NationStates Jolt Archive

Salusa had said that war against a fictatious foe using a war tree would be plausible, and so, without further ado, I submit if for critique.

Suggestions (especially for titles would be appreciated)

Here is the Trunk:

Qaaolchoura's War Issue Tree: Trunk: The Hawks

Decription: Members of several hawish parties have begun calling for a war of expansion by @@NAME@@ .

Validity: Always Valid, unless the tree has begun

Options:

[option]"A little war never hurt anybody," argues @@RANDOMNAME@@ of The League for @@NAME@@ 's Expansion. "We invade them, annex, them, and, viola! Everbody's happy."
[effect]@@NAME@@ has begun the conquest of several tiny countries along its border
[stats]morale improves, compassion drops, military spending increases very slightly

[option]"A little war?!?" bellows @@RANDOMNAME@@ of the @@NAME@@ Über Alles party. "Little wars will accomplish nothing but a waste of firepower! What we need is a major preemtive stike against one of our larger neighbors. 'The Mouse that Roared' they'll call us, and we'll teach the world that @@NAME@@ is not to be messed with!"
[effect]the military is currently embroiled in a major war against a stronger power
[stats]morale decreases, military spending increases, civil rights decrease, economy decreases

[option]"Hmm," muses noted neocon @@RANDOMNAME@@, "You know a preemtive strike might not be a bad idea, albeit no against a larger nation. A moderate sized nation with little chance of fighting back might be in order. We could plunder their natural resources and historic artifact and then sell off rebuilding contracts to the highest bidder. Think of the money we could make."
[effect]preparations to conquer and exploit a nearby ex-colony are underway
[stats]economy increases, military spending increases, compassion drops sharply

[option]"How maaaany times must the caaannonballs flyyy. . ." sings anti-war protester @@RANDOMNAME@@ whille holding fingers in a "v" shape outside of the government building in the capital. "I can't imagine how the government can even consider allowing these warmongering imperialists to get their way. These people are just like us on the inside, and their country of origin does not truely matter. It is time that we work to ensure peace througout the world."
[effect]the goverment is working to negotiate a just peace throughout the world
[stats]compassion increases, government spending increases, military spending drops sharply

[option]"Now I don't think that we should rush off to war for no reason," muses militant moderate @@RANDOMNAME@@, "but I don't think that we should get all self righteous and say that there is never a reason for war. War is not something that should be undertaken lightly, but it can be a nessesary evil. Perhaps the wisest course would be to call for a general referendum to be passed by a majority of registered voters before it is undertaken."
[effect]the public is allowed to vote on miltary matters
[stats]political freedoms increase, civil rights increase slightly

And the tree off of the first option:

Qaaolchoura's War Issue Tree: Annexation: The Minorities

Decription: Members of several annexed by @@NAME@@, national minorities have begun calling for recognition .

Validity: Only valid if option one has been chosen on the trunk of the war tree.
Options:

[option]"If we are to be permenately a part of @@NAME@@ then we deserve eaqual rights," argues @@RANDOMNAME@@ of the Marche Norion Nation conqured by @@NAME@@. "It is time that you drop this charade of 'miltary districts' and 'special territories' and allow us full citizenship."
[effect]residents of recently conqured provinces have at last been allowed the right to vote
[stats]morale improves slightly, political freedoms improve, compassion improves, civil rights improve slightly, military spending drops

[option]"Intergration, intersmation" snarls @@RANDOMNAME@@ of Aslan's Narnian Liberation Front. "This is our land, not yours, and we will fight to the death to retain Narnia's sovereignty. You might as well give us the ghost and return our complete independence."
[effect]recent land grabs have been relinquished
[stats]morale decreases, military spending increases, civil rights increase, economy decreases, compassion increases

[option]"Look at this ungrateful wrenchs," snarls @@RANDOMNAME@@ of @@NAME@@ for the @@NAME@@ , "We save them from the wretched hovels that they called 'nations' and now they are demanding concessions. Time to teach these ingrates a lesson which only brute force will teach them."
[effect]an offensive of ethnic clensing is under way
[stats]economy decreases, military spending increases sharply, compassion drops sharply, civil rights drop sharply, political freedoms drop sharply

[option]"No need for things to change at all really," suggests congenial gentelman of @@NAME@@, @@RANDOMNAME@@. "Things are just fine the way they are now. Seperate but equal. (Well not really, but the rest of the world won't notice.)"
[effect]an apartheid has taken shape in @@NAME@@
[stats]compassion drops, government spending decreases, civil rights drop, political freedoms drop

And the second option:

Qaaolchoura's War Issue Tree: Blitzkreig: The Defeats

Decription: Following a massive preemtive offensive by @@NAME@@ against the larger and more powerful nation known as Gondor, the public has begun to feel that defeat is inevitable.

