NationStates Jolt Archive


FYI: War, Diplomacy, Nuclear Weapons, and Economy-UPDATED

Automagfreek
26-07-2003, 04:33
~~~DIPLOMACY~~~
http://www.dexray.com/mission/img/handshake.jpg
Diplomacy is defined as:
1. The art or practice of conducting international relations, as in negotiating alliances, treaties, and agreements.
2. Tact and skill in dealing with people


WELL, WHAT DO YOU MEAN?

Diplomacy is dealing with people, plain and simple. Examples of diplomacy would be discussing alliances, compromising with nations, basically political discussions. Diplomacy is also an effective substitute for war. You can talk your way out of just about any situation, you just need to know how to do it properly. Political pressure on top of great reasoning and speaking skills, can put a cap on even the most volitile situation, you just need to be willing to do so.

ALRIGHT, WHEN DO I USE DIPLOMACY?

http://www.totalint.com/products/images/man_thumbs_up.jpg

All the time! Most of what you do on NS is diplomacy, but all too often, diplomacy goes right out the window. Here's an example:

Nation A: I just purchased 1,000 nukes, what are you going to do about it?

Nation B: I declare war on nation A for buying such weapons!

WRONG

Here's what should have happened.

Nation A: I just purchased 1,000 nukes, what are you going to do about it?

Nation B: Nothing, but we request that these weapons not be carelessly used. It is in the best interests of the world that weapons of this nature not be heedlessly tossed around. Thank you.

See? You get the point across without having to ship your troops out. Using the second example, nation A won't feel as if he's being backed into a corner, or forced to use such weapons. Again, diplomacy solves another problem.

WHEN DIPLOMACY BREAKS DOWN
http://i.timeinc.net/time/potw/20010608/riot.jpg

Face it, at some point, talk goes right out the window. BUT, that does not mean that diplomatic solutions cannot still be sought. A nation facing invasion may want to keep diplomatic options open. It is never too late for diplomacy, remember that. If things do break down and degenerate into war, refer to this thread for more advice. Everything about War (http://www.nationstates.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=53572)

WHY DIPLOMACY?

http://www.turkeyhill.com/images/question-mark.jpg

If you choose the pen over the sword, expect the following things to happen:

-Nations will have more respect for you.
-You avert a conflict that could lead to the death of thousands
-You make yourself look more professional, and not some war hungry fool
-Nations will be more willing to help you out if indeed you do get into a conflict.



~~~WAR~~~

We all know this is reason #1 for being on NationStates, admit it. War can be hours of fun: a conflict between two nations, trading blows, taking their losses, and one nation triumphing over another, with the victor getting the spoils and the bragging rights.

But....sadly, that's not what you see here nowadays. What you see it this:

Nation A: Steel for sale! High quality steel for sale, and cheap!

Nation B: I declare war on you. I want your steel.

Nation A: WHAT?!?!?!? You've got to be kidding me...

Nation C: Nation B has the support of the ACBDE Alliance, and all 317 members.

Nation A: This sucks, you're all wankers!

{insert flame war here}

That is the extent of war here on NS. Here are the main reasons for why you'd want to go to war in the first place.

GOOD REASONS FOR WAR

1. Attack on your nation/territory

Naturally, if somebody launches an invasion of your nation, by all means, go at it. If somebody launches a missile at you (for example), you may want to use diplomatic options first. Diplomatic pressure can solve almost any situation if you put real effort into it.

2. Attack on an ally

This is cause #1 for war on NS. Because of vast friendships on NS, war for this reason is very common. As an ally of a nation, you may feel obligated to defend them, and that is understandable. But you do not need to make all of your allies business your business. You have a nation to run as well, you can't alway rush off to protect your 4 dozen allies (or how ever many you have). But that's not to say you can't aid your allies. Sending weapons, ammo, money, equipment can be just as effective as sending your own soldiers. Perfect example: in WW2, the US knew Brittain and France were being threatened by Germany, but they refrained from just hopping in, until they were provoked into action. But before then, they sent aid to their allies. (DO NOT DISCUSS WW2 IN THIS THREAD, THAT WAS AN EXAMPLE)


3. Regional invasions

I've never had first hand experience with regional politics, so if anybody wants to contribute to this reason, feel free.

4. Human rights violations

The Amerigo Slave War is a textbook example of this reason. BUT, however, you don't need to attack somebody simply because their civil rights aren't as high as yours. Mass genocide, brutal enslavement, and other such things are grounds for war, but AFTER diplomacy has run it's course.


5. WMD possession

This reason is slightly exaggerated. A nation has the right to possess WMD, and use it when neccessary. BUT, if they go around gassing neighbor nations for giggles, then there may be a problem (but again, DIPLOMACY FIRST). Simply possessing WMD is not sufficiant grounds for war, but abuse may be, each situation is unique.


BAD REASONS FOR WAR

1. He insulted me

So what? If you rush off to war for this reason, you need to grow a thicker skin. As absurd as it seems, I've seen war erupt for this reason. Insults happen, don't take it personally. Remember "sticks and stones"?

2. I want his land

Being imperialistic is generally frowned upon. Unless justified and well RPed, simply "wanting" somebody else's territory will generally land you in the Smackdown Hotel. Imperialism may also be viewed as warmongering.

Warmongering: One who advocates or attempts to stir up war.

