NationStates Jolt Archive

http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=10145526&postcount=27Comparing me to Eut, is childish at best. Get over yourself, really. You (as much as you'd like the rest of to think different) are one of the most judgmental people on this forum, then you have the nerve to offer up your own style of "PC"... works when it works for you, but if you disagree, well then it's just wrong. The world according to Sinuhue. You actually think it's a perk that people on this site think of you as the "horniest" NS player, as some sort of a good thing. I'd personally be embarrassed and look deep into myself as to why it's so important to me to give off this low self esteem image.

I call them as I see them. If you didn't have low self esteem you wouldn't say half the things you do.

Heck forbid we let kids be kids and have a little fun before they figure out it was all a fairy tale. I don't envy your children if you ever have any, as they will be so programmed it's no better than the religious freaks, only on the other far side of the spectrum.

People who get all upset over this shit, are exactly like the religious freaks. I see no difference.

No flaming was involved here.. I'll look up the thread where she drew great pleasure in this title. And she did win I might add. I can give you thread and post after post where this is exactly the image she gives off with pride. If anything she flamed me for comparing me to Eutrusca.. But I will over look it.

If you'd like links, I will be more than happy to provide them to show everything I've said is a matter of public record in the General forum... I said nothing that isn't well established on the forum.

Thanks!

No flaming was involved here.. I'll look up the thread where she drew great pleasure in this title. And she did win I might add. I can give you thread and post after post where this is exactly the image she gives off with pride. If anything she flamed me for comparing me to Eutrusca.. But I will over look it.

If you'd like links, I will be more than happy to provide them to show everything I've said is a matter of public record in the General forum... I said nothing that isn't well established on the forum.

Thanks!
Yes, well, bile is dripping from every single line of your post towards me...including where you accuse me of having 'low self-esteem' and so on. Not only that, but you seem to have totally misread my post, and overreacted to an extreme extent. I am really amazed that you have behaved in such an personally offensive way towards me...I never realised you had this depth of dislike for me. Frankly, it saddens me. But flaming it is.

And threatening that I'll be reported to moderation? For what? "Flaming again"? What are you talking about?

http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=10145784&postcount=42

I am no such thing.. I'm just not full of myself as I believe you to be.

At any rate, I will stop, before your own actions are reported to moderation again as flaming.. All I said was what you yourself have done and been coined as, not by me, but by others.

Yes, well, bile is dripping from every single line of your post towards me...

This is flaming, but please do not warn her for it, I have thicker skin than this.

including where you accuse me of having 'low self-esteem' and so on. I am really amazed that you have behaved in such an personally offensive way towards me...I never realized you had this depth of dislike for me. Frankly, it saddens me. But flaming it is.

My personal opinion is that you have low self esteem, I don't see where that could be considered a flame? I only came to that conclusion based on some of your post history. I neither like you or dislike you.. I don't know you. This was not a personal attack.. maybe it hit home because there was some truth to it? I don't know.. As I said, I just call it like I see it. This is my impression of you. Which you built with your own words, not mine. And how others apparently see you as well. So, I don't see the flame personally.

However, I will drop it, as you obviously are getting upset, perhaps overly upset as to my opinion. I'm sorry if you took it as a personal attack instead of the constructive criticism it was meant to be.

I guess all the world is a critic huh...

No worries.. I will not respond to you again on this one subject, as you don't seem able to take it for what I was trying to say and read far more into it than intended.

And threatening that I'll be reported to moderation? For what? "Flaming again"? What are you talking about?

http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=10145784&postcount=42

Actually I was saying, that you would report me again... not that I would report you.. but that your words would try to bait me into flaming you, which I have no desire to do.

Anyway, I'm done with this subject, sorry if I upset you, was not per se my intent, but I was only trying to be honest in what I believe. Perhaps I'm wrong, who knows. It was just an opinion, not a personal attack.

I will lay this to rest now.

Merry Christmas.

Steph, your opinions are just that. Your opinions. You don't know me, and you can 'interpret' my posts anyway you want...but it doesn't make your interpretation correct. Do not pretend that your post was not meant to be insulting in the extreme. Do not pretend that your comments toward me are 'constructive criticsm'...they are not. You know what rudeness is, and have demonstrated it. And again, I thank you for revealing yourself.

I can't actually be certain that Steph meant for everything she posted to be insulting, and simply felt she was being frank. However, I do agree some of what she posted were personal attacks.

