NationStates Jolt Archive

http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=13718669&postcount=65

When does this cross the line? Someone posts a complaint in moderation and SB joins their thread to inform that they're out-of-line. It's one thing to link to a mod decision or offer up some clarification of the rules or something similar, but when does this go to far?

Obviously, I'm all for self-policing. I'm also all for helping out by posting an offending thread in moderation, telling some poster they're going a bit overboard (if I'm already part of the thread), or offering up a link for other people's moderation threads. I'm sure SB would agree.

It seems to me this is none of those things. This is SB stepping in for the mods.

Not that it matters, but there is a quite lengthy off-site discussion of this and the thread where SB tells Smunkee her joke is "unnecessary". Reading recent posts, they certainly don't sound like suggestions. They sound like rulings.

Please…

Do I really have to type “not a mod” after each one of my posts? I think that since it doesn’t say “NationStates Moderator” under my name and since I don’t have an avatar people can get the hint.

You said that you’re all for stepping in and telling a poster they’re going over board, and yet you report me for doing just that. I didn’t issue a warning did I? I didn’t hand out a forum ban, hmm? It’s because I can’t do these things. It’s because I’m not a mod. I stood up for Ryou when he was being griefed. This is not necessarily something a mod would do, because it's not part of their job. It's something I chose to do because it's what was right.

Your off-site grudge against me is immaterial. You didn’t like my tone in your “list” thread and you’re trying to take it out on me here. Repeating rules to other posters is hardly acting like a mod.

It’s funny, when I post things in Moderation people climb all over me for “tattling,” but when I try to help a situation in-thread I’m “acting like a mod.” I'd suggest hitting the ignore button on me for your own sake, but then again, that might come off as a "ruling" not just an honest suggestion.

If the requirement for going to far is offering a ban, then I don't think there has ever been anyone who has ever gone too far.

As for grudges, isn't that the same excuse other people use when you report them? I pointed out the off-site thing, because rather than bitching about it there for no good reason, I prefer to settle things. I thought some of the posters had a point. So I reported it.

http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=13685188&postcount=20 I call them like I see them. Sometimes that means defending you. Sometimes that means reporting you. It NEVER means giving a crap about you.

As for the ignore button... that also sounds like the reaction of other posters when you report them.

I'm just pointing out what I think might be an issue. If I'm wrong, the mods will tell me. If I'm not, they'll tell you. I'm sure they can handle it. I'm sure you can handle it. And I know I can handle it.

It doesn't take a mod to know what's trolling and what isn't, nor does it take a mod to get that masturbation jokes don't belong in Moderation threads.

I'm not passing out rulings, nor making up my own rules, I'm simply repeating rulings that Mods have already ruled on. AND, it was obviously necessary, since after I posted that people still got on Ryou/Hataria/Whoever's case after the poster did absolutely noting to warrant it.

Mods cannot be everywhere, this is why we have the Moderation forum. It is also why rules are posted. However, as you know, people don't always take the time to read the posted rules. I re-posted them. Hardly pretending to be a mod.

Since when is taking an active interest in the success of the forum a bad thing?

Like I said, I'm happy to allow the mods to actually determine that.

A mod actually entered the thread I just reported before you and made a ruling, admittedly, at about the same time. However, even after the mod ruled, you continued to direct players.

As you can see in my defense of you, I don't think an active interest in a clean forum as a bad thing. I don't take issue with you offering up past rulings. If you have one that says that Smunkee can't enter a thread to say she's also interested in the reply and offer up a joke at the same time, I'd be VERY interested to see it. I seem to remember the mods offering up their own humor at times.

In both threads, you didn't offer up past rulings. You instead told certain posters they were out-of-line. In the thread in question that was the entirely of your contribution to the thread. To be clear, it's things like this I object to "you people calling Ryou a troll for something that is very obviously NOT trolling are out of line." That seems to skate awful close to "knock it off".

And if you're right, well, I'm sure a mod will tell me so and that will be that. As I said in the OP, there was a discussion about this offsite, and rather than encouraging more bitching or making fun of you, I figured I'd settle it. I happen to think you're crossing a line. I'll be happy to accept if I'm wrong. The mods aren't going to decide the ruling because I have a grudge or because they like me, so you have nothing to worry about.

So, do you have any actual mod rulings to offer? Perhaps a quote of the rules? Because otherwise, I don't see the point in bickering. Let the mods decide. After 5 years, they've become quite adept at doing so.

You both sound like two wannabe mods trying to out wannabe-mod the other.

That may not be your true motivation, but it's how you both come across. Maybe you should just accept that you don't have to like everyone on a site to post on it, and just stay out of each others way.

