NationStates Jolt Archive

A friend of mine just had his nation deleted. That nation being Brogavia. All that is requested is a single answer to the question of why?

Thank you for your time.

I'm rather curious, too. I just saw him drop off my region page again and I was all "lolwut?" It's rare for someone to be deleted that quickly without a DOS order, which I don't believe was given. At least, not publicly.

He might have been someone with a DOS order's puppet.

He might have been someone with a DOS order's puppet.

I know this isn't true, since it was his original puppet.

When one's nation is deleted without explanation, the most likely answer is that they simply failed to log on within the requisite time frame.

When one's nation is deleted without explanation, the most likely answer is that they simply failed to log on within the requisite time frame.

Considering he just moved to my region 3 days ago, even assuming he didn't log in since then, it's well within the 28 day limit.

No, actually, when someone suicides-by-mod, they generally get DOS'd. Such is what happened in this case.

Wait, how was Binaria suicide-by-modding? I mean, sure, he had a record, and he posted a long chain of images, and that was allegedly a violation warranting deletion, but I don't see how that's SBMing, or warranting of a DOS. Unless I'm missing something.

It appears that I was in error, and for that I apologise to Brogavia.

A similarly named nation, One-o-One, went suicide by mod right after 1010102's deletion and I mistook them for the same player.

Brogavia's been restored.

:fluffle: On behalf of Vascilian Legal Services, Inc. representing our client Binaria, we thank you for your efforts in solving the issue. ;)

It appears that I was in error, and for that I apologise to Brogavia.

A similarly named nation, One-o-One, went suicide by mod right after 1010102's deletion and I mistook them for the same player.

Brogavia's been restored.
Hooray! Katganistan proves once again that she is the best mod.

So, wanna undelete 1010102 while you're in the undeleting mood and I'm sucking up?

Hooray! Katganistan proves once again that she is the best mod.

So, wanna undelete 1010102 while you're in the undeleting mood and I'm sucking up?
Ah, but that was 1010102's error, not the Moderation team's.

Ah, but that was 1010102's error, not the Moderation team's.
But you're supposed to be a philanthropist. :(

Ah, but that was 1010102's error, not the Moderation team's.

True, but was a total deletion truly warranted or justified? I mean, think about your driving. I'm not sure if all states use this, but here in Pennsylvania, we have a point system for driving infractions. After six points, you lose your license, and every infraction warrants a certain amount of points, and a certain fine amount. If this were universally applied, this could be justified. However, it isn't. The amount of points issued - if they're issued at all - is totally at the whim of the police officer. In fact, so is if they get penalized and how much, and for what offenses; it all depends on the officer, what mood he or she is in, how many donuts he or she had, et cetera. This means the actual punishment is unpredictable; it is arbitrary, and could hardly be considered "just."

Now, take a look at NationStates. We basically have the same system here. Only this time, not only do we not know how many "points" an infraction is worth (although we may be able to make conjectures and estimations), we do not know how many points we have accumulated, or can accumulate before being banned or outright deleted. If the traffic situation is just, then this is even further from justice.

Granted, I understand that moderators are often burdened and overworked, and that they are volunteering their time to keep these boards at least under some semblance of order, and everyone appreciates that. However, even as volunteers, they have a duty to remain as just and fair as possible. If the system itself is broken, it is the responsibility of the moderator to aid in fixing it, even if - nay, especially if - it means admitting inaccuracies, or unjust procedures. Perhaps more mods would help, perhaps it simply requires a new system of moderation. I know ideas have been flung around before, some implemented, some not.

Of course, I am fully aware that, technically speaking, mods could do whatever they want, simply because this is a private board and private website. However, I would assume that moderators at least have some idea of justice and fairness, and their desire to keep the boards ordered and fair was why they decided to accept the positions. Therefore, I appeal to this sense of fairness and justice, rather than any technical or legal document, in my argument. Ultimately, any conviction under an unjust system simply cannot be considered valid, and I don't think it really could be argued that we currently have a just system, even understanding how hard the moderators work and do their best.

Practically speaking, of course, I understand that every DOS order and IP ban cannot and will not be rescinded, however, I think we, both mods and NS community, can use this case to further reform the current moderation system into a more just and fair one, and as a sign of goodwill due to Binaria's arbitrary deletion, I ask that the moderators commute 1010102's sentence. I believe, though this action, we can use this case to further reform of the system and reduce controversy and the arbitrary nature of the moderation system.

True, but was a total deletion truly warranted or justified?
You mean after repeatedly and intentionally pushing and breaking the rules after multiple warnings not to and to tread softly?

Yes.

Case closed. Do not re-open.

Have a look at the truncated warning list for 1010102, and you'll see why he was deleted and will not be restored:

Sat Sep 27 19:55:04 2008: #xxxxx, if he breaks rules in a Hataria / Ryou / Steppe Empire thread again, delete him. -- [xxxx]
Sun Sep 28 10:48:34 2008: #xxxxx GAH! Told in no uncertain terms to ignore Hataria, and report any abusive messages/telegrams Hataria sends without reacting directly. -- [xxxx]
Thu Apr 30 20:37:48 2009: Attempting pagebreaking on new forum (http://forum.nationstates.net/viewtopic.php?f=20&t=109&p=1061#p1061) KILL ON NEXT OFFENSE -- [xxxx]
Thu Apr 30 20:44:04 2009: Hm. Can't get a clue (http://forum.nationstates.net/viewtopic.php?f=20&t=76&p=1070#p1070). GORT. -- [xxxx]

Those are just the warnings that were formally lodged in the moderator log. Generally each such warning is preceded with informal warnings and unlogged slaps on the wrist- clearly implied in the first entry where it notes if he does it again he's toast. Yet we gave him several chances after that, all of which were not used wisely. The combination of a history spanning several months and a clear intent to continue breaking the rules led to the decision to delete him.

Maybe if he'll learn to follow the rules, it won't happen to his new nation.