NationStates Jolt Archive

Greetings, mods.

I have a question involving politically sensitive imagery, etc. Basically, I'm thinking of role-playing a Fatherland inspired modern Third Reich, which would be an alternative history state that might have evolved had Germany won the war. It will basically just be a modern, slightly less genocidal and less racist version of 30s-era Nazi Germany.

Anyway, I understand that swastika or SS-runes are not allowed in the flag of the nation, and that is fine by me. My question is whether it would be ok to use such nazi imagery in posts on the forum, eg in fact books etc. Let me stress I'm not talking about gratutious use, etc, just images that might include such imagery in them. For example, this map: http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d134/IridianStates/map1.jpg

Of course, I'll respect your decision no matter what it is.

Regardless of the MOD decision, I'd just like to say that your map is a nice piece of work. The borders seems to reflect the opinions of most counter-factual historians regarding a Nazi "triumph". Hope you get to use it. Did you use photoshop? (Apologies to the MOD's for a rather off-topic post)

This should be acceptable, and it's really great for you to go ahead and ask. A lot of nations have much more sinister, detrimental, and even more offensive roles, so this shouldn't present a problem whatsoever. It may be important for you to clarify that you aren't attempting to further anti-Semitic ideologies (at least outside of a game context) or offend players.

By the way, great work on the map.

Well, I am most definatly in no way a mod, and probably would not make a very good one.(/disclaimer)

This map is awesome. The main thing that might get you in trouble would be that swastica in the upper left. I'd guess so long as you're incredibly careful, you'll be alright.

Also, so long as you keep it to the forum, you should be alright. Seems to me the main reason for no swasticas in flags is flags can't be debated. Neither can mottos. However, someone can bring up your use of that map on the forum in a new thread and you can discuss the IC relevance of using the swastica in context. Someone please correct me if I'm wrong on that point. It just seems that the lack of discussion is the justification of the swastical ban in flags.

again: most definatly not a mod, so don't go quotin on me.

']It's not illegal to play a Nazi nation. But if you're going to have one, making sure it doesn't send the message "Wasn't the Holocaust great!" is your problem.

So you should be OK unless the mods decide otherwise.

It seems the clear consensus is that so long as I myself am not personally advocating Nazism with the Nazi imagery, and so long as it is not gratuitous or not ICly relevant then I should be OK.

I'd still like a clarification from the moderators, however, as others in the forum have question whether I am allowed to do so. Note that none so far has objected to it or has been offended, but two have doubted whether it is permissible under the rules. An official answer would be really helpful.

If you'd like an example of exactly the type of use I mean you can check my "Introductory Thread" in my sig.

Did you use photoshop? (Apologies to the MOD's for a rather off-topic post)
I have to admit that the map was not my original creation, though I did modify it in the way I thought was more realistic. And it was one in photshop.

One piece of advice: If the mods approve this (and I'm by no means sure that they will, although I'm sure they'll appreciate you asking first), make sure that in your first post, you post a link back to this thread as proof that the mods did, in fact, approve it. It may cut down on some of the inevitable flames you'll get.

I can see plenty of reasons why they wouldn't approve it, though. Sure, your intentions are benign, but it would set a precedent that the real neo-Nazis might try to exploit. They're sneaky bastards, and already have found ways to push the anti-swastika ban to the limit.

I'm curious about where & when the history of that Earth is supposed to have diverged from ours: Does the apparent border about halfway up the Italian peninsula mean that the divergence-point was after the Allied forces had got that far, which seems a bit late for a major shift in the Germans' favour from what I know about the matter?

Greetings, mods.

I have a question involving politically sensitive imagery, etc. Basically, I'm thinking of role-playing a Fatherland inspired modern Third Reich, which would be an alternative history state that might have evolved had Germany won the war. It will basically just be a modern, slightly less genocidal and less racist version of 30s-era Nazi Germany.

Anyway, I understand that swastika or SS-runes are not allowed in the flag of the nation, and that is fine by me. My question is whether it would be ok to use such nazi imagery in posts on the forum, eg in fact books etc. Let me stress I'm not talking about gratutious use, etc, just images that might include such imagery in them. For example, this map: http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d134/IridianStates/map1.jpg

Of course, I'll respect your decision no matter what it is.

It isn't against the rules to have a Nazi-like nation in the forums. It also isn't against the rules to use nazi imagery within your posts. Just as long as everything is written tastefully (Just don't mix OOC with IC; not saying you have that belief, just making a note), you'll be fine.

I'm curious about where & when the history of that Earth is supposed to have diverged from ours: Does the apparent border about halfway up the Italian peninsula mean that the divergence-point was after the Allied forces had got that far, which seems a bit late for a major shift in the Germans' favour from what I know about the matter?

The first divergence occurs in 1941, when Germany shift to a total war economy (unlike in 1943, as happened in the real world). The primary divergence occured in 1942. Rather then spliting Army Group South into A and B, in order to take Stalingrad and the Caucasus simultaneously, the Army Group undertakes the original plan of first securing the districts of Stalingrad and then the oilfields, severing the Volga and Russia's oil supply by the end of 1942. This allows a major German campaign north to re-attempt to take Moscow in 1943, which is successful. The allies also lauch their invasion of Italy at this time but are stopped at the "Gothic Line". Russia sues for peace by 1944 with the fall of Leningrad and follow-on German campaigns which put the liberation of Moscow beyond all doubt, not to mention the fact the oil shortages have become fatal by this stage. The Soviet Union never recovers.

On the other side of Europe, the Normandy invasion never comes (as numerous German divisions have been sent there, rendering any invasion plan impossible) and the Second Battle of Britain begins, which is sucessful in beating the UK by the end of 1944. Nuclear bombs are dropped on New York the following year which forces the Americans to conclude a peace treaty.

That is amazing. I thought I was good at WWII stuff... but wow.

The first divergence occurs in 1941, when Germany shift to a total war economy (unlike in 1943, as happened in the real world). The primary divergence occured in 1942. Rather then spliting Army Group South into A and B, in order to take Stalingrad and the Caucasus simultaneously, the Army Group undertakes the original plan of first securing the districts of Stalingrad and then the oilfields, severing the Volga and Russia's oil supply by the end of 1942. This allows a major German campaign north to re-attempt to take Moscow in 1943, which is successful. The allies also lauch their invasion of Italy at this time but are stopped at the "Gothic Line". Russia sues for peace by 1944 with the fall of Leningrad and follow-on German campaigns which put the liberation of Moscow beyond all doubt, not to mention the fact the oil shortages have become fatal by this stage. The Soviet Union never recovers.

On the other side of Europe, the Normandy invasion never comes (as numerous German divisions have been sent there, rendering any invasion plan impossible) and the Second Battle of Britain begins, which is sucessful in beating the UK by the end of 1944. Nuclear bombs are dropped on New York the following year which forces the Americans to conclude a peace treaty.

I see (although I have some doubts about the plausibility). And that peace treaty actually left the Allies in control of southern Italy?!?

This isn't history class. Take the discussion of WWII and various counterfactuals elsewhere.