NationStates Jolt Archive

http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=13128521&postcount=16

Fass is at it already! Its the last quote at the bottome.

Actually...its pretty much the whole post.

The context of that argument is someone giving the advice that this person's gay friend join the priesthood and I saying that the priesthood would do him harm in perhaps engendering a paraphilia.

There are many concepts around how paraphilias come into being and afflict people, but the one used in my argument is environment - more precisely a shaming, repressive, pathological and demonising environment directed at a person's basic sexuality, in this case homosexuality.

Now, I doubt anyone can with a straight face deny that Catholicism and the Catholic church are very negative towards homosexuality (and if you can, please take it up with the pope - he'd need it!), and the Vatican (which sets their policies) is fervently so - I maintain that it does furnish this shaming, repressive, pathological and demonising environment I mentioned earlier.

The person I was arguing with claimed that I had claimed that celibacy was the issue - that celibacy was what I claimed would cause the paraphilia - when in fact I claimed that it was Catholicism through the Catholic church that would give rise to the environment that I argue contributes to warping someone into a paraphiliac - hence my comment that I feel Corneliu is misrepresenting as a flamebait, when what is is, in my view at least, part of a larger argument that deals with causes of paraphilias and how recommending that a gay person be thrust into an enviroment hostile to homosexuality is not a good idea.

I also contend that religion in general also furnishes the environment I talked about (and if you want to debate that it doesn't, please do meet me in the thread), hence the inclusion of it in the comment, but the onus is on Catholicism since that was what the OP mentioned. If you want to call that "flamebaiting", Corneliu, whatever - I think that taken within the context it is not.

It may no doubt upset some Catholics (while others will probably recognise the structures I speak of), and some religious people - but they don't have a right not to be upset, just like I don't have a right not to be upset by what the Vatican says and does.

Fass, it was flamebait. I know it is and so do you. Do not try to justify it with catch phrases.

Fass, it was flamebait.

I contend otherwise, if you didn't notice, and contend that you misrepresent it as such - and that's what moderation is for. Not just for accusing, but also for defending.

http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=13128521&postcount=16

Fass is at it already! Its the last quote at the bottome.

Just because you don't like his opinion doesn't make it flame baiting. This is a political forum, people are free to hold opinions, I would think.

If it's his opinion that priesthood can cause negative effects, that's his opinion.

Moderation isn't general, don't discuss threads here, just report 'em. You disagree that it's a rules violation, fine, I didn't think it was myself, but you don't need to be debating it here, that's for the mods to do.

Moderation isn't general, don't discuss threads here, just report 'em. You disagree that it's a rules violation, fine, I didn't think it was myself, but you don't need to be debating it here, that's for the mods to do.

Oooh, I like how you snuck that in while lambasting the giving of opinions by other posters :p

Fass is perfectly within his rights to defend himself. And the rest of us, barring a 'Mods only' warning, can offer more evidence if there exists any.

Look! Now it's a debate about what you can and cannot do in Moderation!

Oooh, I like how you snuck that in while lambasting the giving of opinions by other posters :p

Fass is perfectly within his rights to defend himself. And the rest of us, barring a 'Mods only' warning, can offer more evidence if there exists any.

Look! Now it's a debate about what you can and cannot do in Moderation!

Look! Now it's closed and I'll take it from here.

The context of that argument is someone giving the advice that this person's gay friend join the priesthood and I saying that the priesthood would do him harm in perhaps engendering a paraphilia.

There are many concepts around how paraphilias come into being and afflict people, but the one used in my argument is environment - more precisely a shaming, repressive, pathological and demonising environment directed at a person's basic sexuality, in this case homosexuality.

Now, I doubt anyone can with a straight face deny that Catholicism and the Catholic church are very negative towards homosexuality (and if you can, please take it up with the pope - he'd need it!), and the Vatican (which sets their policies) is fervently so - I maintain that it does furnish this shaming, repressive, pathological and demonising environment I mentioned earlier.

The person I was arguing with claimed that I had claimed that celibacy was the issue - that celibacy was what I claimed would cause the paraphilia - when in fact I claimed that it was Catholicism through the Catholic church that would give rise to the environment that I argue contributes to warping someone into a paraphiliac - hence my comment that I feel Corneliu is misrepresenting as a flamebait, when what is is, in my view at least, part of a larger argument that deals with causes of paraphilias and how recommending that a gay person be thrust into an enviroment hostile to homosexuality is not a good idea.

I also contend that religion in general also furnishes the environment I talked about (and if you want to debate that it doesn't, please do meet me in the thread), hence the inclusion of it in the comment, but the onus is on Catholicism since that was what the OP mentioned. If you want to call that "flamebaiting", Corneliu, whatever - I think that taken within the context it is not.

It may no doubt upset some Catholics (while others will probably recognise the structures I speak of), and some religious people - but they don't have a right not to be upset, just like I don't have a right not to be upset by what the Vatican says and does.

Well said. Try using that ability to more thoroughly explain the matter in the debate threads before having to do it in Moderation.

When you throw out inflammatory generalizations without supporting statements, that tends to piss folks off, and understandably so. The portion of your post the Corny referred to was such a generalization, also known as trolling.

Avoid this in the future, mkay? If you don't, expect a ban.