NationStates Jolt Archive

Greetings.

Today at 6:00AM, this thread... http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=475857

Was locked by GMC Military Arms. The reasons for the lock were:

1) Advertising of an off-forum site.
2) Anything useful is stickied
3) Again, talking about useful things being stickied.

This was a rather rushed lock, and I view it as unfair for the following reasons:

1) Threads like the Official Biggest Ship Comparison Chart (and things along those lines) are hosted on off-forum sites, simply because you *cannot* host something on the forums! The fact that I am taking content originally posted on the forum for the purpose of being archived in such a manner does not qualify as off-site advertising, as there is no advertising to begin with. Not once did I say "Hey everybody, come check out www.blahblahblah.com!" I simply said that the current index of NS requests for comments can be found at *insert domain here*. I am gaining absolutely nothing from hosting this roleplaying-related site on my server, under my domain name, so it's bogus that my thread, which others have found *Very* useful and have even contributed to, should be locked while other similar information threads with offsite resources remain open.

Long story short, if threads like the Ship Comparison charts are seen as "useful" (What kind of use is there? It's not like these ships are real, and it's not like knowing their relative size is all that important, as opposed to reading up on tactical and informative articles on the NSRFC Archives, which is ENTIRELY NS-FOCUSED!)

2) Not everything useful is stickied. That's the most biased excuse I've heard yet. Just because User A doesn't find the NSRFC archive useful doesn't mean that User B doesn't find it useful. Long story short, the NSRFC is supposed to be an archive of tactical data and information designed to enhance the NS roleplay experience. That's what it's doing, and that's the only thing it does!

3) Goto 2.

Please remove the unfair lock on my thread so participating users and I can continue to brainstorm to enhance our NationStates RP experiences.

1) Threads like the Official Biggest Ship Comparison Chart (and things along those lines) are hosted on off-forum sites, simply because you *cannot* host something on the forums!

No, they're not. The ship comparison chart image is hosted on an offsite image board. The plain text is all right there in the Nationstates forum.

so it's bogus that my thread, which others have found *Very* useful and have even contributed to, should be locked while other similar information threads with offsite resources remain open.

Your thread takes plain text and puts it on an offsite forum where you do something you could just as easily do here. The offsite part is totally unnecessary to what you claim to be trying to do, all it does is create a second set of pseudo-stickies you have sole control over.

Ergo, you are using our site to advertise your personal site hosting your personal set of NS 'rules.'

2) Not everything useful is stickied. That's the most biased excuse I've heard yet.

Not everyone who writes something useful requests a sticky.

Please remove the unfair lock on my thread so participating users and I can continue to brainstorm to enhance our NationStates RP experiences.

No. Do it on our site or not at all. Creating a thread to link to a site where you talk about posts in the thread is pointless. Talk about posts in the thread in the thread itself.

Yes. I am not one to complain but after writing about six pages for what I thought was an inventive project I was a little perturbed to find it locked down – especially considering its benign nature.

Now I do not want to give anyone a hard time but the reasoning given on the lock was a bit – for a lack of a less inflammatory term – lacking; if you will allow me to explain.


[1] We already have consolidation stickies for useful threads. If you want to write something useful, post it and ask to have it linked in those threads.


Right. And while I can see the point in having a comprehensive sticky list how does this make a matter to the thread at hand? Even if this thread was going to be put up for sticky no one can comment on it now. Supposing we had decided that stickying was the best route for this would we not now need two stickies: One for the article itself and one to allow people to comment on and critic it?

Is it the position of moderation that meta-game discussions are either sticky or not? On a free form role play forum is there no room for a thread that speaks about role-playing without being in character per se? I have to admit that while this is not a dedicated IC or OOC thread it is still on topic and I am confused as to why it was locked.

And on the off chance we wanted to speak about RPing in a manner that was useful to those involved in the thread and not to the board as a whole? Is it then still appropriate to sticky the thread? If Foe Hammer, myself, and others want to have a civil discourse on a topic very much within the realm of NationStates where else are we to have it then the NationStates forum?

I am terribly sorry once again if I am being rude but it would seem like this reason has no merit in and of itself. If you could explain it to me within this context – i.e. reason number one without relating to the other reasons – that would be appreciated.


