NationStates Jolt Archive

Not sure of the right place for this, so I figured this is closest.

Being new here, And with the mods not nonly being mods, but active participants as well, the initial perception (As somebody who is admittedly new, and not familiar with local convention) is when a mod is stating a pure player statement, yet the poster is titled as a mod, it is very easily percieved as being an "offical" view.

Whilst I certainly recognise efforts are made to differentiate between mod and IC posts, might I suggest seperate accounts be created for the team?

Mods, when posting as a Mod, tend to have a little thing at the bottom saying they are acting in their official capacity. Kinda like

Knock it off, this is your friendly warning.

~Imaginarymod
- Nationstates Moderator Team.

You may find it confusing initially, but you'll quickly become able to differentiate between official Mod posts (usually cos they're putting the smackdown on someone ;)) and their posts as a player.

When speaking in official capacity, we make it known. The Powers That Be want us to be able to play and interact with the game as well as moderate it, which is why we aren't forced to use puppets. However, in a forum like this specific one, it is generally assumed that we're always speaking in an official capacity unless we indicate otherwise.

...which kinda makes sense, really. But still, just for emphasis:


-The Most Glorious Hack
NationStates Game Moderator

So they're still allowed to enter discussions with their modly accounts. For example, if I say coffee tastes best with sugar and milk, Hacks can say he totally agrees with me.
:p

Yes; in fact, many mods engage in active debate or role-play (Melkor, Siri, Kat, and HR spring to mind).

I see people all the time who are mods engaging in perfectly normal discourse with us civilians. From the content of the post, it's easy to tell if they are acting as NS posters or as mods. I have also never seen any mod threaten or ban anyone over an opinion. As far as I know, that means it doesn't happen.

The only difference between a civilian and a mod in a standard discussion is that the mods' avatars make them a little more noticeable.

Yes; in fact, many mods engage in active debate or role-play (Melkor, Siri, Kat, and HR spring to mind).

Don't forget the always affable Dr. Denis Leary. ;)

Don't forget the always affable Dr. Denis Leary. ;)

Ah Petoht, how could I forget thee? D:

Not sure of the right place for this, so I figured this is closest.

Being new here, And with the mods not nonly being mods, but active participants as well, the initial perception (As somebody who is admittedly new, and not familiar with local convention) is when a mod is stating a pure player statement, yet the poster is titled as a mod, it is very easily percieved as being an "offical" view.

Whilst I certainly recognise efforts are made to differentiate between mod and IC posts, might I suggest seperate accounts be created for the team?

It's a bit of a trade-off, really.

On the one hand, keeping the Mod and player accounts entirely separate makes for less confusion and an easier separation of interests so as to avoid conflicts of interest.

On the other hand, it's harder to hide a conflict of interest if you're posting with the same account as both Mod and player, which provides for greater accountability. It also lets the players see that the Mods are people who enjoy and appreciate the site too, that they're not just tinhorn dictators who don't understand what it's like to be a player and have their concerns.

kinda think of them as the police officers who will, if there is no crime happening, play some b-ball with you, have coffee at the local coffee shoppe, and/or engage in friendly conversations... but when a crime happens nearby, people are thankful that they are part of the community. :D


and as for potential conflicts of interest, I've seen mods back down to let another hand out the judgement, even seen punnishments changed because of player concerns as well as. I trust the mods on this site.

For example, if I say coffee tastes best with sugar and milk, Hacks can say he totally agrees with me.Hush, you :p

Mods, when posting as a Mod, tend to have a little thing at the bottom saying they are acting in their official capacity. Kinda like



You may find it confusing initially, but you'll quickly become able to differentiate between official Mod posts (usually cos they're putting the smackdown on someone ;)) and their posts as a player.

My whole point exactly... Until you know the difference, a player who is laying the smackdown, but has a label in the top left stating "mod team", the obvious assumption to the uninitiated is its a mod laying the smackdown. Sure this place is a no holds barred kinda place, but it also becomes a very unwelcoming one with that perception, especially where open debate is not only an accepted part of the forum, but part of the very fabric of it. Must admit I don't know how long I'm going to stick around (I'm enjoying the small time I have been here... sadly I have stuff like Job and Family getting in the way of my Internet time which I already spend way too much time on) but my initial reaction was to walk away before I had even given it a chance.

