NationStates Jolt Archive

http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=539949

90% of Fass's posts in this thread are either trolling or flamebating.

It's been dealt with. Hopefully Fass will learn not to bait and troll now that it's cost him two nations.

http://rpstudios.ian-justman.com/junk/CGgoods/Modsig2.JPG
~Evil Empress Rep Prod the Ninja Mod
~Master of the mighty moderation no-dachi Kiritateru Teikoku

So...it's okay to be a Muslim basher. It's okay to go off the deep end in hatred for 'abrahamic-religions' and teh ebil j00s...it's okay to talk about how the gays should stop getting all gay up in our faces....but when an uppity gay man decries religion for being homophobic, it's bannable.

Good to have that made clear.

It's more the history of trolling and flaming since 2005 than anything else.

Not to mention the prior deletion for the same trolling and flamebaiting. Had it been someone with no previous warnings and warn history, they would likely have received a "Knock it off" slap on the wrist sort of warning. With all the warnings Fass has received over the past 2 years, he really ought to know better by now.

Hello, I am your tu quoque fallacy for today.

Report specific instances of trolling violations if you feel them actionable. Vague, sweeping references to things some people might once have said don't cut it. Neither do they excuse other rule violations even if they in fact do exist.

Sorry, Neesika, but they're right. While I don't exactly like Fass's deletion, there is more than enough justification under the circumstances.

And he's not permanently gone either...he can make a new nation. He'll just have to not be so trollish and flamebaity, that's all.

(Note that none of this means that I do not understand why he is the way he is. I understand perfectly. It's not an excuse.)

Sorry, Neesika, but they're right.

Let me just stop you there.

Report specific instances of trolling violations if you feel them actionable. Vague, sweeping references to things some people might once have said don't cut it. Neither do they excuse other rule violations even if they in fact do exist.

Why should I report specific instances? It seems like you folks are doing an excellent job of keeping your eye on posters. You know, tallying up all the 'bad things' they do, so when someone finally comes bitching about something minor, that tally can just be added up to equal a deletion. Fass's posts in that thread, as admitted, would not have merited more than a slap on the wrist had it been someone else. All those 'bad' things he's done before have just piled up over time. I'm sure that would be the case even if no one dropped by here to report him.

And when all of us get deleted for all the 'bad things' just adding up...well...then I suppose this will be exactly the kind of forum we deserve, won't it?

Let me just stop you there.

Why? Because you don't want to listen to a contradictory opinion? Because you're plugging your ears and going "I CAN'T HEAR YOU!"

Come on. At the very least you could try looking at things from the moderator's point of view.

Rampant paranoia

Mods keep a record of all the official warnings and forum suspensions issued to specific posters as a method of oversight, including the reason, the mod issuing the warning, and where possible a link to the specific infraction. Would you rather we not keep such records?

Those with multiple warnings and / or deletions are dealt with more harshly than those without. Fass has made a habit of treating the forum as a place to troll and flamebait. He has been warned time and time again about this. After a while, we figure the warnings aren't getting through, so we move a step up the ladder. He's been deleted as a result.

Again, if you believe there are specific infractions by other posters you're free to report them. Simply waving your hands and blathering about a conspiracy to ignore rule violations isn't going to get you anywhere.

Sin, haven't you brought up a poster's history many times in the past whenever reporting someone? Haven't you constantly talked about it whenever you saw something against the rules being posted?

So why is it you're willing to ignore history now? Do you honestly believe that just because Fass is a FoS--friend of Sinuhue--that he somehow deserves to have his history ignored? You'll forgive me for saying this, but that is just shamefully hypocritical.

EDIT: In fact, I took the time to search for an example, and here's one. It's minor, but it's here:

http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=11472401&postcount=2

Out of curiosity, how was that thread any worse than, say, this (http://forums4.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=539902) one?

Out of curiosity, how was that thread any worse than, say, this (http://forums4.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=539902) one?

I'd say it was because of Fass' one-line replies insulting anyone who disagreed with him versus the OP in that thread's multi-quote replies addressing actual arguments and evidence.

Fass was not banned because of what he was saying. I don't care if he's gay, straight, or the one-legged transexual son of Hermann Goering and David Bowie who believes that all those who ignore the signs of the coming of the star walrus will perish. If he can get his opinion across without insulting anyone who dares disagree with him, all power to him.

But he can't.

It's more the history of trolling and flaming since 2005 than anything else.

I love you Kat! Not only because you are also a native New Yorker, but because you keep your cool under pressure. Also, isn't this a perfect example to stifle the crying of another poster saying, "wahhhh, conservatives are so stifled here, wahhh, ou won't allow me to call liberals 'scumsucking vermin who should be eradicated' from the earth." Sorry for ivading moderaion but I just had to give you kudos.

