NationStates Jolt Archive

Yes, its me again. Our region has decided to refound so we can help keep up our defence from invaders. To do this obviously all members need to exit the region. The problem is that a majority of the members havent been active for quite some time now (around 10 days+). Pretty much all the active naitons have already moved and I began ejecting inactive members from the region a few days ago. Today I recived a message:

"You've just ejected the last possible nation you can legally eject. As Delegate, you do NOT have the right to slowly empty the region via ejection, REGARDLESS of what may have been decided on your offsite forums. If you want this region refounded, ALL remaining nations must exit the region VOLUNTARILY, without being ejected. Failure to observe this rule will result in your deletion, possibly with the additional deletion of your endorsers and your other nations."

Which I totally agree with, and have no problem with. I was wondering if it would be possible for the members who have already moved to come back and even bring in other nations from other regions and then continue ejecting the inactive nations from the region (as the percentage of members ejected would be acceptable then) until they're gone. Anyway, if someone could answer this I would appreciate it. Thanks,

Bourgania

Since this is a rules question and not a Technical issue, iMove to Moderation.

Refounding is always difficult, as it should be. Since the UN Delegate typically represents only a small portion of the region (sometimes a single endorsement in a 50+ region), the other players have to have a voice. That voice is expressed by having them click the link and move to another region. It's the only fair way to 'cast their ballots' for refounding. (Note that these rules do not apply to Founders, who may legally eject any and all nations at any time, for any reason.)

Your idea is interesting, but I'm not sure it's legal. We'll have to discuss this a bit before a decision is handed down. If we haven't responded within 48 hours, you may bump the topic again.

The rules say that ejecting nations to refound, is griefing. Personally I don't think you'll get any help finding loopholes in this.

Nbura is ranked 72,904th in the world for Fastest-Growing Economies.

Most Recent Government Activity: 27 days ago

The Nova Roman Empire is ranked 1100th in the region and 76,521st in the world for Fastest-Growing Economies.

Most Recent Government Activity: 27 days ago

5 hours ago: The Dominion of The Alturian Empire departed this region for The Rejected Realms
5 hours ago: The Bourganian Delegate of Hithra ejected The Dominion of The Alturian Empire from the region.
5 hours ago: The Armed Republic of Nbura departed this region for The Rejected Realms
5 hours ago: The Bourganian Delegate of Hithra ejected The Armed Republic of Nbura from the region.
1 day ago: The Bourganian Delegate of Hithra removed The Republic of The Nova Roman Empire from the regional ban list.
1 day ago: The Bourganian Delegate of Hithra removed The Republic of Semper Veritas from the regional ban list.
1 day ago: The Republic of The Nova Roman Empire departed this region for The Rejected Realms

Why would you eject a nation who's gonna cease to exist the very next day? Seems more like you are just a bit trigger happy. When that nation turns out to be on vacation mode, that means that he didn't want to leave. What is so hard to understand about that? To me you are way to trigger happy.

It would seem like that was against the spirit of the rules on what an internally elected delegate could do. You're ejecting nations *knowing* that the others will move out under your command. It seems it would be harder to detect than the way you initially tried, but should it really be treated in a different manner?

The rules say that ejecting nations to refound, is griefing. Personally I don't think you'll get any help finding loopholes in this.

The thing is, ejecting a portion of the nation in a region can't be found as guilty of griefing. Correct me if I'm wrong- but aren't the rules that as delegate, you cannot eject a certain percent of the members from the region? If other natives were to come back into the region, thus rasing the number of inhabitants-legally, would I be able to eject the remaining nations as long as not to exceed the percentage?

Why would you eject a nation who's gonna cease to exist the very next day? Seems more like you are just a bit trigger happy. When that nation turns out to be on vacation mode, that means that he didn't want to leave. What is so hard to understand about that? To me you are way to trigger happy.

Is this relevent to the issue or question? No. My question is to whether I can bring other nations into the region to raise the total member count and allow me to legally eject inactive members from the region. Yes, looking now, it didnt make much sence to eject members who would be deleted, but at the time I was simply ejecting members who had been inactive for more than a week. It's not like I ejected them and wasn't planning on letting them back in or anything- If you look in their Telegram Boxes, you'll find a telegram from me explaining why I ejected them and telling them that they are welcome back to the region once they return.

All I want to know is if I can bring in nations from other regions and natives that have left- or even just natives- to eject the remaining inactive nations. It abides by the rules- I just want to makes sure its ok. The immidiate effects wouldn't be greifing to refound, It would simply be ejecting a few nations. It's just that after that we would be refounding. It'd be no differant than if we just randomly decided to refound after those members had been ejected for not participating in the region. Please let me know, I appriciate your responses- Just trying to get things straight :) If I cant, I'll accept it and move on.

Oh and thank you Frisbeeteria for you help.

I'd think it would set a bad precedent, then again, don't listen to me, what do i know? :p

* Around 2 month ago, I sent this message to a moderator:

----------------------------------------------
Dear Mod,
All the nations in my region want to appoint a founder, in order to protect ourselves from invations.

We have talk about this and we found two solutions:
1) Can you appoint directly a founder?
2) In case not, we have decided to leave the region, pass-protect it, let it die and then refound it again. Can you tell me the time (GMT+?) in wich the game automatically erase empty regions and how many days should pass in order to be consider "empty"?

