NationStates Jolt Archive

I received the Religion issue for the first time today. I'm guessing you've had other people suggest this, but why not increase the options a little? For example I'm a Christian but suscribe to salvation through grace by faith not works. I.e protestant! None of this guilt oppression stuff for me thanks very much. Now, I am not going to let my fledgeling nation follow a new age guru, nor am I going to let it be atheistic, when choosing state religion... I'm sure there must be countless others who've asked this. What are Muslims Sikh's and Jews meant to put, because let's face it if someone from those religions started their own nation, it's highly likely that they'd want their own belief to be the dominant one. I know this can't be done right down to the nitty gritty, but I feel that it would be easy with a little work to categorise each of the major faiths and sub-groups.

Isd it do-able?

Thanks for your insight.

N

One thread is sufficient to get across your message.

http://forums2.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=352808

I received the Religion issue for the first time today. I'm guessing you've had other people suggest this, but why not increase the options a little? For example I'm a Christian but suscribe to salvation through grace by faith not works. I.e protestant! None of this guilt oppression stuff for me thanks very much. Now, I am not going to let my fledgeling nation follow a new age guru, nor am I going to let it be atheistic, when choosing state religion... I'm sure there must be countless others who've asked this. What are Muslims Sikh's and Jews meant to put, because let's face it if someone from those religions started their own nation, it's highly likely that they'd want their own belief to be the dominant one. I know this can't be done right down to the nitty gritty, but I feel that it would be easy with a little work to categorise each of the major faiths and sub-groups.

Isd it do-able?

Thanks for your insight.

N

A new issues dealing with the major faiths would be possible but you're talking about too much technicality when you go into subgroups.
I reckon such an issue would propose adopting a state religion.
It would choose from the major faiths:
christianity (would include both catholics and protestants)
judaism (would include all forms of it)
islam (would include wahhabism, Shiitism, and Sunnism)
hinduism (would include buddhism)
atheism
paganism (would include animism, wicca, shamanism, new ageism)

Then again, depending on the number of choices you are allowed to include:
Catholicism
Protestantism
nondenominational
orthodox
Judaism (not familiar with the different types)
Wahhabism
Shiitism
Sunniism
Hinduism
Buddhism
atheism
Non Religious
animism
shamanism
wicca
new age

Or the latter could be used to make seperate issues that you would get once you made a decision on the original one.
For example in issue 1 you chose christianity. Then issue 2 would ask you if you want catholicism or protestantism (of course you could give a third choice of nondenominational which is very popular in the RL)

Don't forget fieldism, Rabababaism, and Frisbeeterianism!

Pieism. Has to be on there.

(it is real, by the way. just google it)

For example I'm a Christian but suscribe to salvation through grace by faith not works. I.e protestant! None of this guilt oppression stuff for me thanks very much.N

Faith without works is dead. You have to show your faith through works. I'm not Catholic, by the way. Just a Christian.

Don't forget fieldism, Rabababaism, and Frisbeeterianism!
We made the list, we made the list!

You can always select 'dismiss'.

Faith without works is dead. You have to show your faith through works. I'm not Catholic, by the way. Just a Christian.

Faith without works is dead yes, but salvation comes through faith in Christ's sacrifice first... works are the fruit of that faith, fuelled by the Holy Spirit. The whole point of the gospel is you can't earn salvation, it is given by God's grace. Our actions should be fuelled by our faith. What James is getting at, is basically what Jesus said earlier "you can tell a tree by it's fruit". I.e, if someone is living with the name tag of a "Christian" and yet they are constantly going round bludgeoning their neighbours heads in with blunt instruments, then it's highly unlikely that their faith is serious... because their actions don't bear out what they claim to believe. It's like in the parable. Having been let off all his debt, the first tenant goes round with an unforgiving and unrepentant attitude and persecutes a debtor to him, this clearly demonstrates that the former has not learned his lesson, and has not understood what grace is.

However, the main point I'm taking issue with is that our faith is not one that's driven by guilt. Conviction and repentance, yes, but we don't live our lives under a black cloud do we? And I feel that the Issue gives that impression.

Does that make sense?

Thanks for your input though, and it's great to know there are other Christian's out there.

I also like the idea of staggering religion issues step by step, very much. I'll use christianity as an example:

Issue 1:
Christianity
Judaism
Islam
Atheism
Multifaith religion
New Age/other (here you could include fun ones like Jedi)

Issue 2: (Once Christianity selected)
Roman Catholic
Protestant
Orthodox
Pentecostal
Multidenominational (Christian but no bias)
This Faith isn't working out... let's reconsider

That way you could go back to issue 1 by selecting the final option.

with a bit of thought you could add in some interesting effects.

I think another idea would be to launch an issue whereby if you chose one religion, missionaries representing another religion request the right to enter the country... you could take a hard line and kick them out, or choose to be open and more tolerant.

what are peoples thoughts?

I also like the idea of staggering religion issues step by step, very much. I'll use christianity as an example:

Issue 1:
Christianity
Judaism
Islam
Atheism
Multifaith religion
New Age/other (here you could include fun ones like Jedi)

Issue 2: (Once Christianity selected)
Roman Catholic
Protestant
Orthodox
Pentecostal
Multidenominational (Christian but no bias)
This Faith isn't working out... let's reconsider

That way you could go back to issue 1 by selecting the final option.

with a bit of thought you could add in some interesting effects.

I think another idea would be to launch an issue whereby if you chose one religion, missionaries representing another religion request the right to enter the country... you could take a hard line and kick them out, or choose to be open and more tolerant.

what are peoples thoughts?


