NationStates Jolt Archive


Wishing Death

Jocabia
03-03-2006, 09:51
Throughout the thread, you'll see people suggesting the OP should die. I find the OP's proclivities detestable, but I believe that doesn't excuse the posts in reply.

http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=471397

I only looked at a bit of it, but I saw several requests for him to die.

http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=10518249&postcount=15
http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=10518386&postcount=66
http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=10518354&postcount=52
http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=10518363&postcount=56
http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=10518370&postcount=60

It's clear that this thread has several posters who are mildly suggesting they wish for the OP to die.
Man in Black
03-03-2006, 11:52
I'm one of them, and if thats a bannable offense, so be it. Ever been fucked when you were 9? :mad:
The Most Glorious Hack
03-03-2006, 11:59
This may take some time; which I don't have a lot of right now. The thread is locked pending a review, and may well stay locked. In fact, I think I'm going to kick it over to the Mod forum for a more comprehensive review.

Death threats are taken seriously around here, no matter how dispicable the person being threatened is.
NERVUN
03-03-2006, 12:18
In a way, I'm glad you guys closed it out. I was getting tired of having to rebut again and again about that topic.

Right now I feel in need of a shower to scrub the inside of my skin.

I am a little annoyed that they got the last word in though. :p
Valdania
03-03-2006, 12:35
I thought that the whole thread was deeply unpleasant and made sure to avoid posting in it.

The 'death threats' notwithstanding; is there not some sort of obligation to pass the OP's details onto the relevant authorites in his locale? Assuming it's not all one big joke, there should be an attempt to ensure relevant precaution is taken.
Quaon
03-03-2006, 14:00
The problem is (I didn't see the thread before it got moved, so I could be wrong) nobody knows the local authorities. They could be in America, Britian, Scotland, Iraq, Spain, Italy, etc. And, from what I gather, this guy was talking about raping children? Sick bastard.
Jocabia
03-03-2006, 14:16
I'm one of them, and if thats a bannable offense, so be it. Ever been fucked when you were 9? :mad:

Four actually. But I'm not sure that's the point.
Valdania
03-03-2006, 15:22
The problem is (I didn't see the thread before it got moved, so I could be wrong) nobody knows the local authorities. They could be in America, Britian, Scotland, Iraq, Spain, Italy, etc. And, from what I gather, this guy was talking about raping children? Sick bastard.

I would have thought the mods would have his IP address or other such technical info (about which I know little)?
Crazy girl
03-03-2006, 15:23
This kind of situations always bring up a lot of emotions, I can't really blame people for responding like they did if this thread is what i think it is. Hell, I might have flamed the guy myself had I seen the thread.
Quaon
03-03-2006, 17:56
I would have thought the mods would have his IP address or other such technical info (about which I know little)?
I thought IP addresses weren't area specific...also becomes useless if posted at a public computer, hotel, or laptop.
Euroslavia
04-03-2006, 07:44
Let's keep the chit-chat down to a minimum, mk? We'll have a ruling on the thread as soon as it is reviewed thoroughly.
Jocabia
04-03-2006, 07:55
You could probably go ahead and close this thread. It seems we've given you all the input you need and you guys are on top of it.
The Most Glorious Hack
10-03-2006, 12:20
This hasn't been forgotten about. Expect a decision soon.
The Most Glorious Hack
20-03-2006, 02:27
After a review by the staff, we have decided to take the following actions:

Man in Black: Deleted. Getting angry during an emotionally charged debate is understandable. Wishing death and threatening people is never acceptable on these forums. Your comments here (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=10518249&postcount=15), here (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=10518725&postcount=125), here (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=10518731&postcount=127), here (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=10518740&postcount=130), and here (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=10518750&postcount=135), are completely and utterly unacceptable. Add to this the fact that you know (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=10518747&postcount=134) that you're breaking the rules, there's really no other option. As stated in the FAQ (emphasis added):What can't I post?