I support the mod's decision in this. I read the thread in question and yea...Fass was definitely trolling and flamebaiting and flaming as well.

Mods keep a record of all the official warnings and forum suspensions issued to specific posters as a method of oversight, including the reason, the mod issuing the warning, and where possible a link to the specific infraction. Would you rather we not keep such records?

Those with multiple warnings and / or deletions are dealt with more harshly than those without. Fass has made a habit of treating the forum as a place to troll and flamebait. He has been warned time and time again about this. After a while, we figure the warnings aren't getting through, so we move a step up the ladder. He's been deleted as a result.

Again, if you believe there are specific infractions by other posters you're free to report them. Simply waving your hands and blathering about a conspiracy to ignore rule violations isn't going to get you anywhere.


As a civilian I wish to use the Law for Transparency and Access to Information.

I want to see my ‘criminal record’, including all the comments you mods have added.

As a civilian I wish to use the Law for Transparency and Access to Information.

I want to see my ‘criminal record’, including all the comments you mods have added.

No.

who believes that all those who ignore the signs of the coming of the star walrus will perish.
Well, I am going to be unforgiving to those who don't take notice...(sorry, couldn't resist...it makes sense, I swear...)
No.

I got to ask a pair of mods in person about this and all they gave me was a creepy, "We're aware of you."

Makes me unplug my web cam and ball up in the corner rocking gently and whimpering on occasion...

No.

Do we at least get to know if we have one? (I know I should have at least somewhat of a one due to that trolling puppet crap I pulled.)

I got to ask a pair of mods in person about this and all they gave me was a creepy, "We're aware of you."

Makes me unplug my web cam and ball up in the corner rocking gently and whimpering on occasion...

......That would make me do the same I think.

I've just read the thread in question. Fass was baited, too, but I hesitantly agree with the Mods' actions. I have just come to accept Fass' scorching arrogance as just part and parcel of his Generalite personality. My first encounters with his sparsely acerbic retorts made me defensive and angry, but I grew to expect them and even enjoy them.

That doesn't justify sparing him from the forum's rules, but I thought I'd just throw that in as someone who's sparred with him on a few occasions and learned to laugh about it rather than take any of it personally.

Out of curiosity, how was that thread any worse than, say, this (http://forums4.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=539902) one?
Because I am debating an international issue, however unpopular, that is a reality because there are politicians the world over organizing political parties saying the same thing I am and are getting quite popular.

Or, if you are talking about the thread title, well that's not my wording, I just quoted the title of the article. If you follow my link in my OP you'll see that the article I quoted has the exact same title as my OP.


Anyway, I just had to clear that up. In response to this thread, I think people are only hesitant because Fass was a long time poster and NSG personality, however...let's compare this to Eutrusca....who was also a long time poster and NSG personality, but like Fass, simply flamed and trolled one too many times until the Mods realized that, while this may be his accepted personality, it is not acceptable forum behavior.

I understand the mods in both cases, even though Eutrusca's and Fass' political view points couldn't be more different, but goes against anyone talking of a bias.

In this case I fully support the mod's action.

There is a God.

In this case I fully support the mod's action.

There is a God.I'm sure the mods are quite capable of acting with or without everyone's support and approval of a particular action. And it's doubtful that a divine hand pushed the DEAT button.

I do have a question though.


Hello, I am your tu quoque fallacy for today.


Rampant paranoia

Wasn't there a fairly bright-line ruling that changing quote box text was double-plus ungood?

Do we at least get to know if we have one? (I know I should have at least somewhat of a one due to that trolling puppet crap I pulled.)

Doesn't your nation get a TG? It seems I got warned for describing how to commit the perfect murder some time back.

Doesn't your nation get a TG? It seems I got warned for describing how to commit the perfect murder some time back.

Well, yes. I got one myself for putting a video of Nick Berg getting his head cut off by terrorists once. Thing is, how does the average guy know what warnings he has, say, when it's two years later and the 15 telegram limit means the thing was lost a long time ago?

Well, yes. I got one myself for putting a video of Nick Berg getting his head cut off by terrorists once. Thing is, how does the average guy know what warnings he has, say, when it's two years later and the 15 telegram limit means the thing was lost a long time ago?

Well, I can't say it was two years ago, but I still remembered the warning and why, I lost the TG a while ago though. *perhaps should not have put "it seems"*

As a civilian I wish to use the Law for Transparency and Access to Information.

I want to see my ‘criminal record’, including all the comments you mods have added.

No.

Unnecessary as well, because whatever we've added to a nation is what we telegrammed when we warned you, IF you've ever been warned.

Oops, thanks Dinaverg

Unnecessary as well, because whatever we've added to a nation is what we telegrammed when we warned you, IF you've ever been warned.

