NationStates Jolt Archive

If you don't know what this is about, then you don't have to worry about it.

To clarify, each person, not each nation, will get one vote. At the conclusion a list of voters will be made public. However, since this is a secret vote, the individual answers will not be made public. The decision to reveal votes will rest with the individuals themselves. I'm sure if there is any debate about the results there will be no trouble getting the dissenters to say so. With the exception of Dr. Lafferty, few people would doubt my honesty in this I think. Had I really wanted to rig it, I could have limited the options or who could vote or any number of sneakier things than merely lying about the results. If you notice, I've not even stated an opinion and I will not participate in the actual voting. The results will be checked and rechecked and we'll bring in the Florida Board of Elections if necessary. That is all I will say on this subject. The rest of you can have at it in here. Here also will reside an unofficial forum poll.

(Shakes his head sadly) How easy would it be for me to flood this with votes for C. I don't even need to post a message explaining myself. Never mind that we've been working under the assumption of "B" forever. Never mind that we've had no real serious problems with "B" up to this point. And was the Florida board of elections crack really necessary? As a true Floridian, and a Palm Beach County citizen myself, I see nothing funny with the Supreme court limiting a recount called for by the state constitution. And if that's what you're trying to call into mind, a crooked election with the answer determined not by the votes but by the decision of a few select people... Well, I don't know what to say to that.

There is so much wrong with this, I could go on for days. It's obvious which vote you yourself are biased towards, and with you running the election itself... I don't think I need to put two and two together for most of LETI/LOTI.

Now let me come up with a nice compromise that gets you out of being a moron. I propose, as is my right as a nation to do, a limit on the payload, range and number of nuclear weapons available to nations which sign my treaty. Just like real life! (Which you seem to love Sam) This way, we hold true to the realizism that, well, tries to come out in this game. I will put my IC proposal out soon, with a link everywhere I can. In the meantime, I advise all to vote C, and keep petty dictators from ruining the game for us all.

Matt "Kelso"
Avatar of Manarth and many other nations in LOTI/LETI.

Well, I'm guessing you know where these nations voted

Eastern Detroit
Of the Council of Clan
The Celtois
---America

I'm voting for C.

Why, Because of the Real Life you so care about sam.


Nukes are achieveable technology. Simply stated.


Mutual Assured Destruction. Or MAD has kept the major powers from using them on each other for the last 50 odd years.


Yes people can create enough nuclear weapons to destroy the world. So thats why they don't get used. Also the existence of Nukes all through the region will prevent smaller countries from being invaded.

OOC: I think I'm going to officially abstain from this poll. Now for the ramble of logic:

It's pointless to ban nukes in LETI, because there's no other thing that we are completely taking out and nuclear weapons do, in fact, exist. However, there are some people that have been using said weapons like playthings instead of for their original intent. There's a reason nuclear weapons have not been used since WW2. I would like to think that civilized nations have taken precautions to ascertain that these weapons do not fall into the wrong hands so easily. However, there is nothing we can do about this. OR IS THERE?

A summary of nuclear activity in LETI (I apologize if some of this is wrong, Im' typing this 10 minutes before band so I don't have time to cross check these...)

1.) Crippleslovenia attacks CoC with 10 nukes. 3 hit, and it was cleaned by Resi/Edenstein/terrorists
2.) CoC attacked its former/soon to be renewed lands with several nukes. This was cleaned up by Resi and Edenstein
3.) Disgruntled Postal men shot 10,000 nukes at Sam, Ed, and me. By a freak of nature, they turned into petunias.
4.) CoC rebels fire 24 nukes a piece at Edenstein, HO, and CoC. Edenstein and HO utilize their new Defense programs. 1 hits Edenstein, 1 hits HO, and some hit CoC. Edenstein cleans up its own nation, Resi cleans up HO.
5.) CoC rebels fire at Manarth, Rialto, Counterpoint, Samsylvannia and other places. Nothing happens because most of the nations are inactive at the time.
6.) Manarth fires nukes at WPB and destroyed it completely.
7.) CoC fires nukes at Celtic War Lords and destroys it completely.
8.) CoC fires nukes at rebels along Kusa, destroying it completely.

The point is there have been some devastating attacks made by these WMDs, but because of good role-playing (or god-modding as some like to call it) the nations have survived. In my mind, banning nukes isn't going to solve things, good and creative role-playing can.