Any content that is:
obscene
illegal
threatening
malicious
defamatory
spam

This applies to your nation's name, motto, and other customizable fields, any messages you write, images you post, or any other content you upload or link to NationStates. If you do, your nation will be deleted.
Stone Bridges: Deleted. Telegram mentioned here (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=10518547&postcount=82) has been verified via the Mod Centre and is utterly unacceptable as well. See the highlighted section from the FAQ above.

PsychoticDan: Unofficial Warning. Your comment at the end of your post here (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=10518370&postcount=60) is unacceptable and borderline flaming.

Sasheron: Unofficial Warning. Same as above. Comment in this post (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=10518500&postcount=80) is unacceptable.

PsychoticDan and Sasheron receive unofficial warnings for flaming because their comments were not targeted, unlike Man in Black's.

Dark Shadowy Nexus: Unofficial Warning. Just as we don't censor Nazis, we aren't going to censor pedophiles. However, simply posting a view and refusing to acknowledge any responses and dismissing them out of hand is skirting the shoals of trolling. You should watch yourself. Furthermore, should you actually post any illegal activities that you participate in, or are planning to participate in, our response will be dramatically different.

The thread itself will stay locked away; there's no sense in sending it back. If people really wish to discuss the... "merits"... of child/adult interaction, they can start a new one.

I would like people to remember that this is not a detour from the standards we've applied since Moderators were created. This forum has never forbidden controversial, odious, or reprehensible viewpoints simply because they were controversial, odious or reprehensible. Max has always felt that debating with people and showing them how they are wrong is superior to simply deleting them and shoving them back into their dark corners.

This decision should not be construed as NationStates or its staff supporting such activities in any way, shape, or form. Some Moderators recused themselves from the review because they knew they couldn't be impartial on such an issue. And that's the key here: the rules of this forum are applied regardless of personal politics and convictions. This was a difficult decision to come to, but cases like this are what truly test the board's convictions to its principles.

If people are seeking justification for how we could possibly allow Dark Shadowy Nexus to escape punishment, I submit to you Max's views as expressed in our discussion:

This thread is indeed a good test of our policy. I think it's important to observe that this person isn't just an annoying poster pushing people's buttons--he seems to be a disturbed individual who actually thinks about engaging in this stuff. He has built up a bunch of rationalizations as to why that would be justified, but because he's posted here, he's now facing a lot of well-reasoned opposition.

By being prepared to tolerate discussion of unpleasant issues--within strict parameters, of course--we have caused this guy to be exposed to argument and information that might possibly dissuade him from acting on his impulses in real life.

[There is] value in keeping him here and subject to debate, rather sending him off to be alone with his thoughts.As mentioned, there was some good debate in that thread. Posters such as Jacobia and NERVUN were willing to engage in actual debate without resorting to heated rhetoric or threats. Those are the kinds of posts that both reflect well on the community as a whole, and are more likely to affect positive change.

This thread will be unlocked in case there are comments or questions, but if it devolves again, it will be relocked.

Thank you for your patience.

-The Most Glorious Hack
NationStates Game Moderator
Fass
20-03-2006, 02:34
Fass, you do not have permission to access this page. This could be due to one of several reasons:

1. Your user account may not have sufficient privileges to access this page. Are you trying to edit someone else's post, access administrative features or some other privileged system?
2. If you are trying to post, the administrator may have disabled your account, or it may be awaiting activation.

That's what happens when the links to the offending posts are clicked. :\
Jocabia
20-03-2006, 02:34
I don't remember posting in that thread, but I'm glad you handled this in such a way. I appreciate what Max had to say on the subject and I think if people looked back to when I began posting here along with a lot of others, his faith that a reasoned response can actually change people and expose thier justifications can be evidenced in dozens of threads. I hope he's right about this individual as well.

