NationStates Jolt Archive

http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=461848

I would like to request that posts 13, 14, 15, 16, and 17 be deleted. I am sick and tired every thread that isn't a roleplay of mine being attacked by these people who think it's their job to try and call me out for something I say. I started this thread for a reason, and I stated what that reason was for rather extensively in post 6. I would also ask that posts 5 and 6 remain in the thread, even though they are out of character, to hopefully prevent any more of this nonsense from occuring in the future. There is no need for what they call "criticism" in that thread. This isn't general. This is my effort to help people with questions, or at the very least clear up some things about my RP's. Meanwhile, these people think its their job to hijack my thread and attack me with it. I'm really just fed up and sick of it all.

oh...

...and just for the record, GMC, saying that I was attempting to talk like a mod is rather nitpicky, especially considering the other infractions occuring in that thread. Lets be honest with ourselves now. After reading all of that, you chose to comment on something that in all reality, I wasn't doing? Me saying that I thought it would be a good idea for ElectronX not to post here anymore was both my personal opinion and an effort to avoid further confrontation and the futher ruining of my thread.

Posts 18-20 can be added to the list as well.

Let me get this straight... You would like a Moderator ruling purged from your thread?

No. It doesn't work like that. If you have a complaint, you bring it here, you don't get into a pissing contest on the thread that you're complaining about. If ElectronX was bothering you, you could either come here and complain, or you could use the built-in ignore feature that Jolt provides.

Also, since you ignored it when it was posted in that thread, I'll post it again here:

Noteworthy point here: OOC RP threads not directly connected to a actual RP thread [ie discussion of general ideas or design] are subject to the same rules as the general forum to avoid people trying to stifle criticism of their ideas using the 'originator controls thread' RP post rule.

The RP 'originator controls thread' concept exists to prevent unwelcome players from disrupting roleplaying and detracting from in-character posting. It is applied to out-of-character posts directly linked to in-character threads because only the posters in the in-character thread have any real need to use the attached discussion thread. It is not a blunt instrument to be used to silence criticism in pure OOC threads discussing general concepts, be it history, nuclear weapons, ship design or anything else.

It's an OOC thread not directly connected to an IC thread, therefore it doesn't have author ownership. Maybe next time you could try asking politely instead of demanding.

Or, again, using the ignore function.

Alright, look. I had no intention to inflame the situation to this level. Honestly, all this bickering is stupid and petty.

I apologize for posting in your thread to point out something that I was hearing a lot of. I just felt that it should be heard so your expectations for your thread would not exceed results, thus resulting in disappointment and a lot of unncessary planning and work.

I won't lie and say that was my main motivation -- my main motivation was to constructively criticize what you were doing, so that you could improve it or lower expectations. I honestly didn't care what you did, I just felt my opinion might be a little helpful.

Any way you look at it, I was doing you a favor. You might also take notice that I haven't posted in your thread since you "asked" (clearly a matter of debate) me not to, and I would appreciate it if you didn't try to demonize me or my attempts further.

This has been made into such a big controversy it's ridiculous. I apologize to the moderation and anyone involved for the pain, stress, and annoyance caused by all of it.

Let me get this straight... You would like a Moderator ruling purged from your thread?

If you have a complaint, you bring it here, you don't get into a pissing contest on the thread that you're complaining about.

Or, again, using the ignore function.

Frankly given the situation I don't see why that's so irrational. Nevertheless, I would ask again that every post I listed, minus the ones written by GMC, to be deleted.

I hadn't planned on getting into a bickering fest. I was under the (false) assumption that if I asked them to leave, that was it.

Also, ignoring would not work. The only reason these hijackers bother me is because everyone else can see them. It turns people away from the thread.

Alright, look. I had no intention to inflame the situation to this level. Honestly, all this bickering is stupid and petty.

I apologize for posting in your thread to point out something that I was hearing a lot of. I just felt that it should be heard so your expectations for your thread would not exceed results, thus resulting in disappointment and a lot of unncessary planning and work.

I won't lie and say that was my main motivation -- my main motivation was to constructively criticize what you were doing, so that you could improve it or lower expectations. I honestly didn't care what you did, I just felt my opinion might be a little helpful.

Any way you look at it, I was doing you a favor. You might also take notice that I haven't posted in your thread since you "asked" (clearly a matter of debate) me not to, and I would appreciate it if you didn't try to demonize me or my attempts further.

This has been made into such a big controversy it's ridiculous. I apologize to the moderation and anyone involved for the pain, stress, and annoyance caused by all of it.

Regardless if this comes as a surprise or not, I agree with you. The extention of this fight has completely caught me by surprise.

You posted your opinion, and you kind of pissed me off with the whole "I don't think people care that much about your RP's to have them be set as a standard of excellence." I saw it as unnecessary and I posted back. I asked you not to post again and you didn't. As far as I, and it seems you were concerned, the matter was closed.