3. My ally is going to war

Good for him, but unless it directly involves you, don't. Remember, you have a nation to look after as well, you can't constantly bend to the will of an ally. His reasons for war may be legit, but that dosen't mean you need to butt in and dogpile some nation he's fighting against.

4. I feel like it, because I'm bored

Again, generally considered idiodic, and warmongering. UNLESS of couse it's a couple of friends RPing out a conflict for fun, in which case, you shouldn't interfere.

5. I want to rule teh world!!!1111Shift+1 :twisted:
For one thing, you can't. NationStates has over 70,000 nations. Do you think your military, even your ENTIRE population for that matter, can conquer that many people? Also, you can't declare war on the forum or the UN, sorry.

6. He said my mom was fat

NEVER, EVER DECLARE WAR FOR OOC (out of character) REASONS!!! I don't care if your friend was being a jerk at school, that's not a good reason to declare war, forget about it.

OPTIONS IN PLACE OF WAR

Instead of rushing off to battle like some trigger happy cowboy, try to following:

1. Diplomacy: The art or practice of conducting international relations, as in negotiating alliances, treaties, and agreements... Tact and skill in dealing with people.
2. Compromise: (I'll back down if you will)
3. Sanctions: Authoritative permission or approval that makes a course of action valid (If you launch another nuke, there will be problems)
4. Compliance: (Alright, I'll cut back on my VX, just don't attack me)
5. Threat of force: (Look, if you invade, the ABCDE Alliance will step in. )
Threat of force has averted many a war, I should know because I too use this tactic.
6. Sever all ties with the nation (You know what, I'm not trading nor interacting with your naton again. Good Day.)

ALLIANCES

Alliances are all well and fine, but the line has to be drawn somewhere. Every single day, more alliances spring up, most are for war related purposes. Having alliances is fine, but DO NOT use that as an excuse to push around others that are not as large as you. Doing so will make your alliance look like a schoolyard bully, instigating any conflict they can. This is not a good way to make a respcetable name for yourselves. Alliances are fine, BUT do not use that alliance to A) Butt into wars B) Instigate wars simply because you have a few dozen powerful nations in it C) Force your will upon others, because that always leads to conflict.


ONGOING CONFLICTS

If 2 nations are at war, and they are RPing it well, LEAVE IT ALONE. Don't muscle your way into it because you want to join in the fun. It's their RP, don't ruin it. Most people fail to realize the RP value that exists in war. Those old enough to remember the Amerigo War, the AMF civil war, etc. know that through war, great RP can come. DON'T TAKE A GOOD WAR RP AND RUIN IT.


CONSEQUENCES OF WAR

War can have serious consequence, which is generally ignored on NS. Every time you ship out, you make yourself more vulnerable to attack. If you fight frequently, your troops are going to get tired, and disgruntled. If your economy is bad, it's probably going to get worse, likewise if it is good. Your industry is going to suffer, seeing as during wartime, production shifts to war related items, IE guns, tanks, etc. Face it, setbacks do happen. I don't care if you're the most powerful nation around, if you ship out once a day, your nation is going down the gutter.
War also effects your performance. Fighting a nation that's larger, better equiped, more experienced, etc, may effect your troops morale. Also, remember that defendes tend to fight harder, for it is their homes they are fighting for. Also, remember that supplies are critical. You don't honestly, think your tanks can drive without gas? Can your troops shoot without ammo? Can your trucks drive with no tires? ALOT of people forget about these things, but you need to rememeber that supplies are critical, and if your supply lines are attacked, then your troops will be in trouble.

Also, war can have diplomatic consequences as well. Some nations may frown upon your for frequently choosing the sword over the pen. Expect this to happen if you go off to war frequently.


HOW TO GO TO WAR

For you new nations, you may be asking this question. The best advice I can give, is to read The Role-Playing FAQ (http://www.nationstates.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=2133). It goes into great detail about how to RP war.
Also, you way want to read FYI: What GODMODDING is (http://www.nationstates.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=15957). You need to understand what godmodding is, and how you can avoid it.