EDIT: I was molested as a child by a young woman who was herself molested. I think the only way to prevent this from continuing to be passed on from generation to generation is to help these individuals to see the effects of the behavior and to prevent them from being rewarded with the type of gratification they seek. In this case, I'm afraid throwing him off the forums would actually make his reasoning (that everyone is just unwilling to actually examine the topic) seem more justified. This is the same reason I asked several of the posters NOT to put him on ignore.
The Most Glorious Hack
20-03-2006, 02:38
That's what happens when the links to the offending posts are clicked. :\Ah, Hell. That's right, the original was shoved into the Mod forum. Hmm... I'll see what I can do.
The Most Glorious Hack
20-03-2006, 02:47
Well, the links will be less than useful to anybody who isn't a Moderator. Since our split tools are tied up in the seldom-working pull down menus, I can't split the Moderator discussion from the original thread.
Forgottenlands
20-03-2006, 05:15
Shame that you can't retrieve it. It sounds like it would've been an enlightening read. Ah well....
The Most Glorious Hack
20-03-2006, 06:22
The posts are still there, they just can't be viewed by non-mods right now. I'm trying to figure a way to fix this.
Forgottenlands
20-03-2006, 06:42
The posts are still there, they just can't be viewed by non-mods right now. I'm trying to figure a way to fix this.

Delete the posts? If the case is closed......
Jocabia
20-03-2006, 07:05
Delete the posts? If the case is closed......

Just like we revisit topics so do they. Only when they do it, I doubt they enjoy retreading ground. They may need those posts at another time I would assume.
Quaon
25-03-2006, 20:25
After a review by the staff, we have decided to take the following actions:

Man in Black: Deleted. Getting angry during an emotionally charged debate is understandable. Wishing death and threatening people is never acceptable on these forums. Your comments here (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=10518249&postcount=15), here (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=10518725&postcount=125), here (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=10518731&postcount=127), here (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=10518740&postcount=130), and here (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=10518750&postcount=135), are completely and utterly unacceptable. Add to this the fact that you know (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=10518747&postcount=134) that you're breaking the rules, there's really no other option.

Dark Shadowy Nexus: Unofficial Warning. Just as we don't censor Nazis, we aren't going to censor pedophiles. However, simply posting a view and refusing to acknowledge any responses and dismissing them out of hand is skirting the shoals of trolling. You should watch yourself. Furthermore, should you actually post any illegal activities that you participate in, or are planning to participate in, our response will be dramatically different.

[/B]
I don't like to argue with the mods, but this is uterrly hyprocritical. Sure, Man in Black made a bad decision, but he should have been warned, not banned. I respect your decision, but if your going to delete a man for getting extremly POed when a guy references something that happened to him when he was a kid and says he might do it, that should be taken into account.

Also, I don't see how the analogy can work here. As much as I hate it, Nazism is a political view point. Pedophilia is not. It is rape. If someone said they're thinking about raping their neighbor, I don't think the mods would sit idly by. I think that he should be deleted, or at least Officially warned, for his post.

I respect your authority, but I petition you to eitheir re-instate Man in Black or delete Nexus.


Thank You,
-Your Friend, The Free Empire of Quaon

Edit: After realizing that Nexus is an anti-pedo (I thought he was the pedo), I withdraw my position, though I do think Man in Black should be reinstated.
The Most Glorious Hack
25-03-2006, 21:12
I don't like to argue with the mods, but this is uterrly hyprocritical. Sure, Man in Black made a bad decision, but he should have been warned, not banned.Death threats are one of the penalities on this site that result in instant deletion. Coupled with the fact that he knew he was breaking the rules, knew he could be deleted, and didn't care... well... a warning would have been a waste of time.

I respect your decision, but if your going to delete a man for getting extremly POed when a guy references something that happened to him when he was a kid and says he might do it, that should be taken into account.Nobody forces anyone to post here. If he didn't have the self control to post within the rules of the site, he shouldn't have posted. He could have stopped reading the thread; taken a break from the computer; used Jolt's ignore function. There's any number of options that he could have taken advantage of. Threatening is not one of those options.

