NationStates Jolt Archive

I am brand new to NS, having been here for less than a week and I am already concerned with the slowness of issues (I selected the Two Issues a Day option but have only been recieving one a day), with the choices given per each issue and in what is being said, affected as a result of picking what is often the least objectionable choice rather than a choice I actually agree with. Some example of this are... on the subject of meat-eating, I have nothing against meat-eating myself as limits on it would require me to practically do without my favorite food group (if God did not intend us to eat hamburger, he wouldn't have made cows out of it) but now my nation is listed as frowning on meat eating when I thought I was making a choice against animal cruelty. I am "avowedly athiest" when all I believe is a strict seperation of Church and State and do not believe that the state should have any involvement in religions or religious freedom any more than I want religions involved in the government or affecting political freedoms or freedoms of personal choice. I didn't want to have my government do anything regarding encouraging Harry Potter as being included in school curriculums, I just am against censorship in pretty much any form and feel people should be free to choose for themselves what they want to read and not have their choices made for them or limited by the morals, beliefs, anger, narrow-mindedness or stupidity of others.

Why don't we have an option to write our own choices regarding issues when we don't agree with any of those presented to us. I know that we can simply dismiss an issue, but that is as bad and as limiting as being stuck to choose between 2 - 4 stupid choices when I really do want answer the issue in question. If they don't want to let us do this (I know and understand that it would take a lot of efforts by the mods to individually judge those self-made responses) but what about if they would just announce a general issue in the forums or by TG and allow individual nations to submit general responses which they would have written themselves and then have the mods use the best of those submitted responses to be used for the choices.

Finally, I know that when we get to a population level of 500M we get more choices and input but how long does that take on average? I have a very clear idea of what I want my government to be, my economic model, etc. but my vision is not generally in line with any existing models, examples or concepts that I know of. How are we supposed to be simulating structures and models of government when the only choices which we are given are dervived from what is or has been rather than making it possible to create new models ourselves.

Anyway, just my thoughts and questions so far. I look forward to any answers, input or help anyone out there can give me.

Thank you,

Falkeep
Libertarian Monarchist

Oh, yeah... another one was about pot smoking at work. My honest choice would have been that business owners could set ground rules for what their employees do on premises while on the clock but the choices given came down to totally banning it in ALL public areas or saying that there are not legitimate restrictions that have nothing to do with limiting personal freedom (i.e. -- like you don't want someone drunk driving your bus or operating dangerous equipment near you).

Why are all of the choices so extreme rather than having some sensible choices, at least mixed in with the extreme ones (which have value and should also be included as options)? That is basically what I am asking.

Tossed to the Issues forum...

I am brand new to NS, having been here for less than a week and I am already concerned with the slowness of issues (I selected the Two Issues a Day option but have only been recieving one a day)They don't arrive at the same time. Arrival is separated by approx 12 hours.

with the choices given per each issue and in what is being said, affected as a result of picking what is often the least objectionable choice rather than a choice I actually agree with.

Why is my nation so weird?

Everything is exaggerated a little. Well, okay, a lot. Your decisions affect your nation very strongly, so your country might seem like a more extreme version of what you were aiming for. Unless you have radical politics. In which case you probably think nothing's wrong.

My decision had unintended consequences!

Yep, that'll happen. For one thing, see "Why is my nation so weird?" above. For another, pretty much every decision you make will involve a trade-off of some kind. It's kind of an exercise in choosing the best of a bunch of bad options. You might find this frustrating, especially if you're the kind of person who thinks the solutions to all the world's problems are obvious.

Why don't we have an option to write our own choices regarding issues when we don't agree with any of those presented to us.The same reason you can't edit levels or choices in every other game in the universe.

Finally, I know that when we get to a population level of 500M we get more choices and input but how long does that take on average?3 months, I believe.