Validity: Only valid if option two has been chosen on the trunk of the war tree.

Options:

[option]"Why not give up?" sighs defeated ex-patriot @@RANDOMNAME. "We'll have to pay reparations, and perhaps agree to allow them to occupy a bit of land. We have no hope of winning anyways."
[effect]almost all of @@NAME@@'s @@CURRENCY@@s are being shiped overseas.
[stats]economy drops as drastically as possible, civil rights drop, political freedoms drop, morale drops sharply, taxes become 100% goverment spending becomes the highest possible

[option]"We fight to the death!" screeches fanatic nationalist @@RANDOMNAME@@. "They can take our land, but it won't be anythinthing worth taking by the time that they are through with it."
[effect]the people have begun a kamikaze campaign against foreign enemies
[stats]everything drops down the toilet

[option]"No need to worry," suggests well respected internet wargamer @@RANDOMNAME@@. "When all looks lost, just invade another country. Within a brief period the two shall be fighting over our carcass."
[effect]the country is officially at war with every nation on Earth
[stats]compassion drops, government spending increases, military spending becomes the only government priority

[option]"Ptahh" growls Genral @@RANDOMNAME@@ of @@NAME@@'s army. "This war is going quite well. All that we need is permission to make these moronic citizens see it."
[effect]brainwashing is the norm, and newsspeak is the new offical language
[stats]morale decreases, military spending increases, civil rights decrease, economy decreases, political freedoms decreases

And the third option's branch:

Qaaolchoura's War Issue Tree: Expliotation: The Quagmire
Would "Quagmire in Moordoor" be a good title ya'll think?

Decription: @@NAME@@'s preemptive attack on moordor has developed into

what some critics call a 'quagmire'.

Validity: Only valid if option three has been chosen on the trunk of the war

tree or if somebody choses to attack Moordoor in another issue that I am

working in "Preemptive Attack on Moordoor?"

Options:

[option]What quagmire?" asks former government staffer

@@RANDOMNAME@@. "There is no quagmire. This is just a bunch of lies by

the evilly-biased media. I say that we make it known that all true patriots

should insist on hearing ony postitive news from Moordoor."
[effect]citizens boycott all news that says anything negative about the

government.
[stats]intellegence drops, civil freedoms drop

[option]"Oh, theres a quagmire alright," snaps left-wing think tank

@@RANDOMNAME@@. "This is a mess that can only be solved through

increased communication, and tact. If we increase our biliguilism in Orcish,

Trollish, and the dark tongue, then perhaps someday we can help them rebild

their shattered country."
[effect]working with the local populace terrtories occupied by @@NAME@@

are being rebuilt
[stats]morale increases, military spending increases, civil rights increase,

economy decreases sharply, compassion increases, intellegence increases

[option]"Never fear," says CEO of Reconstruction Inc, @@RANDOMNAME@@.

"Profit motive and a few more police will win em over. "
[effect]the reconstruction of occupied territories is conducted solely by bribery
[stats]economy rises, military spending increases, police retion increases

[option]"Ok, It's a mess," says famous pessimist , @@RANDOMNAME@@.

"Let'sjust get the hell out of this godforesaken hellhole."
[effect]the millitary is known to loot weaker nations and then withdraw
[stats]compassion drops sharply, government spending decreases

Fourth option:

Qaaolchoura's War Issue Tree: Disarmament: The Taunting

Decription: @@NAME@@'s work for peace has brought criticism from some the Oceanian government

Validity: Only valid if option four has been chosen on the trunk of the war tree.

Options:

[option]"You bleeding heart compassion is getting in the way of our ambitions," says Oceanian anbassador to @@NAME@@, @@RANDOMNAME@@. "We on the verge of annexing East-Asia when your meddling forced us to back down. I warn you, keep out of our affairs or you shall rue the day that you ever meddled in our war aginst the East-Asian infidels."
[effect]The government avoids confrontation at all costs
[stats]morale drops, civil freedoms drop, compassion drops, political freedoms drop

[option]"What is the worst that they can do? " inquires Religion of Peace practtioner @@RANDOMNAME@@. "We are working to accomplish Great Deity's work by helping their creations, and he won't let any harm befall us. For that matter who cares about national borders. We need to educate these people. And why don't we fully disarm while we are at it"
[effect]the country unarmed country is completely ingores international boundaries
[stats]compassion decreases, military spending becomes nill, government spending increases, morality increases