/notevenclosetoamod

I'm sorry if you took it as a personal attack instead of the constructive criticism it was meant to be.

Normally I would expect 'constructive' criticism to be a bit more friendly or at the very least not so aggressive. This seems alot more personal then just a bit of helpful advise... but then, I suppose it's hard to keep your cool in a arguement at times. I wouldn't go far as to say this deserves a warning, but I really can't see this as being anything more then an arguement that has turned its focus towards the character of their opponents.

But meh, thats just my opinion, along with my opinion that you really haven't changed.

Steph, your opinions are just that. Your opinions. You don't know me, and you can 'interpret' my posts anyway you want...but it doesn't make your interpretation correct. Do not pretend that your post was not meant to be insulting in the extreme. Do not pretend that your comments toward me are 'constructive criticsm'...they are not. You know what rudeness is, and have demonstrated it. And again, I thank you for revealing yourself.

I find it interesting that you acknowledge that I don't know you or your intent, and I will agree with that. However in the same breath you seem to claim to know me and what my intent was? Some what contradicting don't you think?

Again, I will say, I did not mean to personally attack you if that is how you took it. I simply wanted to show that your history shows that if you agree with something it's 100% no matter what any one else says, yet say you're tolerant to others, when we've all seen you cast your own "opinions" that I suppose some may of taken as personal attacks.. when you disagree.

I stand by what I said.. however it really was not my intent to personally attack you, rather perhaps give you something to think about, solely based on your post history. Not of course of any knowledge of who you may or may not be in real life. I can only go by your actions on the forums.. as you well pointed out, I don't know you, or you me.

I guess we should drop the "debate" and let the mods decide if I flamed you and if I did in their "opinion" I will accept that. I however want to make clear, I have no axe to grind with Sinuhue, so if you have to warn anyone, warn me.

Normally I would expect 'constructive' criticism to be a bit more friendly or at the very least not so aggressive. This seems alot more personal then just a bit of helpful advise... but then, I suppose it's hard to keep your cool in a arguement at times. I wouldn't go far as to say this deserves a warning, but I really can't see this as being anything more then an arguement that has turned its focus towards the character of their opponents.

But meh, thats just my opinion, along with my opinion that you really haven't changed.

Well it's nice to see folks who have never been fond of me to at least try to be fair..lol ;)

*shrugs*

Thats you're opinion, personally I felt I've always been fair and even now I've made the effort to read the entire thread before stating my opinion, which I stand by.

Sinuhue's comments were pretty straight forward, I don't know Eut and their reputation but that is the only comment I could possibly imagine could be taken as an insult, but it really didn't seem like much to merit such a responce. It was afterall just a comparison of his views on a subject, and your own, and you say it doesn't matter to you anyways so I fail to see why you responded in such a way.

Sinuhue's character was never really part of the discussion, she just gave her opinion and then you gave her your opinion about her character... which isn't as nearly as bad as some of the flaming I've seen, but it wasn't needed and it was a little harsh. Even if it was just helpful advise, it wasn't asked for and it wasn't really part of the subject.

On the assumption this was all just a misunderstanding, wouldn't it just be easier to apologise for not making it clear that it wasn't a personal attack (because it hardly looks constructive to me) and let it drop in a friendly manner? If only to show goodwill?

*shrugs*

Thats you're opinion, personally I felt I've always been fair and even now I've made the effort to read the entire thread before stating my opinion, which I stand by.

Sinuhue's comments were pretty straight forward, I don't know Eut and their reputation but that is the only comment I could possibly imagine could be taken as an insult, but it really didn't seem like much to merit such a responce. It was afterall just a comparison of his views on a subject, and your own, and you say it doesn't matter to you anyways so I fail to see why you responded in such a way.

Sinuhue's character was never really part of the discussion, she just gave her opinion and then you gave her your opinion about her character... which isn't as nearly as bad as some of the flaming I've seen, but it wasn't needed and it was a little harsh. Even if it was just helpful advise, it wasn't asked for and it wasn't really part of the subject.

On the assumption this was all just a misunderstanding, wouldn't it just be easier to apologise for not making it clear that it wasn't a personal attack (because it hardly looks constructive to me) and let it drop in a friendly manner? If only to show goodwill?

Yeah, I guess that's fair. I have also already said sorry to her if I was misunderstood. However, people in the "know" on the General forum know that comparing me to Eutrusca would be taken as an insult by me. So, in the same breath I believe there was malice with that comment. However, I have thick enough skin, this would never of ended up in Mod had Sinuhue not brought it here. As stated, I have no axe to grind.

If the mods feel I deserve a warning for my words, I will accept it. I guess I was just trying to use honesty and it came back to bite me.. such is life. I'm not upset with anyone.

I do wish everyone a Merry Christmas/Happy Holidays/ Hanukkah/ect..

Peace,
Stephanie.

Looks like there was enough give and take from both sides on this one. Unless someone posts a followup, I'm considering this issue closed.

Thank you Fris.. You have my word I will not say another word on the subject. In fact I've even bowed out of my own thread.

More than anything it was meant to show how stupid this whole "Happy Holidays" .vs. "Merry Christmas" is. I think Foamy is funny and perhaps not every one shared my opinion in that. Which of course is their right. It was really meant to be light hearted.

I am truly sorry for this ending up in mod and sorry to Sin as well.

What about continuing to bait?

I would love to go on with this debate, but I must refrain as Sin has made it impossible for me to debate this thread without worry of her running to mod should I say something that she doesn't like.

Her 'constructive criticism' had nothing to do with the thread and everything to do with despising the idea of having anything in common with Eut. Then she continued to bait with the above post and this one -

I am no such thing.. I'm just not full of myself as I believe you to be.

At any rate, I will stop, before your own actions are reported to moderation again as flaming.. All I said was what you yourself have done and been coined as, not by me, but by others.

The only things I saw from Sinuhue was the originally point that one of the things she said wasn't that different than Eut's views and that the post that attacked her appeared to be full of bile and hatred and that she would no longer trust Steph.

EDIT: Nevermind. This was from before you ruled.

Looks like there was enough give and take from both sides on this one. Unless someone posts a followup, I'm considering this issue closed.
I'm requesting the issue reopened, and am submitting this as followup.

I think perhaps I did not submit enough context the first time around. I want to understand how this issue could be construed as 'enough give and take from both sides'. Since Steph continued to snipe, long after she promised to drop it in Moderation, I feel there is enough new material to add it with what is already there.

This is the original thread:http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=460617

My first post in this thread was this
http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=10145426&postcount=16
"foamy" has been blocked by Sonicwall as being on a 'mature/adult content' site. Could you maybe post the rant?

My second post was this:
http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=10145444&postcount=18

I have two small children.. and I was also a child once, all I'm trying to say is, get over it. This PC shit has gone too far. Do I think that singing "Silent Night" is going to turn my kids into religious freaks? NO! I believe no such thing. The message is leave Christmas alone. Let the kids believe in Santa and if your neighbour has a nativity scene on their front lawn, let them be, I don't believe in it.. but if they do, let them do whatever the hell they want to THEIR property... It's just gotten stupid at this point. Let people enjoy Christmas however they want.. I personally will be having a Santa type Christmas, others may have some religion in their Christmas, who cares?

As a liberal I *DO* believe that we should respect everyone's beliefs... so this was more for the "PC" crowd who some how are offended by EVERYTHING!

I don't know where other people live...but I have yet to see one actual example of any of this sort of crap...banning Christmas carols, bitching about nativity scenes and so on. Seriously...have any of YOU personally seen it?

And your definition of PC is sounding a lot like Eut's.[Moderator Edit - Cogitation] You seemed to have some trouble with the QUOTE tags, here. Fixed. [/modedit]

If you notice, the first part of this quote is asking whether or not anyone has seen real life example of this 'war on Christmas'...my point being that the whole thing seems rather overblown. I highlighted the Steph's sentence, "the PC crowd who some how are offended by EVERYTHING" and said it sounded a lot like Eut's definition of PC. Eutrusca is infamous for his 'liberal' rants, and I thought it amusing that someone who so often disagrees with him would appear to agree with him on this...that 'PC' means 'offended by everything'.

Now, I know Eut and Steph have their differences. But I had no idea that this animosity ran so deep, that Steph would ignore the bulk of my post (and twist, as I'll show in a moment) in order to focus on what she sees as a grave insult. This from the woman who says, in the Moderation thread:

This is flaming, but please do not warn her for it, I have thicker skin than this.
Apparently this is untrue. Because the level of her response to my comment was so overboard. What I get is this following reply:

http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=10145526&postcount=27
Comparing me to Eut, is childish at best. Get over yourself, really. You (as much as you'd like the rest of to think different) are one of the most judgmental people on this forum, then you have the nerve to offer up your own style of "PC"... works when it works for you, but if you disagree, well then it's just wrong. The world according to Sinuhue. You actually think it's a perk that people on this site think of you as the "horniest" NS player, as some sort of a good thing. I'd personally be embarrassed and look deep into myself as to why it's so important to me to give off this low self esteem image.

I call them as I see them. If you didn't have low self esteem you wouldn't say half the things you do.

Heck forbid we let kids be kids and have a little fun before they figure out it was all a fairy tale. I don't envy your children if you ever have any, as they will be so programmed it's no better than the religious freaks, only on the other far side of the spectrum.

People who get all upset over this shit, are exactly like the religious freaks. I see no difference.

I want to deal with this quote a bit, because it is the bulk of my complaint here. Now, Steph goes on later to tell me that it's my fault that I'm taking this as an insult because really it's something else. I'd like to point out that I am not the only one BY FAR who saw this as a shocking, and direct attack.

http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=10146013&postcount=56
come on Steph really... Sinuhue did not deserve the response you gave her, which was pretty harsh. She said your definition of PC sounded a lot like Euts, she didn't say you are just like Eut. And she asked if you saw examples of this in your personal life.

http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=10146160&postcount=59
Didn't you used to be a mod? What is the point of this post other than to personally attack the poster? Perhaps I don't know the definition of flaming and flamebaiting, but you certainly should.

http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=10147013&postcount=67
Steph, WTF?

Someone questions your point and suddenly you are making personal attacks. I thought better of you.
http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=10147069&postcount=69

Back to the original post:

Comparing me to Eut, is childish at best. Get over yourself, really. Here, Steph outlines her complaint...she believes I've compared her to Eut. Again, had I realised that her dislike of Eutrusca ran so deep, I would have avoided any such reference...but I don't exactly keep up on how bad things must have gotten between them. She goes on to attack my character, though that was not at all the subject:


You (as much as you'd like the rest of to think different) are one of the most judgmental people on this forum, then you have the nerve to offer up your own style of "PC"... works when it works for you, but if you disagree, well then it's just wrong. The world according to Sinuhue.
I'm sorry...but how do you measure that? How do you define 'most judgmental'...and how on earth do you defend yourself against that? Do we go through every single post and compare them? Because Steph will not come up squeaky clean. (Nicest Girl thread, Most Respected Nser...)




You actually think it's a perk that people on this site think of you as the "horniest" NS player, as some sort of a good thing. I'd personally be embarrassed and look deep into myself as to why it's so important to me to give off this low self esteem image. And where did this come from? Have I ever said I think it's a 'perk'? Have I linked to that thread in my signature? Have I mentioned it outside of that thread? Did I even follow it to see who won? The answer is no, each time. But she uses that as a 'justification' to tell me I have low self-esteem, and tell me in a round about way that I should be embarrassed. So she isn't swearing at me, and the flaming is more subtle than calling someone a bitch or an asshole...does that REALLY not make this flaming?



I call them as I see them. If you didn't have low self esteem you wouldn't say half the things you do. And again...the accusations that I am motivated by low self-esteem...and that she 'calls them as she sees them'...just opinions right?



Heck forbid we let kids be kids and have a little fun before they figure out it was all a fairy tale.I don't envy your children if you ever have any, as they will be so programmed it's no better than the religious freaks, only on the other far side of the spectrum.

People who get all upset over this shit, are exactly like the religious freaks. I see no difference.
And here we see that she has completely misunderstood my post as meaning...I'm not sure...maybe that I hate Christmas? When have I EVER said that? And her comment about not envying my children because they will be programmed and blah blah blah...that is truly offensive. She can say these things about my kids, and that's ok, because it's 'just her opinion'? Most flames are just someone's opinion. I also find it interesting...Steph claims to know so much about me, and my posts, yet she has forgotten the many threads she has participated in with me where we talk about our kids...I guess her memory isn't that great, since she isn't sure I have any.

I was shocked by the venom in her post. She made it extremely personal, focused it entirely on me, and not on any point I'd made. I say it was totally uncalled for. Hence my response:
http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=10145576&postcount=30
Steph, I'm very sorry that you are full of so much bile and hatred. I didn't realise it ran this deeply in you. But thank you for making it very clear to me that you are not a person to be trusted. It also amazes me that you so completely misconstrued my quote as 'ranting about Christmas'. Try again:
I'm sorry, but I don't see how I could view her post as anything BUT hateful. And so I reported it. To which she replied:

http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=10145756&postcount=2
No flaming was involved here.. I'll look up the thread where she drew great pleasure in this title. And she did win I might add. I can give you thread and post after post where this is exactly the image she gives off with pride. If anything she flamed me for comparing me to Eutrusca.. But I will over look it.

