NationStates Jolt Archive

I've had this civil rights beef for a while on the Knootoss account. Issues where I select pro-civil rights positions don't seem to affect my nation at all. I've legalised harry potter and euthanasia countless times, people can marry their pets and all that crap, yet my civil rights level simply refuses to go above excellent (and occasionally superb, but it hasn't been world benchmark for years. Which I find really odd since I am pro-civil rights on everything.)

Just now, I answered three issues that are nice to civil liberties. Both my civil rights and political freedoms are still exactly the same, but I dropped from civil rights lovefest category (high CR) into New York Times Democracy (average CR) and I know for a fact that I'll be answering pro-CR issues non-stop for at least a bloody month now to get back to a "high" category. I bet the direct read-out for civil rights will just stay at "excellent" though, since it has been at "excellent" for ages even whilst switching between categories of different CR-levels.

When Knootoss was young, this shit didn't happen by the way.

Just look at this:

The Knootoss Enquirer offers weekly cash prizes for 'most blasphemous song, story, or cartoon', cheese has become the new icon of political dissent, guns are banned, and surveillance cameras are banned.

This may be a silly webgame, but I seriously do not see how this, on balance, can cause my civil rights to DROP an entire category.

On second thought, this should probably be in gameplay or technical. If a mod could move it and possibly comment?

Nah. It's fine here, actually.

The Knootoss Enquirer offers weekly cash prizes for 'most blasphemous song, story, or cartoon', cheese has become the new icon of political dissent, guns are banned, and surveillance cameras are banned.Banning guns may have reduced your Civil Rights, for what it's worth.

Nah. It's fine here, actually.

Banning guns may have reduced your Civil Rights, for what it's worth.

Yeah. I figured about the guns. I wasn't claiming that my CR goes down for no reason. I mean... there always is an issue that triggers the drop, and in my case the gun issue is my single "anti-CR" issue according to the game.

What I do not understand is how I can pick 3 positive issues and one negative one, and get kicked down an entire category. Even moreso, I STILL only have "medium" excellent civil rights despite having answered tons of pro-Civil Rights issues since originally posting this. They all have no bloody effect.

What I do not understand is how I can pick 3 positive issues and one negative one, and get kicked down an entire category.All issues are not created equal.

Imagine that the border between the two rankings is 85. You are just barely clinging to your category ranking, and your stat is 87. You answer three pro-CR issues, but they have minor effects and bring your ranking up to 90. You answer one anti-CR issue, but it's a big one. It could drop your ranking down to 76. You would need to answer 9 of the "lesser" issues to counteract that single major issue.

Now, it doesn't work exactly like that (it's much more complicated), but that's the general idea. In a real world application, mandating that students say "Yes sir" or "Yes ma'am" to teachers is, technically, reducing civil rights. It's just really minor, especially when compared to, say, instituting racial segregation.

Regulating gun use for the civilian population must be the NS equivalent of holocausting the jews then. :/

Interesting thought: African countries would probably have better civil rights records than much of Europe, in NS. If they all answered their issues.

Regulating gun use for the civilian population must be the NS equivalent of holocausting the jews then. :/Heh. Well, ya know, Max and Siro are big pro-gun nuts :p

Interesting thought: African countries would probably have better civil rights records than much of Europe, in NS. If they all answered their issues.Aside from all the oppression and killing, yeah.

I know you're kidding, though. It could also be a matter of issues you don't expect to affect your CR actually do. And, also, it's not like nations have a "civil_rights" attribute that's adjusted. There's a least a dozen different arrays that deal with civil rights, and some issues have a greater effect based on how a given right is ranked. For instance, if Kim Jong Ill was to pass some law that restricted civil rights, it wouldn't be as noticable as if, say, Sweden did. North Korea might get a 1 point knock to its aggregate CR score, while Sweden might get a 15 point ding.

Well the gun issue is a well-known beef of many people. I know it's hopeless to try and get it changed, but it is at least controversial. A lot of people don't consider limitations on gun use to be an infringement on civil rights. The theory that the government has a monopoly on violence to defend democracy is more accepted here than the theory that citizens need to defend themselves from a tyrannical government with guns. But eh. That as an aside.

On topic, it is distinctly possible that some issues affect my civil rights without me realising it. I've been very careful though. But your Sweden-example could explain why it is so hard for me to go up when it is so easy for me to go down.

And, also, it's not like nations have a "civil_rights" attribute that's adjusted. There's a least a dozen different arrays that deal with civil rights, and some issues have a greater effect based on how a given right is ranked.

That's probably why one of my newer countries keeps getting it's CR reduced by issues that have consistently increased CR in my other countries... :headbang: