NationStates Jolt Archive

I understand completely that Nazi Germany flags are illegal, after a lot of conversation on the topic I was suprised to hear Imperial Germany to come up not even once. After posting the flag up for a short time in my region's forums and was asked by an concerned member if it was Nazi Germany and/or if it was okay on NS.

IIRC, the rules only ban flags containing Nazi imagery, included but not limited to all images of Hitler, swastikas, the SS lightning bolt rune thingies etc.

Assuming you were talking about your own flag, I can't see any reason it would be disallowed, but, as ever NOT A MOD

Imperial Germany (http://www.fotw.net/flags/de1871.html), including the War Ensign (http://www.fotw.net/flags/de1871~w.html), is allowed. For that matter, the Iron Cross is allowed - as is the Arrow Cross, Circle-and-Flash, and many other icons.

While it's easy to say "This, this, and that are not allowed", it also leaves areas where people are going to get caught, because when we look for Nazi nations we have to judge by intent. Admittedly this is somewhat subjective, but until we get psychic powers it's the best we can do.

So, for example;

A flag of Hitler looking stern and Führer-like is out. A flag of Hitler wearing fake breasts and an apron saying "Kiss the Chef" would be OK (unless the motto was "Serving up tasty Jews since 1939" or some such). A nation named "Bob Hitler's 423rd Reich" with a flag showing flowers and happy bunnies would be OK (unless, again, the motto was "We kill with kindness!" or similar).

When we judge nations like this we go by the totality of the user-customisable fields, rather than just the flag alone. But I can say quite definitely that the Swastika is out - and the Imperial German flag is fine.

~ Tsar the Mod.

Like the Swastika, the SS thunderbolt is also verboten, as is pornography (and don't even think about combining the two - yes, it has happened). Most everything else, we judge on context.

I've just realised what I'm essentially doing above is paraphrasing the Acceptable Flag Policy (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=438053) sticky (and quite closely too!), so you can go read that - [violet] is more eloquent than I.

Imperial Germany (http://www.fotw.net/flags/de1871.html), including the War Ensign (http://www.fotw.net/flags/de1871~w.html), is allowed. For that matter, the Iron Cross is allowed - as is the Arrow Cross, Circle-and-Flash, and many other icons.


Sorry... but the http://www.fotw.net/flags/de1871~w.html Reichkriegsflagge is not allowed in Germany and is used only by Neo-Nazis. I feel ashamed for people using it as their Nation-Flag...

We expect players to comply with all applicable laws of the nation they are located in, as is proper. However, NationStates is hosted by a company in Britain, owned by an Australian, and the War Ensign is not banned in those nationalities, or under NationStates rules.

What we have to ask ourselves when moderating flags is "How is this going to be perceived?". Obviously, a German might think of neofascists when seeing the War Ensign, just as a Korean might react negatively to the Imperial Japanese flag, a Vietnamese to the US flag, or an ethnic Tasmanian to the Union Jack; while there will always be exceptions to the viewpoint of the majority, the majority is the best we can do.

~ Tsar the Mod.

Cool thanks, one more is the version of the flag with the very look alike "Independent" symbol in the center (top left of the one not allowed flag).
Is it okay?

What about the Basque Lauburu?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Lauburu.jpg

Intent matters. If they begin cropping up on Nazi and white nationalist nations, what would a reasonable person assume?

Sorry... but the http://www.fotw.net/flags/de1871~w.html Reichkriegsflagge is not allowed in Germany and is used only by Neo-Nazis. I feel ashamed for people using it as their Nation-Flag...I for one would like to see proof of that...

Being a proud German Decendant, I can said I personally have one flying on my wall (the 6-foot size) and despise all things Nazi. The flag was around long before Hitler came to power, I would see no logical basis for a ban on it (unless it has something to do with Verseille... though I would think that obsolete by now)

I for one would like to see proof of that...

Being a proud German Decendant, I can said I personally have one flying on my wall (the 6-foot size) and despise all things Nazi. The flag was around long before Hitler came to power, I would see no logical basis for a ban on it (unless it has something to do with Verseille... though I would think that obsolete by now)It isn't illegal per se, but it can be ruled as a "danger for public order" under certain circumstances (such as waving it in a protest against the Holocaust Memorial).
See 1.2 on Mikitivity's link to the Hesse Police on legality of symbols (http://www.polizei.hessen.de/internetzentral/broker.jsp?uMen=d2570ee1-825a-f6f8-6373-a91bbcb63046)

Like the Swastika, the SS thunderbolt is also verboten, as is pornography (and don't even think about combining the two - yes, it has happened). Most everything else, we judge on context.

I take it that you're aware, then, that "SS thunderbolt" is the Runic glyph for S?

I do not undersatnd why the nazi flags are not alowed and the comunists are! In democracie we have to alow everything!

I do not undersatnd why the nazi flags are not alowed and the comunists are! In democracie we have to alow everything!