If you'd like links, I will be more than happy to provide them to show everything I've said is a matter of public record in the General forum... I said nothing that isn't well established on the forum.

Thanks!
No apology, no backing down...Steph demonstrates that she feels completely justified in saying these things. She is saying that I give off the image of 'low self-esteem' with 'great pride'? And...it is a matter of public record in the General forum that I am "one of the most judgmental posters" that I "think it's a perk to be voted horniest NSer" that I say the things I do because I have "low self esteem" that I will "program my children" and so on? I don't think so. These are her opinions, not facts. And then she wants to turn it around and say I flamed her (as she saw it, I'm willing to accept that she found it unbearably insulting) but she would 'overlook it'. Yet she did not overlook it. She decided to flame.

And again, she backs up her belief that she is 'right':

http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=10145784&postcount=42
I am no such thing.. I'm just not full of myself as I believe you to be.

At any rate, I will stop, before your own actions are reported to moderation again as flaming.. All I said was what you yourself have done and been coined as, not by me, but by others.
Now she suggests that she is just telling me how everyone actually feels about me. Kind of reminds me of high school, "Hey, did you know everyone actually thinks you suck? Not me mind you, I'm just saying what everyone else thinks."

Did I miss the "We hate Sinuhue and think she has low self esteem and is going to program her children" thread? Because Steph is once again presenting her negative opinion as fact.

Then, she alters her tune a bit, and adds in a little baiting:
http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=10145888&postcount=5
My personal opinion is that you have low self esteem, I don't see where that could be considered a flame?Now she admits finally that this is not a 'matter of public record' but rather her opinion, and an opinion can't be a flame, right? Again...most flames ARE opinions...worded in a way to insult.


I only came to that conclusion based on some of your post history. I neither like you or dislike you.. I don't know you. This was not a personal attack.. maybe it hit home because there was some truth to it? I don't know..
Baiting...if I object to her insults, they must be true, right?

As I said, I just call it like I see it. This is my impression of you. Which you built with your own words, not mine. And how others apparently see you as well. So, I don't see the flame personally. Again...it's my fault that she has said these things, because they are true to her. Oh yeah, and others. Others back her up. This kind of statement needs no proof, it can be left as spurious, right?

However, I will drop it, as you obviously are getting upset, perhaps overly upset as to my opinion. I'm sorry if you took it as a personal attack instead of the constructive criticism it was meant to be. Ah! Now I see! Constructive criticism! Wait...I thought that was supposed to be...constructive...not just insulting. Forget the fact that I never asked for her opinion of me, and let's just focus on what she has said is constructive criticism. Now, instead of insulting me, she is trying to help! By saying such negative things about me, she wants to help me improve. So, when someone flames another poster, it's an attempt to point out their flaws and allow them to grow? I don't think so. She has made it clear she feels justified in her insults, and now she wants me to believe that it's for my own good. Right. And she didn't drop it. Not for a while.

I guess all the world is a critic huh...

No worries.. I will not respond to you again on this one subject, as you don't seem able to take it for what I was trying to say and read far more into it than intended. I'm reading what she wrote. And I feel I'm pretty bang on as to what she 'intended', which was to be insulting.

Then, she continues her baiting in the original thread:

http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=10146344&postcount=62
I would love to go on with this debate, but I must refrain as Sin has made it impossible for me to debate this thread without worry of her running to mod should I say something that she doesn't like.

More than anything it was meant as a funny thread about the stupidity that people are making over "Happy Holidays" .vs "Merry Christmas" etc.. I think Foamy is a funny character, I really thought people would get a laugh out of it more than anything else.

But, this is NS after all, I should of known better. ;)
So, I have 'driven her out' of her own thread...despite the fact that our conflict had nothing at all to do with the thread topic, but rather Steph's personal attack. The bolded sentence is clear baiting, accusing me of 'tattling' for no reason, and making it seem as though she is afraid she'll get in trouble 'for nothing'. Which makes little sense if she really felt as justified in her attacks as she said she was. Repeatedly.