I cannot tell you how tiring it is being griefed for reporting people, being reported for lending a helping hand and sticking up for someone who was being griefed, and having so many people take issue with me playing by the rules of the site. Yes I report things a lot. Yes I do it more vehemently than most. Yes I seem to use a tone that irks a number of people. And yet no one comes to my defense when spammers or griefers irk me, a far more legitimate complaint since such things are against the rules of the site, and no where is there a rule saying I have to report someone with a smile and a friendly slap on the back. I’m fine with it. I’m fine being alone on this. What I’m not fine with is being reported for following the rules.

Mods, if you TRULY think that I’m playing some wannabe mod, trying to flex some sort of unknown power that I don’t really have, then fine. I have no problem with a cease and desist order. I’m not tied to what I do here in any way, I’ve just been here a very long time and realize that it is in mine, and everyone’s, best interest to see this site continue as it is supposed to. I help out where I can. If you don’t need my, or anyone else’s, help, then please say so. However, every single time someone has called my help into question, you, the moderators, have stood by me.

As I said, if I report things I get griefed for “tattling.” If I don’t, and simply stand up for a player by saying what he is doing is not trolling, after a mod already told the lot of them to lay off, I get told I’m “acting like a mod.” I’m sorry Jocabia, but Mods aren’t the only ones who follow rules here, nor are mods the only ones who take an interest in others following rules and playing nice. I’m not a mod. I’ve never said I was or am a mod. I never gave any sort of official-sounding ruling. I doesn’t take a mod to know what is and isn’t trolling. It doesn’t take a mod to know what is and isn’t appropriate. With how much grief I get for reporting what I do, I’m sure if reported everything like that I saw, asking permission to see if silly things are or aren’t legal, the outcry against me would be enormous. As it stands, and until the Mods say otherwise, I’m doing what I should, and I do not apologize.

You ask for rulings? The One Stop Rules Shop has said that representing yourself as a moderator is not allowed. I haven’t done it, so there’s no problem here to speak of. I’m pretty sure by now everyone knows I’m not a moderator. On that same note, it doesn’t take a mod to tell posters who are “out of line” to “knock it off.” They just don’t have to listen to me, unlike the officials. I never once said I was a mod, never once implied that I was a mod, and never once did anything “mod-like.”

And Philosophy, I never tried to get in anyone's way. However, by reporting me here, which he has every right to do, mind you, Jocabia has purposefully gotten in my way, and the way of NationStates' rules as a whole.

You both sound like two wannabe mods trying to out wannabe-mod the other.

That may not be your true motivation, but it's how you both come across. Maybe you should just accept that you don't have to like everyone on a site to post on it, and just stay out of each others way.

That's very helpful, but I'll wait for a mod ruling all the same.

Despite his claim, SB and I rarely cross paths. Ultimately, I don't care what he does or doesn't do, particularly in II. However, as SB points out, there is a value to a clean forum. Putting up a thread or offering up some linked insight provides value. Sometimes it calms things down before a mod can get to it. This is always a benefit. I feel like that's undermined by crossing the invisible barrier. So I reported him.

That's very helpful, but I'll wait for a mod ruling all the same.

Despite his claim, SB and I rarely cross paths. Ultimately, I don't care what he does or doesn't do, particularly in II. However, as SB points out, there is a value to a clean forum. Putting up a thread or offering up some linked insight provides value. Sometimes it calms things down before a mod can get to it. This is always a benefit. I feel like that's undermined by crossing the invisible barrier. So I reported him.

I never claimed we crossed paths often, Joc. In fact, lol, the fact that you referenced II rather proves that. I don't often visit that forum. I said we crossed paths once, recently, and you took offense to me. That's very documented. Not really debatable. Likewise, I've never debated your right to report me. I have to answer to the rules like everyone else.

However I have broken none. The mods already ruled to "knock off the personal attacks" in that case. All I did was say that Ryou posting "I came out with a new type of boat" is not trolling. I think that's a fairly obvious statement, and in no way is me impersonating a mod.

But hey, you said lets wait for a mod, and i agree with you.

*snip*

I'm sorry you think reporting a poster is so personal. It isn't. After all the posters you've reported you should know this. I have been told by mods that I've gone too far in the past, in posts where I was less agressive than you in telling people they were out-of-line. I can't seem to find it, but I'm almost certain it was Fris. I took it as lesson not a slight.

I think you should help when you find things actionable. It's a benefit and I've said it many times. I even linked to a thread where I defended you. That you can't seem to seperate the two issues is beyond me. Stop looking at this as personal, and think of it as an opportunity to examine your behavior. Are people getting angry at you simply because you report them (as you seem to be doing now) or is it possible that you've made it into more than that? Can you possibly see how the language and tone of your admonishments sound like a bit more than friendly advice? And if it's not friendly advice, then you are crossing a line.

