NationStates Jolt Archive

I have a question. And first off, let me thank you for locking the thread.

However, how is it materially different to be openly soliciting emails so you can distribute pornography as opposed to posting a link to the pictures directly?


http://forums2.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=9847855&postcount=9


Frankly, neither should be acceptable here given the age distribution of the players, nor is this the first time that he has done this.

But the word is now out and visible on the forum - send him an email and he will send you porn, without - I assume - any age check first.


I do not know whether that is actionable in Britain or not give the server's location, however it is certainly a rather distatefull thing to have to deal with here. A supposedly adult male offering pictures to minors of he and his wife engaging in group sex.


As a parent, this is rather abhorrent to me that this site has allowed this to occur on more than one occassion.

While we're at it, is there any penalty for inciting breaking forum rules particularly in such a knowing way? The OP said plainly that he was trying to encourage Sierra to violate the rules.

While we're at it, is there any penalty for inciting breaking forum rules particularly in such a knowing way? The OP said plainly that he was trying to encourage Sierra to violate the rules.


Incitement is not an excuse for the action taken of offering to skate as close to the line as he felt possible.

And you must also consider how OP knew that he/she could incite this. What? A lucky guess?

Or because this "service" has been offered to people before?

Incitement is not an excuse for the action taken of offering to skate as close to the line as he felt possible.

And you must also consider how OP knew that he/she could incite this. What? A lucky guess?

Or because this "service" has been offered to people before?

Oh, I'm not excusing the action. If I encourage you to stab your girlfriend it's still your fault if you do it. But for me to do so should be actionable, particularly if I had reason to believe you'd actually do it.

I'm pretty sure Cluichstan was joking. As for the pornography, I don't believe morality is an argument. It is simply a question of legality, and then site policy. Clearly, I can't answer on those fronts.

I'm pretty sure Cluichstan was joking. As for the pornography, I don't believe morality is an argument. It is simply a question of legality, and then site policy. Clearly, I can't answer on those fronts.


Which is why I based my question on the possible legality and policy interpretation regarding solicitation for the purposes of distribution.

Frankly I thought that solicitation for other web sites already was against policy. Trying to sneak it by using the 'email me' method notwithstanding. The fact that the content could also make this an illegal act only compounds the issue, and the TOS clearly mentions a ban on obscene content.


If the site here feels that this as acceptable end-run around content rules - fine. But I'll be filtering the site on my home network as I wouldn't want my son playing around in my favourites list so just that he can get offered porn here.

He can find his own damn porn.... when he's a little bit older....

Frankly I thought that solicitation for other web sites already was against policy. Trying to sneak it by using the 'email me' method notwithstanding. The fact that the content could also make this an illegal act only compounds the issue, and the TOS clearly mentions a ban on obscene content.

Doesn't it only explicitly ban links and actual in post content?

Doesn't it only explicitly ban links and actual in post content?

This is why I am asking, although most ToS's have a general statement that you cannot do anything illegal.


Now, the FBI has this to say on the subject:

http://www.fbi.gov/publications/pguide/pguidee.htm

Should any of the following situations arise in your household, via the Internet or on-line service, you should immediately contact your local or state law enforcement agency, the FBI, and the National Center for Missing and Exploited Children:

-Your child or anyone in the household has received child pornography;
-Your child has been sexually solicited by someone who knows that your child is under 18 years of age;
-Your child has received sexually explicit images from someone that knows your child is under the age of 18.

If one of these scenarios occurs, keep the computer turned off in order to preserve any evidence for future law enforcement use. Unless directed to do so by the law enforcement agency, you should not attempt to copy any of the images and/or text found on the computer.



And I understand that Sierra is been a long-time player and so is aware that a good percentage of people here are underage. As such, I would wager that he has already broken the law in the US if any of the people he sent the link to were underage Americans. Because willfull blindness by not asking under the circumstances would probably not fly in court.


However Jolt is, of course, based in the UK which is why I questioned British law on this issue.

Doesn't it only explicitly ban links and actual in post content?
I haven't had time to investigate this fully, but the above statement is most assuredly not true. Anyone using any method to distribute material forbidden by the terms of service will be dealt with by moderation. That includes offering to email it, putting links in your sig, putting non-clickable links on your messageboard, sending unsolcited telegrams offering forbidden material, or any other method we haven't thought to explicitly list but is done using our resources.