But NS isn't a democracy.

I do not undersatnd why the nazi flags are not alowed and the comunists are! In democracie we have to alow everything!
NationStates is not a democracy. It is a bureaucratic benevolent dictatorship, with Max Barry being the dictator, [violet], SalusaSecondus and Pythagosaurus being the first level of bureaucracy, the game mods being the third level, forum mods the fourth level, etc.

EDIT: darn, Heron-Marked Warriors beat me to it.

I for one would like to see proof of that...

Being a proud German Decendant, I can said I personally have one flying on my wall (the 6-foot size) and despise all things Nazi. The flag was around long before Hitler came to power, I would see no logical basis for a ban on it (unless it has something to do with Verseille... though I would think that obsolete by now)

Laerod beat me to the proof, although I´m not sure as it is in german...but being a proud german descendant you have mastery of that language for sure. In fact the flag was merely some 50 years in use and has seen heavy use by german neo-nazis. Btw, why do you think the treaty of Versailles is obsolete?

I do not undersatnd why the nazi flags are not alowed and the comunists are! In democracie we have to alow everything!


Read the FAQ and the Acceptable Flag Sticky.

Laerod beat me to the proof, although I´m not sure as it is in german...but being a proud german descendant you have mastery of that language for sure. In fact the flag was merely some 50 years in use and has seen heavy use by german neo-nazis. Btw, why do you think the treaty of Versailles is obsolete?Well, that was written for WWI's end, I would think that it went obsolete as soon as WWII started. As for my use of language, I am a Chemistry Major, not an English major... get over the typos.

I understand completely that Nazi Germany flags are illegal, after a lot of conversation on the topic I was suprised to hear Imperial Germany to come up not even once. After posting the flag up for a short time in my region's forums and was asked by an concerned member if it was Nazi Germany and/or if it was okay on NS.


After WWII the NAZI flag was seen as the 'enemy flag' because the war actually went into Germany and incinierated the 'order' much death and destruction, there was an occupation of germany, soon the old sentiments were brought underground. Were as the old imperial german iron cross is much proliferated, and it wasn't seen as a bad symbol since everyone was pretty much equivilent then, the reasons for the war whatever they were could be many but it didn't seem 'hate filled' (arguably it was to break up the austrian empire because it was the last old 'monarchy left' and the Heir married a commoner..(a duchess but still a commoner) meanwhile in england ( the head of part of germany and england and scottland and half the world abdicated to marry a commoner (An america) essentially that created the war(imo) youll notice in the Emperor Franz's one portrait his hand rests on a black table.. where as the other is white.. it is all cryptic.

Imperial Germany was also the ;empire' with the Kaiser(esential WWI killed the european monarchist frontality) WWII was something compltetly different (hitler said to be the illigetimate son of none other than one of the Austrian royalty this could be incorrect but since all traces of hitlers youth (except for th order) was erased little is known in great detail. It was banned in Germany and due to the immense war propaganda against hitler and the Nazi party it fell into a special status of taboo. Although the swastika itself is a sign of many things of order and peace, the indians use it . it is an aryan symbol (aryans are in Iran and India primarily now.. the Indian Caste system was developed by the aryans.

Anyway Neonazi groups primarily have a swastika to represent Nazi beleifs (sometimes) (in this respect chapters of teh Nazi party still gather and it is gerally for its racsist beleifs not allowed to be publically displayed.

PC.

I don't agree but I can understand how people are seeking to keep it's status as a special symbol (maybe so that only the global Nazi government can insure it only flies in the recesses of the actual nazi strongholds.. whatever... prolly the holocaust identity but IMO the world hasnt changed must since then (and for people of low income the National Socialist Fascist domination of 'freedom' is quite apparent.

The reason it remains a separate symbol is because this is Maxx's site, Maxx's rules. If ever the German symbols get mixed in with the banning of Nazi symbols, that is when I leave. For now though, the Swastika and SS rune are both banned as they are intemately connected with the Nazi-propogated holocost, and Maxx does not want such connection on his site. Period.

Besides that fact, it is actually illegal to fly/display a swastika and various other nazi symbols, including the SS thunderbolts, in Germany, which seems like it may be an obvious contribution to the reason they're not allowed on the site (Besides the actual reason. This would seem to be more of a tertiary one). Communist symbols, the iron cross, and the imperial Japanese/German flags, just as examples, are not illegal in any nations worldwide.

NationStates is not a democracy. It is a bureaucratic benevolent dictatorship, with Max Barry being the dictator, [violet], SalusaSecondus and Pythagosaurus being the first level of bureaucracy, the game mods being the third level, forum mods the fourth level, etc.
Just a quick correction before closing this. Pythagosaurus is a great and helpful admin, but he's here as a coder, not as an ethical administrator to game mods. We answer to Max, [violet], and SalusaSecondus, in that order.

We've had the flag discussion a million times now. You want to discuss it, do so in General.