Okay. I get what you're on about, and I frequently get as stroppy about the choices as you obviously do, especially when I take them seriously. (I spent my first two months taking them utterly seriously. Sometimes I still slip back.) But observation -- and observation alone, I'm not a Mod -- has taught me that there are a few points to bear in mind.

Point 1: NS is a GAME. The issues are part of the mechanical side of the game, like, say, dice. Simple yes/no choices and a limit on the number available makes it easier to set up and run.

Point 2: Machines are intelligent morons. This particular machine judges you entirely on outward appearance. It's like those people who just know that men who wear pink are gay, and women who wear leather are Lesbians (especially if either group looks good in it). Your 'outward appearance' is shaped by the decisions you made when setting up your nation. The Game knows all lefties are spendthrifts, it is convinced that all capitalists would sell their grandmothers, and it will never change its basic opinion, even if your socialist government finally does achieve a superb economy, or your capitalist democracy earns benchmark human rights. It is just waiting for you to make the slightest slip so it can say, "Blood will tell," or, "The apple doesn't fall far from the tree," or similar folk wisdom. It will always do its level best to wrench your nation back to what it thinks you should be, based on what you have already decided.

Point 3: Though the issues themselves appear mechanically, their content is made up by people, and the people concerned are NSers. This means they have a feral sense of humour, like The Founder, Max Barry. They deliberately make issues that will force humanitarians to make the least inhumane, but still utterly reprehensible, choice; that will oblige socialists to sell their children to be ground up in the greedy maw of Capitalism; that will make capitalists embrace cradle-to-grave social welfare. In short, that will outrage as many people as possible in the time available. This is their/our idea of fun. You can fight back by checking out the Issues forum for spoilers, or by contributing even worse issues yourself.

Point 4: Real life does this too. It doesn't always offer negotiable or even bearable choices on The Big Issues. It is how it is, O Grasshopper.

So don't believe everything the game tells you about a nation on its home page. It is possible for an entirely peaceful nation to have an enormous defence budget. It is possible for a nation with insanely strict child labour laws to have 14-year-olds surviving by selling lemonade on the sidewalk (or even on the footpath). Judge us by what we do on the forums, rather than by what The Game says we do.

And always remember the rule that is lived daily by the wise, just and respected nation of Compadria, ie, Do unto Otters the way you would have them do unto you.

Tossed to the Issues forum...

They don't arrive at the same time. Arrival is separated by approx 12 hours.

I understand that is what SHOULD be happening but it is not. I am not saying that I am not getting two issues at the same time everyday, I am saying that (with the exception of yesterday when it did seem like I got two issues 12 hours apart) I am not getting two issues as day.

Also, it may be my personality type or just my stuborness but, in the real world I don't accept when I have to make a decision for which I find all choices wrong or objectional. I don't feel that, although it would make life easier for people who have to deal with me, it is my obligation to comply simply with what is put in front of me (just like when I play other games out there, if I don't like the way the game is designed or what its rules are (like Evercrack) I don't play it. You can, of course make a case that this is a major reason for my lack of achievment in life but none the less using "that is how it is in the real world" as a justification for accepting something I don't agree with isn't a valid reason to use on me.

I personally am intrigued about what NS2 might be and am tempted to be one of the players who chooses to pay for the option of playing a more complex game but what makes me have doubts about doing so is what I see in this free incarnation of the idea. It may not be so with everyone else out there but for the long term success of such a venture, those of you involved at the higher levels might want to think about how what happens in here, what choices and options we get, etc. will affect your recruiting for the game that stands to make some of y'all some money.

Just my opinion and, like everything I believe, I understand that I could be wrong.

Falkeep
Libertarian Monarchist

The only valid purpose of law is to protect people from each other. The only valid purpose of government is to ensure that people are protected from each other and to do those things that cannot be done by the individual.

Rascism makes no sense to me. There are so many valid reasons for despising people that if you are reduced to using the color of their skin for an excuse, you just aren't trying hard enough.

