NationStates Jolt Archive

To: The Moderation Team

From: Vetaka (The Free Dominion of Vetaka)

Subject:

Moderation Requested regarding the (MCSATN) Aerial Denial Grid Network System and the OBSAT System

Overall Question:

To myself and to many other NS Players the MCSATN System is the same as the OBSAT System. Would the NS moderators be able to establish their position?

Background:

I as the NS Player of Vetaka have designed and built the OBSAT Forum as described within this Thread:

http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=521785

It should be noted that the OBSAT Thread was posted on the 24-03-2007, 10:59 PM. I as the player of Vetaka designed and built the system before I joined NS and have researched the System and its Technologies for the past 12 months. I began to sell the technology and subsequently refused to sell it to the nation of FreeAngola as a result FreeAngola then went on to subsequently produce a system that was exactly the same as OBSAT as he demonstrates here. If you read the OBSAT Thread and then the MCSATN Thread they read more or less the same:

http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=526758

I accept that it is possible for him to design a system similar to OBSAT what I refuse to accept is that he has launched his system within 1 hour of me refusing him OBSAT Technology. Even in IC he would be unable to do it as less than 1 NS Month before he was applying for the OBSAT Network. I appeal to the moderators to intervene or make a decsion upon the situation. If you require more information please do not hesitate to contact me.

Vetaka

This is worthy of moderator attention? :rolleyes:

In response to Vetaka´s attack i will now defend myself in front of the moderators,

This is Vetaka´s answer:

Moderation Requested regarding the (MCSATN) Aerial Denial Grid Network System and the OBSAT System

Overall Question:

To myself and to many other NS Players the MCSATN System is the same as the OBSAT System. Would the NS moderators be able to establish their position?

Background:

I as the NS Player of Vetaka have designed and built the OBSAT Forum as described within this Thread:

http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=521785

It should be noted that the OBSAT Thread was posted on the 24-03-2007, 10:59 PM. I as the player of Vetaka designed and built the system before I joined NS and have researched the System and its Technologies for the past 12 months. I began to sell the technology and subsequently refused to sell it to the nation of FreeAngola as a result FreeAngola then went on to subsequently produce a system that was exactly the same as OBSAT as he demonstrates here. If you read the OBSAT Thread and then the MCSATN Thread they read more or less the same:

http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=526758

I accept that it is possible for him to design a system similar to OBSAT what I refuse to accept is that he has launched his system within 1 hour of me refusing him OBSAT Technology. Even in IC he would be unable to do it as less than 1 NS Month before he was applying for the OBSAT Network. I appeal to the moderators to intervene or make a decsion upon the situation. If you require more information please do not hesitate to contact me.

Vetaka


My Answer:
To respond to Vetaka´s overall question i will simply ask this,was BMW prohibited from creating cars since Mercedes had created them?Following the same footsteps as Israel did when they were placed a UN Embargo,i simply created a similiar system that functions in a similar way to Vetaka´s but it does not use any of the same components nor does it use Vetaka´s copyrighted material,since no one would sell an identical functioning system for the defense of my nation

Thank You

This is worthy of moderator attention? :rolleyes:

My system is completely different than his,it just serves the same purpose,and he is acusing me of theft,i hope you understand my situation

Thank You

I suppose you folks are incapable of boycotting ic'ly, or at worst, ingoring? This sort of thing goes on all the time to one degree or other. Poor rp'ing etiquette can be handled in various ways, none of which require a moderator to come in and police your rp - which they've repeatedly stated they won't do.

He was the one who wanted a "legal" battle,i just want the system for my private use,and since he doesnt sells me his i made a completely new defense system for myself which serves the same purpose but is better than his

This is worthy of moderator attention? :rolleyes:

Yes I reckon so. I have spent a year on OBSAT. My arguement is not that he has stolen it as thats plain to see my arguement is this is a clear disregard for IC Timeline. Freeangola got rejected from buying OBSAT for his disrespect 1 hour later he releases his system. My arguement is how that can be justified IC'ly?