Given that mods are volunteers, and that most of us who are active at this time are slipping in during work (and can't fully explore the full details - I know I can't), sometimes we don't act immediately. Given also that we don't read every thread or visit every region, we are dependent on having violations reported. Sure, we'll catch some serendipitously on a regular basis, and certain troublemakers may get more regular 'serendipitious' visits than others, but you are our front line. If we don't know about it, we don't / won't / can't address it.

Silliopolous, if you've had a problem with this in the past, you should have reported it. If you did, and no action was taken (or no explanation of why action wasn't taken was forthcoming), you should have escalated the issue. We have multiple ways of being reached. Use them.

Silliopolous, if you've had a problem with this in the past, you should have reported it. If you did, and no action was taken (or no explanation of why action wasn't taken was forthcoming), you should have escalated the issue. We have multiple ways of being reached. Use them.

Frisbeeteria. You're right - I should have mentioned it the first time I noticed it. But on that occassion I wasn't sure if he meant it, and to be honest didn't really follow the thread all that closely because the "personal life" threads don't normally interest me.

But subsequent comments and threads by him have convinced me that it is for real, with this last one being the final straw that forced me to come here.

Now, to be up front in case anyone tries to call this personal, yes Sierra and I have had many debates as we clearly have opposite political opinions. But that is hardly unique as many people here have opposite opinions to me.
I haven't complained about anyone else here though.

And, to be honest, I really could care less how he and his wife conduct their personal lives. Nor do I care if he wishes to discuss that lifestyle on it's merits here. I am not a prude.

However when he starts soliciting to distribute pictures, well at that point I object. Because I'm a parent and this strikes too close to home. This is a supposed adult acting in an inapropriate and likely illegal manner as it pertains to their dealings with children.

And I will be very dissapointed if this is determined to be acceptable behaviour here.

I know, you hate to see these things bumped, but because of its nature this one really bugs me. So, I did some digging:

Here are two other examples of such solicitation


http://forums2.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=9704292&postcount=187

http://forums2.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=9683210&postcount=130


The first an individual invite, the second - another cattle call.


For those of you who are horny, and would want to become more horny, and who would want to walk into areas of marriage that others fear to tread, I would post a link to my personal blog, but I'm afraid that the mods here might think it was TOO MUCH. So, if you want a link to my blog, send me a telegram.



So clearly this is a pattern with this Whispering Legs / Sierra person.

Now the question is simple: Are people allowed to solicit members here for the purposes of distributing pornography?

I know, you hate to see these things bumped, but because of its nature this one really bugs me. So, I did some digging:

Here are two other examples of such solicitation


http://forums2.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=9704292&postcount=187

http://forums2.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=9683210&postcount=130


The first an individual invite, the second - another cattle call.




So clearly this is a pattern with this Whispering Legs / Sierra person.

Now the question is simple: Are people allowed to solicit members here for the purposes of distributing pornography?

I disagree. Such things should be bumped until they are dealt with. I actually like the poster who is the subject of this thread but I find it difficult to accept such acts and I can't imagine such behavior is allowed by either Jolt or NS. I would like to find out what is the policy on such things.

*Bump*

I know this is a very complicated question, but it has been several days. I'm quite curious on the policy on these types of things.

*bumparooni*

We are currently reviewing this, so I ask that everyone be patient.

Yeah, I was just keeping it on the page. I know it's a big one. You know, I guess I don't always notice how responsive y'all normally are, but today everyone was busy and there wasn't the normal quick responses and it was so obvious that it bears commenting on. Today may have been a little slow, but I have to commend you on how quickly you generally deal with our issues. Thanks for addressing this.

Euro you might want to look at his reply to you
http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=9875006&postcount=510

The blog in question is resident on Blogger. It complies with US laws regarding pornography - even though it is not a commercial site.

I would add that if I have sent a link to anyone, I have made fairly sure that they are adults.

The blog itself is easily accessible on the Internet and contains no pictures or text that could be remotely considered illegal in the US.