In Moderation she is conciliatory, and again suggest that she is trying to help me. I'm sorry, I don't buy it...she reacted to what she saw as a mortal insult, and went overboard...rather than admit to that, she 'stands by what she says' and tries to turn it into a lesson. http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=10146040&postcount=10 I stand by what I said.. however it really was not my intent to personally attack you, rather perhaps give you something to think about, solely based on your post history. Not of course of any knowledge of who you may or may not be in real life. I can only go by your actions on the forums.. as you well pointed out, I don't know you, or you me.

I guess we should drop the "debate" and let the mods decide if I flamed you and if I did in their "opinion" I will accept that. I however want to make clear, I have no axe to grind with Sinuhue, so if you have to warn anyone, warn me.

http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=10146264&postcount=13
Yeah, I guess that's fair. I have also already said sorry to her if I was misunderstood. However, people in the "know" on the General forum know that comparing me to Eutrusca would be taken as an insult by me. So, in the same breath I believe there was malice with that comment. However, I have thick enough skin, this would never of ended up in Mod had Sinuhue not brought it here. As stated, I have no axe to grind.
Steph didn't need to take it to the Mods. She flamed me enough, I'm sure she felt that her flames were 'punishment' enough. And again she claims to have 'thick skin'. It seems actually to be the opposite.

If the mods feel I deserve a warning for my words, I will accept it. I guess I was just trying to use honesty and it came back to bite me.. such is life. I'm not upset with anyone. Again, look at how flames become 'honesty' 'public record' 'opinions' and 'constructive criticism'. So if I apologise for flaming someone, but insist that the flames are all of these things (truth and so on), is my apology still valid? Will I be 'let off'?

Meanwhile, Steph is NOT done, despite saying she would not say another word on the subject. The baiting and sniping continues.

http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=10147680&postcount=77

No, it was actually an attempt to calm the situation. I have no axe to grind. Yes, Foamy is funny, that was all I was really going for. As for Sin, she is who she is. I personally prefer not to grandstand. But to each their own. Now she is accusing me of grandstanding, because I took this to moderation. Where such things belong. I refrained from commenting further in the thread itself.

I suppose comparing me to Eut really didn't help the situation. I have said sorry, I don't know what more you'd like from me?

I respect you Cat-Tribe, misguided loyalty though is not always the right way to go either. I have been here long before you and long before Sin, I only wished to stop the arguing.. if that means you see me as taking my marbles and going home, so be it. I'd rather do that anyway then start some stupid back and forth argument that neither would hurt nor help.

She also accuses Cat-Tribe of unfairly taking sides due to 'misguided loyalty', and then says she's been here longer than the both of us...making her right? I don't know. But Steph is right...she has been here longer, and she was also a mod. If anyone knows the rules, it's her. She clearly feels justified in breaking them, and in flaming and baiting, but that doesn't change the fact that this is what she is doing. Flaming, and baiting.

She gets one last jab in, to make sure everyone knows that if they were offended by her comments towards me, that's their problem. As for it being a light-hearted post...I assume she'd talking about the original topic, which she never actually discussed with me. What was taken seriously was not the topic, but rather her comments to me.
http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=10147826&postcount=83
By the way, I'm done defending myself... Just so everyone knows.

It was a light hearted post and I'm sorry if you all want to take it so seriously to the point of losing your sense of humour.. Not my problem, sounds like yours!

To sum it up. I made a comment that she felt was an insult. Rather than point that out, so that I could correct it, or let me know that she saw it as 'malicious', she flamed me. She then accused me of misunderstanding (like she misunderstood my Eut reference?), claimed her flames were well-meaning 'truths' 'opinions' 'other people's opinions' and 'constructive criticism'. She 'apologised' but continued baiting and sniping...which seems to invalidate her apology. She takes no responsibility for her words, instead laying the responsibility on myself, and anyone else who read them. Steph is not a new poster and neither am I. We know the rules, and I believe she knows she went too far, but is unwilling to admit it. I can not defend myself against personal attacks or people's opinions...it's not going to change that person's mind anyway. But I can not bear to let something like this go by unchallenged...she has flamed me, and basically told me that I am at fault for her flaming. So I bring it back to the mods.

Oh boy..

First, I did not respond to a single post by Sin after I said I wouldn't say another word to her on the subject.

Second, I did bow out of my own thread. I only went back to it late last night and Sin wasn't even online.