EXAMPLES OF WELL RP'ED WAR

The AMF Civil War (http://www.nationstates.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=32835)
Amerigo Slave War (http://www.nationstates.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=30536&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0)



~~~NUCLEAR WEAPONS~~~



Due to general ignorance about these feared and extremely deadly weapons, I am going to inform you of just what happens when a nuclear device explodes.


http://www.hereontheweb.com/current/nuke.gif

Blast

Most damage to cities from large weapons comes from the explosive blast. The blast drives away air from the site of the explosion, producing sudden changes in air pressure (called static overpressure) that can crush objects, and high winds (called dynamic pressure) that can move them suddenly or knock them down. In general, large buildings are destroyed by the overpressure, while people and objects such as trees and utility poles are destoyed by the wind.

Direct Nuclear Radiation

Nuclear weapons inflict ionizing radiation on people, animals, and plants in two different ways. Direct radiation occurs at the time of the explosion; it can be very intense, but its range is Iimited. Fallout radiation is received from particles that are made radioactive by the effects of the explosion, and subsequently distributed at varying distances from the site of the blast. Fallout is discussed in a subsequent sect ion. For large nuclear weapons, the range of intense direct radiation is less than the range of lethal blast and thermal radiation effects. However, in the case of smaller weapons, direct radiation may be the lethal effect with the greatest range. Direct radiation did substantial damage to the residents of Hiroshima and Nagasaki.

Thermal Radiation

Approximately 35 percent of the energy from a nuclear explosion is an intense burst of thermal radiation, i.e., heat. The effects are roughly analogous to the effect of a 2-second flash from an enormous sunlamp. Since the thermal radiation travels at the speed of light (actually a bit slower, since it is deflected by particles in the atmosphere), the flash of light and heat precedes the blast wave by several seconds, just as lightning is seen before the thunder is heard.

Electromagnetic Pulse

Electromagnetic pulse (EMP) is an electromagnetic wave similar to radio waves, which results from secondary reactions occurring when the nuclear gamma radiation is absorbed in the air or ground. It differs from the usual radio waves in two important ways. First, it creates much higher electric field strengths. Whereas a radio signal might produce a thousandth of a volt or less in a receiving antenna, an EMP pulse might produce thousands of volts. Secondly, it is a single pulse of energy that disappears completely in a small fraction of a second. In this sense, it is rather similar to the electrical signal from lightning, but the rise in voltage is typically a hundred times faster. This means that most equipment designed to protect electrical facilities from lightning works too slowly to be effective against EMP.

Fallout

While any nuclear explosion in the atmosphere produces some fallout, the fallout is far greater if the burst is on the surface, or at least low enough for the fireball to touch the ground. The fallout from air bursts alone poses long-term health hazards, but they are trivial compared to the other consequences of a nuclear attack. The significant hazards come from particles scooped up from the ground and irradiated by the nuclear explosion.


NUCLEAR BLAST RADIUS

This is what would happe if a nuke exploded on a city.
http://www.pacificgrove.com/localnew/nuclearblastpg.jpg

12 psi
(pounds per square inch)
Radius of blast: 1.7 miles
Population after blast: 0

At the center of the ring lies a crater 200 feet deep and 1000 feet in diameter. The rim of this crater is 1,000 feet wide and is composed of highly radioactive soil and debris. Nothing recognizable remains within about 3,200 feet (0.6 miles) from the center.


5 psi
Radius of blast: 2.7 miles
Population after blast: 0

Virtually everything is destroyed between the 12 and 5 psi rings. The walls of typical multi-story buildings, including apartment buildings, have been completely blown out & the owners ask for a rent raise anyway.


2 psi
Radius of blast: 4.7 miles
Population after blast: 10%

Any single-family residences that have not been
completely destroyed are heavily damaged. The
windows of office buildings have been blown away, as
have some of their walls. Everything on these buildings'
upper floors, including the people who were working
there, are thrown onto the streets.


1 psi
Radius of blast: 7.4 miles Population after blast: 35%

Residences are moderately damaged. Commercial buildings have sustained minimal damage. Twenty-five percent of the population between the 2 and 1 psi rings have been injured, mainly by flying concrete, debris & sewage.


As you see, this is just the effects of 1 nuclear bomb going off. Now, try to imagine a few thousand going off. Even though NS earth is larger than Jupiter, the world would be screwed if some of the "thousand nuke" launches really happen. The environment will change, and with the amount of particles thrown into the air, life as we know it would be endangered. Also, if you think that detonating this many weapons won't effect those that are innocent, think again. Jet streams can blow radioactive particles into other nations, who may not have been involved. PLEASE, FOR THE LOVE OF GOD, THINK BEFORE YOU LAUNCH.


ECONOMY

There seems to be alot of confusion surrounding economy, and what exactly economical level means, so here's the lo-down:

Imploded
Basket Case
Weak
Struggling
Fragile

These economic levels are at the bottom of the bucket. At these levels, your #1 priority should be improving your economic level, and feeding your people and keeping your nation from falling apart internally should be the most important thing on your agenda. At this point, building up your military, making significant purchases, and other things should be put on the back burner. Real life examples of nations with these economic levels are Somalia, and other 3rd world nations.