Yes I reckon so. I have spent a year on OBSAT. My arguement is not that he has stolen it as thats plain to see my arguement is this is a clear disregard for IC Timeline. Freeangola got rejected from buying OBSAT for his disrespect 1 hour later he releases his system. My arguement is how that can be justified IC'ly?

And how do you know that Armament Sales International wasn´t secretly building it,because FreeAngola was afraid you were going to turn down their proposal or that FreeAngola didnt want to be dependent on a foreign military contractor for its national defence system?Do you have spies on our Government to know that?

Yes I reckon so. I have spent a year on OBSAT. My arguement is not that he has stolen it as thats plain to see my arguement is this is a clear disregard for IC Timeline. Freeangola got rejected from buying OBSAT for his disrespect 1 hour later he releases his system. My arguement is how that can be justified IC'ly?

This seems like something that should be settled outside of moderation since it's about your technologies and whose has the right to which.

You can say what you want to justify something IC'ly.

And how do you know that Armament Sales International wasn´t secretly building it,because FreeAngola was afraid you were going to turn down their proposal or that FreeAngola didnt want to be dependent on a foreign military contractor for its national defence system?Do you have spies on our Government to know that?

umm, because you only applied about 1 hour before he rejected you. Thus, 2 monthes to develop. ooohhh, thats a lot of difference.

Fair Enough. Thank you for your time. Ill respond to the system IC'ly

1stAnswer-To respond to Vetaka´s overall question i will simply ask this,was BMW prohibited from creating cars since Mercedes had created them?Following the same footsteps as Israel did when they were placed a UN Embargo,i simply created a similiar system that functions in a similar way to Vetaka´s but it does not use any of the same components nor does it use Vetaka´s copyrighted material,since no one would sell an identical functioning system for the defense of my nation

2ndAnswer-And how do you know that Armament Sales International wasn´t secretly building it,because FreeAngola was afraid you were going to turn down their proposal or that FreeAngola didnt want to be dependent on a foreign military contractor for its national defence system?Do you have spies on our Government to know that?

umm, because you only applied about 1 hour before he rejected you. Thus, 2 monthes to develop. ooohhh, thats a lot of difference.

I said that we were secretly developing it for many years

I said that we were secretly developing it for many years

So you basically Godmodded that you were designing it for years after he rejected you?

Still. Not something that I would do, but not something that the moderators should be brought into...

I said that we were secretly developing it for many years

Think of it this way, what you do if went out and posted something simmilar and you said I stole it, and then I said I was devoloping it for years?

We don't police roleplay. We police how people treat each other. If godmoding were a real moderation-worthy offense about 90% of the roleplay boards (including RP-involved moderators) would be in a world of hurt because free-form roleplay is all about what someone can get away with it.

So far, you guys haven't flamed each other or broken any real rules yet. You deserve kudos; you both feel wronged (one by feeling his technology's been nicked, the other by being accused of wrongly nicking) but you've kept it civil. That being said, this is something for you guys to figure out, rationally, on your own with level head and clear conscience. Very few ideas on these boards are properly original and despite the 'copyright' craze a few years back ("OMG I COPYRIGHTED THE F-22 J00 CAN'T HAVE IT!!!"). Either deal with it ICly--"hey, you stole our technology"--which could include, say, leaks and spies and whatnot, or deal with it OOCly with ignores or whatever. Just keep it civil.

Copyright: Users of Nationstates own the copyright to everything they post here under international law, assuming it's copyrightable material in the first place and belongs to them.

The legal section only grants the site's Admins the licenses they need to store your material and make it viewable on someone else's computer. 'Royalty-free' means you cannot charge them for doing so.

Were you to find someone had, for example, stolen your Nationstates weapon designs and used them in a movie or a line of toys, you as the copyright holder would still be fully entitled to take action against them. Putting something up in our forum does not remove your right of copyright ownership.
It's doubtful you could file action if someone went so far as to actually build, say, an NS-designed tank, because the description the user provides is not exhaustive enough for 'industrial application' and would require massive additional work on behalf of the tank-builder.

On the other hand, if another user steals your designs [and that would be either using images without your permission or reproducing large portions of text unaltered], that is simple trolling and bad RP. If you point the moderators at the thread, they'll tell them to knock it off.

