and correcting the list.

Your "natives" are being decided by two non-natives.

The mods say there are 4 kinds of people in an invasion: The natives, the invaders, the defenders, and the neutrals. An invader must either be a UN member endorsing the invader delegate or a plant inside the region to take it at a later date. The great majority of those you are ejecting are not UN; but you are unable to prove that they fit the second role.

<NATIONS>cosmicstarlight:air_strip_two:kucinich:major_tom:
-iowa-:kevin_wood:benjamin_franklin:moderator_malice:
democratic_colonies:the_mustang:teddy_roosevelt:church_and_state:
andrew_jackson:the_thomas_jefferson:ulysses_s_grant:
afghani_poppy_farmers:viti-3:andistine:liberated_womyn:
sea_king:existential_blues:benwah:dunkelheit:stalingradski:
little_tokyo:blight:scurvy_people:anbar:kamloopa:the_scilly_islands:
john_kerry:trekkers:smart_voters_vs_bush:snake_n_bacon:
art_frahm:sovyetskie_uspekhi:walter_koenig:shining_america_united:
mr_rourke:captain_santa_island:kakun:ancestral_recall:farkopia:
grither:adolf_bush:upstate_new_york:nadejda:prussian_free_states:
musez:king_of_ahmn:heavilyarmedrepublics:your_home_town:
trey_edwards:julies_bunny:thatguythatnobodylikes:hrmmm:get_on_it:
sancria:veegeeville:tyrantar_ii:jengaman:fox2:koller:
the_jahova_witnesses:the_light_fantastic:lusuheid:occupied_smithania:
tinkburg:arnarchotopia:drakezania:strikeforcedelta:geomania2:
dewish_intelligence:zyonn:the_dragons_shadow:chilled_muff:
whitecastle_reborn:yodastan:mouth_of_el_sabah_nur:new_tehran:
hamka:embaria:lunarivia:tygalandic_settlers:tylerdurdenia:titanica:
spatros:adn:thesensitivenewage:a_lee_project:bodakenstien:aleisyr:
rickards_red:nem:blackshear:mi-jumfut:stealth_sweepers:
shiff:flebe:talkos:dover_da:lexwolf:brinc0ff:domocile:devoid:
ananke:kokablel:nova_argyres:groovesnakistan:aylandlandfive:
marauding_horde:curaland:lieutenant_surge:bearbrass:new_sardonika:
high_gondor:warlocklord:hydor:robobia:sheik_ali_kikoyne:crackenback:
wildthingx:nulibert</NATIONS>

I posted this in Moderation as well, but it's relevant here. Do you see where Musez came in? Not to mention the fact s/he contacted me as President of the FA, very upset that the defenders were not there endorsing the FA's chosen delegate, Andistine (reportedly Musez belongs to Andistine, but that is definitely hearsay itself). Someone else came up with further proof of this, but I'll have to dig for it.

Obviously I would be biased to support defenders if I were biased at all, but our honest intention is to figure out who the actual natives are and help them appoint a native delegate, which is why we didn't endorse the FA delegate. Musez was decidely not in that region before almost anyone.

Thanks again for all the work you're doing here, DC. I know this is frustrating, because I'm trying to figure it out myself. 8)

You defenders are griefing the region. We didn't ask for you to come in. You took the word of a couple of cheaters that there was an invasion taking place. Get out.

It should be posted here the dialogue that has been going on in the region lately.

63 minutes ago The Community of Viti-3 Go away.

60 minutes ago The Federated Union of Democratic Colonies I'm about to post a version 1.1 of the United States Region Native/Invader ID List in the NationStates forums. It'll be in the same thread as the original list.

Changes from the original list:
- All nations that were previously on the list but were ejected afer Fedruary 12, 2004 have been removed from the list
- Musez has been moved from "Natives that supported the Invaders" to "Known Natives"
- Ulysses S Grant and The Orion Nebula have been moved from "Probable Natives" to "Possible Natives".

Mass ejections follow, including Viti-3

34 minutes ago The Great French Powa of The Scilly Islands I suspect I'll be ejected soon. Too bad that I'm not an invader.

29 minutes ago The Dazed and Confused Nation of Hrmmm Only invaders will be ejected....

23 minutes ago The Great French Powa of The Scilly Islands They are not invaders.

14 minutes ago The Protectorate of ADN Scilly is an invader. S/He came in with the latest wave of invaders, and has been identified as an invader by the natives.

http://www.nationstates.net/forum/viewforum.php?f=12

http://www.nationstates.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=123507

13 minutes ago The Great French Powa of The Scilly Islands Prove it, ADN. It is not your place to decide the fate of residents of this region.
8 minutes ago The Corn Capital of the World of -Iowa- Would you so called defenders get the hell out of our region? We have no need for your kind here. You are required to send the password to all natives. Immediatly. Don't make me ask you again.

5 minutes ago The Dazed and Confused Nation of Hrmmm I'm workin on finding out who for sure is a native, just hold your horses there -Iowa-

3 minutes ago The Great French Powa of The Scilly Islands You're not following the rules then. When you put a password into place you must give the password to all natives IMMEDIATELY. No ifs, ands, or buts. If you want to be clever about it and only give it to the nations DC tells you are natives, then you shouldn't have put the password on in the first place.

I have plenty of documentation from that regional board...going back to when this started. I'm not sure we should substitute this forum for the regional board to copy it all here, though.

And please once again, keep it calm. There's more than one native working through that list right now. Invaders who stuck around from the first or second invasions aren't considered natives.

Prove that I am an invader. I came to United States during its period of high growth, after I saw that it was free from Of the People.

I was never in the UN once. I could not have endorsed the delegate.

I posted infrequently on the forum.

In fact, can anyone recall when I ever DID post?

My government activity was very infrequent.


Now I am in the Rejected Realms. Prove that I am an invader.

You defenders are griefing the region. We didn't ask for you to come in. You took the word of a couple of cheaters that there was an invasion taking place. Get out.

First of all, you were endorsing the invaders, so you aren't exactly the most reliable of sources, and secondly there was an invasion taking place;

FROM THE FARKTOPIA REgional HQ:

1 day ago The Republic of Gnome Kidnappers

I just received an important telegram from Farkopia; The UN Delegate for United States has ceased to exist for unknown reasons. He was a good friend to farkers. There are no defenses for the region at this time. The delegate- in-waiting has 9 votes. We must seize the opportunity to take over a region of this size and create and official alliance. They have over 51 nations. If any UN members are available to come and assist in the seizing of power please relocate your troops and endorse Farkopia. This is the greatest opportunity we will have. Besides the regional women there love throat yogurt. :O Please come to help in our Farktopia cause.

Yes, and Scilly, your case is even worse...you came in with the invaders, and had been pinned in the past as an invader. Not to mention the fact that it doesn't matter whether you've been UN while in the region or not. Chances are you had a UN nation in there anyway, but even if you don't, being in the UN doesn't make or deny that someone is an invader.

Why was I ejected? I am from a different organization than Architeuthis.

I believe this is solely because of my ties to the Atlantic Alliance and nothing else. The Atlantic Alliance wasn't even involved in any of the invasions!!

Pope, you are the invader. Stop with the self righteous crapola and crawl back into the hole you came out of.

*Sigh*

We were invited there by natives. I'm not arguing semantics with you. However, this is the last time I'm going to warn you about attacking me personally. Granted what you just said pales in comparison to what was being said before, but it's still borderline flame bait. Knock it off, and leave personal attacks out of this. We're just trying to discover the truth and keep it legal.

For the record, I'm not even in there. I'm safe at home in my own region.

You defenders are griefing the region. We didn't ask for you to come in. You took the word of a couple of cheaters that there was an invasion taking place. Get out.

First of all, you were endorsing the invaders, so you aren't exactly the most reliable of sources, and secondly there was an invasion taking place;

FROM THE FARKTOPIA REgional HQ:

1 day ago The Republic of Gnome Kidnappers

I just received an important telegram from Farkopia; The UN Delegate for United States has ceased to exist for unknown reasons. He was a good friend to farkers. There are no defenses for the region at this time. The delegate- in-waiting has 9 votes. We must seize the opportunity to take over a region of this size and create and official alliance. They have over 51 nations. If any UN members are available to come and assist in the seizing of power please relocate your troops and endorse Farkopia. This is the greatest opportunity we will have. Besides the regional women there love throat yogurt. :O Please come to help in our Farktopia cause.

THIS is your proof that an invasion is going on? This happened months after our nation arrived in the US. Try again. We arranged with the native delegate to enter and had nothing to do with any turnover of power to Architeuthis. How are we an invader? Other than that, you're going on the word of one disgruntled fellow native and one nation that isn't even in the region. Nothing we have posted is hearsay. we haven't overcredited the FA with their manipulation of you "defenders" and your delegate - you have been and are ejecting anyone they tell you to and simply shifting any native who protests to "invader" status. You're turning back the clock several months in order to put a cheater back in power, and you're doing it by the mass-booting of anyone he says.

You Know as an outside observer who happens to watch a lot of stuff, namely invasions, I find this terribly amusing,

As I have said many times before, Defenders are the true invaders,

I remember a while back you deleted a nation for putting up a password and posting that if you wanted the password to telegram him,

well the dude in cahrge has dont just that, why isnt he deleted yet?

as I recall Defenders have to follow the same rules as Invaders.
regardless of circumstances.


United States

World Factbook Entry: If you don't wanna hear us, well, change the station; Boo! I sneak in your mind your mind; Sink in your mind, creep from behind; So fast that you won't have time; To deny a brother that's from the streets; Tryin to teach, hopin to reach; Yo, 187's not one that's known to preach; But I wish for each to have FREEDOM OF SPEECH. I have temporarily placed a password on this region. It will be lifted ASAP. Telegram me if you require the password.

UN Delegate: FlagThe Dazed and Confused Nation of Hrmmm.


I highlighted the pertinant information however the whole message seems pretty condecending to me.

loop, Hrmmm has sent the password to all confirmed natives, and a couple questionable ones.

Oh, and the rest of the WFE? That was Architeuthis's WFE. :wink:

He gave the passwords out to confirmed natives before he wrote that, and gave it out to the others afterwards (he and the natives were trying to figure out who the real natives were).

According to game rules, all non-natives are invaders, but according to game politics we were asked to come in and defend the region by the natives, so we are defender in that sense.

Also, please keep in mind these are declared invaders posting in complaint about the defenders. The real natives have thanked all 7 organizations involved, as they asked us in there in the first place.

THIS is your proof that an invasion is going on? This happened months after our nation arrived in the US. Try again. We arranged with the native delegate to enter and had nothing to do with any turnover of power to Architeuthis. How are we an invader? Other than that, you're going on the word of one disgruntled fellow native and one nation that isn't even in the region. Nothing we have posted is hearsay. we haven't overcredited the FA with their manipulation of you "defenders" and your delegate - you have been and are ejecting anyone they tell you to and simply shifting any native who protests to "invader" status. You're turning back the clock several months in order to put a cheater back in power, and you're doing it by the mass-booting of anyone he says.

Uh, I wasn't talking to you. :roll:

I was showing -Iowa- that Farktopia was moving in after Arch's deletion. That in itself is an invasion, and I never accused you personally of anything.

Well as I understand it everyone who was in the region when He came to power is counted as a native, he has to send it to Everyone, and he is in violation of the rules by not giving it to them all, telling folks to TM him for the password is against the game rules. it is as simple as that.

Loop- if you check the thread on the mod board, Cog specifically states that invaders from previous invasions are not considered natives.

Well as I understand it everyone who was in the region when He came to power is counted as a native, he has to send it to Everyone, and he is in violation of the rules by not giving it to them all, telling folks to TM him for the password is against the game rules. it is as simple as that.

If you look at this thread in Moderation,

http://www.nationstates.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=123507

Cog did say that invaders, no matter how long ago they entered the region, are not considered natives.

Also, I want to let you know that there have been a lot of people in on this trying to make sure it stays legal and quite honestly fair to the natives. They've been deeply distressed since being invaded 3 times in such a short period of time, and really did call on us to help them. We're just as confused as everyone else, but genuinely trying to work it out...with the natives working along with us.

You defenders are griefing the region. We didn't ask for you to come in. You took the word of a couple of cheaters that there was an invasion taking place. Get out.

First of all, you were endorsing the invaders, so you aren't exactly the most reliable of sources, and secondly there was an invasion taking place;

FROM THE FARKTOPIA REgional HQ:

1 day ago The Republic of Gnome Kidnappers

I just received an important telegram from Farkopia; The UN Delegate for United States has ceased to exist for unknown reasons. He was a good friend to farkers. There are no defenses for the region at this time. The delegate- in-waiting has 9 votes. We must seize the opportunity to take over a region of this size and create and official alliance. They have over 51 nations. If any UN members are available to come and assist in the seizing of power please relocate your troops and endorse Farkopia. This is the greatest opportunity we will have. Besides the regional women there love throat yogurt. :O Please come to help in our Farktopia cause.

Greetings, I am Founder of Farkistan, I was told someone was Slandering us here, First off, there has ben no Arcktuethis in either of our regions Ever.
Second of all, Underpants Gnome is not one of us, nor are any of his acquaintances, So leave us out of this and Leave us alone.

That's Farktopia, not Farkistan. I apologize if someone got the wrong idea from my post, but I believe it says teh correct region name even there :?

They are still invaders, the password should be given out to all nations who are there, by now all the invaders should have been removed.
Also you are not one to choose who is native and who isnt, what about the Non UN nations, they coudnt endorse anyone, how many are you forbidding free movement by not giving them the password.

That's Farktopia, not Farkistan. I apologize if someone got the wrong idea from my post, but I believe it says teh correct region name even there :?

Topia is our sister region.
We may not get along but siblings are like that, you slandered one of us you slander both of us.


*corrected Grammer*

It's not slander if it's true - that message was posted on their regional boards, and there were farkers in United States. It's silly to say leave y'all alone when you messed with this business of your own violition.

They are still invaders, the password should be given out to all nations who are there, by now all the invaders should have been removed.
Also you are not one to choose who is native and who isnt, what about the Non UN nations, they coudnt endorse anyone, how many are you forbidding free movement by not giving them the password.

There's no choosing of natives going on, there was only investigating and input from confirmed natives.

Also, I never read anywhere that non-UN nations weren't still considered invaders. In fact, back in the day I had plenty of non-UN nations that were not natives ejected by invaders and didn't complain.

The known invaders are definitely not natives, but I don't think Hrmmm had time to eject them all anyway.

Seriously, just trying to work through this to make it fair and legal.

Then Follow the Rules.

We have been, and I've personally been on here all day trying to make sure it stays that way. :( I'm not even in there with my UN nation, just trying to help Hrmmm keep it legal.

^And we'd like to thank you for it Pope Hope. You've really helped do the natives of the United States a service, and I'd like to extend my gratitude for that.

Wow, thank you DC. That helps quite a bit. The military isn't actually my department, so I've been really confused and detailed about keeping everything legit. I feel like people have been a bit aggressive in return.

It was well worth it to hear your thanks, though. :)

Then Follow the Rules.

Amen

We have been, and I've personally been on here all day trying to make sure it stays that way. :( I'm not even in there with my UN nation, just trying to help Hrmmm keep it legal.

Telling folks that they have to Telegram you for the Password is not following the Rules.
it is Griefing.
erego it is illegal.

also Invaders must notify ALL natives of the password upon its being implimented failure to comply is: accotding to the mods, grounds for Deletion.

Right...it says that in the factbook, but he sent the passwords to the natives as well. Defender troops are still coming in, I assume.

question:
did hrmmm update the WFE, or is this still what Arch..whatever put up there?

So there are natives without the password,
it is not being given freely to ALL natives,

and Invaders are freely coming in?

sounds like a griefing to me.

The last three sentences are Hrmmm's... the rest was Arch's.

So there are natives without the password,
it is not being given freely to ALL natives,

and Invaders are freely coming in?

sounds like a griefing to me.

It's plainly obvious that some "natives" were in fact invaders, which in turn means they are not treated as natives, and are not guaranteed the password.

THIS is your proof that an invasion is going on? This happened months after our nation arrived in the US. Try again. We arranged with the native delegate to enter and had nothing to do with any turnover of power to Architeuthis. How are we an invader? Other than that, you're going on the word of one disgruntled fellow native and one nation that isn't even in the region. Nothing we have posted is hearsay. we haven't overcredited the FA with their manipulation of you "defenders" and your delegate - you have been and are ejecting anyone they tell you to and simply shifting any native who protests to "invader" status. You're turning back the clock several months in order to put a cheater back in power, and you're doing it by the mass-booting of anyone he says.

Uh, I wasn't talking to you. :roll:

I was showing -Iowa- that Farktopia was moving in after Arch's deletion. That in itself is an invasion, and I never accused you personally of anything.

And who have you been booting? Hmm? Just those few nations? We think not, we've already established that. You cite an invasion from the last two days as justification, but your "defender" delegate is throwing out native nations who were in the region months before, and you don't think that there's anything wrong with that?

Wow, thank you DC. That helps quite a bit. The military isn't actually my department, so I've been really confused and detailed about keeping everything legit. I feel like people have been a bit aggressive in return.

It was well worth it to hear your thanks, though. :)

Gee, you don't think it odd that the only people thanking you are those whose orders you're carrying out? What a surprise...of course we're aggressive! DC is using you to grief our region, so do not expect sunshine and light in return from anyone but him.

The vast majority of the nations ejected were clearly invaders. The whole purpose for this thread is to discuss the gray area ones, and hammer out an agreement as to who is/was who. If natives were booted, then they will be allowed back, as that is what the rules state.

I find it funny you complain now about the ejections, yet when Arch was ejecting anyone he felt like, there was no complaint, not even the slightest peep that perhaps some of those nations were in deed legitimate immigrants to the region.

The vast majority of the nations ejected were clearly invaders. The whole purpose for this thread is to discuss the gray area ones, and hammer out an agreement as to who is/was who. If natives were booted, then they will be allowed back, as that is what the rules state.

I find it funny you complain now about the ejections, yet when Arch was ejecting anyone he felt like, there was no complaint, not even the slightest peep that perhaps some of those nations were in deed legitimate immigrants to the region.

That's because they were not. They were the waves of invaders waiting for the password to be let down, dogs of Trekkers and the FA. Architeuthis had the right to boot those invaders - even if he was an invader delegate as has come out, he can still boot counter-invaders as much as he likes. Those were not legitimate immigrants with numbers like that. That was a semi-organized strike, and ineffective as it was, still was obviously an attempt at invasion.

Anbar will not be blacklisted and banned from our own region, then told to just be quiet and deal with it. As a native, we demand the password and to be unbanned.

Gee, you don't think it odd that the only people thanking you are those whose orders you're carrying out? What a surprise...of course we're aggressive! DC is using you to grief our region, so do not expect sunshine and light in return from anyone but him.

The seven defender groups in US were not carrying out anyone's orders, otherwise we would have endorsed the FA's chosed native delegate. Instead we endorsed the defender delegate, to clear out the invaders and let the natives decide. I didn't talk to DC until we were already in the region, and I asked him for a list of natives.

You came in as an invader, you don't just turn into a native when your team isn't winning any more.

And thank you for toning it down a bit.

Also, Argyres has an excellent point:

I find it funny you complain now about the ejections, yet when Arch was ejecting anyone he felt like, there was no complaint, not even the slightest peep that perhaps some of those nations were in deed legitimate immigrants to the region.

So there are natives without the password,
it is not being given freely to ALL natives,

and Invaders are freely coming in?

sounds like a griefing to me.

It's plainly obvious that some "natives" were in fact invaders, which in turn means they are not treated as natives, and are not guaranteed the password.

No it is just I ocassionlaly see a thread and I latch onto it, in this one I see some stuff going on, unfair stuff, stuff being orchestrated by just a few nations, For example I recall Trekkers, AKA Of The People, he was according to intel I have gathered, deleted for Multiing, well since Ben Franklin a Nativly elected Delegate was elected Trekkers has been whining and crying, well due to something beyond my knowledge, Im not sure how it occured exactlky, an invader took control, Trekkers started yelling then, well teh invader got deleted for reasons unknown, now Ben should have took the throne, as his was teh second Highest endorsement count but no, an invader group moves in enmasse with more people than he can possible counter even with all the natives in the region endorsing him, Heck if the people who were Endorsing Architeuthis endorsed Ben, He couldnt have kept the seat, erego, it is an invasion. cut and Dry, no rhetoric needed to back up any claims of Liberation, no dog wagging, just truth, if I were not telling it like it is, there would be no need for all the propaganda in favor of the invaders.
If the invaders would just leave I could forget the entire situation, however they wont for a while aparently as it seems the old Tactics that the AA has been accused of are being used effectivly here.
You know I was Telegrammed with a flag request, Ithink I will make it, so If your name is on the list, dont be offeded, its just politics.

also PH, as you know Ihave been watching the region and well Arch as you call him, only ejected invaders from your group, the FA and other invader groups, he also unbanned most of them your guy isnt unbanning anyone However I find it funny that he booted a portion of his endorsees, and unbanned them, , , Multies Perhaps??

That's because they were not. They were the waves of invaders waiting for the password to be let down, dogs of Trekkers and the FA. Architeuthis had the right to boot those invaders - even if he was an invader delegate as has come out, he can still boot counter-invaders as much as he likes. Those were not legitimate immigrants with numbers like that. That was a semi-organized strike, and ineffective as it was, still was obviously an attempt at invasion.


You have no PROOF that they were all invaders, and therein lies the problem. You (and apparently Arch as well) assumed that all of these countries were involved, which I highly doubt is true. In fact, Arch was ejecting nations for days, obviously to stay in power, which is not in fact legal, because a delegate is limited in that area, unlike a founder.

All this assumes that Ben is not made delegate of the region, which cannot be ascertained as of now. Thus, I would advocate fixing this list and seeing what happens.

As to this:

You know I was Telegrammed with a flag request, Ithink I will make it, so If your name is on the list, dont be offeded, its just politics.

What exactly do you mean?

That's because they were not. They were the waves of invaders waiting for the password to be let down, dogs of Trekkers and the FA. Architeuthis had the right to boot those invaders - even if he was an invader delegate as has come out, he can still boot counter-invaders as much as he likes. Those were not legitimate immigrants with numbers like that. That was a semi-organized strike, and ineffective as it was, still was obviously an attempt at invasion.


You have no PROOF that they were all invaders, and therein lies the problem. You (and apparently Arch as well) assumed that all of these countries were involved, which I highly doubt is true. In fact, Arch was ejecting nations for days, obviously to stay in power, which is not in fact legal, because a delegate is limited in that area, unlike a founder.

Don't talk to us about "proof" with what you guys have been going off of in your griefing. Your sources are highly questionable, and you pick and choose what natives to listen to. Hell, you pick and choose what non-regional inhabitants you want to listen to. You have no grounds to talk to us about having "proof."

For one thing, Architeuthis didn't have our support until it was very clear that our region was to be overtaken if he didn't have it. We've been around for some time, so don't talk to us as if we don't know what invading forces look like. Multiple nations sweep in, happenings boards are spammed, and endorsements are made to one of those nations (one would assume their delegate, and all of these happened). These nations were then booted, all within the span of a day.

These were not immigrants - that suggestion is ludicrous. Under such an assault, regardless of who Architeuthis was ultimately working for, we were glad that someone was holding the region down. Democratic Colonies et al. had forced the lowering of the password (seems pretty treasonous, in retrospect), so the diligent work was appreciated. Such work is also entirely legal - an invader delegate can kick out rival invaders. There's nothing illegal about that.

One of the nations that was ejected was mine, and I can tell you I was not there on behalf of OTP or Trekkers or whoever, I had previously asked Ben for the password, and he had never responded (I read on the US board that he had an overflow of TGs, so I assumed he'd get back to me).

I know full well that you have experience, and am not intending to disrespect you in that area. Many of those nations probably were invaders, but ejecting all of them was over the line. Arch was not just stopping invaders (which is true, many, of not most were indeed invaders); he was also ejecting any immigrant he so chose. That's the problem I had with it, and that's why I was in United States that night. Otherwise, frankly, I would rather not deal with invasions and the like.

One of the nations that was ejected was mine, and I can tell you I was not there on behalf of OTP or Trekkers or whoever, I had previously asked Ben for the password, and he had never responded (I read on the US board that he had an overflow of TGs, so I assumed he'd get back to me).

I know full well that you have experience, and am not intending to disrespect you in that area. Many of those nations probably were invaders, but ejecting all of them was over the line. Arch was not just stopping invaders (which is true, many, of not most were indeed invaders); he was also ejecting any immigrant he so chose. That's the problem I had with it, and that's why I was in United States that night. Otherwise, frankly, I would rather not deal with invasions and the like.

So why were you there, again? Besides this, do you expect us to believe that you couldn't tell an invasion was going on when you just happened to choose to wander in? Did you contact Architeuthis first, or did you just decide that you'd just happen to go in when it's clear that an invasion situation is being dealt with?

And how does your experience being thrown out of the region in a matter of hours in any way relate to the booting of natives months established? Because Franklin managed to get the password to us, we're somehow less important? Are we supposed to sympathize here, or give you some kind of credibility for this?

If you'd "rather not deal with invasions and the like," then you'd better not get involved in one, as you clearly are, because they are not pretty. Especially when you're on the side of the griefers, there will be just a bit of well-justified anger with you by the griefed.

In light of all the Hogwashing going on I have decided to go ahead and make that falg I was asked to make,

http://invisionfree.com/forums/The_East_Pacific/index.php?act=Attach&type=post&id=2577

if your name is on it dont get mad at me, Im jsut using the list given me by the requester, who will possibly not use it as it will most likely get him booted.

also Argyes, which is better, booting a few immigrents who appear suspicious, or locking the region down so no one can come in, jsut what happened under OTP and currently under the invaders. Mulities, griefers, and as I just found out, a Mod impersonator.

What? Please don't start making accusations of the defenders without explaining why you're calling them everything you are...UN mulites and Mod Impersonators? That's simply not fair.

Im not going to name names as that would be Unethical*, but one of the people in the region was Deleted for Multying, they are all griefing, and One in particular recently ( a few weeks ago in teh US) claimed to be a Mod he was even Punished by ahving his pretitle set to "the Not a NS moderator of" and Warned.

PH, Know your Allies as you run with them, lest you suffer their punishment by Proxy.
I know a bit about them, I research before taking a side.

*although Ethics aparently matter not in this situation, I shall retain the use of them.

As do I. Don't generalize the other defender alliances with things that the FA have done. You're not talking about the rest of us. I research everything around here, you'd be surprised I'm sure to know some of what I find.

Anyway, I still think it's ridiculous to listen to invaders pretending to be delegates. No, I didn't know Hrmmm was going to put up a password for the night, but he did give it out to the natives therefore there has been no griefing. Cog already said past invaders are not natives.

The ADN has never had one of those "multi scandals." As I look at that "flag" (which I must say was in very bad taste for you to make, he may have asked but you didn't have to support it), most of the members there are not ADN but left over from the other defender alliances, none of which have bad reputations for cheating either.

*although Ethics aparently matter not in this situation, I shall retain the use of them.

Now that is just not necessary. My only involvement in this situation was to make sure our ethics and legality remained true. I realize you have your own personal feelings about defenders, but have you been watching United States yourself for these last months? You believe the invaders masquerading as natives simply because you're against defenders?

As do I. Don't generalize the other defender alliances with things that the FA have done. You're not talking about the rest of us. I research everything around here, you'd be surprised I'm sure to know some of what I find.

Anyway, I still think it's ridiculous to listen to invaders pretending to be delegates. No, I didn't know Hrmmm was going to put up a password for the night, but he did give it out to the natives therefore there has been no griefing. Cog already said past invaders are not natives.

The ADN has never had one of those "multi scandals." As I look at that "flag" (which I must say was in very bad taste for you to make, he may have asked but you didn't have to support it), most of the members there are not ADN but left over from the other defender alliances, none of which have bad reputations for cheating either.

Wellllll, I just looked at the US and this was there,

12 minutes ago The Most Glorious Modified Puppet Nation of Glaaki Hrmmm: Password must be given to all natives.


So aparently it hasnt been give to all the natives.

as for the "generalisation" if you are supporting them then you must be held accouuntable, the same went for any natives supporting the previous Delegate, what is good for the Goose is Good for the Gander you know.

as for flags I have only ever refused like three,
One someone wanted a Masonic flag, I refused as I had no way to know they were Masons.
Two, someone wanted a Swastica, Illegal, therefore no dice
and three, an animated flag, I dont do those except as a lark and the one he wanted was too complex to fit.
attaking my work is not nice, you may think it in poor taste but to those who believe that the listed are griefers it is acceptable,
heck in all oppressive regimes political posters for the rebels are always viewed in the same way,

*although Ethics aparently matter not in this situation, I shall retain the use of them.

Now that is just not necessary. My only involvement in this situation was to make sure our ethics and legality remained true. I realize you have your own personal feelings about defenders, but have you been watching United States yourself for these last months? You believe the invaders masquerading as natives simply because you're against defenders?

Look at some of the posts on this subject, namely that cavemans posts, Ididnt say you specifically. as for the watching, Yes, I have.
I like to keep track of stuff, I think is interesting.

Just because someone claims to be a native, decries injustice and asks for the passie doesn't mean they're a native.

Furthermore, I think that regardless of the "taste value" of the poster, it serves little or no purpose in making an argument on this forum. Just because you can put together a (partial) list of our participants in the display of defender unity, and accuse them of being griefers, doesn't really present any evidence.

PH you may want to call off your caveman, as he is making you look bad.

What's your complaint about the last post?

Cave man, you are not adding anythign to the debate, you are jsut trying to get me to flame you, so please, let those of us who actually are concerned about the situation talk, you are not doing any thing constructive, and I am primarily talking about the post in moderation.

But FYI since you asked, it isnt the ADN's job to decide who is a native,
and that flag was made at the request of a native, I put it here so He can easily find it aas I assume he is watching these subjects, and well it makes a political statement.

Cave man, you are not adding anythign to the debate, you are jsut trying to get me to flame you
The first post or two tonite I was. That last one made some valid points.

so please, let those of us who actually are concerned about the situation talk, you are not doing any thing constructive
I am concerned about the situation. Why else would I have a puppet (booted as a non-native, because he wasn't a native) in US? And I thought the points I made added to the debate.

and I am primarily talking about the post in moderation.
That explains why we were confused :)

But FYI since you asked, it isnt the ADN's job to decide who is a native,
No it's not, but it's not our job to give the passie to anyone who asks and claims to be a native, either.

and that flag was made at the request of a native, I put it here so He can easily find it aas I assume he is watching these subjects, and well it makes a political statement.
I see, makes sense. But I'd still like to see evidence to back the statements up.

Also not that my lack of responses after this are due not to the fact that I have no response, but only that I have been up for nearly 24hrs and need sleep :wink:

Just because someone claims to be a native, decries injustice and asks for the passie doesn't mean they're a native.

Oh, but it's fine when some "defender" swoops in out of the blue and starts declaring who is and is not a native. That makes sense, especially considering that none of you have raised a charge against our nation that has even remotely had any validity. You people are working off of little to no information whatsoever, and you've made that abundantly clear this evening. You make vague claims, then ignore resulting refutation and declare any objectors "probable invaders." Get out of our region and leave us to our own affairs.

Okay, I'm ready to weigh in here, I was having some trouble logging on last night until it was too late to compose an adequate response.

First of all, let me state for the record that I freely admit that I endorsed Architeuthis when I came back into the game after an absense of a couple of weeks. From what I could tell at the time, he was governing the region according to the principles that make the real United States the great country that it is like freedom of speech. Endorsing him seemed to be insurance against a Freedom Alliance take over of the region, which I considered the greatest threat to the region while I was delegate.

A bit of history: I became delegate after a number of nations including the previous delegate were deleted by the moderators, presumably for cheating. The password was dropped for a while, and a number of new nations, like Trekkers, joined the region. A number of these nations were French. Others were puppets of the nations who had been deleted. The password was reinstated.

At this point some nations started posting things that appeared to be intended as humor and other nations began demanding their ejection. Since the offending nations were not in the UN I didn't consider them a threat and I took the position that they had the right, under the constitution, to express themselves. The FA then tried to order me to eject those nations. I told them that the region was autonomous and as delegate I would do what I thought best. According to a large number of telegrams I received, the FA began planning an invasion to remove me from the delegateship over the wishes of the nations in the region. I set up a committee to develop an immigration plan that would allow new nations in, but would maintain security.

So, that was the political situation in the United States when I was forced to ignore the game for a while. Since there are at least two contentious factions we need to take a certain amount of care with our decision about who is allowed to stay in the region and who is not.

Now that that's been said, I think we need to be careful with the accusations that are being thrown back and forth by both sides in this discussion. I believe that Democratic Colonies is well intentioned, but I don't think that categorizing people is productive. I also don't know who Garrison II is, where he is getting his information or why he's throwing around unsubstantiated accusations.

I understand that emotions are running hot, but the rhetoric on both sides here has been way too McCarthyesque for my taste. I think, as I've said on the regional board, that we should all try to calm down and work this through reasonably. At the moment, I'm willing to take the current group of invaders at their word that they are well-intentioned. If that's true they will leave shortly and not become an occupying force.