Fair
Reasonable
Developing
Good

This economic level is better, but still far from best. Again, you should try and focus on getting your economy up, and try not to waste your precious money on commodities. Not to say that you can't start building a military, but remember, nations that devote all of their funds to the military will surely be doomed. I don't think starving people would appreciate M1A2's instead of food. Applying for aid can help your nation RP wise, but it won't increase your nation stats sadly.


Very Good
Strong
Very Strong
Thriving

Now you're starting to become a contender! You now have a stable economy, and you can start freely building a military, or researching, or anything you'd like. Again, your conomy is not the best, but you can more than handle your own now. Your production is in full swing, and your nation is close to the real life United States.


Powerhouse
All consuming

These economic levels surpass the real life United States. Your economy is dominate, and you can afford alot of the "toys" that nations of weaker economies can't afford. Most nations with these economies start space programs, weapons stores, and tend to be the ones giving aid to the economically smaller natons!


Frightening

This is THE best economy in the game. A Frightening economy would put the US's to shame. Frightening basically means that your economy is so good, that others are intimidated and are in awe of your production capabilities. At this level, you have cash pouring out of your ears, but spend it wisely, even Frightening nations can run out of money if it's spent foolishly.


In conclusion, try to make decisons based on your economic rating. Basket Case nations shouldn't be starting nuclear programs, so please, use your head. These is also a GDP calculator out there, and I'll post a link once I find it.



(If anybody has any input, let me know, I may have missed a few things. )
Automagfreek
26-07-2003, 04:42
Bump, this should be a sticky.


(No, I'm not gloating, people need to learn.)
26-07-2003, 04:46
a well rped war is my own.... come on
Automagfreek
26-07-2003, 04:46
a well rped war is my own.... come on

Read it, then you'll see. :roll:

You have no idea that what a true war is until you do.


What I'd like to see in the wars on NationStates is a bit more of a reward for clever roleplay. This was one thing that really came into play in the Automagfreek Civil War, an excellent (and highly overlooked) RP. The war was won not by marching millions of troops into Automagfreek, but by appealing to the masses via propaganda and speech. That's how to win a war without firing a shot, kids.
TJHairball
26-07-2003, 04:47
Not all of the Amerigan War was done perfectly, but it remains one of the best wars seen in 2003 on NationStates, diplomatically and otherwise.

-The conflict began with sharp IC debate, trade difficulties, and a blockade.

-Slowly tensions rose. Eventually, war broke out around Amerigo; however, not all nations involved deployed immense forces, nor were all willing to engage in a full scale conflict militarily.

-Eventually, after some very heavy fighting and diplomatic chaos, peace broke out, with all sides leaving the table at least partially satisfied ICly - at least, on the surface. A single 1 KT nuke was detonated during this war, and at the time, it was a big deal. Not like now, when everybody is so warmongeringly happy and is convinced that they can both survive a nuclear apocalypse and inflict one.
Automagfreek
26-07-2003, 04:53
No kidding TJ.

War on NS has taken a sharp decline, and it's very sad.
26-07-2003, 04:55
me and volonia had a good war rp a while back
Copiosa Scotia
26-07-2003, 05:00
The AMF civil war was well done. The common thread in all good wars is that people don't really care about winning or losing so much as making the story interesting. Contrary to popular belief, the good war RPs are not competitive, they are cooperative, at least to some degree.

AMF, may I suggest that you add the NATO - N0rth Korea war to the list? That one is turning out very well.
Sambizie
26-07-2003, 05:01
This should be a sticky.

Agreed, it should be.
Automagfreek
26-07-2003, 05:01
Got a link?
Automagfreek
26-07-2003, 05:53
Bump
Copiosa Scotia
26-07-2003, 06:41
Ask, and ye shall receive. I was briefly involved in this one, but my busy schedule has kind of forced me into inaction.

http://www.nationstates.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=50249
Automagfreek
26-07-2003, 08:04
Alright, I'll get to reading it later.
26-07-2003, 08:34
this is a great thread and a good read i hope it improves wars in NS
Automagfreek
26-07-2003, 09:26
this is a great thread and a good read i hope it improves wars in NS

Thanks, but I know it won't make much difference.
26-07-2003, 09:30
If only it did its atleast made a difference to way im going to do things even tho im all for conflicts i shall try to use diplomacy who knows it might not work and i could get a war but least i tried
Automagfreek
27-07-2003, 20:44
Bump


I added a segment about nuclear weapons.
Automagfreek
28-07-2003, 03:00
Poke
Bonstock
28-07-2003, 03:14
One question. Is blockading a country diplomacy or an offensive action. I did this to one three week old country for selling nukes, thinking it was good diplomacy not to rush off to war, but many nations interpretted it as an offensive action and threatened war. Should I have done more negociating beforehand, or was my blockade justified, considering the nations was less then a month old and exporting nuclear weapons?
Automagfreek
28-07-2003, 03:29
Blockading is generally considered an aggressive act, as it implies cutting off the nations incoming supplies, and entails inability for them to use their ports, etc.
30-07-2003, 19:51
:o STICKY-STICKY-STICKY-STICKY-STICKY-STICKY!!!! :o
30-07-2003, 20:04
BUMP - MUST BE STICKY - BUMP :x
