NationStates Jolt Archive

Apparently Jocabia gets annoyed when people say bad things about EA...

http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=14462417&postcount=85
http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=14462433&postcount=89

Pay attention, you moron.


http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=14462393&postcount=346

From the Bush warcrimes thread.

The first two posts were not actionable. The one reported by KoL has been addressed (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?p=14462658#post14462658).

The post directed at me was not intended to be offensive, but sarcastic. At least, due to context of the thread and the history I have with Jocabia, that's how I see it.

As I said in the thread:

I can assure you that it was done in jest, though I realize that it's probably damn near impossible to tell by just reading the post.

Sorry, Kryo, I'd wrist-slapped (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=14462739&postcount=120) on a technicality on the second of SL's complaints before I saw your ruling.

("Borderline post" plus "cranky mod".)

The post directed at me was not intended to be offensive, but sarcastic. At least, due to context of the thread and the history I have with Jocabia, that's how I see it.

As I said in the thread:

I can assure you that it was done in jest, though I realize that it's probably damn near impossible to tell by just reading the post.

Yes, it was absolutely in jest, and I'd have thought that was obvious. Kryo couldn't have known that you and I are friends, though. I would have thought the fact that I was sarcastically saying that the President is not the Commander-in-Chief was a giveaway, but I guess not.

Sorry, Kryo, I'd wrist-slapped (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=14462739&postcount=120) on a technicality on the second of SL's complaints before I saw your ruling.

("Borderline post" plus "cranky mod".)

Borderline? It's borderline to say that people are saying the sky is falling and going on hyperbolous tirades?

I can understand how Kryo might not have known I was joking, but in what world is that flaming? Compared to the types of posts that went around during the elections, this is a serious moving of the line.

I've been here five years without an official warning. I'll be the first to say I've posted and been reported for much worse. I've reported much worse that were not acted upon. I'm just, I'm just shocked.

Borderline? It's borderline to say that people are saying the sky is falling and going on hyperbolous tirades?

I can understand how Kryo might not have known I was joking, but in what world is that flaming? Compared to the types of posts that went around during the elections, this is a serious moving of the line.

I've been here five years without an official warning. I'll be the first to say I've posted and been reported for much worse. I've reported much worse that were not acted upon. I'm just, I'm just shocked.

Not a mod, but - yeah. How is that.. what's it even supposed to be... borderline flaming?

Someone posts something and you say it's a hysterical response - I'm not sure how that gets actionable.

For some reason, this reminds me of the "you people" exchange in "Tropic Thunder".

Borderline? It's borderline to say that people are saying the sky is falling and going on hyperbolous tirades?

As you can see in the thread, I specified that I was referring to the personal insult in the "people like you" phrasing. Very rarely would comments on argument style be actionable.

Had I seen that Kryo had already ruled, I would not have posted. Having posted, and not being able to delete an infraction, I owed her an explanation. The explanation was, "It was borderline, I went this way".

Compared to the types of posts that went around during the elections, this is a serious moving of the line.

As you have good reason to know, some latitude was extended to posters during the US elections. The line didn't go away, it stretched a bit, and it's since snapped back.

I've been here five years without an official warning. I'll be the first to say I've posted and been reported for much worse.

You still don't have an Official Warning, which is a serious penalty given after repeated breaches, recorded on a nation's history and likely to lead to deletion. You got a Jolt equivalent of "warned for flaming/flamebait". A yellow card tells you to watch your step for the next seven days, then disappears: a wrist-slap.

By your own showing, that's been on the cards for a while. You know mods take post history into account. You're not seriously arguing, "I've got away with the occasional rulebreaking so far, I'm annoyed you're calling me on it now"?

Ard, you did what you felt was necessary. I have no problem with it. :) No need to apologize.

As you can see in the thread, I specified that I was referring to the personal insult in the "people like you" phrasing. Very rarely would comments on argument style be actionable.

Had I seen that Kryo had already ruled, I would not have posted. Having posted, and not being able to delete an infraction, I owed her an explanation. The explanation was, "It was borderline, I went this way".



As you have good reason to know, some latitude was extended to posters during the US elections. The line didn't go away, it stretched a bit, and it's since snapped back.



You still don't have an Official Warning, which is a serious penalty given after repeated breaches, recorded on a nation's history and likely to lead to deletion. You got a Jolt equivalent of "warned for flaming/flamebait". A yellow card tells you to watch your step for the next seven days, then disappears: a wrist-slap.

By your own showing, that's been on the cards for a while. You know mods take post history into account. You're not seriously arguing, "I've got away with the occasional rulebreaking so far, I'm annoyed you're calling me on it now"?

