NationStates Jolt Archive

Like take this post: http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=11866239&postcount=26

He hypothetically "hopes" that some people would get a "beating." Okay, so what if I hypothetically hope that people like him get a beating?

I'm just curious as to where the line is drawn?

Its starting to seem that the more offensive and trollish a poster is, the more he is allowed to get away with, because the moderation policy is afraid of looking unfair or intolerant.

Well, there's no reason to tolerate trollishness. He is obviously posting threads designed purely to get the most reactions. He ignores the most logical points, contradicts his own - where does it stop? I mean do you HONESTLY believe he is arguing AGAINST fascism (as he claims)? He's the one who made a pro-1984 and pro-slavery thread! He'll take whatever view pisses the most people off.

Its starting to seem that the more offensive and trollish a poster is, the more he is allowed to get away with, because the moderation policy is afraid of looking unfair or intolerant.
I just spotted this again. T'was originally posted about 3 years ago. Seems very relevant.
Originally Posted by [violet]
One thing online games always struggle with is permitting unruly behaviour. Any game that wants to provide even a halfway decent simulation of real life needs to allow players to act in ways that are not "nice" -- e.g. allow a tougher player to pick on a weaker one, or pursue tactics that the community considers underhanded. After all, this is what happens in the real world, and the alternative is creating a kind of super-sanitized fantasy world, where every single citizen behaves nicely. Such a world is newbie-friendly but uninteresting, stagnant, and repressive for advanced players.

When online games try to permit unruly behavior, though, they suffer from the "God effect", whereby rather than citizens attempting to sort out their own problems, they appeal to a higher power -- moderators or admin. If mods and admin are too interventionist, this appeal becomes the first resort of all citizens who think they've been hardly done by, and the super-santized world emerges.

In NS, we tend to permit a lot of unruly behaviour, forcing players to construct their own set of laws defining what's permissable, and their own system of justice to (attempt to) enforce it. This should provide a better, more interesting simulation. But it isn't easy, because players need to be weaned off their dependence on the higher power.
I think it's safe to say that MeansToAnEnd is destined to cross the line of acceptable behavior, and will probably end up joining the ranks of the permanently undesirable. There's no question that he prefers unpopular opinions and provocative posts. However ... at present, he's not crossed that line. Taken as an aggregate, he's unquestionably pushing the troll line, and we've forced him back a couple times. He did learn to mitigate his behaviour to stay within the letter of the law. The ability to learn and adapt is something the true troll rarely exhibits.

Right now, we're suffering from another rash of what I call the anti-racists - people who report any racist or Nazi or white power nations, and shout in tones of high dudgeon that such behavior should not be allowed. Well, neither the world nor this site work that way. We're not the political correctness police, nor do we want that role. While I personally may find certain positions abhorrent, I'll continue to do my modly duty and defend their right to hold those positions. That's what Max and [violet] want, and that's what they'll get.

Meh. Well,


When online games try to permit unruly behavior, though, they suffer from the "God effect", whereby rather than citizens attempting to sort out their own problems, they appeal to a higher power -- moderators or admin. If mods and admin are too interventionist, this appeal becomes the first resort of all citizens who think they've been hardly done by, and the super-santized world emerges.

I guess I wouldn't have a problem if it truly was 'anything goes.' Like, if I was permitted to openly flame someone constantly, use certain words, etc.

But generally, I'm not. What's left? Debating logic with someone who is completely illogical, whose only consistency is $garner_negative_response? That's not very 'real world' either. In the real world, debate is not the answer to very much, if anything.

Meh. Well,



I guess I wouldn't have a problem if it truly was 'anything goes.' Like, if I was permitted to openly flame someone constantly, use certain words, etc.

But generally, I'm not. What's left? Debating logic with someone who is completely illogical, whose only consistency is $garner_negative_response? That's not very 'real world' either. In the real world, debate is not the answer to very much, if anything.

In the real world, there are people we hang up on when they call, and we walk away from if they try to engage us and we know we don't want to deal with them.

In the real world, there are people we hang up on when they call, and we walk away from if they try to engage us and we know we don't want to deal with them.

Sure, and also we can say things to them like, "You're a loud-mouthed ass-raping motherfucker, get the fuck off my telephone NOW." But we can't, presumably, go that far here on this forum - so NSG is, whether that's an ideal or not, 'sanitized' to that degree.

It's not, in light of that, far-fetched to expect more sanitization -- or less, if that's the direction preferred.

Frankly I'd be happy with no sanitization whatsoever - no one would have to worry about crying to the "PC police" or violating some specific rule about anything anytime.

In the real world, it's possible to randomly punch strangers in the stomach. What stops us from doing this? The fact that we're not assholes, that's what.There are assholes in real life who spout off about minorities and what-have-you; they live on day time "talk" shows. If you wish to be just as much of an asshole by shouting back, you're welcome too. However, you need to consider where you are.

If you're screaming obscenities at the top of your lungs in the middle of a school, you can expect to have some problems, regardless of your "freedom of speech". Likewise, if you do so here, you'll have problems, as this site is viewed in schools.

If someone wants to yammer about Nazi ideals, you can either debate them or ignore them. Hurling invective like an asshole is not one of your options. If you are incapable of doing either, then you have far more serious problems than your continued presence on an internet game.

For the last time: Unpopular opinions are not trolling. The fact that more and more people in the General forum cannot grasp that causes me no small amount of concern, and makes me worry that it's turning into a DU-esque echo chamber.

There are assholes in real life who spout off about minorities and what-have-you; they live on day time "talk" shows. If you wish to be just as much of an asshole by shouting back, you're welcome too. However, you need to consider where you are.

If you're screaming obscenities at the top of your lungs in the middle of a school, you can expect to have some problems, regardless of your "freedom of speech". Likewise, if you do so here, you'll have problems, as this site is viewed in schools.

If someone wants to yammer about Nazi ideals, you can either debate them or ignore them. [/quote]

If someone was screaming about those Nazi ideals at the top of their lungs in a school, how long do you think they'd be allowed to do so? In fact, most schools I've been at tend to frown upon inciting race hatred and violence against minorities.


For the last time: Unpopular opinions are not trolling. The fact that more and more people in the General forum cannot grasp that causes me no small amount of concern, and makes me worry that it's turning into a DU-esque echo chamber.

Whether the term is "troll," or "flamebait," or just inappropriate, I'm not sure.

But one thing I am sure is I'm not just reporting simply an "unpopular opinion." Many trolls claim persecution, victimhood, and claim to be "just challenging a popular viewpoint." But there is a line between "unpopular opinion" and "threads/posts designed to illicit negative responses and attention."

Anyway, I've had my say, I'll stop debating in the mod forum.