NationStates Jolt Archive

http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=545215

Personal insults are a violation of the rules here, and I expect the mods to enforce them. I am trying to have a civil debate with people who want to call me names, and I politely asked them to stop, to which they continued to call me names and insinuate that my protest was somehow a violation of the rules.

Might want to link to the actual post, rather than just the thread.

EDIT: Here (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=13287745&postcount=64) you go, did the leg work myself, if only to more quickly show how this is not a flame.

Might want to link to the actual post, rather than just the thread.

EDIT: Here (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=13287745&postcount=64) you go, did the leg work myself, if only to more quickly show how this is not a flame.

Oh, I'll help out further. As posted, that was the initial "offending comment"

his response (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=13287795&postcount=77), including vague, but likely not offending threatening mod actions such as "it's my understanding this is against the policies of the forum. You may want to watch your language."

Then my reply (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=13287808&postcount=81), which, while I admit was a tad...rude, seems fairly par for the course here, though I do of course leave that to your judgement. Though, as you may note, I did advise him to bring to moderation, if he thought it necessary.

Then there was his response including using mods as weapons (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=13287859&postcount=99), namely "I hope they don't ban you for too long"

Your protest is not a violation, and I never said it was until after you waved around the Mod card like Vodou Juju and implied that I should tremble in fear of repercussion for making the only point you left me to make.

What else is it when your arguments are soundly addressed (if not refuted) and you continue to come back with the same arguments? You are WILLFULLY (that is, deliberately, with full consent of the will) IGNORANT (lacking knowledge or awareness) of the fact that you're effectively arguing in circles, just to keep the argument going. If those words are deemed wholly inaccurate by the Mods, I'll gladly retract them, apologize, and accept what I deserve. Until then, they are my words, and I stand by them.

Perhaps I am to blame for not just allowing you to get away with posting blatantly incorrect assertions without calling attention to them. I suppose I should just leave the thread, but I was involved in it myself, with others. In fact, one of them reversed my thinking about part of the topic and I agreed to disagree on the rest. Hmm.

Uhm, there really should be a discrete more way to file a complaint here, and without having to be subjected to more verbal abuse from the perpetrator. Here again, I have been called "ignorant", in the actual complaint post to the mods, no less. Can something be done about this guy or not?

Uhm, there really should be a discrete more way to file a complaint here, and without having to be subjected to more verbal abuse from the perpetrator. Here again, I have been called “ignorant”, in the actual complaint post to the mods, no less. Can something be done about this guy or not?
If you wish no-one but the Mods to reply to you, then say so in your thread title or OP.

Though your wishes are noted. From now on I’ll zip it.

Uhm, there really should be a discrete more way to file a complaint here, and without having to be subjected to more verbal abuse from the perpetrator.
Use the main NS menu to go to the FAQ page, and follow the link from there to the 'Getting Help Requests' page...

Just hold your horses. No more until I've checked this out, please.

Okay, one at a time:

Dixieanna, what was said to you was, in my opinion, within the rules. To say someone is wilfully ignorant is not the same as saying you are always, permanently, ignorant. That bit of name-calling was directed to your arguments, rather than to you-the-person. It's a step in an argument, a shorthand way of saying this:


I have set out my arguments clearly, and

You are capable of understanding them/have understood them, but

You keep saying/replying as if you do not understand them, therefore

You are pretending to be ignorant, though you are not, rather than reply to my argument -- ie, you are being "wilfully ignorant", "deliberately dense", or whatever variant fits.

So, while any of the premises may be wrong, as may the conclusion, it's a comment that's to be expected on a discussion site.

(I note that you say you were banned for calling someone "ignorant". To the best of my recollection, that had more to do with a belligerent and flamebaiting tone than with a single word, though it may well have been the last straw.)

The subsequent brouhaha was directed to your remarks about reporting the others to the mods. You have a right to say you intend to do so, but it seems the others thought the way you said it was an attempt to use the mods as weapons in an argument, which is illegal (One-Stop Rules Shop).

They objected to this:
... it's my understanding this is against the policies of the forum. You may want to watch your language.

That's not as mods-as-weapons. It's a statement that you feel they are going beyond the rules of the forum. That's reasonable.

This, however, is where it gets wobbly:Intangelon and NeoArt, you have both been reported to the mods for violating board rules. I wasn't going to take it to that extreme, but after NeoArt tried to intimidate me by claiming my protest was in violation of the rules, I simply had no other choice. Sorry, I hope they don't ban you for too long, it was fun talking to you until you got ugly.

In short, you've judged the offence and set the penalty before it's even been ruled an offence. It's what I called Jocabia on earlier this week. Next time, just stick to "I've reported this". So, okay, those you reported were ...

Neo Art. Well, you've said it yourself, haven't you. A tad rude. And you jumped the gun with your accusation. Your name does seem to keep coming up in this forum. Take it as a hint, okay? Tone it down. Which leaves ...