[option]"Although I concede that we should not violate the sovereignty of other nations, that does not mean that we should not continue to work for peace " submits @@NAME@@'s Secretary of State, @@RANDOMNAME@@. "We can still give help to rebuild war torn nations when asked, and train peacekeepers to monitor dilmilitarized zones without depriving the local governmets of control."
[effect]@@NAME@@ is known worldwide for its for its skilled peacekeepers
[stats]morale increases, military spending increases, comapssion greatly increases

[option]"Remind me again why we went with this moronic hippie program in the first place!" demands radio pundit @@RANDOMNAME@@. "I say that we abandon this fast lane to nowhere and focus on domestic issues. Like executing hippie-terrorists and increasing subsidies to business."
[effect]the government is known to respond to problems with random diversion tactics
[stats]compassion drops sharply, government subsidies to business increase, military spending increases, civil rights drop sharply, economy increases, and intellegence drops sharply

Reserved for branch from fifth option.

I said plausible meaning technically plausible. However, I'd be shocked to see this happen. Go for it if you want, but don't get your hopes up.

I said plausible meaning technically plausible. However, I'd be shocked to see this happen. Go for it if you want, but don't get your hopes up.I'll finish the third option, and then wait for some more responses.

Although it should probably have registered by now that I have never seen you get anything wrong, I'll waste my time on it anywhen.

Although it should probably have registered by now, that I have never seen you get anything wrong, I'll waste my time on it anywhen.

It happens, just rarely . . . Maybe I am Max Barry? That would explain it, wouldn't it? Hmm, and to think that I didn't even know.

P.S. This is not an attempt to hijack this thread, and I'll be very pissed if anyone uses this to hijack the thread. If you really need to debate this topic, go here (http://www.nationstates.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=44769).

A few spelling corrections:
integration
give up the ghost
these ungrateful
exploitation
only
territories
Let's just

Also, what was "police retion" supposed to be?

Notes re. substance:
In the issue that comes from chooing the 2nd option, in the last option, why does compassion increase?
In the issue that comes from choosing the 3rd option, why all the LotR references?

Very nice idea but the effects seem somewhat illogical, eg why would civil rights increase with a media brainwashing campaign? Still more issues like this would be very happy.

The very last option on the first one is no good. There has to be a con somewhere.

The very last option on the first one is no good. There has to be a con somewhere.

Well, the con could come later in the tree.

You know, this could work out very well. Let's see how it grows. I'd be fascinated to see what comes of this. I do have a suggestion though: sometimes make more than one issue possible at a branch of the tree, the server will pick randomly between them, thus the war won't be purely predictable.

I'll bump the idea up the ladder to [violet] and help out if this looks possible and if it is needed.

In the issue that comes from chooing the 2nd option, in the last option, why does compassion increase?
In the issue that comes from choosing the 3rd option, why all the LotR references?

Very nice idea but the effects seem somewhat illogical, eg why would civil rights increase with a media brainwashing campaign? Still more issues like this would be very happy.

D**n!

I knew I did that somewhere. :x

The answer to both is that long story short, in order to save myself typing I simply did save as and then proceded to edit other branches from there. Later on I scrambled the options into a long order. I'll fix it.

Edit: quote fixed

Well, the con could come later in the tree.
Yes, that is exactly my intent. The same would be true for the fourth option too. I had one in mind for both already.

You know, this could work out very well. Let's see how it grows. I'd be fascinated to see what comes of this. I do have a suggestion though: sometimes make more than one issue possible at a branch of the tree, the server will pick randomly between them, thus the war won't be purely predictable.
Will do. I've already come up with second option ideas for the second, fourth, and fifth options. I won't be able to do more than one option a day at most until Thanksgiving break, but I'll have plenty of time during the break (unless my father makes me come down and talk to people a lot).

I'll bump the idea up the ladder to [violet] and help out if this looks possible and if it is needed.
Thanks Sal. :D

I'll try to do it as well as I'm able.

Input on what I have so far would be appreciated.

After this I stop bumping it until I'm almost done.

The idea of a story tree is a pretty neat one. The only code change that would be required is something to make sure that once you'd gotten the first issue in the tree, next daily update you got a subsequent one. (Otherwise there could be very long gaps between them.)

This shouldn't be too difficult. Basically, if people are prepared to go to the work of creating story trees, I'm prepared to modify the code to handle them. :)

Thank you [violet]!