I am saying that (with the exception of yesterday when it did seem like I got two issues 12 hours apart) I am not getting two issues as day.Seems it has solved itself. Perhaps it was a matter of perception.

Also, it may be my personality type or just my stuborness but, in the real world I don't accept when I have to make a decision for which I find all choices wrong or objectional.Yeah, except that life is all about making choices when you don't much care for either option. And life doesn't tend to have a "Dismiss" option.

just like when I play other games out there, if I don't like the way the game is designed or what its rules are (like Evercrack) I don't play it.Okay. You and everyone else. I rarely play games I don't enjoy. Of course, I also don't think that I should have the right to change the game so that it does conform to how I think it should be.

You can, of course make a case that this is a major reason for my lack of achievment in life but none the less using "that is how it is in the real world" as a justification for accepting something I don't agree with isn't a valid reason to use on me.I'm not attempting to justify a single thing. If you wish to refuse to deal with anything that doesn't work exactly how you think it should... well... "lack of achievment" is the least of your concerns.

It may not be so with everyone else out there but for the long term success of such a venture, those of you involved at the higher levels might want to think about how what happens in here, what choices and options we get, etc. will affect your recruiting for the game that stands to make some of y'all some money.Nah. We thought we'd blithely ignore everything around us and slap together some random junk and hope for the best.

HI ! I want to sack some of my ministers ... can I do ?

Seems it has solved itself. Perhaps it was a matter of perception.

It has been well over 12 hours since I last recieved an issue (as well as over 12 hours since I responded to that issue). As I have not recieved an additional issue in that time it would seem that it has NOT solved itself.

Nah. We thought we'd blithely ignore everything around us and slap together some random junk and hope for the best.

Ah, well, that would seem to explain a great many things, wouldn't it. Thank you for your honesty.

It has been well over 12 hours since I last recieved an issue (as well as over 12 hours since I responded to that issue). As I have not recieved an additional issue in that time it would seem that it has NOT solved itself.



Ah, well, that would seem to explain a great many things, wouldn't it. Thank you for your honesty.
Time zones.

Well, let me tell you, issues will continue to have unwanted consequences... not only in your nation's description, but in your UN ratings as well. Just yesterday I voted to allow people to vote for "None of the Above" and what happens? My Political Freedoms rating drops a notch. Why? Because it's the perception of the issue authors and editors.

You could just create a country the way you see fit. You could design a website that just displays your country, and has on it exactly what you want it to say. That, however, wouldn't be a game... it would be a website that just displays your country.

Consider your unwanted consequences part of the difficulty in ruling a country. Bush invaded Iraq because... well... I'm sure he thinks he had a reason. Anyway, I'm pretty sure it didn't go as planned. I'm pretty sure he didn't want ultra-low polls and to face possible (however improbable) impeachment.

Just count your blessings that your whoops's don't get you impeached or lynched. After all, it's a game, and next time that issue comes along, you can try something else.

Time zones.

12 hours is 12 hours. It doesn't matter what time zone something originates in or in which it ends... the amount of time which has passed in each zone is the same.

Falkeep
Libertarian Monarchist

Let's see here...

birthday: Sun Jan 22 15:33:49 2006
dilemma_frequency: 2
past_dilemmas: [ '24', '0', '6', '19', '3', '21', '7', '17', '8', '18' ]
open_dilemmas: [ '18' ]
lastupdate: Fri Jan 27 07:00:03 2006
Current systemtime: Fri Jan 27 09:57:15 2006So, you should have gotten an issue just under 3 hours ago.

Your nation is 5 days old; at 2 issues/day from the beginning, we should expect you to have had between 10 and 12 issues. You have 1 open issue, and 10 resolved issue. I'd say you're getting two per day.

HI ! I want to sack some of my ministers ... can I do ?

There are issues that let you sack your ministers and become a dictator, it's actually the first issue you receive; it's called 'Should Democracy be Compulsory'.