Kusa wasn't leveled.(it used nukes against CoC forces a long time ago)

Manarth never fired at West Palm Beach

CoC never shot at Samsylvannia

Kusa wasn't leveled.(it used nukes against CoC forces a long time ago)

Manarth never fired at West Palm Beach

CoC never shot at Samsylvannia

Ok, I figured there were going to be mistakes with the hurry I was in... Sorry

Once again I vote on the side of national sovreignity. I vote no, do not impose limits on nuclear arms in LETI!

Ok I lied I will say more, but just to clarify a few things.

The idea is not by any means to simply ban nuclear weapons in LETI. Something like that would require some kind of in character treaty agreement as Kelso has pointed out (BTW, when you get it done, Samsylvannia would be happy to sign up). My idea is to eliminate (or establish rules for in the case of the middle ground option) players using them on a regular basis, as has been the case of late. You could still RP out your own Cuban missile crisis or whatnot. I know it's not the same if at least the idea of the possibility of nuclear war doesn't exist, but it could still be a good RP if you're creative about it.

Don't get me wrong here, I don't want all the nukes in LETI to simply vanish, it's just that some of us get frustrated when they start getting lobbed around like tater tots in an elementary school cafeteria. At the rate we're going, there won't be much of LETI left before too long.

I'm still going to abstain from counting myself in the voting, but I'll tell you what my personal opinion is. I want an in-house rule that says if you want to start shooting nukes or sewing salt into the land or releasing flesh eating viruses that you clear it with the person you're shooting at first and not get pissed if they say "no." Either that or just agreeing not to do it at all.

Some regions have in-house rules banning profanity and name calling and the like (all of which also happen in real life). I guess in my way of thinking, survivable nuclear war is godmodding. As I've said repeatedly, I may be the miniority here. That's why I ask. If I am, so be it, we go on with our lives as if none of this ever happened. I don't want a few people ruining the game for the many. Likewise, if most of the players agree with me, I don't want the few who disagree ruining it for us. I'm not going to try to force rules and regulations on people here just because I happened to get here first, hence the entire idea of finding out what everyone thinks, hence the voting.

Speaking of which, I know a lot of people around here are questioning this whole procedure. So there is no misunderstanding, this is how it's going to work:

Votes are TGed to me. Wednesday next week they'll be counted by myself and counted independently by Steve. A list of voters will be posted at that time.

This will be a secret ballot. I've been in about 150 different organizations and been an officer in most of them and these sorts of things are ALWAYS done by secret ballot. The list of voters will go up in case there is any doubt as to the results. I'm sure that if there is some kind of a problem, enough people will come forward to clear it up. The forum poll is here only because Wayne wanted it. It has no official bearing, kind of like Gallup Polls.

As a point of procedure I'll remind everyone who didn't read carefully enough that the only votes being counted are telegrams sent to me. Wayne and Kelso, I've already recorded yours so this isn't directed at you. Just for future reference, I'm not going to comb the forums looking for stray votes. Except for the two I already mentioned, I won't count votes that aren't telegrammed to me.

By the way, petty dictators don't ask for opinions before they try to set up guidelines for RPing. If I didn't want your opinions, I wouldn't have asked for them. This thread was specifically started to create a discussion environment without cluttering up the regional forum. So if everyone could take a deep breath and calm down a bit it would be greatly appreciated. Please please please read everyone's posts thoroughly before flying off the handle about something that may be misunderstood.

For reference here are the choices (minus the sarcasm).

A. Role players interacting in the LETI Region may not launch, detonate, activate, or otherwise use nuclear weapons, as their use would ultimately result in the destruction of Earth, eliminating all role playing possibilities.
This does not prevent the existence, ownership, transport, or threats of use of these weapons.

B. Role players interacting in the LETI Region may only launch, detonate, activate, or otherwise use nuclear weapons with the consent of the player being attacked. This does not prevent the existence, ownership, transport, or threats of use of these weapons.

C. There will be no in-house role playing rules governing the use of nuclear or any other weapons in the LETI Region.

Sorry about the long post. Have a lovely day.

*tag*

http://www.nationstates.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=115468&start=0&postdays=0&postorder=asc&highlight=

Nuclear non-proliferation treaty is drafted and wating for criticism.

Here are the results of the voting.

A - 5 pts
B - 3 pts
C - 4pts

As far as I'm concerned the 5 people that took an interest aren't enough to do anything, so we won't make it an official rule. However, most people were in favor of eliminating or limiting them. Just keep this in mind the next time you start thinking about nuking someone.