The only thing I even mentioned about Sin was in direct response to Cat-Tribe, not to Sin.

And no, I don't like grandstanding.. however what do you call the long 3 post diatribe above me? I call it grandstanding. Basically the first two posts are old news. She already posted it yesterday.. The third post when she finally provides new info amounted to "Sin is who she is" Wow, stop the presses, who else would she be? So is Sin saying she isn't Sin? I'm confused.

She shows you what she wants you to see, how did it end with Cat-Tribe? Not as she would have you believe..

I believe I understand what happened and most of my posts critical of you were posted before I read your apology in Moderation.

NS can be very tiring at times. I have great respect for both you and Sinuhue, so I was saddened to see you two fight. Hopefully, this will just pass over.

(And, although he is funny, I still think Foamy is full of shit. ;) )

Merry Christmas Steph :)

http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=10148170&postcount=99

She also uses Sumamba Buwhan as an example.. how did it end with Sumamba Buwhan?

http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=10146367&postcount=64

Even Hack was in the thread long after all this was said.

http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=10148214&postcount=102

So, I'm as said not the one here with the axe to grind. I think it's fairly ovbious who is though.

Oh and btw, please check the time stamp of when I posted that I was bowing out of my thread because I was worried that Sin would simply report me again if I said something she didn't like. It was before my post in mod saying I had bowed out. So just more B.S.

Just close the thread, perhaps then that can be the end of it?

Thank you.

And yes, as I said, I am done defending myself. It would appear to me like Sin is on her own personal crusade here. Give her what she wants, warn me, I just really grow tired of having to defend simple comments that almost 99% of people would never bring to mod. I know I sure wouldn't of.

However, people in the "know" on the General forum know that comparing me to Eutrusca would be taken as an insult by me. So, in the same breath I believe there was malice with that comment. In my opinion, if the Moderators had to start chasing people around because they're insulted for being compared to a poster they dislike, their job would be made infinitely harder.

I find it hard to believe that comparing you to someone you dislike for similarities they perceive would or should be considered flaming. If another poster complained about that while you were in Moderation, you'd probably tell them to grow a thicker skin.

The case is under review. The linked thread has been locked pending such review.

I will need to discuss this with Frisbeeteria, as he handed down the first judgment.

--The Modified Democratic States of Cogitation
"Think about it for a moment."
NationStates Game Moderator

In my opinion, if the Moderators had to start chasing people around because they're insulted for being compared to a poster they dislike, their job would be made infinitely harder.

I find it hard to believe that comparing you to someone you dislike for similarities they perceive would or should be considered flaming. If another poster complained about that while you were in Moderation, you'd probably tell them to grow a thicker skin.

I agree, that's why I didn't bring it to moderation. People know that Eut and I don't get along, by saying it she knew she would provoke a response by me. How could she not. Anyway, I didn't bring this to mod, she did.

The case is under review. The linked thread has been locked pending such review.

I will need to discuss this with Frisbeeteria, as he handed down the first judgment.

--The Modified Democratic States of Cogitation
"Think about it for a moment."
NationStates Game Moderator

Cog, don't bother, give me an official warning for flaming. She won't be happy until you do. It's okay, I've never had an official warning before. I can live with one. I don't think I deserve one. But if that is what it's going to take to make her happy, then please just do it.

I agree, that's why I didn't bring it to moderation. People know that Eut and I don't get along, by saying it she knew she would provoke a response by me. How could she not. Anyway, I didn't bring this to mod, she did.

I made the comment in the thread that I agreed with her and your response was to say that you respected me. I often enjoy reading your posts, but whether or not she was baiting you (and I don't consider pointing out hyperbole baiting) does not justify the response you gave. You suggested she was a bad parent. Does this seem to be an appropriate or proportionate response to you?

She sent me a telegram because your response so upset her and when I read what you'd wrote I cringed. There wasn't any part of that, that had anything to do with the thread or with what she said. Everything in that post was venom aimed at person you felt slighted by. Talking about her children really goes beyond the pale. I can't imagine that you'd find such a post justified had you not written it.

I noticed that you posted an apology here, but even your apology and later actions suggest that you feel attacking her personally and attacking her position as a parent were justified by your dislike for Eut. Not do your later actions undermine an apology, but they go furth by insisting that what you said was true and that your attacks were constructive. Merely suggesting such things is to again support the attacks you made.

