NationStates Jolt Archive

I’ve had this idea for a new issue floating around in my head for some time. But before I submit it I would like all of your comments so that it will be a better issue and stand a better chance to be chosen. Please do not submit it in my place, or steal the idea. Thank you. :) You may notice that the description is a little sting to the NS-UN's workings but I hope you appreciate that.

Feel free to nitpick spelling, wording, effects, etc. I also would like to know what you think. Mods: if this is somehow in the wrong place the please move it.

Can someone tell me if it is possible to have the issue be valid only for UN members? And is there a code that allows for random female names only to be chosen?

Title: Freedom of education!

Description: After the UN passed a rather vague resolution guaranteeing ‘freedom of education’, several political groups in @@NAME@@ have started arguing on how this resolution should be interpreted.

Validity: Not valid for nations that are not members of the United Nations

Options:
[option]"Education should be, like, totally free,” argues 29 year old student @@RANDOMNAME@@. “Having to pay these archaic tuition fees is just preventing me from doing what I really want to do! Hanging in bars all day… erm, I mean, studying.”
[effect] education is totally free of charge
[stats] size of government increases a bit; taxes increase massively, education increases, intelligence increases. The rich-poor gap decreases.

[option]"The government should indeed allow freedom of education", pleads @@RANDOMNAME@@, a devoutly churchgoing parent of twelve children. “We should all be able to start our own schools! I could teach my kids the true ways of the Lord – with government funding of course.”
[effect] churches are starting their own religious schools with government funds
[stats]Religion&spirituality funding increases massively, the nation becomes more devout, intelligence drops a bit

[option]"The education system should be free, free of government interference that is," suggests libertarian editor @@RANDOMNAME@@ “Imagine how happy all those school directors will be if they don’t have to go though all the bloated bureaucracy anymore. I say we give them complete liberty and stop bothering the education system with subsidies and regulations.”
[effect] schools are closing all over the country due to lack of funding
[stats] size of government, taxes, education funding/priority, decrease a lot. Intelligence and compassion decreases slightly. The rich-poor gap increases.

UPDATED!

Can someone tell me if it is possible to have the issue be valid only for UN members? And is there a code that allows for random female names only to be chosen?


1. No idea, would guess yes, shouldn´t take more work than the normal validations. But then, 'only for UN members' would perhaps be too restrictive...

2. No.

[option]"The education system should be free, free of government interference that is," suggests libertarian editor @@RANDOMNAME@@ “Imagine how happy all those school directors will be if they don’t have to go though all the bloated bureaucracy anymore. I say we give them complete liberty and stop bothering the education system with subsidies and regulations.”
[effect] schools are closing all over the country due to lack of funding
[stats] size of government, taxes, education funding/priority, and intelligence all decrease a lot.

Considering the fact that private schools tend to be better than state owned ones, i doubt the results this issue shows are correct :P

I would choose intelligence stays where it is, education funding decreases, taxes decrease and so does the size of government as stats, and as effect 'Only upper- class children can afford a sufficient education, while working class children tend to fail reading the train schedule'

I don't think so, parents with (in most of the cases) absolutly no experience in teaching, giving better lessons then teachers who have been doing it as a job and (in where I live, I don't know how that works in other nations, hmm idea for a issue?) have studied for it.

Back On-topic, I think it's a good issue, not too far-fatched. About the UN thing, I think it is possible, but with minor modifications in the issue itself I think that the issue can work for every nation in or out of the UN.

Re: Angsty, then maybe I should choose a fixed female name right? Something religoussounding... hrm...

As for the effects: I think that cutting funding to education should be 'bad' for intelligence as less people can afford it. Otherwise it wouln't really be a balanced issue anymore I think. However 'Only upper- class children can afford a sufficient education, while working class children tend to fail reading the train schedule' may be an improvement.

Of course, the rich-poor gap could become larger though the third issue. And it could also affect compassion ratings. Thoughts?

Qantrix: you have suggestions for modifications? And I thought it was fun to use the vague UN resolution but of course that doesn't apply to non-UN nations then. :roll:

I think the issue is good, but is slightly confused between school and university tuition fees, which are very different issues. perhaps you should slightly edit answer 1 to make it focus on schools (or 2&3 to focus on unis)

I think there should be an option that accepts that in order to have a good quality state education system people will have to pay for it in the form of upfront fees or a graduate tax. I know that that is one of the main sides of the debate where i come from.

Turn: "@@RANDOMNAME@@, a devoutly churchgoing mother of twelve children."
Into: "@@RANDOMNAME@@, a devoutly churchgoing parent of twelve children."

Problem fixed.

And Der Angst is correct; private schools always do better than public. Also, with a third or more of the property taxes removed, plenty of folks will be able to afford private schools, particularly as, with more people paying them, they will have "economies of scale" and will be able to reduce the per-student costs.