And this post is absolutely friendly advice. You're not in any way obligated to gain anything from this thread. But I hope you do regardless of the mod ruling, because given your reaction here and the way you treat others when they have similar reactions, it seems you think you're in some kind of special category.

And Philosophy, I never tried to get in anyone's way. However, by reporting me here, which he has every right to do, mind you, Jocabia has purposefully gotten in my way, and the way of NationStates' rules as a whole.

Look, I'm not trying to get at you - at all. If people didn't report things, then the moderation of the site would be a lot more difficult, and all of us would suffer as a result. Hell, I'm hardly a stranger to reporting things myself.

Here, I think Jocabia's complaint is totally without merit. Jocabia, if you want me to put 'not a mod' after that sentence to make it clear, then there you go. But it's hardly just him - the two of you have been squaring up with each other for a little while now. The fact that Jocabia started this thread doesn't mean that he started the dispute.

And the dispute is a real shame, because you're both respectable and helpful posters, who have contributed a lot to helping with the moderation of the site. I think the real problem is that you're both stepping on each others toes trying to be helpful, when you should be pleased that the other is also there, with the same good intentions that you have.

From an outside perspective, I just find it so odd that you're putting so much energy into criticising the other, when you both want to achieve the same thing - bringing rule breakers to the mods attention so that the site is able to operate properly. So maybe, in my plain, simple, non-moddly opinion, it would just be best if you both put your money where your mouth is, and just stayed out of moderation threads that the other has started.

Can you possibly see how the language and tone of your admonishments sound like a bit more than friendly advice? And if it's not friendly advice, then you are crossing a line.

Jocabia,

How are these two lines any different than me telling someone that what they call trolling is, in fact, not trolling? No where have I been told I have to go out of my way to be friendly when reporting posters or telling rulebreakers that they're breaking rules. And yet you say that if I am not friendly, I'm crossing a line.

This line certainly hasn't been defined by any moderators. This line certainly has not been upheld in the past when other posters have resorted to attacking my tone when I report them or any other time.

Now should I make a huge stink about this statement of your's? After all, it's not your job to define that line, or tell me that I'm crossing it, or even suggest to me that I may have crossed it, is it? And what you said is nothing more than an opinion, not just a restatement of factual definitions of what "trolling" is and isn't, like what you reported me for. Are you acting too mod-ish? Are you "too much?"

I don't think so, Jocabia. I think you stated an opinion clearly and well-spelled and that it was an opinion you have every right to hold. Trust me, you're not alone in holding it. However, at the same time, I don't think it right for you to report me of doing something, and then do it yourself in your own thread.

[QUOTE=Philosopy;13720077]*snip*[/

Look, I'm not trying to get at you - at all. If people didn't report things, then the moderation of the site would be a lot more difficult, and all of us would suffer as a result. Hell, I'm hardly a stranger to reporting things myself.

Here, I think Jocabia's complaint is totally without merit. Jocabia, if you want me to put 'not a mod' after that sentence to make it clear, then there you go. But it's hardly just him - the two of you have been squaring up with each other for a little while now. The fact that Jocabia started this thread doesn't mean that he started the dispute.

And the dispute is a real shame, because you're both respectable and helpful posters, who have contributed a lot to helping with the moderation of the site. I think the real problem is that you're both stepping on each others toes trying to be helpful, when you should be pleased that the other is also there, with the same good intentions that you have.

From an outside perspective, I just find it so odd that you're putting so much energy into criticising the other, when you both want to achieve the same thing - bringing rule breakers to the mods attention so that the site is able to operate properly. So maybe, in my plain, simple, non-moddly opinion, it would just be best if you both put your money where your mouth is, and just stayed out of moderation threads that the other has started.

First off thank you for your imput. I don't really know you, but it is calm and intelligent, and quite appreciated.

The "dispute" as you put it, was when I was a bit less than happy go lucky in responding to a question of Jocabia's in Moderation. I never meant to be rude, but he took it as such, and fired back. I have no ill will towards Jocabia, and I have no plan to get at the guy. I also (obviously) think his complaint is without merit. It's just silly.

However, since this thread is against me and since a moderator could theoretically warn me or ban me for an action reported here (although again I have broken no rules) I am forced to give this as much energy as possible. It's hard to stay out of a thread that is about you, after all.

Anyhow, I'm willing to wait for mod decision if you are, Jocabia.

Quite frankly, this thread and everything in it has bored us to tears. Go back to your forums and do whatever it was you were doing before.