Omz222
30-07-2003, 20:06
BUMP - MUST BE STICKY - BUMP :x
Wait for the mods, they have a life ;P
30-07-2003, 20:10
GOod job AMF, this should be stickied. The nuclear facts were interesting, and should be read by all nuclear carpet bombers.
Wolfish
30-07-2003, 20:15
AMF - again, great job.

Another reason for war, though, is treaty violations (think post WW1 Germany).

This is typically a great opportunity to negotiate - but may result in a: aggression by the party hindered by a previous treaty or b: aggression by the person responsible to keep the treaty in place.

Currently Bonstock and Peds are in this position.
30-07-2003, 20:21
1st, BUMP for sticky.. :)

Another thing, I wholeheartedly agree.. I like to think that my pseudo civil war (http://www.nationstates.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=46072&highlight=) was an example of a decent RP, which had good diplomatic elements, didn't involve millions of teleported troops, and actually seemed to tell a story.

I can't stand when nations throw around the nuke thing too much, but it seems like more nations are coming around to RPing realistically. Personally, I think it's a whole lot more fun than just saying "I nuke you, there goes 200 million people"...

There sure is a lot to be said for good diplomatic RP!
_Kish
30-07-2003, 20:29
How do I sue for peace?
Automagfreek
30-07-2003, 20:50
Thanks all! ^_^

BTW, treaty violations are grounds for harsh sanctions, embargos, blockades, and then eventaully war.

The key to one day becoming a diplomatic superpower like The SLAGLands is to exhaust all diplomatic options before mobilizing.
Automagfreek
03-08-2003, 22:07
A well needed bump.
Trailers
03-08-2003, 22:08
Siiiiiiing theeeeeeeeee sticky sticky sticky sticky sticky sticky song!sticky sticky sticky sticky sticky sticky song!sticky sticky sticky sticky sticky sticky song!sticky sticky sticky sticky sticky sticky song!sticky sticky sticky sticky sticky sticky song!sticky sticky sticky sticky sticky sticky song!sticky sticky sticky sticky sticky sticky song!sticky sticky sticky sticky sticky sticky song!sticky sticky sticky sticky sticky sticky song!sticky sticky sticky sticky sticky sticky song!sticky sticky sticky sticky sticky sticky song!sticky sticky sticky sticky sticky sticky song!sticky sticky sticky sticky sticky sticky song!
Automagfreek
03-08-2003, 22:40
Nice song! :)
Commerce Heights
04-08-2003, 00:06
Question about nuclear weapons:

If a nation is threatening to use nuclear weapons against any nation which attacks it, is it reasonable to:

a) claim that the nation using the nukes would be adversely affected by fallout (the nation is in the same region)
b) ignore the nuclear attacks if they occur, since there was no reason to use nuclear force
c) ignore the nation entirely for making such a threat without any RPed reason for doing so
d) threaten to nuke that nation's capital in retaliation (only if the other nation attacks first)
e) if the nukes are not owned by that nation, threaten to nuke the capital of the nation that owns the nukes if they are launched
f) if the nation with the nukes is a puppet and the nukes were provided by the main nation, threaten to nuke the capital of the main nation in retaliation (if their threat is carried out)

[This situation is a simplified version of an actual situation that CH is currently involved in (outside of the NS forums), though the intial threat by the other nation involved almost no RPing.]
Automagfreek
04-08-2003, 22:41
Question about nuclear weapons:

If a nation is threatening to use nuclear weapons against any nation which attacks it, is it reasonable to:

a) claim that the nation using the nukes would be adversely affected by fallout (the nation is in the same region)
b) ignore the nuclear attacks if they occur, since there was no reason to use nuclear force
c) ignore the nation entirely for making such a threat without any RPed reason for doing so
d) threaten to nuke that nation's capital in retaliation (only if the other nation attacks first)
e) if the nukes are not owned by that nation, threaten to nuke the capital of the nation that owns the nukes if they are launched
f) if the nation with the nukes is a puppet and the nukes were provided by the main nation, threaten to nuke the capital of the main nation in retaliation (if their threat is carried out)


1. Yes
2. Depends on the RP situation
3. Up to you
4. Might work, but might make things worse
5. That could lead to problems
6. Yes, using puppet nations to do your dirty work is low
Automagfreek
07-08-2003, 23:44
Kick
Automagfreek
08-08-2003, 21:23
Poke
08-08-2003, 21:31
---Post deleted by NationStates Moderators---
Automagfreek
08-08-2003, 21:52
Nice thread, but I do not see sticky. There are already too many up there. Maybe if we got rid of those stock exchanges that are pretty useless, we could post this as a sticky. Otherwise, a good spot in the Nanakaland sticky on the NS forum...

Yeah, the current sticky's in I.I are pretty useless.
Automagfreek
22-08-2003, 15:43
Kick
Domo Kuns
22-08-2003, 16:17
:!:
Automagfreek
22-08-2003, 16:20
:!:

Ummm...ok.....
Clan Smoke Jaguar
22-08-2003, 16:53
Very good information here. There's just one thing I see missing.
For your nuclear example, it would be a good idea to list the yeild of the weapon being described. A nuclear weapon can have an explosive yeild of anywhere from 1 kiloton to over 30 megatons (30,000 kilotons), and weapons up to 100 megatons have been conceived. As such, there can be a HUGE difference in the size of the blast from two different weapons.
Automagfreek
22-08-2003, 18:16
I believe somewhere on page 2 (I think) there is a rough estimate of what size the nuke is.
Bodies Without Organs
22-08-2003, 18:32
Following the recent nuclear attack on a peace conference in the nation of BWO I found this handy link for quick and easy assessment of nuclear attacks - a calculator which when fed with warhead size will spit out appropriate ranges for various kinds of effects:

http://www.stardestroyer.net/Empire/Science/Nuke.html