More to come...

The "political situation" forced you to "ignore the game for a while"? What does that mean Ben? Why did you leave, did you think that leaving the region in that state would help anything?

Ben, it seemed to me more like you abandoned the region and condemned us all to French rule, maybe intentionally, maybe not. When you left, the commission on immigration that you proposed wasen't close to being set up, none of the natives had the password, and the French did. Can you guess what the result of that was? French nations were arriving, while we couldn't get any reinforcements into the region. When you did log in after about 8 to 12 days of inactivity, you changed the password so now no one had it, posted something about how everything went to hell while you were gone, and claimed you'd be back tommorow. You weren't back for another 8-15 days, when you arrived again to see that Arch had taken the delegateship, and you then proceeded to endorse him.

You were obviously wrong about the French not posing a threat, seeing as they ended up with the delegateship. I'm sorry if that seemed to be dripping with bitterness, but that's the way I saw it, unless you can offer a better reason for why you left us, and why the French had the password but not us.

As for the list - it's better then guessing who's a native/maybe a native/maybe a French deep plant on the regional message board and argueing about it there. It's easier for everyone if we put it into a centralized list for discussion and correction.

This is all humor and rping? Or is it just pure unadulterated spam?




2 hours ago The Also We Are French of Architeuthis Americans cannot run their own nation because they are incapable of harnessing the atomic power of horses. Small land crabs can ride horses because they are not American and can also win wars. Land crabs have built-in armor and weaponry whereas Americans are small, pink-bellied creatures that do not possess tools like the lever and the wheel like small land crabs who are also bilingual. Because of this Mr. Bush takes orders from small land crabs who taste good steamed and dipped in butter made from hen milk. Hens give the best milk because their eggs are perfect spheres and thus are the most nutritious proof of the existence of Noah's Ark ever created by a Frenchman. The horses are proud of small land crabs because of their ability to take American wives and become nationalized so that they can dominate American elections. Ralph Nader is a small land crab and also as French as a horse is long. Hens can build small land crabs out of the spare parts a wasteful American will discard when attempting to create a Thanksgiving dinner. Small land crabs made from cranberry sauce have an extra claw and a savory aroma. This is because American soldiers cannot win wars or eat a bag of flour without a sip of French wine. French Hippos like to eat very large barrels of flour and confuse Americans by exhaling enormous white smokescreens. The French word for such behavior is "luftwaffe".

Aaahh Freak out!
Le Freak, C'est Chic
Freak out!
Aaahh Freak out!
Le Freak, C'est Chic
Freak out!
Aaahh Freak out!
Le Freak, C'est Chic
Freak out!
Aaahh Freak out!
Le Freak, C'est Chic
Freak out!

Proof that the best American songs are actually French in nature. This is because the French invented most musical instruments including the saxophone, piano, and guitar. In addition the French were the first to tame a hippo and teach it to sing pop music. This is called Christina Aguilera.

Les pauvres americains. On dirait que ça leur ennuie de ne plus être au pouvoir. Eh, bien....votre Ben Franklin, où est-il?
(laughter and hilarity ensue)

I can tell ya right now, Im NOT French, but Architeuthis is a very powerful leader, his words ring truthfull through the eons and will continure to bring enlighnment to all.

Heil Architeuthis!

"Horses are big. American horses are not big, as American men cannot please thier women. Also, Iraq enjoys sheep pie because they took over Kentucky because the Americans cannot win wars because they cannot please thier women because they do not have large horses also we have large horses and enjoy smoking very large French cigars because we like wine."

11 hours ago The National Socialist Republic of Otto Skorzeny ^
United States

World Factbook Entry: The Bill of Rights is the heart of what makes our country great. AMENDMENT I: Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances. Telegram Ben if you wish to join our region.

Trekkers, you are so wrong, the fact book above says we have the right to Freedom of Speach, Freedom of the Press, ect, no where in it does it say we only have these freedoms asociated with religion, you sir need to leave this region. You are preaching hate and your views are more akin to the constant rewritten stuff preached by Stalin.

11 hours ago The Crazy Mad Invaders of The NS Invaders Actually, I havae been doing some research on you Trekkers, and if youtruly are OTP, then you are not going to like this post.

OTP is a member of a known Griefer association. Perhaps if Ben Shows back up soon he should boot you and your Cronies out as a Preemptive strike against Griefings.
Trekkers
Andistine
Garrison II

(I'm not too sure if I spelled the second one properly, but it is the person claiming to be a Moderator the other day.)

2 hours ago The Freedom Alliance State of Andistine I DID NOT CLAIM TO BE A MOD YOU IDIOT. I SAID I WAS THE MOD OF THE FA FORUM!

3 hours ago The Also We Are French of Architeuthis You can never fool the French because their brains are constructed by the finest scientists on the planet who are all French because of their horses. When you make claims that are untrue the horses can sense it with their special animal instincts which are imported from France which has the most powerful horse military on the planet. The horses cannot speak because that would be ridiculous but all Frenchmen have powerful brains invented by horses and thus ESP and so they can read the minds of the horses who can tell when Americans are lying or eating foul processed cheese. Horses are large and have big heads and long brains which can smell trouble from six miles away and also eat 900 pounds of hay in under 16 minutes and because of this sometimes they have to poop when in the middle of reading minds but because they are advanced beyond rules and embarrassments they can poop whenever they feel like it which is a freedom Americans do not have in the so-called land of the free. Horses are the best poopers in the world. They are out standing in their field.

I think it's funny as hell, but that's just me. You do see that the only person on the board that's flaming is the FA member, right?

Just as an FYI, I have been following this thread, andI placed the password on US to keep more defenders/invaders from entering the region and making a bigger mess out of things.

Then you'd better send that password over to us and unban us, lest you find yourself deleted. You cannot keep a native out of a region, and no one has, in any way, made the case that we were an invader. We'll expect that password within the next few hours, or we file a moderator report.

^I don't think you're a native Anbar.


Anyways, I'm posting version 1.2 of the list. Please assist in refining, correcting and editing the list. Post anything you think is wrong with the list.

Changes in Version 1.2:
- Change in formating, the number of catagories has been reduced.
- The Mustang has been moved to "Known Natives". The Mustang was previously placed in "Total Unknowns" and was later ejected. I apologize deeply for the mistake.
- New information regarding Musez's contested status as "Known Native".
- The Orion Nebula was previously accused of being an invader by Of the Flags (which I believe is a Of the People nation), but that was overlooked until now. I apologize for missing that.
- The Mustang and Ulysses S Grant were accused of being invaders earlier by Garrison II, but that was overlooked until now. I apologize for missing that.


- List 1.2 -
I've prepared a list of:

- known natives
- probable natives
- known natives, probable natives that supported the invaders / possible deep plants
- non-natives that supported the invaders / probable and possible invaders
- total unknowns

Feedback and refinement would be appreciated, ie confirmation of probable/possible natives as natives.

Truth is, I was only in the United States for less than a month before Of the People was deleted, which is why I'm not sure about some nations.
I have included UN membership markers where appropiate.
The * indicates a move between catagories between last version and the current one.
The <> indicates a contested placement.

- Known Natives -
Air Strip Two
Mattcorp (UN)
Kevin Wood (UN)
Trekkers (UN)
Democratic Colonies (UN)
Moderator Malice (UN)
Andistine (UN)
CosmicStarLight (UN)
Musez <>
The Mustang* <>

- Probable Natives -
Benwah (UN)
Shining America United
Andrew Jackson
The Thomas Jefferson (UN)
Kucinich*
Blight*
Ulysses S Grant* <>
The Orion Nebula* <>

- Known and Probable Natives that Supported the Invaders / Possible Deep Plants -
Major Tom (UN)
-Iowa- (UN)
Benjamin Franklin (UN)
Teddy Roosevelt (UN)

- Non-natives that supported the invaders / probable and possible invaders -
Afghani Poppy Farmers
Church and State
Art Frahm

- Total Unknowns -
Stalingradski
Existential Blues
Sovyetskie uspekhi
Walter Koenig
Mr Rourke
Dunkelheit (UN)



- Contested Placings -
- Musez as a "Known Native" is being contested by Pope Hope. Musez as a "Known Native" is supported by Democratic Colonies, Andistine. Recently, Musez has stated that he was ejected by Arch and his recorded entry into the United States was only his re-entry from being ejected, and while ejected he went to seek reinforcements for the United States. His evidence is as follows:

Regional Happenings (Within hours of Arch deletion)

"Seconds ago: The Queendom of Trey Edwards arrived from The East Pacific.
4 minutes ago: The Republic of Your Home Town arrived from The West Pacific.
11 minutes ago: The Armed Republic of HeavilyArmedRepublics arrived from Farktopia.
18 minutes ago: The Constitutional Monarchy of King of Ahmn arrived from The East Pacific.
46 minutes ago: The Kingdom of Spaceisland and of Musez arrived from Utopia.
58 minutes ago: The Principality of Prussian Free States arrived from Farktopia.
67 minutes ago: The Kingdom of Spaceisland and of Musez departed this region for New north pacific
76 minutes ago: The Holy Republic of Nadejda arrived from LUE.
5 hours ago: The Dominion of Upstate New York arrived from The West Pacific.
5 hours ago: The Holy Empire of Adolf Bush arrived from The Rejected Realms."


- The Mustang as a "Known Native" was contested by Garrison II. The Mustang as a "Known Native" is supported by Musez and Hrmmm. Since it has been some time since the objection, I'm not certain if Garrision II still objects.


- Ulysses S Grant as a "Probable Native" was contested by Garrison II. Since it has been some time since the objection, I'm not certain if Garrision II still objects.


- he Orion Nebula as a "Probable Native" was contested by Of the Flags, which I believe is an Of the People nation. Since it has been some time since the objection, I'm not certain if Of the Flags/Of the People still objects.



As always, please assist in editing, refining and correcting the list. All help is appriciated. I also think it would be wise to give those in "Known and Probable Natives that Supported the Invaders / Possible Deep Plants" the benefit of a doubt and not jump to any conclusions about them being deep plants. They might be, that's a possibility, but they might just be natives that supported Arch for one reason or another.

I would like to say that Musez is not a native. He is identifying himself as the co-president of FA, so how could he possibly be a native.

And Loop, what are you doing here? This is not your debate to argue. Go away and eject some more people from the East Pacific.

I would like to say that Musez is not a native. He is identifying himself as the co-president of FA, so how could he possibly be a native.


Since the United States is the home region of the Freedom Alliance, I think it's entirely possible that Musez is both.

Then you'd better send that password over to us and unban us, lest you find yourself deleted. You cannot keep a native out of a region, and no one has, in any way, made the case that we were an invader. We'll expect that password within the next few hours, or we file a moderator report.

Given your long history as an invader and your invader-like activity in the US, it is quite clear that you are not a native.

Unless anyone objects, I am going to eject:
Afghani Poppy Farmers
Church and State
Art Frahm

And give the password to:
Benwah (UN)
Shining America United
Andrew Jackson
Blight*
Ulysses S Grant* <>
The Orion Nebula< >

Already recieved or should have recieved the password:
Air Strip Two
Mattcorp (UN)
Kevin Wood (UN)
Trekkers (UN)
Democratic Colonies (UN)
Moderator Malice (UN)
Andistine (UN)
CosmicStarLight (UN)
Musez <>
The Mustang* <>
Kucinich
The Thomas Jefferson
-Iowa-
Benjamin Franklin
Teddy Roosevelt
Major Tom

I will resend the password to these nations to make sure they have it.

I would like to say that Musez is not a native. He is identifying himself as the co-president of FA, so how could he possibly be a native.


Since the United States is the home region of the Freedom Alliance, I think it's entirely possible that Musez is both.

But the FA was invading the region!

Then you'd better send that password over to us and unban us, lest you find yourself deleted. You cannot keep a native out of a region, and no one has, in any way, made the case that we were an invader. We'll expect that password within the next few hours, or we file a moderator report.

Given your long history as an invader and your invader-like activity in the US, it is quite clear that you are not a native.

Ah, thank you Kandarin. I've been trying to say that but no one was listening.

U.S Grant and Mustang are not natives, the list I compiled is well over a month old, they came in with the French!

Then you'd better send that password over to us and unban us, lest you find yourself deleted. You cannot keep a native out of a region, and no one has, in any way, made the case that we were an invader. We'll expect that password within the next few hours, or we file a moderator report.

Given your long history as an invader and your invader-like activity in the US, it is quite clear that you are not a native.

Ah, thank you Kandarin. I've been trying to say that but no one was listening.

That makes no difference whatsoever. Are you saying now that if someone has ever been an invader they cannot be a native anywhere? I'd love to see you cite that ruling from somewhere. Go ahead, we're all waiting.

Going on hearsay again, Hope? Why don't you address a few of my earlier refutations, rather than just running and hiding from arguments? Again, no one has been able to say just what invader-activities we've participated in, merely using the circular logic of

"You're not a native!'

Why?

"Because you're an invader!"

How?

"Because you're not a native!" etc.

This is unacceptable and illegal. No one has yet made a irrefutable point as to how this nation is an invader here, and as such you are in violation of the rules of region crashing.

I would like to say that Musez is not a native. He is identifying himself as the co-president of FA, so how could he possibly be a native.


Since the United States is the home region of the Freedom Alliance, I think it's entirely possible that Musez is both.

But the FA was invading the region!

Indeed they were, but that apparently doesn't count, since we're carrying out a political agenda here, not playing by the rules. We've already established that.

I would like to say that Musez is not a native. He is identifying himself as the co-president of FA, so how could he possibly be a native.


Since the United States is the home region of the Freedom Alliance, I think it's entirely possible that Musez is both.

But the FA was invading the region!

Indeed they were, but that apparently doesn't count, since we're carrying out a political agenda here, not playing by the rules. We've already established that.

For what it's worth, I think that the FA was only trying to liberate the region and had good intentions for the region.

Now, does anybody have entry records that show when Ulysses S Grant and The Orion Nebula entered the United States? Those might prove usful in determining if they're natives or not.

Anbar, leave me alone. I'm just trying to help. You came in with the invaders as an invader and endorsed the invaders, after being an invader for eons yourself. That's a fact; you're not a native.

Now, does anybody have entry records that show when Ulysses S Grant and The Orion Nebula entered the United States? Those might prove usful in determining if they're natives or not.

I posted the order of entrance near the beginning of this thread and the one in Moderation, if that helps.

The "political situation" forced you to "ignore the game for a while"? What does that mean Ben?

Please read my post carefully, DC. I know you're smarter than this.

So, that was the political situation in the United States when I was forced to ignore the game for a while.

Note the added emphasis. It was personal matters that kept me away from the game that I don't care to discuss on-line.

Anbar, leave me alone. I'm just trying to help. You came in with the invaders as an invader and endorsed the invaders, after being an invader for eons yourself. That's a fact; you're not a native.

No, we will not leave you alone. You're acting as a mouthpiece, so you get to deal with the resulting comments (whether you have the guts to address them or not). You're helping to put a known cheater back into power, after his deletion months ago. We came in with no one, you still haven't said which invaders we endorsed, and we haven't invaded a region in well over six months (ask One Bad Asp, we sat in Hell the entire time). Give us some substance to your flacid allegations and we might actually give you some credit in these matters. Otherwise, why don't you put us in contact with someone who has a clue, because you clearly do not.

Unless anyone objects, I am going to eject:
Afghani Poppy Farmers
Church and State
Art Frahm

I object to the ejection of Church and State unless someone can explain to me why he/she is under suspicion. I don't know the other two.

And give the password to:
Benwah (UN)
Shining America United
Andrew Jackson
Blight*
Ulysses S Grant* <>
The Orion Nebula< >

I'm pretty sure that The Orion Nebula is a known invader.

I have a thick file on you, Anbar. That's of no consequence. This is the last time I'm going to tell you to quit flamebaiting me--you WILL leave me alone.

I'm not acting as a mouthpiece. I'm helping the defenders keep it legal and the natives to slog through everything. The defenders will not be endorsing the native delegate they select, the natives will...so how are they helping anyone get into power? Please let the natives conduct their discussion here without aggressive verbal interference.

The "political situation" forced you to "ignore the game for a while"? What does that mean Ben?

Please read my post carefully, DC. I know you're smarter than this.

So, that was the political situation in the United States when I was forced to ignore the game for a while.

Note the added emphasis. It was personal matters that kept me away from the game that I don't care to discuss on-line.

Ah. Well, I apologize if I misread then.

However, I think that the rest of my post deserves to be adressed, like why you gave only the French the password, why you logged in that one time to make your "everything's gone to hell" post, and then proceeded to endorse Arch. I know that you've said that you were attempting to keep the region out of FA hands, but would you really rather have Arch and the French in power over the FA?

For what it's worth, I think that the FA was only trying to liberate the region and had good intentions for the region.