Oops, thanks Dinaverg

This is probably an idiotic question, but is that only for official warnings? Because I vaguely recall being warned in the far-reaches of the past, but never received an accompanying TG.

I can probably drum up the old Moderation thread link given sufficient time and motivation, not that it's important.

Well, game warnings are always tg'd. Thread warnings usually get told in thread, unless you've done something that gets you a temporary ban. If you get a 1-7 day ban, we telegram you so you know why.

Well, game warnings are always tg'd. Thread warnings usually get told in thread, unless you've done something that gets you a temporary ban. If you get a 1-7 day ban, we telegram you so you know why.

Ah ok, that explains it.

Thanks Kat.

Well, game warnings are always tg'd. Thread warnings usually get told in thread, unless you've done something that gets you a temporary ban. If you get a 1-7 day ban, we telegram you so you know why.

... do you mods also keep track of the KIO [Knock it off] and other Unoffical warnings?

*is worried.*

*is worried.*

Mwa-hah-HAH!!!

Another worm of uneasiness planted in another's heart, another successful day modding :D

For my part, "unofficial" means "NOT official". I remember when I've told someone to knock it off, but ... what was your name again? Are you a relative?

I hate to butt into a thread like this, but I have a question regarding the TG warnings/explination for bans.

During the 3 times I've been banned (I've never been warned, IIRC) I never recieved a telegram describing why I had been banned. I could guess and gander, but I wasn't sure until I asked in Moderation. Is the TG thing relatively new?

I hate to butt into a thread like this, but I have a question regarding the TG warnings/explination for bans.

During the 3 times I've been banned (I've never been warned, IIRC) I never recieved a telegram describing why I had been banned. I could guess and gander, but I wasn't sure until I asked in Moderation. Is the TG thing relatively new?

I have been banned twice and received no TG of why I was banned or anything of the sort.

I rarely telegram for forum bans, as Jolt allows me to leave a reason for the ban in the notification for the player, and I usually state why in the Moderation thread that lead me to the offence (since I rarely venture into General, I don't usually stumble upon violations). Likewise, I rarely make a note on the nation page for forum offenses, unless it's pretty extreme or note-worthy.

Unofficial warnings ("Knock it off", "chill out", etc) aren't noted on the nation, as they're unofficial (except in extreme cases where a player is already a heartbeat away from being deleted).

If a forum warning (and short bans are warnings) is noted on the nation itself, they are certainly factored into deciding if a nation is going to be deleted. Forum warnings that aren't noted are still sometimes considered, especially if a player has racked up several of them in recent memory.

Well, game warnings are always tg'd. Thread warnings usually get told in thread, unless you've done something that gets you a temporary ban. If you get a 1-7 day ban, we telegram you so you know why.

Um. That's not true. Over a couple of bans I got, I never got a telegram.

I rarely telegram for forum bans, as Jolt allows me to leave a reason for the ban in the notification for the player, and I usually state why in the Moderation thread that lead me to the offence

Would this be why, Corneliu 2? I do the same thing, and usually I also leave a note in the forum thread where the subject came up.

The Jolt ban panel has a section that says "Reason to show the user". It's a one-line panel, so you wouldn't be getting a detailed description. I don't usually put any info there on what thread a user was banned in.

Over a couple of bans I got, I never got a telegram.

Apologies to my esteemed colleague Katganistan, but it really varies from mod to mod. As you've seen several other mods state, there is a mechanism to indicate why we're banning as part of the banning process. There are also in-thread and in-Moderation-thread warnings. If the target of the action is actively participating in the Moderation thread, I usually don't bother with an in-thread warning, particularly if it's posted hours later. Seems pointless to spam up the thread with something that was probably forgotten hours or days ago.
If the target is a hit-and-run spammer who has no intention of revisiting the threads he spams, I usually send a telegram.
If the reason for the ban isn't painfully obvious, or the player is getting close to deletion or permanent ban from his next action, I usually send a telegram
If the player hasn't logged into his nation for 22 days but has been active in the forums daily, I figure he's not gonna read his TGs and don't waste the effort.So as you see, there are multiple reasons for sending or not sending a TG.

Ultimately, if you don't know why you were banned, you're not paying attention. Only n00bs really have an excuse for stating "I didn't know that was against the rules." The rest of you should have read (at bare minimum) the FAQ, and most of you have had ample opportunity to read the stickies in the main forums. At least one sticky in NS, II, Tech, and General points you back to the One Stop Rules Shop, and it's linked in the FAQ (http://www.nationstates.net/page=faq#gameplay). It's not like we're hiding our policies in hope of entrapping you.

I have been tg'ed several warnings before. I think its just based on who the mod is that taking care of the situation.