NationStates Jolt Archive

On a rather interesting post that Blackhelm made, to note he has a reputation for reported god modding as you may well now, has made a rather interesting post. As my concerns were stated in a previous post I will just reuse it. As for the post itself here it is.

The response from Chairman Phoenixclaw was short and to the point

I am sorry to hear that.

Almost immediatly after word was given that the oil was not given, five stealth ships unleashed a massive barrage onto the Scandinvan Oil Consortium's headquarters and several other major buildings and work sites owned by the company. These ships had been laying dormant for years now, since the last war Griffincrest had waged with the Scandinvans. There would be no warning as to who fired the missiles, and no way to confirm exactly who launched them. Each vessel would launch their twenty four Tomahwk cruise missiles from maximum range and than zip across the sea, the only thing to show they were ever there being the destruction left on the ground.To note one of my overall concerns is that his stealth ships managed to stay in my nation for years without me even noticing them, as this is my primary concern I find it hard to be believe a nation with a large and capable navy such as my own could just be dopped after these ships just sat there so long and go unoticed.

Post of some of more of my concerns.
OOC: Sorry, to say it but that is a god mod if I have ever seen one and I wil ignore it as there no back up rping, they were not stated to be left in the last war, also did they go undected, how did they the power to launch from the ships after decades of not nbeing used, missles can be traced if they are launched in my space, you cannot go around saying I blew this and this up, and you cannot just go around using forces you do not have. If you disagree that this is not a god mod perhpas a mod may be of use here.To state some of what I am saying is rather unclear, but my concerns are where did they come from, no post exists of them being left after his forces where driven from my nation's land, and Blackhelm's post claims they are untraceable, which is inconsistent with modern technology as it is well known missles can be dectected right where they are launched from.

His counter post:
The GSN, much like the United States Navy, keeps ships nearby potential troublespots on the map. You have been a trouble spot since Hydac I believe, and I have even dropped mercs within your land to support a rebel movement. Instead of carriers, however, I deploy stealth ships, as they are far easier to hide. They are also positioned in international waters just past your maritime boundary.

Also, it was not decades, and these would not be the same ships. Rather, they would be routinely swapped in and out for repairs and your usual vessel check up.

I did not specify what I blew up, only what was fired upon, and the likely effects. For all that I know, you might have a uber powerful anti missile defense system, but the interception of my missiles would be rather unlikely.To note when his forces were dropped in they were orginally stated to have lain dormant which means that they have not been moved, but now he has changed his story to saying they are routinely changed and as such are noticeable. Also, he is kinda of giving me too little credit for my nation's military which is more than capable of defending my borders and any force that might be considered a threat to my security and would be near ships capable of countering the threat they posed if I am attacked as such. To simplfy my statment if they remained in international waters and then launched an attack my territory his forces would be the known cultprits and be meet with a response attack and prevent his forces from simply zipping away without a trace. To specify on this post he states he forces lie on my boundary and would be capable of launching a tomahawk missle attack on their intended targets, yet to not the max speed of a tomahawk missle is 550 MPH, 880 km/h, which actually makes it a relatively easy to track and to counter due to their fairly low speeds to be brought down by something like a Patriot missle.

So to end his changing story and own assumptions makes this post a god mod and I wish for a mod to make judgement weather it is or not. Any such judgement I shall accept, implying though I do reserve the right to rebuttle their arugment if I find it flawed, yet I do not wish to be pushy or mean as I am typing this as 1 A.M. in my area.:p

In future, please link to the posts in question - seeing them in the original context is kinda helpful.

Having found and read the thread in question, I can say that Blackhelm Confederacy's post is indeed godmodding. I'm not qualified to speak on the statistics of Tomahawk missiles and it's possible BC didn't know their speed, but it is very poor form to state "I have had ships floating about your waters since umpty-umpty-zee" without the actual roleplaying to back it up.

It would be fine if BC could point to post X wherein he directed his ships to skulk about your shores in preparation, but as it is I can only conclude that this is the first post in which these ships have appeared.

Blackhelm Confederacy, I'd advise you to retract your post and do something with actual ships moving about instead of pulling them out of an Infinite Bag of Holding right where you need them.

