NationStates Jolt Archive

I dont understand why my roomate's and I cant all be in the UN. The three of us have different views and vote differently on different issues. And all because you looked up my IP address and were all using the same IP?

Well first off I can spoof any IP you like, so thats a moot point, second off we wanted to do this TOGETHER! Ya know as a group. Thats the point of this for us. It was something we could all get together and do.

I spend all day on the computer anyway so I monitor the site, my other roomates are a bartender and a waitress, so they dont sit on the computer all day like I do.

I guess your going to limit anyone using the public library for internet access too then? I have more then one friend who goes to the library and does all there online stuff there. And since they all end up using the same computer once and a while they will all have the same IP.

The point of rules as I know them is to make it fair for everyone, how is it fair that we cant use the same features as everyone else?

That's just how it is I'm afraid. There's no way for us to prove that there are three people logging on to three different nations unless we install cameras and violate privacy laws.

It's unfortunate that we have other people who purposely create many nations, putting them all in the UN, in order to dominate. It's people like that, that ruin everything for other, honest people, but unfortunately, nothing can be done about that. But then again, can we honestly say that, if it were repealed, that no one would take advantage of it?

Yes, it's unfortunate, but unfortunately, there's always people like that.

It still pisses me off. That was half the reason for joining was the UN, and now we cant use it. One of my roomates just altogether quit because of it. She doesnt want anything to do with it after her nation was deleted with no warning.

Now my ISP uses DHCP, does that mean the next person who picks up my IP address is going to get kicked out of the UN too? Or if two people use the same computer at the public library that they are going to get kicked too?

Under your rules they would. In fact, you have a page about Nation States for educators. If youi have a class full of kids using the same computer does that mean that they also cant join?

Your asking people to break your own rules.

Yes the rules need to be more thought out.

Unfortunately, you all are just going to have to do. My fiance can't use her UN nation, and thus resigned, because once we went wireless, we're both on the same IP addy... so, it's just the way it is around here, unforutanetly, people cheat. That's life. And, yeah, it sucks we all have to deal with the consequences.

I got a fun idea, you 4 take a different side on a vote and have a death match to decide how that 1 vote goes!!!

Ok I'm good to go. *Pulls M-16 and M-60 out of garage*

Under your rules they would. In fact, you have a page about Nation States for educators. If youi have a class full of kids using the same computer does that mean that they also cant join?

Your asking people to break your own rules.

We have a different set up or structure in place for educators.

Stephanie
Game Moderator

Can't forget my trusty Robar SR-60 .308

ok, now I'm good to go.

Under your rules they would. In fact, you have a page about Nation States for educators. If youi have a class full of kids using the same computer does that mean that they also cant join?

The NS for Educators is a "different" game, so to say, from main NS game we all play. Thus, it is equipped to deal with a "class" full of UN members for educational purposes.

Playing this game for sport is not "educational" in respect to UN multis.

Well just tell me what IP you want me to have and I'll spoof it for you then. Then I wouldnt be breaking your rules.

Well just tell me what IP you want me to have and I'll spoof it for you then. Then I wouldnt be breaking your rules.

That's your choice, not the Moderation staff, but I wouldn't be advertising that if you are planning to do that anyway.

No, thats not what I want to do, nor do I plan to but its an easy way around your rules that ANYONE can do who wants to cheat. I dont want to cheat, I want to play.

No, thats not what I want to do, nor do I plan to but its an easy way around your rules that ANYONE can do who wants to cheat. I dont want to cheat, I want to play.

I guess that I shouldn't point out the number of people that we catch doing it despite IP-spoofing. Computers send a lot more information over the network than you might think. After all, every person who tries to cheat with a spoofed IP is just an easy target.

In addition to what Salusa has mentioned, I found this, here (http://www.iss.net/security_center/advice/Underground/Hacking/Methods/Technical/Spoofing/default.htm), that helped me understand the idea of "IP spoofing":

"Spoofing is the creation of TCP/IP packets using somebody else's IP address. Routers use the "destination IP" address in order to forward packets through the Internet, but ignore the "source IP" address. That address is only used by the destination machine when it responds back to the source."