I can't go along with that. The FA tried to stage an invasion while I was delegate simply because they did not like some of my decisions. I believe that, whether you're a native or not, (and Trekkers, who was evidently organzing it, hadn't been in the region very long at that point) bringing in a bunch of nations to unseat a legally elected delegate constitutes an invasion.

So you call in the French to endorse you?


Region: United States
Delegate: Benjamin Franklin
Endorsements Received: 9 (-Iowa-, Kansas City Kitty, Teddy Roosevelt, Kevin Wood, The Way Side, The Thomas Jefferson, Dolesville, Architeuthis, Nothingg)

I have a thick file on you, Anbar. That's of no consequence. This is the last time I'm going to tell you to quit flamebaiting me--you WILL leave me alone.

I'm not acting as a mouthpiece. I'm helping the defenders keep it legal and the natives to slog through everything. The defenders will not be endorsing the native delegate they select, the natives will...so how are they helping anyone get into power? Please let the natives conduct their discussion here without aggressive verbal interference.

Ooh, a file! Perhaps that means that there's some information about. How wonderful, now why don't you look into that file and try to get some answers out of it for your weak allegations, none of which you've been able to defend with anything but, "You're an invader!" As for accusations of flamebaiting, none has gone on here. If your skin is too thin to handle what's going on and you're so compelled to flame, then perhaps you ought to quietly back away before you do. We are not going to sit quietly and coddle you while the United States is being griefed and emptied.

Clearly, you're only interested in helping certain natives complete their objectives. As for how you're doing those natives' dirty work for them, if you throw out their political enemies as invaders, I think it's pretty obvious who benefits. Funny, you're here to "help," yet this "help" is being met with a lot of anger and protest. Gee, whyever would that be? :roll:

We have filed a mod report, and we will see the rules enforced.

However, I think that the rest of my post deserves to be adressed, like why you gave only the French the password, why you logged in that one time to make your "everything's gone to hell" post, and then proceeded to endorse Arch. I know that you've said that you were attempting to keep the region out of FA hands, but would you really rather have Arch and the French in power over the FA?

I spoke to Architeuthis while he was delegate of the Caribbean and he seemed fine, not French at all. When I came back the second time he was acting very American and touting the Constitution which I find commendable. I didn't see anything like the posts that were quoted above.

So, yes. That was my judgement at the time and given the same information I would come to the same decision again.

As for my brief reappearance, I checked in long enough to see that there was a lot of strife in the region. It was evident that someone I had given the password to had distributed it and so I changed the password to keep any more nations from getting in. I fully intended to get back the following day, but that turned out to be impossible and if I haven't already I apologize for that. I hope that explains things to your satisfaction, DC.

So you call in the French to endorse you?

No.

Region: United States
Delegate: Benjamin Franklin
Endorsements Received: 9 (-Iowa-, Kansas City Kitty, Teddy Roosevelt, Kevin Wood, The Way Side, The Thomas Jefferson, Dolesville, Architeuthis, Nothingg)

This however, raises an excellent point. Dolesville and The Way Side absolutely should be on the natives list and the password should be sent to them. What happened to those guys anyway?

Anyway, I have a paper to work on. I'll check back in later.

Damn! I forgot about The Way Side!

Okay, I think I remember him being a native, but I'm not totally sure. Ben says that he is. Is there another nation that remembers with certainty that The Way Side was a native? If there is, The Way Side's already been ejected, so we'd have to contact him and let him back in. Has anyone had any contact with him? I don't remember him being around during the creation of the 1.0 list, so maybe Arch ejected him - I'm not sure.

I don't know about Dolesville though. Does anyone else remember Dolesville?

However, I think that the rest of my post deserves to be adressed, like why you gave only the French the password, why you logged in that one time to make your "everything's gone to hell" post, and then proceeded to endorse Arch. I know that you've said that you were attempting to keep the region out of FA hands, but would you really rather have Arch and the French in power over the FA?

I spoke to Architeuthis while he was delegate of the Caribbean and he seemed fine, not French at all. When I came back the second time he was acting very American and touting the Constitution which I find commendable. I didn't see anything like the posts that were quoted above.

So, yes. That was my judgement at the time and given the same information I would come to the same decision again.

As for my brief reappearance, I checked in long enough to see that there was a lot of strife in the region. It was evident that someone I had given the password to had distributed it and so I changed the password to keep any more nations from getting in. I fully intended to get back the following day, but that turned out to be impossible and if I haven't already I apologize for that. I hope that explains things to your satisfaction, DC.

So your are denying that I and other Senators of the New Meritocracy warned you along with Trekkers and the FA about how the French previously invaded and spammed the United States. It also should be known that the older nations from the United States fled there from a French attack on the region America and they some how got delegacy.

This is what happened last time, this was copied from August, this is why I have an intrest in the region.

United States
World Factbook Entry: Bienvenue!! The United States is under new management. We proudly annouce an alliance with the good people of the region of America, who are French and Metis. Also, the French language was used by Jesus. B.A.M. 4 eva.

"21 hours ago The Republic of Rob Roy MacGregor Those who disrespect the great Jacques Chirac are not welcome **AHEM BUSH**"

21 hours ago: The Republic of Rob Roy MacGregor ejected The Holy Empire of Bush Junior from the region.
21 hours ago: The Republic of Rob Roy MacGregor updated the World Factbook entry.

5 hours ago The People's Republic of Sea King Leave the Unites States? Yo ho! That is a fair proposition from you Scurvy Landlubbers! Me ship is in port, all me mates are out getting French to English translation books and ye want me to leave? ARRRRRrrrrr shiver me timbers! Ye should pull up broadside to my skipjack so I can show ye what for French Style! I haven't had as rude a welcome since we pulled into port in England, ARRRRrrrr, they don't care much the French Pirate I'll tell ye.
Where be them Bush Daughters anyway? Me peg boy is worn out and we be looking for a replacement...

9 minutes ago The Free Land of Jacques Chirac Je viens aux Etats-Unis seulement pour quelques jours et je suis déjà évalué premier dans ici "Aujourd'hui Est Uni du Rapport de Nations". les américains sont faibles, les Français sont robuste et les meilleurs combattants dans le monde.

WHICH TRANSLATES INTO


I come to the United States only for a few days and I am already evaluated first in here "Today Is Plain Report/ratio of Nations". America is weak, the French are robust and the best combatants in
the world.


6 minutes ago The Free Land of Jacques Chirac les pirates français sont les meilleurs pirates dans le ARRRRRRR mondial

the French pirates are the best pirates in the world ARRRRRRR

6 hours ago The Republic of Potato Pickers I have no problem with anyone who is french and I greatly admire people that can speak many languages, but why do you wish to occupy the United States? Surely France would be an idea region for you. United States at least was a democracy but it is no longer one. It is obvious that many of the nations in the United States believe that you are being oppressive. I shall try my upmost to return the United States to a democracy, even if that means the freanch nations leaving, although I rather they dont if democracy is made.

Seconds ago The Free Land of Jacques Chirac La République de Pickers de Pomme de terre

Vous nous admirez fort Français parce que nous sommes plus intelligents et plus grands que les américains. nous avons gagné aussi beaucoup beaucoup de guerres. vous devez naviguer sur le bateau de pirates à la France et voyez notre grand pays, nous avons le vin, le fromage et les femmes.

Translate

The Republic of Potato Pickers You admire us strong French because we are more intelligent and larger than American we gained also much many wars you must sail on the boat of pirates in France and see our large country, we have the wine, cheese and the women.

The Republic of Rob Roy MacGregor There is no need to go to France, roi de mer. We will be making the United States into a french colony. Starting immediately, the Napa Valley will be producing French wine because we are flying over 250 French viniculturalists. We are kicking out all the cheddar cheese makers in Wisconsin, and bringing in the finest French cheese manufacturers. We are making the beautiful French language the primary language, and everyone must begin to take French classes. I know, they are still Americans, but we will breed that filthy American english right out of them. With that goes there way of thinking.

12 hours ago The Free Land of Jacques Chirac vous les américains doivent apprendre à parler à Français, anglaiss ne sera pas toléré beaucoup de

you americans should learn to speak French, english will not be tolerated much longer

8 hours ago The Dominion of Anbar Hmm, they call the French the cowards, as they run away to other regions. Pathetic American fools...

5 hours ago The Emirate of Jew Nipper Yet my Al-Qaida network will kick all of you to Allah!

Ah, we remember those days...back when invading was still worthwhile. Is there a point, G2, or is this just another of your Francophobic spells?

I would like to say that Musez is not a native. He is identifying himself as the co-president of FA, so how could he possibly be a native.

And Loop, what are you doing here? This is not your debate to argue. Go away and eject some more people from the East Pacific.

Mods, teh abovve is a blatant flame bait, please Deal with.

:evil: :evil: :evil:
I was a LEGITIMATE Immigrant to the United States and I was Booted out by this Invader, Moderators, I have lodged a Getting Help complaing about this, I was even advised by Democratic Colonies to Telegram Hrmmm and let him know I was a Settler, and He Still Booted me!

this is Griefing in action, Justice must be given to us in the US!

Unless anyone objects, I am going to eject:
Afghani Poppy Farmers
Church and State
Art Frahm

And give the password to:
Benwah (UN)
Shining America United
Andrew Jackson
Blight*
Ulysses S Grant* <>
The Orion Nebula< >

Already recieved or should have recieved the password:
Air Strip Two
Mattcorp (UN)
Kevin Wood (UN)
Trekkers (UN)
Democratic Colonies (UN)
Moderator Malice (UN)
Andistine (UN)
CosmicStarLight (UN)
Musez <>
The Mustang* <>
Kucinich
The Thomas Jefferson
-Iowa-
Benjamin Franklin
Teddy Roosevelt
Major Tom

I will resend the password to these nations to make sure they have it.

I would like to say that Musez is not a native. He is identifying himself as the co-president of FA, so how could he possibly be a native.

And Loop, what are you doing here? This is not your debate to argue. Go away and eject some more people from the East Pacific.

Mods, teh abovve is a blatant flame bait, please Deal with.

Alright, I'm sorry for flaming you. But I really don't see how this involves you.

So you call in the French to endorse you?


Region: United States
Delegate: Benjamin Franklin
Endorsements Received: 9 (-Iowa-, Kansas City Kitty, Teddy Roosevelt, Kevin Wood, The Way Side, The Thomas Jefferson, Dolesville, Architeuthis, Nothingg)

well even if Ben had called in the french,

as Stated by one of our Own Beloved Moderators, back in may of last year.

You can call in anyone you want to endorse you.

that is a paraphrase of the quote but

if you want specifics I will let the mod himself talk to you, and you can see for yourself. I would be more specific but it is part of a personal issue.

I don't know about Dolesville though. Does anyone else remember Dolesville?

Dolesville requested the password from me soon after I put it up, about the same time, If I remember correctly, that I let Trekkers in. After that he was pretty quiet. The Way Side came in early on as well, before all the trouble with the FA.

So your are denying that I and other Senators of the New Meritocracy warned you along with Trekkers and the FA about how the French previously invaded and spammed the United States. It also should be known that the older nations from the United States fled there from a French attack on the region America and they some how got delegacy.

As I said before, Garrison, I considered the big threat to be the FA. I recieved warnings about the French (I don't specifically recall if you personally sent one or not), but I considered them noisy but harmless. There were far more warnings with specifics and evidence about the FA threat.

So you call in the French to endorse you?


Region: United States
Delegate: Benjamin Franklin
Endorsements Received: 9 (-Iowa-, Kansas City Kitty, Teddy Roosevelt, Kevin Wood, The Way Side, The Thomas Jefferson, Dolesville, Architeuthis, Nothingg)

well even if Ben had called in the french,

as Stated by one of our Own Beloved Moderators, back in may of last year.

You can call in anyone you want to endorse you.

that is a paraphrase of the quote but

if you want specifics I will let the mod himself talk to you, and you can see for yourself. I would be more specific but it is part of a personal issue.

Trekkers at the time had 7 endorsements, he was being propped up by the invaders making him an invader delegate, and invader delegates have to telegram the password to all natives, which he didn't.

:evil: :evil: :evil:
I was a LEGITIMATE Immigrant to the United States and I was Booted out by this Invader, Moderators, I have lodged a Getting Help complaing about this, I was even advised by Democratic Colonies to Telegram Hrmmm and let him know I was a Settler, and He Still Booted me!

this is Griefing in action, Justice must be given to us in the US!

Unless anyone objects, I am going to eject:
Afghani Poppy Farmers
Church and State
Art Frahm

And give the password to:
Benwah (UN)
Shining America United
Andrew Jackson
Blight*
Ulysses S Grant* <>
The Orion Nebula< >

Already recieved or should have recieved the password:
Air Strip Two
Mattcorp (UN)
Kevin Wood (UN)
Trekkers (UN)
Democratic Colonies (UN)
Moderator Malice (UN)
Andistine (UN)
CosmicStarLight (UN)
Musez <>
The Mustang* <>
Kucinich
The Thomas Jefferson
-Iowa-
Benjamin Franklin
Teddy Roosevelt
Major Tom

I will resend the password to these nations to make sure they have it.

I'm sorry about that, but no one was really sure about whether or not you were in league with the French or not. You came in at around the same time, you voiced alot of support for them. I didn't really think you were with the French, but I wasen't totally sure either. While you may be ejected for now, you could try to come in again when the region is back under democratic control, and everything has settled down again.

Art Frahm your a relativley new nation, we didn't even notice you until Febuary so we were pretty sure you were an invader

So you call in the French to endorse you?


Region: United States
Delegate: Benjamin Franklin
Endorsements Received: 9 (-Iowa-, Kansas City Kitty, Teddy Roosevelt, Kevin Wood, The Way Side, The Thomas Jefferson, Dolesville, Architeuthis, Nothingg)

well even if Ben had called in the french,

as Stated by one of our Own Beloved Moderators, back in may of last year.

You can call in anyone you want to endorse you.

that is a paraphrase of the quote but

if you want specifics I will let the mod himself talk to you, and you can see for yourself. I would be more specific but it is part of a personal issue.

Trekkers at the time had 7 endorsements, he was being propped up by the invaders making him an invader delegate, and invader delegates have to telegram the password to all natives, which he didn't.

No it doesnt, you are getting pretty self rightious and uppity.
does that mean that if Architeuthis and Nothingg came toe the EP and endorsed me that I would become an Invader Delegate? Even though I was already Delegate, your Logic is seriously Flawed, and needs to be reconsidered.

also you knwo Architeuthis, Nothingg and another of these Invaders as you claim them to be were endorsing Trekkers, so by your ligic he too would be a Invader delgate.

That sounds like a good plan. I'm gonna go around and endorse everyone so that they become invaders. MUAAAHHHAHAHAHA.

Seriously, I was endorsing Trekkers when I first came in because he gave me the password. I was planning on taking over the US with my cohorts, but upon learning of the FA plan to try to take over, I switched my endorsement to Ben because I thought it would be funny to backstab the person who let me in in the first place. :twisted:

I really don't understand how you defenders can cheat and grief a region but still try to make it sound like you're going the right thing. :roll:

Art Frahm your a relativley new nation, we didn't even notice you until Febuary so we were pretty sure you were an invader

Sounds like "guilty until proven innocent" to me. You still have not explained to my satisfaction why you have a right to be in this discussion, Garrison. Why don't you leave those of us who have been in the region to straighten things out? You appear to have a vendetta against me for some reason and I am beginning to find your spurious arguments tiresome.

I really don't understand how you defenders can cheat and grief a region but still try to make it sound like you're going the right thing. :roll:
We have not cheated and I have not griefed the region. If I had ill intentions toward US, do you think I could have done a little better job and gotten myself deleted by now? I'm not about let this region fall into wrong hands under my watch, if it happens after I am gone, so be it, but while I am there, no harm will come to the region.

This situation is so complicated in fact, that even the moderators are having a hard time with it.
The Most Glorious Modified Puppet Nation of Glaaki
Received: 13 hours ago The Mod community is currently trying to sort everything out here. I'm sure you're aware of the conversation in the Forums.

I've forwarded what I've got to the other mods, and we'll hopefully have things figured out quickly.
This is not easy, finding natives among invaders and visa versa. Please be patient, and stop calling me a cheater/griefer.....

Well Lets See, , ,
You and Invader, passworded a region where you invaded during a politically ustable moment between Deelgates where it couldnt defend itself

You moved in 50 + UN nations most possibly Multies* to ensure that the Native who had the highest number of endorsements couldnt inany way gain teh Delegacy.

You have booted Natives and Legit Settlers.

And as for the Art Frahm guy, He isnt even in the UN, how is he a Threat to you?