Why someone else had to come in and blow on the ashes is beyond me.

I'd like to apologize, Etaros, not for what I said exactly, but for the harshness of my tone. I've had a lot of troubles lately with trolls and I lashed out. I could have said it a little better.

Frankly given the situation I don't see why that's so irrational. Nevertheless, I would ask again that every post I listed, minus the ones written by GMC, to be deleted.As stated, thread authorship doesn't exist in this case. Other players questioning your ability to write a newbie guide is no different then them questioning the latest supertank.

I hadn't planned on getting into a bickering fest. I was under the (false) assumption that if I asked them to leave, that was it."I think it would be a good idea not to post here anymore, ElectroX," is not asking.

As stated, thread authorship doesn't exist in this case. Other players questioning your ability to write a newbie guide is no different then them questioning the latest supertank.

"I think it would be a good idea not to post here anymore, ElectroX," is not asking.

But the fact remains is that ElectroX, and to a lesser extent Etaros and GMC, ruined my thread. Perhaps what is upsetting me is that this is allowed to continue, and yet something as trivial as the tone of my text becomes a big deal.

...and as I said, that quote was meant to avoid future confrontation, which, as i predicted, would consume the thread. My "advice" wasn't followed, which isn't an infraction or anything, but it let to the destruction of my thread.

But the fact remains is that ElectroX, and to a lesser extent Etaros and GMC, ruined my thread.

The thread has no content. How can you ruin something that isn't there to begin with? If you have something to offer people, write a guide, not an empty thread. You've been here long enough that you should know the common questions people ask, you can at least answer them in an initial post to demonstrate your stuff: people haven't the faintest idea what quality of answers you'll offer looking at your current set of empty sub-headings.

This seems largely where the allegations of egotism are coming from: it does seem odd to think a newbie would look at an empty thread with your name on it and think 'Wow, that guy knows what he's talking about!'

The thread has no content. How can you ruin something that isn't there to begin with? If you have something to offer people, write a guide, not an empty thread. You've been here long enough that you should know the common questions people ask, you can at least answer them in an initial post to demonstrate your stuff: people haven't the faintest idea what quality of answers you'll offer looking at your current set of empty sub-headings.

They ruined the potential of the thread. I wasn't going to simply re-hash the same pointless shit that's been stated time and time again by posting answers to questions like "what is roleplay?" or "how do you do war?"

The questions themselves would have been the content, instead of me parading around like I was some sort of RPing god with all the answers to all the questions from the get go. Funny how I was accused of doing just that still.

Something else mildly amusing is that this post that you just posted and I quoted is the first real constructive criticism of the thread itself and not me. Had this been posted in the thread, I would have considered it and maybe taken the advice. Instead, I was criticized...which led to absolutely nothing productive.

This seems largely where the allegations of egotism are coming from: it does seem odd to think a newbie would look at an empty thread with your name on it and think 'Wow, that guy knows what he's talking about!'

Still...that only focuses on one of three purposes for the thread. People with questions about Steel Butterfly itself would ask me, of course. People with questions about my RP would, of course, ask me. I put my name in the title to draw the attention of those who know me and because, frankly, I started the thread. I'm sure there are vets who don't know me, especially in II and General or the UN...I'm not trying to imply that my name will stop people in their tracks.

Still...that only focuses on one of three purposes for the thread. People with questions about Steel Butterfly itself would ask me, of course. People with questions about my RP would, of course, ask me. I put my name in the title to draw the attention of those who know me and because, frankly, I started the thread. I'm sure there are vets who don't know me, especially in II and General or the UN...I'm not trying to imply that my name will stop people in their tracks.

Yes, but that's the problem with trying to start a general-purpose OOC RP thread, national Q&A and newbie helpdesk in one thread. A newbie helpdesk thread needs you to show you can actually help people before they ask questions, or they won't ask them. That's why all the big stickied guides don't draw negative attention or allegations of egotism: the author shows he's got what it takes right off the bat. If you just imply, without showing, that you've got what it takes, then yes, people will call it showing off.

Consider, for example, a non-sticky thread titled 'I can show you how to avoid Godmoding' which only said 'Ask me anything!' What confidence do you have in that thread's writer, having seen nothing that shows he has anything to tell you?

Off the bat, all RP-related threads should have some kind of content: if that means writing up a basic FAQ of your nation for the national Q&A, do that. If that means writing brief descriptions and FAQs of your major RPs, do that. Posting a totally empty thread is like building a totally empty warehouse; people want put things in it to break up the endless expanse of nothing. With nothing to keep them on topic, people find a topic.

i suggest we lock down the forum and reopen january 2nd :p

I'm not going to get into all the 'he said' bits, 'people should do x', right vs wrong or anything else aside from a quiet observation that perhaps given past tensions and issues that in the future maybe it would be a good idea for another set of moderators to deal with issues concerning Steel. There seems to be some bad feelings brewing, rightfully or not, and it might be more helpful to get some input from those who haven't been directly involved quite so much here and in the past. Granted, I realize that most folks are out holidaying and the like, and given the time of day, no one else was likely available, but there you have it. If nothing else it would probably go a long ways towards avoiding any accusations of impartiality or 'you just don't like me' crap.