If someone said they're thinking about raping their neighbor, I don't think the mods would sit idly by.False analogy. Nexus wasn't talking about things he had done; he was asking why people thought such actions were wrong. As I stated in my ruling, should he decide to post about things he has done or is planning to do, our responce will be considerably different.

I respect your authority, but I petition you to eitheir re-instate Man in Black or delete Nexus.The reason it took so long to post this decision is because of the amount of review that occured behind the scenes. I do not forsee this being overturned.
Quaon
25-03-2006, 21:21
Death threats are one of the penalities on this site that result in instant deletion. Coupled with the fact that he knew he was breaking the rules, knew he could be deleted, and didn't care... well... a warning would have been a waste of time.

Nobody forces anyone to post here. If he didn't have the self control to post within the rules of the site, he shouldn't have posted. He could have stopped reading the thread; taken a break from the computer; used Jolt's ignore function. There's any number of options that hehttp://assets.jolt.co.uk/forums/jolt/editor/smilie.gif could have taken advantage of. Threatening is not one of those options.

False analogy. Nexus wasn't talking about things he had done; he was asking why people thought such actions were wrong. As I stated in my ruling, should he decide to post about things he has done or is planning to do, our responce will be considerably different.

The reason it took so long to post this decision is because of the amount of review that occured behind the scenes. I do not forsee this being overturned.
I apologize for wasting your time, for I misunderstood what Nexus said. I thought he was talking about raping children because I have not read his thread. Thank you for your time.
The Most Glorious Hack
25-03-2006, 22:13
I apologize for wasting your timeNone needed. I don't have a problem further explaining decisions. Better to have players seek clarification then to have them simply be mad. It's like having an open door policy.

Typically, we only get irritated when we have to repeat ourselves twenty or thirty times ;)
Forgottenlands
25-03-2006, 22:20
Edit: After realizing that Nexus is an anti-pedo (I thought he was the pedo), I withdraw my position, though I do think Man in Black should be reinstated.

In this case, he wasn't an anti-pedo. He was someone who had Pedophile urges and needed a chance to discuss them with other people - non-pedophiles.
Quaon
25-03-2006, 22:21
In this case, he wasn't an anti-pedo. He was someone who had Pedophile urges and needed a chance to discuss them with other people - non-pedophiles.
That's weird. All his past posts are anti-pedo. I guess he was in denial. That's kinda creepy...
Forgottenlands
25-03-2006, 22:23
That's weird. All his past posts are anti-pedo. I guess he was in denial. That's kinda creepy...

Not entirely....

Think of the sort of society we live in. Pedophiles are persecuted harshly. He may have merely been trying to hide himself from such persecution. Certainly, there's a possibility he may suffer for "coming out" now. We'll have to see.
Quaon
25-03-2006, 22:30
Not entirely....

Think of the sort of society we live in. Pedophiles are persecuted harshly. He may have merely been trying to hide himself from such persecution. Certainly, there's a possibility he may suffer for "coming out" now. We'll have to see.That's not unjust persucetion. Oh, and before we high-jack this thread, let's eitheir stop this conversation or make a different thread.
Crazy girl
25-03-2006, 23:10
Umm...looking through his post history, don't see any anti-pedo things, just pro...and i'll leave it at that before i get myself deleted too.
Crazy girl
25-03-2006, 23:23
None needed. I don't have a problem further explaining decisions. Better to have players seek clarification then to have them simply be mad. It's like having an open door policy.

Typically, we only get irritated when we have to repeat ourselves twenty or thirty times ;)


tempting..but doubt i could keep the language down. still disagree with the deletion and nexus getting away with this.
The Most Glorious Hack
26-03-2006, 00:19
still disagree with the deletion and nexus getting away with this.If you want to telegram me over this, feel free. I'm aware of some of your complaints.
Crazy girl
26-03-2006, 09:31
i guess that works, since i never see you on irc anymore..