NationStates Jolt Archive

From a British Flyer, circia 1941

12-09-2003, 09:23
Jerry's New Terror Weapon!

Members of Britain's intrepid SAA captured papers and materials revealing the existance of weapons being developed by Nazi leaders for use against the citizens of the Free World. The new weapon, classified as the "Type XV" by German weapons designers, is a new class of submarine armed not with torpedos or guns, but devistating rocket weapons intended to target Allied civilians. Commanders across the Alliance have thrown plans into motion to stop the newest Nazi super-weapon before it can be fully developed. But they can't do it alone. They need your support. Buy war bonds. Produce more aircraft and destroyers to hunt these despicable weapons to their ultimate end.
"V" For Victory!

OOC- Basically a somewhat enlarged Type IX U-boat mounting 8-12 V-3 guided rockets, a smaller version of the infamous V-2. While the destructive power of such a weapon is minimal, the propoganda value and damage to morale is significant. More on this as development continues. As a final note, I want to say that I'm not pulling this out of my hind-parts. The Germans made some studies of the practicality of launching rockets from submerged (that's right, submerged) U-boats against land targets, and actually got it to work; it was finally decided that the results weren't worth the effort and cost. I'm looking for some sites that can back this up; all I have right now is a book, "The German Navy in WWII" by Edward Von Der Porten, forwarded by Admiral Donitz. Wish me luck!
Walmington on Sea
12-09-2003, 09:33
Having second hand access to the British intelligence, many minds in the Walmingtonian Defence Ministry are inclined to believe that this is another case of Hitler's death-ray rants.
Understanding that false claim to have indirectly lead to the British inventing radar, some defence staff joke about what will be invented in response to this latest bluff, saying that Germany's propaganda will bury them soon enough.

ooc:I am vaguely aware of such experiments. I also half remember some notion that they might tow something behind a U-boat from which V-2s could be launched against New York and the like.
12-09-2003, 09:34
Next up is the Amerikabomber!
Walmington on Sea
12-09-2003, 09:38
[Draws a line with his finger across the Atlantic from the European mainland to the US's industrial, economic, political, and population heart in the north east of the nation. Uh oh..]
12-09-2003, 09:38
(And if I refuse to wish you luck? :P)

This latest crisis hardly made a dent in Ianapalis, as far from the actual fighting as it was. However, they - understanding rocketry perhaps a little better than their Walmingtonish friends - were inclined to believe the reports, if not the effectivness of the weapon.

(Iansislean rocketry is actually very advanced - we launched our Gurney I and II unmanned orbiters sometime back in late July / early August. For the purposes of this RP, however, we'll assume ourselves to be somewhat pre-Germany. Probably about equal in technological terms, but we've not yet turned it into a weapon.)
12-09-2003, 09:59
OOC- "Necessity is the mother-f**ker of invention." Or "Adversity breeds Innovation", if you prefer. If you're losing a war, take something you know and make it kill people. :roll:
Walmington on Sea
12-09-2003, 10:10
(sorry, this is a bit apart from the topic, but I'm hoping to catch Iansisle before he scoots off to bed or something- since WoS is going to be working from/with Iansisle jet tech early on.. are there basic MPAF-6/engine specs floating about somewhere? I'm sure I saw something just the other day! I keep finding references to the plane, but not the ones I want)
12-09-2003, 10:18
MPAF-6 "Colt"

Length: 36'6"
Heigth: 12'8"
Wingspan: 42'2"
Gross Weight: 15,950 lbs
Powerplant: 2 x Graye-Hudson Model 3G turbojets
Thrust: 1,966 lbs each
Range: 690 miles
Max Speed: 540 miles / hour
Ceiling: 38,750 feet
Armarment: 2 x .303 machine guns ; 2 x 20mm cannons
Armor: Medium

(assume this is what you're looking for?)
12-09-2003, 10:22
:shock: OMG, now it really DOES look like I stole your design! :shock:
Not as heavily armed as the 262, however....
Walmington on Sea
12-09-2003, 10:24
Ta muchly. I'm assuming it's okay for WoS to start early production on its jet programme now, since everyone else seems to have had no problem, and we did wait around for some time and have one attempt to get our hands on the tech thwarted by DK ;)
12-09-2003, 10:24
:shock: OMG, now it really DOES look like I stole your design! :shock:
Not as heavily armed as the 262, however....