I personally think that this is all about Silliopolous not liking my opinions, and wanting me silenced, one way or the other.

But the word is now out and visible on the forum - send him an email and he will send you porn, without - I assume - any age check first.

Wrong.

I'm pretty sure Cluichstan was joking. As for the pornography, I don't believe morality is an argument. It is simply a question of legality, and then site policy. Clearly, I can't answer on those fronts.

I was joking. The fact that people actually took it seriously, frankly, at once shocks and disappoints me.

You will also notice that I did not put the link on the forums.

I might add that considering the plethora of threads about sex (not all of which I have participated in), and the threads about the details of the use of illicit drugs (and encouragement thereof), that this isn't a forum where children should be in the first place.

Any enforcement of rules in that sense seems to be nearly non-existent, or applied in a most inconsistent manner.

http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=452281

Here's a thread that I'm not part of that should shock Silliopolous. One could construe this thread as teaching kids about sex toys.

Euro you might want to look at his reply to you
http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=9875006&postcount=510

http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=9876009&postcount=520

http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=452281

Here's a thread that I'm not part of that should shock Silliopolous. One could construe this thread as teaching kids about sex toys.

Moved over to spam.

Moved over to spam.
Can I ask why?
It didn't seem nearly as raunchy as the old sex and lingerie threads, and there were genuine points to debate...

Can I ask why?
It didn't seem nearly as raunchy as the old sex and lingerie threads, and there were genuine points to debate...

The thread itself was making a turn to becoming explicit, particularly at Fass's post.

The blog in question is resident on Blogger. It complies with US laws regarding pornography - even though it is not a commercial site.

I would add that if I have sent a link to anyone, I have made fairly sure that they are adults.

The blog itself is easily accessible on the Internet and contains no pictures or text that could be remotely considered illegal in the US.


If the content is innocuous, why NOT give the link? If it isn't - as I would assume based on some people's posted responses to a picture I gather you directed them to - then you're being less than truthfull.

The second cattle-call I posted where you are calling on all "horny people who want to become hornier" pretty much sums it up.

And just how did you determine the ages of the people who asked for the link? Just ask?

Sorry, but in the thread that started all this (http://forums2.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=451396) all that was said to your claim that you took pictures was "prove it" by DHomme (plus a couple of other comments by people), to which you responded "Check your TG's", and Neo Kervoskia (http://forums2.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=9847999&postcount=23) replies with "Wow...that picture was busier than a Chinese whore house."

So, specifically WHAT did you do to verify the ages of these people prior to sending them pornographic images? Because I don't see shit!

Like I said - if you're into swinging that's fine. I DON'T CARE! but repeatedly soliciting people - many likely minors - to go and view your site to "get horny" or to whom you will happily TG graphic images is, in my opinion, not something in line with what is desired OR permitted here.

I personally think that this is all about Silliopolous not liking my opinions, and wanting me silenced, one way or the other.


I didn't ask for you to be banned. I am just pointing out something in your behaviour that I feel is inappropriate and should not be permitted here. You are far from the only person here with opposite opinions to myself, and yet you are the only person I have complained about - and the matter that I disagree with has NOTHING TO DO WITH YOUR POLITICS!


Sheesh - get over yourself.

Because it you really though that it was all fine and dandy entertainment for all ages on your site, well then you just would have posted the damn link.

Instead you send out cattle-calls for people to TG or email you so you can pass it along, thereby trying to skirt the rules.

Your actions, sir, speak for themselves.

WL, you know I'm a fan of yours, so it's not personal, but I have to agree that if the content isn't appropriate for this site then it shouldn't be advertised on or via this site. Either way, it's not up to any of us, it's up to the mods.

So, specifically WHAT did you do to verify the ages of these people prior to sending them pornographic images? Because I don't see shit!

I happen to personally know the people I sent links to. That's why you don't see anything.

WL, you know I'm a fan of yours, so it's not personal, but I have to agree that if the content isn't appropriate for this site then it shouldn't be advertised on or via this site. Either way, it's not up to any of us, it's up to the mods.

It's not advertisement, for the last time.

If the content is innocuous, why NOT give the link? If it isn't - as I would assume based on some people's posted responses to a picture I gather you directed them to - then you're being less than truthfull.