Characters are covered by the same rules as technology; copying one directly and entirely is trolling. This does not, however, mean any of the four million people with characters called 'Riddick' could have any action taken on that basis alone; it's only if someone reproduces a whole character and adds nothing or very, very little of their own, and that character is actually theirs to begin with.
The moderation staff wouldn't take action, for example, if two people had Darth Vader because they both nicked it from Star Wars to begin with.

Quoting posts in replies does not require copyright permission, since the 'fair use' part of copyright law allows reproduction of copyrighted works for purposes of criticism or commentary.



I would like to highlight this point here, once again FreeAngola has annoyed people and this is the second thread in moderation today complaining about his attitude. He's already been officially warned, if this was on the Draftroom or Lineart he would of been banned now and when Hataria ripped Quester's Hood Super Capital he was reprimanded here for the copying of its design.

I would like to highlight this point here, once again FreeAngola has annoyed people and this is the second thread in moderation today complaining about his attitude.And he's recanted. At this point, there's little left than to wag a finger at Vetaka for coming close to Mods-as-weapons for his little threat (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=12645064&postcount=2).

He's already been officially warned, if this was on the Draftroom or LineartIf it was the surface of the sun, he'd be burned to a crisp. We don't tell the Draftroom or Lineart how to patrol themselves, please don't presume to tell us.

when Hataria ripped Quester's Hood Super Capital he was reprimanded here for the copying of its design.Different situations are sometimes, you know, different, and thus have different results. Regardless, FreeAngola flinched and backpedaled. No sense in dragging this out.

I disagree with your point about using the mods as a weapon, In my opinion Vetaka was very civilised in the way he handled the situation offering FreeAngola the choice to either delete the topic and admit that he had copied the design or for moderator action to be taken. If that accounts as using the mods as a weapon does this forum even serve a purpose for people posting requests for moderation?

offering FreeAngola the choice to either delete the topic and admit that he had copied the design or for moderator action to be taken.Something that is impossible for FreeAngola to do. He couldn't have deleted that thread any more than you can delete this one.

If that accounts as using the mods as a weapon does this forum even serve a purpose for people posting requests for moderation?Well, this forum is a forum. That thread was a thread. Surely you can see the difference between reporting something here and posting in someone's thread with a deadline for action. And not just a deadline, but a one hour deadline. When we -- the people who actually have the authority to issue ultimatums -- issue deadlines, we tend to give people at least a day. Not only was his demand unreasonable, it was far beyond the bounds of what is appropriate for a player.

That being said, do note that I said "coming close" and "wag a finger". While more than a player should do, and while it carried the tone of "Do what I say or else I'll make a Mod smack you", it wasn't a total violation.

Which is good for Vetaka. Using the Mods as a weapon usually results in instant deletion.

Something that is impossible for FreeAngola to do. He couldn't have deleted that thread any more than you can delete this one.

Well, this forum is a forum. That thread was a thread. Surely you can see the difference between reporting something here and posting in someone's thread with a deadline for action. And not just a deadline, but a one hour deadline. When we -- the people who actually have the authority to issue ultimatums -- issue deadlines, we tend to give people at least a day. Not only was his demand unreasonable, it was far beyond the bounds of what is appropriate for a player.

That being said, do note that I said "coming close" and "wag a finger". While more than a player should do, and while it carried the tone of "Do what I say or else I'll make a Mod smack you", it wasn't a total violation.

Which is good for Vetaka. Using the Mods as a weapon usually results in instant deletion.

With respects moderators I never meant for me saying I was going to the moderators to be weapon in anyway neither was it intended to be a threat. I simply said it to try and get a resonable reponse from FreeAngola and I brought it to the moderations to, Get a Moderators Position on the Subject as you are the most experienced of the NS Players.

You made your position clear on the subject and as such I respect and understood it. With the position clear I launched In Character Responses. So again I make this clear although my tone may of been threatening I did not use you "Moderation" as a weapon against FreeAngola heck if I wasnt already at War id of destroyed the system with OBSAT designed Anti-Sat weaponary.

My deepest apologies for my tone.

Vetaka

My deepest apologies for my tone.Sat problem resolved, finger waved. Looks like we're done here.