(Heh, one reason I wasn't too sad to let the design fall into German hands.

I suppose I was willing to let you steal what I stole in the first place ;))

EDIT: Jet yourself out, Walmington. I'm assuming the first few waves of very travel-worn Iansislean squadrons are arriving in Walmington soon?
12-09-2003, 10:30
What route are those things flying? Not that I think my short-range Bf-109's would have much chance against them, but hey.... I'm bored.
Walmington on Sea
12-09-2003, 10:32
Walmington on Sea
12-09-2003, 10:32
(I believe so, yes. I'll just say we've timed the announcement of our jet prototypes to shortly follow the arrival of your jets in our skies. Presumably people will be feeling a bit taken aback and possibly in some way inferior until we do.
(I'm looking at a few different aircraft now trying to decide exactly what the first jet's going to be like. I'll get it posted some time to-day, no idea if it'll be in ten minutes or ten hours :) )
Probably jets will equip only a very few squadrons in WoS during the war. I'll save the main jet-age for my 50s tech period later.
Now I MUST eat.)
12-09-2003, 10:38
(they're heading west - across Asia, through the Walmingtonish Africa, then across from West Africa to Walmington with the help of external fuel tanks. The flight is mainly MPAF-5s, with a couple of -6s and BAF-1s mixed in. More because Tarriff felt guilty about not being able to help right away than for real military value. You're welcome to try to intercept them, but they'll be keeping as far away from the European coast as they can.

Oh, and I've never developed a naval version of the -6, in case you're wondering. The Salvador class operates MPAF-5N "SeaSteeds", TAF-2 "Seahorses", and BAF-2 "Dashers" (dive bombers)

Alas, I think I'm off to bed. I'll catch up on this after school tomorrow.)
Walmington on Sea
12-09-2003, 10:41
Toodle pip.
12-09-2003, 10:42
(Well, I'm on for just a couple more minutes - someone's asked me a rather curious question in that one party thread.)
Walmington on Sea
12-09-2003, 10:52
Yes, that was odd. I wonder who this newcomer is.
12-09-2003, 10:55
(seems to just be a case of mistaken identity. Well, I'm off - later, guys.)
12-09-2003, 11:03
Prime Minister Hirohito: Ha ha! We are most pleased to learn our vanglorious ally has come up with a new weapon!

Emperor Jun Le: <Undistinguished muttering>

Hirohito: No, sire. You can't leave the temple until all the 8000 rituals have been completed. Only 7999 to go!
12-09-2003, 12:28

Calarca has a fighter body, but no engine... once the first shells start flying around closer to home (i.e. Chiang Mai war) I suppose the Ians will be happy for my jets too.... I'll just haveta wait...

Anyhow I've IOC on the C-5 with the controllable pitch prop, a 24 plane squadron deploying to Sumatra.
12-09-2003, 12:29

Nah... try the suborbital bomber the Sanger brothers were working on.

Might ruin the RP a bit, though
Walmington on Sea
12-09-2003, 12:30
Hehe. With things hotting up in the Pacific, it's not unthinkable that before long WoS will be pressing for Calarca to receive jet tech (it'd be perhaps in bad faith for us to hand over the tech we're getting from Iansisle without their say so, I think). Hopefully co-operation in the Atlantic will lead to increased trust.
12-09-2003, 12:36
I hope so, i like the Yak-23 I've based it on, think of a Spitfire body with a jet engine in the nose exhausting under the cockpit, light, small and manuverable. and plenty of room abover the engine to fit 2 nose mounted 30mm cannon. plus 4 more 20mm in the wings....
Walmington on Sea
12-09-2003, 12:44
Crikey. Sounds nice.

