NationStates Jolt Archive

Greetings!

I wish to receive a clarification on the swastika rule as concerning the flags not of nations, but of RPed movements. Well, of one movement that does advocate violence against jews, elves, tarathians, polavians, moesians, utharians, protestants, buddhists, homosexuals, BDSM, vegetarians, kittens, pop music listeners, etc, etc, etc.

Here (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v77/Namellar/GDT/RosObSopr.png) is a link to the projected banner.

The question is whether it is fine to use it on the forums during RP and actually post it. I have asked two moderators and got two different opinions, and one piece of advice to post a thread here. So here I am.

Thanks in advance!

Yours,
~Jester

The swastika is forbidden as a national flag on the game side.

a) your proposed flag is not instantly recognizable as a swastika, though the roots are clearly there.

b) you're not proposing it as a national flag, so it can in fact be debated. That's the key element.

Initial glance - it's fine. Will hold off on a final say to give other mods a chance to respond.

Some rather old precedent on this question, supporting Fris:

It isn't against the rules to have a Nazi-like nation in the forums. It also isn't against the rules to use nazi imagery within your posts. Just as long as everything is written tastefully (Just don't mix OOC with IC; not saying you have that belief, just making a note), you'll be fine.

http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=10108596&postcount=9 (16 Dec 2005)

Any similarity between Goobergunchia and a NationStates Moderator is purely coincidental.

(a) I dunno about "not instantly recognisable"; it hit me in the face when I clicked the link. But ...

(b) It won't hit anyone in the face who isn't looking for it. It'll be buried in the body of the RP, not jumping around in the index. And RPs without nasties would be pretty much vanilla.

(plus, purely as a player and not at all modly, I wanna see what happens to these excellently eeeevil guys!)

(a) I dunno about "not instantly recognisable"
"Not instantly recognizable" in the sense that it's not a flat black image in a white circle on a red background, that is clearly intended as the symbol of the Nazi party, and therefore the Holocaust. That's what I think [violet] was expressing here ...
Originally posted by [violet] in the Archive (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=4759796&postcount=55):
Whatever the history of the image, the swastika is now universally recognized as symbolizing the evils of Nazi Germany and the Holocast.
... and that's the basis for my argument. That, and the fact that it isn't being used as a nation's flag. Otherwise, this would apply:
Originally posted by [violet] in the Archive (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=4757874&postcount=22):
Reverse swastikas are prohibited, as are yellow swastikas, or 3D swastikas, or anything else that looks an awful lot like a swastika.

I'm no mod but I support your right to use whatever symbol you want. It should be noted that you're using Alexander Barkashov's RNU symbol.

I'm no mod but I support your right to use whatever symbol you want.
Good for you. However, this is not a general discussion forum, it's a forum about following site rules. You cannot make rulings, therefore your addition is not of any great value here.

If you want to discuss the freedom to fly a swastika, go to General and add to one of the 34,935 threads already open on the subject. Or don't, since it's been done to death.

Good for you. However, this is not a general discussion forum, it's a forum about following site rules. You cannot make rulings, therefore your addition is not of any great value here.

If you want to discuss the freedom to fly a swastika, go to General and add to one of the 34,935 threads already open on the subject. Or don't, since it's been done to death.

Pardon me, please (and no need to be snippy). As I've said elsewhere, though I'm not new to Nationstates, I'm rather new to the forums. I was just trying to make a productive comment (referencing that it was the RNU's symbol). I thought that might help you make your decision. Furthermore, I didn't realize this was a mod-only area.

I'm not a mod, but it hit me right away. My advice is to rotate it 45 degrees -- swastikas weren't originally German, and seeing as they were the only ones (aside from a danish runestone) to balance it on a corner...

Furthermore, I didn't realize this was a mod-only area.
It's not a mods-only area. It's a rulings-only area. It's not that we don't value input, it's that your input is irrelevant to the nature of the ruling.

We're fully aware of the the concept of freedom of expression. We're also aware of the history of the swastika - far more aware of it than I ever wanted to be, in fact, as it is the one topic that people never seem to get tired of complaining about. As for any other flags, they're not relevant to the complaint, as only swastikas and flags glorifying the Nazi machine of WWII are at issue here.
My advice is to rotate it 45 degrees
Why? Both Ardchoille and I have already given the go-ahead for it to be used as is. As for the historical perspective, go read the only Stickied thread in the Archive. You'll see that your point has been completely covered in about 150 posts already.

Folks, thanks for the input, but I'm turning this into a Mods Only thread by closing it. If any other mods want to weigh in (and reopen it if you want), post past lock. If no one else responds within a day or two, consider this case closed.

You're making the same mistake I did, South Lorenya -- not whether it's instantly recognisable as a swastika, but whether it's a Nazi swastika. Fris clarified his point here:"Not instantly recognizable" in the sense that it's not a flat black image in a white circle on a red background, that is clearly intended as the symbol of the Nazi party,

And Sinnland (and SL): Moderation is a forum where people ask for and sometimes comment on moderator actions, so it's not mod-only, but in this case there was this limitation:

Initial glance - it's fine. Will hold off on a final say to give other mods a chance to respond

The swastika is forbidden as a national flag on the game side.

a) your proposed flag is not instantly recognizable as a swastika, though the roots are clearly there.

b) you're not proposing it as a national flag, so it can in fact be debated. That's the key element.

Initial glance - it's fine. Will hold off on a final say to give other mods a chance to respond.

I'm inclined to agree with Frisbeeteria's initial judgement. Seems fine to me.