Also, my nation operates with mainly 1960s/70s technology, and I was surprised to find that the electronic systems in our frankly outdated, but elegant, WWII era Catalinas would not be overly effected by EMP, as they were based on valve technology. Similarly some Soviet planes would continue to operate as they too were built with valves where the decadent west would have used integrated circuits and semi-conductors...
Automagfreek
26-08-2003, 23:36
Bump
Automagfreek
26-08-2003, 23:49
Another bump so the newbies can see.
27-08-2003, 00:01
This is good stuff, I'll reccomend reading it to all of my friends.
Automagfreek
27-08-2003, 00:04
Thanks, I just hope newbies learn something from it.
Vi2o
27-08-2003, 00:10
since that DVi2o was deleted (i dont know y , really) i will follow my own footsteps and:

S-uper
T-ubular
I-ntelligent
C-unning
K-icks azz
Y-es for AF and this great thread

ok, its done than- its still stupid but once again...i had to get it across :lol:
Automagfreek
27-08-2003, 00:14
:lol:

LOL
Automagfreek
27-08-2003, 00:24
Hmmm.....T could be Tubular (even though that word is ghey :wink: ) , and I could be Intelligent.

:lol:
Automagfreek
27-08-2003, 00:44
AN ECONOMY SEGMENT HAS BEEN ADDED.
27-08-2003, 00:49
*chants* Sti-cky!sti-cky!sti-cky!
Automagfreek
27-08-2003, 00:51
If someone could make a thread in the Moderation forum requesting a sticky for this thread, I'd appreciate it. I would do it myself, but it would seem like self promotion, and I probably wouldn't get the sticky then.
Automagfreek
27-08-2003, 01:00
Heh, thanks Cirdanistan!

http://www.nationstates.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=65842
Goobergunchia
27-08-2003, 01:13
This deserves a sticky, and it probably deserves trade benefits as well.
Automagfreek
27-08-2003, 01:18
At most, it'll probably be added to the NS "View These Great Threads!" list.
Sketch
27-08-2003, 05:50
w00t Auto! Talk about a well written post. Ought to be stickied, and I have never said that before. Carry on and keep up the good work.
Automagfreek
27-08-2003, 06:35
w00t Auto! Talk about a well written post. Ought to be stickied, and I have never said that before. Carry on and keep up the good work.

Thanks much!

SLAG's going to add it to the "View These Great Threads!" thread.
Chellis
27-08-2003, 06:44
all this "sticky" talk has gotten me hot O.o
The SLAGLands
27-08-2003, 06:55
Added to the stickied thread.
Automagfreek
27-08-2003, 06:55
Added to the stickied thread.

Woot Woot!!!! :D
27-08-2003, 06:56
what really ges me ticked is that some people who bashed me when i ignored Xerlox are actually praising this thread *glares at Omz* i'd suggest those people actually apply the principles they praise :roll:
P.S. Omz22, i want an essay on the "rules" Xerlox broke when he declared on me :P if you need help just read AMFs sections on diplomacy and war and compare with what Xerlox did.I'm sure you'll be "surpised" to fidn out he acted in the exact opposite way from what a good Rper should do.Maybe it's time you recognized that time in the game means nothing, and Xerlox is an utter nOOb :roll:
imported_Ell
27-08-2003, 07:03
Regarding the nuke, I read somewhere that a 100-megaton nuke set off over London would cause all the forests in the UK to spontaneously ignite.
Automagfreek
27-08-2003, 07:06
Regarding the nuke, I read somewhere that a 100-megaton nuke set off over London would cause all the forests in the UK to spontaneously ignite.


That's a pretty friggin large nuke. :shock:
27-08-2003, 07:06
[sorry about my post above, i just had to get back at Omz for starting the "let's flame Cird" fest]
imported_Ell
27-08-2003, 07:07
The biggest nuke in RL (yes, that 100 megaton thing was derived from simulations) was tested by Russians in the 60s. That was 65 megatons!
27-08-2003, 07:08
Regarding the nuke, I read somewhere that a 100-megaton nuke set off over London would cause all the forests in the UK to spontaneously ignite.


That's a pretty friggin large nuke. :shock:
the enitre US arsenal comes to about 25 Gigatons, and it contains around eight thousand nukes, so i'm rather inclined to agree with you
EDIT: not including the smaller tactical warheads designed to be launched by mobile vehicles, but they only yield between 1 and 20 kilotons mostly.
Omz222
27-08-2003, 07:10
what really ges me ticked is that some people who bashed me when i ignored Xerlox are actually praising this thread *glares at Omz* i'd suggest those people actually apply the principles they praise :roll:
P.S. Omz22, i want an essay on the "rules" Xerlox broke when he declared on me :P if you need help just read AMFs sections on diplomacy and war and compare with what Xerlox did.I'm sure you'll be "surpised" to fidn out he acted in the exact opposite way from what a good Rper should do.Maybe it's time you recognized that time in the game means nothing, and Xerlox is an utter nOOb :roll:

[sorry about my post above, i just had to get back at Omz for starting the "let's flame Cird" fest]

1. I didn't sart a flame fest
2. I didn't say Xerlox is a good RPer, but nor did I "praised him"
27-08-2003, 07:16
maybe you should read my posts before replying ,Omz.Maybe that's an intelligent idea, eh?i never said you prasied him;You praised AMF's post although you said

You know it's pretty low to ignore someone because they can kick your ass?
when i had clearly stated several reasons for my ignore which-surprise,surprise- happen to be what actions of Xerlox's which AMF(and you, by endorsement)'s post condemns generally.Hypocrisy or what?
EDIT:and yours was the first bashing post of a flame-fest, so yes you did start it all off.I won't argue this further, but i strongly recommend you cut the hypocrisy.
Omz222
27-08-2003, 07:19
maybe you should read my posts before replying ,Omz.Maybe that's an intelligent idea, eh?i never said you prasied him;You praised AMF's post although you said

You know it's pretty low to ignore someone because they can kick your ass?