I'm working on WoS's first jet now. . since no one's used the Meteor yet it looks like that makes sense for us.. I want a single engine affair, really, but since we're working from the Iansislian engines- with 1,966lb thrust, a single engine jet would not really be worth replacing piston fighters with. WoS has a history of not being able to get its engines quite as powerful as everyone else- we're terribly jealous of your high-speed cruisers and such- so it'll take a bit before we have our own single engine jet.

Heh, I'm rambling again.
12-09-2003, 12:51
OOC: Hmm... If you want, i can play around with MSPaint and line drawings, take the engines off the ME-262 Swan/MPAF-6 Colt, and glue them upside down on the top side of the wing of a Meteor (Thats the very first british Jet right?) and make a 3 engined jet. put 2x 20mm in each wing between the wing engine and the fuselage, and 2x 20mm each side of the nose intake as in the Sabre/Mig-15 for a total of 8x 20mm in a fast heavy jet with a heck of a bomb load. 6x 250 lb should be right.

Find me a meteor line drawing and post it and I'll email you the finished monster jet.
Walmington on Sea
12-09-2003, 13:36
Can't really turn down an idea like that, can I? :wink:

I suppose we can say that Calarcan experts were brought in to work on the project with WoS (presumably they're hovering about waiting for someone to drop jet tech) and as soon as Iansisle agrees to allow Calarca in on the technology..woo.
Your previously mentioned jet sounds good, but if Calarca wants to produce this model as well, I should think there'll be no problem.

Feel free to fiddle with a slight sweep or shaping of the wings, since we're presumably partially aware of the benefits, as displayed to a basic degree on the MPAF-6 (yeah, I'm struggling to imagine a Meteor with swept wings too, so it's not a priority- we can just incorporate that tech into our post war aircraft).

Britain's first active service jet fighter, and participant in the world's first jet-on-jet engagements, vs. Me262s.
12-09-2003, 15:26
Probably won't see many 262's untill 1943-44. I figure it's about March 1941 now.
12-09-2003, 15:33
hmm... well at the moment the Mad Magicians Meteor is finished drawing, just waiting for a TM from WoS with his email to send it for a Dekko.

WoS Check your TMs and TM Me.
12-09-2003, 16:47
(Just finished with a whopping four-and-a-half hours of sleep...I hate Fridays)

Another possibility, Walmington, is to shoot you that Graye-Henderson Model 7G turbojet engine producing 5,366 lbs of thrust that I have laying around for the MPAF-7 "Derby". 'Course, the reason the Derby's not slated to enter production for another year, and not mass production for another two is because that engine is so freakin' expensive, but, if you want it...
Walmington on Sea
12-09-2003, 17:40
Ah, sounds good for developing the later single engine efforts, I'd say. We'll certainly be interested, but there's less priority to be rushing now with this make-shift tri-engine affair. many three engine jet fighters can there ever have been? This is pioneering work!
12-09-2003, 23:01
Plane emailed. have a look WoS. Hope you like it.

It's also different and pioneering because it's got F-4 type underfuselage type exhausts, rather than the older F-86/Mig-15 right out the back end flow in the fuselage engine. theres a boom tail sticking out above, which means for the short engine, theres less weight of metal enclosing the intake duct and exhaust duct.
Tho thats hardly puioneering anyway, the Yak-23 does that too, but they didn't design (change) the rear fuselage to be an efficient jet plane fuselage, they just left the Yak-3 fuselage and added an undernose jet.

Anyhow, wait til WoS posted the pic after giving the OK.

It looks good, and I added all the 20-20 hindsight knowledge of fighter design from successful fighters up to the war. there were some funny things flying before the war, when competeing companies were tendering strange beasts for the airforse to use in the upcoming war.
12-09-2003, 23:18
(*jumps up and down like a little kid*

I wanna see it too! ;)

Well, Walmington had best post that thing, because I'm terribly interested to see what it looks like. And Calarca, I'd bet you just have to ask the government - or Henderson Rockets - to sell you jet engines, and they'd be happy to.

*continues to jump up and down*)
12-09-2003, 23:18
12-09-2003, 23:44
March 41?