As such, Now I understand the difference... But until I spotted a post that did indeed specify that it was in a moderator capacity, the (my... I'm running with the asumption that If I've felt it others, both past and future have done the same) general feeling was a level of uncertainty between if the mods are heavy handed around here, pushing their agenda or simply some of them are jerks.

To use the police officer analogy (Which is quiet a good one, never thought of it that way), imagine a police officer who held quiet extream views on say immigration standing around and making their private feelings loud and clear in public (And whilst not coming out with a police view, doing it in police uniform). A new migrant to the area who quiet simply didn't know any better, if this was the first thing they saw, chances are they would take their view of that officer and label it across the entire local police force.

But as for suggestions working towards that acountability thing - Seperate accounts with appropriate signatures declaring who their player is, or alternativly simply do the reverse of the current practice. All Mod posts are already labeled as such already and don't need ectra markings, so maybe a sig along the lines of
-This post is written as a player only and may or may not have any endorsement by the mod team-
Or at the very minimum, placing this at the end of posts which could either be percieved as negative or are heavily engaged in debate and discussion.

But until I spotted a post that did indeed specify that it was in a moderator capacity, the (my... I'm running with the asumption that If I've felt it others, both past and future have done the same) general feeling was a level of uncertainty between if the mods are heavy handed around here, pushing their agenda or simply some of them are jerks.No offense, but this is why responsible netizens lurk in forums until they learn the mores.

My whole point exactly... Until you know the difference, a player who is laying the smackdown, but has a label in the top left stating "mod team", the obvious assumption to the uninitiated is its a mod laying the smackdown.

personally when reading a post by a mod (especially if its part of a debate topic) then i tend to assume that it is the mod in their "player" capacity posting rather than in any offical capacity.

When in doubt you can often look at the language used in a post, if it is an offical mod post then often you'll see phrases such as "warning" "flame-baiting", etc. I remember when there was a discussion about players posting as if they were mods in this forum and it all came down to the language used. Really it's the same thing here imho.

To use the police officer analogy (Which is quiet a good one, never thought of it that way), imagine a police officer who held quiet extream views on say immigration standing around and making their private feelings loud and clear in public (And whilst not coming out with a police view, doing it in police uniform). A new migrant to the area who quiet simply didn't know any better, if this was the first thing they saw, chances are they would take their view of that officer and label it across the entire local police force.
If the police officer was in uniform when they were making the comments i'd agree with you that it would reflect badly on the police force, but if the offier was in a pub off-duty making the comments then it would be more reasonable to assume that these were personally held views and not the views of the force as a whole. When the mods are "in uniform" (using the -NS mod team label) then it can be seen as an offical held view, where as in forums such as general or I.I if there is no tag then it is more reasonable to assume that the mod in question is posting their own views rather than that of the "nationstates team".

But as for suggestions working towards that acountability thing - Seperate accounts with appropriate signatures declaring who their player is, or alternativly simply do the reverse of the current practice. All Mod posts are already labeled as such already and don't need ectra markings, so maybe a sig along the lines of
-This post is written as a player only and may or may not have any endorsement by the mod team-
Or at the very minimum, placing this at the end of posts which could either be percieved as negative or are heavily engaged in debate and discussion.

I honestly don't see any point to this at all. Why should it be relevant for the mods to tell us what their non-mod accounts are? If they are on a non-moderator account then they have no offical capacity in any of their posts so there is no confusion anyway.
Again when a post is engaged in debate i would think the normal reaction of a person would be to assume that the post is made in a non-offical capacity unless proven otherwise, but then again I don't speak for everyone so *shrugs* thats life....

Considering the Moderators were players before being made mods, and their reputation and position was earned under their player accounts, I don't see why, upon being made mod, they should have to give up or change accounts, or stop using the account they've built on for however long just to make a few oversensitive souls 'feel better' or less anxious about what's being posted - especially when it's always been more or less patently clear, as has already been laid out in other posts. They do make an effort to state when they're speaking 'hat on'. Otherwise, it's in play, just like everyone else. Shouldn't be that hard to grasp.

I never had a problem with it when I first started. I certainly don't have a problem with it now. Even with the obvious bit on 'authority or no, they're still just people like the rest of us' aside - something for some odd reason seems to get forgotten all too often. If you're going to let yourself be intimidated or overawed by a simple title under a name, I don't know how to help you. It only applies when the authority implied by it is used after all. And given past happenings, any one of them abusing the 'I'm a mod so my word goes' in an inappropriate way will be called on it by the others, or the admins.