when i had clearly stated several reasons for my ignore which-surprise,surprise- happen to be what actions of Xerlox's which AMF(and you, by endorsement)'s post condemns generally.Hypocrisy or what?

Yes, Xerlox's RP is somehow below normal--the term I will use, but first of all you didn't ignore him for the extremely bad RP, you just... ignored him. If you stated the puprose of ignoring him, I may understand you and not assume that you ignore him because you chickened out.

EDIT:and yours was the first bashing post of a flame-fest, so yes you did start it all off.I won't argue this further, but i strongly recommend you cut the hypocrisy.

The truth is that the post I posted was not intended to be a flame. Period.

If you don't listen, fine---have it your way. I don't care.
Automagfreek
27-08-2003, 07:19
Not to be an ass, but if this "flame baiting" goes on any longer, the mods will be alerted.


Thanks.
Omz222
27-08-2003, 07:21
Not to be an ass, but if this "flame baiting" goes on any longer, the mods will be alerted.


Thanks.
I'll quit this, sorry.
27-08-2003, 07:21
maybe you should read my posts before replying ,Omz.[...]when i had clearly stated several reasons for my ignore[...] I won't argue this further
27-08-2003, 07:22
sorry AMF, i just had alot of pent-up anger and i needed a release :oops: :oops: :oops:
Automagfreek
27-08-2003, 07:23
sorry AMF, i just had alot of pent-up anger and i needed a release :oops: :oops: :oops:

No problem.
Omz222
27-08-2003, 07:23
sorry AMF, i just had alot of pent-up anger and i needed a release
Do so via TM.
27-08-2003, 10:10
Somebody sticky this.
Independent Hitmen
27-08-2003, 10:14
Diplomacy is the art of one country SCREWING another.

OOC:Whats the little command thingy for bold and italics>>
imported_Ell
27-08-2003, 10:23
type your bold message here, but remove the z's

AMF, any thoughts on gunboat diplomacy?
Independant Pluto
27-08-2003, 10:33
[code:1:47d3bf85d7][b]Your bold message here![/b][/code:1:47d3bf85d7]
Independant Pluto
27-08-2003, 10:35
or i's for italic, u's for underline

Or you could follow this link (http://www.nationstates.net/forum/faq.php?mode=bbcode)
Alphan zieonc law
27-08-2003, 11:04
this realy should be stickyed(hopes DT and his freinds see this as well). :D
Independent Hitmen
27-08-2003, 12:06
Thanx ppl i will be sure to use it a lot
Clan Smoke Jaguar
27-08-2003, 12:20
The biggest nuke in RL (yes, that 100 megaton thing was derived from simulations) was tested by Russians in the 60s. That was 65 megatons!

Yup, and the largest warhead yeild on an ICBM was on the SS-18 Mods 1 & 3, which could deliver a massive 25 megaton RV with rather high accuracty (replaced by the mod 6, which "only" has a 20 megaton warhead, but with twice the accuracy). The MIRVed versions (Mods 4 & 5 specifically) were the most feared Soviet weapons, and were the primary US target for reduction in the START and START II treaties.

An interesting note: Soviet ICBMs tend to be much better than American ones. They not only have much higher payloads and weapon yeilds, but superior accuracy. The reason is that they were designed for a first strike counterforce role, destroying military targets like silos and communication centers to prevent retaliation, while US missiles were primarily aimed at destroying population centers.
Alphan zieonc law
27-08-2003, 13:39
bump
27-08-2003, 13:49
AZL... dont you realize I have a war mongering reputation to uphold?!?!?!?
Automagfreek
27-08-2003, 21:09
Poke
imported_Cspalla
27-08-2003, 21:12
Well, they ut it on the New to NS thread at least. Stell may be unhappy with me for saying this, but this is a real good thread. I've been doing NS forever (*sigh...the lack of lfe thing again) and I learned a thing or two. The info on nukes is quite good.
Goobergunchia
27-08-2003, 21:19
GDP Calculator link: http://www.pipian.com/stuffforchat/gdpcalc.php
imported_Cspalla
27-08-2003, 23:41
Just one hint: that GDP thing is a useful tool, but it is not the holy grail. (Ni! Ni!) Too many times I see people saying "Well I figured it out on this so it is indisputeable live with it. "
Goobergunchia
28-08-2003, 00:41
Just one hint: that GDP thing is a useful tool, but it is not the holy grail. (Ni! Ni!) Too many times I see people saying "Well I figured it out on this so it is indisputeable live with it. "

I posted it because AMF asked for it in the original post.
imported_Cspalla
28-08-2003, 00:42
I know that. I'm just brigning up a point about it.
28-08-2003, 00:57
yes, the GDP is not the holy grail, because the prices arn't the same everywhere.If you are poorer, you can do maintenace work on the same quatity of military equipment for less money, because salaries are lower.If you're in a planned economy, you can build items for the cost of production.etc....the GDP means how much cash you have, not how much purchasing power
28-08-2003, 01:08
this realy should be stickyed(hopes DT and his freinds see this as well). :D

Some people just cant Role Play. Reading a thread isnt going to help them improve all that much if at all.

Im not going to say this thread is good because it has been stated before many times. Personally, I think that the thread is great but see, no one will read it and the newbies will still be noobs. You went through a lot of trouble thats for sure, but in the end it will prove fruitless. Im sorry but thats the truth. If [violet] could just hurry and put a cap on the game a not have new memebrs sign up and also delete a few individuals (no names mentioned here), then the game would be improved. June 15th is when the forums got bad, and yes it really is sad and has driven many members to quit. I think im going to start a Role Players club and even put myself through RPU just to try and improve the game that much. But good job...
-The logistics Freek
Automagfreek
28-08-2003, 09:29
But for those newbies that want to learn, and beter their RP skills, or even those that have been here awhile and want to refine thier skills, a thread like this may prove most usefull. Those are the people that read threads like this and walk away having learned something, unlike the n00bs who just want to declare war on the UN or launch n00kZ on day 1.
