NationStates Jolt Archive

Hey guys, quick question for the mods that be ;)


In the International Incidents forums, should the United Nations be recognized?


For example, if a member of the UN is engaging in activity that is expressly forbidden by an UN resolution, it's perfectly acceptable to RP that the said nation is in violation of the UN, right?

I've heard rumors the the UN doesn't exist in International Incidents, and I just wanted to hear what you thought.

Thanks!

Thanks, One World Alliance, I was just replying to that in another thread. Here's what I've got so far (DL is replying to the statement that there's no UN in II):

OOC: Not a functioning RP element, however it's existance has had impact. Especially in the matter of those pesky UN gnomes. Technicly speaking, a member of the UN must abide by UN rules even in terms of RP because they are RPing their nation as it exists on the page unless otherwise worked out. I'm pretty sure I've seen the mods make the call that UN regulations apply in II to a nations RP stance, but only when it's something major like this.
Either way this is just sick and not worth my IC time.

Pretty much right. People do occasionally use II to roleplay non-compliance with UN rulings, especially light-heartedly, or to illustrate the (usually devastating) effect of a resolution on their nation. There have also been n00bish wars over nations' votes in the UN, and people's UN ambassadors occasionally make appearances in RPs (such as Ariddia's interviews).

What doesn't happen in II is UN debates. There is a "debate" continued from the UN going on at the moment here (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=544064&highlight=World+Haven), because what they are debating is an entirely roleplayed concept and the subject has been disallowed as a UN resolution. So, effectively, they are RPing that the UN has passed a resolution that it hasn't. However, I agree that that one's iffy under most II players' conventions.

... I'm pretty sure I've seen the mods make the call that UN regulations apply in II to a nations RP stance, but only when it's something major like this.

I'd appreciate any links the historians can come up with.

Actually, I think Vault 10 has summed it all up, also replying to the "no UN in II" statement:

have to disagree. As our nations and regions do exist, so does UN. You aren't forced to join it, you do it at your own will. UN is an integral part of the game which does affect your stats.


That UN doesn't have a magic sky force to rain its wrath on nations is another thing, and one that has been established. Yes, perhaps UN doesn't have powerful agents, and you can RP disobeying it or circumventing it, like Kenny does.

However, when certain nations take that responsibility on themselves, it's their right... and then you better remember UN.

(EDIT): If you RP that you're in the UN, other players can call you on disobeying UN rulings. If you RP that you're not, you may have some other explanation for your stats. RPing disregarding your stats altogether depends on whether your RP partners accept it. Some will, some won't.

thank you! :)

What doesn't happen in II is UN debates.
To be honest, what doesn't happen in II is UN related stuff at all. Sure, you can RP compliance with the UN, but since much of the population doesn't even recognize that the UN exists, it rarely if ever happens. In fact, the current couple of threads there are the first ones of their kind in... Well, as long as I can remember. And when people do RP as enforcing various UN resolutions, they tend to get smacked by other nations (as seems to be happening now, having just glanced at the current thread).


... I'm pretty sure I've seen the mods make the call that UN regulations apply in II to a nations RP stance, but only when it's something major like this.
Only thing like this I can remember is something in the old sticky written by either HotRodia or Fris, and they essentially retracted the statement, saying that it was meant to apply to the RPing in the UN forum. I'll see if I can dig up a link.

My personal viewpoint on NationStates is that whatever I do with my nation is part of its background. I've done some RP offsite, but I consider it part of Romanar's history even though it didn't happen on Jolt. If I join the UN, that will be part of Romanar's background, though my government is corrupt enough that it probably won't obey the laws very well. Maybe I could hire some of the Kennyite loophole experts. :)

I'd appreciate any links the historians can come up with.


I'm specificly thinking of a few ultra-noob threads from way back in the day that came up from some new nations doing all kinds of stupid things. I don't remember the context as I only read the thread for a laugh, but I do remember a moderator poping in the thread, reference to UN gnomes removing the government of the noob-state in question, and fixing all, because what was done violated a UN resolution and that nation was in the UN.

As I am not that active around NS I can't come up with any more recent examples. That was way back around the time Khata or whatever his name was, was banned. And if the forum didn't make me wait 180 seconds between searches I might be bothered to spend time searching for it.

Only thing like this I can remember is something in the old sticky written by either HotRodia or Fris, and they essentially retracted the statement, saying that it was meant to apply to the RPing in the UN forum. I'll see if I can dig up a link.

I don't know what you remember, but I don't believe I've ever made a definitive statement one way or the other. I'll make one now.If your nation and the people you play with want the UN to exist in II, the UN exists in II. If you don't want it, you can ignore it.

If you want to RP in-character in either UN, NS or II about UN actions, you can. If you don't want to, don't post to such threads.I'd say the final choice in any given thread belongs to the thread starter, just like any other RP. Such is the nature of free-form RP.

http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=13178412&postcount=99

I believe this is what was being referred to.

http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=13178412&postcount=99

I believe this is what was being referred to.

It's not what I was refering to. I was refering to an actual RPed post. But this is close enough.

Either way the point of it all remains simple. The UN, on NS, is not the uber-powerful superstate entity it is in RL, not even close. It is however, a legislative grouping which you agree to when you join, you agree to adopt it's legislation.

That, and this is most important, the context of what brought this issue up now is going to be otherwise recognised by the majority of II as stupid, offensive, and so on (At least the majority that read the topic and care to get involved at all), which in the end is the same thing, except with actual RPed reprocussions and not the clean "Can't do that" of the gnomes.

It's not what I was refering to. I was refering to an actual RPed post. But this is close enough.

Well I was actually responding to what Otagia was mentioning. Sorry if that wasn't clear.

http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=13178412&postcount=99

I believe this is what was being referred to.

Yep, that's the one! :D Was the basis for the pro-"UN in II" crowd's arguments for a good long while, which is why I mentioned it.

IIRC, in the past, it was stated that UN stuff did apply to RP in II. I remember that from when I was being obnoxious using the Law of the Sea in an effort to bring attention to it so it would be repealed.

Yes, perhaps UN doesn't have powerful agents, and you can RP disobeying it or circumventing it, like Kenny does.Mental note: Vault 10 knows too much...

IIRC, in the past, it was stated that UN stuff did apply to RP in II. I remember that from when I was being obnoxious using the Law of the Sea in an effort to bring attention to it so it would be repealed.

I also ran an RP based on the Law of the Sea, this time in NS. Remember The Great Dodgeball War (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=361434)? We ran out of steam before we could finish it, unfortunately.

I wasn't a mod at the time, but I knew even then that most people in the two RP forums didn't give a damn about the UN or its effect on anyone else's play. Mine was a character RP designed for several UN regulars. It clearly belonged in the RP forums, despite featuring players who never visited the RP forums on any kind of regular basis.

As the thread owner, I recognized the UN as having an in-game and in-RP event. There were hundreds of other active RPs that didn't. There were also several II threads pertaining to one of the prostitution resolutions around the same time, and thousands that paid it no mind.

It's the OPs choice. It always has been, if not in actual precedent, at least in real practice. I don't see anything changing now.