SO tell me if Nothingg went to RPG University and endorsed Stephistan, would you try to Liberate the region from the "Invader Delegate" there as well? Lock the region down and start deciding who was native and who wasnt?

if he moved to the Heartland and Endorsed Grays Harbor, would you also move there and do the same?


* the Un nations moved into the region in clumps of 10 or so nations,
and usually 45 min to an hour apart looks suspicious to me,

I really don't understand how you defenders can cheat and grief a region but still try to make it sound like you're going the right thing. :roll:
We have not cheated and I have not griefed the region. If I had ill intentions toward US, do you think I could have done a little better job and gotten myself deleted by now? I'm not about let this region fall into wrong hands under my watch, if it happens after I am gone, so be it, but while I am there, no harm will come to the region.

This situation is so complicated in fact, that even the moderators are having a hard time with it.
The Most Glorious Modified Puppet Nation of Glaaki
Received: 13 hours ago The Mod community is currently trying to sort everything out here. I'm sure you're aware of the conversation in the Forums.

I've forwarded what I've got to the other mods, and we'll hopefully have things figured out quickly.
This is not easy, finding natives among invaders and visa versa. Please be patient, and stop calling me a cheater/griefer.....

uh huh..
and you think the mods didn't check if there are any multis there?
also, roleplay university has an active founder, the US doesn't

uh huh..
and you think the mods didn't check if there are any multis there?
also, roleplay university has an active founder, the US doesn't

the founder isn't the point, it is the whole
"If you have a single invader endorsement then you are the invader Delegate" thing.

of course they wont find the Multies there, they were booted out as soon as Hrmmm became Delegate, he took the seat with over a hundred endorsements then he booted half of his endorsees and unbanned them.

Well Lets See, , ,
You and Invader, passworded a region where you invaded during a politically ustable moment between Deelgates where it couldnt defend itself

Several of the defender organizations involved were contacted by natives of United States. They couldn't defend themselves, yes, and invaders were moving in after Arch was deleted, so they asked us to come defend them. Seeing as how that many different defender orgs had been contacted, we all believed (and still believe) that it was a worthy cause.

You moved in 50 + UN nations most possibly Multies* to ensure that the Native who had the highest number of endorsements couldnt inany way gain teh Delegacy.

And...

*the Un nations moved into the region in clumps of 10 or so nations,
and usually 45 min to an hour apart looks suspicious to me

Please refrain from accusations until there is definitive proof by Moderator action. The reason there were so many UN nations involved is because it was the collective effort of the Freedom Fighters, Alliance Defense Network, 10,000 Islands TITO, Sparrow's SECO, the North Pacific Army, the Rejected Realms Army, and volunteers from The Merit Military. It's easy to cry "multies" when such a force is combined, but orders from each organization were given at different times...and I personally watched them filter in all night. All in all, it took about 8-9 hours (appx. estimation) to get the 50+ troops into the region. I can't vouvh for everyone who participated (those who were watching also saw some "defender mercenaries" show up), but I know a good lot of them and they would never disobey the UN multi rule. I think most experienced invaders and defenders know that the Mods will catch you if you're in this business, especially in such a high-profile conflict such as this one has been.

You have booted Natives and Legit Settlers.

As Hrmmm said, it's a confusing mess. And as this thread and the one in Moderation shows, he's been trying his hardest to work with the natives to make sure no natives were booted--and if a mistake was made, to correct it.

And as for the Art Frahm guy, He isnt even in the UN, how is he a Threat to you?

A non-native is a non-native. Hrmmm even booted non-UN defender nations in an attempt to clear the region and further get clarity on who really belongs there. As for the non-UN threat, it's a common invader technique to either 1) slowly trickle non-UN nations into a region and later make them UN at the same time to take over a region, or 2) move a non-UN puppet into a region, so that if your UN nation is booted you can then switch UN membership. Moscovy recently demonstrated this technique to the utmost perfection in the AA re-invasion of 1 George Bush Too Many. Therefore non-UN, non-native nations are treated exactly the same as UN, non-native nations.

SO tell me if Nothingg went to RPG University and endorsed Stephistan, would you try to Liberate the region from the "Invader Delegate" there as well? Lock the region down and start deciding who was native and who wasnt?

if he moved to the Heartland and Endorsed Grays Harbor, would you also move there and do the same?

That's a completely different scenario than what has happened in United States. No one was considered an invader singularly based on their invader cross-endorsements. And although the natives seem divided about the intentions of each other, the defenders still see each side of the argument as natives and haven't ejected Ben Franklin or his competition. Those delegates you mentioned would of course not be considered invaders, although it is a funny thought to think of Stephistan taking up invading. More scary than funny, really. She'd clean up! :)

Well Lets See, , ,
You and Invader, passworded a region where you invaded during a politically ustable moment between Deelgates where it couldnt defend itself

Several of the defender organizations involved were contacted by natives of United States. They couldn't defend themselves, yes, and invaders were moving in after Arch was deleted, so they asked us to come defend them. Seeing as how that many different defender orgs had been contacted, we all believed (and still believe) that it was a worthy cause.
the only Invaders moving in after Architeuthis's deletion were YOUR members.


You moved in 50 + UN nations most possibly Multies* to ensure that the Native who had the highest number of endorsements couldnt inany way gain teh Delegacy.

And...

*the Un nations moved into the region in clumps of 10 or so nations,
and usually 45 min to an hour apart looks suspicious to me

Please refrain from accusations until there is definitive proof by Moderator action. The reason there were so many UN nations involved is because it was the collective effort of the Freedom Fighters, Alliance Defense Network, 10,000 Islands TITO, Sparrow's SECO, the North Pacific Army, the Rejected Realms Army, and volunteers from The Merit Military. It's easy to cry "multies" when such a force is combined, but orders from each organization were given at different times...and I personally watched them filter in all night. All in all, it took about 8-9 hours (appx. estimation) to get the 50+ troops into the region. I can't vouvh for everyone who participated (those who were watching also saw some "defender mercenaries" show up), but I know a good lot of them and they would never disobey the UN multi rule. I think most experienced invaders and defenders know that the Mods will catch you if you're in this business, especially in such a high-profile conflict such as this one has been.

If you had just left the region alone no one would be complaining about your actions.


You have booted Natives and Legit Settlers.

As Hrmmm said, it's a confusing mess. And as this thread and the one in Moderation shows, he's been trying his hardest to work with the natives to make sure no natives were booted--and if a mistake was made, to correct it.

And as for the Art Frahm guy, He isnt even in the UN, how is he a Threat to you?

A non-native is a non-native. Hrmmm even booted non-UN defender nations in an attempt to clear the region and further get clarity on who really belongs there. As for the non-UN threat, it's a common invader technique to either 1) slowly trickle non-UN nations into a region and later make them UN at the same time to take over a region, or 2) move a non-UN puppet into a region, so that if your UN nation is booted you can then switch UN membership. Moscovy recently demonstrated this technique to the utmost perfection in the AA re-invasion of 1 George Bush Too Many. Therefore non-UN, non-native nations are treated exactly the same as UN, non-native nations.

Guilty until Proven Innocent????????


SO tell me if Nothingg went to RPG University and endorsed Stephistan, would you try to Liberate the region from the "Invader Delegate" there as well? Lock the region down and start deciding who was native and who wasnt?

if he moved to the Heartland and Endorsed Grays Harbor, would you also move there and do the same?

That's a completely different scenario than what has happened in United States. No one was considered an invader singularly based on their invader cross-endorsements. And although the natives seem divided about the intentions of each other, the defenders still see each side of the argument as natives and haven't ejected Ben Franklin or his competition. Those delegates you mentioned would of course not be considered invaders, although it is a funny thought to think of Stephistan taking up invading. More scary than funny, really. She'd clean up! :)

Well, first off, if you Boot Ben then Bam, Proof of your invader status, you only have to make sure to keep enough invaders there to keep Hrmmm Delegate and Keep Ben from ever getting the seat back.

And lastly, Trekkers one of your Masters and his cronies have ben yelling that Ben is an invader Delegate because he had a Invader endorsement.
so dont go changing your story in midstream just because the sillyness of your words are pointed out to you.

loop, there were real invaders moving in after Arch. got deleted, i've seen it myself.
i do hope you won't call me a liar.

also, if we would've left the region alone, invaders would have taken over the region, that's exactly what we're fighting against.

I also posted this in the Mod topic on thissubject.

well lets put it this way For the Record,


United States

World Factbook Entry: If you don't wanna hear us, well, change the station; Boo! I sneak in your mind your mind; Sink in your mind, creep from behind; So fast that you won't have time; To deny a brother that's from the streets; Tryin to teach, hopin to reach; Yo, 187's not one that's known to preach; But I wish for each to have FREEDOM OF SPEECH. I have temporarily placed a password on this region. It will be lifted ASAP. Telegram me if you require the password.

UN Delegate: The Dazed and Confused Nation of Hrmmm.

Founder: Malagana

United States contains 60 nations. [List all nations]


the Founder Malagana is Dead, if this spot of founder is replaced then we will have proof posative of Griefing.

I also highlighted the illegal statement in the factbook.
this screen cap was taken just before this post was made.

Personally I suggest the Mods lift the PW, lock out delegate access to regional controls and leave it that way till the invaders and their delegate is gone and the true delegate Ben Franklin is back in power.

and i replied to that.
did Hrmmm put it up, or the former (deleted) delegate?

:evil: :evil: :evil:
I was a LEGITIMATE Immigrant to the United States and I was Booted out by this Invader, Moderators, I have lodged a Getting Help complaing about this, I was even advised by Democratic Colonies to Telegram Hrmmm and let him know I was a Settler, and He Still Booted me!

this is Griefing in action, Justice must be given to us in the US!

Unless anyone objects, I am going to eject:
Afghani Poppy Farmers
Church and State
Art Frahm

And give the password to:
Benwah (UN)
Shining America United
Andrew Jackson
Blight*
Ulysses S Grant* <>
The Orion Nebula< >

Already recieved or should have recieved the password:
Air Strip Two
Mattcorp (UN)
Kevin Wood (UN)
Trekkers (UN)
Democratic Colonies (UN)
Moderator Malice (UN)
Andistine (UN)
CosmicStarLight (UN)
Musez <>
The Mustang* <>
Kucinich
The Thomas Jefferson
-Iowa-
Benjamin Franklin
Teddy Roosevelt
Major Tom

I will resend the password to these nations to make sure they have it.

I'm sorry about that, but no one was really sure about whether or not you were in league with the French or not. You came in at around the same time, you voiced alot of support for them. I didn't really think you were with the French, but I wasen't totally sure either. While you may be ejected for now, you could try to come in again when the region is back under democratic control, and everything has settled down again.

I came in after Architeuthis was forced to unpassword the region to let you invaders in!
and of course Im a relativly new nation, you still booted me after I told you I wanted to settle there, and Democratic Colonies YOU told me to tell Hrmmm I was a new Settler! and now I cannot return because Im both Banned and the New invader has the region Illegally Passworded!

Mods, the last time a Invader passworded the US he was threatned with Deletion, and eventually was, Hrmmm needs to be Deleted as well.

AF

I'm not here to argue with you, Loop, but you're making a lot of assumptions and accusations that simply aren't true.

the only Invaders moving in after Architeuthis's deletion were YOUR members.

Look at the order of entrance list. And...we were told..."help, Farkers are moving in to take over!"

If you had just left the region alone no one would be complaining about your actions.

If it wasn't this defense, it will be the next one. Different people take different roles in this game, and some don't like the roles others take. I personally respect invaders that play fair and don't damage the regions they target, because invader/defender activity (sometimes referred to as "regional politics") has added another element to an already fun game.

Guilty until Proven Innocent????????

Non-native as proved non-native. I don't consider that method one of guilt, anyway, because it's a quite brilliant way for the invaders to effectively and steathily take a region, and makes them harder to catch (such as in 1GBTM).

Well, first off, if you Boot Ben then Bam, Proof of your invader status, you only have to make sure to keep enough invaders there to keep Hrmmm Delegate and Keep Ben from ever getting the seat back.

You completely miss my point. We have repeatedly told natives and some past defenders of the region (who believe Ben was in on it) that he is a native and therefore won't be ejected. There's plenty of proof of this on offsite forums if it came down to that. It was never a consideration of the defenders, because he is a native.

And lastly, Trekkers one of your Masters and his cronies have ben yelling that Ben is an invader Delegate because he had a Invader endorsement.

I know this, and I have personally felt the wrath of some of those "cronies" (in fairness, Trekkers was never one of them) because the defenders want to let the natives decide, and not put who they want in place. Whether or not they think he was in on the invasion, he's a native. The other natives have obviously been discussing this with him, and they seem to have come to an agreement about his status--which is part of the true intent of this thread. Secondly, no one is our master, particularly Trekkers. He had come to us before about United States, and we didn't take action then. We did when we saw Arch deleted and outside invaders moving in to take advantage of the situation, and after other natives asked us to help them.

so dont go changing your story in midstream just because the sillyness of your words are pointed out to you.

How have I changed my story? I know for a fact I haven't, because I've been reiterating the same truths over and over again. And the "sillyness" of my words? That's really not necessary, leaning towards flamebait, and I haven't been silly at all. I've taken this situation quite seriously because no matter how you perceive it, we consider ourselves to be defenders with integrity, who would like to do everything legally with only the best of intentions.

And, as I've said repeatedly of this:

I have temporarily placed a password on this region. It will be lifted ASAP. Telegram me if you require the password.

Hrmmm has given passwords to the natives, and did so almost immediately following the password protection of the region.

First off, Art I sympathise with you, you are the victim here at the hands of Griefers.

Now.

the last time I looked at the fark, regions I saw no movement between either of them and United States. admitadly this was a day ago.
Your "proof" is bunk. the only traffic is traffic From Unites States TO Farktopia, most likely your invaders going to strike there, I suggest Ack boot you out on your Hineys.

Your Entrance list can easily be edited to suit your Needs and cover the backsides that are in Fear of being proven to be Griefers.

You still booted a Settler who legally relocated there simply to keep him from becoming native so you dont have to illegally boot him before you refound the region.

Easiest way to let the Natives decide, LEAVE the region you are Griefing them. Trekkers and his FA folks got you in there he is obviously pulling your strings. Hrmmm is a member of the RRA the AA, and probably other groups how do you know he isnt part of the FA as well?

Lets see your folks say one invader endorsement makes a Invader delegate then you say you wouldnt consider Stephi or Grays to be invaders for one invader endorsement, however you conveninently leave consideration for me off. and last I checked the word Silly isnt flambait, however there are stronger words I could have used to make it flambaiting, you know what your caveman has been doing, trying to get me to flame him.

Hrmmm a member of the RRA and the AA?

now that's big news, where's Jerome?
where did you get this stuff, loop?
as far as i know, the RRA and the AA still don't like each other much (putting it mildly)
and umm...

i posted those entry listings on the ADN forum.

Why don't you tell us which "natives" asked for your help, Hope? You've been pretty vague, and while we think we have a pretty good idea, we'd like to confirm our suspicions...

Frahm, if you've filed a mod report, you may as well wait until it is acted upon. They have their blacklist and they're sticking to it, so we suggest not wasting your time for now. They will get theirs.

And, as I've said repeatedly of this:

I have temporarily placed a password on this region. It will be lifted ASAP. Telegram me if you require the password.

Hrmmm has given passwords to the natives, and did so almost immediately following the password protection of the region.

When France was Invaded by that guy from Polska he tried to do the same thing and was told that the method of passwording was ILLEGAL.
he was as I recall booted from teh UN for it.

Hrmmm is a INVADER, Invaders may not lock down regions unless ALL natives get teh password, he has said he doesnt know who all the natives are there fore it has to be assumed that he is withholding the pasword from some, in DC's posts he only lists like 10 nations as natives, the US had 50 when Ben was delegate, all the French are gone I think that there were 13 of them, there fore there are 27 natives without the password.

it is not the natives job to acquire the pw it is the invaders job to see to it that he sends it to them without their having to ask. and if a native gives the password to for example the AA and they enter, that means they were invited by a native and therefore cannot be booted as they were invited.

maby now you will understand why I take this issue so seriously, all the Citizens of US did was have one invader traded for another invader.they are no Better off now thatn they were before Hrmmm arrived, and they will remain an Oppressed people until the invaders are gone.

they pulled themselves out of the FA and the ADN , and now you are forcing them back into the fold.

Hrmmm a member of the RRA and the AA?

now that's big news, where's Jerome?
where did you get this stuff, loop?
as far as i know, the RRA and the AA still don't like each other much (putting it mildly)
and umm...

i posted those entry listings on the ADN forum.