~ Tsarmageddon

In future, please link to the posts in question - seeing them in the original context is kinda helpful.

Having found and read the thread in question, I can say that Blackhelm Confederacy's post is indeed godmodding. I'm not qualified to speak on the statistics of Tomahawk missiles and it's possible BC didn't know their speed, but it is very poor form to state "I have had ships floating about your waters since umpty-umpty-zee" without the actual roleplaying to back it up.

It would be fine if BC could point to post X wherein he directed his ships to skulk about your shores in preparation, but as it is I can only conclude that this is the first post in which these ships have appeared.

Blackhelm Confederacy, I'd advise you to retract your post and do something with actual ships moving about instead of pulling them out of an Infinite Bag of Holding right where you need them.

~ TsarmageddonThank you Tsaraine, as with a mod's word on the matter it is no longer such a debatable matter and I do apologize for not orginally posting the thread link and on the right page, for the other moderators, http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=531456&page=4. Though to note it is possible that he did leave the ships, but that thread occured last year and I have since lost the thread. Yet, I did address this contingency in my prior post here. As well, here is some good info on the tomahawk which is more then a precision weapon, http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/systems/munitions/bgm-109.htm.

Blackhelm Confederacy, I'd advise you to retract your post and do something with actual ships moving about instead of pulling them out of an Infinite Bag of Holding right where you need them.

~ Tsarmageddon

or the mods could turn that Infinite Bag of Holding into a Bag of Devouring. :p

oh and Tsaraine... I sent you a FIY TG. :cool:

In future, please link to the posts in question - seeing them in the original context is kinda helpful.Isn't the little green arrow beside the name in the quote a link to both the original post and the context it was posted in?

Yeah, I didn't know that! JuNii pointed it out via telegram. :)

~ Tsar the Mod

I still believe it is perfectly feasible for those ships to be there. The USN keeps ships off the coast of areas that it believes to be trouble spots, and I do not see why I cannot do the same, especially since I have already been in a war with this guy twice.

It's not so much a matter of feasibility as it is etiquette; imagine if the Scandivans or someone were to post something like this;

"Osama Hussein had been in the Blackhelm Confederacy since the last war, waiting for the call to Jihad, slowly smuggling in the enriched uranium to make a nuclear warhead. Now Grand Ayatollah Saddam Bin Laden had called him on his cellphone to tell him that the Day of Judgment was at hand. Osama took the train downtown to the middle of Blackhelm City, right outside Parliament, and blew himself up."

This would be godmodding in the sense that it's stating that your police, secret service, and what have you are utterly incompetent. What you're doing with your stealth ships is just the same; stating that the Scandivans' navy is utterly incompetent (in that he can't find X number of ships which have been sailing about in his waters for X number of years). I'm sure he disagrees.

It's not so much a matter of feasibility as it is etiquette; imagine if the Scandivans or someone were to post something like this;

"Osama Hussein had been in the Blackhelm Confederacy since the last war, waiting for the call to Jihad, slowly smuggling in the enriched uranium to make a nuclear warhead. Now Grand Ayatollah Saddam Bin Laden had called him on his cellphone to tell him that the Day of Judgment was at hand. Osama took the train downtown to the middle of Blackhelm City, right outside Parliament, and blew himself up."

This would be godmodding in the sense that it's stating that your police, secret service, and what have you are utterly incompetent. What you're doing with your stealth ships is just the same; stating that the Scandivans' navy is utterly incompetent (in that he can't find X number of ships which have been sailing about in his waters for X number of years). I'm sure he disagrees.

But that is not what I am saying. I stated in my post that the ships were in international waters, just past his maritime boundary, effectively out of the Scandinan naval jurisdiction.

I am sorry to hear that.

Almost immediatly after word was given that the oil was not given, five stealth ships unleashed a massive barrage onto the Scandinvan Oil Consortium's headquarters and several other major buildings and work sites owned by the company. These ships had been laying dormant for years now, since the last war Griffincrest had waged with the Scandinvans. There would be no warning as to who fired the missiles, and no way to confirm exactly who launched them. Each vessel would launch their twenty four Tomahwk cruise missiles from maximum range and than zip across the sea, the only thing to show they were ever there being the destruction left on the ground.