I see no reason to limit it to UN nations; every nation would be appropriate (since I know of no game mechanic for dealing with varying levels of technology---in a Medieval setting, almost no-one gets any education, in a very high tech setting, people might learn by taking a pill, or getting information "forced" into their minds)

Good issue, very good! And limiting it to UN Members (if possible) would be nice as well.

Good points were raised by others, and I have only one thing to add:
You seem to equate 'intelligence' with 'well-educated'. That's wrong. Also, your personal judgement of what a good education is shows here. I tend to agree with your judgement, but still don't think it belongs in an issue effect. So, I'd remove all references to intelligence.

Ballotonia

I like the concept very much. Really, I'd like to see more issues addressing how individual nations practically implement UN resolutions. However, since it seems to be difficult to limit the issue to apply only to U.N. nations, perhaps you should change the wording to something like "A recent United Nations resolution on free education has caused intense debate in @@NAME@@"?

Also, on the matter of public funding, I'd say that public schools are better for society as a whole since they tend to create much higher lowest levels of education, while private schools tend to help the elite but not the base. Most econominsts agree that a well-educated population grants a stronger nation, economically and, perhaps, intellectually.

Regarding Ballotonia's thoughts on intelligence, it's a fact that NS judges intelligence almost entirely on education, as there's not many other things to judge it from. I believe that all issues improving education imrpoves intelligence, and I think that that's right. A well-educated citizen is a citizen that has learned something.

Finally, on the matter of lowering taxes to allow more people to afford to pay for schools, this reasoning forgets very large groups of society. Firstly, unemployed, who do not benefit from tax cuts, but who do benefit from being educated or having their children educated, as well as, for instance, single mothers, long-term ill people and so on. Since many modern world western countries have unemployment rates around 10%, such a policy would remove schooling from a very large amount of people. The only group that would only benefit on it is the already privileged.

I like the concept very much. Really, I'd like to see more issues addressing how individual nations practically implement UN resolutions.

I concur. And I do like Knootoss's proposed issue.

One tech comment. It is possible to restrict issues so that they only apply to people who are (not) in the UN.

One tech comment. It is possible to restrict issues so that they only apply to people who are (not) in the UN.

Excellent! Knootoss, I would urge you to submit your issue if you haven't already.

Yep. I'd like to draw your attention to the XML feeder page (this one is mine) http://www.nationstates.net/cgi-bin/nationdata.cgi/nation=Adejaani

In it, you'll see the "UNSTATUS" one, which, in my case, is Non-Member. Go figure. 8)

Of course, the rich-poor gap could become larger though the third issue. And it could also affect compassion ratings. Thoughts?


Good idea, wouldn´t affect intelligence etc., but definitely other ones...

Also, on the matter of public funding, I'd say that public schools are better for society as a whole since they tend to create much higher lowest levels of education, while private schools tend to help the elite but not the base.

Thats it. Due to less taxes, more money for private schools. Of course, there will still be people which cannot afford them, as you already said it, but it is not a given that all public schools are closed, it`s just that there are fewer.

In the end, i would choose the third option as intelligence increasing.

UPDATED!
mother --) parent

Changed:
-The 1st option now also decreases the rich-poor gap
-The 2nd option now says 'parent' instead of mother
-The 3rd option now inceases the rich-poor gap
-The 3rd option now decreases the compassion rating slightly
-The third option was tweaked for intelligence to decrease only "slightly" instead of "a lot"

Not changed:
-The university/school confusion. It is a good point made but the UN resolution is deliberately vague on this. And free universities are a bit more controversial then free primary schools I think. I want it to be a tough choice.
-An option that 'accepts that in order to have a good quality state education system people will have to pay for it in the form of upfront fees or a graduate tax.' I am always in favour of a middle of the road too, but this is NS: everything is a bit more extreme. :P
-Limiting the issue to UN nations, after deliberation, stats. I see peopel like how it is about practically implementing UN resolutions and I want to keep that element in the issue. :wink:

-As for Education/intelligence: I agree with Ballotonia about that there is a difference, and I know that is is also part judgement but I also see Free Socialisms point. All issues on NS that are improving education also improve intelligence, there seems to be a direct link between them in NS so it is probably best to be consistent on this.
-As for the whole debate on public schools vs private schools: I am not going to pick sides here but what is important here is: is the issue 'balanced'? That is, do all the options have pro-s and cons that make it attractive to choose either one. What do you think about that?

Before I submit I am going have it stand here just a little longer so people can comment on balance. (Or other comments if you have them :wink: )

Meh, i would choose option 3., ideologically, and i still believe irl it would work out positively... but do what you want *blackmails reploid to edit it*

*cough*

Seems great as it is now. There's an option for evil commies like me, and for the righteous cappies, too. Let's just hope that it's not edited to hell by the mods.

SUBMIT IT!!

Ballotonia

I have submitted the issue

*hopes mods will get to look over it somewhere in this century with all those issues being submitted*

Well, if this has been submitted, the discussion is complete.

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