CG, I read it in teh Network radio website, they interviewed Siggi and he admited to being both Hrmmm and Siggi.

i know Hrmmm and Siggi are not the same person, having spoken to them both at the same time on msn, having them both discussing things on my forum, and i know both their UN nations at the moment.

also, i think i know what you are talking about, read the article more careful, and you'll see you miss the R in there.

the last time I looked at the fark, regions I saw no movement between either of them and United States. admitadly this was a day ago.
Your "proof" is bunk. the only traffic is traffic From Unites States TO Farktopia, most likely your invaders going to strike there, I suggest Ack boot you out on your Hineys.

A day ago, we had already taken the region. There were invaders moving in, as CG and many others saw.

We are defenders. You make accusations constantly, and yet anyone who has known me knows that I would never be involved in a griefing, let alone lie the you constantly accuse me of doing. Take a closer look at the Regional Happenings of Farktopia. The not-invaders that didn't move in are coming home one by one. They arrive via the RR where Hrmmm sent them, or from US as he asked them to leave. I assure you no defenders are moving to Ack's region.

3 hours ago: The Republic of Snake n Bacon arrived from The Rejected Realms.
4 hours ago: The Republic of Yuccas arrived from Farkistan.
5 hours ago: The Non Sensibility of Veegeeville departed this region for The South Pacific
11 hours ago: The Wacko Jacko of Tedmonton arrived from The South Pacific.
12 hours ago: The Free Land of Grither arrived from United States.
13 hours ago: The Republic of Yuccas departed this region for Farkistan
16 hours ago: The Very Francophonic Queendom of Liberated Womyn arrived from The Rejected Realms.
21 hours ago: The Dominion of Nowakia arrived from The East Pacific.
1 day ago: The Republic of Yuccas arrived from The South Pacific.

Your Entrance list can easily be edited to suit your Needs and cover the backsides that are in Fear of being proven to be Griefers.

Once again, you accuse me of dishonesty. You make a gross misjudgment in doing so. And yes, I got both lists from CG, as we worked for the last few days on the ADN forum trying to keep all natives in the region.

You still booted a Settler who legally relocated there simply to keep him from becoming native so you dont have to illegally boot him before you refound the region.

No, we didn't. Where is all this coming from about refounding a region? I know you hate defenders, but you're really stretching with these accusations.

Easiest way to let the Natives decide, LEAVE the region you are Griefing them. Trekkers and his FA folks got you in there he is obviously pulling your strings.

Funny that the natives are currently still discussing who the natives are, while choosing their delegate without the interference of invaders (and it's looking to be Ben so far). Once again, Trekkers did not get us in there. And once again, if he were pulling our strings we would have endorsed the FA's chosen delegate, instead of doing it the way we did in order to let the natives decide.

Hrmmm is a member of the RRA the AA, and probably other groups how do you know he isnt part of the FA as well?

Now that is just interesting...Hrmmm is definitely not in the AA, for one. He is a member of the ADN, though.

Lets see your folks say one invader endorsement makes a Invader delegate then you say you wouldnt consider Stephi or Grays to be invaders for one invader endorsement, however you conveninently leave consideration for me off.

What? Anyway, my folks don't say that, but some of the natives and past defenders have.

and last I checked the word Silly isnt flambait, however there are stronger words I could have used to make it flambaiting, you know what your caveman has been doing, trying to get me to flame him.

Silly in itself may not be flamebait, but in the context you use it it can be borderline at best. He's not my caveman, and I don't make decisions for him. I've tried to stay out of these threads because you constantly call me a liar and show me no respect whatsoever, no matter how respectfully I try to answer your accusations. I don't think he was trying to flame you, I think he was trying to tell you he didn't like how you were speaking to me--I can't choose the words of other people for them. Neither do I, but I try to remain as respectful, patient, and honest as anyone directly involved in this should be.

Well I figure I should add my Nickle.
I founded Italy, and we were briefly allied with the ADN , when I petetioned that they move some folks in or perhaps do a little advertisement for us, you know to make our regional population grow and make our membership in the Alliance worth it I was told.


Just shut your mouth and do as you are Told!


I immeadiatly pulled out and booted their Delegate out of our region.
they immeadiatly tried to invade and take over much like what they have done to the US, I have never given Delegates access to region al control and that added to my booting of their members threw them off.

I was later told by a friend that when I allied with the AA that the ADN filed complaints with the mods about my booting of their delegate in order to get me deleted to give them access to the region.

I thank you for taking the time to read this.
Viva Italy,
Viva Audrey Hepburn,
Viva Vespa!!

Deus ex Fiat.

Visit Italy, Im sure you will want to stay!

Yes, this coming from an AA member, the so-called arch enemy of the ADN.

Since I have been in the ADN, Italy was never a part of it. Since I have been in the ADN, nothing even close to that has ever happened. You were a member of the SCDT, is that what you're talking about? I've been an ADN member since last summer, and Director since New Year's this year, and nothing of the sort has ever transpired.

It's sad that the natives of US started this thread to try and work out the native status of their members, and others have sabotaged it in attempts to create propaganda against defender groups.

Pope Hope, I am Founder of Farkistan, and I think I can Speak for Ackbar on this those people you are accusing of being farkers are not members of either of our regions. One could easily make a nation and move it into a region to set them up to look like invaders.

Now I know I have asked once already that you people quit slandering our Lovely Fark regions in this stupid thread, Farkers are not out there invading on 'Topia's or 'Istan's behalf.

If this slander continues I will File a Mod request for action being taken against you, So please, keep off our back and let us be.

Regards
Cupertino
"I have been here longer than most of you in this argument."

sorry but I find this funny,
"We are not at war with Eurasia, We have never been at war with Eurasia"

Also looks like after reading Deus ex Fiats post, you guys drove him to join the AA.

Yes, this coming from an AA member, the so-called arch enemy of the ADN.

Since I have been in the ADN, Italy was never a part of it. Since I have been in the ADN, nothing even close to that has ever happened. You were a member of the SCDT, is that what you're talking about? I've been an ADN member since last summer, and Director since New Year's this year, and nothing of the sort has ever transpired.

It's sad that the natives of US started this thread to try and work out the native status of their members, and others have sabotaged it in attempts to create propaganda against defender groups.

sorry but I find this funny,
"We are not at war with Eurasia, We have never been at war with Eurasia"

Also looks like after reading Deus ex Fiats post, you guys drove him to join the AA.

Actually, Italy joined the AA after leaving the SCDT because of a conflict with Sarda and the SCDT. If you like, I'm sure New People or MrNonchalant will attest to this, especially since we are currently at a ceasefire with the AA and Deus spreading untrue propaganda violates that treaty.

sorry but I find this funny,
"We are not at war with Eurasia, We have never been at war with Eurasia"

Also looks like after reading Deus ex Fiats post, you guys drove him to join the AA.

Actually, Italy joined the AA after leaving the SCDT because of a conflict with Sarda and the SCDT. If you like, I'm sure New People or MrNonchalant will attest to this, especially since we are currently at a ceasefire with the AA and Deus spreading untrue propaganda violates that treaty.

Funny your post quoted above say you are Enemies of the AA, which is it Enemies or Cease Fire allies?

Also I'm inclined to believe the Founder of Italy when it comes to Italian matters than an outside group.

Funny your post quoted above say you are Enemies of the AA, which is it Enemies or Cease Fire allies?

Any member of the ADN or AA would laugh at that. We have always been arch enemies, but entered a ceasefire a month or so back. A highly disputed ceasefire, btw. How does a ceasefire make the two groups allies?

Also I'm inclined to believe the Founder of Italy when it comes to Italian matters than an outside group.

Well then hopefully he'll come back and correct his statement. It could have been an honest mistake, because Sarda modeled the structure of the SCDT (even the forums) after the ADN.

And again, you imply I'm a liar. I'm inclined to believe I know who is a member of the organization of which I am Director. All I can tell you is the truth...as long as I have been active in the ADN, Italy hasn't been a member, and nothing like what he described happened. I can only speak of what has happened since I have been a member, but can't believe the Founders ever would have let something like that happen.

Anyway, it would be nice to see this thread turn away from propaganda against any group, and back to its original intention.

Well honestly if your people would just leave the Unites States alone then all this could be forgotten,
As for propaganda, if it isnt someone talking about you then your people are talking about the people of the two Fark regions, and I know Cupertino has been in here twice to ask you to not slander his/her region and its sister region.
If you are not their enemies then under a cease fire you are kinda allies.
if you are under a cease fire and you still call them enemies then how do you think they feel?

So all I ask is pull out your troops, Let the Unites States be its own entity, not a oppressed lapdog of a alliance it doesnt want to be a member of.

Set the People of the United States Free

*edit*
this is just an after though,
If you guys had come in and endorsed Ben Franklin the Legitimate Delegate, and allowed him to sort out the problem, then Even I would be singing your praises.

Also I dont plan on posting anymore on this subject as I have said my peace, several times in fact. further repeating of the same thing in kinda pointless, although I dont make any promises, I may come back and post again.

Well, to clear up one thing... I am the Second in Command of the Freedom Fighters. I am the Head of Intelligence of the Freedom Fighters(anyone in the FF can attest to this)

I am an active member of the Allied Defense Network, both in intelligence and the military and have been given permission to go ahead and give orders to ADN members. (verifyable by most ADN members)

I also am a member of the RRA as an intelligence agent. (verifyable by the high commanders of the RRA, Siggi, and Greymarshes)

There are just so many accusations going around in this thread I cannot even begin to counter them. I am being called a cheater, and a griefer. Neither of which are true as I have been selective when ejecting nations, and have only ejected roughly 20-25 nations, if that. Someone please correct me if I am wrong. I have unbanned and given the password to those who I have mistakenly ejected. How is this cheating? I have recieved many many requests for the password from fellow defenders(yes, I agree, we are considered invaders also) and I have refused to give it to them because we no longer need help. I have not asked anyone to leave directly although I have posted on the message board something along the lines of "please just leave invaders" I also have not asked anyone to stay and support me. In fact I have done the oposite. Just last night I posted on the message board who the elected delegate was so I could transfer power to them. I am getting tired of this situation dragging on so long. Progress is being made as they now have a forum to work things out.

I don't appreciate the accusations against the ADN either. If you are accusing me, you are accusing the ADN, they are family to me. I am asking nicely, although I am sure it won't work, to please refrain from throwing around statements without adequate proof. If you say something worth while, be able to back it up(all sides to this argument). Also, can we please get back on topic? Are there any other nations not mentioned previously as deserving the password or ejection that should be considered either way?

Hrmmm, would you answer a couple simple questions from an actual native of the region?

1. Did you password the region and immediatly send the password to all natives?

2. Did you eject natives and keep them on the ban list?

In fact I have done the oposite. Just last night I posted on the message board who the elected delegate was so I could transfer power to them. I am getting tired of this situation dragging on so long. Progress is being made as they now have a forum to work things out.

Based on the endorsements, I believe that would be me. I set up the Forum at Andistine's request (although it's evident that he doesn't trust me again yet) and I plan on letting only known natives onto that board and then establishing a democratic method for granting citizenship to new nations.

I think it's time for a transfer of power.

The forum is at <http://s4.invisionfree.com/NSUS/>.
Natives please sign up and then send me a telegram from your nation so that I can verify your identity.

Hrmmm, would you answer a couple simple questions from an actual native of the region?

1. Did you password the region and immediatly send the password to all natives?

2. Did you eject natives and keep them on the ban list?
1. As soon as I knew who the natives were, they were given the password.

2. Most definately not. If I did, I appologize for it. I did mistakenly eject 2 natives, but appologized to them and unbanned them and gave them the password. Both are now in the region again.

I think it's time for a transfer of power.
I agree. This process of electing a new delegate must be democratic though. No funny business, no favoritism/discrimination.

Pope Hope, I am Founder of Farkistan, and I think I can Speak for Ackbar on this those people you are accusing of being farkers are not members of either of our regions. One could easily make a nation and move it into a region to set them up to look like invaders.

Now I know I have asked once already that you people quit slandering our Lovely Fark regions in this stupid thread, Farkers are not out there invading on 'Topia's or 'Istan's behalf.

If this slander continues I will File a Mod request for action being taken against you, So please, keep off our back and let us be.

Regards
Cupertino
"I have been here longer than most of you in this argument."

Why is it your goal always to invade the America region, also your people impersonated Trekkers, and OTP and spread lies about him, so I wouldn't say anything about slander if I was you.

1 Infinite Loop why do you care so much about this subject, what intrest do you have.

1 Infinite Loop why do you care so much about this subject, what intrest do you have.

Garrison II why do you care so much about this subject, what intrest do you have?

I am glad to see things finally winding down.

For the record, when we entered United States, the natives were split in two and each side wanted basically either Benjamin Franklin or Andistine to become the delegate, and each side wanted a different one endorsed as native delegate. Rather than choose sides (since it's not our business to place native delegates) we elected a defender delegate who's purpose was simply to help the natives to clear out the region of invaders and fairly elect there own delegate, on their own, without our influence. It looks as if they have done that, and that it is Ben. Since it's a native placement, I congratulate you and further admire you for your dedication to your region.

As for the Farkers...this is from their regional board. I copied it last night before I went to bed. It starts when they first began entering United States:

Farktopia Regional Board

3 days ago The Republic of Gnome Kidnappers

I just received an important telegram from Farkopia;
The UN Delegate for United States has ceased to exist for unknown reasons. He was a good friend to farkers. There are no defenses for the region at this time. The delegate- in-waiting has 9 votes. We must seize the opportunity to take over a region of this size and create and official alliance. They have over 51 nations. If any UN members are available to come and assist in the seizing of power please relocate your troops and endorse Farkopia. This is the greatest opportunity we will have. Besides the regional women there love throat yogurt. :o Please come to help in our Farktopia cause.

I went back to record this board because I specifically remembered that last comment...ew.

3 days ago The Republic of Gnome Kidnappers

Come on Farkers we can do this, by my calculations, the number of endorsements that we will be trailing by is around 7

2 days ago The Republic of Gnome Kidnappers

Well we tried, thanks to those who supported our cause. Unfortunately the region fell into the hands of a rival whose intentions are unknown at this time.

2 days ago The Sultanate of Farkstantinopal

Hey if you guys are interested in forming an alliance, let me know, we need to unite, not merge just mutual defence alliance.

1 day ago The Newspaper of Atlanta Constitution

Attention, I have heard some disturbing things abotu the Fark regions I wish to do a Interview with whom ever is willing and represents the region. Please TM me.

14 hours ago The Very Francophonic Queendom of Liberated Womyn

Don't you hate it when you leave your nation for a few days and come back to find it ejected? Sheesh.

9 hours ago The Wacko Jacko of Tedmonton

I'm in exile by the UN mod gods. SO here I am.

That's all very interesting, but it just goes to show that the nations in the Fark regions were just going to help out because the region was being invaded by the FA and ADN.

Rather than choose sides (since it's not our business to place native delegates) we elected a defender delegate who's purpose was simply to help the natives to clear out the region of invaders and fairly elect there own delegate, on their own, without our influence. It looks as if they have done that, and that it is Ben. Since it's a native placement, I congratulate you and further admire you for your dedication to your region.
Actually PH, they are beginning elections on their off site forum. Hopefully they come up with something soon. (hint hint) :roll:

That's all very interesting, but it just goes to show that the nations in the Fark regions were just going to help out because the region was being invaded by the FA and ADN.

Actually, I think it quite clearly proves the opposite. We weren't in there yet, which is also proven because there were only 51-ish nations in there when we came to help (see order of entry). And the seven other defender groups didn't come in with the FA at all...in fact I thought that was one of their native regions?

Actually PH, they are beginning elections on their off site forum. Hopefully they come up with something soon. (hint hint)

Ah, well that's good to hear, Hrmmm. And probably the best way to do it. Kudos to them for creating a forum. Hopefully you'll be able to return home very soon. :)

And I was in there almost 2 months without making any attempt to take over until I heard the US was being "liberated" from itself.

I'm still trying to figure out what your whole mission was. The natives say they didn't want you and the supposed invaders weren't even causing trouble. Why did you come?

You claim you didn't do this to help the FA, but the only natives who are happy about your presence are the ones in the FA. Seems kinda contradictory to me.

The invaders were trying to invade, which was apparently causing trouble in the minds of the natives or they wouldn't have asked for outside help. It is not only the FA natives that have thanked us, and many who were unhappy have since been proven to be invaders. How many in the region are actually FA? I was thinking there were only a few.

I've said all of this many times, and so have others. Now I really think we should try to leave the rest to the natives to work out amongst themselves...I think everyone is very happy that it's almost over.

I think everyone is very happy that it's almost over.
You got that right!!

I think everyone is very happy that it's almost over.
You got that right!!

You can stop it right here. All you have to do is leave. You've done your job. You've held your pseudo-trials, you've booted everyone who you thought was an invader. You've forced an offsite forum for the region. We've got a new delegate endorsed.
What are you waiting for?
Is this a long term occupation? Have you decided to stay in this region?