Where does it say that you were outside his waters? This is stupid. You are just trying to overpower someone so they give in. You are not being resonable. I would suggest that the moderators delete your post. Then you either start over, or go somewhere else. But that's just my opinion...

you know how much heat made when firing twenty four Tomahwks a lot and easy picked up by sat

THe issue here isn't the missiles, as they can be easily detected and destroyed. Also, he never did say what the missiles did, only that they were launched at specific targets. The issue is about the ships being there for years, These ships had been laying dormant for years now,, not replaced or switched, don't change your story. This is simple god-modding by someone who has no respect for why the NationStates forum was started. Either be resonable and play fair, or get out.

Where does it say that you were outside his waters? This is stupid. You are just trying to overpower someone so they give in. You are not being resonable. I would suggest that the moderators delete your post. Then you either start over, or go somewhere else. But that's just my opinion...

I'm not seeing anything that violates site ToS here, so I can't see why any posts would be deleted or warnings issued. Any opinions we give are basically from the player's level; i.e. what we might accept in the course of a RP or whatever else. What each individual player chooses to accept or ignore in an RP is his own business, and it will only become ours if it becomes spam or trolling (it's happened).

I, for one, would probably make a general armed forces deployment record/schedule, subscribe to it, and edit as necessary. It's not a stretch to assume certain elements of one's Navy might hover around certain areas (it happens all the time in real life), but that shouldn't give one a license to decide aribitrarily where these locations are once it's convenient to them. Some military protocols, no matter how minute, should always be described before or as they happen. Taking action retroactively is a cheap way to present your opponent with a bogus fait accompli and gives its wielder an unreasonable advantage.

if you picked them been firied you see the ships which means this
than zip across the sea, the only thing to show they were ever there being the destruction left on the ground.
be false

and no resupply for years as well by the looks of it too

But that is not what I am saying. I stated in my post that the ships were in international waters, just past his maritime boundary, effectively out of the Scandinan naval jurisdiction.As well, my naval vessals have as much right to be in international waters as you do and the moment an attack is launched all neutrality given by international waters is lost to you and I have every right to attack any vessal belonging to Griffincrest. Also, in your orginal post there was nothing about them being in international waters. lol.

It's not so much a matter of feasibility as it is etiquette; imagine if the Scandivans or someone were to post something like this;

"Osama Hussein had been in the Blackhelm Confederacy since the last war, waiting for the call to Jihad, slowly smuggling in the enriched uranium to make a nuclear warhead. Now Grand Ayatollah Saddam Bin Laden had called him on his cellphone to tell him that the Day of Judgment was at hand. Osama took the train downtown to the middle of Blackhelm City, right outside Parliament, and blew himself up."

This would be godmodding in the sense that it's stating that your police, secret service, and what have you are utterly incompetent. What you're doing with your stealth ships is just the same; stating that the Scandivans' navy is utterly incompetent (in that he can't find X number of ships which have been sailing about in his waters for X number of years). I'm sure he disagrees.Thank you greatly, to all mods, as you all work your best in order to make the NS experince the most pleasent for everybody and also do a darn good job.

Bloody brillant by the way as I had a good luagh just reading the example in your post.

As well, my naval vessals have as much right to be in international waters as you do and the moment an attack is launched all neutrality given by international waters is lost to you and I have every right to attack any vessal belonging to Griffincrest. Also, in your orginal post there was nothing about them being in international waters. lol.

In my rebuttal to you there was. And your ships have no right to do anything to mine in international waters without a war given. Unless your ships are tailing mine, than they would likely not be able to attack them. Also, you are taking the dormant line far to literally, no ship is left at sea for years, and I said in my earlier rebuttal that they are routinely alternated.

And your ships have no right to do anything to mine in international waters without a war given.

By the same logic, your ships shouldn't be attacking him unless there is war declared... way to be defeated by your own logic.

As this isn't a Moderator issue, take it to telegrams. Or an OOC thread or something.