In addition to what Salusa has mentioned, I found this, here (http://www.iss.net/security_center/advice/Underground/Hacking/Methods/Technical/Spoofing/default.htm), that helped me understand the idea of "IP spoofing":

"Spoofing is the creation of TCP/IP packets using somebody else's IP address. Routers use the "destination IP" address in order to forward packets through the Internet, but ignore the "source IP" address. That address is only used by the destination machine when it responds back to the source."

Ok if you want to get technical spoofing is not how someone would get around this anyway. But I could make my DNS rotate IP addresses as fast as I wanted, or I could just drop and refresh my ip address every time before I log in, simple enough. Even easier then spoofing.

By the way, the spoofing above is assuming someone else is using that address. Simply put I wouldnt want to be comming from someone else's computer, that would be stupid, and put me right back where I started.

My point is this, if I wanted to get around your unwritten rule (or at least I have yet to find a single place where it says two people cant log in from the same computer) I could.

Also, my account is still banned from the UN. Do yall mind removing the ban and or putting me back in the UN?

I guess that I shouldn't point out the number of people that we catch doing it despite IP-spoofing. Computers send a lot more information over the network than you might think. After all, every person who tries to cheat with a spoofed IP is just an easy target.

Yea, I've broke down the IP stack more then a few times. I'm the resident expert on SIP (session initiation protocol) which is used in Voice over IP. Which uses TCP and UDP, so I've broke down the stack at all the levels. I know exactly whats in a TCP packet

Here's what I do for a living.

http://www.gd-ais.com/sbu/IES.htm

The UN ban stays. We've already explained why.

(or at least I have yet to find a single place where it says two people cant log in from the same computer)

kind of explained here

http://forums2.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=274575

Having multiple UN nations from one computer is not against the rules, it just can very commonly create a false positive. There is no way for us to differentiate between false positives and real positives, and so we must enforce all as being genuine cheats.

And in regards to "spoofing", I knew what you meant. We catch people who do that too.

And in regards to "spoofing", I knew what you meant. We catch people who do that too.

Don't try to make yourself seem all knowing, all that does is make you look stupid when people do cheat.

Having multiple UN nations from one computer is not against the rules, it just can very commonly create a false positive. There is no way for us to differentiate between false positives and real positives, and so we must enforce all as being genuine cheats.


If its not against the rules how come I still cant join the UN? If I broke no rules, why am I being punished?

maybe because they have no way of knowing that you are telling the truth, you might, but they don't.

may i suggest a mod locks this thread sometime soon. it seems to be degenerating slightly.

my $0.02

If its not against the rules how come I still cant join the UN? If I broke no rules, why am I being punished?

I think everyone understands how you feel, but I don't think you're being disciminated against, it's just that if they laxed the rules for one person, it would annoy the hell out of people in the same position as you who haven't complained but just got on with their lives. Let's face it, if everyone could trust everyone else to be good people and not abuse the system - the world would be communist (by that I do mean TRUE communism). But they can't. You're just going to have to live with the fact that life isn't always fair.

You can join the UN with a new nation, but never the one that was ejected; just keep it to one UN nation per computer period.

Don't try to make yourself seem all knowing, all that does is make you look stupid when people do cheat.

Omniscience is what Salusa does. He's kind of the resident Nationstates technical demigod. :D

Don't try to make yourself seem all knowing, all that does is make you look stupid when people do cheat.

And trying to make yourself seem superior will only result in public humiliation when you are caught.

*is tempted to archive this for future reference*

may i suggest a mod locks this thread sometime soon. it seems to be degenerating slightly.

You know, you're right, I'm going to lock this thread now.

Joe Gas, your appeal is dismissed as being without merit. You managed to trigger every single anti-Multi check we have. Your claims to have knowledge of networking (which I won't deny) only further counter your claims of innocence (no, I won't go into how or why).

Further debate on this subject is closed.

http://www.nationstates.net/images/salusasecondus2.jpg
SalusaSecondus
Tech Modling -- Game Admin

P.S. If you feel like appealing this, I wouldn't recommend it as I am admin.

Archived for all others who'd dare challenge the modling to see!


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Myrth
Ruler of the Cosmos
Forum Moderator