I think everyone is very happy that it's almost over.
You got that right!!

You can stop it right here. All you have to do is leave. You've done your job. You've held your pseudo-trials, you've booted everyone who you thought was an invader. You've forced an offsite forum for the region. We've got a new delegate endorsed.
What are you waiting for?
Is this a long term occupation? Have you decided to stay in this region?
Whoa whoa whoa, hold your horses there dude. Since when did I force anything other than a password onto the region. The forum was a native's idea. Andistine I belive, and Ben Franklin created it. Make sure you know what's happening before you start making accusations.

I think everyone is very happy that it's almost over.
You got that right!!

You can stop it right here. All you have to do is leave. You've done your job. You've held your pseudo-trials, you've booted everyone who you thought was an invader. You've forced an offsite forum for the region. We've got a new delegate endorsed.
What are you waiting for?
Is this a long term occupation? Have you decided to stay in this region?
Whoa whoa whoa, hold your horses there dude. Since when did I force anything other than a password onto the region. The forum was a native's idea. Andistine I belive, and Ben Franklin created it. Make sure you know what's happening before you start making accusations.

Repeat post, sorry

force ( P ) Pronunciation Key (fôrs, frs)
n.
1. Power made operative against resistance; exertion: use force in driving a nail.
2. The use of physical power or violence to compel or restrain: a confession obtained by force.

Please be aware of the English langauage before you start making accusations that I don't know what I'm talking about.

But that's beside the point, stay on topic. You've got everything you've asked for, what keeps you there when you don't want to be there, Pope doesn't want to be there, and 95% of the region really wants you to leave? If your intent was to stop an invasion and make sure a native delegate gets democratically elected, why are you still there? Isn't your job done?

2. The use of physical power or violence to compel or restrain: a confession obtained by force.

We know that's what force is. We just don't understand what you mean when you say the ADN forced a forum onto the region. Could you please explain? If the forum was Andistine's idea and Ben's creation, how could it have been forced upon them by invaders, unless Andistine and Ben are invaders? And since we've already establish that they are both about as native as they come....

2. The use of physical power or violence to compel or restrain: a confession obtained by force.

We know that's what force is.

Evidently not however I'll help you. If you weren't there would an offsite forum have been established? No. You are forcing an offsite forum because the current democratic process inherent in the game whereby you add an endorsement to your delegate of choice does not seem to be enough as witnessed by your continued presence. Therefore to be rid of you it appears some other method of electing someone is required to make you go away. Since the game is not acceptable to you some other method is required to have these "Democratic" elections. Hence, you are forcing an alternate means of elections/communications resulting in an offsite forum.

Clear enough?

Now, since I've been gracious enough to answer your questions, please return the favor and answer my question put to you for the third time. If your intent was to stop an invasion and make sure a native delegate gets democratically elected, why are you still there? Isn't your job done?

Evidently not however I'll help you.
If the forum was encouraged by native Andistine and built by native Ben, how is that invaders forcing a forum? You still haven't explained that.

If you weren't there would an offsite forum have been established? No.
How can you be so sure? Haven't I told you that it was two natives that are responsible for that forum?

You are forcing an offsite forum because the current democratic process inherent in the game whereby you add an endorsement to your delegate of choice does not seem to be enough as witnessed by your continued presence. Therefore to be rid of you it appears some other method of electing someone is required to make you go away. Since the game is not acceptable to you some other method is required to have these "Democratic" elections. Hence, you are forcing an alternate means of elections/communications resulting in an offsite forum.
We only specified "democratic elections", but there's a reason for offsite elections. Some nations do not see losing sovereignty to the UN as an acceptable solution, and non-forum elections basically force them to join the UN anyway. An election on a forum is a good solution to that. And there are other uses for an offsite forum besides an election, so it's a good idea to have one regardless. Furthermore, even if we'd used straight-up endorsement method, it makes sense to stay in a region until everything is stable, to keep the Farkers and such from just coming in again and taking the region whilst Ben, Andistine et al wait for nations to wake up and endorse them. Both processes take time, plenty of time for well-organized invaders to crash and grief a region.

Clear enough?
Now that I've cleared it up, it might be :wink:

Now, since I've been gracious enough to answer your questions, please return the favor and answer my question put to you for the third time. If your intent was to stop an invasion and make sure a native delegate gets democratically elected, why are you still there? Isn't your job done?
Our job is done when the region is stable. If it isn't the opinion of my commanders that the region is stable, they're probably a better judge of that than you and I are, as they have far more experience with invasions, defenses, and aftermaths than we do.

Double post

We only specified "democratic elections", but there's a reason for offsite elections. Some nations do not see losing sovereignty to the UN as an acceptable solution, and non-forum elections basically force them to join the UN anyway.


So let me get this straight. You are saying you won't leave becuase you feel the game imposes restrictions on who can be UN delegate by having to register with the UN. To solve that you are FORCING elections that include nations not in the UN through your continued presence in the region. So you are in effect telling us that we have to play the game according to your rules and not the games mechanics in order to get the region back.

Please, correct me where I'm wrong.

I hate to have to break my silence, but this is looking more and more like a Griefing with each passing day.

Moderators would you have allowed Architeuthis to impose this kind of edict upon a hapless region?

the Locals have said that they want Ben Franklin as their delegate, and he is not being allowed to be delegate.
it even looks like they (the ADN and FA) are trying to establish one of their own as a native covertly in order to take the region.

this issue needs to be resolved immeadiatly.

We only specified "democratic elections", but there's a reason for offsite elections. Some nations do not see losing sovereignty to the UN as an acceptable solution, and non-forum elections basically force them to join the UN anyway.


So let me get this straight. You are saying you won't leave becuase you feel the game imposes restrictions on who can be UN delegate by having to register with the UN. To solve that you are FORCING elections that include nations not in the UN through your continued presence in the region. So you are in effect telling us that we have to play the game according to your rules and not the games mechanics in order to get the region back.

Please, correct me where I'm wrong.
You're wrong in that I never said anyone had to do anything. I only gave a reason for offsite elections. There are arguments for doing it both ways. I never said anyone had to have them. Furthermore, you keep talking about my presence in the region, but I'm not actually in the region. In fact, I was on the banlist until yesterday. And furthermore, your use of the term "get the region back" confuses me. Who are we getting the region back from? There was no delegate when we came it. And who are we trying to give it to? Whoever the natives pick, that's who. So we're trying to give the region back to the delegates.

I hate to have to break my silence, but this is looking more and more like a Griefing with each passing day.
One man's opinion. I think it's simply looked like a big mess ever since the deletion.

Moderators would you have allowed Architeuthis to impose this kind of edict upon a hapless region?
What kind of edict? An edict that there be a democratic election?

the Locals have said that they want Ben Franklin as their delegate, and he is not being allowed to be delegate.
Which natives said that? Have all the natives spoken and voted?

it even looks like they (the ADN and FA) are trying to establish one of their own as a native covertly in order to take the region.
Tell us which nation that is? The FA were mad that we didn't endorse their "chosen delegate" from the beginning. We obviously weren't trying to install their puppet, otherwise we would've done it at the earliest and most confused time. And whatever nation you think we're covertly establishing most certainly wouldn't show up on the ADN member list.

this issue needs to be resolved immeadiatly.
It needs to be resolved ASAP. Which should be very soon, or I will begin to ask questions as well.

I recieved this telegram just a little while ago.


Received: 1 day ago Word on the street is the ADN want to do this major crazy pull down on Italy soon. I'll try and let you know if I see anything up.
Please delete this Telegram upon Reading it.

I can assure you that whatever nation sent you that has no idea what they are talking about. If we were planning on making any such move, I would already be preparing to move into Italy, which I can assure you I am not.

You're wrong in that I never said anyone had to do anything. I only gave a reason for offsite elections.

When you used the word "We" I naturally assumed you were including yourself in the invader group currently holding the US. You must have meant we in the exclusionary sense. :roll:


There are arguments for doing it both ways. I never said anyone had to have them.

Wrong. The invaders continued precense indicates that there is some "Task" that hasn't been accomplished in order for the group which you are not a part of to leave. Since you answered the question I assumed you actually were talking using some knowledge I did not know. I did not realize you were guessing.


Furthermore, you keep talking about my presence in the region, but I'm not actually in the region. In fact, I was on the banlist until yesterday.

Oh , sorry, didn't realize you weren't there. (See "We" in point 1). Since you aren't there and don't know whats going on maybe you should stop responding when one asks a pointed question to a specific group which you are not a part of.


And furthermore, your use of the term "get the region back" confuses me. Who are we getting the region back from? There was no delegate when we came it. And who are we trying to give it to?

Hmmm, us. The Natives. We would like it back. The natives being those who would like it back. In fact if the group which you are not a part of hadn't barged in Benjamin Franklin would have been delegate. Seeing as he has 200% more endorsements than anyone else in the region right now, it would appear the same result would be accomplished. Of course that all depends on the invaders actually keeping their word.


Whoever the natives pick, that's who. So we're trying to give the region back to the delegates.
See Benjamin Franklin in the last point.

Thanks for responding. :roll:

When you used the word "We" I naturally assumed you were including yourself in the invader group currently holding the US. You must have meant we in the exclusionary sense. :roll:
I'm saying "we" as in the ADN. We never insisted, at least to the best of my knowledge, on an offsite election.

Wrong. The invaders continued precense indicates that there is some "Task" that hasn't been accomplished in order for the group which you are not a part of to leave.
Until all the UN natives have endorsed someone, the "task" that is the election hasn't really been completed, has it? And if every UN native has endorsed someone, then show us, and we should leave. Unless you're holding an offsite election like you claim we're "forcing you" to.

Oh , sorry, didn't realize you weren't there. (See "We" in point 1). Since you aren't there and don't know whats going on maybe you should stop responding when one asks a pointed question to a specific group which you are not a part of.
Just because my UN nation didn't participate in the defense doesn't mean I don't know what's going on. I have frequent contact with both Hrmmm and Pope Hope.

Hmmm, us. The Natives. We would like it back. The natives being those who would like it back.
I, too, would like you guys to have it back when either elections occur or all the endorsements have been made.

In fact if the group which you are not a part of hadn't barged in Benjamin Franklin would have been delegate.
Actually, if the ADN (of which I am a member) hadn't come in, the Farkers would've likely continued their invasion, and their delegate would be in power.

Seeing as he has 200% more endorsements than anyone else in the region right now, it would appear the same result would be accomplished. Of course that all depends on the invaders actually keeping their word.
I'd also guess that Franklin will win, if I had to bet. When all the endorsements are in, and/or there is an offsite election, we will know for sure.

See Benjamin Franklin in the last point.
I saw :wink:

Thanks for responding. :roll:
You're welcome :wink:

Wrong. The invaders continued precense indicates that there is some "Task" that hasn't been accomplished in order for the group which you are not a part of to leave.
Until all the UN natives have endorsed someone, the "task" that is the election hasn't really been completed, has it? And if every UN native has endorsed someone, then show us, and we should leave. Unless you're holding an offsite election like you claim we're "forcing you" to.

All the UN natives have endorsed someone. The offsite forum is not so much involved in elections right now as what would we do if we even elected someone other than Ben. There are only 7 people registered in 3 days yet most everyone in that region has been online today.
The problem is just like every other democracy. Everyone has a potential vote yet no one wants to take the time to actually be involved in the democratic process. They vote who they like for whatever reason and stick with it.
The offsite forum is just like every other government organization. No one likes the way things are going so you wind up arguing about procedure for six months of a seven month project. If you are waiting for a result from the offsite forum then I suggest you pitch a couple of tents and get ready for the long haul. Better yet, build yourself a log cabin for the next winter season.

All the UN natives have endorsed someone.
Show us, I said. Not tell us...telling us doesn't make it true. Also...

The offsite forum is not so much involved in elections right now as what would we do if we even elected someone other than Ben.
Clarify this sentence.

All the UN natives have endorsed someone.
Show us, I said. Not tell us...telling us doesn't make it true. Also...


List of UN natives:

-iowa- - voted /native
andistine - voted /native
benjamin_franklin - voted /native
benwah - voted /native
blight - voted /native
captain_santa_island - voted /native
car_ramrod - voted /native
church_and_state - voted /native
cosmicstarlight - voted /native
democratic_colonies - voted /native
dunkelheit - voted /native
kevin_wood - voted /native
major_tom - voted /native
teddy_roosevelt - voted /native
the_thomas_jefferson - voted /native
topgunflyerj - voted /native
trekkers - voted /native

I would also like to point out that since "The Dragons Shadow" arrived
on February 12 and was never in the region before that he is an invader
that is now endorsing natives.

The offsite forum is not so much involved in elections right now as what would we do if we even elected someone other than Ben.
Clarify this sentence.[/quote]
How? What don't you understand? We aren't having elections currently. We are still trying to work out what we are doing.

Show us, I said. Not tell us...telling us doesn't make it true.


Are you from Missouri?

Votes have not been counted from these nations who were UN natives on the list:

Moderator Malice
Asia45
Mattcorp
John Kerry

About that sentence...you make it seem like there's be some kind of "thing that must be done" if Ben is not elected...no matter who's elected, the same things must be done.

And about Missouri...why does that even matter? Answer: it doesn't.

Moderator Malice
Asia45
Mattcorp
John Kerry

Asia45 has a nation on the list that's being counted (I'm not sure how public that identity is, so I'm not going to list it here) and John Kerry is an admitted invader.

I don't know about Moderator Malice and Mattcorp, but since they've logged on recently, (3 days ago and 1 day ago if memory serves) I think its safe to assume that they are abstaining.

Votes have not been counted from these nations who were UN natives on the list:

Moderator Malice
Asia45
Mattcorp
John Kerry


So, again with the math. Let's start with the nations having the most endorsements (not counting the current invader delegate):
Benjamin Franklin 12
Trekkers 5
Andistine 4

So lets say those 4 all endorse trekkers. Now Trekkers has 9. Since 12 is still greater than 9 in my universe then the outcome of their vote makes no difference in the eventual outcome.
Now, if you have a further argument along the lines of "Ah, but not everyone has voted" then fine. You are a long term invasion force since some of those nation you mentioned may not ever vote becuase they are UNDECIDED and do not wish to sign up for the forum.
Please, come up with another excuse why the invasion force of which you are a part of is still helping us.


And about Missouri...why does that even matter? Answer: it doesn't

I believe that was a joke. You know, humor.

Edit: I see that you posted at the same time as me and you already put up your excuse below mine. Can you at leat introduce our new overlords and masters so that we may get to know our opressors better?

Asia45 has a nation on the list that's being counted (I'm not sure how public that identity is, so I'm not going to list it here)
So who's multi is he?

and John Kerry is an admitted invader.
Fair enough.

I don't know about Moderator Malice and Mattcorp, but since they've logged on recently, (3 days ago and 1 day ago if memory serves) I think its safe to assume that they are abstaining.
Then again, maybe they're waiting for the offsite election.

So, again with the math. Let's start with the nations having the most endorsements (not counting the current invader delegate):
Benjamin Franklin 12
Trekkers 5
Ansitine 4


So lets say those 4 all endorse trekkers. Now Trekkers has 9. Since 12 is still greater than 9 in my universe then the outcome of their vote makes no difference in the evetual outcome.
Unless Andistine tells his supporters to vote for Trekkers....

Now, if you have a further argument along the lines of "Ah, but not everyone has voted" then fine. You are a long term invasion force since some of those nation you mentioned may not ever vote becuase they are UNDECIDED and do not wish to sign up for the forum.
Please, come up with another excuse why the invasion force of which you are a part of is still helping us.
I don't quite understand why I need to be making excuses. Hrmmm has run more defenses than you and I put together have seen. He knows how to do his job...it would be easier if y'all let him do it.


And about Missouri...why does that even matter? Answer: it doesn't

I believe that was a joke. You know, humor.
I don't get it...I know humor. That wasn't it...because humor is supposed to be funny :wink:

Unless Andistine tells his supporters to vote for Trekkers....

Let's see if we can play match game...

Andistines endorsements:
Endorsements Received: 4 (Democratic Colonies, Trekkers, The Dragons Shadow, Topgunflyerj)
Trekkers Endorsements:
Endorsements Received: 5 (Democratic Colonies, The Dragons Shadow, Nem, Topgunflyerj, Andistine)

Look at that, just like sesame street. And lo and behold...The Dragons Shadow and Nem are not even natives (according to the "official" list you keep quoting) so that Trekkers and Andistine are being propped up by invaders.

Next excuse about why you're still there. If your answer is "Hrmmm knows what he's doing" don't bother replying. I'd like to hear Hrmmm in that case.

