NationStates Jolt Archive

In the 'One-Stop Rules Thread', we are instructed that stealing someone else's weapons design, etc (aka stealing a large portion of text unaltered) would be trolling. But what if someone's explicitly violating real-life copyright by stealing literally 10 pages of copyrighted text from a site, only altered a little for his own use? Would a blatant violation of RL copyright, taken place on this forum, still be a violation of the rules?

BTW - This (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=453032) is what I'm talking about. Compare it to the contents here (http://www.sinodefence.com).

bump

Thanks for the bump. I'm still curious as to why this important question has still been not addressed by any member of the moderator staff. Evidentally there is a need for something to be done in the face of such blatant RL copyright violations.

People rip things off -all- the time in here. Take a look at a majority of sig-pics, pictures for their ships, their cities, their troops, and just about anything else you can use that way. Even entire nation concepts are taken directly from copyrighted material, true to form or wanked nearly beyond recognition save names. Stats for equipment? Again, have seen them grabbed wholesale from sourcebooks or online gaming resources time and again. I'm not entirely familiar with hard copyright rules, but you can't say anyone here is making a profit off this sort of borrowing. And on a site like this, with so much going on, I would imagine it could be kind of difficult to monitor every possible instance.

In any case, interested in what the mods have to say on it, all things considered. I'd imagine they're probably taking their time on this one given the possible scope. Frankly would hate to see everything get nixed. Like I said, it's not like we're making any profit here.

Just because "everyone else is doing it" doesn't mean that ripping off someone else's work is acceptable behaviour. I'm not suggesting that's what you're saying Dread Lady Nathicana, but there appear to be specific rules in place against ripping off someone else's unique NS designs or characters. I'd just like to see how that applies to RL works.

In any case, interested in what the mods have to say on it, all things considered. I'd imagine they're probably taking their time on this one given the possible scope.

That's my feeling as well.

Frankly would hate to see everything get nixed. Like I said, it's not like we're making any profit here.

Certainly not. I've never made any real money off of the HRMC vehicles I've sold. Roleplayed money, sure, but it ain't real income in an RL legal context.

I also hope we don't have to start eliminating all copyright violations. It would probably mean serious recruitment for more Moderators, and rules lawyering in a way that's never been done on such a scale previously on this site.

I'm no lawyer, but my understanding is that under Australian law (I am not clear upon British or American law, but I imagine that they are not completely different), he could get away with that provided that the copyrighted portion did not exceed ten percent of the written work in question.

Our copyright act also states:

(2) For the purposes of this Act, the matters to which regard shall be had, in determining whether a dealing with a literary, dramatic, musical or artistic work or with an adaptation of a literary, dramatic or musical work, being a dealing by way of reproducing the whole or a part of the work or adaptation, constitutes a fair dealing with the work or adaptation for the purpose of research or study include:

(a) the purpose and character of the dealing;

(b) the nature of the work or adaptation
(d) the effect of the dealing upon the potential market for, or value of, the work or adaptation; and

(e) in a case where part only of the work or adaptation is copied - the amount and substantiality of the part;

(c) the possibility of obtaining the work or adaptation within a reasonable time at an ordinary commercial price; copied taken in relation to the whole work or adaptation.

From this, it would be my interpretation that under Australian law that such adaption of literary material would not constitute breach of copyright. It would be considered "fair use", considering the nature of the work (being a work of role-play fiction on an online forum), also that there is no market or or monetary value for such an adaption, as well as a decidedly limited audience, and also considering the relatively small size of what was posted that it probably wasn't a ripoff of an entire published work, instead only a small portion of one.

I'm not sure how different laws of other nations are, but I hope this provides some food for thought.

Just because "everyone else is doing it" doesn't mean that ripping off someone else's work is acceptable behaviour. I'm not suggesting that's what you're saying Dread Lady Nathicana, but there appear to be specific rules in place against ripping off someone else's unique NS designs or characters. I'd just like to see how that applies to RL works.

No, not saying it's a good thing. Was more commentary on what can easily be seen in perusing the boards. For example, I've used publicly-available photos for limited sigpic use or illustration where it served a purpose, but my own ships are either my own designs, or legitimately purchased ic'ly. *shrugs* I'm saying it would be difficult to enforce in totality given just how much gets borrowed, to one extent or other - outright rip-off, or borrowed concept or names only. It's more a question of where the lines are drawn, I'd think.

Given they've made a statement on ripping off your fellow player's things, and considering that's much more enforceable, I think I'd rather see that pursued for the most part. Though admittedly, if something is just ripped entirely from a rulesbook etc, that shows pretty poor craftsmanship on the part of the player. Perhaps go that direction if a case can be proven? Just not sure how it applies in a freeform game setting, all things considered.


Edit: Grazie, Kanabia. I'd thought intent/content and monetary gain had a lot to do with it. If that's the case, I'd say most things on NS would be relatively 'safe', whether we agree with folks doing it or not.

None of the moderators are lawyers, particularly in the area of international copyright laws. Our opinions on that topic would probably be less relevant than that of one of our Generalites who actually practice law.

With that said, I point you to http://www.nationstates.net/pages/legal.html
You may submit content to NationStates.net so long as it is not obscene, illegal, threatening, malicious, or defamatory, does not invade the privacy or infringe the intellectual property of a third party, and does not constitute "spam." You may not use a false e-mail address, impersonate any person or entity, attempt to "hack" the site or another player's account, nor otherwise mislead as to the origin of information.

Where your country of access imposes laws regulating this web site, you agree to use your best efforts to comply with them.

The portion of the content of this web site that has not been submitted by users is copyright under international law Max Barry 2002-2003.
In summary, we are not the intellectual property cops. You must regulate yourself.

I think it's poor form to blatantly copy other sites without at least making a serious attempt to adapt it to the world of NS, but I can't say whether it's legal or not. I know that if format were copyrighted, an awful lot of NS and NSwiki nations would be slammed for using the CIA Factbook format. Haven't heard any complaints on that one yet.

This is not intended as a definitive site answer - this is my interpretation of copyright use on this site. If any other mod (or player) has more definitive information, please feel free to post it.

Thread closed.

http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=9913763&postcount=23

It is delightful to see that the moderation staff has decided to make a final decision on this matter at hand. My gratitude.