And yes, later, after Fris had ruled and you AND Sin had bowed out of the thread you returned and baited her once more. I'm disappointed you'd feel that your personal attacks and continued baiting were justified regardless of whether they are ruled to be rule violations. Really I am.

Cog, don't bother, give me an official warning for flaming. She won't be happy until you do. It's okay, I've never had an official warning before. I can live with one. I don't think I deserve one. But if that is what it's going to take to make her happy, then please just do it.

See, even this baits her. I can't imagine that you don't see this.

Sorry, this doesn't really contribute in any great way to diffusing conflict, but I'd just like to say that for someone with low self-esteem, Sinuhue was remarkably helpful in preventing me from committing suicide earlier this year. Steph, you and I have been known to agree and to disagree on a number of topics, but I don't see as how slinging mud is at all helpful.

I am very grateful to have had Sinuhue there for me, in my corner, when I needed it most.

That's all I've got.

DW.

See, even this baits her. I can't imagine that you don't see this.

OMG! How on earth is telling the mods to give her what she wants baiting?

Yeah, I do respect you, also based on your posts. I've seen you debate some really good arguments.. or is that baiting too now?

Listen, I'm fully aware that Sin has her own fan-club, I'm sure the mods are aware of it too. Just like Tink use to have one before she stopped coming around as much. Oh in case someone thinks I'm taking a dig at Tink, I'm not, I think she's a sweety.

Line up and defend your friend. I don't care. I guess I could telegram a few of my friends (not saying that is what she did) just saying I could and they'd all happily come and defend me too. But I won't, because it would be childish. I will let my own words stand on there own merit. If I get warned, so be it. I don't need to feel the love.. again, no dig at anyone, just how *I* feel.

Enough with the high-school popularity contest crap. I was under the impression that you were (at least chronologically) adults.

Stephistan, you're flaming. Passive-aggressive or directed, I don't care which you want to call it, but I've had it. Stop it.

As for the linked thread and the remainder of this post, I'm going to defer to Cogitation. I'm about to head out for holiday cheer with the family, and the last thing I want to do before a road trip is clutter my brain with this mindless bickering. Max doesn't pay us enough to referee this kind of idiocy between supposed adults. Grow up, for Pete's sake. All of you.

Enough with the high-school popularity contest crap. I was under the impression that you were (at least chronologically) adults.

Stephistan, you're flaming. Passive-aggressive or directed, I don't care which you want to call it, but I've had it. Stop it.

As for the linked thread and the remainder of this post, I'm going to defer to Cogitation. I'm about to head out for holiday cheer with the family, and the last thing I want to do before a road trip is clutter my brain with this mindless bickering. Max doesn't pay us enough to referee this kind of idiocy between supposed adults. Grow up, for Pete's sake. All of you.

Despite the inference, I really do wish you a Merry Christmas.

First, posts are judged on their own merit and in context. Whether or not ordinary players consider something to be against the rules doesn't affect a final judgment by Moderators (unless a Moderator missed something the first time around). The reactions of "Sumamba Buwhan", "Jocabia", and "The Cat-Tribe" as quoted by Sinuhue don't really sway my decision.

Second, I don't make Mod decisions primarily to make people happy. I make Mod decisions primarily to maintain order and civility. Stephistan: Official Warning - Flaming and Flamebait because that's what you're doing. As Frisbeeteria alludes, it's passive-agressive in nature, but it's still flaming and flamebait. Just how severe a warning is still something I need to consult with other Moderators on, but you are warned nevertheless.

Third, from this post (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=10145576&postcount=30):
Steph, I'm very sorry that you are full of so much bile and hatred. I didn't realise it ran this deeply in you. But thank you for making it very clear to me that you are not a person to be trusted.This is a personal attack. Again, passive-agressive in nature. I need to consult with other Moderators on whether or not to issue an official warning against you for this, Sinuhue, and how severe that warning should be. Until then, I have these two things to say about my judgment: First, Stephistan's conduct in this matter was worse than yours, but second, I'm not pleased with how you chose to respond to Stephistan (said response being the one I'm quoting, above).

A general piece of advice to all: When filing a complaint in Moderation, or when defending oneself against a complaint, refrain from using sarcasm.

As Fris saw fit to lock this complaint thread, I will leave it locked. I will post if any further Mod judgment comes up on this matter.

The linked thread will be unlocked momentarily. I expect it to remain on-topic and civil.

--The Modified Democratic States of Cogitation
"Think about it for a moment."
NationStates Game Moderator