I have another story tree idea too, although not about war.

Also, although I won't need to worry about this until I finish the tree, how do I make it clear that it is a tree?

I tried to post this earlier but the forum wasn't cooperating:

Great job Qaaol :)


looks like a lot of typing :shock:


Will the issue submitting page be changed to accomadate trees or will they just need to be posted here :?:

Don't worry about how to submit them yet. We'll take care of that when the time comes.

One thing I'd like to see is the root of a tree built (plus a level or two), but not fully developed, sort of the choose your own adventures online where you write the next chapter if it isn't up yet, so the tree is built dynamically by all of the players of NS.

Thank you [violet]! This imprimatur for treeing issues will give us a whole new range of options for writing issues!

Don't worry about how to submit them yet. We'll take care of that when the time comes.

One thing I'd like to see is the root of a tree built (plus a level or two), but not fully developed, sort of the choose your own adventures online where you write the next chapter if it isn't up yet, so the tree is built dynamically by all of the players of NS.
'K.

I shall stop after the second or third level and save myself a lot of work in that case.

Well, the con could come later in the tree.
Yes, that is exactly my intent. The same would be true for the fourth option too. I had one in mind for both already.

Will people not be able to dismiss tree issues once they've started the tree? Otherwise you need to be a bit careful about balancing pros and cons our over the long-run: People could take the pros and dismiss the cons.

Well, the con could come later in the tree.
Yes, that is exactly my intent. The same would be true for the fourth option too. I had one in mind for both already.

Will people not be able to dismiss tree issues once they've started the tree? Otherwise you need to be a bit careful about balancing pros and cons our over the long-run: People could take the pros and dismiss the cons.
What I hope would happen is that if the issue in a tree was dismissed, the tree would terminate, and all previous effects from that tree would be lost.

Is that possible?

Well, the con could come later in the tree.
Yes, that is exactly my intent. The same would be true for the fourth option too. I had one in mind for both already.

Will people not be able to dismiss tree issues once they've started the tree? Otherwise you need to be a bit careful about balancing pros and cons our over the long-run: People could take the pros and dismiss the cons.
What I hope would happen is that if the issue in a tree was dismissed, the tree would terminate, and all previous effects from that tree would be lost.

Is that possible?

Probably not. I'd like to see it terminate the tree and either:
1) Prevent the tree from ever restarting
2) Allow the root of the tree to be reached again.

Probably not. I'd like to see it terminate the tree and either:
1) Prevent the tree from ever restarting
2) Allow the root of the tree to be reached again.
:evil:

I hope that it is the fomer.

If you are going to quit the tree after reaping the benifits, you should not be allowed to exploit it again.

Surely you should be allowed to start over after you've run it through once?

Why would issue 4 INCREASE government spending? No war usually equals less spending.

Why would issue 4 INCREASE government spending? No war usually equals less spending.
Becuase you are increasing domestic programs and foreign aid instead. I should add those two on just to make it clear.

Surely you should be allowed to start over after you've run it through once?
If poosible, yes.

---Post deleted by NationStates Moderators---

You know what would be an awesome idea (if hellacious on the admins): interactive story trees. Issues that let a country interact with others, and the pro/con output would be dependant on the actions of the others as well. Butterfly effect in action!

Of course, this is probably too deep for NS... but maybe NS2?

Anywho, good job on this tree! I have to try to write one myself!

I said plausible meaning technically plausible. However, I'd be shocked to see this happen. Go for it if you want, but don't get your hopes up.

Just so we know what we are dealing with when we write issues, what is technicly in plausible about the suggestions? Again, just seeking clarification for when I write issues, or when I see others come up with ofeferings.

EDIT Addition:

]The idea of a story tree is a pretty neat one. The only code change that would be required is something to make sure that once you'd gotten the first issue in the tree, next daily update you got a subsequent one. (Otherwise there could be very long gaps between them.)

This shouldn't be too difficult. Basically, if people are prepared to go to the work of creating story trees, I'm prepared to modify the code to handle them. :)

I assume suggestions for tree of pre-existing issues is alright as well?

]The idea of a story tree is a pretty neat one. The only code change that would be required is something to make sure that once you'd gotten the first issue in the tree, next daily update you got a subsequent one. (Otherwise there could be very long gaps between them.)

This shouldn't be too difficult. Basically, if people are prepared to go to the work of creating story trees, I'm prepared to modify the code to handle them. :)

I assume suggestions for tree of pre-existing issues is alright as well?
Yes, I just got a branch treed off of the old car issue today.