[2] We don't really need an extra offsite section for 'stickies that the mods won't sticky but Foe Hammer wants to show everyone anyway.'

Well this reason is contentious I suppose. Is there no room for Foe Hammer’s desire to archive these comments? Is perhaps the sticky system too limiting? I am not sure how this is any different from NSwiki or any other extraneous tool that has popped up to cater to our community. While it is obvious that the boards themselves could indeed serve this role I see this as a phenomenal asset that goes beyond what the boards provide.

If in the future it is ever decided that jolt can no longer house the community can you guarantee the safe keeping of all the threads? How many were lost in the last server change? How many were lost to error 0?

It may seem a bit trite of me to bring this up – and more than a little self interested – but I am a at lack to understand the criteria used to make the determination made here. I realize that moderators have been given a license that exceeds my own on this forum but I must ask you: does that license extend to making moralistic judgments about the necessity and nature of the tools that have arisen to serve the NationStates community? Is that judgment grounds enough for your action?

If the answer is yes I do apologize I would simply have to confess that I was blissfully unaware of that little feature of the moderator mandate.


[3] This gets locked for 'advertising an offsite site.' If anyone thinking of posting to this has something worth stickying, post it in a thread of its own and other users will criticise and suggest additions. That's how all the existing stickies were made.


Ah. Now we come to the meat of the matter.

My first observation would be that the true reason for the banning has very little to do with the first two observations made. This gives my mind two questions: Why were the observations made at all then? Or is it that the decidedly moralistic tone of the observations – despite their unconnected nature to the definitive reasoning – has shaded said reasoning?

This might sound – once again – inflammatory but I truly do not mean it like that. Perhaps it is because I am so unfamiliar with how the moderators operate that I even make these comments. I do wonder though if you had a singular, pointed, and justifiable reason for locking down the thread why you would bother editorializing what could have been your arbitrarily enforced due process. I – as one who has just felt authority brush them aside – do have to say that I was not particularly please with the tone of the locking. Irrespective of my displeasure – which could simply be attributed to my anti-authoritative nature – I do have comments on the interpretation of the rules.

The first sentence is the only thing I will concern myself with – because it would seem my comments on reasons one and two suit the majority of three as well. “his gets locked for ‘advertising and offsite site.’

This would seem fair enough but the rule in question does give some leeway – let alone receiving the benefit of the doubt from an actual person applying the rule.


Advertisements: For the most part, advertising threads are not allowed in NationStates. If you really want an ad here, contact the Jolt Admins, and purchase banner space. Til then, it isn't a good idea to try and advertise your forum on Max Barry's forum. If your advertisement involves itself along side NationStates, it is allowed (such as the GDP Calculators, and region ads in Gameplay), but advertisements, such as one that promotes your own forum for debate over the General forum, as well as an advertisement for a seperate roleplay forum (That does not involve NS; an example would be a World War 2 RP) within the Nationstates and International Incidents forums, are not allowed here, and will be locked.

In short, just as long as it has something to do with Nationstates, it is allowed, but trying to pimp your own forum on Max's website will not be tolerated.


And so I would make the comparison once again to NSwiki or as the rules mention a GDP calculator. This site is a tool. Traffic on it has no bearing on Foe Hammer’s financial well being and the debate itself is being held on this forum – not on another.

In fact when this thread was locked we were told to make new threads and get the other forums members to critique our work. And yet, was my work not critiqued by two other forum members on this forum? Except for saving a transcript offsite is this not exactly to your instructions?

How many were lost to error 0?As this had absolutely nothing to do with the forum, the answer is (not surprizingly) none.

As this had absolutely nothing to do with the forum, the answer is (not surprizingly) none.

Opens mouth to respond. Muffled noise emanates from self instead – looks down to see that foot has been lodged squarely into mouth.

Ah… My bad.

Sorry.

I hope this does not take the away from the general thrust of my post. (too much)

Now, as for that thread, myself, I think it should be stickied, but I respect that not all members (some mods included), may not, and sone confirmed do not, agree with me. So perhaps you could restart the thread, and have links in the first posts to all the posts with acceptable articles, all on this forum, so as not to advertise? I do not mean to try and challenge the mods here, just offering my two cents.

I believe the decision was actually to have the thread starter restart the thread with some rewrites.

In fact, I believe the poster *has* started it again. Here: http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=475936