Sounds good to me.
I would think multifaith would be included in other.
This other would include your own made national church as well. Such as the church of Fresbeteerianism or Whittierism. It would also include stuff like Jediism.
The problem is figuring out what kind of effect on your nation each decision would have. I would propose that these issues not have an impact on your nation. They would be available just for fun.
BTW, FYI, Multidenominational is actually called Nondenominational.
Nondenominational meaning you are christian but you are not affiliated with any of the denominations.
Multidenominational meaning you are a conglomeration of many of the established denominations.
Of these two, the majority of Americans are now nondenominational.
Multifaith would also be called interfaith. Since that is the term that most people in the RL use.

Faith without works is dead yes, but salvation comes through faith in Christ's sacrifice first... works are the fruit of that faith, fuelled by the Holy Spirit. The whole point of the gospel is you can't earn salvation, it is given by God's grace. Our actions should be fuelled by our faith. What James is getting at, is basically what Jesus said earlier "you can tell a tree by it's fruit". I.e, if someone is living with the name tag of a "Christian" and yet they are constantly going round bludgeoning their neighbours heads in with blunt instruments, then it's highly unlikely that their faith is serious... because their actions don't bear out what they claim to believe. It's like in the parable. Having been let off all his debt, the first tenant goes round with an unforgiving and unrepentant attitude and persecutes a debtor to him, this clearly demonstrates that the former has not learned his lesson, and has not understood what grace is.

However, the main point I'm taking issue with is that our faith is not one that's driven by guilt. Conviction and repentance, yes, but we don't live our lives under a black cloud do we? And I feel that the Issue gives that impression.

Does that make sense?

Thanks for your input though, and it's great to know there are other Christian's out there.

I openly subscribe to the "faith without works" is dead teaching cause the "saved by faith alone" is clearly not taught anywhere in the bible. However, this is a thread for developing a religion issue. If you guys wish to continue this debate, I suggest the general forum would be a more appropriate forum.

Protestantism is just a blanket name for people who are not Catholic. you have Lutheranism, Presbyterianism, Methodist, ect. They are all seperate, and there is no one specific Protestant Church.
Also there is Mormon

Protestantism is just a blanket name for people who are not Catholic. you have Lutheranism, Presbyterianism, Methodist, ect. They are all seperate, and there is no one specific Protestant Church.
Also there is Mormon
True. We can't have the issue go into the various thousands of different denominations. We have to draw a line somewhere.

Ummm - what are you trying to achieve by this?

If all you want is the religion's name, then include it in your national motto. If not, each religion will need a different set of consequences.
That's going to get fun.
Firstly, large numbers of the religions listed have never been national religions, so we really don't know for sure what results to expect. Others have have only had one or two, frequently under stange situations - which skews the results.
Frex, if you try to base choosing Judaism as your national religion, then the logical coding for the game would be that you are repeatedly bombed and invaded, because that's what's happened to Israel. But that *shouldn't* be the coding, as Israel being in the middle of a war zone is a historical accident, not a result of the religion.
Next, we hit the problem of people's expectations. Now, people choosing Methodism probably won't mind if the game assumes that their nation is like Wales, nor will making Lutheran nations more Scandinavian cause problems. But I doubt it if Roman Catholics will be happy if their choice turns their nation into a Latin American nightmare! Yet, going by numbers of nations, etc that would be the logical coding - most RC nations are Central or Southern American, so they are the logical choices for working out results.

On a happier note, I have submitted an Issue giving several options for State religions - which we might see in several months. I worked backwards, creating a series of different results depending on the nature of the religion and then included a selection of names with each option. Hopefully that will work....

My idea was that, considering that most issues options are radical, why not make an extremist nation? Miratha, for instance, is highly corrupt, has little rights for citizens, is overly sadistic and is deeply Catholic. If it were to be an intermediate rather than an extreme, it wouldn't be nearly as interesting.

Protestantism is just a blanket name for people who are not Catholic. you have Lutheranism, Presbyterianism, Methodist, ect. They are all seperate, and there is no one specific Protestant Church.
Also there is Mormon

The Danish people's church is protestant.

All you, making religious listing. Don't forget the old nordic gods, please. Asatru as the religion is called, was two years ago concidered a valid religioun in Denmark, and i think there's a ritual hill somewhere serving as church. The chronicles of Thor, Odin and the rest is still living =)

EDIT; The danish asetru "church" is called Forn Siðr
http://www.fornsidr.dk/index_uk.html

All you, making religious listing. Don't forget the old nordic gods, please. Asatru as the religion is called, was two years ago concidered a valid religioun in Denmark, and i think there's a ritual hill somewhere serving as church. The chronicles of Thor, Odin and the rest is still living =)

EDIT; The danish asetru "church" is called Forn Siðr
http://www.fornsidr.dk/index_uk.html
Don't forget things like Wiccan, Scientology, Ancient Greek Mythology, Mormonism and all those other things that, unless you're an actual worshipper, think it's absolutely retarded. Well, I dunno about Mormonism, I don't know much about it. And Ancient Greek Mythology was a major religion for the Greeks and would still be respectable today if the Greek Empire survived. Wiccan and Scientology though, there should be an option for banning.

There's Hindu, Muslim, Shinto, Buddhism, Satanism, Wacky Cults, Vampirism (it astonishes me, how someone could still believe something like this), Christian (including Catholic, Orthodox and the many other Protestant sects), Judaism, Mormonism, Wiccan, Scientology, Norse/German, Greek/Roman and a lot more I can't remember at the moment.