Im march 47... with my MiG-15's. But they arent more advanced than the Derby.
12-09-2003, 23:56
13-09-2003, 00:04
(*jumps up and down like a little kid*

I wanna see it too! ;)

Well, Walmington had best post that thing, because I'm terribly interested to see what it looks like. And Calarca, I'd bet you just have to ask the government - or Henderson Rockets - to sell you jet engines, and they'd be happy to.

*continues to jump up and down*) Lol, Some design notes on aeroflyers.

Jets in the middle of the wings like on the Meteor, means the main spar either has to stop before the engine, attach to a fiddly cage surrounding the engine, and then attach the outer span of the wings to the other side of the cage. not very structually sound, this method has lead to the outer wings falling off in tight turns with some older piston engine type planes before this was known. or the Main spar passes before or behind the engine, as in the meteor, look into the black circle of the jet intakes of the unaltered pic WoS posted, see the white lines across the opening? thats the main spar, keeping the wings strong, but interupting the airflow. good strength, less power from the same engine. Then there is what the Me-262 did, attach the engine to the main spar, so it passes otherwhere than in front of the engine.
The problem with this is in a belly landing the Me-262 engines would dig in and pull the planes nose down into the ground instead of skidding along, result: dead pilots, and so even when a plane could be fixed if bellylanded, the pilots bailed out. total loss of plane, but saved pilot. Now if you fix the engine Above the wing, theres no such problem, it will belly land as a normal plane, so more pilots with minor engine problems will land them and they can be repaired and returned to service in less time than it requires to make a new one.

The wing slants downward in a reverse Dihedral, from the outer side of the engines, this provides a relatively unstable platform, just what fighters want, this plane will bank into turns far more rapidly than the orginal meteor with it;s positive dihedral ever did. Add to that a shorter lengthe overall, and a wider wingspan, this will turn and pull up far faster too. and with a double spar rather than a single spar (all that fits in front of the engine of the original), it is far more structurally sound and can take the tighter turns without stress... except maybe on the pilot.

All in all, even with what weight you gain in the third engine and altered wing & engine mounts, you lose from the fuselage too, so for a 60% increase in power (one more engine, half again the original, and cleaner airflow into the engine 5% each) you only have a 25% (Estimate) increase in weight. Even with such a heavy gunload.

A far more manuverable, heavily armed, and powerful beast than the Meteor. Enjoy it. I pity dem poor fools who try to cross this Mr T of the air. :wink:
Walmington on Sea
13-09-2003, 08:50
Ah, this was a better place to reply.. as I was saying elsewhere, I am impressed! And it seems the Ians are likely to share with Calarca now, so we have a nice aircraft in the making here!

I don't have anywhere to host images myself at the moment (I should do something about that, eh?) so, I don't suppose Iansisle has seen it yet? I can e-mail it on if that hasn't already been done?

(I'm especially liking the top view (from a purely aesthetic stand-point!).)
13-09-2003, 10:37

no host, ARRGHH!!! I hate AOL Hometown, but they were the first site that came up on hotbot back when I was first looking for free webhostign space. so there we go, I'm with them.

Info, Specs and a learned discorse of aerodynamics and insanity in designers is here ( getting on to the bottom.

From my comments and yarns I'll let WOS make the formal specification data.
Walmington on Sea
13-09-2003, 10:39
Isn't she scary?
Mind if I post the image in my armaments thread? I'm going to sort the details now.
13-09-2003, 10:42
I plead the 5th.
13-09-2003, 10:44
(If you need me to host images, I can give you my AIM or e-mail to shoot them over to.)

EDIT: Happy 4,000th post! Hooray! *throws one person party*
Walmington on Sea
13-09-2003, 10:44
And if someone should ask who you are?
13-09-2003, 10:44
*looks at his Macchi's trying to reassure himself. Then breaks out weeping. :cry: *

ooc: and on that note I am going to bed, or what I like to call Early Morning Nap, considering I have to get up in about 3 hours. Goodnight all.
13-09-2003, 10:53
13-09-2003, 10:54
Isn't she scary?
Mind if I post the image in my armaments thread? I'm going to sort the details now.

Feel free, it's not like my images on there use much bandwidth since they're only being shown on NS.