I fail to see the any serious issue here.

Hush, you :p


Whaddidido? :D

You know you like it...sugar and milk!

No offense, but this is why responsible netizens lurk in forums until they learn the mores.
No offense taken. Although I must admit I don't 100% agree with the lurk before post thing (to a limited extent)... working with that perspective it works both ways. There are 2 types of forums (or any type of group for that matter) open and closed. In an open type place, if the first thing somebody sees is the equivilent of "Get Lost", they simply are not going to bother, and you got yourself a closed community without even realising. Further, its hardly a standard convention to even think to look for when in an environment where debate is welcome, no matter how extream the view... but your moderators also have a paticipant hat on as well.

If the police officer was in uniform when they were making the comments i'd agree with you that it would reflect badly on the police force, but if the offier was in a pub off-duty making the comments then it would be more reasonable to assume that these were personally held views and not the views of the force as a whole. When the mods are "in uniform" (using the -NS mod team label) then it can be seen as an offical held view, where as in forums such as general or I.I if there is no tag then it is more reasonable to assume that the mod in question is posting their own views rather than that of the "nationstates team".
I think you missed my point. The point is that the Mods (to somebody who does not understand convention) always have a Mod badge on. See the top left hand section of every single on of their posts. Further, whilst when in Rome, do as the Romans do - But It is the equivilent of going to Rome and having to work out that if they are wearing a police uniform on it don't matter... You have to work out that when they have their badge on, they are on duty, but they are off duty when they take their badge off reguardless of if the remain wearing the rest of their uniform, reguardless of however offical they happen to look.

Why should it be relevant for the mods to tell us what their non-mod accounts are?
I don't think it is either, but a previous reason given for the current setup was that a mods status in posting a non-mod is good for acountability, so simply responding to that. (And if that reads really strangly, somebody feel free to translate that into decent English)

Again when a post is engaged in debate i would think the normal reaction of a person would be to assume that the post is made in a non-offical capacity unless proven otherwise, but then again I don't speak for everyone so *shrugs* thats life....
My thinking on a normal reaction is that if somebody says something debating something, and says it whilst wearing an offical title and with no explicit disclaimer otherwise, would be to assume its an offical post... but like yourself, I don't speak for everybody.

Stuff.

Its not about intimidation, its something else. Real world, if I meet a group of somebodys, and I percieve them not to share the same basic levels of mutual respect as to what I both show and expectm, they don't intimidate me, but I certainly don't hang around.

I fail to see the any serious issue here.

Is it a serious issue? No idea. Are many people simply turning away from here at first sight? No idea. And is it a good thing that that the type of people that are turning away are not here? Again no idea. Up to the powers that be.



All that stated, I've stated what I have to say. If my thoughts are something that has been read, thought over and rejected - great. I'm just the kind of person who don't hide in the corner for a while, and will happily call things as I see it if I figured its welcomed and (so far as I can tell thus far) this is the kinda place that judges things on the value of the content, not the join date or postcount.

As such, I'll leave it at that, with the disclaimer that if somebody tacks another issue on here, or If I both remember and feel the same way about this thread in 1000 posts I may resurface it :)

Although I must admit I don't 100% agree with the lurk before post thing (to a limited extent)...Once again, I show my age. I always lurk on a forum before I post. I find it's useful for avoiding such confusion.

Further, its hardly a standard convention to even think to look for when in an environment where debate is welcomeIt used to this way regardless of the forum. Sadly, it seems to no longer be the case.

but your moderators also have a paticipant hat on as well.Again, that's the way the site admin wants it to be. And, more importanly, that's how the owner wants it to be. Max wants us to be active participants so that we don't lose touch with the game.

I don't understand the issue here. As far as I can tell, this has never, ever been a problem before. I've debated with the Mods many times before without worrying that their telling me I'm an idiot is an official view. :p

I deal with the mods the easy way: I try not to break the rules. To carry the police anology a little farther: Police don't intimidate me (as they do others) because I don't break the law.

Also like police, the mods do have more power than us regular players, but what seems to be forgotten is that they have assumed more responsiblity as well.