For Steel, an attempt at a helpful suggestion for reference/instructional/informational threads of this kind and all:

Use the NSWiki. It's been a wonderful resource, your content is more protected on there due to the nature of it (yes, it can be added to and changed, but if someone is actually being malicious, there are avenues for dealing with it, and all changes are logged for easy comparison etc).

It's quite easy to link a Wiki page in your sig or other places, and it's especially effective as your sig is visible in every post you make, and for those tg's you get, you can just refer folks to your link or sig. No muss, no fuss, easy access, easy to edit, no problems, and any commentary is on the talk page, not mixed in with your article.

I'm not going to get into all the 'he said' bits, 'people should do x', right vs wrong or anything else aside from a quiet observation that perhaps given past tensions and issues that in the future maybe it would be a good idea for another set of moderators to deal with issues concerning Steel. There seems to be some bad feelings brewing, rightfully or not, and it might be more helpful to get some input from those who haven't been directly involved quite so much here and in the past. Granted, I realize that most folks are out holidaying and the like, and given the time of day, no one else was likely available, but there you have it. If nothing else it would probably go a long ways towards avoiding any accusations of impartiality or 'you just don't like me' crap.

For Steel, an attempt at a helpful suggestion for reference/instructional/informational threads of this kind and all:

Use the NSWiki. It's been a wonderful resource, your content is more protected on there due to the nature of it (yes, it can be added to and changed, but if someone is actually being malicious, there are avenues for dealing with it, and all changes are logged for easy comparison etc).

It's quite easy to link a Wiki page in your sig or other places, and it's especially effective as your sig is visible in every post you make, and for those tg's you get, you can just refer folks to your link or sig. No muss, no fuss, easy access, easy to edit, no problems, and any commentary is on the talk page, not mixed in with your article.

Aye, Nathi, I don't find it coincidental at all that Hack and GMC always manage to be there whenever I am involved in something like this...and GMC always manages to be insulting some how. Then again, I don't want to whine and claim that someone on the 'squad has something against me personally, as has been hinted at, at the risk of loosing any and all credibility.

As for the wiki, thank you for the suggestion. I haven't had all that much interaction with it...and perhaps I should check it out.

Aye, Nathi, I don't find it coincidental at all that Hack and GMC always manage to be there whenever I am involved in something like this...We were both up when you made your complaint.

Never fear. I will now ignore every single request you make from here on out.

I -did- mention the time of posting as being a big factor, and that there weren't likely others on. This sort of escalation is what I was hoping to get avoided, Steel. I wasn't saying they were deliberately being nasty, I was observing that you seemed to be feeling that they were and that they have been the ones who were on hand for a lot of the things that have involved you, and that maybe it ought to wait for others so crap like you just spewed wouldn't get dragged in.

So much for that.

Anyways, best of luck with the Wiki option. I've not been able to do nearly as much with it as I'd like, but I'm sure if you take a look there, you'll see just how great an asset it can be to folks. There have been some incredible entries made with all manner of rich detail by users there.

Aye, Nathi, I don't find it coincidental at all that Hack and GMC always manage to be there whenever I am involved in something like this...and GMC always manages to be insulting some how.
Despite the fact (and yes, it is fact) that GMC's acerbic style is off-putting to some, there are more than a few nuggets of useful information in both his and Hack's posts. Rather than address the substance of the mod posts, you've chosen to personally counter-attack what you see as personal attacks against you. This is a counter-productive strategy, I assure you.

I've also reviewed this and the linked thread, and the only reason I haven't responded is that Hack and GMC covered most or all of the issues. I suspect that other mods have also done precisely the same thing.

Do you get more attention (both positive and negative) from the mods? Almost certainly. You, and another couple dozen others, frequently dominate the Moderation and Technical forums with posts, questions, and answers. Consequently, we have a tendency to look more closely at your (and the other regulars) material. People who come to our attention have a tendency to stay part of our attention.

There is a difference between favoritism and simply not noticing, a distinction that seems to evade you with some regularity. If you have a problem with other people's writing, or if you think we should be aware of potential problems, you're welcome to bring them to our attention. At this writing, there were 4,276,183 posts in our set of forums, and needless to say we don't read every one of them. If nobody points out problem areas, there's a good chance the dozen of us will miss them.

Perhaps it's time for you to look into the constructive aspect of any criticism, and stop taking everything personally. We DO try to maintain constructive answers, even in those rare cases where there is actual personal animosity. Let it go. Move on.