Seriously, give me a break. I was referring to the argument style when I said they were hyperbolous, and people, like him/her, were actually making said argument and have been for some time. It's a fact. It's not an insult to point out that similar arguments have been made by people like the poster for a long time. The part that could be construed as insulting "hyperbolous tirades" refers directly to the style of the post.

Meanwhile, if it's been in the cards for a while, one would think I would have, you know, been warned as such. Do you have any idea how long it's been since a mod suggested I dial it back or someone reported one of my posts? This isn't just not close to the line of the elections, which was just an example I used, it's not close to any line, ever, at any time.

I think you'd be hard-pressed to show a similar example of someone being warned for a similar post. I called the arguments in the thread hyperbolous and called out a poster, and people who make similar arguments, for making them. The actual thread is titled "PC Game Companies Hate Legitimate Customers". I don't think anyone would argue that title isn't dripping with hyperbole and it is pretty representative of the arguments and conclusions in the thread.

As far as the "flame", it's a sad day when calling someone a moron for thinking the President is the CiC isn't recognizable sarcasm.

I really tried to act like this was reasonable. Really, I did. I like both Ard and Kryo and I find them to be generally reasonable, so I even asked other posters if they saw this another way.

I searched my recent posts. I went through past mod threads. I tried to find some way to take this as a reasonable attempt to dial back my actions. However, even the warnings don't suggest as much.

Apparently, the behavior I'm supposed to change here is to add a comma "people, like you," and to avoid really, really obvious sarcasm expressed to one of my friends. I'll take something away from this if I can, but, frankly, I can't see what you're trying to correct.

Perhaps in the future, I can get a schedule for what days and which mods are cranky, so I can amend my behavior accordingly. (That, legitimately, is meant to be a joke to lighten the mood. I know I'm ranting a bit and accept that. Perhaps, it's just people, like me, going on hyperbolous tirades, but I am serious about wanting to actually benefit from the purpose of warning and learn whatever behavior it is I'm supposed to curb. It really does appear I need to be more careful about my grammar and to add disclaimers to my humor.)

For the record, that's my last bit on the subject. I know that you can't remove the cards and that you aren't required to give me an explanation. Hell, I've pressed this so hard, it would be shocking if there was any backing down. I know it doesn't generally work that way.

I suspect if the above doesn't get me an explanation of what purpose the cards are meant to serve, then I won't get one. For the record, I didn't say I got away with occasional rulebreaking. I said that I've skirted the lines, and mods have evaluated those times and said it was not rulebreaking (notice the reported bit), but one would think that if after repeatedly putting my toes to the line, it would be a time when I was somewhere near it when I got a warning.

I suspect if the above doesn't get me an explanation of what purpose the cards are meant to serve, then I won't get one.

Based on my understanding, the purpose of the infraction system (aka, the "cards") is meant to be a uniform way of informing posters of rule violations. It also makes it easier to track the number of warnings a user has. For example, the mods when we view your profile, we can click on the "Infractions" tab to see if you have any warnings and what it was for. It's not not by any means perfect but it can give us an idea of whether or not the user is a chronic rule breaker or if they're generally good about staying within the rules.

Re cards: As Fris explained when Jolt made them available, the red and yellow cards are equivalent to a number of common NS phrases that would be used for something of concern to mods, but not yet obnoxious enough to incur a ban.

Re arguments: I did not, do not and will not object to your calling an argument hyperbole, a tirade (rant), or an alarmist exaggeration (eg, "rapidly descending sky"). Of course posters will identify and criticise argument forms. This is a debate forum.

When you mix in "people like you", you switch to a personal mode. If you have already established a negative tone, it becomes an insult. By not saying what "people like you" do, but making clear that it's negative, you encompass a wide range of insult without actually defining the insult. Thus, when challenged, you can disclaim it.

It's unfair, it's provocation and it will continue to make me cranky when it's used for such purposes.

I don't agree, but that really doesn't matter. Things are what they are.

I find the you're a moron for thinking the President is the CiC bit a tad more unactionable, but, like I said, it is what it is. All of my future posts will contain ludicrous and unneccessary disclaimers if I engage in hyperbole or sarcasm and that any references to the obvious fact that arguments are made by people is not an insult to the nature of arguments and/or the nature of people who make arguments. It's less fun. It's disappointing. Things are what they are.

You can close the thread if you like. I'm thoroughly chastised.

As far as the infraction system goes, I really wish there was a way to see one's NS warnings. I basically tiptoe about since the last time I recieved one, I was told that the next one = ban.

Am I alone in finding this incredibly amusing?

Am I alone in finding this incredibly amusing?

*coughs* *points at the big Moderation sign above*

I retract my statement.

I retract my statement.


The Moving Finger writes; and, having writ,
Moves on: nor all your Piety nor Wit
Shall lure it back to cancel half a Line,
Nor all your Tears wash out a Word of it.

-- Edward Fitzgerald.