Clan Smoke Jaguar
28-08-2003, 11:26
Some elaboration on economies, and a note on GDP calculators
Most GDP calculators assume that the US is a Frightening economy, or at least an All-Consuming. However, as has been mentioned here, I've seen more than a few statements that put it a bit lower. If that's the case, the following might be a better GDP per capita listing. Please note that these reflect median GDPs for that economic level, so they could easily be a little more or a little less than the numbers listed.

Frightening: $50,000
Surpasses all economies in real life. No examples.

All-Consuming: $45,000
Luxembourg is currently the only nation at this level.

Powerhouse: $40,000
Exceeding that of the US by a decent margin. A few nations have been here (ie Luxembourg), but there are none right now.

Thriving: $35,000
This is where the US is.

Very Strong: $30,000
Examples: Canada, Japan, Belgium, Norway, and Switzerland.

Strong: $25,000
Examples: France, Germany, Italy, and the UK.

Very Good: $20,000
Examples: South Korea, Israel, and Spain.

Good: $15,000
Examples: Taiwan, the Czech Republic, and Hungary.

Fair: $10,000
Examples: South Africa, Poland, Chile, and Argentina.

Reasonable: $8,000
Examples: Russia, Mexico, and Brazil.

Developing: $6,000
Examples: Libya, Iran, Romania, and Turkey.

Struggling: $4,500
Examples: China, Jordan, Egypt, and the Ukraine.

Weak: $2,500
Examples: Syria, Cuba, India, Iraq, Vietnam, and Pakistan.

Fragile: $1,500
Examples: Cambodia, Sudan, and Angola.

Basket Case: $1,000
Examples: North Korea, Chad, and Afghanistan.

Imploded: $500
Examples: Ethiopia, Somalia, and Tanzania.


It should be noted that many nations with lower economies have them BECAUSE of oversized militaries. The top spenders (relative to GDP) are North Korea and Angola, and Ethiopia is rather high as well. Their economies are Basket Case, Fragile, and Imploded, respectively. Should they bother to spend that money elsewhere, they will of course improve significantly.
Personally, I think that these represent what happens when you take a decent economy and focus too much on military (you would have, say, a Good economy, but RP a Basket Case due to too much military spending), and will start to bounce back to the listed one once funds are put to better use. You would NOT have a nation listed as a Basket Case economy with an oversized army, and if you had Imploded, you would probably have almost no army to speak of (a volunteer militia maybe, but not a real standing army).

On the reciprocal, nations like Luxembourg, Switzerland, Japan, and Canada, who have very small military expenditures, have some of the best economies, and if you were to drop military spending to almost nil, you might be able to RP a slightly better economy than the one listed.
Automagfreek
02-09-2003, 21:31
Good points, CSJ.
Automagfreek
08-09-2003, 05:21
Kick
Chellis
10-09-2003, 08:28
Err, poland is in like a super good state right now...are you sure its only at 10k?
Clan Smoke Jaguar
10-09-2003, 13:22
Actually, it's about $9500 as of 2002, but it is going up.
-Rome-
10-09-2003, 13:25
Ooooh. Verrry nice. I like it.
Steel Butterfly
19-09-2003, 18:53
GDP Calculator link: http://www.pipian.com/stuffforchat/gdpcalc.php
don't follow that :roll:
Thelas
19-09-2003, 19:02
another good war is the Knootoss conflict between Dominion and SATO forces
Automagfreek
19-09-2003, 19:03
another good war is the Knootoss conflict between Dominion and SATO forces

So I've heard, I'll have to read it.
19-09-2003, 19:21
The post started with an example Nuclear detonation. While it was well written and stated some fact, there we salient points not presented.

The blast radius map and following figures are ficticious.

1. No megatonage value was used.
2. No clarification of Surface, subsurface or Air burst was defined.
3. No wind, air currents or temps were used.

Nuclear blasts and their effects are NEVER perfectly circular.

Just an observation not a criticism... actually if was very well done.
Rejistania
22-09-2003, 21:23
Sorry for asking stupid questions:

What does 'bump' mean?
Where would be 'developing' in the economy list?

TIA
Automagfreek
22-09-2003, 22:59
The post started with an example Nuclear detonation. While it was well written and stated some fact, there we salient points not presented.

The blast radius map and following figures are ficticious.

1. No megatonage value was used.
2. No clarification of Surface, subsurface or Air burst was defined.
3. No wind, air currents or temps were used.

Nuclear blasts and their effects are NEVER perfectly circular.

Just an observation not a criticism... actually if was very well done.

Again, it was an



E

X

A

M

P

L

E

of a nuclear blast. I don't know how many times I stated that.




What does 'bump' mean?

It brings a thread back to the top of the forum. Any sort of post at all will do it, but Bump is used when people just want to put their thread back at the top.

Where would be 'developing' in the economy list?

It's on the first page, check again.
New Genoa
22-09-2003, 23:21
Best. Thread. Ever.

http://www.nationstates.net/images/flags/norfolk_island--54.jpg
The Free Republic of New Genoa
Rejistania
23-09-2003, 00:53
It's on the first page, check again.

uuups! It seemed I was totally blind. Thanks for the quick answer!
Clan Smoke Jaguar
23-09-2003, 02:52
Sorry for asking stupid questions:

What does 'bump' mean?
Where would be 'developing' in the economy list?

TIA
From my post on the previous page:
GDP Per Capita = $6,000
RL Examples: Libya, Iran, Romania, and Turkey.
Goobergunchia
23-09-2003, 03:02
What does 'bump' mean?

It's used to "bump" a thread to the first page of the forum. I prefer "kick", but I think I'm the only one that does...
30-09-2003, 20:43
How do you buy weapons and other things! :shock:
Automagfreek
15-11-2003, 23:38
Bump, cuz I don't want this thread to be purged.
15-11-2003, 23:53
One Word: Sticky