Edit: I see that you posted at the same time as me and you already put up your excuse below mine. Can you at leat introduce our new overlords and masters so that we may get to know our opressors better?
Sorry...triple-posting...

Well...if you want to call them that, you're being very misleading but:

Pope Hope (or Hope-a-Pope or Pope-a-Hope, as I call her) is one of the most genuinely kind and committed people I've ever worked with anywhere, period. She knows her stuff, and she always does her best to do what's right. Not the type of person you can call an overlord, master or oppressor without revealing that you're a UN multi without a heart.

Hrmmm is the single best defender and invasion-finder I know of in the game. Like I said, he knows what he's doing. Best to let him do it, for the good of the region you're supposedly speaking for.

Pope Hope (or Hope-a-Pope or Pope-a-Hope, as I call her) is one of the most genuinely kind and committed people I've ever worked with anywhere, period. She knows her stuff, and she always does her best to do what's right. Not the type of person you can call an overlord, master or oppressor without revealing that you're a UN multi without a heart.

Hrmmm is the single best defender and invasion-finder I know of in the game. Like I said, he knows what he's doing.

I never said they weren't nice people. In fact, thank you for introducing me to our opressive overlords. That's exactly what I asked for. Maybe I can invite them out to tea now.


Best to let him do it, for the good of the region you're supposedly speaking for.
Don't ever question my loyalty to the United States. I will continually fight for the freedom of the United States until my death. I will not accept your organizations occupation of my region and will continue to point out how your organization is not what it represents itself to be until you leave my region.

If you were fighting for the freedom of the region why did you endorse the French who chased people from the region America to the United States?

If you were fighting for the freedom of the region why did you endorse the French who chased people from the region America to the United States?

I have no idea what you are talking about.

I will say this, I endorsed the delegates that most closely resemble the values I find admirable in america. Creativity, intellegence, and strong values for Freedom. I endorsed Ben becuase of this. He let people immigrate into America and showed intellegence and creativity to solving the problems of the region. I happen to know that he was very busy with real life during his delegacy and could only drop in when he was able to steal some time away.
I didn't endorse Archie when he first became delegate, I didn't know him from eve. When I saw that Ben endorsed him and that he was actually going to open up the borders to immigration I then endorsed him. The fact he was deleted really pissed me off becuase the only people he was ejecting were people trying to take over the region. He was the only one that truly opened the borders as well.
Now we have the opressive dictators.

I question your values towards America. You would like to have America be a guarded region closed to immigration and having daily regional alerts? Do you know how important immigration is to the US? If it wasn't for immigration the US would be a third world country now. You need to have fresh ideas injected into a society or it stagnates and dies.

You want my reply? Well then, here it is. I am sticking by what I've been saying. There will be democratic elections as there was no delegate before we arrived. True BF has the most endorsements aside from me, but as you should know, he was supported by the true region crashers. Farktopia. To be honest with you, I really don't like Ben, because of what I've heard from others in the past. At a time when the region was passworded so we could not help out. But on the other hand, we also didn't endorse any of the FA's delegate choices.... This is going to be as fair as possible, all natives considered, not just UN nations. Its what I've said before, I'm just reitterating it.

Alright, maybe we should abandon the off site forum idea. We can just vote in the region. Post on the regional board your votes and I will keep the tally going in the WFE. I will post the names of those who have voted so we know if they have voted or not. What do ya say?

The obvious problem is this.
If you include non-UN members as part of the voting you can't be sure that you don't have the same person voting twice..or more.

Ben is already delegate with the most number of endorsments, by 200%.

If we don't agree with your notion of allowing non-un members to vote (becuase it can't be verified that one person-one vote) then only UN members can vote and the situation is exactly how we currently have it.

If you say you will require the non-UN natives to vote and someone other than Ben comes out on top then you will have to get agreement from Bens supporters that your vote was fair
-OR-
Boot natives thereby griefing the region.

Friend Moderators, after reading just on this page, I honestly believe this has become a Griefing,

The ADN and Hrmmm invaded a helpless unprotected region with No Delegate as their previous was deleted, this region would have fallen to th control of Ben Franklin,

The ADN and Hrmmm then said that whn a Local Delegate was chosen by the natives, that they would relinquish the region to thm and immeaditly leave.

Now th region has aparently elected their Delegate as per the edict issued by the ADN, However aparently since the locals havnt chosen the delegate the ADN wants them to choose they wont leave the region.

Mods, Action must be taken, Perhaps you should appoint Ben the former Delegate as founder and let the natives handle the situation.

Friend Moderators, after reading just on this page, I honestly believe this has become a Griefing,
That's ridiculous. Even if we don't leave, which we will, it's only been a crashing, not a griefing.

The ADN and Hrmmm invaded a helpless unprotected region with No Delegate as their previous was deleted, this region would have fallen to th control of Ben Franklin,
We did enter a helpless, unprotected region with no delegate. And if we hadn't, the region probably would've fallen into the hands of Farktopia. Big difference.

The ADN and Hrmmm then said that whn a Local Delegate was chosen by the natives, that they would relinquish the region to thm and immeaditly leave.
All the votes are still not in...so why do you mandate we leave?

Now th region has aparently elected their Delegate as per the edict issued by the ADN, However aparently since the locals havnt chosen the delegate the ADN wants them to choose they wont leave the region.
You have no idea what are plans are. Don't talk as though you do. We will leave the region, sooner rather than later.

Mods, Action must be taken, Perhaps you should appoint Ben the former Delegate as founder and let the natives handle the situation.
Founder? All Ben did was open the door for the French to invade and....

I don't think Ben has proven competance, nor is the region large enough, based on recent rulings to grant a foundership. Ben can be delegate and that is fine with me, but he doesn't merit a granted foundership.

[Addendum to my previous post]

Aparently Hrmmm has booted a native who was leading in endorsements, and woudl rightfully assume teh delegacy,

Hrmmm is now a Griefer.

Invaders may not boot locals/natives as I recall.

[Addendum to my previous post]

Aparently Hrmmm has booted a native who was leading in endorsements, and woudl rightfully assume teh delegacy,

Hrmmm is now a Griefer.

Invaders may not boot locals/natives as I recall.
And when exactly did Hrmmm do this?

Even if he did, I read somewhere a ruling that 3 natives may be booted and as long as they are allowed back in, it is not a griefing.

Edit: Also...stop arguing with me and make my flag, darnit!!! (j/k) :wink:

[Addendum to my previous post]

Aparently Hrmmm has booted a native who was leading in endorsements, and woudl rightfully assume teh delegacy,

Hrmmm is now a Griefer.

Invaders may not boot locals/natives as I recall.
And when exactly did Hrmmm do this?

Even if he did, I read somewhere a ruling that 3 natives may be booted and as long as they are allowed back in, it is not a griefing.

Edit: Also...stop arguing with me and make my flag, darnit!!! (j/k) :wink:

flag assembly occures on Sundays

I was jokin' man, just kiddin' with ya. No hurries or worries with the flag.

You want my reply? Well then, here it is. I am sticking by what I've been saying. There will be democratic elections as there was no delegate before we arrived. True BF has the most endorsements aside from me, but as you should know, he was supported by the true region crashers. Farktopia.

I had no control over that and if what I've heard about them is true endorsing a native when they see that they can't take the delegacy is exactly the sort of thing that they would do to keep the chaos level at a maximum.

To be honest with you, I really don't like Ben, because of what I've heard from others in the past.

That's odd, Hrmmm. I really don't know you well enough to make that sort of judgement and I doubt you know me any better. Have I done anything that I should apologize for in the past few days or is this opinion entirely based on hearsay? I think if one thing is clear from the few days you've been visiting us it's that our internal politics is contentious enough that you shouldn't take what anyone tells you at face value. Myself included, for even when people are doing their best to be honest, their interpretations are colored by their emotions.

Hopefully, you can at least realize that you only have one side of the story.

Alright, maybe we should abandon the off site forum idea. We can just vote in the region. Post on the regional board your votes and I will keep the tally going in the WFE. I will post the names of those who have voted so we know if they have voted or not. What do ya say?

Well, it's been slow going getting people to sign up, but the discussion is underway. If we are voting via the regional board and including non-un members, how do we guarantee that individual players aren't voting multiple times? I'm open to suggestions, however it seems like anything other than a straight vote by UN natives is problematic.

[118 minutes ago] The Dazed and Confused Nation of Hrmmm
I would like everyone to know that Ben was ejected and unbanned to ensure that I remain the delegate during the election. What kind of election would give a canidate the position before the election had commenced? This is meerly temporary, but is necessary.

[94 minutes ago] The Republic of Teddy Roosevelt
Ah good. The griefing starts.

[6 minutes ago] The Xavier Institute of Das Nightcrawler
*bamf*

I may be a recent immigrant to this region, but it does not seem right. Ben Franklin vas the delegate before the invader Archi-vhatever, and Archi had just been deleted vhen "defenders" came and took the delegate position, ja? Vhy did they not just let Franklin reassume the delegate position after the next update?

And now Hrmmm has kicked out Ben, because his position as delegate vas threatened. This strikes me as griefing, ja?




* 2 hours ago: The Dazed and Confused Nation of Hrmmm removed The Self-Evident Truth of Benjamin Franklin from the regional ban list.
* 2 hours ago: The Self-Evident Truth of Benjamin Franklin departed this region for he Rejected Realms
* 2 hours ago: The Dazed and Confused Nation of Hrmmm ejected The Self-Evident Truth of Benjamin Franklin from the region.

See my post re: the mod ruling.

Also, Ben, even with the UN election, you can't be totally sure that nations aren't voting more than once. I'm suspicious of at least two nations in the US as being multis, and the Mods are looking into that.

HAHA, I knew they were really invaders. Time for you to come out of the closet kids.

Also, Ben, even with the UN election, you can't be totally sure that nations aren't voting more than once.

Granted, but at least then it will be kept to a minimum.

Just a quick update. Our "liberators" have been overthrown and ejected. We would like to thank them for their concern, but their services are no longer needed. The region is back in native hands.

Although I respect what you have done, you know it wasn't right. The reason I did eject Ben, was, as stated before, the election was not finalized, therefore no nation may take the delegacy and therefore win the election. It's like in the US, if they were to set the election date, and then give the presidency to a canidate half a month before the election date. That's real democratic...

Also, according to the NS rules. Any nation may be ejected as long as they are immediatly removed from the banned list.

The FPA was asked to help out in US before, but we could no get in because Ben had a password on the region. It was at the time when FS was allowed into the region.

I would expect no less an attituted than that from your invader group Hrmmm.
This situation is more like the United States I live in than the one your group was trying to force on us. In the United States I live in one has to register to vote before being allowed to vote. This is done to insure that one person equals one vote.
Your method allowed multiple votes per person. As I explained before, all UN nations had already cast theie vote and a delegate was elected. Your group decided that they were going to hold the region indefinitely as far as I can tell.
Your actions of last night show just how far your invader group was willing to go. You actually booted out the elected native delegate so that you could have "elections" under your flawed system.

This was a very interesting situation though. I imagine that this is much how a nation that is being held by a force that has superior numbers must feel. Being forced to do things that are ridiculous and out of the norm for that people and yet not being able to do much of anything about it. It would be nice if the world was more like this game whereby the invadee could eject the invaders and get things back to normal. Well...cest la' vie.

Although I respect what you have done, you know it wasn't right. The reason I did eject Ben, was, as stated before, the election was not finalized, therefore no nation may take the delegacy and therefore win the election. It's like in the US, if they were to set the election date, and then give the presidency to a canidate half a month before the election date. That's real democratic...

Well, we have a difference of opinion here. I've maintained all along that the delegate should be elected by the UN members, that's hardwired into the game and there's little we can do to change that and I was the overwhelming choise of the UN natives in the Region after you'd purged everyone except the natives and your occupying force.

Also, according to the NS rules. Any nation may be ejected as long as they are immediatly removed from the banned list.

I agree that your action was within the rules as I understand them. It was also enough, taken with the issue I raised in my telegram and some of your comments above enough to force me to act. And incidently, its any native that has to be immediately removed from the ban list.

The FPA was asked to help out in US before, but we could no get in because Ben had a password on the region. It was at the time when FS was allowed into the region.

I understand that that made a lot of people nervous, as did the admittance of an AA Ambassador. Clearly the help was not needed because neither of them were able to take over the region.

As I said before, I appreciate your noble intent and believe that you were trying to help. I hope you will stay with us on our NSUS board as an impartial observer to help insure that things stay above board and fair.

As I said before, I appreciate your noble intent and believe that you were trying to help. I hope you will stay with us on our NSUS board as an impartial observer to help insure that things stay above board and fair.
I'll hang around for a while. Just be aware that the defenders are watching you. Rumors have already been going around about what's going to happen next. Just don't let 'em come true and you may be on good terms with us. :wink:

You're in the FPA too. Now I get it. I knew there was a connection between you and Trekkers but I just couldn't put my finger on it. Thanks for clearing that up for me. Sure explains a lot.

You're in the FPA too. Now I get it. I knew there was a connection between you and Trekkers but I just couldn't put my finger on it. Thanks for clearing that up for me. Sure explains a lot.
And you're in Farktopia. Since you're standing up for Ben...that does a lot more to imply a connection much more Nefarious.

That's pretty much public knowledge. I've never claimed to be anything except an invader. In the case of Hrmm and the ADN, they claimed they weren't affiliated with Trekkers. In truth, Hrmm and Trekkers are both moderators of the FPA board.

As for my support of Ben, he didn't need my help to overthrow you. For all your bragging and big talk, it was hilarious to see you get owned by a small group of dedicated natives. Time to go back to invader school I guess. If you ever need some pointers, look me up.

That's pretty much public knowledge. I've never claimed to be anything except an invader. In the case of Hrmm and the ADN, they claimed they weren't affiliated with Trekkers. In truth, Hrmm and Trekkers are both moderators of the FPA board.

As for my support of Ben, he didn't need my help to overthrow you. For all your bragging and big talk, it was hilarious to see you get owned by a small group of dedicated natives. Time to go back to invader school I guess. If you ever need some pointers, look me up.
Alright, first, I find this post very disturbing...

One: You must look again, Trekkers has never been on the FPA forum, and we have no moderators on it. We only have our root admin. You may be referring to the PIN board, and no, OTP was a member on there, but has never been a moderator. You really need to know what you are talking about before you start talking.

Two: Getting owned isn't the phrasing I would have chosen. You just made it seem like you invaded your own region. We were not owned by anyone. Also, seeing as it is not our duty to occupy regions, we had many people leave and we still held the delegacy for a good 5-6 days. I think we are plenty good at what we do, so please refrain from the attacks on us. This is over, you have your region, so be quiet.

It's not my region. I don't even have a puppet there.

Moderators or not, the fact remains that you claimed to have no ties with Trekkers(OTP) but that's a complete fabrication.

The word "owned" is used when someone who claims to be superior gets totally outplayed by someone they consider a lesser player. It's use is appropriate in this situation.

Also Hello!

Moderators or not, the fact remains that you claimed to have no ties with Trekkers(OTP) but that's a complete fabrication.
Don't know when or who made that claim, but OTP did ask for assistance in the past. This was our only interatcion with him or anyone else in US to my knowledge.

You're in the FPA too. Now I get it. I knew there was a connection between you and Trekkers but I just couldn't put my finger on it. Thanks for clearing that up for me. Sure explains a lot.
And you're in Farktopia. Since you're standing up for Ben...that does a lot more to imply a connection much more Nefarious.

If you could not refer to the region I founded as Nefarious, that would be awesome.

If you honestly believe it is a "Nefarious" regon, you have spent no time there.

Feel free to drop by. I live by motto, and keep the region open, allow for open elections, and don't care who immigrates or visits. That said, Ain't no Nef- to Farktopia's -arious.

If you could not refer to the region I founded as Nefarious, that would be awesome.

If you honestly believe it is a "Nefarious" regon, you have spent no time there.

Feel free to drop by. I live by motto, and keep the region open, allow for open elections, and don't care who immigrates or visits. That said, Ain't no Nef- to Farktopia's -arious.
I'm not saying that the region is nefarious. I'm saying the connection is. A close but secret connection between the delegate of one region and the members of an invader region isn't a good thing for the region in question. I have respect for Farktopia in that they're one of the more competant invaders in the game. I'm not criticizing your election or immigration policies, either.

How can the Farktopians and Farkistanii be invaders they never leave their regions except to visit each other?

you are confusing me BC.

How can the Farktopians and Farkistanii be invaders they never leave their regions except to visit each other?
Because obviously they don't.... :wink:

Well...that was a fun 11 pages to read through...

It seems odd to me after som many people raised a fuss... I have been trying to do an interview with part of the natives and some of the denfenders from the region, and no one has returned any TMs. So, it was important to talk about it in the forums, but not that it is lost it is yesterday's news...