- Im attaching Regional Happenings and Regional Messageboard -

Thank you.
The-CID
----------------------------------------------

* The answer was:
--------------------------------------------
1) Sorry, we do not appoint founders by request...
2) Major Update time: Between 2 to 4 AM EST (GMT +0 = EST -5)
----------------------------------------------

Now, one of our nations told me that if I eject the nations that may be considering griefing... therefore, most of them has been invited to leave; however there are inactive regions...

The solution we have found is this one:
Due there are just a few nations that are inactive (2 or 3 in a total of 9... but thats 33%), we have decide to:

1) Create new nations and sent them to our region.
2) Once he have create enough of them , eject the inactive ones.
3) Leave the region, pass-protect it and then re-built it.

The main problem here is that we NEED a moderator to look after this "process" in order to keep things rolling...

We have come to a decision about the exact day we will carry this on... Can a MOD help us?

Thanks in Advance.
The-CID

PS: Just wondering: Which is the max allowed % of ejected nations??????

After discussion, the official decision is: No. You cannot move natives back into the region jsut so that you can eject more inactives.

Allowing such a thing requires us to spend even more time verifying or refuting the nativity of nations and we don't see the gain to the NationStates community to be worth the additional effort on our part. You must wait for the inactives to auto-delete.

You can put up a password so that noone else can get in, but that's it. Just be patient.

If one of the currently-inactive residents wakes up and decides to stay put, then you can't refound the region.

--The Modified Democratic States of Cogitation
NationStates Game Moderator

Ok, thats fine. I understand and wouldnt want to make your guy's workload any bigger. Thanks for the consideration-just trying to speed up the process. I only fear that some inactive members may get back on and not check thier PMs-just address thier issues and get off (one nation in particular). Oh well-I can only hope for the best! lol.

I wonder if when a native cease to exist, is revived from lazarus, is still a native. I think you you can bar them from returning, but I am not sure though.
Sometimes puppetmasters are a bit to late in reactivating their nations and want to get back into the region as fast as possible.

Im also wondering what the "legal" number of nations a delegate can eject, is?

I seem to recall Francos Spain, eject countless millions of nations to maintain his delegacy.
I want to say that the Mods allowed it for the longest time, but I honestly dont remember, its been awhile.

Maybe that rule was created becuase of that?

Im also wondering what the "legal" number of nations a delegate can eject, is?

I seem to recall Francos Spain, eject countless millions of nations to maintain his delegacy.
I want to say that the Mods allowed it for the longest time, but I honestly dont remember, its been awhile.

Maybe that rule was created becuase of that?
There's no legal *number* but the mods have some general percentages that depend if you're classed as an invader or internally elected. It is repeatedly stated that the percentages are NOT fixed, but the usual quoted numbers are (I believe) 40% for an internally elected delegate and 20% for an invader. Francos Spain controlled a feeder, it was close to impossible for him to kick out a high enough percentage of his region.

Don't think I totally correct but The Pacific (or any feeder) isn't the right region to compare with a player created region.

First off all, unless it has changed, no nation in a feeder is a native. (I think it was so). Thus you cannot grief a pacific as a 'invader'.

Secondly, during all the mess with francos spain a caps on total amount of banned nations was implemented. Wich means if someone keeps kicking.. the first banned can come back if the cap is reached.

And I am only guessing, but I think a feeder would drop noticible before moderators would stop the delegate from his doings.

Well, thats good news to me! :)

There are only two nations (of 10) that are inactive, so I can eject them without problem.... after that, the rest of the nations will leave, I will pass-protect the region and then re-built it.

Just one more question:
Can a MOD be a "supervising" of the process? (just to avoid an invader to take control of the region before the natives)

Thanks again

Can a MOD be a "supervising" of the process? (just to avoid an invader to take control of the region before the natives)
Nobody 'owns' a founderless region name, not even the existing natives. Operational Security is your lookout, not ours. We'll delete a griefer and his refounder, but a legitimate refounding leaves the region wide open. Plan accordingly.

Hang on -- way back in the first post it said you had already ejected the last native possible without it being a griefing...

http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=9711910&postcount=1

"You've just ejected the last possible nation you can legally eject. As Delegate, you do NOT have the right to slowly empty the region via ejection, REGARDLESS of what may have been decided on your offsite forums. If you want this region refounded, ALL remaining nations must exit the region VOLUNTARILY, without being ejected. Failure to observe this rule will result in your deletion, possibly with the additional deletion of your endorsers and your other nations."
and in http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=9722086&postcount=8

After discussion, the official decision is: No. You cannot move natives back into the region jsut so that you can eject more inactives.

Allowing such a thing requires us to spend even more time verifying or refuting the nativity of nations and we don't see the gain to the NationStates community to be worth the additional effort on our part. You must wait for the inactives to auto-delete.

You can put up a password so that noone else can get in, but that's it. Just be patient.

If one of the currently-inactive residents wakes up and decides to stay put, then you can't refound the region.

--The Modified Democratic States of Cogitation
NationStates Game Moderator

Am I missing something that allows you to now eject two more inactive nations?

Kat, that was "Hithra". "The-CID" climbed on the bandwagon with a different region, but same problem. Confusing, to say the least.

Ah, I see. Never mind.

Nobody 'owns' a founderless region name, not even the existing natives. Operational Security is your lookout, not ours. We'll delete a griefer and his refounder, but a legitimate refounding leaves the region wide open. Plan accordingly.

Got you; we will plan accordingly!!
Thanks for your quick response!
See you!

I only wish that our region had only two inactive nations *sigh*, though in 21 more days the last inactive nation will be deleted! Unless one gets on.... then we can only hope that he checks his telegrams by some miracle....doubtfully! lol. Three weeks till the process will be complete.....Ahhh so long!