Intangelon. Seriously, what were you thinking? If you weren't usually a reasonable person and didn't have a long and respectable post history -- as in "history of respectable, reasonable posts" -- you'd be having a day off for carrying a particularly silly argument into Moderation.
If those words are deemed wholly inaccurate by the Mods, I'll gladly retract them, apologize, and accept what I deserve.

Jolly noble of you. Except that mods don't usually rule on whether someone's "effectively arguing in circles, just to keep the argument going", so it's rather an empty offer. Come on, just cool down, leave the whole thing alone for a bit, don't do it again.

Guess what all this adds up to?

Play nice, everyone.

Fair enough. I apologize for carrying my arguments on this matter into Moderation. I did so in the heat of being "told on" and I regret it. It will not happen again.

Well this was exactly the results I expected. I follow the rules, report abuse, and then get chastised for what I did. I was called "ignorant" more than once, and "ignorant" is a personal insult, regardless of the "tone" it is used in. According to the One-Stop Rules Shop, this is against the rules, and I only pointed that out, but apparently that was against the rules as well.

For those of you bothering to waste your time reporting abuse, here are the official rules... if you are a conservative, and you are attacked by one of the regulars here, just suck it up and take it, because nothing will be done about it. And don't even think about retaliating with similar insults, you will be promptly banned, that's how it works. Oh, and if you don't like it, just leave! That's the little system they have going here, and the mods are always going to side with their own over some random conservative.

Thank you moderator, for taking your time to evaluate the thread in question and conclude the libs did nothing wrong and I am out of order. I apologize for not accepting that I am ignorant, and wasting your time with the complaint. I should have realized that being called 'ignorant' is not an insult, and I have no reason to be offended.

Well this was exactly the results I expected. I follow the rules, report abuse, and then get chastised for what I did. I was called "ignorant" more than once, and "ignorant" is a personal insult, regardless of the "tone" it is used in. According to the One-Stop Rules Shop, this is against the rules, and I only pointed that out, but apparently that was against the rules as well.

For those of you bothering to waste your time reporting abuse, here are the official rules... if you are a conservative, and you are attacked by one of the regulars here, just suck it up and take it, because nothing will be done about it. And don't even think about retaliating with similar insults, you will be promptly banned, that's how it works. Oh, and if you don't like it, just leave! That's the little system they have going here, and the mods are always going to side with their own over some random conservative.

Thank you moderator, for taking your time to evaluate the thread in question and conclude the libs did nothing wrong and I am out of order. I apologize for not accepting that I am ignorant, and wasting your time with the complaint. I should have realized that being called 'ignorant' is not an insult, and I have no reason to be offended.

Sitting here and insulting Ardchoille as well as the rest of the moderators for their work (but Ard in particular, as they spent a good amount of time researching and taking time out to write a response to you) is certainly not the way to go if you wish to be seen as a respectful person, as well as someone that we see as a good player (in this game). We're here to eliminate serious rulebreakers and problem-starters. What we're not here to do is to babysit every single thread, every single proposed 'insult', and every single time someone may feel shockingly offended by someone's opinion (when it is them simply stating their opinion, no insults, no trolling, no flaming). If you can't handle being called 'ignorant', then I'm afraid you should find yourself a new home to debate politics. We're not here to slap everyone's hands, and treat them like a child.

When it comes to serious debates, we don't overmoderate, which is what you're asking us to do by stating they should receive time off (which will not be granted, as I stand by Ard's ruling).

Your continued sarcasm and dislike of the fact that you didn't get your way has certainly earned you a spot in the 'serious rulebreakers and problem-starters' category, Dixieanna.

The problem that you fail to realize is the political spectrum of these boards, of which it seems that (a slim) majority of them are leaning towards liberal (my assessment, and in no ways official; consider it my player-advice to you), which means that more people will be arguing against you, giving you more of a chance to respond in such a fashion that will give yourself a warning (which means you should watch yourself carefully, and how you respond).

Another problem that you seemingly ignore is the fact that your assessment of "conservatives are warned more" is quite obviously faulty. Your judgement of the people that you debate against has pretty much caused you to create a bias towards them, in wanting to see them punished. We enforce the rules as we always have, and your take offense to it and call bias, because we didn't choose your side (in other words, we didnt hand out the punishments that you had pre-chosen for us to hand out, as if we don't know how to moderate).

Well, tough luck. Have a nice three days off to cool down, and re-think the way that you come into these forums and treat others. Not doing so will result in further trouble, which I'm sure you don't want. You're standing on a very thin thread.


Edit: On second thought, after seeing your quite extensive warn history, your nation will be deleted, due to your consistent attitude of breaking such rules. Perhaps you will learn to treat others with respect on your second nation, if you choose to create one. Perhaps not...