Because this is the way that everyone so far has agreed on exchanging any type of information that would otherwise risk being offensive to others.

Shall I point out the number of posts that indicate "google this and find it yourself", or the number of "TG me for the link"?

I've been on here a long time - long enough to see that sort of thing over and over and over again - and not a word was ever said in Moderation, nor any complaints raised, even when people were openly soliticing sex with each other.

It's only come up now because YOU brought it up.

It's not advertisement, for the last time.

Perhaps I don't know what an advertisement is then.

For those of you who are horny, and would want to become more horny, and who would want to walk into areas of marriage that others fear to tread, I would post a link to my personal blog, but I'm afraid that the mods here might think it was TOO MUCH. So, if you want a link to my blog, send me a telegram.

This, to me, reads like an advertisement. Anyway, what I think or even what you think doesn't matter, let's just be patient and give the mods time to address this.

To reiterate, WL, I honestly like you and I hope that if anything happens that it's just a request for you to stop. I really don't like this one thing. I can see that you're a bit angry about this and, well, I would be too, in your shoes, but I hope you can seperate this disagreement on what policy should be from our other interactions.

I didn't ask for you to be banned. I am just pointing out something in your behaviour that I feel is inappropriate and should not be permitted here. You are far from the only person here with opposite opinions to myself, and yet you are the only person I have complained about - and the matter that I disagree with has NOTHING TO DO WITH YOUR POLITICS!
That is only because you haven't found anything to complain to Moderation about any other conservative poster.

Okay, how about we all just let the moderators do their job? Nothing that's being said here helps the situation or resolves it any faster. We get it, you guys don't like one another. Fine. This isn't the place to explore that.

As an example, I've pointed out several threads that were sexually offensive to Euroslavia this morning - and Silliopolous was completely silent on those - and they had existed all day yesterday without a single comment from Silliopolous.

No, it's obvious that Silli is not generally offended at all.

As an example, I've pointed out several threads that were sexually offensive to Euroslavia this morning - and Silliopolous was completely silent on those - and they had existed all day yesterday without a single comment from Silliopolous.

No, it's obvious that Silli is not generally offended at all.

You do realize that none of our opinions matter here, yes? You can objectively prove Silliopolous is just out to get you and it will accomplish nothing. Similarly, things between you and Silliopolous could be as he describes and still no bearing on the outcome. However, spamming this thread does have the potential to generate a bad outcome so I recommend again that you just sit quietly and wait for the decision.

As an example, I've pointed out several threads that were sexually offensive to Euroslavia this morning - and Silliopolous was completely silent on those - and they had existed all day yesterday without a single comment from Silliopolous.

No, it's obvious that Silli is not generally offended at all.

For the record, I was hardly on the boards yesterday or this morning - nor do I read every thread. And, as mentioned, you have pointed out these threads and the Mods have ruled on them - so what? You want me to complain about them again for you?


And you're right - I'm not generally offended. The discussions and comments made WITHIN the threads I leave to the Mods to handle accordingly.

But I still feel that your repeated tactics to offer people to view inappropriate material offsite is against the rules of the board. Obviously, you disagree. Yours was the case that I noticed that I felt crossed the line, and so I am awaiting a ruling on it before I might complain about anyone elses actions. No sense clogging up the court until precedent has been set.

Whether or not it has been along-term policy to ignore this behaviour is neither within my scope of knowledge, nor is it material to me. The fact is that I HAVE noticed this behaviour - by you as it turned out - and I want clarification as to if it is acceptible or not. Because, as mentioned, I have children who do sometimes access one of my computers. If this is allowed behaviour here then I need to block this site from general access from my network.


Now if you want to believe that this is personal, that's up to you. I really don't care. But the notion that I picked this because I couldn't possibly have found anything ever to complain about from any other Conservative poster is ludicrous. There are those who flame, flaimbait, troll, and spam here that espouse positions on all sides of the political spectrum.

For you to state otherwise is completely disingenuous.

snip
I've been on here a long time - long enough to see that sort of thing over and over and over again - and not a word was ever said in Moderation, nor any complaints
snip
Well then it should have been

This situation has been resolved. iLock.